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TheDogon
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 01:17 |
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NomadaNare wrote:
She is just expanding on it, BUT try this subbing in countries....England attacks the US. While on US soil England launches many attacks. In response, the US defends as well as launches counter attacks. Even though the US is launching what seems to be attacks they are not really attacks but defensive mechanisms or responses in an attempt for survival and to push back the enemy. The defender can never be labeled the attacker unless the conflict at some point has been resolved and the previous defender attacks the previous attacker......Regarding us the conflict has never ended.....
I read bubz explanation, I've been trying to keep up with the argument, haven't really had time to reply. If you look at that situation objectively (which is also how I've been trying to view the whole racism situation), I assume racism is a parallel to attacking in this metaphor, so I will try communicate in that sense. Granted the US has the right to respond, it doesn't mean that the US isn't attacking. Just because one couldn't be blamed for trying to rid his land of his antagonist, it's still war, and you have to call it such.
Well NN, in your opinion. . .what is the "attack"? When one looks at Africans in Africa. . .and says they are a backwards people, is that an "attack"? Is it an "attack" to teach students identity with Africa that it's backwards? How about the thread where the mixed-race student was told he and his "Black" friend should play monkeys in a play instead of hunters?
Looking at the situation logically, where do you decide there is an "attack"?
Because most of us are thoroughly convinced "White" supremacy is a reality. And that is what is fueling the images we see, the education we are given, and the injustice we have to deal with.
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safetyblitz
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 08:57 |
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@Nomad
Ok try this one from TheDogon earlier (which I wished he had expanded on during our pissing contest LOL).....
If racists were considered a race......
And the RACISTS cooked a food, I could cook their food, I could serve their food, but I could never be called a True RACIST......No matter how skilled I became with their food even if became better at it than they are at cooking it and serving it......LOGICALLY.......I am still.......Only an imitator of RACISTS that looks like a RACIST and manufacturing and serving their concoctions but not a RACIST because I was not born one.....
Kinda like Eminem, he can look like us he can emulate us he can rap like us he can marry an AA woman but he will never be African American.......
Does that help?
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Backatya
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 09:12 |
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safetyblitz wrote: @Nomad
Ok try this one from TheDogon earlier.....
If racists were considered a race......
And the RACISTS cooked a food, I could cook their food, I could serve their food, but I could never be called a True RACIST......Only an imitator of RACISTS......
Does that help?
 Could someone explain that analogy for me?
Racist cooking food, and I cooking the same food? 
Is the food racist in nature or is it simply food which happens to be cooked by a racist?
The analogy makes no sense.
If a rapist cooked a food and I cooked their food, I could serve it but I could not be called a True RAPIST.....only an imitator of a RAPIST......??????
I think a lot that has been said before much more clearly explains what and who are TRUE racists than that analogy ever could......Just my opinion.
Respect
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Judge Punisher
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 13:26 |
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Mamoulian wrote: The solution to the worlds problems are not exterminating a part of nature. It is by respecting all of nature through worshipping Allah that the world is bought back into balance.
This man needs guidance from Allah instead of thinking that he can find a solution to all of what he sees as 'the worlds problems' - when we cannot even see all of the world as most of it is hidden from us.
To get back down to Earth: dreadlocks and dying your hair are forbidden by Allah.
Interesting points. Insteading of using Allah as your godly point of reference why don't you use JESUS!
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Judge Punisher
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 16:06 |
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Shemsi en Tehuti wrote:
but I would never agree with being separatists across the board. It would never work. People may think it would, but cutting yourself off, even from your enemies, spells out your own disaster.
How do you know this? And could you please expand on this point a bit further. For untold millenia we have survived perfectly well on the continant of Africa and there wasn't a single pale face in sight. We have survived all kinds of humanities at their hands and dispite the many, many problems still face as a race, we are still going strong. Do you think all the other races on this planet could have survived what our ancestors were subjected too? I doubt it very much.
Africans built America and western Europe. And if it wasn't for our participation those countries wouldn't be as strong as they are today.
