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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:30 |
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Fact or Fiction?
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babygirl44
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 18:47 |
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I admire your persistence but can you now please abort your mission to be this sites defender of white people as well as your constant attempts to paint black people as being as bad as whites in their racism. Its getting tired. Even if individual black people are racists, it doesn't matter because they don't have power. Its when you have power that racism becomes dangerous because then you can damage the lives of those races you hate. Black people have no power so if we want to call a bluefoot a bluefoot, it hurts nobody. However, if a white person in a senior position hated black people they could use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school.
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:00 |
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babygirl44 wrote: I admire your persistence but can you now please abort your mission to be this sites defender of white people as well as your constant attempts to paint black people as being as bad as whites in their racism. Its getting tired. Even if individual black people are racists, it doesn't matter because they don't have power. Its when you have power that racism becomes dangerous because then you can damage the lives of those races you hate. Black people have no power so if we want to call a bluefoot a bluefoot, it hurts nobody. However, if a white person in a senior position hated black people they could use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school.
Thanks for the admiration but try not to focus on me too much else you're in danger of breaking the BN rules. That being taking a subject matter off topic. Your virelent post partially displays this. If you cant do that then walk.
So back to the debate in hand.
Are you suggesting that racism can only be administered through power and if that is the case how would you define the word power?
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:02 by Le Moor
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Pele
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:11 |
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Fact: U need some sleep!
All humans have some racist in them.
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:13 by Pele
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:15 |
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Le Moor wrote:
Are you suggesting that racism can only be administered through power and if that is the case how would you define the word power?
To be fair Le Moor she gave you a definition already
"use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school."
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:22 |
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@ Pele.......Sleep is for wimps.
DM wrote :
To be fair Le Moor she gave you a definition already
"use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school."
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damage their childrens education?
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:34 by Le Moor
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:31 |
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Babygirl wrote:
Its when you have power that racism becomes dangerous because then you can damage the lives of those races you hate.
Is it possible to damage yourself. Isnt that another perception you havent thought of?
Black people have no power so if we want to call a bluefoot a bluefoot, it hurts nobody.
Is it ok for a chav to be racist then?
Amonst your post arent there a lot of assumptions going on here again.?
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:33 |
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Le Moor wrote: @ Pele.......Sleep is for wimps.
DM wrote :
To be fair Le Moor she gave you a definition already
"use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school."
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Less than 2% of population. Of that 2% what % do you imagine are in hire/fire positions? It's a matter of priorities. They could affect all of us without blinking... while we wouldn't affect a fraction of them.
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damaging their childrens education?
You're talking about random individual blacks in the context of an overall white system. They would be more likely to fire YOU than a white guy since they represent that very system.
Blacks have virtually no chance of affecting anything whites do in such a framework which is why I don't bother with things that try to affect them. I don't want to change their minds on anything, I don't want to educate them... nothing. Too much inertia and the focus is wrong.
Blacks can call whites names which may temporarily peeve them and hurt their feelings but in the reverse sense it is back by a system of oppression which continues and history of it altogether. It is a far deeper thing.
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babygirl44
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:43 |
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Le Moor wrote:
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damaging their childrens education?
Of course there are black people in positions of hiring and firing but they tend not to discriminate against white people for fear of not being promoted/damaging their prospects because remember, although you may have many very senior black execs out there, 99% of the ones working in large organisations are not the busineess owners, the owners are white people. Black people who own businesses normally own small businesses that cater to other black people like hairdressers, barbers, food shops so they will have other black people that work for them. White people don't want to/have no business being in those types of jobs so they can't be discrimiated there.
In addition I genuinely belive that no black business owner or senior person would use their power to prevent a white person from progressing. Its not in our mentality to behave that way, its white people who cannot bear to share power and who are so bad minded that they will put systems in place to prevent black people from achieving. Have you not noticed that when white people go to black countries, they are always treated very well, almost like they are kings? Look how black people are treated when they come to white people's countries. Using power to fulfil racist ambitions is the white man's way of working not the black man's.
