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stick-upKid
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 13:16 |
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The topic is so broad, where do you start?
I haven't got the answers, but I'd hate to think that child rearing has become a game of luck, rather than skill and perseverance and fortitude.
Of course I mean no disrespect to any parent here because your experience far outshines my ability to talk sh*t. But still, surely we have to believe that WE have the power to shape the future of OUR children? Otherwise, what's the point?
I mean Vezz, if you think children don't belong here, have you considered schooling your child for a few years in the carribbean or africa? It sounds far-fetched but other people do it. And it could have a profound effect on your child.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 13:41 |
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Happiness: Two points of clarification…. The first is really to say that for me the issue isn’t one of blaming the ‘rap’ culture per se that is just too easy, I think its much wider than that. I feel that the pervasive cult of celebritism (if there is such a word) is a significant problem.. Prince Charles put his finger on the issue when he criticized a former PA in a tribunal. He said something to the effect that everyone wants to be a star/celebrity without doing the work or having the ability to be one…and I think in the UK at least this is one of the fundamental problems with young people.
When I step back and look at things the West appears to promote Anomie ie I’ll get what I want at any costs regardless of morality, the other is the fact that hard work, Endeavour and intelligence aren’t celebrated in the West anymore nor is it promoted, it is only recently that schools have reintroduced merits in school for HARD work.. For reasons best known only to god, some idiot stopped this in schools.
if you look at things on a wider scale, sexuality, violence and weaponary are the currency of the day, to get three things MONEY, RESPECT & POWER.. And that message comes from the top downwards…. If you’ve got a consistent situation whereby our monarch and politician can bareface lie, refuse to take responsibility for their mistakes and if you like declare war on bullsh*t evidence… Is it any wonder that children follow that lead and act the way they do?… I cite the De menze for example, if an innocent man can get shot 7 time in the head by the police and yet no one is to blame, what message would that send to a young observer?
What I also see in many children that I know and have been around recently is that they EXPECT without ever wanting to work for that expectation. They see the big life pushed in their face, but they don’t have the ability or the means to attain it legally… Lets be honest here to have the house, the flash car and the bling..one would need to earn in excess of 35k at least…. There is no job I know that as a 16/17 year you can walk into with that salary, especially without a degree behind you… In the Uk at least, even with a degree you need to be working for say 5-8 year to get any where near that salary..
Yet I personally know of cases for example where boys have had a friends help to get in on the ground floor, they have basically abused that job and then dropped the employment at the first sign of problem or when it didn’t suit them without a second thought… They are not as you might then expect in a ‘better’ job, but effectively doing nothing or worse smoking dope..no ambition, not drive to do better unless its playing at ‘rapper’ WTF..
So whose fault is this, yes one can blame the parents, but in the cases I am citing I know the parent gave them the best, pushed them and instilled the work ethic..However if that is not reflected in the wider society, which it is not imo, and not promoted as a virtue.. Then this is where we have the conflict between parents and children, and where children then tend to move with their peers whom are in the same mindset,
When I look at the Media for instance, what is the message that comes across in strongly, if you can half sing, rap you’re goodlooking, scantily clad with an attitude..the world loves you and thing else is considered a loser…. I only have look at the turn out for shows like Pop idol, and the types of people who apply and their reaction when they fail to see how deep this cultural belief is… If I switch to Music video’s and not just rap videos I might add..what is the message..if I can spit/sing a little.. Then I will be feted as a star, get the girl/boy and the bling.. 50 pences’ anthem of ‘get rich or die trying’ did not unfortunately fall on deaf ears..
