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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 17:30 |
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Fact or Fiction?
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babygirl44
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 17:47 |
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I admire your persistence but can you now please abort your mission to be this sites defender of white people as well as your constant attempts to paint black people as being as bad as whites in their racism. Its getting tired. Even if individual black people are racists, it doesn't matter because they don't have power. Its when you have power that racism becomes dangerous because then you can damage the lives of those races you hate. Black people have no power so if we want to call a bluefoot a bluefoot, it hurts nobody. However, if a white person in a senior position hated black people they could use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school.
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:00 |
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babygirl44 wrote: I admire your persistence but can you now please abort your mission to be this sites defender of white people as well as your constant attempts to paint black people as being as bad as whites in their racism. Its getting tired. Even if individual black people are racists, it doesn't matter because they don't have power. Its when you have power that racism becomes dangerous because then you can damage the lives of those races you hate. Black people have no power so if we want to call a bluefoot a bluefoot, it hurts nobody. However, if a white person in a senior position hated black people they could use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school.
Thanks for the admiration but try not to focus on me too much else you're in danger of breaking the BN rules. That being taking a subject matter off topic. Your virelent post partially displays this. If you cant do that then walk.
So back to the debate in hand.
Are you suggesting that racism can only be administered through power and if that is the case how would you define the word power?
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:02 by Le Moor
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Pele
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:11 |
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Fact: U need some sleep!
All humans have some racist in them.
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:13 by Pele
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:15 |
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Le Moor wrote:
Are you suggesting that racism can only be administered through power and if that is the case how would you define the word power?
To be fair Le Moor she gave you a definition already
"use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school."
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:22 |
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@ Pele.......Sleep is for wimps.
DM wrote :
To be fair Le Moor she gave you a definition already
"use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school."
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damage their childrens education?
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:34 by Le Moor
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:31 |
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Babygirl wrote:
Its when you have power that racism becomes dangerous because then you can damage the lives of those races you hate.
Is it possible to damage yourself. Isnt that another perception you havent thought of?
Black people have no power so if we want to call a bluefoot a bluefoot, it hurts nobody.
Is it ok for a chav to be racist then?
Amonst your post arent there a lot of assumptions going on here again.?
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:33 |
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Le Moor wrote: @ Pele.......Sleep is for wimps.
DM wrote :
To be fair Le Moor she gave you a definition already
"use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school."
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Less than 2% of population. Of that 2% what % do you imagine are in hire/fire positions? It's a matter of priorities. They could affect all of us without blinking... while we wouldn't affect a fraction of them.
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damaging their childrens education?
You're talking about random individual blacks in the context of an overall white system. They would be more likely to fire YOU than a white guy since they represent that very system.
Blacks have virtually no chance of affecting anything whites do in such a framework which is why I don't bother with things that try to affect them. I don't want to change their minds on anything, I don't want to educate them... nothing. Too much inertia and the focus is wrong.
Blacks can call whites names which may temporarily peeve them and hurt their feelings but in the reverse sense it is back by a system of oppression which continues and history of it altogether. It is a far deeper thing.
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babygirl44
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:43 |
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Le Moor wrote:
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damaging their childrens education?
Of course there are black people in positions of hiring and firing but they tend not to discriminate against white people for fear of not being promoted/damaging their prospects because remember, although you may have many very senior black execs out there, 99% of the ones working in large organisations are not the busineess owners, the owners are white people. Black people who own businesses normally own small businesses that cater to other black people like hairdressers, barbers, food shops so they will have other black people that work for them. White people don't want to/have no business being in those types of jobs so they can't be discrimiated there.
In addition I genuinely belive that no black business owner or senior person would use their power to prevent a white person from progressing. Its not in our mentality to behave that way, its white people who cannot bear to share power and who are so bad minded that they will put systems in place to prevent black people from achieving. Have you not noticed that when white people go to black countries, they are always treated very well, almost like they are kings? Look how black people are treated when they come to white people's countries. Using power to fulfil racist ambitions is the white man's way of working not the black man's.
Furthermore in my experience some black people in positions of authority will even discriminate against their OWN in favour of white people so that they look good in whiteys eyes. There was a bounty female black teacher in my secondary school who would blatantly treat the black kids more harshly then the white kids, does that make any sense? Must of being trying to catch the eye of the white headteacher so that she could be promoted to head of dept.
Finally I am not at all interest in whether one white child has their prospects damaged, I worry about the black boys I see roaming the streets without a future because they have been told time and time again that they are nothing and that the only part they played in the history of man was that of slaves.
For everything that black people have suffered on this earth i think calling a bluefoot and bluefoot is the least damaging thing that they deserve, don't you?
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:45 by babygirl44
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:48 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: Le Moor wrote: @ Pele.......Sleep is for wimps.
DM wrote :
To be fair Le Moor she gave you a definition already
"use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school."
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Less than 2% of population. Of that 2% what % do you imagine are in hire/fire positions? It's a matter of priorities. They could affect all of us without blinking... while we wouldn't affect a fraction of them.
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damaging their childrens education?
