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Homosexuality
 Moderated by: Saida.M, safetyblitz, Raven, Miss Brighter Days, LadyDay, Kunjufu, Kibibi, Happiness, Dillinger, Breadfruit, Backatya  

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Rusengo
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 Posted: Wednesday January 18th, 2006 11:08

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FredB wrote: Russengo, I hope you realise those definitions are a joke well two out of the three at least....

How? elaborate!

Simply pro gay propaganda the way I read it not authorative in any way.


Do you know for everyone of these pro gay authorities anybody can post 10 from an opposing view.

Go on then, so we can have something to base our debate on!

 I have books here on the medicalisation strategies used by gays to obtain influence eg turning homophobia into a psychological and some gay activists scholars go as far as suggest it is a mental condition. It is called normalising tactics you the minority created definitions which normalise you and render abnormal the majority.

Don't just sit there and write about things we have no evidence of, just bring them on so we can see for ourselves and debate, there are extremists in every culture, I am not but,this thread is about homosexuality and what it is to be a homosexual in heterosexual society. Do you know how many books have been written back in the WWII times, using scientific evidences to prove that whites are superior to blacks? where do you think the whole "rwandan genocide", hutu-tutsi hatred that's been going on for 50 years comes from? However some tutsis still believe that they are superior to hutus

 This is stale man, radical feminist done tried this and failed. Have you ever read the way the arbitarily use the term mysoginist which actually and literally means the hatred of women. Once you established an erroneous definition then you can advance even more spurious concepts in attempts to beef it up...

Where did you read about hatred?

 

Old moves homeboy very old and tired moves.


It is called the marginal and abnormal attempting to use psuedo science to problemitise the majority and think by using fancy labels we cannot see what they are attempting to do. So bro if all you are going to do is post stuff like this you might as well shut this thread down.

Heterosexism
 
Herek, 1990). Using the term heterosexism highlights the parallels between antigay sentiment and other forms of prejudice, such as racism, antisemitism, and sexism.
Like institutional racism and sexism, heterosexism pervades societal customs and institutions. It operates through a dual process of invisibility and attack. Homosexuality usually remains culturally invisible; when people who engage in homosexual behavior or who are identified as homosexual become visible, they are subject to attack by society.
Examples of heterosexism in the United States include the continuing ban against lesbian and gay military personnel; widespread lack of legal protection from antigay discrimination in employment, housing, and services; hostility to lesbian and gay committed relationships, recently dramatized by passage of federal and state laws against same-gender marriage; and the existence of sodomy laws in more than one-third of the states.


Are you saying this doesn't happen? and if it does it's something in our minds right?, it's not deliberatly done by prejudice? what did Kunjufu say when I asked him whether we could have a "gay and lesbian" section? NOT IN FORSEABLE F*CKING FUTURE! what does that tell you? what would a "gay and lesbian" section do to any of you straights? would we force you to read it? no, it's just plain , blatant,heterosexism! he refused because he decided that his views and beliefs on homosexuality are more valuable than mine! why? because he can!


I noticed as on the other thread when you are confronted head on in argument you switch tact and try something else.

get out of here! have you been reading me last year? I am not a quitter baby boy!

FB


 

 

FB





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mz_nigeria
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 Posted: Wednesday January 18th, 2006 11:29

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Rusengo wrote: The Trauma of Growing Up Gay

I guess it must be hard being black and gay, I've heard what you have to say, and I cannot agree with it, I don't belive that you are born homosexual, I still think that it is a choice that people make.  A choice that they are allowed to make, but it is still a choice nevertheless.  Probably, the reason so many black gay guys find it hard to live freely as a gay man in the black society, is because on the whole, the black race does not accept homosexuality as much as the white race.  Black people honour the old traditions of family more than the whites, this means a mother, father and children, not a father, a daddy and children.  That seems unnatural, so we do not accept it.  I think Rusengo, that no matter how you try and convince us by writing pages and pages on growing up gay, I think that homosexuality will still be seen as a choice made by the individual, depending on how they would like to live their lives, and an unnatural choice, so we will not accept it. (well I can't anyway)  Sorry bub.

Last edited on Wednesday January 18th, 2006 11:41 by mz_nigeria



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stick-upKid
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 Posted: Wednesday January 18th, 2006 12:26

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My 10 naira's worth.

--
So what if african ppl aren't as welcoming to homos as anglos- why should we be? We have other concerns that are far more important.

Why should we copy anglos in what ever social and moral descisions they make. 40 years ago mr anglo said it was illegal to be gay. Now mr anglo says its ok and were supposed to conform immediately. Bollocks to that.

Why is it that africans are so far up mr anglos arse in terms of following their every social trend - and exacibating them in many cases like teen pregnancy, divorce, family breakdown....why must we follow them. Why oh why.

I'm glad that Africans -on the whole- are rejecting homosexuality because it means that as Blackthought says; we have boundaries.

Its the same with paedophilia. Africans don't tolerate it and never will.

But you can imagine mr anglo in years to come legalising that too!



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 Posted: Wednesday January 18th, 2006 14:40

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stick-upKid wrote: Its the same with paedophilia. Africans don't tolerate it and never will.

But you can imagine mr anglo in years to come legalising that too!



 

Seen a worrying trend that seems to suggest that.



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Lucas...
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 Posted: Wednesday January 18th, 2006 14:46

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im really suprised that this thread hasnt been deleted...
kunjufu and i see u chasing down man for starting booty threads.. yet here we have a battyman thread no questions....
...
...
mmmm...
black people are becming cosmopolitian.. its now acceptable to be gay.... and talk openly about it...
mmm
kunj
u slipping



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mz_nigeria
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 Posted: Thursday January 19th, 2006 09:42

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Rusengo wrote: bighairlol battyman! Chi chi man!

Why are you laughing?, it's not funny, You were just talking about how 5 year olds are being traumatised by the words like battyman and chi chi man, when they probably do not even know what they mean.  Now you are saying them and laughing, what are you trying to do, redeem yourself? It's not working battyman. (you liked that didn't you, did it turn you on? well probably not because I'm female, damn, here's me thinking that I had a shot! bighairlol what a shame, wot a damn shame!)



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Justavoice
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 Posted: Friday January 20th, 2006 19:03

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Peacemaker wrote: Justavoice wrote: I keep hearing this argument, why do people worry about what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home.

7:00pm or 7:30pm, at home, telly's on and kids running around in the house, 5 year old little boy stops to see whats on tv. Emerdale farm is on. Little boy stops just in time to see two men kissing on tv.

Now are homosexuals really harmless ?

So now I have to explain to this 5 year old, that these people are wicked and when he gets older I will explain to him more why they are wicked and evil people. And that a man is made to be with a woman/ vica versa.

You stay there, Little leaven, leaven the whole lump.

 
Emmerdale farm?

What?

Playstations are your friend.

 

On a really serious note. Saying that to your five year old kid will have either the opposite effect or worse. Put it this way if he starts killing gay people when he's in his 20's, you'll know what time it is. Also if he becomes gay then you're partly to blame also. Trying to "influence" how a child should "feel" about something, and how a child should "behave" themselves are two different things altogether.

Beware what words you use, you'll be harming him.

Think I'm joking? I hate Potatoes, because I was forced to eat them when I was seven by some crazy dinner lady. It works in that way.

 

But hey, don't take my word for it.

@Peacemaker

lol, I didn't say I was watching it ?

but seriously, your point is taken and I did consider it, that to make too big a deal about it might bring about adverse results. So I ended up treating the matter like as if he had heard someone let go a swear word on tv. These things he will hear, and things he will see the trick is not to make too much of things. However what I am trying to show is, I was forced in one sense to put across to him that what he was seeing is wrong, as I believe that homosexuality is being pushed strongly in this country and by those high up to indoctrinate our children almost a type of recruitment drive. What we are seeing is not even aimed at us, but to normalise this behaviour and acceptance of this filth amongst the coming generations.

However I do take your point.


 



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 Posted: Friday January 20th, 2006 20:34

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@Russengo. I am glad you are back but you are not shedding much light on the issue. My concern is not people are gay. It bothers me not. What concerns me is the tactics and strategies people use to gain power or think they can use to gain power.

The use of science or psuedo scholarship to gain power and influence is the oldest move in the book and predictable. There are studies in the thousands on it and it often takes the same course.

Let's examine some of the statements you made and I am not going to go through the post as I think I can remember them when you said I can't remember to who that they were suffering or promoting heterosexualism. You then posted something which you believe gives authority to that and talks about heterosexual ideology.

Now this is so obvious what the intention is to and I do not use this words to cause offence but to be precise to move something which at the margins and abormal defined as deviating from the mean to use scientific terms eg that which is normal and regular and then attempt to problemitise it as if to change the status of the normal tendency of billions of people on the earth from the time god made the specieces to something which is abnormal.

Hence when the term ideology is used in that way that is exactly what it seeks to do. The fact that the majority of the people on the planet will naturally view homsexuality as a deviance from the norm is now changed to something else. What the US army does or does not do is actually besides the fundmental point.

These terms are used for very specific reasons. Often  for offensive tactical reasons. Let me give you an example in the previous discussion you cited with Kunjufu. He did not call you any names but challenged you. You were the ones throwing the labels not him and that is a classic example of how particular groups act when trying to gain influence and power when they are in a extremely weak position. So the language and theories you cite are used as ammunition for you to attack people and in many ways tranfer your angst and insecurities onto others.

That is what I find offensive not that you are gay or not. I don't care a dime. What I care about and won't have is people who think they are smart trying to muscle us with stale moves. At least impress us with something Fresh.

Look bro we lived through radical feminsts who thought they were the masters of that game and where are they now? All the labels and psuedo theories will not help insecure and angy people who think they can intimidate people because they are ooh so smart and we ooh so dumb.  Can call me mysoginist until their mouths are dry won't stop people like me from saying and doing exactly the same things until they not us get tired.

Can't hide the facts bro. You are a minority on this planet and all the notions you can conjure up will not change that. So if we sufffer from heterosexualism...so be it. The lusting after the black woman is godly and right and not something we should ever feel ashamed of. Long may it live....about heterosexualism like man have some kind of disease...

Kiss teeth...blktrainers 

FB 



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Rusengo
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 Posted: Friday January 20th, 2006 22:56

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FredB wrote: @Russengo. I am glad you are back but you are not shedding much light on the issue. My concern is not people are gay. It bothers me not. What concerns me is the tactics and strategies people use to gain power or think they can use to gain power.

