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Pek
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 18:35 |
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| Why do Black girls perform well in there GCSE's but black boys don't http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3517171.stm
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Taysense
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 19:28 |
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| because their easier to control
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nubbyprincess
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 19:38 |
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Black Girls overtake White Boys. Good news. Thanks for the article Pek
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Peacemaker
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 19:43 |
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Pek wrote: Why do Black girls perform well in there GCSE's but black boys don't http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3517171.stm
It's quite simple. They're dumb. Arf. No not dumb just easily distracted by this silly youth culture bullsh*t., which is dumb anyway. You'll find that in certain northern cities white boys are just as bad if not worse, again for the same reasons. The exams aren't getting easier for no reason you know, the ever increasing rates of illiteracy amongst all race isn't increasing for no reason either. Frankly the English speaking culture is being dumbed down, and as such so are the people. A useful side effect of consumerism. Dumb people buy things, keeps the economy ticking over. Can't have that many smart people in the country, the people in power would lose power in a minute. So it's best to have the many dumb people ruled by the few smart people. It's best to have the few very rich people rule the many poor people, and so on.
The Chinese keep themselves to themselves and don't really like British culture so their focus of attention in school is normally on the work, and not on other things, especially to the exclusion of all else. Our problem is that we have intergrated with white society too much, where as the East Asians and the West Asians haven't so much, but it's only a matter of time. You just plaster a sh*tload of them on TV and hey presto. I want to be like him or her and so on.
The black boys that do well you'll find probably act more the chinese in attitude and outlook, as do the white students that excel above the average.
Also the sense of shame of being dumb is strangely missing, oh that's right, no shame in being exacty like your peers.
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Pek
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 20:16 |
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| But don't you think teachers have already viewed black boys aas failures.....thats what it was like when i went school. All the teachers never listened to us and was always scared to come near us even though we wasn't doing any thing.
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Seabiscuit
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 20:27 |
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I think its a little bit of both, schools can be neglectful to black pupils I think but then again, they don't help themselves. I mean, Asian kids are outperforming black kids everytime even though they are about the same as ethnic minorities...
Surely theres a inherent problem? (Might have to agree with Peace in a minute...  )
But the real issue here is why are black girls better than black boys? Is it parenting? Black boys can be seen to look after themselves, standing on their own two feet and need no encouragement whereas black girls have more encouragement and being a female, more reason to suceed... 
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NativeTongue
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 20:37 |
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my opinion is this.first of all black boys are not stupid or unintelligent or unambitious.spend even a small amount of time with kids and you will realise this.
secondly i believe there is something inherent in black culture which nurtures an anti-authoritarian zeal.
i believe this is a hangup from Plantaion Culture.If you look at African cultures where there was not that strong history of Opression and Domination by the European you will find a greater willingness to engage.
Amongst East Asians the reaction to Racism is to try and harder in effect to rise above the European.
Amongst black people the reaction is to revolt, rebel.
My opinion is that the anger and energy we see displayed by young black boys needs simply to be harnessed and channelled into something more coherent, beneficial, longer lasting.
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Pek
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 20:57 |
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NativeTongue wrote: my opinion is this.first of all black boys are not stupid or unintelligent or unambitious.spend even a small amount of time with kids and you will realise this.
secondly i believe there is something inherent in black culture which nurtures an anti-authoritarian zeal.
i believe this is a hangup from Plantaion Culture.If you look at African cultures where there was not that strong history of Opression and Domination by the European you will find a greater willingness to engage.
Amongst East Asians the reaction to Racism is to try and harder in effect to rise above the European.
Amongst black people the reaction is to revolt, rebel.
My opinion is that the anger and energy we see displayed by young black boys needs simply to be harnessed and channelled into something more coherent, beneficial, longer lasting.
What are you talking about???...why does everything have to be blamed on slavery, many black youths don't even know about slavery intil they LEARN about it in school.