Our biggest problem, is that we Africans are far too accommodating. That is what is going to lead to our eventual down fall if we do not watch out!! As a race we have massive potential. It isn't our job to sort out the problems of other races! Let them sort out their own problems. Even the great Malcom X pointed this very fact himself.
During the height of the 1960's civil rights movement, Jewish leaders wanted to team up with Malcom, but he wouldn't let them, because as he pointed out correctly that before the African American community can help sort out the problems in other peoples communities, they must first sort out the problems in their own!
So i say, all the other races can all go to blazes for all i care. Because we don't need them. And the only time these scum bags ever show their face, is when they want something! They have absolutely no respect for us.
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NomadaNare
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 17:09 |
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TheDogon wrote:
Well NN, in your opinion. . .what is the "attack"? When one looks at Africans in Africa. . .and says they are a backwards people, is that an "attack"? Is it an "attack" to teach students identity with Africa that it's backwards? How about the thread where the mixed-race student was told he and his "Black" friend should play monkeys in a play instead of hunters?
Looking at the situation logically, where do you decide there is an "attack"?
Because most of us are thoroughly convinced "White" supremacy is a reality. And that is what is fueling the images we see, the education we are given, and the injustice we have to deal with.
Ok, yeah white supremacy is definitely a reality I will agree with you on that, but white supremacy doesn't equal racism, white supremacy is a means by which racism is applied. It is a large and very deceptive power structure which affects the way we think. As for the "attacks", our attacks in the sense would be more like guerilla warfare. We can't out and out apply any of our prejudices as a group to white people in any economically meaningful way, but we can denigrate them socially in their own eyes. A perfect example is the youth culture. How many white people do you know who want to be "down". Now compare that number to the amount of white people who actually are "down". The reason they aren't "down" is based solely on their skin color or characteristics that are associated with this.
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TheDogon
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 17:14 |
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Backatya wrote: safetyblitz wrote: @Nomad
Ok try this one from TheDogon earlier.....
If racists were considered a race......
And the RACISTS cooked a food, I could cook their food, I could serve their food, but I could never be called a True RACIST......Only an imitator of RACISTS......
Does that help?
Could someone explain that analogy for me?
Racist cooking food, and I cooking the same food?
Is the food racist in nature or is it simply food which happens to be cooked by a racist?
The analogy makes no sense.
If a rapist cooked a food and I cooked their food, I could serve it but I could not be called a True RAPIST.....only an imitator of a RAPIST......??????
I think a lot that has been said before much more clearly explains what and who are TRUE racists than that analogy ever could......Just my opinion.
Respect
Backatya, why do you think that is? Why would a "Black" person doubt that racism has much to do with "White" supremacy?
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 17:21 |
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From the teacher ...
"If you do not understand White Supremacy (Rascism) What it is, and how it works everything else that you understand, will only confuse you" Dr. Neely Fuller Jr. (1971)
... to the student ...
 Dr. Frances Cress Welsing
Author of The Isis Papers and creator of the Cress-Welsing theory analyzing the nature of white supremacy
Born March 18, 1935, in Chicago, IL.
Author, psychiatrist. Cook County Hospital, intern, 1962-63; St. Elizabeth Hospital, resident in general psychiatry, 1963-66; Children's Hospital, fellowship child psychiatry, 1966-68; private practice in general psychiatry, Washington, DC, 1966--, and general and child psychiatry, Washington, DC, 1968 --; Howard University College of Medicine, assistant professor of pediatrics, 1968-75; Hillcrest Children's Center, clinical director, 1975-76; affiliated with Paul Robeson School for Growth and Development, North Community Mental Health Center, Washington, DC, 1976-90. Has appeared on numerous television and radio shows; lecturer.
National Medicine Association (section on psychiatry and behavioral sciences), American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association.
