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azania
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 07:17 |
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The head of the CRE, Trevor Phillips has said that seperate classes for black boys are required to reverse the trend of failure at GCSE level. Currently black boys are the worst performing groups of kids at this stage of education with just over 36% achieving 5 GCSE at 'C' grade or above. The current average is over 51%.
Firstly why the failure of black boys? Mr Phillps claimed that there is a culture of failure in which getting bad results is seen as cool.
Secondly, will seperate classes reverse this trend?
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The Watcher
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 07:24 |
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Bad idea.
Special classes within the same school implies that black students are a seperate unteachable group, or a less able group when in fact the problem lies with the schools.
Being put in the special 'black' class will foster a feeling on both sides, students and teachers that they are the inferior group... the white students left in the normal groups will think so too. You see the problem is the state school environment and the teachers there. Their fear of us and natural mistreatment. Putting us in a special class will only confirm the fears and low expectations and things will WORSEN rather than improve.
Black schools with an ethos developed around us is a WHOLE different kettle of fish.
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azania
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 07:35 |
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I agree with you. It seems the kids will be stigmatised which could compound the issue even further.
It leads to the question of how to reverse this trend. Black schools smacks of seperatism and this govt or any other will not permit them in the numbers required. Furthermore such a school will need money and for the life of me I cannot trust any govt to spend the amount of money reuired for a black school to succeed.
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Lovedaddy
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 09:50 |
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It's more a working class boys thing than one specifically on race; even then, the issue is more with Afro-Carribbean boys, then other sub-segments in the black racial group.
The key to this problem is to break down the bad-bwoy influence and bring these kids to the realisation that education is the tickets to escaping poverty (I refuse to use the word "Ghetto" as there are NO ghettos in the UK).
In terms of the Black-Carribbean kids, they need to emulate the achievements of the Chinese community, and those in certain Asian Communities and understand that education is a pre-requisite for advancement; a basic platform that is needed to be built on. The fact that under a third of black boys gained Five A-C Grades last year is an absolute disgrace.
Until these yoots understand that being educationally proficient and black are not mutually exclusive, then we'll continue to see this kind of failing.
In terms of Phillips advocation of separate classes - Palpable nonsense. Segregating kids from a young age, is destructive as it will reinforce separatism from other races; could promote a sense of exclusion from a young age. Such feelings can only grow. Although the results might improve for the separated groups, it's hardly a promotion of multiculturalism.
You can read his thoughts on the subject here:
http://www0.bbc.co.uk/london/insideldn/insideout/series7/education_01.shtml
http://www0.bbc.co.uk/london/insideldn/insideout/series7/education_02.shtml
http://www0.bbc.co.uk/london/insideldn/insideout/series7/education_03.shtml
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 09:54 |
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| seperate schools would be a better idear
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azania
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 09:57 |
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Black_power wrote: seperate schools would be a better idear
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Would it? Many inner city schools in which black kids attend are failing. The overwhelming majority of kids in such schools are black or other minority.
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 10:01 |
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100% black schools staffed with all black teachers
let that run for 10 years or so
see the results
then if they are still as bad as now then we would only have ourselves to blame
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MissNyomie
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 10:42 |
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Black boys should be taught in separate classes from their white peers according to Trevor Phillips chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality.
He states, Black boys suffer from this culture where it's "uncool" to be clever. The only way to combat this is to have segregated classes for certain subjects where Black boys are failing. He also attacked Black fathers who fail to take their parenting responsibilities seriously, citing
"we need to embrace some new unpalatable ideas both at home and at school"
A spokesman for the Secondary Heads Association claims that to do this would be counter-productive and even illegal.
Figures published last month show that Black pupils are falling behind their white counterparts at GCSE level, although there are signs that the gap in narrowing. Last year 35.7 per cent of Black Caribbean ( NOTICE THE DISTINCTION OF BLACK CARIBBEAN AND NOT BLACK AFRICANS) in England scored at least five C-grades at GCSE compared with a national average of 51.9 per cent.
I SAY......forget black taught lessons, we should have BLACK schools, with BLACK teachers, BLACK administration, BLACK dinner ladies, and most importantly BLACK history.
ANY THOUGHTS?
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respecta
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 10:48 |
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I agree with Black_Power, I am certain if black youths were being taught by black teachers an unbelievable change would come about in their success at school. Unfortunately, I know the government would never allow this at the scale we need, we may be be able to fight for one, but you know the press would pounce on it like hungry wolves.
Therefore, we blacks have to take the responsibility and educate are kids at home, as the asian, who are outranking both blacks and whites at school.
The idea of separate schooling is the worst idea ever, for the reasons you all have stated, so to remedy this problem we need saturday schools run by blacks, after school care, etc.
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 10:52 |
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yup imagine a normal mixed secondary school
with the "black class"
LoL
wonder if they would make an "asian class" for P.E as them people dont really take sport seriously and have been slacking for years
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MissNyomie
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 10:53 |
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SORRY- Just seen that this topic already has a thread. Would one of the moderators kindly remove this one.
Thanks MissNyomie
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dimoke
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 10:54 |
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I think since we know that the government here would never allow more than one specialised black school.......what we can do is create evenings and weekend African schools in the mean time while we fight for more of them normal schools......
I believe the Jews are doing this along with the Greeks......from what i have seen, it has been immensly succsesfull to some enxtent....
What do you guys think???
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 11:28 |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4323979.stm
Please click here for full story
I personally think this is totally ludicrous. I think its a step back and TOTALLY feel it is unnecessary to segregate black boys as needing 'special classes'. I'm a 19 year old black boy and I have been through the system and have done very well for myself. There should be no need to seperate black boys, if you are going to seperate a group of students for POOR performance thats fine, but an entire race of a particular sex is just plain stupid.