You're talking about random individual blacks in the context of an overall white system. They would be more likely to fire YOU than a white guy since they represent that very system.
Blacks have virtually no chance of affecting anything whites do in such a framework which is why I don't bother with things that try to affect them. I don't want to change their minds on anything, I don't want to educate them... nothing. Too much inertia and the focus is wrong.
Blacks can call whites names which may temporarily peeve them and hurt their feelings but in the reverse sense it is back by a system of oppression which continues and history of it altogether. It is a far deeper thing.
So what are you saying. That racism is only defined by power adminsitered through a system. Is that its definition or can a chav on the dole (who even white people despise) also be racist.
Are you also saying that it is possible for black people to be racist but only for 2% of black people. Therefore because only 2% of black people can be racist its not a big enough percentage to qualify ANY black person capable of being racist?
Can Africans in Africa be racist? or West indians in the Caribbean be racist?
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:54 by Le Moor
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:57 |
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Le Moor wrote:
So what are you saying. That racism is only defined by power adminsitered through a system. Is that its definition or can a chav on the dole (who even white people despise) also be racist.
A chav certainly can since he is the enforcer of the racism that the system itself overtly restricts itself from. They create him and place him in a position to feel as he does while giving him the psychological hints and misinformation to attack you and feel threatened by you. He is a creation of the system that makes a poor pretence at combating him. He is a part of the racist system Le Moor.
Are you also saying that it is possible but for black people to be racist but only for 2% of black people. Therefore because only 2% of black people can be racist its not a big enough percentage to qualify ANY black person capable of being racist? Nuh uh. Read stats again. No 2% of black people. But 2% of people are black. Big difference. Even if all of us 100% were racist, we couldn't affect the white people in this country. And far from 100% of us are or even close.
BTW black people can be prejudice, as in we can prejudge the nature of an individual like anybody else. But to act in a racist manner for me is about power. Power we don't have.
Can Africans in Africa be racist? or West indians in the Caribbean be racist? Even there I have yet to see Africans exerting power over white people in a meaningful way.
Even where they do, the people en masse do not have the resentment and hatred that seems to me to be natural in Europeans. We simply don't hate that much. Especially when surrounded by ourselves at home. Perhaps we don't hate enough...
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Backatya
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 20:14 |
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YES MOST DEFINITELY THEY CAN!
AGAINST OTHER BLACK PEOPLE!
Respect
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liberiangirl
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 20:26 |
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| With all due respect Backyata, I think the more appropriate terms would be 'bigotry' and 'colorism', not racism.
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 21:36 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: Le Moor wrote:
So what are you saying. That racism is only defined by power adminsitered through a system. Is that its definition or can a chav on the dole (who even white people despise) also be racist.
A chav certainly can since he is the enforcer of the racism that the system itself overtly restricts itself from. They create him and place him in a position to feel as he does while giving him the psychological hints and misinformation to attack you and feel threatened by you. He is a creation of the system that makes a poor pretence at combating him. He is a part of the racist system Le Moor.
So if one has no power, but is part of a racist system, they can be deemed racist. Therefore the reason black people canont be racist is because they do not belong to the race responsible for the racist system. Is that it?
Are you also saying that it is possible but for black people to be racist but only for 2% of black people. Therefore because only 2% of black people can be racist its not a big enough percentage to qualify ANY black person capable of being racist? Nuh uh. Read stats again. No 2% of black people. But 2% of people are black. Big difference. Even if all of us 100% were racist, we couldn't affect the white people in this country. And far from 100% of us are or even close.
BTW black people can be prejudice, as in we can prejudge the nature of an individual like anybody else. But to act in a racist manner for me is about power. Power we don't have.
Although the communication could have been clearer im aware of the stats. Is there a relevance though as all im trying to determine here is whether its possible for one singular black person to be racist or not?
Can Africans in Africa be racist? or West indians in the Caribbean be racist? Even there I have yet to see Africans exerting power over white people in a meaningful way.
So intially you said that racism is only administered through positions of power. You have acknowledged we are in power at home but now say that you see no eveidence of us exerting that power. So does racism have to be........
( 22.05 pm oh my god what a goal)
So does racism have to be recognised globally to qualify. In other words lets say an African person, who works in a small town in Botswana, discrimantes against his lowel graded colleage because he is not black. It will never reach the media as its just an everday life lead experience. Could he be racist or is there not enough power attributed to that indiviudaul. In others how exactly do you define power as i said earlier? To what degree does one qualify?
Even where they do, the people en masse do not have the resentment and hatred that seems to me to be natural in Europeans. We simply don't hate that much. Especially when surrounded by ourselves at home. Perhaps we don't hate enough...
Is hatred thats natural different to hatred thats induced through good reason? Or are they both hatred ?
Would you say that by using degortory terms gives good arguement to the perpetrator being filled with hatred, revenge you know all those negative, wasteful emotions? Or would you say its induced so its justified.?
Even where they do, the people en masse do not have the resentment and hatred that seems to me to be natural in Europeans. We simply don't hate that much. Especially when surrounded by ourselves at home. Perhaps we don't hate enough...