The use of science or psuedo scholarship to gain power and influence is the oldest move in the book and predictable. There are studies in the thousands on it and it often takes the same course.

Let's examine some of the statements you made and I am not going to go through the post as I think I can remember them when you said I can't remember to who that they were suffering or promoting heterosexualism. You then posted something which you believe gives authority to that and talks about heterosexual ideology.

Now this is so obvious what the intention is to and I do not use this words to cause offence but to be precise to move something which at the margins and abormal defined as deviating from the mean to use scientific terms eg that which is normal and regular and then attempt to problemitise it as if to change the status of the normal tendency of billions of people on the earth from the time god made the specieces to something which is abnormal.

And who decides what is normal and what isn't it? Fred, you have the right to have views and beliefs on things, that is your prerogative, but when that right jeopardise the well-being and peace and freedom of someone else who deosn't share and live by them, that person at one point will fight back, you should know as a black man!

Hence when the term ideology is used in that way that is exactly what it seeks to do. The fact that the majority of the people on the planet will naturally view homsexuality as a deviance from the norm is now changed to something else.

Talking about majority, why are you here, what made you one day decide to register on BN, if not the need to belong like the rest of us, because sometimes as social beings humans feel the need to reach out to their own kind and rest, they feel the need of security,community and love, every creed,race,sexual orientaion is formed by humans and that is what I am trying to do as a black african man, I am tired of being invisible, I am tired of being an african that has to hide from his own people unless he gives up a part of his identity, I am tired of feeling ashamed of who I am, I am tired of seeing myself through other people's eyes not my own, my own people's eyes are disguted of who I am but when they fight for black rights, I see my colour and I am reminded, that they are my people, an apple never falls far from the tree. Africa is my tree!

 What the US army does or does not do is actually besides the fundmental point.

These terms are used for very specific reasons. Often  for offensive tactical reasons. Let me give you an example in the previous discussion you cited with Kunjufu. He did not call you any names but challenged you.

didn't he? Do you know how many times Kunjufu calls me stupid? I am used to it by now!

 You were the ones throwing the labels not him and that is a classic example of how particular groups act when trying to gain influence and power when they are in a extremely weak position. So the language and theories you cite are used as ammunition for you to attack people and in many ways tranfer your angst and insecurities onto others.

Angst! Fred don't play with words! please! because in some form we are all in this website angry whether you like it or not, otherwise we wouldn'y have this website or names like "Blackbeauty,Blackpower,African queen,...americans calling themselves Masai or whatever" we all are here to redeem ourselves from a self-hatred we carry from an early childhood when we discover that we are different, and that is what I am doing if you carefully read the title of this thread!

That is what I find offensive not that you are gay or not. I don't care a dime. What I care about and won't have is people who think they are smart trying to muscle us with stale moves. At least impress us with something Fresh.

I couldn't care less whether you think that I am stupid, impressive or boring, Fred! I am real, my pain is real, I have a dream like anybody else, I have a dream of seeing black gay people proud without parading amongst white people's "Mardi Gras" or white people's "Gay prides" but their own in their own, I dream to see them drop that toxic shame that they carried for long, that second class citizenship card they carry in their hearts within their communities, I hate to see them beg for love and not get it because they refused to drop a part of their identity! Trust me Fred if I wrote good english like you, je t'aurais prouver ce dont je suis capable,  I AM REAL MY MAN!!

Look bro we lived through radical feminsts who thought they were the masters of that game and where are they now? All the labels and psuedo theories will not help insecure and angy people who think they can intimidate people because they are ooh so smart and we ooh so dumb.  Can call me mysoginist until their mouths are dry won't stop people like me from saying and doing exactly the same things until they not us get tired.

You can b whatever you want, that is your problem, but what I know is that inthe 50's in a remote village , in Burundi, in the Heart of Africa, a beautiful young girl the eldest of 8 kids, travelled hundreds of miles to go to school and 30 years later, she was a highly respected headmistress of a highly respected private school because her father like her had the opportunity to go to school and unlearn what african sexism taught him as a child, that women are not allowed to go to school, that a woman's place is in the kitchen, that women don't eat meat,etc,... That woman was my mother! THANX TO FEMINISM!

Can't hide the facts bro. You are a minority on this planet and all the notions you can conjure up will not change that. So if we sufffer from heterosexualism...so be it.

Obviously, you do not follow the news! since the Stonewall riot up to now things have dramatically changed and trust me A Globe awards nomination for movies like "Brokeback Mountain" is nothing for me, the sky is the limit, my brother you'll hear me trust me! under the same name!very soon!

 The lusting after the black woman is godly and right and not something we should ever feel ashamed of.

Who said anything about feeling ashamed of black women? I think they are lovely creatures, they are my aunties, sisters, nieces, I love them, are you sure you're not the one who's insecure?

 Long may it live....about heterosexualism like man have some kind of disease...

Kiss teeth...blktrainers 

That's all you can do?

FB 



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 Posted: Saturday January 21st, 2006 20:15

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@Russengo . The problem I have when reflecting on your response is that it doesn't make sense and that is not unique to you but to many who want to argue a position, especially if it is from a minority position and it requires influencing others to change that status.

 

You said "And who decides what is normal and what isn't it? Fred, you have the right to have views and beliefs on things, that is your prerogative, but when that right jeopardise the well-being and peace and freedom of someone else who deosn't share and live by them, that person at one point will fight back, you should know as a black man"

 

You are not making sense. As I explained both in common sense and scientific sense normal is defined by the statistical mean of any phenomenon, that is to say the majority of any random distribution, whether it be intelligence, height sexual appetitie or how much television radio or books we consume.

So to contradict you we can define what is average or normal and it is not a very difficult process. We know from most authorattive western estimates a very small section of the population are homosexual and I would suggest if you moved to global scale we would be looking at something in between 2-3 per cent of humanity. For example Gregerson a Scandinavian sexual anthropologist notes in his studies of human sexuality across cultures that Africans have one of the lowest proclivities for homosexuality even though not unknown but nothing in terms of practice or scale as is known in Western European or Asian, oriental cultures where this is very well established and long time.

Now Gregerson is not a black man but from Scandinavia and is not there to do us many favours. Me personally I take the view that homosexuality is a product of genes and social conditions. Not nature or nurture as very few things are of that nature be it feminity or masculinity but both working simultaneously in complex ways.

Excuse me my views are stating the facts of the nature of society and its norms not jeopardising or attacking anyone. It is instructive that is how stating the truth of basic human behaviour is taken in that way and why I said you are promoting an ideology to make us seem abnormal or deviant which is what heterosexualism seeks to do. So if stating the facts are to be taken in that way then that illustrates the insecurity of your position or your person angst.

Shall I tell you a joke and something both Gregerson and other people such as black gay writers and activists Mercer and Julien said, that is the western white attitudes to sexuality and including white gays whereby every thing is reduced to sex which has caused such hostility to homosexuality which is unlike African attitudes to sex as continent wide we are not obsessed with sex of any kind and see it as normal and healthy.

So the same culture which produces images of women women naked plastered all over the place which is alien and anti woman and men as far as I am concerned is the same thing which shapes people's perceptions of westernised gay behaviour. Read what Mercer and Julien write about the white gay club scene and people are like dogs and will f**k anything that moves, going places to meet complete strangers to sex them when normal hetersexual men or women do not act in them ways.

So my friend you are hung by your associations not me or my kind.

You have nothing to fight back against my friend as I have a traditional Caribbean attitude to these things do what you want in your space it is not my or anybody business and plus more women for us. But don't come with your white western brazeness and then think you have to convert or revert me or proseltyse me so you can expand you spheres of acceptibility.

When you come here and start a threat and wanting to promote your lifestyle you have broken the traditional contract of how this goes and many of us will defend it to the death.

 

You said

"Talking about majority, why are you here, what made you one day decide to register on BN, if not the need to belong like the rest of us, because sometimes as social beings humans feel the need to reach out to their own kind and rest, they feel the need of security,community and love, every creed,race,sexual orientaion is formed by humans and that is what I am trying to do as a black african man, I am tired of being invisible, I am tired of being an african that has to hide from his own people unless he gives up a part of his identity, I am tired of feeling ashamed of who I am, I am tired of seeing myself through other people's eyes not my own, my own people's eyes are disguted of who I am but when they fight for black rights, I see my colour and I am reminded, that they are my people, an apple never falls far from the tree. Africa is my tree!"

What am i doing here. What has that got to do with any thing. I choose and take pride in affilliating with my people and particulary those of particular conciousness and particularly as an educator and activists it is a duty to be where my people are.

Who is stopping you from being here. Who is questioning you fundamental as an African. Not I or any others from what I can see. Who is saying you cannot be gay and AFrican? What are you suggesting that black people or Africans do not have gays. Well that is not my experience. So what are you talking about?

There are a million issues or topics you can engage with with your people and be no different than anybody else and be judged on your merits humour, style of personal qualities or lack of....

But if you are suggesting unless you cannot express your sexual orientation you cannot talk about football, music or anything in News and Politics then I suggest my friend you have the western white man's disease....BAD BAD BAD.

In others words your sexuality and related matters are the most important part of your being. I like most people can choose to introduce our sexuality etc into something or not. The world and god has no reason to appolgies for making the majority on the planet heterosexual eg normal. It is simply the basic terms of human engagement. Now of course if you are on the outside of whatever category defined as preferable that is not nice, but that is not unique to homosexuals. Imagine being very ordinary amongst people who admire physical bueaty as much as Africans do or preferable body shape and a whole heap of things, being very short in a culture that admires height.

People have their norms rightly or wrongly and they come from somewhere and if you are out of sinc with them society is very insensitive and at some times harsh but you will rarely change those things. Not saying not worth a struggle though.

 

You said " Do you know how many times Kunjufu calls me stupid? I am used to it by now!"

 

Well here is where the ability to read is helpful and failing that knowing and being able to judge character. Lets face the facts of life. If people are bueatiful in any group there must be ugly, for intelligence to exist there must be those who are a bit slow or simply do not make sense. I could take you around this Forum and point out people who one could reasonably call stupid. The fact I don't is neither here or there unless they get offensive and disrepectful and I have not treated them in such a manner then they open themselves up to being called stupid......

But remember my brother. I was following your debate with Kunjufu and you had no rational argument, none what soever and when challenged broke into your gay rights speech when that was not the issue.