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NativeTongue
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 21:15 |
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okay im not a sociologist but i think in socilogy it might be descibed as 'cultural memory'.ie a culture which has undergone some major event in its lifetime has a memory of that event through things like folklore, mythology , moral codes etc.
For example if you look at hte Jews thre is a Cultural Memory of its Persecution which goes bac thousands of years, and that manifests itself strongly in the way the jew views himself and his community in relation to the outside world.
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Peacemaker
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 21:25 |
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Pek wrote: But don't you think teachers have already viewed black boys aas failures.....thats what it was like when i went school. All the teachers never listened to us and was always scared to come near us even though we wasn't doing any thing.
The fact of the matter is that teachers teach pupils as a group, not individually. It's upto the individual pupil to learn what they are taught. If the pupil doesn't desire to learn and study then they won't, or if they're distracted totally by things outside of school then they'll be more educated in whatever they focus on and if it isn't school education then they won't do well at school obviously. Nothing that a teacher has said to me helped me in any way. They just gave me the work and it was done. Boring as hell yes, repetitive yes, but it got done. One of the reasons boys don't do so well. They don't adapt too well to the repetitive and rigid nature of the school learning process, especially after living the previous years as a pretty much free and innocent child. .
I've been through the teachers thinking bad of me nonsense. Didn't stop me earning more money than they do now and more importantly being alot smarter than they'll ever be. However I wasn't a placid sheep through the whole process.
A positive in all this is that black boys are less likely to be brainwashed, because that's all education is until you get into higher education, and even that is questionable. A negative is that they're brainwashed/influenced by something which is probably worse, but at least the ability to think for themselves isn't lost on them totally. However people who aren't able to think as one of the team aren't very employable anyway. Programmable worker bees get the job done. You don't write for the Sun if you've a far left mentality do you now. And you don't work in a factory when you have the ambition to run it.
School is just a filter for the weak willed at the moment. The best go into higher education the rest go elsewhere, normally into some dead end job that the government seem to want to fill.
It's not actually based on intelligence at all. It's about desire.
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NativeTongue
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 21:29 |
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Cultural Memory
Cultural Memory is a concept introduced to the archaeological disciplines by Jan Assmann (1988a; 1988b; 1992: espec. 22). Assmann defines cultural memory as the "outer dimension of human memory" (1992: 19), embracing two different concepts: "memory culture" (Erinnerungskultur) and "reference to the past" (Vergangenheitsbezug). Memory culture is the way a society ensures cultural continuity by preserving, with the help of cultural mnemonics, its collective knowledge from one generation to the next, rendering it possible for later generations to reconstruct their cultural identity. References to the past, on the other hand, reassure the members of a society of their collective identity and supply them with an awareness of their unity and singularity in time and space—i.e. an historical consciousness—by creating a shared past (Assmann 1992: 30-34; see also 1996: 26f., 31). These two concepts may or may not coincide.
Such 'retrospective memory' manifests itself in history culture and can involve rituals and ceremonies at special occasions such as commemoration days, and at special places such as ancient monuments, which function as timemarks and sites of memory (Assmann 1992: 56–9; see also Connerton 1989).
Concept of cultural memory thus corresponds to studies of other forms of memory in society, which have shown how even personal recollections by individuals, concerning the (fairly recent) past of their own lifetime, do not support the view that memory is a simple storage place for information which can be retrieved later on, but suggest that in memory the past is actively constructed depending on certain social and mental conditions. This cannot be better expressed than in the words of John Elsner (1994: 226):
"What matters ... is not that [a particular account of the past] be correct by our standards or anyone else's, but that it be convincing to the particular group of individuals ... for whom it serves as an explanation of the world they inhabit. ... [W]hat matters about any particular version of history is that it be meaningful to the collective subjectivities and self-identities of the specific group which it addresses. In other words, we are not concerned with 'real facts' or even a coherent methodology, but rather with the consensus of assumptions and prejudices shared by the historian ... and his audience".
