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| Moderated by: Saida.M, safetyblitz, Raven, Miss Brighter Days, LadyDay, Kunjufu, Kibibi, Happiness, Dillinger, Breadfruit, Backatya |
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Sunday June 17th, 2007 22:55 |
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Dada wrote: The vast majority of Carribean immigration in the 50s and 60s was from rural/non business owning/ largely formally uneducated classes who had very little immediate experinece in business.
BT
Therein lies the rub. This is one of the most important points in regards to how the Black community has been percieved and the divisions within us.
Had it of been the African middle classes who came over ,pre African independance, who studied at Oxbridge and other Universities and had stayed in the U.K instead of returning to their homelands, the picture of Black people in the U.K would have been modelled on different criteria.
But wasnt it those same middle class who went back to Africa with Oxbridge in their head and start robbing their people blind. I wasnt aware that there was any appreciable African middle class under colonialism. Again I still think they would of struggled because they certainly were not the business class but more elitist bureocrats for the colonial system.
With the Caribbean influx came also the all the problematic symtoms of the slavery era, in regards to Shadism, or the idea of Class, attitudes and expectations. Where within the African (contentient) Classs is very firmly acknowledged and appreciated, education is very important ( it is in J.A but better appreciated at the time in upper middle class circles in Africa).
I also think that the Carribean carried less fear of bucking the system in the UK and from their history had the tools to deal with the overt racism that many faced coming here. The colonial mindset and aping of European customs/names /culture brings its own problems. But Ill acknoweldeg that during my time in the school system continental Africans were more focused towards studying.
This has lead to the twining of Class and Race within the African-Caribbean community in the U.K to the point of social "advancement" has been labelled "selling out of ones race" virutally putting the breaks on black people reaching positions of infulence within the U.K other than through British systems of Bureaucracy (Local government or Quangos). I disagree. Look at the areas in which black people have settled ( or been herded into) and see how much social advancement has happened before. Within London areas such as Peckham/ Walworth/ Battersea/ Stepney/ Tottenham/ have been poor for generations. Since Victorian times and before. Areas full of street gangs/ urchins/ and cut-throats/ much the same as today. These white people from these areas make up the bulk of Kent /Essex today. Chav cities. What is stopping social advanement in the Uk is a lack of common culture and aims. Plenty black people in this country make serious money in the city and within the system. Being so fragmented however means that this is mostly an individual effort and a by product of survival.i.e some get by and some flourish. Social advancement means different things to diffrenet people. For most of the youth I would say it represents the ability to buy more 'bling'. For 30+ parents it would mean more opportunities for their children and quality of schooling/ enivironment. For a few it might mean controlling the means of survival/ much like a subsistance farmer of old. No common culture means social advancement by a 1000 different ways for different ends. To as many different people.
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safetyblitz
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| Joined: | Thursday January 20th, 2005 |
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Posted: Sunday June 17th, 2007 23:52 |
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@ K
I think that mainly we react first and then think about what we have done later. It does not have anything to do with race. A lot of times we are the ones who are provoked, so we react. Sometimes in rage, sometimes in fear.
Then there are our other brothers and sisters who simply try to take advantage of the laws that have been set in place for us.
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Monday June 18th, 2007 00:19 |
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Tukoma
From my experiences black people on a whole do not take heroin or coke as much as the white people.
No Shakac. But the crack was invented for the black. either way its not the type of business to build healthy and safe communities around. Cant exectly ( although many do ) pass it on to your son with pride. Dont get me wrong. Cigarette manufacture alone is the biggest drug crime going. Seeing as Nicotine is actually added to the product. But its 'legal' stuatus it doesnt carry the same madness around with it. Herion and coke/crack trade breed mad conditions for black people. With the addicts come the prostitutes. Late night drink shops. General low life. Hackney comes to mind. Thornton Heath is a prototype area in transition.
It is also from my experiences the man juggling is more likely to help with hard cash when money is needed to help with drinks and food at funerals where the family in question has little or no money to give the deceased a good send off.
He may well do that little more/ but how many juggling man you know build /buy/ their big gated yard/ fat ride and all the latest babylon gadgets and open up a school. Or can create safe employment (not no cowboy living) for youths coming up. The man juggling is all good to be indirectly involved in the death too. Giving your bredren a good send off because you got him involved in madness in the first place is madness and mostly an exercise in guilt and showmanship.
When was the last time you saw a working person give away their money???
I think your confusing showmanship with really giving away money. The same money mister juggler gave away to his bredrens funeral is the same money he pissed up the wall in the dance last night. The same money he spend on Prada Jeans in a month. Or a set of rims.
With reference to the original post I would agree that black people are sometimes too ignorant for their own good. When dealing with the whiteman you have to play and beat them at their own game by employing the same tact.
Im tired of playing their games. Its much more fulfulling and healthy for the mind to beat them on your terms and employ an unpredictable tact. You wanna shout at me? I tell you calmly about yourself and then write my letter. Stop me from learning. Ill leave and find somewhere else and not waste my time playing games especially if time is precious. White customer/client insulting your ethnicity? Tell that about his bloodclart. Armed with facts/ historical knowledge etc. just like Lady Vee in her example. But playing their game to me implies using their tactics. Its not us to be sneaky/ underhand and two faced on a whole so why bother. Play to your strengths.
The fact is only a few naturally can survive the rigours of working life under white employment. The constant spotlight for mistakes/ the ever present pressure of not being able to make mistakes even when learning/ either makes you or breaks you. I see alot of white graduates etc within my trade not having the tools to make money or without genuine ability but because of being a member of "the club" go thru. You hear so and so heading this divison for some major company and you think "how?". Playing the white man at his own game is a double edged sword and means that you take on his rules of engagement/ his values/ and can often result in the coconut who is a pysdo white man in the working environment/ and loses their ability to enage the white man on their own terms. Ive often been concious of this within myself/ and only last week was educating my boss about the so called Carribean laid back attitude he talked about/ and the fact that the British got rich off Carribean possessions. " oh I dont know anything about history".. Ive got past the stage of it being expressed angrily/ or paying blind indiffrence which is the course of many. This is what I talk about keeping a healthy mind. And knowing and dealing at source when these subtle tactics concious or unconciously are used to undermine black people in the workplace.
Watch out for my book. Im gonna take this sh*t to Oprah and tell the masses.
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