 

You said "

Angst! Fred don't play with words! please! because in some form we are all in this website angry whether you like it or not, otherwise we wouldn'y have this website or names like "Blackbeauty,Blackpower,African queen,...americans calling themselves Masai or whatever" we all are here to redeem ourselves from a self-hatred we carry from an early childhood when we discover that we are different, and that is what I am doing if you carefully read the title of this thread!"

 

Are you a mind reader to know why all people are members of this institution? I suggest it is possible to say they all enjoy the benefits of the affilliation and contact they have with their people but beyond that neither you or I can say anymore. Furthermore what makes you think because you may be ridden with anger the majority of our members are. Me I have no anger because it is a pointless notion. Hey I like to reason with my people anger plays no role in that as a motivating factor. Think you are talking about yourself.

 

People choose screen names for all purposes and I see no connection to anger. The names you highlighted are related to pride. Does black pride mean anger? Well it does if your white or a coconut.

 

You said "

 

I have a dream of seeing black gay people proud without parading amongst white people's "Mardi Gras" or white people's "Gay prides" but their own in their own, I dream to see them drop that toxic shame that they carried for long, that second class citizenship card they carry in their hearts within their communities, I hate to see them beg for love and not get it because they refused to drop a part of their identity!

 

 Well that is going to be difficult because organised black gays are the enemies of our people who have always historically aligned themselves with the most racist sections of white people eg gays againist black people when they are not being used as f**king material for white gays.

 

Bro even Martin Luther Kings I had a Dream speech has more legs than yours because as I said black organised gays have always united with our enemies and some of us will never forget or forgive that. Treachery in war is treachery. At worse say nothing but to stand with the enemy and think some of us will ever forget.

 

Study what your bredrins did in the recent campaign led by Peter Tatchell and whose racist extremism  is something we have never ever seen given the hatred that man has for black people and black gays lined up with him. And they still failed because black people were not going to be pushed around by homosexuals of any colour.

 

So dream on brother about your dream unless you are prepared for us to cleanse those who aligned themselves so openly with our enemies. Same goes to a large number of the so called middle class and feminists too.

Regarding feminism you said

"You can b whatever you want, that is your problem, but what I know is that inthe 50's in a remote village , in Burundi, in the Heart of Africa, a beautiful young girl the eldest of 8 kids, travelled hundreds of miles to go to school and 30 years later, she was a highly respected headmistress of a highly respected private school because her father like her had the opportunity to go to school and unlearn what african sexism taught him as a child, that women are not allowed to go to school, that a woman's place is in the kitchen, that women don't eat meat,etc,... That woman was my mother! THANX TO FEMINISM!"

Well dear brother if that is your experience then all power to you. But I like most Africans whether from the Caribbean the southern States of the US or Europe and many African states eg Southern States in particular. Working fathers worked hard to educate their daughters and took pride in it. Sorry for you but where I come from men have been educating their daughters for centuries and we did not need white people or gay activists to liberate us.

Peace....

FB

 

 



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 Posted: Sunday January 22nd, 2006 01:02

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What is normal?

Questions.....Did he resign for

having a gay affair?

Having relations with a 'rent' boy?

 

 

 

 



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 Posted: Sunday January 22nd, 2006 11:39

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FredB wrote: @Russengo . The problem I have when reflecting on your response is that it doesn't make sense and that is not unique to you but to many who want to argue a position, especially if it is from a minority position and it requires influencing others to change that status.

 

You said "And who decides what is normal and what isn't it? Fred, you have the right to have views and beliefs on things, that is your prerogative, but when that right jeopardise the well-being and peace and freedom of someone else who deosn't share and live by them, that person at one point will fight back, you should know as a black man"

 

You are not making sense. As I explained both in common sense and scientific sense normal is defined by the statistical mean of any phenomenon, that is to say the majority of any random distribution, whether it be intelligence, height sexual appetitie or how much television radio or books we consume.

So to contradict you we can define what is average or normal and it is not a very difficult process. We know from most authorattive western estimates a very small section of the population are homosexual and I would suggest if you moved to global scale we would be looking at something in between 2-3 per cent of humanity. For example Gregerson a Scandinavian sexual anthropologist notes in his studies of human sexuality across cultures that Africans have one of the lowest proclivities for homosexuality even though not unknown but nothing in terms of practice or scale as is known in Western European or Asian, oriental cultures where this is very well established and long time.

 

Like you say there are gay propagandist, there are anti-gay propagandists, there has been thousands of scientifc researches that went out to prove that, it's something learnt and you obviously chose a scientific who agrees with you!



Now Gregerson is not a black man but from Scandinavia and is not there to do us many favours.

There are whites, asians,black people who share the same views on homosexuality, it has nothing to do with race; this guy just happens to agree with what you believe, that's all!

 Me personally I take the view that homosexuality is a product of genes and social conditions.

Researches have been done but up to now none of your theories has been accuretly proven anywhere! let's call it then "your opinion"

 Not nature or nurture as very few things are of that nature be it feminity or masculinity but both working simultaneously in complex ways.

Excuse me my views are stating the facts of the nature of society and its norms not jeopardising or attacking anyone. It is instructive that is how stating the truth of basic human behaviour is taken in that way and why I said you are promoting an ideology to make us seem abnormal or deviant which is what heterosexualism seeks to do.

 

I never claimed that anybody is deviant or abnormal, I am just fighting for my right to live as I feel is right and I refuse to surrender to laws and rules made by the majority whetehr consciously or not, to serve the majority just because I happen to come from the minority, my fight is for the majority to reconsider its laws and rethink its position on human nature, there are diversities in every being, things are not set in stone, years ago we were not allowed to marry, it looks like we are getting there, we will never give up!

 So if stating the facts are to be taken in that way then that illustrates the insecurity of your position or your person angst.

There can only be angst if I am refused to be who I want to be but when the majority is open to debate, I can't be angry because I know things progress, as I said we have come a long way, from being a disease to getting married!

Shall I tell you a joke and something both Gregerson and other people such as black gay writers and activists Mercer and Julien said, that is the western white attitudes to sexuality and including white gays whereby every thing is reduced to sex which has caused such hostility to homosexuality which is unlike African attitudes to sex as continent wide we are not obsessed with sex of any kind and see it as normal and healthy.

So the same culture which produces images of women women naked plastered all over the place which is alien and anti woman and men as far as I am concerned is the same thing which shapes people's perceptions of westernised gay behaviour. Read what Mercer and Julien write about the white gay club scene and people are like dogs and will f**k anything that moves, going places to meet complete strangers to sex them when normal hetersexual men or women do not act in them ways.

So my friend you are hung by your associations not me or my kind.

Nothing surprising here my friend! nothing whatsoever! classic "heterosexism", how many threads have we had people debating on self-hatred amongst blacks on BN? how many women come in here and complain about skin-bleaching,straight hair,black activists who end up marrying white chicks? my analogy is that the same thing is rampant whitin the "gay community" to a greater degree actually! how many times you will here people calling themselves "straight-acting" because they happen to be masculine, calling others "femmes", like some kind of competition of who is as close as possible to heterosexuals when we all actually  are the same we are attracetd to people of our own sex! this leads to self-hatred "heterosexuality" is seen like the thing to achieve, and when you can't ,you developp unhealthy sexual attitudes because you deep down hate who you are and your sexuality but can't help feel what you feel! Have you heard of internalised homophobia? this is one of the first thing gay people have to deal with when coming out and there are many homophobic gay writers out there and we know it! 

You have nothing to fight back against my friend as I have a traditional Caribbean attitude to these things do what you want in your space it is not my or anybody business and plus more women for us. But don't come with your white western brazeness and then think you have to convert or revert me or proseltyse me so you can expand you spheres of acceptibility.

White brazeness, I dont' think so! convert you! I couldn't care less what you think about who I am and what I do, my right to express myself and give a positive image of the culture I live in that I will fight for it, it's been done in white society now it's time for our gay black people within our own community!

When you come here and start a threat and wanting to promote your lifestyle you have broken the traditional contract of how this goes and many of us will defend it to the death.

I don't have a "lifestyle", I have a life, I do everything you do like all human beings. Yet again you talk about tradition! what tradition? do you know the tradition of where I come from? defend whatever you want to defend, I will defend mine!

 

You said

"Talking about majority, why are you here, what made you one day decide to register on BN, if not the need to belong like the rest of us, because sometimes as social beings humans feel the need to reach out to their own kind and rest, they feel the need of security,community and love, every creed,race,sexual orientaion is formed by humans and that is what I am trying to do as a black african man, I am tired of being invisible, I am tired of being an african that has to hide from his own people unless he gives up a part of his identity, I am tired of feeling ashamed of who I am, I am tired of seeing myself through other people's eyes not my own, my own people's eyes are disguted of who I am but when they fight for black rights, I see my colour and I am reminded, that they are my people, an apple never falls far from the tree. Africa is my tree!"

What am i doing here. What has that got to do with any thing. I choose and take pride in affilliating with my people and particulary those of particular conciousness and particularly as an educator and activists it is a duty to be where my people are.

exactly! so when you say "particular consciousness" the creator of these kind of websites need to be clear about it and be specific of what kind of african people they want in here! because when you talk about blacks,africans, I meet the criteria and I will come and speak my "consciousness! regardless of the majority's

Who is stopping you from being here. Who is questioning you fundamental as an African. Not I or any others from what I can see. Who is saying you cannot be gay and AFrican? What are you suggesting that black people or Africans do not have gays. Well that is not my experience. So what are you talking about?

There are a million issues or topics you can engage with with your people and be no different than anybody else and be judged on your merits humour, style of personal qualities or lack of....

But if you are suggesting unless you cannot express your sexual orientation you cannot talk about football, music or anything in News and Politics then I suggest my friend you have the western white man's disease....BAD BAD BAD.

and you still want me to explain to you, what is "heterosexism" when you have just given yourself the definition? why is it OK to have talks about women, men, f**king,dating in both the women and men sections but if I come in here I have to make sure to not talk about a part of me that is as important as the rest of who I am? when I ask for a "gay and lesbian section, what do I get? and you say that I judge people by association! sometimes I do and I am right! what would it do to you if we had that section?  and why am I not allowed to be different? I don't give a flying monkeys what are the issues talked about in here, this is one issue that concerns me since I was born,I told you, my pain is real! and that's what I talk about!

