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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 12:21 |
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I heard about a good show on TV today.......
Tonights Panorama investigates the churches claims that condoms do not protect against HIV. Cardinal Trujilio has a report on the matter which will be discussed.
They then go to Uganda where the Catholic church is promoting the abolishing of the use and distribution of condoms to return the people to a state of abstinence outside marriage.
Is that even possible in todays society??
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BlackBeauty
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 12:32 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote:
Is that even possible in todays society??
dont know about Uganda, but definitely not possible over here...
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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 12:45 |
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I saw another thing BB about these 'silver rings'. Apparently they are handed out to youngsters in the US who were them to show their virgin status as a source of pride. It is a visible display and supposed to be a mental deterrent to pre marital sex. The idea is gaining popularity here too (according to Richard & Judy).
It would be perhaps hypocritial of me to champion chastity and so on but I do think it is a positive move and something has to be done to stop the rise of HIV and other stds...
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BlackBeauty
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 12:55 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: I saw another thing BB about these 'silver rings'. Apparently they are handed out to youngsters in the US who were them to show their virgin status as a source of pride. It is a visible display and supposed to be a mental deterrent to pre marital sex. The idea is gaining popularity here too (according to Richard & Judy).
It would be perhaps hypocritial of me to champion chastity and so on but I do think it is a positive move and something has to be done to stop the rise of HIV and other stds...
I understand what u r saying...but by making young ppl wear those rings display their ''sexual status'' isnt that still making them/forcing them to focus on sex??
And what does it truly mean?? Do they have to be checked (by they i mean girls) b4 they r assigned their rings, to make sure they r virgins-cause otherwise how would u really know??-Remember Britney Spears went on and on for ages about remaining a virgin until she was married and all the while she had/was bedding Justin.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 13:01 |
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| I think its more to do with abstinence, I don't think they have to certified virgins b4 getting a ring but while wearing ring the encouraged to abstain and b like those california girls who are 'born again virigins'
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LadyDay
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 14:01 |
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if you are allergic to condoms like peanuts they may can kill you. my friend is allergic to laytex so has to get non laytex condoms which is not easy to find for some reason.
as for the silver ring thing. i saw a documentary on it. very interesting. it is one of the campaigns that us president Bush is pushing in the states especially in texas his own backyard. it has worked for some and not for otehrs. there are still teen pregnancies as sex education is forbidden is some parts of texas and funding is only given for abstinence. aswell as the silver ring thing there is true love waits. they seem to be based on bible principles of no sex before marriage and the youth take a vow on this. also it is said to be spreading and memeber numbers are constantly growing. some youth who were sexually active have taken vows to stop and wait until marriage so no one is alienated
it can work but depends on how it is done.
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BlackBeauty
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 15:04 |
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LadyDay wrote: if you are allergic to condoms like peanuts they may can kill you. my friend is allergic to laytex so has to get non laytex condoms which is not easy to find for some reason.
as for the silver ring thing. i saw a documentary on it. very interesting. it is one of the campaigns that us president Bush is pushing in the states especially in texas his own backyard. it has worked for some and not for otehrs. there are still teen pregnancies as sex education is forbidden is some parts of texas and funding is only given for abstinence. aswell as the silver ring thing there is true love waits. they seem to be based on bible principles of no sex before marriage and the youth take a vow on this. also it is said to be spreading and memeber numbers are constantly growing. some youth who were sexually active have taken vows to stop and wait until marriage so no one is alienated
it can work but depends on how it is done.
I prefer that method than the ring thing.
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Swiftsinger
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 15:49 |
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OFF TOPIC:
Why BlackBeauty do you type your comments in that hard to read pink color?
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fazuan
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 17:48 |
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Swiftsinger wrote: OFF TOPIC:
Why BlackBeauty do you type your comments in that hard to read pink color?
I have wondered as well, I just never read it, hurts my eyes!
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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 17:52 |
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ROTF LMAO You see BB its not just me that says so
  
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name
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 18:03 |
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BlackBeauty......I've always wanted to know also. Why do you write in that hard to read pink?
It's hard to read dontcha y'know......
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fazuan
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 18:11 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: I saw another thing BB about these 'silver rings'. Apparently they are handed out to youngsters in the US who were them to show their virgin status as a source of pride. It is a visible display and supposed to be a mental deterrent to pre marital sex. The idea is gaining popularity here too (according to Richard & Judy).
It would be perhaps hypocritial of me to champion chastity and so on but I do think it is a positive move and something has to be done to stop the rise of HIV and other stds...
I agree with this 100%, apart from stoping the rise of HIV, it also might help in restoring the former glory of sex, instead of the degradation, power struggle, and spiteful activity it's become today. and hopefully a new society where double standards are forever removed, where both male and female appreciate the need to abstain from sex until they find that special person and not do it as a need for conquests. Hmm in my ideal world!! LOL
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name
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 20:28 |
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fazuan, sounds idealistic, but it also sounds kinda nice.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 20:36 |
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I reckon that as a society we aren't scared enough. All the info we recieve is too sanitised. I read about the diseases from posters in the gum clinic, and I think they aren't graphic enough. We need to be shown picture of people dying of AIDS we need pictures not descriptions of the symtoms of diseases. People need to fear sex!!. We need to show that it does not pay to have unprotected and casual sex. Its a destructive lifestyle.
