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Breadfruit
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 20:07 |
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Looking at technology as a fundamental in economic, social and political progress, are we lacking vision and thinking too much in reaction to white supremacy?
If so, (which I believe to be the case) maybe we need a project or aim that can not only free us, from the reactionary mental shackles imposed on us, but also inject new technologies that would place at the forefront of science and industry, by default.
I have never heard this been discussed before so this is probably another Blacknet first.
Let us begin to plan, to land an African on Mars, within the next 30 years.
This could be a project by joint African nations alongside Africans in Diaspora - we have the brains, Africa has all the material resources - so what stopping us going ahead?
Think about how such a feat would affect Africans the world over?
So lets start here, with say a feasibility study.
What say ye Blacknet; any Africans at NASA online?
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ohgollyWTF
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 20:20 |
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| A beautiful thought. Why do we not try and achieve unity first, stabilise the African economy, end poverty and starvation, end rampant corruption? Surely, 'Putting a brother/sister on mars' would be a case of learning to fly before we can crawl, let alone walk?
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CINQUE
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 20:26 |
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Not trying to be funny breadfruit, but you want to put a man on mars, you won't see his ass no more. No human being can ever withstand the poisonous gases and radiation that eminates from this planet.
I get what you're saying though, maybe future technology will enable us to make extraordinary strides.
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 20:35 |
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ohgollyWTF wrote: A beautiful thought. Why do we not try and achieve unity first, stabilise the African economy, end poverty and starvation, end rampant corruption? Surely, 'Putting a brother/sister on mars' would be a case of learning to fly before we can crawl, let alone walk?
The Soviet Union and the United States both had serious internal contradictions (Jim Crow in the US for example) but still developed their space programs.
Surely we could move ours?????
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 20:38 |
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CINQUE wrote: Not trying to be funny breadfruit, but you want to put a man on mars, you won't see his ass no more. No human being can ever withstand the poisonous gases and radiation that eminates from this planet.
I get what you're saying though, maybe future technology will enable us to make extraordinary strides.
@cinque
African, could we not develop some technology that would cope with such operational problems?
Many thought humans would never get to the moon, but we did.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 20:59 |
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I was reading a bunch of western scientists recently objecting to America's desire to put men on Mars. It's pointless they say. Robots can find out the same thing that people can and for FAR FAR cheaper (no oygen, water, food, living space). It would be 100s of $billions.
Other things I think we should focus of. Better use of water and new purification methods as well as energy research would be a direction that would bear some fruit useful for Africans.
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-Amt-
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 21:18 |
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| Dude brothers are pretty much already on mars
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 21:20 |
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@breadfruit
first you say:
| are we lacking vision and thinking too much in reaction to white supremacy? |
then you say:
| Let us begin to plan, to land an African on Mars, within the next 30 years. |
I have been reading sci-fi since 1961. Haven't you seen movies with Whitey on Mars? You sound like you just want to imitate an ambition of the palefaces. You can't develop new technologies without understanding the fundamentals of the current stuff. How many Black people do you know that can do that?
That is why I keep trying to promote sci-fi for kids. Get their minds on the science technoly track while they are still in grammar school. These palefaces are just killing their curiosity making them memorized junk.
What did the moon program really accomplish? There were technological spinoffs like microelectronics because the government would pay for expensive chips in the early 60s that noone else would buy, but that could have been done without going to the moon.
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The Mighty Mos Def
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 22:00 |
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umbrarchist wrote: You sound like you just want to imitate an ambition of the palefaces.
No disrespect to Breadfruit, because I understand the impetus of his post, but I tend to agree with you. We need to dream our own dream and create our own reality, so to speak.
At this time, I'm at a lost when attempting to find many tangible benefits for African/Black people, from furthering the modern day space program grandstanding, that Europeans and, to a lesser extent, Asians seem obsessed with doing. Fascinating? Yes. Helpful? Questionable, at best, unless you're talking of military advancement through an in-depth space program, then I would say: great, we need to have a African/Black military that is up to speed, in that regard.
As you say time and time again, our children need technological advancement, beginning very early on in life, and that's where our dollars need to be concentrated. When we get right in that regard, we won't need to talk of putting a African/Black man on the moon, our children , through their own curiosity, will take care of that, themselves.
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 22:53 |
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Breadfruit writes
LETS PUT A BROTHER ON MARS
Brother!
)))kiss teet((((
well us sisters we will put a Sister in venus...........and you are not invited Chumps!
and i bet you we would beat you to the challenge
)))kiss teet(((
chat about brother only.........even the westerners have women in space, but no no no, you only concern about self
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Da_7thassasin
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 23:07 |
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I like you thought process here. I'm a general science teacher and part time community advocate and I find that when people aim high like in the case of going to mars, people, particularly our people get to work and can get the job done.