Furthermore in my experience some black people in positions of authority will even discriminate against their OWN in favour of white people so that they look good in whiteys eyes. There was a bounty female black teacher in my secondary school who would blatantly treat the black kids more harshly then the white kids, does that make any sense? Must of being trying to catch the eye of the white headteacher so that she could be promoted to head of dept.
Finally I am not at all interest in whether one white child has their prospects damaged, I worry about the black boys I see roaming the streets without a future because they have been told time and time again that they are nothing and that the only part they played in the history of man was that of slaves.
For everything that black people have suffered on this earth i think calling a bluefoot and bluefoot is the least damaging thing that they deserve, don't you?
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:45 by babygirl44
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:48 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: Le Moor wrote: @ Pele.......Sleep is for wimps.
DM wrote :
To be fair Le Moor she gave you a definition already
"use their power to prevent them from getting jobs and damage their childrens edcation in school."
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Less than 2% of population. Of that 2% what % do you imagine are in hire/fire positions? It's a matter of priorities. They could affect all of us without blinking... while we wouldn't affect a fraction of them.
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damaging their childrens education?
You're talking about random individual blacks in the context of an overall white system. They would be more likely to fire YOU than a white guy since they represent that very system.
Blacks have virtually no chance of affecting anything whites do in such a framework which is why I don't bother with things that try to affect them. I don't want to change their minds on anything, I don't want to educate them... nothing. Too much inertia and the focus is wrong.
Blacks can call whites names which may temporarily peeve them and hurt their feelings but in the reverse sense it is back by a system of oppression which continues and history of it altogether. It is a far deeper thing.
So what are you saying. That racism is only defined by power adminsitered through a system. Is that its definition or can a chav on the dole (who even white people despise) also be racist.
Are you also saying that it is possible for black people to be racist but only for 2% of black people. Therefore because only 2% of black people can be racist its not a big enough percentage to qualify ANY black person capable of being racist?
Can Africans in Africa be racist? or West indians in the Caribbean be racist?
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:54 by Le Moor
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 19:57 |
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Le Moor wrote:
So what are you saying. That racism is only defined by power adminsitered through a system. Is that its definition or can a chav on the dole (who even white people despise) also be racist.
A chav certainly can since he is the enforcer of the racism that the system itself overtly restricts itself from. They create him and place him in a position to feel as he does while giving him the psychological hints and misinformation to attack you and feel threatened by you. He is a creation of the system that makes a poor pretence at combating him. He is a part of the racist system Le Moor.
Are you also saying that it is possible but for black people to be racist but only for 2% of black people. Therefore because only 2% of black people can be racist its not a big enough percentage to qualify ANY black person capable of being racist? Nuh uh. Read stats again. No 2% of black people. But 2% of people are black. Big difference. Even if all of us 100% were racist, we couldn't affect the white people in this country. And far from 100% of us are or even close.
BTW black people can be prejudice, as in we can prejudge the nature of an individual like anybody else. But to act in a racist manner for me is about power. Power we don't have.
Can Africans in Africa be racist? or West indians in the Caribbean be racist? Even there I have yet to see Africans exerting power over white people in a meaningful way.
Even where they do, the people en masse do not have the resentment and hatred that seems to me to be natural in Europeans. We simply don't hate that much. Especially when surrounded by ourselves at home. Perhaps we don't hate enough...
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Backatya
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 21:14 |
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YES MOST DEFINITELY THEY CAN!
AGAINST OTHER BLACK PEOPLE!
Respect
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liberiangirl
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 21:26 |
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| With all due respect Backyata, I think the more appropriate terms would be 'bigotry' and 'colorism', not racism.
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 22:36 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: Le Moor wrote:
So what are you saying. That racism is only defined by power adminsitered through a system. Is that its definition or can a chav on the dole (who even white people despise) also be racist.
A chav certainly can since he is the enforcer of the racism that the system itself overtly restricts itself from. They create him and place him in a position to feel as he does while giving him the psychological hints and misinformation to attack you and feel threatened by you. He is a creation of the system that makes a poor pretence at combating him. He is a part of the racist system Le Moor.
So if one has no power, but is part of a racist system, they can be deemed racist. Therefore the reason black people canont be racist is because they do not belong to the race responsible for the racist system. Is that it?