Even if I move away from music and look at Acting for example how many singers, actors are rewarded for stripping off, as opposed to their actual ability to perform….I can cite for example Halle Berry…who really wasn’t recognized as an actress until she did Monsters ball a role where she basically stripped bare and got gang banged…in the UK at the moment dippy women who are prepared to strip for for the camera’s are the ones the media loves…and the messages is clear if you have boobs and body you will earn millions….I can cite Jade Goody, Danielle Lloyd, Sarah Hardy, Kate moss.. and two of the cases I have cite it really doesn’t matter what you do it seems big business will love you anyway…
So the difficulty with the children as I see it as a parent and professional observer in the UK is this, concentrating on Girls for example, they are clearly emulating this lazy way of talking, they clearly expect that the world should understand them, rather than making an effort to make themselves adaptable. Unless as parent you make the effort to expose your children to a wider side of life.. Many children appear to believe that life begins and end with their peer group and surroundings. My children for example can remember the word verbatim of ANY R&B tune, but I ask them to remember anything else not a chance… The early sexualisation of children in the UK is definitely driving down the ages where girls become sexually active, I think the average age is 13/14 now.. and like it or not Sex is clear a currency used by many to form emotional attachments and to get on in life, this is a sad fact for those girls without either self esteem or the means get what they need educationally, which one of the factors driving teenage pregnancy in the Uk.. which I might add the highest in Europe bar none.
Because imo the media drives this agenda of not being complete with a man, many girls I am aware of see this as their primary ambition to detriment of all else… and as Vezz state in some cases some use their knowledge of legislation to circumvent their parents authority, when boundaries are placed on their behaviour, again for example I can cite that it is now becoming more common, for young girls to leave home, and get either their parents or friends to write a letter stating they have been thrown out by their parents.. They then get a place in a hostel on the state, money from social services and of course freedom to do what they want without parental control, all at expense of the state…
So the difficulty is this as a parent, as Vezz articulated, in one hand people like Tony Blair openly criticizes Black parents..But as a Black parent in the UK, your ability to instill boundaries is constantly undermined by the state, the threshold for being referred to Social services for abuse is low, and can I saw abuse is not characterized by just physical or sexual abuse, they also encompass Emotional and parenting skills too… Your role is further eroded by the constant messages outside of the home that contradicts your morals and culture.. imo given this constant bombardment you really need to immerse your child like the jews in the culrual and moral imperative that one thinks is important..the difficulty is that after 9/11…this is now seen as subversive and divisive, the problem however is as far as I can see the current alternative is socially cancerous…
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Melissa
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 15:11 |
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stick-upKid wrote: The topic is so broad, where do you start?
I haven't got the answers, but I'd hate to think that child rearing has become a game of luck, rather than skill and perseverance and fortitude.
Of course I mean no disrespect to any parent here because your experience far outshines my ability to talk sh*t. But still, surely we have to believe that WE have the power to shape the future of OUR children? Otherwise, what's the point?
Exactly my thoughts, and no doubt the thoughts of all the parents now that all this knife crime is rife.
I think about my son getting caught up in it every day, but more as a 'wrong place, wrong time' victim then a gang member or perpertrator. But if it can happen to someone elses son, brought up well and then all of a sudden fall vicitm to the lure of the streets, i can't pretend it can't happen to me too. I don't want to have a false sense of security. But the point is the childs life is in the parents hands from birth, so you have to persevere regardless and unconditonally, I think too many parents just let go at the first sign of trouble.
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Vezz.
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 15:42 |
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Mez,
There have been countless crimes committed by immigrants from war torn countries...you cannot deny that is true. I am not saying it is them entirely but they certainly have made their mark.
Whilst I agree that these gangs were created as, maybe, protection against "home-growns", they seem to have been assimilated into this society pretty quickly!
I don't think I'm guilty of using immigrants as a scapegoat....I'm just saying that they are a factor, imho, especially as they have received no help in coming to terms with what they have experienced.
Stick-up Kid,
It would be easy to send my child back home, only for him to come back here and create havoc anyway! My point is, for some children the lure of the street is too strong, and no amount of tough love can overcome it.
Melissa,
Of the parents I know that have experienced loss to this type of crime, not one I can say gave up too easily...indeed, many even sent their child home to escape. Kunjufu practically disowned his daughter for her to finally see sense - and there is the problem. As you know, parenting is a difficult job, but when faced with so many obstacles it's becoming an uphill struggle.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 17:23 |
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stick-upKid wrote: The topic is so broad, where do you start?