In others words your sexuality and related matters are the most important part of your being. I like most people can choose to introduce our sexuality etc into something or not. The world and god has no reason to appolgies for making the majority on the planet heterosexual eg normal. It is simply the basic terms of human engagement. Now of course if you are on the outside of whatever category defined as preferable that is not nice, but that is not unique to homosexuals. Imagine being very ordinary amongst people who admire physical bueaty as much as Africans do or preferable body shape and a whole heap of things, being very short in a culture that admires height.

People have their norms rightly or wrongly and they come from somewhere and if you are out of sinc with them society is very insensitive and at some times harsh but you will rarely change those things. Not saying not worth a struggle though.

 Good! Let me fight my battle then!cos' I ain't givin' up!

 

You said " Do you know how many times Kunjufu calls me stupid? I am used to it by now!"

 

Well here is where the ability to read is helpful and failing that knowing and being able to judge character. Lets face the facts of life. If people are bueatiful in any group there must be ugly, for intelligence to exist there must be those who are a bit slow or simply do not make sense. I could take you around this Forum and point out people who one could reasonably call stupid. The fact I don't is neither here or there unless they get offensive and disrepectful and I have not treated them in such a manner then they open themselves up to being called stupid......

Oh! give me a break! My mother tongue is Kirundi, my second official language is french since I was three years old, do you think I am going to convey as well as you my thoughts without losing some of my arguments because I have to translate form two languages at the same time?



But remember my brother. I was following your debate with Kunjufu and you had no rational argument, none what soever and when challenged broke into your gay rights speech when that was not the issue.

Oh! the "homophobia" part?clp),I apologise It took me a while to find words like" bigotry and intolerance" sorry! don't kill meblkbowdown.gif" ALT="blkbowdown">.gif" ALT="blkbowdown.gif" ALT="blkbowdown">">.gif" ALT="blkbowdown.gif" ALT="blkbowdown">.gif" ALT="blkbowdown.gif" ALT="blkbowdown">">">

 

You said "

Angst! Fred don't play with words! please! because in some form we are all in this website angry whether you like it or not, otherwise we wouldn'y have this website or names like "Blackbeauty,Blackpower,African queen,...americans calling themselves Masai or whatever" we all are here to redeem ourselves from a self-hatred we carry from an early childhood when we discover that we are different, and that is what I am doing if you carefully read the title of this thread!"

 

Are you a mind reader to know why all people are members of this institution? I suggest it is possible to say they all enjoy the benefits of the affilliation and contact they have with their people but beyond that neither you or I can say anymore. Furthermore what makes you think because you may be ridden with anger the majority of our members are. Me I have no anger because it is a pointless notion. Hey I like to reason with my people anger plays no role in that as a motivating factor. Think you are talking about yourself.

Oh! really? that's why we have Malcom X wannabes like somebody I don't want to mention, was there anybody more angry than Malcom x on this planet?

 

People choose screen names for all purposes and I see no connection to anger. The names you highlighted are related to pride. Does black pride mean anger? Well it does if your white or a coconut.

How many times do you see "white pride"? in usernames? besides, why do you need to to proclaim your pride of being black, if somwhere in you there has not been a sense of angst or frustration?

 

You said "

 

I have a dream of seeing black gay people proud without parading amongst white people's "Mardi Gras" or white people's "Gay prides" but their own in their own, I dream to see them drop that toxic shame that they carried for long, that second class citizenship card they carry in their hearts within their communities, I hate to see them beg for love and not get it because they refused to drop a part of their identity!

 

 Well that is going to be difficult because organised black gays are the enemies of our people who have always historically aligned themselves with the most racist sections of white people eg gays againist black people when they are not being used as f**king material for white gays. 

well, it's statements like these that unfortunately drive them to align themselves with the whites because when you say our people, I feel included because I am african but when I am with you , I feel excluded, what am i then? why do you say you are fighting for my right but turn around and ask me to be the black you want me to be? and yet I hear you sing songs like:" We refuse to be what you want us to be, we are what we are" talk about double standard!

 

Bro even Martin Luther Kings I had a Dream speech has more legs than yours because as I said black organised gays have always united with our enemies and some of us will never forget or forgive that. Treachery in war is treachery. At worse say nothing but to stand with the enemy and think some of us will ever forget.

Listen Fred, I prefer to call you by that instead of "bro" because I ain't , i ain't because I am the wrong "black", the wrong "african" I am Damilola Taylor's bro not yours, he  allegdly died because he was the wrong brother! There is no treachery in war because we are not fighting the same war, because as long as you look at me like the way you at the enemy, as long as you chase me like the way KKKs treated blacks, I couldn't care less what you forgive or what you forget! I will fight for tolerance not your brotherly love cos' you are not able to have it! so let's not misuse words!

 

Study what your bredrins did in the recent campaign led by Peter Tatchell and whose racist extremism  is something we have never ever seen given the hatred that man has for black people and black gays lined up with him. And they still failed because black people were not going to be pushed around by homosexuals of any colour.

those are gays who chose to fight the "gay war" because they were tired to feel "invisible" which is one of the articles in this thread! I cannot blame them nor applaud them cos' it's a dilemma and they chose the battle they feel is right for them, as you can see you started out by calling them "black gays" but at the end they were " homosexuals of colour", who's a treator? you or Tatchell? aren't they your people? do you think that just because I am gay, people will not see that we share something? I can hide my sexuality but my colour i can't, so whenever those black gays align themselves with the enemy, you have failed them! in other words you have failed altogether!

 

So dream on brother about your dream unless you are prepared for us to cleanse those who aligned themselves so openly with our enemies. Same goes to a large number of the so called middle class and feminists too.

Regarding feminism you said

"You can b whatever you want, that is your problem, but what I know is that inthe 50's in a remote village , in Burundi, in the Heart of Africa, a beautiful young girl the eldest of 8 kids, travelled hundreds of miles to go to school and 30 years later, she was a highly respected headmistress of a highly respected private school because her father like her had the opportunity to go to school and unlearn what african sexism taught him as a child, that women are not allowed to go to school, that a woman's place is in the kitchen, that women don't eat meat,etc,... That woman was my mother! THANX TO FEMINISM!"

Well dear brother if that is your experience then all power to you. But I like most Africans whether from the Caribbean the southern States of the US or Europe and many African states eg Southern States in particular. Working fathers worked hard to educate their daughters and took pride in it. Sorry for you but where I come from men have been educating their daughters for centuries and we did not need white people or gay activists to liberate us.

Oh! fred! don't be silly, are you saying that if your ancestors were not taken as slaves you wouldn't have had the same experience as my mother? you had more access to education because you lived in white dominated countries that's all, it wasn't any special ability you had or superiority to other blacks on the continent, don't flatter yourself, we know that countries in the south of Africa had more contact with whites than inland countries! and you know that education was introduced to blacks by whites, wasn't it? In any case my point is sometimes feminists or gay activists  are to applaud, I am not  a feminist because I am not a woman but I sympathise with them.

Peace....

FB

 

 



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 Posted: Sunday January 22nd, 2006 16:20

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@Russengo said

Oh! fred! don't be silly, are you saying that if your ancestors were not taken as slaves you wouldn't have had the same experience as my mother? you had more access to education because you lived in white dominated countries that's all, it wasn't any special ability you had or superiority to other blacks on the continent, don't flatter yourself, we know that countries in the south of Africa had more contact with whites than inland countries! and you know that education was introduced to blacks by whites, wasn't it? In any case my point is sometimes feminists or gay activists  are to applaud, I am not  a feminist because I am not a woman but I sympathise with them".

What? Me being silly. No I think you are being because you are misinformed and then due to ignorance jump to conclusions. Brother I come from the Caribbean where they have been educating their women for centuries and nothing to do with white people and in fact education at that time was very exclusive and extremely costly. So you are jumping to conclusions both about other societies.

The demands for women to be educated in many countries has absolutely nothing to do with feminism. When in Angloa, Mozambigue, Guinea, South Africa pushed for women to be educated what did that have to do with femiminsm? Nothing.

So I think you have a limited understanding of the Black world and even the continent you claim to hail from. And futhermore the rights of education for women is not associated with radical femimists but liberals and my post makes it crystal clear which camp I am talking about who have contributed nothing to our women.

Study African women's issues on the continent and you will not find one radical femimist amongst them or in the Caribbean for that matter.

FB



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 Posted: Sunday January 22nd, 2006 19:23

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@Russengo..You are hiding your comments in the text of my posts and not distinguishing your comments so I did not see these.

You said:

1."Like you say there are gay propagandist, there are anti-gay propagandists, there has been thousands of scientifc researches that went out to prove that, it's something learnt and you obviously chose a scientific who agrees with you!".

 

For starters you are incorrect regardig to my reference to Gregerson. His is a world authority on his subject and  comes from liberal Scandinavia so it is your prejudice and pressumption to believe his is anti gay. Wrong. Why would the man show homosexuality around the world and a range of unheard of tribes  in places in the Americas we have never heard of and then lie where Africa is concerned?. And that makes sense to you? 

If you are unable to think rationally how the hell are you going to influence people with your arguments. Furthermore, I didn't pick Gregerson out, I have had his work for twenty years and it was a present and something I never thought I would read or need.

By the way I was doing some work on this very issue and went to the leading libraries in this country and I could find new studies on homosexuality in Asia the Orient, Japan and all over but nothing on Africa. I had to go home and dig out my 20 year old study by Gregerson .

Hey have you ever noticed in Peter Tatchells strategy of attempting to attack Afrocentrics and the dominant argument against homosexuality he has to make things up? Because none of his gay experts can produce any significant evidence that homosexuality was wide spread in Africa, particulary when you compare it to other parts of the world. Hence why he has to laughably argue that Shaka was gay. Why because Shaka was not a womanist, and had one woman and more interested in power.

So if black men are not shagging everything one with two legs then they must be gay. Right? Which is why he tried to the same trick but attempted to suggest Malcolm X was gay, because there is little serious evidence to contradict Gregerson who is a world authority, not a mickey mouse gay with a masters degree with a clear political agenda.

So if you are suggesting that I am as dishonest as you which I take offence too because i deal with the evidence not hide it or bury it but the facts as they are known. What you are calling evidence is propaganda. Information pulled together for a specicif and political purpose and used in that way.

Present your own studies because if most of your white gay friends who are more resourced than you can't I doubt if you can. I can look at the stuff you posted as authorative evidence and take it a part systematically and with ease. You my friend would not be able to do that with Gregerson because if so white gays with better education than you would have.