 The Isis Papers: The Keys to the Colors
Publisher: Third World Press
Date Published: November 1990
Format: Trade Paper
Preface
We now are nearing the final decade of the 20th century. Recently, there has been an unraveling and an analysis of the core issue of the first global power sysem of mass oppression-- the power system of racism (white supremacy). One the collective victim (non-white population) understands this fundamental issue, the ultimate organizing of all of the appropriate behaviors necessary to neutralize the great injustice of the white supremacy power system will only be a matter of time. The length of time required to neutralize global white supremacy will be inversely proportional to 1) the level of understanding of the phenomenon; plus 2) the evolution of self- and group-respect, the will, determination and discipline to practice the appropriate counter-racist behaviors--on the part of the non-white victims of white supremacy."
... and for the benefit of those who did not see it first time ...
"The length of time required to neutralize global white supremacy will be inversely proportional to
1) the level of understanding of the phenomenon; plus
2) the evolution of self- and group-respect, the will, determination and discipline to practice the appropriate counter-racist behaviors--on the part of the non-white victims of white supremacy."
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TheDogon
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 17:26 |
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NomadaNare wrote: TheDogon wrote:
Well NN, in your opinion. . .what is the "attack"? When one looks at Africans in Africa. . .and says they are a backwards people, is that an "attack"? Is it an "attack" to teach students identity with Africa that it's backwards? How about the thread where the mixed-race student was told he and his "Black" friend should play monkeys in a play instead of hunters?
Looking at the situation logically, where do you decide there is an "attack"?
Because most of us are thoroughly convinced "White" supremacy is a reality. And that is what is fueling the images we see, the education we are given, and the injustice we have to deal with.
Ok, yeah white supremacy is definitely a reality I will agree with you on that, but white supremacy doesn't equal racism, white supremacy is a means by which racism is applied. It is a large and very deceptive power structure which affects the way we think. As for the "attacks", our attacks in the sense would be more like guerilla warfare. We can't out and out apply any of our prejudices as a group to white people in any economically meaningful way, but we can denigrate them socially in their own eyes. A perfect example is the youth culture. How many white people do you know who want to be "down". Now compare that number to the amount of white people who actually are "down". The reason they aren't "down" is based solely on their skin color or characteristics that are associated with this.
I don't understand the last statement. But anyway, I would like to go back to my questions. Let's take a real situation. A little boy and his "Black" classmate apply for the part of playing a Hunter in a school play. Instead, they are given the part of playing a monkey. Is that racist?
How can it be, when one subtracts "White" supremacy? One certainly couldn't claim racism if the roles were reversed, right?
Another example is the way African players were treated during the World Cup. "White" people made monkey and gorilla noises. They also threw banana peels at the African players. Well, we subtract "White" supremacy. It may be unkind to hit them with banana peels, but is it racist?
If I threw banana peel at a "White" person and made monkey noises. . .would that be racist?
No context, no history, and certainly no structure is added to the actions.
I am attempting to understand your own analogy. I don't see how it explains the situation. Youth Culture? Well right, many "White" people aren't down. But many are, right? I mean, you can claim young "Blacks" don't accept "White" people but here in the good ole' USA, I can prove you wrong.
In fact, it's absolutely frightening. If only we possesed the capability of locking "Whites" out.
We truly do not.
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TheDogon
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 17:47 |
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"The length of time required to neutralize global white supremacy will be inversely proportional to
1) the level of understanding of the phenomenon; plus
2) the evolution of self- and group-respect, the will, determination and discipline to practice the appropriate counter-racist behaviors--on the part of the non-white victims of white supremacy."
No truer words have been spoken. But given the length of this debate and the arguments that have been presented, one has to wonder if we will ever neutralize the effects that "White" supremacy. has on our people.
1. We have talked and somehow after pages and pages of articles, we haven't been logical or unemotional
2. We have had to deal with the charge of think all "Whites" evil simply because we think "White" supremacy=racism. A charge that doesn't touch even European logic.
Okay here's a question, are white people intrinsically evil? Were they racist before they went to other countries and met many of the other indigenous populations?
3. We constantly run into comparisons to other forms of discrimination, just like they were based on race.
If thats not a sign of implied superiority than I guess calling someone "gay" or "fag" as an insult isn't a sign of implied superiority in US culture right?