I haven't got the answers, but I'd hate to think that child rearing has become a game of luck, rather than skill and perseverance and fortitude.
Of course I mean no disrespect to any parent here because your experience far outshines my ability to talk sh*t. But still, surely we have to believe that WE have the power to shape the future of OUR children? Otherwise, what's the point?
I mean Vezz, if you think children don't belong here, have you considered schooling your child for a few years in the carribbean or africa? It sounds far-fetched but other people do it. And it could have a profound effect on your child.
Stick Up: I'm not sure if you have children or not...but as a prent i can tell you that the central role of a prent is to prepare your child for life best you can and then gradually let go.... the key bit is that the letting go process start from the moment you put them in the care of someone else.....
It is no coincidence that black children do well educationally up to the age of 5, but then decline once they enter the school system, the reason are clear up until that age parents have almost total control of their child...however once you start to send them to nursery, to primary school to secondary school, college and the rest you are beginning the letting go process....at each stage you lose more and more control on the influences on your child's life...
So i suspect like anyother parent you hope and you pray that what influence you've had during each stage of the letting go process will be remembered retained or will be strong enough to overide the negatives they will almost certainly face outside of your influence...THATS the issue..
Unfortunately some people are more predisposed to suggestion than others, some people develop at different rates and as such can be influenced badly before they learn the error of their ways.... However i would say the key bit is that when a black child makes a mistake at whatever stage of the letting go process, the penalty is heavier than their white peers...so for example being expelled from school, then means less education, an inability to pass exams due to lack of school time, and this snowbals to other social and possible criminal issue...
if for example at 18 you leave school without the ability to read or write (true story coming up), the question is how do you seriously form asattachments to your peers to women, etc etc..how you get the into bling culture without the means to do it legitimately? The young man i saw almost 4 years ago who was exactly like this, was expelled from school at an early age and virtually forgotten about, his mother clear did not have the ability teac h him or to fight effectively for her son... So unsurprisingly the only way he could now be part of the boys was to steal and run with the pack...what other choices did he have..he wasn't a bad lad, he wasn't hard ears....he did what did to get by and this a part of the issue....that i believe we are seeing today..
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 18:47 |
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Man this is the Kunjufu of old
Whoever said this subject is broad, right on! - yet there'll still be those voicing opinions like a personal gripe. I was with Dwaines dad on sunday with the fraternity of support trying to make sense of it all. When it came to reasons everything you could think of came to the fore. From wotliss mums, wotlis dads, rap, ragga, r&b, mtv, coming from a house and dating someone who grew up in flats, growing up with two parents and dating someone who grew up with one, the system, slavery, babylon you name it.....and in all cases someone could give examples where the opposite was also true.
One thing for certain is this phase I mentioned is starting at least five years earlier than it did when I was a teen. This ties in with other comments relating to the earlier ages adverse influences takes a hold.
I still say the stronger the foundation i.e. the more parents/guardians, the better the environment and the stronger the sense of pride and values then the better prepared you are in resisting these adverseties.
I also think the day we divide this as a boys are different from girls thing we are even more doomed. Only Saturday gone down West Ham I had to holla out of my car window to a sista 'Hey baby love, yu drawz a' show' ...where she then tried to shuffle off quickly pretending not to hear only for me to tail her shouting 'Baby!, yu drawz, yu drawz baby, dem outa road!' - why would any woman want to express themselves this way. Some of our boys, it's like they are on some kind of death wish looking to go out like Tupac or Biggie Smalls.
Kunjufu hit the nail on the head. The times we live in now, from the top down, people are trying to use morals to justify imorality, the consequences are here for everyone to see.
Last edited on Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 18:50 by Incognito
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MyThoughts
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 19:01 |
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Parents do not shape the future of their children, not anymore. The environment does that now. People are plugged into the machine world, not just the music (the exploitation of hip hop), but the videos, the console games, magazines, books.