2. You said "Researches have been done but up to now none of your theories has been accuretly proven anywhere! let's call it then "your opinion"

Of course it is my opion but it is more reasonable and balanced one than yours. You said sexuality is a product of either nature or nurture. I said it is a combination of both and you say that is my opinion. Yep but probably more closer to the truth than the weak nature or nurture position you were advancing.

But the genetic link to what some have called a gay gene has been found to run in males in families intergenerationally but randomly. But the studies are too small.

3. You said "I never claimed that anybody is deviant or abnormal, I am just fighting for my right to live as I feel is right and I refuse to surrender to laws and rules made by the majority whetehr consciously or not, to serve the majority just because I happen to come from the minority, my fight is for the majority to reconsider its laws and rethink its position on human nature, there are diversities in every being, things are not set in stone, years ago we were not allowed to marry, it looks like we are getting there, we will never give up!"

Actually you said or implied there was no such thing as normal and I challenged and proved you wrong of course there is so don't change your tune now and deny it. Oh god not the diversity argument. Bro diversity yes, but diversity exists within all categories and that does not change the fact that dominant groups dominate and smaller minorities generally don't in democratic situations.

You can have divergent sexual tastes within a category of heterosexual males but they are still hetersexual males. You have swollowed white popullist notions of diversity to think every thing and anything goes and somehow there is no dominant or subordinate tendencies. Black people are in a society with diverse groups but we are dominated or in a weak relative position. So what are you talking about then.....? Diversity theorist don't like to talk about power and who has it and who hasn't because it makes their theories look stupid.

The problem you have is an unescapable one given you are a minute minority and under any political or social system you will never have the power through fair and just means to impose yourself on the majority. Women are fifty per cent or more of the population so basic principles in many instances dictate that they are important in influencing whatever outcome. But that does not apply to you, and take a second to think what system or process have you known in human kind where a small minority can impose itself on a large minority through fair means. Therein lays your dilema.

You can fight all you want, but if you are outgunned and out numbered at every turn you ain't winning jack and act too out of line and you will bring the wrath of the majority down on you and then you will know what real pressure is.

4. You said "heterosexuality" is seen like the thing to achieve, and when you can't ,you developp unhealthy sexual attitudes because you deep down hate who you are and your sexuality but can't help feel what you feel! Have you heard of internalised homophobia? this is one of the first thing gay people have to deal with when coming out and there are many homophobic gay writers out there and we know it! 

I appreciate the possible outcomes of those dyanamics, but there is not any one response to any one phenomenon and gays like other minorities have to develop different strategies to counter act the negative consequences of what you describe without the presumptiousness and the audacity of thinking you can impose yourself on the majority. That is not going to work.

5. You said "White brazeness, I dont' think so! convert you! I couldn't care less what you think about who I am and what I do, my right to express myself and give a positive image of the culture I live in that I will fight for it, it's been done in white society now it's time for our gay black people within our own community!

6. I hate dishonesty and intellecutal dishonesty in situations like this. What was your objective for strarting this thread? Was it for your own personal consumption? No, it was an attempt to articulate your pro gay agenda and it has failed. If I was agreeing with you along with others you would be saying something else. So be honest with yourself.

7. You said "

and you still want me to explain to you, what is "heterosexism" when you have just given yourself the definition? why is it OK to have talks about women, men, f**king,dating in both the women and men sections but if I come in here I have to make sure to not talk about a part of me that is as important as the rest of who I am? when I ask for a "gay and lesbian section, what do I get? and you say that I judge people by association! sometimes

No you are wrong again, heterosexualism used by politcally motivated gays is an attempt to problemitise normal behaviour, majority behaviour. Of course it should be allowed for males and females to have threads about relationship and emotional or sexual matters; especially if constructive.

These are normal and god given tendencies within the majority  and what most black people want. You can't just think you can take what white people take as norm and bring it amongst black people who you may not know are different and culturally especially.

We also have a duty to the young growing up in madness to draw a clear cultural line between us and them. That is far more important than upsetting regretfully a small number of black gays.

FBconfused3

 

 

 



 



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 Posted: Monday January 23rd, 2006 11:56

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FredB wrote: @Russengo..You are hiding your comments in the text of my posts and not distinguishing your comments so I did not see these.

You said:

1."Like you say there are gay propagandist, there are anti-gay propagandists, there has been thousands of scientifc researches that went out to prove that, it's something learnt and you obviously chose a scientific who agrees with you!".

 

For starters you are incorrect regardig to my reference to Gregerson. His is a world authority on his subject and  comes from liberal Scandinavia so it is your prejudice and pressumption to believe his is anti gay. Wrong. Why would the man show homosexuality around the world and a range of unheard of tribes  in places in the Americas we have never heard of and then lie where Africa is concerned?. And that makes sense to you? 

 

My question is why do you choose the one who's gonna be in your line of thoughts because you clearly are, in your afrocentric attitude, try to imply that Homosexuality is not as prevalent in Africa as elsewhere to prove that, it's something learned. Do you know how many studies have been done on it and surprise you choose the one who's gonna agree with you! And just because studies have not been done on Africa's homosexuality it doesn't mean we don't exist, because I am here and I am african, also how are you gonna study something that's taboo? if a society is not open and honest  about a sexual attitude how are you gonna study something you can't point your finger on?



If you are unable to think rationally how the hell are you going to influence people with your arguments. Furthermore, I didn't pick Gregerson out, I have had his work for twenty years and it was a present and something I never thought I would read or need.

By the way I was doing some work on this very issue and went to the leading libraries in this country and I could find new studies on homosexuality in Asia the Orient, Japan and all over but nothing on Africa. I had to go home and dig out my 20 year old study by Gregerson .



Hey have you ever noticed in Peter Tatchells strategy of attempting to attack Afrocentrics and the dominant argument against homosexuality he has to make things up? Because none of his gay experts can produce any significant evidence that homosexuality was wide spread in Africa, particulary when you compare it to other parts of the world. Hence why he has to laughably argue that Shaka was gay. Why because Shaka was not a womanist, and had one woman and more interested in power.

Your guess can only be as good as his  if he hasn't got any evidences, have you got evidences that he was not?

So if black men are not shagging everything one with two legs then they must be gay. Right? Which is why he tried to the same trick but attempted to suggest Malcolm X was gay,

Again, in your twisted homophobic mind any black hero has to be in your mind something that you want him to be, whatever you know about those two, you read, you have no evidences on what they did in their privacy, so Tatchell can as well be right like you can be wrong!

 because there is little serious evidence to contradict Gregerson who is a world authority, not a mickey mouse gay with a masters degree with a clear political agenda.

This is a weak argument because all I know about this guy you talk about is from you and as long as I haven't read for myself what he says about homosexuality and whether it corresponds to the way I was brought up and the experiences of gay africans in Africa, your argument is irrelelvent because it's your interpretation and you are trying to prove that Africa is somehow immune to human behaviours found everywhere in the world.


So if you are suggesting that I am as dishonest as you which I take offence too because i deal with the evidence not hide it or bury it but the facts as they are known. What you are calling evidence is propaganda. Information pulled together for a specicif and political purpose and used in that way.

you cannot call me anything up to now because the same thing can be said about you, you are repeating a scientific I have never heard of in your own words, how can anyone take your arguments objectively when initially I know your positon on homosexuality and heterosexism and all you trying to do is prove that's the way it has to be and I am saying No!

Present your own studies because if most of your white gay friends who are more resourced than you can't I doubt if you can. I can look at the stuff you posted as authorative evidence and take it a part systematically and with ease. You my friend would not be able to do that with Gregerson because if so white gays with better education than you would have.

Here we go again, just because you're a fan of him doesn't mean he's without any criticism or flaws in his analysis, I can only respond to you about him if I read him so this is pointless whether world hero or whatever!

2. You said "Researches have been done but up to now none of your theories has been accuretly proven anywhere! let's call it then "your opinion"

Of course it is my opion but it is more reasonable and balanced one than yours.

How?

 You said sexuality is a product of either nature or nurture.

This my opinion I may be wrong or right and it applies both to heterosexuality and homosexuality in my opinion!

 I said it is a combination of both and you say that is my opinion.

And in your opinion, does this only apply for gays or straights only, if it's for both so what is the issue? why would any sexuality be treated differently when it's constructed the same as the majority's? it's like kill the left handed because they are the minority!

 Yep but probably more closer to the truth than the weak nature or nurture position you were advancing.

How weak? elaborate!

But the genetic link to what some have called a gay gene has been found to run in males in families intergenerationally but randomly. But the studies are too small.

And by "small" we don't take those studies into account do we?

3. You said "I never claimed that anybody is deviant or abnormal, I am just fighting for my right to live as I feel is right and I refuse to surrender to laws and rules made by the majority whetehr consciously or not, to serve the majority just because I happen to come from the minority, my fight is for the majority to reconsider its laws and rethink its position on human nature, there are diversities in every being, things are not set in stone, years ago we were not allowed to marry, it looks like we are getting there, we will never give up!"

Actually you said or implied there was no such thing as normal and I challenged and proved you wrong of course there is so don't change your tune now and deny it.

You proved f*ck all my friend! just because 10% of the population is left handed doesn't mean the majority is normal and the rest are not! that's what I meant when I said how do you define normal?

 Oh god not the diversity argument. Bro diversity yes, but diversity exists within all categories and that does not change the fact that dominant groups dominate and smaller minorities generally don't in democratic situations.

Yes! diversity, and don't use the "majority" card because I know all that but it doen't make it right and doesn't stop people fighting! Rwanda is overpopulated and 85% are hutus and the tutsis refugees were not allowed to come back because apparently there was no place left to live on, they were 15% before the genocide,more than  800.000 of those 15% were killed in 94, did that stop them to  fight and go back just becaue the majority said so, hell no! they are there now, living together whether hutus like it or not!

You can have divergent sexual tastes within a category of heterosexual males but they are still hetersexual males.

Weak again! because the same thing can be said about homosexuals, you can have divergent tastes withing a category of homosexual males but they are still homosexual males. see?

 You have swollowed white popullist notions of diversity to think every thing and anything goes and somehow there is no dominant or subordinate tendencies. Black people are in a society with diverse groups but we are dominated or in a weak relative position. So what are you talking about then.....? Diversity theorist don't like to talk about power and who has it and who hasn't because it makes their theories look stupid.