We absolutely have no hope, if we as a group cannot come together, recognize what has been done to us. Then identify the appropriate responses and implement them. But right now, we are simply a confused people who are being shelled and bombed. . .but we don't know where enemy is. . .and where our forces are on the battlefield.
May Almighty God help us.
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NomadaNare
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 18:05 |
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TheDogon wrote:
Ok, yeah white supremacy is definitely a reality I will agree with you on that, but white supremacy doesn't equal racism, white supremacy is a means by which racism is applied. It is a large and very deceptive power structure which affects the way we think. As for the "attacks", our attacks in the sense would be more like guerilla warfare. We can't out and out apply any of our prejudices as a group to white people in any economically meaningful way, but we can denigrate them socially in their own eyes. A perfect example is the youth culture. How many white people do you know who want to be "down". Now compare that number to the amount of white people who actually are "down". The reason they aren't "down" is based solely on their skin color or characteristics that are associated with this.
I don't understand the last statement. But anyway, I would like to go back to my questions. Let's take a real situation. A little boy and his "Black" classmate apply for the part of playing a Hunter in a school play. Instead, they are given the part of playing a monkey. Is that racist?
How can it be, when one subtracts "White" supremacy? One certainly couldn't claim racism if the roles were reversed, right?
Another example is the way African players were treated during the World Cup. "White" people made monkey and gorilla noises. They also threw banana peels at the African players. Well, we subtract "White" supremacy. It may be unkind to hit them with banana peels, but is it racist?
If I threw banana peel at a "White" person and made monkey noises. . .would that be racist?
No context, no history, and certainly no structure is added to the actions.
I am attempting to understand your own analogy. I don't see how it explains the situation. Youth Culture? Well right, many "White" people aren't down. But many are, right? I mean, you can claim young "Blacks" don't accept "White" people but here in the good ole' USA, I can prove you wrong.
In fact, it's absolutely frightening. If only we possesed the capability of locking "Whites" out.
We truly do not.
I definitely see where your coming from, really makes you think, but on all your questions I'm gonna have to say that if all of these actions were based on skin color, then they were racist. White Supremacy certainly adds depth to these cases, for if i was to throw a banana peel at a white person and make monkey noises it would have no meaning because the "white" supremacist philosophy does not define them as such, but if my throwing the peels at these white people was motivated by skin color, then it would be racist, it just wouldn't make very much sense in today's world. Same with the other examples. As for the last statement of my previous post, I was saying that the reason that white people aren't "down" is because alot of things that are established as "white" are also associated with dorkiness; (since we're working with perceived stereotypes I won't be politically correct) white people can't dance, white people can't jump, white people don't have that "soul", white people have flat butts, white people are "dorky" and have names like "Opie" and "Billy". I doubt that white people have made up these stereotypes for themselves as they have for every other race.
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TheDogon
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Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 22:23 |
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I don't understand the last statement. But anyway, I would like to go back to my questions. Let's take a real situation. A little boy and his "Black" classmate apply for the part of playing a Hunter in a school play. Instead, they are given the part of playing a monkey. Is that racist?
How can it be, when one subtracts "White" supremacy? One certainly couldn't claim racism if the roles were reversed, right?
Another example is the way African players were treated during the World Cup. "White" people made monkey and gorilla noises. They also threw banana peels at the African players. Well, we subtract "White" supremacy. It may be unkind to hit them with banana peels, but is it racist?
If I threw banana peel at a "White" person and made monkey noises. . .would that be racist?
No context, no history, and certainly no structure is added to the actions.
I am attempting to understand your own analogy. I don't see how it explains the situation. Youth Culture? Well right, many "White" people aren't down. But many are, right? I mean, you can claim young "Blacks" don't accept "White" people but here in the good ole' USA, I can prove you wrong.
In fact, it's absolutely frightening. If only we possesed the capability of locking "Whites" out.
We truly do not.