Individuals learn their collective memories through socialisation, but they retain the freedom to break out of it and offer alternative views of the past which may themselves later become part of this collective memory. As interpretations of the past constantly change, so do cultural memories.
Recently, Assmann spoke of "mnemohistory" in relation to the past-as-it-is-remembered. He also stated that "Mnemohistory is reception theory applied to history", that the "proper way of dealing with the working of cultural memory is mnemohistory" and that "Mnemohistory investigates the history of cultural memory" (1997: 9, 14, 15). His new approach therefore describes well my own ambitions.
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/citd/holtorf/2.0.html
Last edited on Thursday February 24th, 2005 21:31 by NativeTongue
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 21:30 |
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I'd be pretty interested to hear what black boys desire to be in life. What are their goals and dreams.
I'd especially like to hear what the ones between the ages of 7 and 14 would like to do.
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday February 24th, 2005 22:13 |
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Peacemaker wrote:
It's quite simple. They're dumb. Arf. No not dumb just easily distracted by this silly youth culture bullsh*t., which is dumb anyway. You'll find that in certain northern cities white boys are just as bad if not worse, again for the same reasons. The exams aren't getting easier for no reason you know, the ever increasing rates of illiteracy amongst all race isn't increasing for no reason either. Frankly the English speaking culture is being dumbed down, and as such so are the people. A useful side effect of consumerism. Dumb people buy things, keeps the economy ticking over. Can't have that many smart people in the country, the people in power would lose power in a minute. So it's best to have the many dumb people ruled by the few smart people. It's best to have the few very rich people rule the many poor people, and so on.
The Chinese keep themselves to themselves and don't really like British culture so their focus of attention in school is normally on the work, and not on other things, especially to the exclusion of all else. Our problem is that we have intergrated with white society too much, where as the East Asians and the West Asians haven't so much, but it's only a matter of time. You just plaster a sh*tload of them on TV and hey presto. I want to be like him or her and so on.
The black boys that do well you'll find probably act more the chinese in attitude and outlook, as do the white students that excel above the average.
Also the sense of shame of being dumb is strangely missing, oh that's right, no shame in being exacty like your peers.
Couldnt agree more. Well said. They have dumbed down the education system across the board.
My year was the first year to do GCSE in the country. I went to an ordinary comprehensive full off Black boys but a good school in the basics. As a youth we used to curse boys in our area for joke and say they went to the dunce school. Now they are all bloody dunce schools.
The GCSE maths exam which was/ one of three I took/ we had covered and gone backwards over that long time in the 1st year of secondary school. Thinking back now it seems that was the first step in the regression of state education.
Me and two brothers wanted to take the A-C exam but we were told we was not ready/ probably because they were pissed that we f**ked about in class and still buss up the exams.
A regretable scenario and one that I would of dealt with differently if ten years older. If only...
But they are dumbimg down the education system no doubt. How many primary school children learn about pro-nous and the basic rules of language/ algebra/ which at my primary school was the rule.
My boy aint coming home with work like that? Whats changed.
Cant depend on the school to educate our children. Alot of the generation straight from the carribean done just that. But at least they used to teach you the rudiments of an academic eduaction.
Alot of the teachers were wankers but I can think of at least three white teachers that really knew how to teach and could buss joke and educate at the same time.
Teaching is a skill. I cant see how a 22 year old can teach teenagers when they are barely removed from their peer group. And wearing short skirt as well.
One or two things teachers told me about the working world have stuck with me and were truth.
Now you be lucky if 16 year old can tell you 6 x 8 without a calculator.
Dont like to fight the youth them because its not their fault/ but as far as Im concerned WE/ are failing our Black boys. Alot of us went to school who have children in the system now. We know the deal. If we dont take the education of them into our own hands on a personal or communal level then they are left to the wolves.