Maybe! but that doesn't stop black activits do what they do, does it? and since the 50's I'd say things have improved considerably to the way blacks are treated and seen, so why would gay activists give up?

The problem you have is an unescapable one given you are a minute minority and under any political or social system you will never have the power through fair and just means to impose yourself on the majority. Women are fifty per cent or more of the population so basic principles in many instances dictate that they are important in influencing whatever outcome. But that does not apply to you, and take a second to think what system or process have you known in human kind where a small minority can impose itself on a large minority through fair means. Therein lays your dilema.

You then agree that society is consciously "heterosexist" because if you know that and you have the power to change but don't, you are consciouly discriminating me. where is integrity? I know that we are a minority but it doesn't mean that I'll have to surrender just because you outnumber us and certainly when you refuse my right knowingly on the base of us being minute.

You can fight all you want, but if you are outgunned and out numbered at every turn you ain't winning jack and act too out of line and you will bring the wrath of the majority down on you and then you will know what real pressure is.

The argument here is does a minority have to suffer just because they are minorities, if you a member of the majority is aware of that injustice what are you doing to stop that if you have any integrity and honesty in you? if you then choose to do nothing, I will fight to the last drop!

4. You said "heterosexuality" is seen like the thing to achieve, and when you can't ,you developp unhealthy sexual attitudes because you deep down hate who you are and your sexuality but can't help feel what you feel! Have you heard of internalised homophobia? this is one of the first thing gay people have to deal with when coming out and there are many homophobic gay writers out there and we know it! 

I appreciate the possible outcomes of those dyanamics, but there is not any one response to any one phenomenon and gays like other minorities have to develop different strategies to counter act the negative consequences of what you describe without the presumptiousness and the audacity of thinking you can impose yourself on the majority. That is not going to work.

I still want to know, what does all this imposing thing come from? why do I have to explain myself to anybody? the funny  thing is you are aware of the mistreatement and yet in your evil homophobic mind you support that!why don't you be the majority and leave us alone? why do I need to be the majority for you to be happy? doesn't that say a lot about some of you? and if that's how the world is, well we will keep on!

5. You said "White brazeness, I dont' think so! convert you! I couldn't care less what you think about who I am and what I do, my right to express myself and give a positive image of the culture I live in that I will fight for it, it's been done in white society now it's time for our gay black people within our own community!

6. I hate dishonesty and intellecutal dishonesty in situations like this. What was your objective for strarting this thread? Was it for your own personal consumption? No, it was an attempt to articulate your pro gay agenda and it has failed. If I was agreeing with you along with others you would be saying something else. So be honest with yourself.

My objective was to express what i went through growing up as a gay  african child, to do it on an african website for africans cos' that's who I am so that other gay africans like me can come and do the same and maybe some open-minded people in here can see that their hatred and fear are IRRATIONAL and change it, and hopefully some of you who are raising gay children although you don' know it, can treat them better than I was treated! that's how a society evolve, no repeating mistakes through stubborness!

7. You said "

and you still want me to explain to you, what is "heterosexism" when you have just given yourself the definition? why is it OK to have talks about women, men, f**king,dating in both the women and men sections but if I come in here I have to make sure to not talk about a part of me that is as important as the rest of who I am? when I ask for a "gay and lesbian section, what do I get? and you say that I judge people by association! sometimes

No you are wrong again, heterosexualism used by politcally motivated gays is an attempt to problemitise normal behaviour, majority behaviour. Of course it should be allowed for males and females to have threads about relationship and emotional or sexual matters; especially if constructive.

You really are unbelievable, that's exactly what I am talking about when I say "heterosexism" it's not to problematise you, it's something you do in your subconscious, what is constructive? and by "males and"females" am I not included? do I not have realtionships. emotions, sexual matters? unless it's about heterosexual relationships it can't constructive, right?

These are normal and god given tendencies

Here we go again, we are not gonna go into religion now, are we?

 within the majority  and what most black people want. You can't just think you can take what white people take as norm and bring it amongst black people who you may not know are different and culturally especially.

At last, your true colours come out, you are so intoxicated by "racism" and anything that doesn't go with what you believe is the white man's fault, and by mistreating those of your people who happen to be different to you, you forget that you are feeidng  that same thing you call the"enemy", pathetic!

We also have a duty to the young growing up in madness to draw a clear cultural line between us and them. That is far more important than upsetting regretfully a small number of black gays.

I bet those who killed "Damilola taylor" will agree with you! if only they'd have upsetted him ,not kill him!

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 Posted: Monday January 23rd, 2006 13:23

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@Russengo said "




"My question is why do you choose the one who's gonna be in your line of thoughts because you clearly are, in your afrocentric attitude, try to imply that Homosexuality is not as prevalent in Africa as elsewhere to prove that, it's something learned. Do you know how many studies have been done on it and surprise you choose the one who's gonna agree with you! And just because studies have not been done on Africa's homosexuality it doesn't mean we don't exist, because I am here and I am african, also how are you gonna study something that's taboo? if a society is not open and honest  about a sexual attitude how are you gonna study something you can't point your finger on?"

----------------------------------------------------

Bro man oh man. I am not dissing you but you should really read what people say it actually saves time and stops us going around in circles. One of the reason a man can get pissed on these Forums is often the basics actually fail too many.

First, if you read what I said it is not me being biased in what I select which is insulting. If as I said Outrage for years who have attempted to persue their agenda in our community have not been able to find quality academic and scholarly support to destroy the argument of those who say homosexuality is essentially a white man's disease, their arguments not mine. What does that show you? They have contacts all over the damn place, in universities, publishers you name it but they still can't present it and have to come with foolishness that Shaka or Malcolm X were homosexuals.

Brother let me be blunt and upset some of our people who don't like education. I am a trained anthropologist who attended one of the world elite institutions of this discipline where I studied amongst other things feminist structural anthropology under one of the best in the business but an outright man hater.

I subscribe to anthropolgocial and sociological electronic journals at a cost of hundreds of pounds a year. I just click a button and all the best research in many key areas are at my finger tips.

I just came back from Jamaica amongt other places to attend conferences on matters of anthropology and popular culture to finish some work I am doing for publication. Futhermore, the people who attend those things are world experts of all colours and shades.

Let me tell you about academia, if there was some major quality study on African homosexuality that would not be gathering dust, but in the middle of a bidding war with publishers for the best price and best deal. We are not in the business of burying or hiding powerful and important information or data; unless that information is clearly harmful to the research targets or communities in question and that is about ethical and professional responsibilities.

Now as I have said if that is not good enough for you, please publish the information you claim I and a whole international profession are hiding.

You see some very simple questions have to be asked. If scholars can find homosexuality in their faces all around the globe why is it in one of the largest population centres on the planet they can only find little scraps of evidence.

I at no point have ever said and in fact I have written professionally on the contrary that there is homosexuality in Africa eg the Zande of central Africa but that was minute and a response to very very unique circumstances eg the ruling male and female elite yamming up the majority of eligible women.

Now even if we want to get into a debate whether extreme circumstances which led to homosexual activities is the same as homosexuality and there is a major argument on that issue that one does not translate to another; especially as it was very short lived and under very abnormal circumstances. Tribes in South Africa permitted homosexual activity amongst women even though the majority did not take it up, again in extreme circumstances when they were literally no men of prime age availabe and they went on very long military expeditions or elsewhere on the continent lasting years.

Gregerson points these things out. But he also says how uncommon they are given the size and thousands of tribal and clan groups which made up pre-western Africa.

This is not the case when we examine other societies. You then may say well Africans were hiding it. Well why were other nations or groups or sub groups amongst other societies not hiding it? That raises even more questions to suggest that homosexuality was not tolerated even if it as all authorative opinion suggest was an extremely rare phenonmenon, unlike amongst Arab muslim many who were flaming gay and love man to scorn but don't ever call them that because they will kill you stone dead.

I think if homosexuality is largely genetic then there must be some distribution amongst Africans, however that does not mean that distribution is wide spread or any thing compared to others.

Also it does not mean distribution or the genetic or whatever component is static and in fact many argue it can become more dormant. Madhubutti has been saying for years the rise in homosexuality is abnormal amongst black males. If we carried out comparative research I bet my life you would find much higher levels of homosexuality amongst African-Americans than Caribbeans because I or nobody else has noticed any outward rise. What is there is there but not in the US case, which suggest as many have always argued social factors are a key variable in why some become homosexuals, because it is not a phenomenon which is constant. Meaning it can decrease or decline.

Let me illustrate something that has puzzled me for years. Look how many sexual serial killers black people produce world wide and the size of our population compared to Western Europe and America which are very small populations in comparions. Hardly any....

In fact there is some head case killing Mexican women on the border like it is joke. They have had mad Russians killing women in the hundreds and doing all kinds of ungodly things to them. This one Russian I think holds the record for the numbers he subjected to his depravity.

 Everything we know in social science, psychology or criminology cannot explain this, but we know it is a fact.

The point I am making is that despite us all being humans there is a greater proclivity be it genetic, psychologically and culturally for particular behaviour according to different cultural and ethnic groups.

I see no reason why similar explanations cannot exist for homosexuality. Not that we do not have African homosexuals, who are you trying to kid. The white lesbian feminists had a Nigerian sister Femi somethnig and a very bueatiful sister I have to say not that it is relevent but have to big up same way, who was their front woman and black token for years. So what are you chatting. I have homosexuals in my country walking around the place and seen an American influenced transvestite walking around and our people did not bat an eyelid. They think the US has just turned that one mad....that is where he went and came back as a woman so to speak even though everybody knew he was gay and blantantly so and girlish as a child.

FB

 

 

 

 





 

























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 Posted: Monday January 23rd, 2006 14:10

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@Russengo. You keep hiding comments within my text and I keep missing them as I only pop in quickly during working breaks. You see I use you argument to show other black people how you or particular groups of black people think.

You said "

Your guess can only be as good as his  if he hasn't got any evidences, have you got evidences that he was not?

So if black men are not shagging everything one with two legs then they must be gay. Right? Which is why he tried to the same trick but attempted to suggest Malcolm X was gay,

Again, in your twisted homophobic mind any black hero has to be in your mind something that you want him to be, whatever you know about those two, you read, you have no evidences on what they did in their privacy, so Tatchell can as well be right like you can be wrong!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you know why people like you always fail to influence or impress black people because most of you are ignorant of the very thing you claim to stand for or believe. I know nothing  about sleeping with men or the same sex but I know how they politically and strategically operate.