I definitely see where your coming from, really makes you think, but on all your questions I'm gonna have to say that if all of these actions were based on skin color, then they were racist. White Supremacy certainly adds depth to these cases, for if i was to throw a banana peel at a white person and make monkey noises it would have no meaning because the "white" supremacist philosophy does not define them as such, but if my throwing the peels at these white people was motivated by skin color, then it would be racist, it just wouldn't make very much sense in today's world. Same with the other examples. As for the last statement of my previous post, I was saying that the reason that white people aren't "down" is because alot of things that are established as "white" are also associated with dorkiness; (since we're working with perceived stereotypes I won't be politically correct) white people can't dance, white people can't jump, white people don't have that "soul", white people have flat butts, white people are "dorky" and have names like "Opie" and "Billy". I doubt that white people have made up these stereotypes for themselves as they have for every other race.
Again NN, I just don't know what to say. So in these situations, if a "White" person tells you that the actions weren't based on skin color, they aren't racist situations? That leaves me simply dumbfounded.
That's why we could never ever agree. Intention has nothing to do with racism. I learned a few years ago, that the word "squaw" was a racist term. I learned this from an Sioux/Apache Indian. A group of American Indians then went onto give me the background. They told me about the history and what the word was actually used for. In the dictionary, it isn't even defined as a racist word, but because of my ignorance of American Indian Culture(s), I could have used that word among them and offended them to the extreme.
Throwing a banana peel at a "Black" person is a racist gesture. Period. Because of the history and context added by "White" supremacy.
As for your assumption that "White" people aren't down or whatever. In the U.S.A., we have "White" artists that are making millions by being "down". They are smart enough to work with our creative youth and use them to promote their own fame. Christina Aguilera, Eminem, Jennifer Lopez, Justin Timberlake, Paris Hilton, are all "down" and making millions off collaboration with our young artists.
Your analysis based on racial stereotypes falls way short, simply because these supposed short-comings of "Whites" (dorks) cannot compare to the supposed short-comings of "Blacks" (subhumans).
Again, racism for you is name calling. That can't get it for the rest of us.
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safetyblitz
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Posted: Monday July 3rd, 2006 01:51 |
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Backatya wrote: safetyblitz wrote: @Nomad
Ok try this one from TheDogon earlier.....
If racists were considered a race......
And the RACISTS cooked a food, I could cook their food, I could serve their food, but I could never be called a True RACIST......Only an imitator of RACISTS......
Does that help?
Could someone explain that analogy for me?
Racist cooking food, and I cooking the same food?
Is the food racist in nature or is it simply food which happens to be cooked by a racist?
The analogy makes no sense.
If a rapist cooked a food and I cooked their food, I could serve it but I could not be called a True RAPIST.....only an imitator of a RAPIST......??????
I think a lot that has been said before much more clearly explains what and who are TRUE racists than that analogy ever could......Just my opinion.
Respect
You missed the concept altogether where I just think of RACISTs as a race meaning we just IMAGINE there there is a RACE called RACISTS......drop the known fact that whites are racists, we are only focusing on the IMAGINARY group of RACISTS and if you want another group named RAPISTs and forgetting the actions that these descriptions hold to in the real world......
The way you introduced RAPISTS into it, the RAPISTS would be considered a RACE in the concept I put forth to Nomad and not Sexual predators as we think of them.....think outside the box....
@Nomad
Maybe this would be better going back to a mythical attack of Canada launching an initial attack against the US, though the US may launch counter attacks it can never be considered the aggressor or invader. The US would be considered resisting or defending but never of being the aggressor, now we are talking hypothetically before anyone enters in with a list of things the US has done in the past and present.....LOL
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Backatya
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Posted: Monday July 3rd, 2006 07:12 |
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safetyblitz wrote:
You missed the concept altogether where I just think of RACISTs as a race meaning we just IMAGINE there there is a RACE called RACISTS......drop the known fact that whites are racists, we are only focusing on the IMAGINARY group of RACISTS and if you want another group named RAPISTs and forgetting the actions that these descriptions hold to in the real world......
The way you introduced RAPISTS into it, the RAPISTS would be considered a RACE in the concept I put forth to Nomad and not Sexual predators as we think of them.....think outside the box....