Are you talking now or pre holocaust? Is killing a good barometer of hatred and resentment or could it be passed off as some thing else?
When Maguabee was killing White farmers was he being racist? or could he not be racist as his actions were induced through good reason. Could he not be racist as his level of power isnt high enough to warrant the definiton of one being racist?
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 22:01 |
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babygirl44 wrote: Le Moor wrote:
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damaging their childrens education?
Of course there are black people in positions of hiring and firing but they tend not to discriminate against white people for fear of not being promoted/damaging their prospects because remember, although you may have many very senior black execs out there, 99% of the ones working in large organisations are not the busineess owners, the owners are white people. Black people who own businesses normally own small businesses that cater to other black people like hairdressers, barbers, food shops so they will have other black people that work for them. White people don't want to/have no business being in those types of jobs so they can't be discrimiated there.
So if just one Black Business in Britain, does qualify by employing whites, can they not be racist as generally we dont do that sort of thing. Is that what you are saying? Arent there any Black Businesses out there that employ white people or is it that you dont know of any?
In addition I genuinely belive that no black business owner or senior person would use their power to prevent a white person from progressing. Its not in our mentality to behave that way, its white people who cannot bear to share power and who are so bad minded that they will put systems in place to prevent black people from achieving.
Really. So because you dont believe its within our power to behave like this naturally, does that exclude the possibility of a black person ever been racist by its defintion?
Have you not noticed that when white people go to black countries, they are always treated very well, almost like they are kings? Look how black people are treated when they come to white people's countries. Using power to fulfil racist ambitions is the white man's way of working not the black man's.
So your reasoning as to why black people cannont be racist is beacuse normally we dont behave that way towards them. Is that it?
Furthermore in my experience some black people in positions of authority will even discriminate against their OWN in favour of white people so that they look good in whiteys eyes. There was a bounty female black teacher in my secondary school who would blatantly treat the black kids more harshly then the white kids, does that make any sense? Must of being trying to catch the eye of the white headteacher so that she could be promoted to head of dept.
How does this relate to my question of whether a black person can be racist or not?
Finally I am not at all interest in whether one white child has their prospects damaged, I worry about the black boys I see roaming the streets without a future because they have been told time and time again that they are nothing and that the only part they played in the history of man was that of slaves.
How does this relate to my question of whether a black person can be racist or not?
For everything that black people have suffered on this earth i think calling a bluefoot and bluefoot is the least damaging thing that they deserve, don't you?
No sorry i dont. I dont entertain that comparison that is. I like to think my view has more depth than that. However this thread is not directly about the Bluefoot ting, thats been concluded on another thread.
This has been inspired by the infamous words of Backatya in that thread where he claimed black people cannont be racist.
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 22:12 by Le Moor
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 22:12 |
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Le Moor wrote:
So if one has no power, but is part of a racist system, they can be deemed racist. Therefore the reason black people canont be racist is because they do not belong to the race responsible for the racist system. Is that it?
That's it 
Although the communication could have been clearer im aware of the stats. Is there a relevance though as all im trying to determine here is whether its possible for one singular black person to be racist or not?
Prejudice as I explained. Prejudging the nature of an individual yes. Racist no.
So does racism have to be recognised globally to qualify. In other words lets say an African person, who works in a small town in Botswana, discrimantes against his lowel graded colleage because he is not black. This does not happen. Have you been to Africa? They truly don't imagine whites TODAY can be racist so they aren't towards them. Africans on the continent are extremly naive when it comes to white people.
It will never reach the media as its just an everday life lead experience. Could he be racist or is there not enough power attributed to that indiviudaul. In others how exactly do you define power as i said earlier? To what degree does one qualify?
Locally, Globally etc At all levels Le Moor we are in no position to be racist.
Is hatred thats natural different to hatred thats induced through good reason? Or are they both hatred ?
Quantitavly and Qualitavly it's not in the same ball park.
Would you say that by using degortory terms gives good arguement to the perpetrator being filled with hatred, revenge you know all those negative, wasteful emotions? Or would you say its induced so its justified.?
You may or may not have read my response to this on the other thread. I say no different.
Are you talking now or pre holocaust?
NOW, as always we are too kind
Is killing a good barometer of hatred and resentment or could it be passed off as some thing else?
When Maguabee was killing White farmers was he being racist? or could he not be racist as his actions were induced through good reason. Could he not be racist as his level of power isnt high enough to warrant the definiton of one being racist?
When he was killing them? How many got killed? They got beaten up and sent packing for 20 years of wasting time and using international law to keep their hegemony of power in place, and for 100+ years of living on the fruits of theft. Their actions were keeping a nation down. They people reacted. The racism was the proaction of the whites, not that desperate reaction of the blacks. Mugabe personally was an oportunist exploiting a situation that happened without his control. He orchestrated nothing and killed nobody. He used something people had begun to do themselves after the event and turned it into policy LOL... His comments to the press were again pure misdirection and opportunism. He had white western press running around screaming racism while he was doing what he was doing with other matters...