A world where it shows only one image of black people and for most people seeing is believing.
Kids only have this point of reference to aspire to. The same image for the violent black male is part of the same image for the over sexualised black female and we are seeing the after-effects of years of brain-washing.
These images are proving to be dangerous for young individuals whose mind are still developing and are very easy to shape and mould. As much as parents say they censor what is exposed to the kids in house, what goes on outside is totally different.
Plus the fact even in two parent households the financial squeeze is such that one parent cannot maintain a household for the other to rear the youngsters, so both are systematically out of the way for the machine world to raise MOST inner city kids.
Not to mention that everyone is now desensitized. Death and pregnancy especially does not have that same shock value anymore. An 11 year old pregnancy does not shock the girl peers, they see that as normal. And we see how death no longer causes a shock value amongst the youths. And when life and such things in life appear so cheap you have the situation we have now. Seen as no biggy.
Environments not only raise kids but it stops them making informed choices. Model son or not, you have groups of guys threatening with a beat down or possible death by not joining. Others are joining because of that very fact; safety in numbers. There are only a few true "bad man" walking on road, the rest are getting sucked in peer pressure, people you grew up with etc. Your environment making choices for you.
But then there comes a time when you have to prove your worth surely.
"Now tell me what the phluck am I supposed to do?"
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 19:05 |
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MyThoughts wrote:
Parents do not shape the future of their children, not anymore. The environment does that now. People are plugged into the machine world, not just the music (the exploitation of hip hop), but the videos, the console games, magazines, books.
A world where it shows only one image of black people and for most people seeing is believing.
Kids only have this point of reference to aspire to. The same image for the violent black male is part of the same image for the over sexualised black female and we are seeing the after-effects of years of brain-washing.
These images are proving to be dangerous for young individuals whose mind are still developing and are very easy to shape and mould. As much as parents say they censor what is exposed to the kids in house, what goes on outside is totally different.
Plus the fact even in two parent households the financial squeeze is such that one parent cannot maintain a household for the other to rear the youngsters, so both are systematically out of the way for the machine world to raise MOST inner city kids.
Not to mention that everyone is now desensitized. Death and pregnancy especially does not have that same shock value anymore. An 11 year old pregnancy does not shock the girl peers, they see that as normal. And we see how death no longer causes a shock value amongst the youths. And when life and such things in life appear so cheap you have the situation we have now. Seen as no biggy.
Environments not only raise kids but it stops them making informed choices. Model son or not, you have groups of guys threatening with a beat down or possible death by not joining. Others are joining because of that very fact; safety in numbers. There are only a few true "bad man" walking on road, the rest are getting sucked in peer pressure, people you grew up with etc. Your environment making choices for you.
But then there comes a time when you have to prove your worth surely.
"Now tell me what the phluck am I supposed to do?"
My thought....you hit the nail on the head...
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 19:59 |
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My Thoughts - spot on with the one or two bad man and spot on with the safety in numbers and likewise with any solution, it will only be effective if enough practise it.
While I was with the brotherhood, a key word surfaced, values, and more to the point the children do not feel valued. What we need to understand is what this really means in that people make the big mistake in thinking you can replace values with love. When you preach to your children about morals and values and they discover you yourself are a hypocrite to those values or even worse told them blatant lies and in defence you adopt a do what I say not what I do/done approach, then you are treading on potentially seriously dodgy grounds....this is fuel to a rebellious youth!
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MyThoughts
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 21:31 |
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People are still morally bound to the ones that they care about in their own circle. It's like people throughout this thread talking about youths who are well-mannered, respect for elders etc. But out on the streets that respectful well-mannered person does not hold water.
They living the morals and values that the streets grew in them, you got to be hard or at least appear hard or you'll get eaten up.
Thinking about it what is morals and values anyway? Without going into the philosophy behind it. There is no consistent guide from a black community standpoint.