Sorry bro. I have to say that there is stretching it beyond belief. Trust me, the analogy simply does not work. For one thing, Rapist or 'RAPISM' is not built on an ideology. Rapist (well not to my knowledge) have not set any structure in place to ensure the continual survival and perpetuation of said ideology, or the realisation of their particular aims and goals.
Try as I may, however I look at it the analogy I cannot see how it adds absolutely anything to the concept under discussion here.
Respect
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LovelyPrincessAliya
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Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 01:58 |
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Last edited on Tuesday July 4th, 2006 01:59 by LovelyPrincessAliya
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Pele
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Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 02:26 |
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| This is just plain self-hate.................Wake up, just open your eyes and see the world as is, not as it should be or could be............
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Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday October 8th, 2006 04:02 |
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Personally, I don't like this move of redefining "racism" in a self-serving way and then saying we can't be racist. It's oversimplifying.
Firstly, there are situations when Blacks have the power to oppress others. An example which has been on my mind recently is the Prop 187 issue in California which many Blacks voted for. The proposition denies basic services like health care and education for illegal aliens and many people see it as an example racism directed mainly against Latinos.
Like it or not, there is a certain amount of political power which comes with being an American citizen and an Anglo (regardless of race) and African-Americans are certainly able to use that status against other people of color.
But at the same time, I would want to keep in mind the point which folks are trying to emphasize when they say that Blacks can't be racist: there is still a difference between the political power which Blacks are able to exercise against others and the power which whites are able to exercise. There is a vast difference between a couple of Black old men, sitting on a corner talking about "Peckerwood this" or "cracker that" and a couple of white old men sitting in a War Room deciding "Are we going to invade Panama or Libya this week?" Yeah, I would say that both are being racist, but there is a world of difference in terms of effect.
Gilberto -- April 1995
Some will argue that Blacks cannot be racist because, collectively, we have no "power" in the United States. Others will argue that power has nothing to do with being racist; race does. The answer? Yes.
-- darkstar 4/95
I always try to distinguish between individual racism and institutional racism.
Anyone can be an individual racist if they believe in the inherent inferiority/superiority of one race over another, or if they advocate basing the treatment of others on their race.
Blacks can't be very racist at the institutional level, for to really be racist at that level, they would have to control a large enough chunk of this nation's institutions to act on whatever individual racist tendencies they might have.
When many people claim "blacks ca't be racist," they are presumably referring to institutional racism. But I claim that all racism is not institutional, and for that reason they can be racist. They may lack the ability to oppress whites based on that racism, but in a few people it is there, and those people wouldn't hesitate to do so if given the opportunity.
-- Tim Irvin 4/95
But at the same time, I would want to keep in mind the point which folks are trying to emphasize when they say that Blacks can't be racist: there is still a difference between the political power which Blacks are able to exercise against others and the power which whites are able to exercise. There is a vast difference between a couple of Black old men, sitting on a corner talking about "Peckerwood this" or "cracker that" and a couple of white old men sitting in a War Room deciding "Are we going to invade Panama or Libya this week?" Yeah, I would say that both are being racist, but there is a world of difference in terms of effect.
-- Lane Singer 4/95
racialism:
the belief that there are differences between human beings which are inherited such that it they can be ordered into separate races in such a way that each race shares traits and tendencies which are not shared my members of any other race. each race has an 'essence'.
all forms of racism build from the premise of racialism. notice that racialism is not saying anything 'good' or 'bad' about races just that mutually exclusive races absolutely exist and divide the species.
extrinsic racism:
the extrinsic racist says that there is a moral component to the 'essence' of a race which warrants differential treatment. these differences are, to the extrinsic racist, not particularly controversial.
intrinsic racism:
the intrinsic racist says that the moral 'essence' of a race establishes an incontrovertable status for the race. no matter what an individual member of a race does he should be treated just like the rest of his race.
anyone who can understand race can be racist. any racist is equally wrong. the amount of control or influence of the racist party does not change the moral component. the white man who killed one black teenaged boy in one southern town and tied him to an air conditioner fan and tossed his body in the river is no more or less racist than the man who moved forward a presidential campaign on the principle that the opponent would let loose crazed black criminals if elected. racist is not as racist does. racist is as racist is.
certainly there are priorities in anti-racist struggle. the greatest is probably that of racist residential segregation which is a product of white supremacy. but that doesn't change are even effect the fact that there exist racists of all types in american society, black, white , latino, asian and otherwise.
an 'uncle tom' by definition is racist. an 'uncle tom' is a black person who internalizes white supremacist beliefs, hates themselves and other blacks, finds little redeeming about black life and always defers to white authority. if you read 'black boy' by richard wright, the book from which this term gains some perspective.