Are you also saying that it is possible but for black people to be racist but only for 2% of black people. Therefore because only 2% of black people can be racist its not a big enough percentage to qualify ANY black person capable of being racist? Nuh uh. Read stats again. No 2% of black people. But 2% of people are black. Big difference. Even if all of us 100% were racist, we couldn't affect the white people in this country. And far from 100% of us are or even close.
BTW black people can be prejudice, as in we can prejudge the nature of an individual like anybody else. But to act in a racist manner for me is about power. Power we don't have.
Although the communication could have been clearer im aware of the stats. Is there a relevance though as all im trying to determine here is whether its possible for one singular black person to be racist or not?
Can Africans in Africa be racist? or West indians in the Caribbean be racist? Even there I have yet to see Africans exerting power over white people in a meaningful way.
So intially you said that racism is only administered through positions of power. You have acknowledged we are in power at home but now say that you see no eveidence of us exerting that power. So does racism have to be........
( 22.05 pm oh my god what a goal)
So does racism have to be recognised globally to qualify. In other words lets say an African person, who works in a small town in Botswana, discrimantes against his lowel graded colleage because he is not black. It will never reach the media as its just an everday life lead experience. Could he be racist or is there not enough power attributed to that indiviudaul. In others how exactly do you define power as i said earlier? To what degree does one qualify?
Even where they do, the people en masse do not have the resentment and hatred that seems to me to be natural in Europeans. We simply don't hate that much. Especially when surrounded by ourselves at home. Perhaps we don't hate enough...
Is hatred thats natural different to hatred thats induced through good reason? Or are they both hatred ?
Would you say that by using degortory terms gives good arguement to the perpetrator being filled with hatred, revenge you know all those negative, wasteful emotions? Or would you say its induced so its justified.?
Even where they do, the people en masse do not have the resentment and hatred that seems to me to be natural in Europeans. We simply don't hate that much. Especially when surrounded by ourselves at home. Perhaps we don't hate enough...
Are you talking now or pre holocaust? Is killing a good barometer of hatred and resentment or could it be passed off as some thing else?
When Maguabee was killing White farmers was he being racist? or could he not be racist as his actions were induced through good reason. Could he not be racist as his level of power isnt high enough to warrant the definiton of one being racist?
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 23:01 |
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babygirl44 wrote: Le Moor wrote:
So aren't there any Black People in positions to hire and fire?
Could they too damage a non-black persons chances of getting the job and damaging their childrens education?
Of course there are black people in positions of hiring and firing but they tend not to discriminate against white people for fear of not being promoted/damaging their prospects because remember, although you may have many very senior black execs out there, 99% of the ones working in large organisations are not the busineess owners, the owners are white people. Black people who own businesses normally own small businesses that cater to other black people like hairdressers, barbers, food shops so they will have other black people that work for them. White people don't want to/have no business being in those types of jobs so they can't be discrimiated there.
So if just one Black Business in Britain, does qualify by employing whites, can they not be racist as generally we dont do that sort of thing. Is that what you are saying? Arent there any Black Businesses out there that employ white people or is it that you dont know of any?
In addition I genuinely belive that no black business owner or senior person would use their power to prevent a white person from progressing. Its not in our mentality to behave that way, its white people who cannot bear to share power and who are so bad minded that they will put systems in place to prevent black people from achieving.
Really. So because you dont believe its within our power to behave like this naturally, does that exclude the possibility of a black person ever been racist by its defintion?
Have you not noticed that when white people go to black countries, they are always treated very well, almost like they are kings? Look how black people are treated when they come to white people's countries. Using power to fulfil racist ambitions is the white man's way of working not the black man's.
So your reasoning as to why black people cannont be racist is beacuse normally we dont behave that way towards them. Is that it?
Furthermore in my experience some black people in positions of authority will even discriminate against their OWN in favour of white people so that they look good in whiteys eyes. There was a bounty female black teacher in my secondary school who would blatantly treat the black kids more harshly then the white kids, does that make any sense? Must of being trying to catch the eye of the white headteacher so that she could be promoted to head of dept.
How does this relate to my question of whether a black person can be racist or not?