The thing is morals, values and principles are just too subjective. You will have youths killing next man telling you it was a matter of core values. But then I guess it's all about interpretation.
Also a sidepoint when these boys are not even fearing lockdown no more then what is going to stop the spate of killings.
IMHO I think what is going on at the moment is a cry for help.
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 22:26 |
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Mythoughts - when one has to asked what are morals and values then you know things must be truly f**ked up!
Maybe ask Beenie Man?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7lBPItzs2w&mode=related&search=
..but definitely a cry for help...which may indicate deep down they know they are morally wrong.
Last edited on Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 22:29 by Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 22:39 |
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On the morality flex, I know nuff man who didn't grow with their dads...some see that as 'normal', others vowed to never put their own children through that and I know of both types who have lost children to this madness.
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MyThoughts
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 01:36 |
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@incognito
Not asking what morals are per se, just that it is and has become subjective and an ambiguous term.
Not that the world is f**ked up (well it is)...it's how it's always been, the only difference values and morals between then and now is that it was adhered to by all across the board in any single community.
Mentioning values and morals holds no water now IMO. Unless we dissect each case individually because I guarantee what is taught or understood no two will be the same. Those are just empty words. The youths are living in a different world that our parents lived in, even the younger parents of youths are in a different place.
Morals are just a guideline to right and wrong. Perception has a major affect on how we justify our actions. It only holds water if you are talking about in the highest place of theology where you'd die in order to be morally right and live that turn the other cheek nonsense.
The world changes so values and morals of years gone by change with the times and more importantly the environment. IMO right and wrong changes drastically over time and most actions can be justified, just depends on your side of the line.
A cry for help because they are boxed in, they see no way out, no paths, no avenues. Even to get into sports there are no play areas anymore and where there is you have to pay an arm and a leg to hire it out. Now you see a whole heap following the music trail which has seen that explosion yet most of them are affiliated to the same gangs that are up on road.
They look at their parents and see years of struggle with no reward. They look for inspiration, they hear 50 cent music, they see Get Rich or Die Tryin, they play Grand Theft San Andreas, they read about black getting all types of endorsements by playing a certain role. They follow suit...all they see is black people getting ahead through sex or violence.
Subconsciously perhaps they know it's wrong but their actions can be justified and deemed right in this environment depending on what side of the line you stand on. You don't see much remorse amongst the youths however perhaps given that in their model of their environment they are the less guilty ones.
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DarkCloud
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 01:56 |
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Mezmerized wrote: Vezz. wrote: We have youth being given asylum from war-torn countries...but no counselling. These youth have no fear of death, probably due to the horrors seen in their countries. Most of the stories here involve someone from abroad.
Err, Lady V....Your comments do not follow at all. There is no connection between the rise of youth delinquency and the arrival of new youths from so called "war torn" countries. Majority of these new arrival youths are actually the ones filling up the Universities and colleges....all they want is to move on with their lives and live in peace. Admitdely a FEW have been in the news, but funny enough you'll find that it's them who are the VICTIMS rather than the perpatrators.
I do not know how you came to this conclusion because 9 out of 10 recent stabbings involved "home-grown" teenagers running havoc with each other. I am not saying that the new arrivals are perfect, but by no means do they deserve to be mentioned here in regards to the kind of crimes and behaviour we are talking here.
I can understand a lot of black parents becoming exasperated at the conditions we are seeing a lot of our youths getting themselves into, but to blame the new arrivals is just an easy way out to make others scapegoats because we are at out wits end.
Are you not doing exactly what the white middle classes do? when all goes wrong, blame the immigrants....easy bet aren't we? Just because some of our countries have had wars, it doesn't mean we are vampires roaming the streets of London trying to innitiate your children into the bloody ways of life.
Out of countless gang murders in the past year, only ONE involved a "new arrival" boy....but i know of the familly and the boy literally grew up here and didn't even come from the fighting of parts of the Congo....he came here at 4 or 5 years old.......and most Somali gangs are made up just to protect themselves from the ignorants "home-grown" BLACK children who treats them worse than even the whites!