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 22:19 by The Watcher
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Afroboo
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 23:04 |
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Fiction , Black people can be racist.
I find it funny that some of the people claiming that "black people can not be racist" tend to be the same people who take pleasure in trying to emulate some of the racist behaviour/people they claim to hate.
Maybe we can't be racist but I notice that some black people do come across as if they would like to be in a position to be racist if/when given the opportunity..
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 23:19 |
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You know there is a big difference between racial prejudice and racism, can a BLACK person be racist..no!!
Here's the ultimate benchmark, if tomorrow the UK elects a BLACK prime minister, and he attempts to pass a law that directly discriminates against whites, how long do you imagine he would remain in power?....
Yet it is true that Tony Blair can put in place racist immigration policies, social care policies and change criminal law in a way that is directly bias against Africans and he can and does get away with it everyday...
That sir is racism....it is not the ability to be as stupid as the white man, it is the ability to use that prejudice to activity discriminate based on that prejudice...where is there a consistent example of BLACKS doing that in the UK?
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Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 00:14 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: Le Moor wrote:
That's it
Ok we got there in the end. Your definition is that racism can only be attributed through power of some degree.
This is the dictionarys defenition of the word:
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
It doesnt refer to degrees of power strangely enough.
Could this power angle you speak about be our convient interpretatation of racism to excuse our actions having association with the word, or is the dictionary generally not an accurate source of data.
Prejudice as I explained. Prejudging the nature of an individual yes. Racist no.
This is the dictionarys definiton of the word prejudiced:
an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
I agree with you here there is a difference although they do amount to the same thing? Its like comparing murder with 3rd degree murder.
This does not happen. Have you been to Africa? They truly don't imagine whites TODAY can be racist so they aren't towards them. Africans on the continent are extremly naive when it comes to white people.
So there are no Africans in Africa who despise white people and believe we are superior and i would need to travel there to conclude that.? Also you think that all Africans on the continent are too naive when it comes to white people therefore none of them can be racist. Is that it? How accurate is this claim?
The racism was the proaction of the whites, not that desperate reaction of the blacks. by your interpretation are you saying Mugabe personally was an oportunist exploiting a situation that happened without his control. He orchestrated nothing and killed nobody. He used something people had begun to do themselves after the event and turned it into policy LOL... His comments to the press were again pure misdirection and opportunism. He had white western press running around screaming racism while he was doing what he was doing with other matters...
I agree with you here and probably not such a good example to display my point.
Last edited on Sunday June 25th, 2006 00:53 by Le Moor
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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 01:42 |
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Le Moor wrote:
This is the dictionarys defenition of the word:
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
It doesnt refer to degrees of power strangely enough.
You would hardly expect it to. It is designed to be concise and brief. It is a dictionary not an encyclopedia.
Could this power angle you speak about be our convient interpretatation of racism to excuse our actions having association with the word, or is the dictionary generally not an accurate source of data.
We are talking of power structures and racism in real terms of affecting life and oppression. You would not expect a dictionary to fill you in on these things. It's like expecting a grade-A physics lesson when you look up the word "nuclear".
BTW as I said, I have explained about our actions on your other thread. We can be prejudiced, not racist.
This is the dictionarys definiton of the word prejudiced:
an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
Yes and I agree as individuals some of us do this.
So there are no Africans in Africa who despise white people and believe we are superior and i would need to travel there to conclude that?
You're being facetious. Obviously you will find individuals of any nature which do not follow a rule when generalising about people. You may find such people but on the whole and systematically no. That is a thinking which is endemic to blacks in the west precisely because we lives WITH white people and face their actions daily. It's twofold. Sure we are bombarded with their lovelyness on TV but we have the experience of life to contrast... in Africa all you get is the loveliness on TV and sorry to say but most people swallow it whole.
Also you think that the vast majority of Africans on the continent are too naive when it comes to white people therefore none of them can be racist (systematically). Is that it? How accurate is this claim? Very
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 04:22 |
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Le Moor wrote: Black people cannot be racist? Fact or Fiction?
If you think or believe that Black people are factually racist, please give me a good example/instance of how Blacks have been racist towards diabolical Whites/racist East Indians in spite of the fact these two people have huge population in Africa, precisely in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria, Botswana to mention but a few and were allowed to continue to reside in peace regardless of the atrocities they had committed against native Africans in those countries. Not long ago, white southerners in the U.S.A released country music records one after the other abusing Blacks racially, calling them c**ons, n*****s etc, had Blacks reacted by racially abusing them back, calling them crackers or pigs or bluefoot or white trash etc, would you had called them (blacks in the south of U.S.A) racist? Did your whitey father or mother in-law put you up to this or are you a cracker yourself pretending to be black? Maybe someone needs to put up those terrifying images of black lynchings (women and children being hanged 2gether while whiteys were smiling with pleasure) in USA here for this mug to see.