To many people in the west can not identify with the pictures they see of people suffering overseas. The sight of starving children in Africa has lost its shock value... people are not moved to do something, they just turn the TV channel. When people see AIDS sufferers in Johanesburg they can't relate to them, we need to show them AIDS sufferers here to show them that the danger is just as real for them. Like those recent anti smoking ads... If they showed genital warts intead of describing them or showed rashes and scabs and lesions... they could even lie and scare us, the ends justify the means. We need to fear sex.
Some of you will be thinking but sex is a wonderful thing and its not all nasty... True but human instinct will make sure we still desire sex, we will just be scared into being carefull.
Im really looking forward to this program now.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 22:24 |
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The cardinal says
Using a condom to solves the AIDS crisis is like throwing a petrol on a fire to put it out because the petrol encourages the fire
very interesting
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday June 27th, 2004 23:17 |
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I watched this programme and I have to say I was almost speechless, a woman considers it a Sin to use a condom with her husband who she knows to be AIDs infected..
'I might not go to heaven' she says....Sorry but her husband and the church cardinal who maintain this nonsense ought to be strung up by their balls..
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The Watcher
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 00:00 |
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It was a good show, well put together.
It was even more shocking Kunjufu when the cardinal of Uganda said that yes the church may be making a mistake but so what? sometimes we make mistakes...
The Ugandan goverments approach is now being seen as the model for the rest of Africa, the abc program works quite well over there, it has dramatically slowed the spread of AIDS what do you think of its chances here?
a abstain No sex before marriage
b be faithful to your spouse
c If A and B are too hard then wear a condom
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 00:03 |
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| Drunkmoney: I think the A.B.C. approach has no chance in the UK, Similarly the Silver Ring thing.. Project no chance.. with all the preoccupation there is with relationships and sex they don't have a hope in hell..
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The Watcher
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 00:09 |
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HMMMMM sad but true I suppose,
The media (stop rolling your eyes!) has a lot to answer for here. Advertisers know that 'sex sells' and so consequently we are bombarded with it from a early age. What is the purpose of page 3?
Our own stars croon and sing about sex and fatasys and our films are full of it but then we buy it and watch it so its market forces.......but who is driving the market? Are we demanding sex or are they pushing it on us?
In Uganda those people are exactly the same as us but they don't quite have the monstrosity of a media that we have here. Are they more or les preoccupied with sex than us? hmmmm
Im not sure about this but something MUST be different here for you to say it wouldn't work.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 00:16 |
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Drunkmonkey: what is different is the level of education (this btw is not meant to be rude), but in parts of Africa, South east Asia and the America's. The Catholic Church can in effect get away with preachin abstinance as the preacher in Uganda did without public scrutinty. I mean can you imagine a preacher telling people in the west not to 'hold hands' or to avoid all physical contact as he did.. and still be considered sane..?
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The Watcher
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 00:23 |
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It wasn't rude I accept truth when I see it (and Ive seen it LOL)
I think what that preacher intended was to scare people out of sex, something I advocated earlier. By saying that they should not even hold hands it drives ex further into the realms of what is forbidden. They may be prepared to defy the preacher and sneak off for a kiss perhaps but to have sex itself? I think they were suitably scared out of it.....
In that respect I must agree, that sort of tactic would NEVER work in the UK.
It was a bit extreme when he made everyone renounce their boyf/girlf before God!!
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 00:26 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote:
It was a bit extreme when he made everyone renounce their boyf/girlf before God!!
This was not just extreme it was blatantly out of order, I was totally shocked.
Last edited on Monday June 28th, 2004 00:26 by Kunjufu
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Talkalot
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 02:51 |
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I did not see any of those programs of which you speak. However, from what I have read the A.B.C / Silver Ring approach seems to me as a way forward. All around us there is evidence of decay of values within our society. We need stabilizing guidelines. We need ideas to work toward. We need a return to the source of true values.
This approach takes us back to that original source of true values, is the only way to stop the spread of AIDS and unwanted pregnancies. If you think such solutions are too difficult, don't expect the problems to be solved by easy substitutes. I agree that such approach would indeed be challenging here in the UK. It is within society's power to apply these remedies, though apparently it is not within our will to do so. This generation brooks no restrains on its freedoms, including its freedom to do wrong and suffer the consequences.
Whatever happen to self-restraint ? Most people are horrified by the results of our sexually permissive era. Yet many continue to hold sacred the importance of indulging sexual appetites to the fullest....We are expected to diet, to exercise, to stop smoking, to be self-disciplined about the way we live for the sake of our health. Only sexual gratification seems to have been granted a sacrosanct status for continued limitless indulgence. It is not that we cannot apply the A.B.C values, it is that we will not. So society sows and reaps.
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Miss Brighter Days
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 11:24 |
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I watched some, but not all of this programme.
I thought it was interesting. The church have got it the wrong, in denouncing condoms, i like that ABC approach, because at least it acknowledges, many people iwll not abstain, so although absitnence is the best protection, if you can't abstain, then protect your self.
I agree with DM, people need to be shocked a bit more, especially teenagers of today, we grew up with a strong safe sex message. But today its like a cliche which young people are ignoring.
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fazuan
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 14:01 |
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Kunjufu wrote: I watched this programme and I have to say I was almost speechless, a woman considers it a Sin to use a condom with her husband who she knows to be AIDs infected..
'I might not go to heaven' she says....Sorry but her husband and the church cardinal who maintain this nonsense ought to be strung up by their balls..
that is a total nonsense!! I would run 30,000 miles away from a man that was infected, in this situation love is not enough
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Monday June 28th, 2004 15:58 |
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