From a technological standpoint I dissagree with others who feel that we aren't there technologically. We are there!
Currently there are many plans on the drawing board that will go into testing by 2010. The Russians, the USA and now the Chinese have the know that we could easily adapt for this endeavour. Poisonous gases but again, being on mars is no different than performing a space walk or visiting the International Space Station.
People talk of Unity first, sometimes working on such a tough task can form bonds needed to jumpstart this Unity.
We have People in the US, Nigeria and the caribbean who posess the science prowess to make it happen. Once we have the basic infrastructure in place we can buy technology and jump certain hurdles from the Chinese and cut out the costs associated with the learning curve regarding Space!
If not we can always build a training center in the kalahari and send him on the mission with the USA in 2020!
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 23:34 |
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D7A
Feasability is not the problem. Going to Mars is not that difficult. Its the practicality of taking humans. The only reason would be to say that we did it. Which is pointless really. As I said before, why waste the extra money to go see what robots can see? Why risk lives for no reason or send people away for a long trip (it takes like 6 months just to get there) for no discernable reason.
Furthermore there is nothing to be learned from Mars (my opinion). It is a dead rock with a bit of ice. Big deal.
Now if you want to talk terraforming then that too need not involve people, since just this week certain people in NASA we talking about redirecting comets to smash into Mars so that ice and chemicals get busy in the atmosphere. Man... since it would take decades anyway it would have to be done remotely somehow. There is simply no need for people to be on Mars. It's a propoganda diversion of scientific minds and funds.
SF
Venus is ridicolously hot (metals melt) and the pressure is silly too. Wouldnt see much through all the gasses anyway. Not pretty. Feminists welcome to go see for themselves though  j/k
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ohgollyWTF
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Posted: Saturday October 15th, 2005 23:53 |
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Da_7thassasin wrote:
If not we can always build a training center in the kalahari and send him on the mission with the USA in 2020!
That is also lovely. Tell me though, where are we going to put the Khoisan people of the Kalahari that have already been made homeless, no thanks to diamond mining? I suppose it is alright because we are aiming high, right? One giant leap for mankind!
Last edited on Sunday October 16th, 2005 00:16 by ohgollyWTF
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ManAfrikan
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 00:02 |
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Hotep,
In agreement with ohgollyWTF here. Lets take this suggestion seriously, in order to achieve as Afrikans we first need to have an economy control by Afrikans, to our benefit.
Economics being how a people manage and control their resources, the fact that ours benefit Europe and America a whole lot more than they do us is a clear hinderance. Threrefore we would first need a program to put a stop to the economic rape of our homeland.
Then now whilste we are trying to accomplish this, the question of priority comes to play. Afrikans all over the world are subject to poverty on varying scales. from Shanty Towns in Afrika & Carribbean to the urban decay of Afrikans in Western countries. The econmic paln must include a solution to thsi.
There are issues of Schooling, we obviously need to be able to educate ourselves, our present level of achievment within this edycation system is a clear indication of this. Even to achieve the Mars feet, we would need instutions of learning, research and study, run by Afrikans, with a basic Africentric level of overstanding, from a social, political and cultural stand point. i.e. Know Thy Self!
There is Health care, the level of illness and disease facing the Afrikan is ridiculous. We are dying younger and younger by the decade. Research as to why, towards the development of cures and methods of prevention are imperative.
It seems to me that all these thing (besides many others) take presidents, as they would need to be in place well before we even think of launching in to space. And this is not a mere reaction to white supremecy- this is a Pro-Active analysis & solution draw fromthe basis of our current state as a people.
We do not lack people who have done great things in our History, this is not our problem. What we need is to develop a global infrastructure of sustainability, that is built by and in the interest of our people, so that ideas such as this can be pursued by our present future generations, with hesitation if they so wish.
Last edited on Sunday October 16th, 2005 00:07 by ManAfrikan
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Da_7thassasin
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 00:28 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: D7A
Feasability is not the problem. Going to Mars is not that difficult. Its the practicality of taking humans. The only reason would be to say that we did it. Which is pointless really. As I said before, why waste the extra money to go see what robots can see? Why risk lives for no reason or send people away for a long trip (it takes like 6 months just to get there) for no discernable reason.
Furthermore there is nothing to be learned from Mars (my opinion). It is a dead rock with a bit of ice. Big deal.
Now if you want to talk terraforming then that too need not involve people, since just this week certain people in NASA we talking about redirecting comets to smash into Mars so that ice and chemicals get busy in the atmosphere. Man... since it would take decades anyway it would have to be done remotely somehow. There is simply no need for people to be on Mars. It's a propoganda diversion of scientific minds and funds.