M.Bowen 4/95
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there was something that i thought was in the faq i published that i should put in having to do with racism and power.
most people who say that blacks can't be racist mean to say that blacks cannot and do not exert a system of control against white people. blacks can't get whitefolks tracked into inferior schools, for example. blacks can't deny whitefolks access to capital, blacks cannot create a police department policy that cracks down on whites.
however, let us be clear. the reason that there is a such phrase as 'institutional racism' is to underscore that type of power. that doesn't change the meaning of racism itself. racism has to do with *the way you think*.
Amen, translates nicely into "Racism is a state of mind". Its how it began and where it begins.
Continue maestro. lol
secondarily, racism is not simply a black & white thing in the american context. it has to do with the concept of race and one's regard for one's own and others'. in america, we rightly talk about white supremacy, which is the dominant form of racism in this country. that doesn't mean that black supremacy doesn't exist. it doesn't mean that black separatists aren't racist. it doesn't mean that ordinary blackfolks can't or don't subscribe to some form of racism.
let us also not quibble about degrees of racism. you cannot be 'somewhat' racist or 'sorta' racist or 'not quite as' racist as someone else. either you are, or you are not. period. it's like belief in god. either you believe god exists or you don't. it doesn't matter how much you do or don't go to church. racism, like belief in god is binary. (although it's true that somepeople can't, or refuse to make up their minds.) there is certainly a matter of degree about the consequences of your racist beliefs. you might never act on them. but that doesn't change the basic fact of your racism.
racism is an error. it can be a moral error, or it can be a cognitive error. people might believe racist things for [il]logical reasons or for [im]moral reasons. whatever the reason, it doesn't change the fundamental error of racism.
however it is the matter of power and responsibility that makes the greatest difference in the consequences of that error. someone who says that 2+2=5 is making a mathematical error. if that error takes place on a first grade pop quiz, the consequences are trivial. if that person is the quality engineer for the o-rings on the space shuttle, the consequences are deadly. if that person is the engineer for the valves on the poison gas lines in bhopal india, the consequences are catastrophic. but the error is the same.
the fact that someone is racist may or may not be consequential. everyone has the same reasons to correct the errors of racism. but depending on who that person is, the correction can be not worth the time of day or that correction can be life-saving.
so let me say three things in conclusion:
#1. there is absolutely no question that there are blackfolks who are racist, and if given the opportunity and power, would subject white people to the most profound humiliation, degradation and suffering. in a heartbeat. but they don't have the power, so you might as well ignore them and save yourself a headache.
#2. there is absolutely no question that there are whitefolks who are racist, and if given the opportunity and power, would subject black people to the most profound humiliation, degradation and suffering. in a heartbeat. but they don't have the power, so you might as well ignore them and save yourself a headache.
#3. look at whom, in this country, has suffered the most humiliation, degradation and suffering at the hands of racists. do something about it.
Last edited on Sunday October 8th, 2006 11:02 by Le Moor
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CashMoney
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Posted: Sunday October 8th, 2006 04:48 |
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Black people in the UK cannot be institunially racist for the reasosn outlned
As for the USA. Thats a whole different kettle of fish. Especailly in te South
Although the power still falls short of oppresing a huge swath of the population( i.e The White House)
But then -apart from immigration, etc- most policies are class based which dispraportionally effect black folks, along with a truckload of poor white/Asian/Latino folks
Even Affirmative Action policies benefits white women
As for the individual aspect, the fact that people were trying to argue against the propistion was 'interesting' to say the least
Last edited on Sunday October 8th, 2006 05:49 by CashMoney
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