Bollocks!
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honeyhotel
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 11:52 |
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| I think black boys do need to be seperated they are such a special case aren't they?????
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respecta
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 11:55 |
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| Just read the BBC report on this, still can't believe Trevor Phillips would promote such a ludicrous idea, if i was a black boy at school it would make me feel so much worse going into school and entering the "black section," but i do agree with his views on black fathers, the lack of them in many black families is disgraceful and is one of the clear causes of failure in black boys, this has been going to for too long and we have to stop accepting this behaviour from these selfish men.
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lucy_lou
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 12:12 |
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For education sake it may be a good idea, but not on a social scale. How will these boys adapt in society when they are segregated like this?
Last edited on Monday March 7th, 2005 14:37 by lucy_lou
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Saida.M
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 12:15 |
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Why is it alright to have separate Muslim faith schools but whenever anyone raises the idea of a separate schools for 'blacks' it always gets rubbished?
Aren't the facts are that 'black' boys are being excluded by the dozen? Is that better?
IF they managed to bypass that, then their learning environment is dire, teachers abysmal, and their grades will inevitably be low!
Even if separate schools don't work, why not at least give it a chance to find out!
Why do I always get the feeling that every time this type of suggestion is aired, subsequently ridiculed, that the only reason why is because they, (whites) or the 'system' just want to be in control of us?
However, I do disagree that there should be separate classes; as DM said, the boys would be looked upon as a 'less able group'.
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 12:21 |
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I think Trevor Phillips was advocating schools for Black boys only because he's seen it working in the States, plus it's a known fact that children of either sex attain better marks if they are educated separately.
That said, removing boys and educating them separately will not remove the "hoodrat" mentality that exists. In fact, I think it'd make it worse.
I'm also unsure of the whole Black school idea. I'm saying this because my son attends an all Black breakfast club/after school club (I mean all the staff are Black), and he still has (or he would like to have!) an attitude because he's emulating older boys. The education of our young needs to begin at home - not at school.
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 12:59 |
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We need to look at is our community. Asian girls and boys are excelling all races, black girls are doing better than white boys, blacks boys remain at the bottom, why is this? i don't believe white teachers will be anymore helpful to asain boys than black if they are racist, so we need to look at ourselves.
I am not saying the education system isn't to blame, i don't deny that many teachers have preconceived notions about black pupils, and treat them negatively because of this. But, it is clear they are not going to help us, so we have to help ourselves, also teachers can't be soley responsible, it is on the parents to teach them the importance of education too, so they are willing to learn when they get to class.
Education starts with the family, and when many boys don't have a male figure to help them, trouble is bound to start.
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 13:18 |
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athaba wrote: Why is it alright to have separate Muslim faith schools but whenever anyone raises the idea of a separate schools for 'blacks' it always gets rubbished?
Aren't the facts are that 'black' boys are being excluded by the dozen? Is that better?
*********************************
Who says it's OK to have all Muslim Schools? I disagree with that also.
It's a nonsense to segment education by the various ethnic or religious differences between the pupils. Is it any surprise there is racial intolerance between various groups, when the only time they'll interact with each other is when their older and when they opinions will already have been formed due to segregation.
I find it ridiculous that in the 1950s and 1960s, people of colour were fighting to be able to go to school in a non-segregated manner as the laws were racist and unpalatable... Now we have the situation where the education is there, and young black male pupils are rejecting education as it's seen as 'uncool'...
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 14:14 |
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I'm sorry, but I don't see how being taught by black teachers should make any REAL difference in performance by black boys.
What student's need is the motivation to do good at school, this is often found from having good discipline from home. If a boy is going to be stupid and not study and work hard at doing good at school, then regardless of whether they are taught by a black teacher or not, performance will not improve.
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 15:24 |
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Thankfully the recommendation has been rejected by the government.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4326007.stm
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 15:44 |
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It will be fanatstic ..................if it gets implemented correctly..................I am not in favour of the plan of "black" class within a mixed school....................instead i will activily welcome the plan of a black school for black boys to be taught by black males.............................
Somehow I don't think middle white Britain or Asians would welcome the idea of seeing black boys do well............................so I would not get our hopes high.
Nevertheless....................for the time being the concept of having evening and weekend schools should be considered seriously
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 16:05 |
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| I don't think you need to create a school specificaly for YBM's. A significant number of fathers should pay greater interest in the child's education. I noticed in yesterday's news report that one particular class was full of black of fathers sitting with their sons...must have been in America.
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 16:12 |
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huzzah1 wrote: I don't think you need to create a school specificaly for YBM's. A significant number of fathers should pay greater interest in the child's education. I noticed in yesterday's news report that one particular class was full of black of fathers sitting with their sons...must have been in America.
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I know this happens a great exstint in America as well.
Afro-American boys are PARTICULARLY hurt by these so call "acting black" sterotypes.
Media images are constantly bombarding our young men with images of what it is to be a "black man". Mainly having 2 and 3 women, playing basketball (or football), and dressing like the lastest rapper!
That is why I absolutely HATE to hear saying something as stupid as: "I didn't fit in with other Black people b/c I don't act black"
There is NO such thing as acting black!
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 16:25 |
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true wrote: Thankfully the recommendation has been rejected by the government.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4326007.stm
It was sOOOOOOO damn obvious the Gov would reject this. anything related to the black upliftment is always STOPPED DEAD. I don't agree with black boys being taught seperatly from others. But However i do agree with All black schools and all black curriculum which includes classes in citzenship, health and safety etc and i must also echo BLACK HISTORY POST SLAVERY AND PRE-SLAVERY.
What Trevor Philips should have suggested instead is classes for the bad baby mothas and baby fardas who would rather go to a bashment rave than focus on their child(ren)s education. where are their Principles?
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