SF
Venus is ridicolously hot (metals melt) and the pressure is silly too. Wouldnt see much through all the gasses anyway. Not pretty. Feminists welcome to go see for themselves though j/k
DM:
I think the real benefits come from the innovations that arise due to certain technological break throughs. Like, previous orbital missions and experiments in zero Gravity resulted in cancer treatments, discovery of new and lighter alloys. Mars is said to harbor rare forms of elements. As a practice, Mars can give man a more accurate idea of what colonizing distant planets will take. Seeing that we are growing as a population at exponential rates and that our resources are limited and our environment is become trashed, this may not be as a bad idea as it is thought.
6 months time, an established human habitat, research, mining and the possibility of terraforming as well as new scientific discovery seem reason enough to justify the voyage. I'm a science person so I do harbor bias. I blame it on Star Trek, E=mc2 and our scinece musuem's planetarium.
If more scientific undertaking is enacted the prices will drop to such a rate that it would make sense.
think about the technological leapfrogging effect new breakthroughs would have on Africa. Part of the problem is reducing the time delay of telecommunications between earth and Mars, 8 minutes is way too much time. The implications for ending the delay can be used on earth in a more cost effective manner.
Space transport would benefit all flight processes on earth. Propulsion, methods to harness the properties of gravity and even more advanced methods of propulsion at lower costs could only benefit the Black scientific community.
Such applications such as mining asteroids for metals can easily jumpstart or leapfrog an economy from 3rd world to first world, given that the Nickel and irons deposits in asteroids are estimated to be up to $1 trillion dollars. Hydrogen (H3) which is said to be on Mars can be a cost effective fuel source while the CO2 can be easily converted to breathe-able O2.
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Blakk 1
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 00:44 |
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Peace!
Thats a Joke ting blud.
Lets deal wid sorting out ourselves on Earth first! Then Mars can come in to the equation.
Realness is giong on, we need have our feet on the ground and we done left the planet! that dnt make sense!
1!
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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 00:53 |
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@ D7A
I think the real benefits come from the innovations that arise due to certain technological break throughs. Like, previous orbital missions and experiments in zero Gravity resulted in cancer treatments, discovery of new and lighter alloys. Mars is said to harbor rare forms of elements. As a practice, Mars can give man a more accurate idea of what colonizing distant planets will take.
Which planets please? We can rule out everything else in the solar system planets and moons I'll tell you that much. Besides that dead rock Mars itself what is there? Outside the solar system (ill pretend to forget that we can not ever cover such silly distances burning hydrogen) there have been less than 100 planets found and all of them are gas giants like jupiter. Colonising Mars can only tell you about Mars! And I still think it a bad idea.
Seeing that we are growing as a population at exponential rates and that our resources are limited and our environment is become trashed, this may not be as a bad idea as it is thought.
No. It is lazy thinking. Instead of just saying well we are growing exponentially (not true or even possible) and that we are ruining one planet lets go get another we should be thinking how to stop wasting what we have and make more efficient use. Or we merely go elsewhere to repeat the same mistakes. It's like town planners who build more roads as a method to ease congestion. What happens? The new roads get congested too so they build more and more. That is not progress it is lazy thinking.
6 months time, an established human habitat, research, mining and the possibility of terraforming as well as new scientific discovery seem reason enough to justify the voyage. I'm a science person so I do harbor bias. I blame it on Star Trek, E=mc2 and our scinece musuem's planetarium.
E=MC2 implies that faster than light speed is impossible making the practicality of interstellar travel a thing of dreams. We must not be deluded into thinking we have a whole universe to ruin. We have one planet, Earth. My idea is that we spend time thinking of ways to save it.
If more scientific undertaking is enacted the prices will drop to such a rate that it would make sense.
As umbrachist pointed out the things you speak of that came about from the Apollo missions could have been done without the publicity stunt of actually landing on the moon which was more of a political statement than a scientific achievement.
Zero gravity research can be and is being done in space stations. You have not convinced me of the need to go traipsing about the solar system with human beings yet. ROBOTS my man... ROBOTS!
think about the technological leapfrogging effect new breakthroughs would have on Africa. Part of the problem is reducing the time delay of telecommunications between earth and Mars, 8 minutes is way too much time. The implications for ending the delay can be used on earth in a more cost effective manner.
Ending the delay? LOL The delay is because radio waves move at the speed of light and it takes that long at that speed through a vacuum at that distance from the massive gravity of the sun to get here. If you can suggest ways of going faster than that I'm listening.... besides the delay in communications between nations on earth is a small fraction of a second.