Do you moron think these terrifying images below are funny, is that what you think?
http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/african/2000/lynching.htm
Last edited on Sunday June 25th, 2006 04:42 by obal85
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 07:15 |
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obal85 wrote: Le Moor wrote: Black people cannot be racist? Fact or Fiction?
If you think or believe that Black people are factually racist, please give me a good example/instance of how Blacks have been racist towards diabolical Whites/racist East Indians in spite of the fact these two people have huge population in Africa, precisely in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria, Botswana to mention but a few and were allowed to continue to reside in peace regardless of the atrocities they had committed against native Africans in those countries. Not long ago, white southerners in the U.S.A released country music records one after the other abusing Blacks racially, calling them c**ons, n*****s etc, had Blacks reacted by racially abusing them back, calling them crackers or pigs or bluefoot or white trash etc, would you had called them (blacks in the south of U.S.A) racist? Did your whitey father or mother in-law put you up to this or are you a cracker yourself pretending to be black? Maybe someone needs to put up those terrifying images of black lynchings (women and children being hanged 2gether while whiteys were smiling with pleasure) in USA here for this mug to see.
Do you moron think these terrifying images below are funny, is that what you think?
http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/african/2000/lynching.htm
Does the word moron stretch as far to a person with confusion over the concept of this thread.?
Are you suggesting that the catergory of ones actions determine whether they are racist or not.?
Would that be why the reason why you would try to emotionally railroad us by not defining the word racist in its entirety?
Can feelings through hate not eventually be catorgorised as racist via ones actions?
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
OBAL wrote: If you think or believe that Black people are factually racist, please give me a good example/instance of how Blacks have been racist.
Not a problem but lets make this fair. If i do will you promise to highlight the fact you're were an arse in big bold red letters?
Fair is only fair is it not. ?
Last edited on Sunday June 25th, 2006 08:43 by Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 07:20 |
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liberiangirl wrote: With all due respect Backyata, I think the more appropriate terms would be 'bigotry' and 'colorism', not racism.
@ liberiangirl
Actually that was my nonchalant, knee-jerk response. 
What I am really saying is that they can be by virtue of 'feeding' into the Racist SYSTEM with their views, attitudes and behaviour toward their fellow blacks.
You see for me a person (mainly whites of course) is racist through their support (which is not always explicit) of a system built on the premise that in the 'social/political/economical hierachy' white skin takes precedence.
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 07:33 |
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The person who began the thread would be less confused about "Racism" if he or she actually understood what it was, and would therefore be less able to spread confusion amongst the African community:
The answer is here ...
Dr. Frances Cress Welsing
"As a black behavioral scientist and practicing psychiatrist, my own functional definition of Racism (White Supremacy) is as follows:
"Racism (White Supremacy) is the local and global power system and dynamic, structured and maintained by persons who classify themselves as white, whether consciously or subconsciously determined, which consists of patterns of perception, logic, symbol formation, thought, speech, action and emotional response, as conducted simultaneously in all areas of people activity (economics, education, entertainment, labor, law, politics, religion, sex and war), for the ultimate purpose of white genetic survival and to prevent white genetic annihilation on planet Earth - a planet upon which the vast majority of people are classified as nonwhite (black, brown, red and yellow) by white skinned people, and all of the nonwhite people are genetically dominant (in terms of skin coloration) compared to the genetic recessive white skin people".
The system of Racism (White Supremacy) utilizes deceit and violence (inclusive of chemical warfare, biological warfare and psychological warfare), indeed Any Means Necessary, to achieve its ultimate goal objective of white genetic survival and to prevent white genetic annihilation on planet Earth.
In the existing system of Racism (White Supremacy) when the term is undefined and poorly understood there is general confusion and chaos on the part of the victims of that system (local, national and global). It then becomes impossible for the victims of racism (White Supremacy) to effectively counter the global system of Racism (White Supremacy).
The African enslavement, imperialism, colonialism, neo-colonialism, fascism, etc., are all dimensions and aspects of Racism (White Supremacy)."
Amazing what you can find in a book
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 07:43 |
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Backatya wrote: liberiangirl wrote: With all due respect Backyata, I think the more appropriate terms would be 'bigotry' and 'colorism', not racism.
@ liberiangirl
Actually that was my nonchalant, knee-jerk response.
What I am really saying is that they can be by virtue of 'feeding' into the Racist SYSTEM with their views, attitudes and behaviour toward their fellow blacks.
You see for me a person (mainly whites of course) is racist through their support (which is not always explicit) of a system built on the premise that in the 'social/political/economical hierachy' white skin takes precedence.
Respect
Correct, perfect definiton.
Now is it not possible for blacks to entertain their own system or are you suggesting the degree of that system is what determines one to qualify as being racist?
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 08:04 |
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MarcusGarveyLives wrote: The person who began the thread would be less confused about "Racism" if he or she actually understood what it was, and would therefore be less able to spread confusion amongst the African community:
Until this thread concludes wouldnt you be premature in your assumptions, insolence even?. lol
When it does conlcude and if you're proven wrong can i remind you of your words and then challenge you on who really does the spreading of confusion in this villiage?