Last edited on Thursday February 24th, 2005 22:15 by Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday February 25th, 2005 09:28 |
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If the education system is dumbed down.......................why are boys still failing the dumbed down system?
come on maths, english, sceince are subjects that are failed by boys only.
The only reason why boys are failing is due to the relationship between teacher and pupil..............has nothing to do with subjects...................unless people are implying that boys are unable to handle simple dumbed down exams....................
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NativeTongue
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Posted: Friday February 25th, 2005 09:40 |
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Black pupils closing GCSE grade gap
Kath Demopoulos
Thursday February 24, 2005
Guardian Unlimited
P*kistani pupils improved their GCSE performance more than any other ethnic group last year, but black Caribbean pupils are slowly closing the gap, according to figures released today.
The schools minister Derek Twigg said he was encouraged by evidence showing that the disparity in GCSE standards between black, P*kistani and Bangladeshi pupils was diminishing.
An extra 3.7% of P*kistani students gained GCSEs at A-star to C this year, taking the total number achieving those grades to 45.2%. Among black Caribbean pupils, who have tended to under perform compared with other ethnic groups, 35.7% gained grades at A-star to C, an increase of 2.8% from last year.
Chinese students, traditionally high-achievers in the UK education system, remained at the top, with 74.2% achieving five GCSEs at grades A-star to C, but the total figure dropped 0.6% from last year.
Indian students' GCSE performance was second only to that of their Chinese peers, with a 1.4% increase, taking their total to 66.6%. Bangladeshi pupils' performance improved by 2.9% to 48.4%, while the equivalent figures for pupils in maintained schools were 1.2% and 51.9%.
http://education.guardian.co.uk/gcses2004/story/0,14504,1424480,00.html
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Saida.M
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Posted: Friday February 25th, 2005 10:01 |
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I am not convinced this is an entirely black girls/black boys thing.
Overall girls were doing better than boys anyway, regardless of colour.
It is something to do with how they are taught. For example when boys were doing well, the system was mainly, a straight year's work, end of year exam. Now its mainly coursework, interactive and overall assessments, which apparently suits girls better.
Recently there was a move to improve boys performance and now they are either level or nearly level with the girls.
However, this result does not reflect whether 'black boys' were perhaps left out of this 'drive', hence their apparent poor performance.
Last edited on Friday February 25th, 2005 10:04 by Saida.M
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NativeTongue
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Posted: Friday February 25th, 2005 10:13 |
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Black boys betrayed by racist school system, says report
Hugh Muir and Rebecca Smithers
Tuesday September 7, 2004
Guardian
Black schoolboys have been betrayed by the education authorities for almost half a century and are struggling to overcome racism from many of their own teachers, according to a damning new report out today.
Last year 70% of African-Caribbean boys in London left school with fewer than five or more GCSEs at the top grades of A*-C or equivalent, while African-Caribbean men are the least likely of any group to have a degree.
Their parents told researchers they felt schools did not welcome their input. Black teachers spoke of discrimination. Only 7.4% of London's teachers are from ethnic minorities and 2.9% are black.
The 285-page report, which represents the most exhaustive study to date of the educational underachievement of black boys, concludes that "the English schooling system has produced dismal academic results for a high percentage of black pupils for the best part of 50 years".
Mr Livingstone, who has called for action to ensure that the number of ethnic minority teachers in the capital rises to least 33%, said: "The composition of the teaching staff, governors and other professionals dealing with the education of our children must change dramatically to fully reflect the diversity of London's children."
In the study, conducted under the direction of the mayor's London Development Agency and an advisory board led by MP Diane Abbott, focus groups reached a wide degree of agreement: "The consensus was that low teacher expectations played a major part in the underachievement of African-Caribbean pupils. In addition, inadequate levels of positive teacher attention, unfair behaviour management practices, disproportionately high levels of exclusions and an inappropriate curriculum took their toll."