Honestly, leave imigrants out of this....something terribly wrong is going on here and i think i would tend to lean on with your second argument of the pressure and delusion of assimilation that most black youths are feeling from this society.
Anyway, i think Kunjufu's point about our communities losing touch with cultural norms which helped previous generations is paramount. Never underestimate the strengths of traditions and culture when it comes to keeping tab on our children.
On point mez
Vezz, I normally enjoy reading your posts. But right now, I am tempted to believe you share the same underlying prejudices as a lot of 'snotty protect our culture/heritage' white folks.
I mean, how did you even pull that into this equation? So the war stories being told by moonlight by kids from war torn countries is what galvanizes the youths today to get into the gangs and shoot up the place and stab anything insight leaving behind a trail of blood? For your information, stories being told by this class of people are more horror tales than the glorified violence most of your media perpetuates. Take time out and listen to one, before going off on a tangent looking for easy pickings.
I grew up with my father around, but I will tell you that at some point in my teenage years, I disconnected from him, not because he wasnt doing his best, but becasue, as I grew up, i realised he wasnt the 'superhero' I thot he was as a kid, and all his efforts to keep me on the straight and narrow (efforts i now appreciate) were met with rebellion, because I wanted more freedom than I needed at the time.
Basically, what I am trying to say is, there is a lot more to play here in terms of dynamics than a parent sitting down and monitoring a child (poor and lax parenting too cannot be excused either). I personally place the blame at the door step of society at large and media. I am not a parent, so I cant profer oout of the box solutions. But properly identifying the root causes without trying to shift the blame will be a good place to start.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 05:47 |
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Mez & darkcloud: Sorry to but in but actually i think you're doing Vezz a disservice because there is evidence in certain parts of london namingly north london kurds/eastern Europeans and Somalians Woolich that groups from war torn countries are bringing elements of that conflicts in those regions into the uk, I've personally heard Police commanders discuss this as an issue and collegues who work in the Greenwich area...I used to work in North London so I'm aware through personal experience of that dynamic, now how deep or rife that issue is I'm not entirely sure but I am sure that some of those tensions have been brought to the Uk....
I also remember reading about this in the Daily Mail, who was as usual doing one of its Anti johnny foriegner rants.. So I realise it might not make pleasant reading but its not fair to label Vezz in that way, when I know and had some knowledge of what she is talking about... I think a better starting point would be the nature and degree, not does it exist..because it does like it or not..
Ps..now that i think about it some more I also actually remember that now infamous Darcus Howe joke programme a while back, where he also highlighted that problem, only he also drew in the tension between Asians as well. ie Bangladeshi, P*kistan and I certainly remember him touching on Somalians too..just for more food for thought.
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Vezz.
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 06:02 |
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DarkCloud wrote: Mezmerized wrote: Vezz. wrote: We have youth being given asylum from war-torn countries...but no counselling. These youth have no fear of death, probably due to the horrors seen in their countries. Most of the stories here involve someone from abroad.
Err, Lady V....Your comments do not follow at all. There is no connection between the rise of youth delinquency and the arrival of new youths from so called "war torn" countries. Majority of these new arrival youths are actually the ones filling up the Universities and colleges....all they want is to move on with their lives and live in peace. Admitdely a FEW have been in the news, but funny enough you'll find that it's them who are the VICTIMS rather than the perpatrators.
I do not know how you came to this conclusion because 9 out of 10 recent stabbings involved "home-grown" teenagers running havoc with each other. I am not saying that the new arrivals are perfect, but by no means do they deserve to be mentioned here in regards to the kind of crimes and behaviour we are talking here.
I can understand a lot of black parents becoming exasperated at the conditions we are seeing a lot of our youths getting themselves into, but to blame the new arrivals is just an easy way out to make others scapegoats because we are at out wits end.