Could the early words in your post be construed as mythical to some? If so wouldnt it cancel out the rest of the post?
By definiton isnt your post suggesting racism is attributed soley to white supremacy?
Is racism really attributed soley to white supremacy or do you just need it to be so?
Could i not argue that the denial is a convienance to someone who deals in racist actions to escape association from the word?. Ironically isnt this what we see from white institutions consistently, daily even?
By definition one who practices racism is known as a racist.
Is this not an accurate s analagy of the word racist in its most simplistic formatt?
Therefore i ask you Marcus Garvey can a black person be racist or not?
Last edited on Sunday June 25th, 2006 08:10 by Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 08:41 |
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Le Moor wrote: Now is it not possible for blacks to entertain their own system or are you suggesting the degree of that system is what determines one to qualify as being racist?
@ Le Moor
I am not sure what you mean by ' posible for blacks to entertain their own system'. Do you mean blacks having a system of racism in addition to the white supremist based one? Maybe if you can elaborate I could answer more appropriately, as it is not possbile for me to envisage a black system of racism.
The second part of your question seems to be asking 'what is a racist'? (correct me if that is not what you are asking). Well, the simple answer to that would be 'anyone whose attitude, actions or deeds, effectively gives support to the afore mentioned premise and/or furthers the racist ends (i.e. that of maintaining the social/economic/political dominance of white over black).
The more complicated answer takes one into all sort of philosophical arguments about absolute definitions. e.g. does the display of 'something which can be categorised as 'racist' mean that person is (unequivocally/absolutely) a Racist or that it is just their behaviour that is racist  . Such a discussion could get real deep and, to be honest, is not want I would really expend my energy on. But as a topic for academic discussion it might appeal to some.
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:15 |
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Backatya wrote: Le Moor wrote: Now is it not possible for blacks to entertain their own system or are you suggesting the degree of that system is what determines one to qualify as being racist?
@ Le Moor
I am not sure what you mean by ' posible for blacks to entertain their own system'. Do you mean blacks having a system of racism in addition to the white supremist based one?
I mean a system which attempts lets say for example of a lesser degree which mirrors the white supremist idea.
Maybe if you can elaborate I could answer more appropriately, as it is not possbile for me to envisage a black system of racism.
The second part of your question seems to be asking 'what is a racist'? (correct me if that is not what you are asking). Well, the simple answer to that would be 'anyone whose attitude, actions or deeds, effectively gives support to the afore mentioned premise and/or furthers the racist ends (i.e. that of maintaining the social/economic/political dominance of white over black).
The more complicated answer takes one into all sort of philosophical arguments about absolute definitions. e.g. does the display of 'something which can be categorised as 'racist' mean that person is (unequivocally/absolutely) a Racist or that it is just their behaviour that is racist . Such a discussion could get real deep and, to be honest, is not want I would really expend my energy on. But as a topic for academic discussion it might appeal to some.
Are we playing chess again Backatya?
Is it absoloute definitons or its that racism has many different variants to the word under the main haeding?
If so can black people not be racist under any of those variants?
You used the words
social/economic/political dominance of white over black
So if a black politician in say Hackney council attempts to install measures that could be construed as an attempt to socially, economically and politically domininate the Hackney Borough region, could he be deemed a racist?
Last edited on Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:21 by Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:20 |
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Le Moor: I think you're beginning to appear to be argumentative for the sake of it....It is really not up to the majority to prove you wrong, if you feel that you are right then surely the onus is on you to give examples where you believe an African can be racist, or has been racist...
So it would be good to see if you can put some clothes on your argument.
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:38 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Le Moor: I think you're beginning to appear to be argumentative for the sake of it....It is really not up to the majority to prove you wrong, if you feel that you are right then surely the onus is on you to give examples where you believe an African can be racist, or has been racist...
So it would be good to see if you can put some clothes on your argument.
How do reach such conclusions? Sorry if you feel that way but i can assure you im neither ingenuine or incapable of admitting im wrong, so where does your " arguement for arguement sake" plea arise from?
Directly above your last post i have served the example you refer to in a respone to our friendly neighrbourhood Mod.
The question has hat, shoes, and gloves attached, so which other items of clothing would you like me to refer to?
Last edited on Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:39 by Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:40 |
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| Le Moor: sorry maybe I have missed your examples..can you point them out to me?
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:48 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Le Moor: sorry maybe I have missed your examples..can you point them out to me?
I just did. here it is again though
So if a black politician in say Hackney council attempts to install measures that could be construed as an attempt to socially, economically and politically domininate the Hackney Borough region, could he not be deemed a racist?
Also you said
....It is really not up to the majority to prove you wrong, if you feel that you are right then surely the onus is on you to give examples where you believe an African can be racist, or has been racist...
Surely the onus is of equal responsibility to those who agree and those who disagree. Isnt that the concept of debate?
Or does popular opinion (misguidedness even) override this?