Have you read Tatchells official CV I have a copy and on it it starts with two columns one with what the gay press and its supporters say about him in headlines the other what his detractors say about him including leading national papers.

One thing all his enemies say about him is his is un unethical liar and will use any dirty moves to gain advantage and one of them which he first used on whites was the smear. He smeared many priests who were not homosexual and quite admant against it by starting a whispering campagin about them. There is a wicked book by a gay scholar on the history of homophobia when he shows how whispering tactics were used on men who were batchellors or single throughout the ages. That is the tactic Tatchell mastered against his enemies.

And this is the man you and your kind back again and again against black people as your words clearly show. So explain this to me if homosexuality is minority phenomenon why would I or any reasonable thinking person assume married men who have shown no evidenc of this proclivity are gay and that should be my normal working assumption. Not that some are but the majority are.

You are talking sh*te. I am a married man do most people assume I am gay. Fool....and by the same token we should acccept Tatchels slurs, especially given his track record of lies?. Do you know the lies that man told on Sizzla Kolanji and others. That man is black people's ENEMY. My whole atttitude to the dancehall issue changed when I sat down and did my research and saw how dirty and nasty that man is, but that is whose word you will take over Malcolm X and those who knew him.

Boy you are lost for real. So if Tatchell said I was gay and my wife said what the f**k XYZ you would take his word.

You are the best example of why you will always remain frustrated and angry not only for your irrationality and personal confusion but without white gays you have no self identity.

To mention and support a man who is one of our most vicious enemies to date. A man who went to the Home Secretary not once or twice trying to pin murder charges on Binnie Man and others who had absolutely nothing to do with his lies. Even the British police after Tatchell used them once and they realised it was pure lies when he came again and try to blame Sizzla as a murderer the British police contradicted him.

When he attempted to claim Sizzla's music had influenced the murder of David Morley in Soho the police was out fast and said there is no connection between the two because they were being used and I interiewed ex collleagues in the force and don't even mention Tatchells name for them.

David Morley was murdered by a group of so called Happy Slappers led by a girl and the worst beating he took was from her and a white guy and his friend who was there and attacked said so in his testimony and not led by black people or the black guy who was with them.

And this is the man whose words you want to support and think you and your batty boy firends will find any friends amongst intelligent and knowledgable black people....

Do you know why that campaign ended. Because Tatchell went too far and jeopardised the lives of the token black gays they used. The so called Black Males Gay Advisory Service who was a front for Tatchell and black men hooding or being hooded by whites who they pushed up front when the sh*t was getting too hot to bring some colour to hide what was going on.

JFlag in Jamaica which all of a sudden got chest did a massive U turn when they realised who this Tatchell was and what nastiness he was going on with. My close people talked and advised them. That is why they put out a statement saying there is no evidence suggesting dancehall leads to murder which sunk Tatchell's boat and because of the pressure  in this country their black Gay front lost their bottle because they realise that this was a deadly game and just like JA they were putting their lives at risk not Tatchell.

Do you know how people feel when they find out pure lies are being used against people like Sizzla. People will gun you down straight if they find them. That is what broke the back of that campagin what would happen when black people get mad. That is the time you will see people hunting gays.

We have been attempting to contact the BGMAS. You know what they shut down and ran. Because it was a front and some of us worked it out in a second because we have been dealing with these people and know how they flex. They published the statement saying the campaign was over and in effect the lost and gained not one of their list of demands and shut down their site. Even today they will not return mail or calls and want us to believe this was a genuine bone fide organisation representing black Gays...

Boy you are a joke.

Dream on.

 

FB

 

 



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 Posted: Monday January 23rd, 2006 15:49

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my question is to you Fred, how can you address this "man" as your brother?



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 Posted: Monday January 23rd, 2006 18:10

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@BM as they say how can you go and kiss her and come and kiss me with the same mouth? You may well have a point bro....

But a man can be ignorant, ill informed or just plain straight up dishonest but once you cross a clear line eg supporting Tatchell in his slurs then you align yourself with the enemy. Discussion done.....

I don't ever reason with an enemy as to do so shows I lack intelligence. Once people behave like an enemy then you go home and start doing the work needed to fix them one way or another be it intellectually or practically when that day comes....

Like so called black radical feminists once we see them lining up on white women or men's platforms or rushing to be the only black face in white people's books to diss black people.

No argument we just go home and do the work which is why not one of them can come here with that European and western radical feminist sh*te because they will be gunned down. STRAIGHT We have 20 years at least start on them of working out everything about how they move and operate.

Let's hear how my man response to this Tatchell issue which will determine whether I shall continue to give him the courteousy of calling him a "brother". Because in all categories of people they are those who are bright and those who are dumb.

I have already seen my man talk about Stonewall which is white western gays and their activities and nothing to do with Africans be they gay or not. So lets see how far the white man has his thing up this one.....

Like so called black radical feminists they can't enter a room without bringing the white gal with them. I wonder when they look in the mirror what stares back at them.....

Nothing probably.

 

Peace.

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 Posted: Monday January 23rd, 2006 23:09

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FredB wrote: @Russengo. You keep hiding comments within my text and I keep missing them as I only pop in quickly during working breaks. You see I use you argument to show other black people how you or particular groups of black people think.

You said "

Your guess can only be as good as his  if he hasn't got any evidences, have you got evidences that he was not?

So if black men are not shagging everything one with two legs then they must be gay. Right? Which is why he tried to the same trick but attempted to suggest Malcolm X was gay,

Again, in your twisted homophobic mind any black hero has to be in your mind something that you want him to be, whatever you know about those two, you read, you have no evidences on what they did in their privacy, so Tatchell can as well be right like you can be wrong!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you know why people like you always fail to influence or impress black people because most of you are ignorant of the very thing you claim to stand for or believe. I know nothing  about sleeping with men or the same sex but I know how they politically and strategically operate.

Have you read Tatchells official CV I have a copy and on it it starts with two columns one with what the gay press and its supporters say about him in headlines the other what his detractors say about him including leading national papers.

One thing all his enemies say about him is his is un unethical liar and will use any dirty moves to gain advantage and one of them which he first used on whites was the smear. He smeared many priests who were not homosexual and quite admant against it by starting a whispering campagin about them. There is a wicked book by a gay scholar on the history of homophobia when he shows how whispering tactics were used on men who were batchellors or single throughout the ages. That is the tactic Tatchell mastered against his enemies.

And this is the man you and your kind back again and again against black people as your words clearly show. So explain this to me if homosexuality is minority phenomenon why would I or any reasonable thinking person assume married men who have shown no evidenc of this proclivity are gay and that should be my normal working assumption. Not that some are but the majority are.

My answer is still the same, how would I know that he's right or you are wrong if any of you has no evidences on that?

You are talking sh*te. I am a married man do most people assume I am gay. Fool....and by the same token we should acccept Tatchels slurs, especially given his track record of lies?. Do you know the lies that man told on Sizzla Kolanji and others. That man is black people's ENEMY. My whole atttitude to the dancehall issue changed when I sat down and did my research and saw how dirty and nasty that man is, but that is whose word you will take over Malcolm X and those who knew him.

you are the one who brought Tatchell here, aren't you? I don't know the guy and I don't know what he does, whatever I say here has nothing to do with him but if whatever he says has some evidences to back him up and you don't why wouldn't I believe him?

Boy you are lost for real. So if Tatchell said I was gay and my wife said what the f**k XYZ you would take his word.

It's all down to evidences, if you were seen on your knees s*cking a guy's dick and people had proof of that, yes!

You are the best example of why you will always remain frustrated and angry not only for your irrationality and personal confusion but without white gays you have no self identity.

Oh! you are so wrong, my friend, so wrong! you are the one who's angry as I said before, keeping calling people your enemy because you never had the opportunity to live in a country where you can you look at yourself and say "this is my country" in Jamaica you are a black african man of slave descent, here in the UK, you are a black british of West indian origin, and you dare  to talk about "identity" laughable. I can go back to 10 generations of my ancestors, all kings who are the founder of Burundi, my country, when i am in Burundi, I know that that's my roots, understand,ROOTS!!! what have you got? cotton picker? don't you ever think that with your Malcom X sh*t talk or threats of gunning me down, you scare me! bullets cannot erase my beliefs, and intellectual diarreah doesn't work with me! I have no time but I'll come back! Connard!

To mention and support a man who is one of our most vicious enemies to date. A man who went to the Home Secretary not once or twice trying to pin murder charges on Binnie Man and others who had absolutely nothing to do with his lies. Even the British police after Tatchell used them once and they realised it was pure lies when he came again and try to blame Sizzla as a murderer the British police contradicted him.

When he attempted to claim Sizzla's music had influenced the murder of David Morley in Soho the police was out fast and said there is no connection between the two because they were being used and I interiewed ex collleagues in the force and don't even mention Tatchells name for them.

David Morley was murdered by a group of so called Happy Slappers led by a girl and the worst beating he took was from her and a white guy and his friend who was there and attacked said so in his testimony and not led by black people or the black guy who was with them.

And this is the man whose words you want to support and think you and your batty boy firends will find any friends amongst intelligent and knowledgable black people....

Do you know why that campaign ended. Because Tatchell went too far and jeopardised the lives of the token black gays they used. The so called Black Males Gay Advisory Service who was a front for Tatchell and black men hooding or being hooded by whites who they pushed up front when the sh*t was getting too hot to bring some colour to hide what was going on.

JFlag in Jamaica which all of a sudden got chest did a massive U turn when they realised who this Tatchell was and what nastiness he was going on with. My close people talked and advised them. That is why they put out a statement saying there is no evidence suggesting dancehall leads to murder which sunk Tatchell's boat and because of the pressure  in this country their black Gay front lost their bottle because they realise that this was a deadly game and just like JA they were putting their lives at risk not Tatchell.

Do you know how people feel when they find out pure lies are being used against people like Sizzla. People will gun you down straight if they find them. That is what broke the back of that campagin what would happen when black people get mad. That is the time you will see people hunting gays.

We have been attempting to contact the BGMAS. You know what they shut down and ran. Because it was a front and some of us worked it out in a second because we have been dealing with these people and know how they flex. They published the statement saying the campaign was over and in effect the lost and gained not one of their list of demands and shut down their site. Even today they will not return mail or calls and want us to believe this was a genuine bone fide organisation representing black Gays...

Boy you are a joke.

Dream on.

 

FB

 

 



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 Posted: Tuesday January 24th, 2006 19:13

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@Russengo Man you are on something...