And again... what is the need in going to Mars to do any of this fantastical research? We could stay right here and put money into such science if it were really what was wanted.
Space transport would benefit all flight processes on earth. Propulsion, methods to harness the properties of gravity and even more advanced methods of propulsion at lower costs could only benefit the Black scientific community.
Not until we sort out energy problems which as I said should come first. Flying to Mars on a big rocket blowing hydrogen is not efficient imo. We should be focussed (here on earth) in finding better energy sources. How better to utilise all that free energy from the sun for example. That is the sort of thing which will have far more direct bearing on Africa and earth in general that silly jaunts into the cosmos.
Such applications such as mining asteroids for metals can easily jumpstart or leapfrog an economy from 3rd world to first world, given that the Nickel and irons deposits in asteroids are estimated to be up to $1 trillion dollars. Hydrogen (H3) which is said to be on Mars can be a cost effective fuel source while the CO2 can be easily converted to breathe-able O2.
Convert CO2 to Oxygen? And put the Carbon where exactly? You gonna plant trees on mars? If it were that easy we would be doing that right here on earth and there would be no hole in the ozone layer or worry about global warming.
Another point is that though Mars might be 6 months away on a rocket the asteroids are more than double that distance... space is very big. So that is a more than 2 year trip for whoever is doing mining to bring us back some rocks? Robots robots robots!!! This will all be done by robots. It is the only way and it as CHEAPER!
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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 01:19 |
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Anyway I think we misunderstanding Breadfruit.
I think I know him well enough now. All about Pan African cooperation and sharing of resources. If I'm on the right track BF isn't interested in us discussing the feasibility of getting to Mars in itself. But wether we can as a group of pan Africans dream up and come together to complete great works together. The "Mars" bit is not the important part of this thread. This bit is...
Looking at technology as a fundamental in economic, social and political progress, are we lacking vision and thinking too much in reaction to white supremacy?
If so, (which I believe to be the case) maybe we need a project or aim that can not only free us, from the reactionary mental shackles imposed on us, but also inject new technologies that would place at the forefront of science and industry, by default.
The mars bit then was simply an idea of something we could do. For my part I think it is very feasible indeed and that the benifits of us collectively doing us would spur more of us in competition or out of opportunity to do the same. Restore pride. All that is needed is leadership really... identifying what is to be done. Possible people who could do it, funding and so on.
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 15:56 |
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Last edited on Sunday October 16th, 2005 16:07 by Breadfruit
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 16:02 |
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Breadfruit wrote: DrunkMonkey wrote: Anyway I think we misunderstanding Breadfruit.
I think I know him well enough now. All about Pan African cooperation and sharing of resources. If I'm on the right track BF isn't interested in us discussing the feasibility of getting to Mars in itself. But wether we can as a group of pan Africans dream up and come together to complete great works together.
Drunk, you know me too well
I gonna have to think a bit more out of the box to stop this from happening again :-)
But I don't see such a project as far fetched and negative in terms of its successful execution - but after years of study and research by our people, maybe I would be proven wrong.
The "space race" was also part of a war - east versus west; and war often speeds societal development through the implementation of technology.
The Internet itself, would probably not even be here now, if not for the increase in Integrated Circuit technology, Intercontinental Missiles and Nuclear bombs. All of these things are interlinked with the knowlegde of space, study of the solar system and wider universe coupled with Mans' desire to know more about these phenomena.
Africans should be able to think and discuss such matters seriously.
As for imitating the white man as a previous poster implied, why would such a project be about doing such a thing?
Do we forget that our fore-parents plotted the movements of Stars, constellations and galaxies, that until only recently has modern western science began to understand our former scientific greatness!!
In all truth, the white man imitates us!!
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 16:12 |
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Sooofresh wrote: Breadfruit writes
LETS PUT A BROTHER ON MARS
Brother!
)))kiss teet((((
well us sisters we will put a Sister in venus...........and you are not invited Chumps!
and i bet you we would beat you to the challenge
)))kiss teet(((
chat about brother only.........even the westerners have women in space, but no no no, you only concern about self
Sooofresh, how many men, do you think would travel so far, and for so long, without women?
And I'm not talking about your common terrestrial television "male" here.
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ThE EnFoRcEr
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 16:23 |
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'put a brother on mars'?
sounds like something you would find in a b.n.p manifesto .seriously though, there are far greater things on earth for us to overcome before we can even think of such a (in my opinion) unecessary thing.
let the white man go first anyway. give those alien space monsters something to gynam.
Last edited on Sunday October 16th, 2005 16:27 by ThE EnFoRcEr
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Shabaka1
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Posted: Sunday October 16th, 2005 21:26 |
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