Last edited on Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:50 by Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:58 |
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@ Le Moor
Actually I am not 'playing' at anything. I am being honest when I say I don't really understand what it is your are asking me. The initial quesiton you posed when you started the thread was simple enough and I answered (or so I thought) as best I could in my two posts. However, I didn't really understand your followup questions, and to be honest, my understanding is not improved following your attempt to elaborate. Hey, maybe it's me. But it's the truth, I am not getting it.....pure and simple.....no games there.
Your Hackney black politician scenario did not help. For one thing you left out one critical aspect.......DOMINATE IT FOR THE BENEFIT OF WHOM?.....himself, Hackney residents, black people in Hackney, who?
Anway, as I said, I am not up for a purely academic, or philosophic discussion on Racism, or 'variants' thereof. To me it's quite clear what RACISM is (conceptually and in actuality) even if definitions of 'what is a racist' can get a little blurred.
Finally, my reference to 'absolute definitions' (maybe not well explained on my part) was in regard to wheteher it is possible to call somone (categorically/unequivocally) a RACIST by virtue of the fact that they displayed behaviour which can be categorised as RACIST. I suppose I can be accused of getting slightly into the academic/philosophically realm there. But, think of it this way. We can all probably come to an agreed definition of what a lie is. Does it then follow that if someone is caught telling a lie in a certain instance that they are in fact a LIAR? Depends on how you define a liar doesn't it?
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 09:58 |
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Le Moor wrote:
I just did. here it is again though
So if a black politician in say Hackney council attempts to install measures that could be construed as an attempt to socially, economically and politically domininate the Hackney Borough region, could he not be deemed a racist?
Ok I did see this, but I already address this point earlier myself, with my Prime Minister example.. Technically you are right IF the above could happen.. My point is that it simply couldn't the white majority wouldn't stand for it, the national goverment would invoke a judicial review to stop it and I suspect that man/woman would be out of office before he/she could say boo... What I'm saying Le Moor is that there are no examples of Blacks being racist in this way, but there are plently of example of the reverse..immigration, housing and benefits policies being good examples..
Also you said
....It is really not up to the majority to prove you wrong, if you feel that you are right then surely the onus is on you to give examples where you believe an African can be racist, or has been racist...
Surely the onus is of equal responsibility to those who agree and those who disagree. Isnt that the concept of debate?
Or does popular opinion (misguidedness even) override this?
Actually Le Moor: in this instance as the AUTHOR and instigator of this thread I believe the onus is on you to prove your case, I think others have provided clear examples to contradict your beliefs..now its up to you demostrate when amd where you believe this type of racism has happened...is that unreasonable?
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 10:07 |
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As Dr Cress-Welsing acknowledges in her epic work:
"If you do not understand White Supremacy (Racism) - what it is, and how it works - everything else that you think you understand, will only confuse you".
- Neely Fuller, Jr. (1971) The United Independent Compensatory Code / System / Concept
Don't Allow Yourself To Be Confused By Those Seeking To Spread Confusion
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 10:58 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Le Moor wrote:
I just did. here it is again though
So if a black politician in say Hackney council attempts to install measures that could be construed as an attempt to socially, economically and politically domininate the Hackney Borough region to benefit blacks over whites, could he not be deemed a racist?
Ok I did see this, but I already address this point earlier myself, with my Prime Minister example.. Technically you are right
Technically or wholely?
Kunjufu wrote:
IF the above could happen.. My point is that it simply couldn't the white majority wouldn't stand for it, the national goverment would invoke a judicial review to stop it and I suspect that man/woman would be out of office before he/she could say boo...
What I'm saying Le Moor is that there are no examples of Blacks being racist in this way, but there are plently of example of the reverse..immigration, housing and benefits policies being good examples..
Le Moor wrote:
... racism can be defined as: any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life..
Are you 100% sure that a black man in a black borough couldnt attempt to do this? Even if he attempts and fails is he racist. Even if he thinks about it is he racist? Does it have to be on a scale which would even be recognised by the white power you refer to be classed as racist?
Can a black man not be racist just because i cannont provide you with with any real examples of this happening? (which i cant of course)
Actually Le Moor: in this instance as the AUTHOR and instigator of this thread I believe the onus is on you to prove your case, I think others have provided clear examples to contradict your beliefs..now its up to you demostrate when amd where you believe this type of racism has happened...is that unreasonable?
Yes.
Apart from DM, no-one else has answered my questions to the extent where they have displayed a clear arguement of why black people cannont be racist.
Are you subconsciously biased here for fear of your own personal beliefs being questioned? Cant see any reason other to think that that you would aasume that im not interested in conclusion to my debate.
Does the style of my debate have to fit within a certain hole which satisfies you or am i allowed to prove my case any way i feel fit except againgst BN policy?
Take Mao Tse Tung Lives for example, he addresses me with his assumptions i ask a few valid questions and then he goes missing, but chooses to debate behind closed doors. As per ususal. The mans nothing short of an imposter with no balls to prove otherwise. Hes consisntently right but occasionally very wrong. Nutin wrong in that but theres something very wrong in not allowing oneself to be examined via conversation. Hes a friggin fraud imo but a heavyweight in others.
You know i take exception to you accusing me of not debating to a standard of your likeing.