Pupils were acknowledged to suffer from negative peer pressure and many are said to be disadvantaged by inadequately funded schools with a high turnover of teachers. The insufficient level of involvement by some black parents is also singled out.
The commission also heard evidence of direct discrimination. "Racism manifested itself most harshly in being over looked for answering questions, verbal aggression from teachers and harsher reprimands than for students from other ethnic groups for the same misdemeanour." The report says that relationships between black pupils and white teachers was generally characterised by "conflict and fear". One participant complained: "When it is white boys, it is a 'group' but when it is black boys it is a 'gang'. I think that's wrong."
The commission found that in 2002, black boys started to lag behind from primary school year two. The gap widened every year after that. It plays down the role of social backgrounds because working class boys from other communities outperformed middle class African-Caribbean boys.
In a series of recommendations, the commission calls for intervention on several levels. It urges ministers to give every parent three days a year paid leave so they can play a part in the schooling process. It also says black teachers should benefit from fast-tracking and "golden handshakes".
The commission calls for urgent action to reduce the number of black pupils excluded. Controversially, it suggests that heads should not exclude pupils for a first serious offence unless the catalyst is an incident involving a knife or gun. It calls for clear procedures which would allow pupils to report racism by teachers. But they also call on black parents to play a more proactive role with their children and schools, "regardless of resistance".
Last year the government launched a new package - Aiming High - backed with £10m of extra funding to tackle the problem of African-Caribbean pupils' underachievement in both primary and secondary schools.
Rampton Revisited, The Educational Experiences and Achievements of Black Boys in London Schools , published by the LDA Education Commission.
http://education.guardian.co.uk/racism/story/0,10795,1298791,00.html
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NativeTongue
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Posted: Friday February 25th, 2005 10:17 |
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http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Education/documents/2004/09/07/blackresearch.pdf
Rampton Revisited, The Educational Experiences and Achievements of Black Boys in London Schools , published by the LDA Education Commission.
please, please, please for anyone interested in the education of young black children download and read this report now.
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Saida.M
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Posted: Friday February 25th, 2005 10:19 |
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Same old story ...
Talking about the problems ...
and not getting on with the solutions. 
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Posted: Friday February 25th, 2005 10:25 |
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Athaba
Whats your thoughts on this?
http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackforum/forum32/9074.html
Thats a solution and a way forward IMO.
btw
Incidently I agree with you that its the combination of the two factors. The system is failing boys in general but it is also failing black youth, so its a combination of being black and being a boy. But as NT pointed out there is a special fear of black boys that does not extend elsewhere and not even to black girls. Undeniable.
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Posted: Friday February 25th, 2005 10:35 |
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NT
Just flicking through the Mayor's report you provided (nice one)
And just came acoss a part where he laments the lack of black and asian teachers. Now thats obvious, but where the report is lumping us together with asians is a dangerous tack. If we simply become blacks and asians as opposed to blacks then we know what happens... we get lots of asian teachers and them with their fear and racism towards us...
Asian teachers for us would be as bad if not worse than some of the white ones... thats my opinion.
Also I think he should had stressed the need for more black MALE teachers... Some of the women Ive encountered (here on the board) I would deem completely unsuitable to the task of addressing the problems of black BOYS. More black teachers yes no doubt but its a strong male lead that is needed at that age.
Not someone who already believes the boys are bad and doomed to fail.
Im still reading so Ill get back to you when Im done.
Athaba...
You should have a look at this file and especially the recommendations listed here.
The one from NT I mean
Last edited on Friday February 25th, 2005 10:48 by The Watcher
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Posted: Friday February 25th, 2005 12:01 |
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Boys are easily distracted more. In reality they would be doing much better than girls if they actually cared and concentrated. Too many distactions surrownd you when your a black male teen.
An Educated black woman is less of threat than an educated black man to white people.
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Ahmaad
Villager
| Joined: | Wednesday December 8th, 2004 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 1508 |
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