Finally I am not at all interest in whether one white child has their prospects damaged, I worry about the black boys I see roaming the streets without a future because they have been told time and time again that they are nothing and that the only part they played in the history of man was that of slaves.
How does this relate to my question of whether a black person can be racist or not?
For everything that black people have suffered on this earth i think calling a bluefoot and bluefoot is the least damaging thing that they deserve, don't you?
No sorry i dont. I dont entertain that comparison that is. I like to think my view has more depth than that. However this thread is not directly about the Bluefoot ting, thats been concluded on another thread.
This has been inspired by the infamous words of Backatya in that thread where he claimed black people cannont be racist.
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 23:12 by Le Moor
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday June 24th, 2006 23:12 |
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Le Moor wrote:
So if one has no power, but is part of a racist system, they can be deemed racist. Therefore the reason black people canont be racist is because they do not belong to the race responsible for the racist system. Is that it?
That's it 
Although the communication could have been clearer im aware of the stats. Is there a relevance though as all im trying to determine here is whether its possible for one singular black person to be racist or not?
Prejudice as I explained. Prejudging the nature of an individual yes. Racist no.
So does racism have to be recognised globally to qualify. In other words lets say an African person, who works in a small town in Botswana, discrimantes against his lowel graded colleage because he is not black. This does not happen. Have you been to Africa? They truly don't imagine whites TODAY can be racist so they aren't towards them. Africans on the continent are extremly naive when it comes to white people.
It will never reach the media as its just an everday life lead experience. Could he be racist or is there not enough power attributed to that indiviudaul. In others how exactly do you define power as i said earlier? To what degree does one qualify?
Locally, Globally etc At all levels Le Moor we are in no position to be racist.
Is hatred thats natural different to hatred thats induced through good reason? Or are they both hatred ?
Quantitavly and Qualitavly it's not in the same ball park.
Would you say that by using degortory terms gives good arguement to the perpetrator being filled with hatred, revenge you know all those negative, wasteful emotions? Or would you say its induced so its justified.?
You may or may not have read my response to this on the other thread. I say no different.
Are you talking now or pre holocaust?
NOW, as always we are too kind
Is killing a good barometer of hatred and resentment or could it be passed off as some thing else?
When Maguabee was killing White farmers was he being racist? or could he not be racist as his actions were induced through good reason. Could he not be racist as his level of power isnt high enough to warrant the definiton of one being racist?
When he was killing them? How many got killed? They got beaten up and sent packing for 20 years of wasting time and using international law to keep their hegemony of power in place, and for 100+ years of living on the fruits of theft. Their actions were keeping a nation down. They people reacted. The racism was the proaction of the whites, not that desperate reaction of the blacks. Mugabe personally was an oportunist exploiting a situation that happened without his control. He orchestrated nothing and killed nobody. He used something people had begun to do themselves after the event and turned it into policy LOL... His comments to the press were again pure misdirection and opportunism. He had white western press running around screaming racism while he was doing what he was doing with other matters...
Last edited on Saturday June 24th, 2006 23:19 by The Watcher
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Afroboo
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 00:04 |
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Fiction , Black people can be racist.
I find it funny that some of the people claiming that "black people can not be racist" tend to be the same people who take pleasure in trying to emulate some of the racist behaviour/people they claim to hate.
Maybe we can't be racist but I notice that some black people do come across as if they would like to be in a position to be racist if/when given the opportunity..
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 00:19 |
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You know there is a big difference between racial prejudice and racism, can a BLACK person be racist..no!!
Here's the ultimate benchmark, if tomorrow the UK elects a BLACK prime minister, and he attempts to pass a law that directly discriminates against whites, how long do you imagine he would remain in power?....
Yet it is true that Tony Blair can put in place racist immigration policies, social care policies and change criminal law in a way that is directly bias against Africans and he can and does get away with it everyday...
That sir is racism....it is not the ability to be as stupid as the white man, it is the ability to use that prejudice to activity discriminate based on that prejudice...where is there a consistent example of BLACKS doing that in the UK?
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Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday June 25th, 2006 01:14 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: Le Moor wrote:
That's it
Ok we got there in the end. Your definition is that racism can only be attributed through power of some degree.
This is the dictionarys defenition of the word:
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that </ |