I could turn around to you and say you should focus on Moderating firstly before you bother about trival issues. For instance, early i was viciously insulted by Obal, man wants to question my family etc like he f**king knows anything about me. Where the f**k were you then, or its it that you hold the same misguided interpretations as him and i would have upset your apple cart somewhat. Wasnt you recently addressing me about insulting comments towards The Peace?
Kiss teet.
Mans enjoying himself through debate and now that debate aint good enough standard.
Last edited on Saturday October 7th, 2006 12:43 by Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 11:23 |
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Hmm... If in terms of Black and White I don't think a black person can be racist towards a white person anymore than a woman can be discriminative, sexist towards a man, and there is no such thing as 'mannism'.
Think of it like this..
Think of as many derrogatory terms for a black person.. the list is endless
but try the same for a white person..bluefoot? Well I wouldn't even include that because the connotations are exclusive to members on here and its implications are not as destructive say as being called a 'N****r' ; so there aren't as many terms, associations opportunites to be truely racist towards them, whereas every derrogatory term used against a black person is not just a mere case of 'hurt feelings' ,but it can effect one's life chance, perception, job opportunites, hell try walking down the road with such a term blazoned across your back, it is highly unlikely a white person can or will experience this.
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 11:38 |
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No point in trying to educate one who doesn't want to be educated. In their world they prefer the mist and the haze to the wood from the trees
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway:
Whites = evil
'Blacks' = godliness
Simple.
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 12:25 |
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**long tings Alert**
Le Moor: First you really need to calm down.... Second I am NOT god nor do I wish to be him/her...So unless i recieve a direct complaint about someone's behaviour, I do not always jump into things unless it is glaringly obvious....so lets set that bit aside shall we..if you felt insulted then its up to you to communicate that, not for me to guess that you might be upset...
Also I do not remember asking you to debate to my, BNV or any other standards. I just questioned your stance in the face of overwhelming evidence, i would cite MGL as good example i believe you avoided taking on, .. That is a reasonable position to take..so why you're making it personal with me is truely baffling..
Now that I have dealt with the above nonsense can I please be allowed to explain perhaps why others and I are slightly confused by your position.....
Racism..the definition you gave in your last post is quite simply wrong and inaccurate to put it bluntly... I argue that many people BLACK and White THINK they know what racism is but in truth they don't... here's couple of important points on this issue..
First..you cannot understand the concept of racism by looking in a dictionary, because whilst a dictionary will discribe the racism and its meaning..it cannot and will not explain its functionality, the manifestation of racism and the history racism... Racism is more than just a word, it's a complex contruct, an idealogy that goes beyond a simple definition...which is why i suggest you're not getting the argument..
Second..whilst I accept Africans can and do behave with racist intent..I could cite Mugabe, Ide Amin as two prime examples where this has happened in recent past. The fact remains that an African cannot be racism towards a WHITE person and yes scale is all important, because the vital component of POWER..is a huge factor..
Thompson(1993) measures this with his P.C.S. analysis...(he btw is WHITE),
P=personal/psychological theory, he describes this as the infexiblity of the mind, beliefs and practice etc based on prejudice...
C=Cultural, he decribes this as shared values and thoughts, an ASSumed consensus about what is right or normal, that leads to conformity of social norms, reinforced within vehicles such as humour politics etc..
S=Structural, the network of social division, the way to simplify still further the cultural norms are insitutionalised to be oppressive, discrimintory that locks the combined forces of POWER and INFLUENCE..
Now having laid out the concept in its simpliest form, I argue that it is quite simply impossible for any African in the UK, to move his own prejudices into the realm of the cultural and the structural.. using the PCS structure as a guide.. Yes your man in Hackney, might well harbour ill will towards whites/Nigerians etc...but I argue it would be impossible for him translate that in the culture or the structure of the authority, or better still to take that onto endemic level where its insitutionalised..THAT IS WHY LE MOOR YOU ARE WRONG in just about every way possible!!!
The furthest any Black person has gotten to achieving your thoughts, in my memory would have been in the late 70's early 80's when Lambeth council had a policy of forcing all staff to go on RACE AWARENESS training..and that training was ROUGH HOUSE believe me..Shock and Awe had nothing on this policy..but even this campaign was done with the cooperation and support of EUROPEANS...and the reason why you don't know about it now is obvious I would have though non?
Ps: you will also note that I dealt with your argument point by point without the need to personalise or insult you, i would respectful expect the same behaviour in your reply thanks..
Last edited on Sunday June 25th, 2006 12:27 by Kunjufu
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Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 12:53 |
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athaba wrote: No point in trying to educate one who doesn't want to be educated. In their world they prefer the mist and the haze to the wood from the trees
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Anyway:
Whites = evil
'Blacks' = godliness
How can do you educate from a starting point of dumb?
@ Kunjufu you asked for an example earlier, where heres as good living example as any.
If Athaba believes here generalisation.
Are her comments therefore not an example of how a black person could exercise racism?
Thankyou Athaba your stupidity has been a useful exercise.
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