 

You said

"you are the one who brought Tatchell here, aren't you? I don't know the guy and I don't know what he does, whatever I say here has nothing to do with him but if whatever he says has some evidences to back him up and you don't why wouldn't I believe him?

Boy you are lost for real. So if Tatchell said I was gay and my wife said what the f**k XYZ you would take his word.

It's all down to evidences, if you were seen on your knees s*cking a guy's dick and people had proof of that, yes!

----------------------------------------------------------

Tell me something for real. Can you read English or is someone interpreting for you. Because if the latter sack them because they are selling you short.

And that is the positive alternative. If you can read then things are even more serious than i thought. You seem not to be able to think logically or extend a point from a straight forward premise which has nothiing to do with schooling just natural intelligence. School kids do it every day in primary school.

 

You seem to go off at all tangients which has nothing to do with basic intelligence or responding to what has been put to you in simple language.

I said to you this Tatchell man has not one jot of evidence to support his allegations and what do you come back with, if I was seen sucking off a man's dick. No bro that is homo activity and your department and has absolutely nothing to what is being argued. If that was the case that would constitute some damn good evidence....You plank..

But hey that is how you flex when confronted with  a bridge that looks impassible. What ever flies your kite friend....

------------------------------------------------------------



You are the best example of why you will always remain frustrated and angry not only for your irrationality and personal confusion but without white gays you have no self identity.

'Oh! you are so wrong, my friend, so wrong! you are the one who's angry as I said before, keeping calling people your enemy because you never had the opportunity to live in a country where you can you look at yourself and say "this is my country" in Jamaica you are a black african man of slave descent, here in the UK, you are a black british of West indian origin, and you dare  to talk about "identity" laughable. I can go back to 10 generations of my ancestors, all kings who are the founder of Burundi, my country, when i am in Burundi, I know that that's my roots, understand,ROOTS!!! what have you got? cotton picker? don't you ever think that with your Malcom X sh*t talk or threats of gunning me down, you scare me! bullets cannot erase my beliefs, and intellectual diarreah doesn't work with me! I have no time but I'll come back! Connard!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gosh the man has blown a brain vessell....confused3

I use the term enemy in its precise useage. Excuse me why does the term indicate anger. Or is your vocublary so limited? You are one of those two guage cyborgs on and off. Just been watching so some sci fi film with my son about alien spiders fighting earth and the humans refered to the giant spiders as the enemy.Were the generals angry? No pretty precise because the alien spiders were eating them and whole.

You need some education friend and some emotional or some training or something to stop jumping around intellectually in this irrational manner. Same thing I jacked you up on when Kunjufu challenged you to a straight argument........

I am trying to work out the leap from enemy to you pressumptions of where I am from...seems bizzarre to me how you make these conclusions never mind connections. For your information I am born in the Caribbean in my own country on my people' s land and have owned it for several hundred years.....About not having my own country...Hey have you any schools where you are from because you need to start take that opportunity....confused3

Well first thing my friend you obviously know little enough about most things, but definitely identity. A person could be born in an urban gutter and still have a clearer and stronger self identity than you wherever you are born. Where you are born is no reflection of your intelligence and how you make sense of your conditions, history or so called identity....

Of course you come from Kings don't evey one who comes from the contient come from Kings or do you think this is the 18th century and you are talking to dumb whites.....

Hey you may even come from Kings assuming that we are foolish enough to not know what that means. When I said I studied Anthropology we of course know that all African kings were of the highest calibre and the epitomose of civilisation and moral pedigree....Boy you are fool...

Hey even if you were from a line of kings being a homosexual...quickly puts an end to that does it not you jerk.....confused3

You talk of roots when it is clear you are fundamentally confused about what and who you are. Not something I suffer from. You talk white western foolishness, you promote their madness and rhetoric which would get you stoned in your own society and you want to preach to me about roots.....?

 Your a typical worse type of woman for real the worse. There are women who no matter what level of education, men too but nuff women I have gone out with who you remind me of. You actually feel more empowered when you are cussing and acting all ugly and in fact will desperately reach and creatively interpret whatever is said stretching like rubberman to grasp or cling onto anything to divert serious discussion so you can start going on like a b**ch.....About me threatening to gun you...Are you an imbecile or something....or do not know what a metaphor is or a figurative comment is.....

You would love to hold onto that to divert the fact that in basic intelligence you are humiliating yourself or any sensible argument you would wish to advance...Bredrin you are being gunned to pieces long time,taken apart systematically by simple basic questions......

God talk about a martry complex..."Bullets cannot erase your beliefs...You queen....You remind me of that gay Daffyd in Little Britain the wannabe martyr who gets off on being the only gay in the village full of homosexuals. Hey beliefs are free you know....It is the proving of the cogency of those beliefs that you somehow have major difficulty with...

I mean why do you come here and start a thread which you do not have the basic competence to develop in any meaningful way?...Are you people all exhibitionists or something?

In fact you are demonstrating not only basic disrepsect for yourself, your bad..but other members here who have intelligent and reasonable objections and questions and this is all you bring to the party....you po pimp as they say in the US, better off staying at home and buy yourself a can of beer me thinks....

Finally, about cotton picking....Well you sure don't know much about history or geography nevermind matters of sexuality other than having your butt stretched. As they say in social science Being and Knowing are two different things...You are homosexual, but you no f**k all to be able to lead this thread in any serious and educational way which would serve your purposes never mind shed our collective ignorance.

About cotton picking. Well we don't do much of that in the Caribbean and sea cotton is the feild of fisherman...So I have just increased your knowledge quotient by one morsell.........

But let me say this, probably more greater Africans have their orignins in cotton feilds or their families probably than your whole country put togheter 20 times....Tell me who of any significance has come from Burundi but I would be here all day you ignorant speck if I was to take South Carolina alone in the US never mind the rest of the southern States....You brainless imbecille. Do you have anybody the stature of Prof John Hope Franklin, Prof John H Clarke they come from them backgrounds you retard....

But let's stop here my gymn is calling me and on principle I never enter a emotional brawling and screaming contest with women...but at least there is usally some potential benefit afterwards...with those kind of passionate hot headed types..But in your case no can do.....

Look let's stop this "debate" you are wasting my time as my son and nephew who are little children have more intelligence than you in rational and critical thinking and argument development...

 

Peace....niceone.gif

 

FB

 



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Kunjufu
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 Posted: Tuesday January 24th, 2006 19:43

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Fred:Your conversation with Ruesengo illustrates perfectly the dishonesty of this gay contingent, Ruesengo often states tha I'm being rude by questioning his intelligence, however isn't it clear that I'm in fact being factual when i call him Stupid:isn't also a fact that he equally doesn't have an original thought in his body and relies instead on ready made ill considered mantra of others to speak for him....hence every time he is called upon to go below the surface of his argument, ruesengo time and time again fails to deliver
But the again what else should i expect from someone who demostrates the level of anaylsis of a piece wood.....



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Shemsi en Tehuti
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 Posted: Tuesday January 24th, 2006 19:55

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Oh my god...this is hilarious...

FredB wrote: Boy you are lost for real. So if Tatchell said I was gay and my wife said what the f**k XYZ you would take his word.

It's all down to evidences, if you were seen on your knees s*cking a guy's dick and people had proof of that, yes!

----------------------------------------------------------

Tell me something for real. Can you read English or is someone interpreting for you. Because if the latter sack them because they are selling you short.

And that is the positive alternative. If you can read then things are even more serious than i thought. You seem not to be able to think logically or extend a point from a straight forward premise which has nothiing to do with schooling just natural intelligence. School kids do it every day in primary school.

=============

blkbrukteet blkbrukteet

 

 

FredB wrote: You seem to go off at all tangients which has nothing to do with basic intelligence or responding to what has been put to you in simple language.

I said to you this Tatchell man has not one jot of evidence to support his allegations and what do you come back with, if I was seen sucking off a man's dick.

===================

blkbrukteetblkbrukteetblkbrukteet...I am dying here...

 

 

FredB wrote:  Your a typical worse type of woman for real the worse. There are women who no matter what level of education, men too but nuff women I have gone out with who you remind me of. You actually feel more empowered when you are cussing and acting all ugly and in fact will desperately reach and creatively interpret whatever is said stretching like rubberman to grasp or cling onto anything to divert serious discussion so you can start going on like a b**ch.....About me threatening to gun you...Are you an imbecile or something....or do not know what a metaphor is or a figurative comment is.....

================

Too much...



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Bredder Tukoma
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 Posted: Wednesday January 25th, 2006 08:37

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Fred

You must have the patience of Job himself.

AS for this little faggot speaking about cotton pickers? Man this b**ch needs a slap..not even a punch just slap the b**ch with the back of your hand. These people are really something else...confused3 twisted nasty little mofo..

 



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FredB
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 Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 05:24

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@Kunjufu...sometimes bro you just have to go through the motions to reveal what you already know and can sniff a mile off.

Brother can't say he wasn't given a chance to explain himself. Not that he has to persuade people why he is gay or whatever. Not the issue but his other various agendas and he makes no sense whatsover and when conveinient can get irrational like mad.

@Mansa..me done bro...Know when to call it a day and when nothing to gain and just wasting effort and time.

FBconfused3



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Burning Spear
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 Posted: Monday January 30th, 2006 02:50

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Though slammed in Nigeria, I wonder will the South African model become more widespread?



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The Watcher
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 Posted: Monday January 30th, 2006 10:18

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NO

what is the standout thing about south african burning spear?  what is the one thing they have in greater numbers than any other african country (except maybe namibia)??

therein lies the answer to your observation



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 Posted: Monday January 30th, 2006 11:42

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@And to further support DM. Look at Mugabe's condemnation of homosexuality. That is not about ZANU or partisan politics but expressing the basic and dominant African view as illustrated by the African Christain churches attitude to homosexuality.

It's a bit like Barbados (sorry Niceness and any other Bajies in the house). It has always had a reputation for a big and established gay scene, but again they have a very large white population.

By the way homosexuality is not going to be accepted amongst the average South African man or woman.Spend time around them and you will listen and see their views on western culture.

FB

Last edited on Monday January 30th, 2006 11:44 by FredB



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Judge J
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 Posted: Saturday February 4th, 2006 09:56

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Ban battymanism totally. All those white peolpe who love it so much should keep it too themselves.  WHY THE f**k SHOULD EVERYONE EMBRACE IT



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