Are you not doing exactly what the white middle classes do? when all goes wrong, blame the immigrants....easy bet aren't we? Just because some of our countries have had wars, it doesn't mean we are vampires roaming the streets of London trying to innitiate your children into the bloody ways of life.
Out of countless gang murders in the past year, only ONE involved a "new arrival" boy....but i know of the familly and the boy literally grew up here and didn't even come from the fighting of parts of the Congo....he came here at 4 or 5 years old.......and most Somali gangs are made up just to protect themselves from the ignorants "home-grown" BLACK children who treats them worse than even the whites!
Honestly, leave imigrants out of this....something terribly wrong is going on here and i think i would tend to lean on with your second argument of the pressure and delusion of assimilation that most black youths are feeling from this society.
Anyway, i think Kunjufu's point about our communities losing touch with cultural norms which helped previous generations is paramount. Never underestimate the strengths of traditions and culture when it comes to keeping tab on our children.
On point mez
Vezz, I normally enjoy reading your posts. But right now, I am tempted to believe you share the same underlying prejudices as a lot of 'snotty protect our culture/heritage' white folks.
I mean, how did you even pull that into this equation? So the war stories being told by moonlight by kids from war torn countries is what galvanizes the youths today to get into the gangs and shoot up the place and stab anything insight leaving behind a trail of blood? For your information, stories being told by this class of people are more horror tales than the glorified violence most of your media perpetuates. Take time out and listen to one, before going off on a tangent looking for easy pickings.
I grew up with my father around, but I will tell you that at some point in my teenage years, I disconnected from him, not because he wasnt doing his best, but becasue, as I grew up, i realised he wasnt the 'superhero' I thot he was as a kid, and all his efforts to keep me on the straight and narrow (efforts i now appreciate) were met with rebellion, because I wanted more freedom than I needed at the time.
Basically, what I am trying to say is, there is a lot more to play here in terms of dynamics than a parent sitting down and monitoring a child (poor and lax parenting too cannot be excused either). I personally place the blame at the door step of society at large and media. I am not a parent, so I cant profer oout of the box solutions. But properly identifying the root causes without trying to shift the blame will be a good place to start.
DarkCloud,
I make no apologies for my opinion, just as, I suspect, you make no apologies for yours. If that means I'm a "snotty protect our children white folk" so be it....I won't lose sleep!
Walking the streets where I live I see youth from other countries hanging out. I hear them saying what I have mentioned. Not only that, in my son's old school there were immigrant children with similar tales. Or, as you suggest, a 6 year old is making this up?
If you read my posts you would know I wouldn't post something without going by my experiences, and I'm not influenced by media, so I think your comment is uncalled for.
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 06:23 |
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MyThoughts - an extremely valid and to the point post. The values of family have been eroded and replaced by money to the degree even if someone makes it big and gets the money, they don't know what to do with it.
Going back to Kunjufu's remark on the comment made by Prince Charles, which I believe I've been in denial of but in all honesty see many a truth in it...maybe the average mind simply hasn't the ability to resist the fast life - once the brain has been washed then it's a matter of learning life on the 'rocky' road acepting that not every one will make it through.
As far as morals are concerned all I know is without them we are left with one protocol - kill or be killed - it just seems sad that the immorality appears to be the starting point in defining what morality is as opposed to the other way round.
Last edited on Thursday May 24th, 2007 06:25 by Incognito
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 07:28 |
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There are some who would argue these punks on the street have their own morals, well Kill or be killed may well be a way of life but it is not a moral code of conduct. When we find ourselves warping the interpretation of morality then it's true sign that the damage has already been done and is now entering the realms of irreversibilty.
On the foreign influence debate, a big turning point was the influx of 'yardie' gangsters where the UK hoods had to follow suit in callousness to compete. Imagine you are a hard core criminal with no recognised UK identity, in the country illegally on a false passport and here to make drug money - you might as well call it a license to kill!
Last edited on Thursday May 24th, 2007 07:32 by Incognito
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 10:39 | | | |
