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yacko
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Posted: Thursday November 25th, 2004 19:36 |
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yo were did u get that mask from it's hot real hot!!!!
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hush
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Posted: Friday November 26th, 2004 11:49 |
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@Trinity5000 I can see some of the points you are making, I am in a bit of a rush so will have to come back later, but as I said before I WENT TO AN ALL BLACK SCHOOL (there was no discrimination it was 1stly a religious institution which happened to have black students (a couple of Filipinoes too) and yes when I left it did feel a little strange having to engage with white people..........Sometimes I think if you want black and only black then why don't you go home(?). You cant come to a cricket match and expect to play tennis???
However I do acknowledge that the current system is failing our children but I'm not 100% convinced that complete segregation is the way to go...........
..........Need to ponder on this some more..........
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday November 26th, 2004 12:22 |
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Why oh why are Black people in the West afraid to empower themselves by defining what is important for them in their terms. i.e. education.
"Oh if we dont interact with whites we will become socially incompetent"
Bollocks. As stated many people come here from countries where there is predominantly one race.. i.e Africa/ Carribean and have no problems with interacting with others.
It seems that some Blacks can only define the struggle in regards to what whites will allow us to do.. i.e. give us jobs/ give us our education.. give us a chance....
Have some damn pride. Black schools for Black children. What you afraid of?
Hence we have all white institutions /and we have Black people busting their nuts to be able to eat at the masters table. Oh they wont give us a chance.. oh how will we be able to work with them.
Anyone with an sense will know that the National Curriculum is diametrically opposed to African children leraning about the world under their own terms and through our own eyes. Why should my child have to learn anout the slave trade from a Euro standpoint. Do people think that white culture is really going to present our history in a favourable light. Considering what they done to get where they are.
We are not the f**king world.
Time to build our own table.
Those that cant see that will be forever slaves in mind.
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merlyn
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Posted: Friday November 26th, 2004 17:07 |
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I've read this thread through twice, and I'm still not entirely sure what I think about all this... however, one or two things did come to mind. It's been a long week, and I'm sharing a braincell with the cat, so please don't be too merciless when you shoot me down in flames...
If an all-black school were to set its own agenda for, say, the teaching of history, or English, a more pertinent, more relevant curriculum would be established. I get that part. But, what about the nitty-gritty of qualifications? The school would presumably still have to teach to GCSE and A level syllabuses, which are pretty much set in stone, and therefore any Afrocentric curriculum could only ever be subsidiary to these exams. (I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to what actually goes on in Jewish, or Muslim schools, so please correct me if I'm wrong.)
So, the real mitigating factor in favour of all-black schools is ethos, right? I can see how this would work -- I've worked in a school whose October 'Black History Month' initiative was to put up a display about Martin Luther King in some cobwebby corner of the library -- but I can't help wondering how I'd feel if a school was established with a 'whites only' policy. I'd almost certainly brand it narrow minded and dangerously divisive. Wouldn't you?
Bleugh. I'm confused. Help me out, anyone?
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The Watcher
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Posted: Friday November 26th, 2004 17:15 |
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As far as the curriculum goes you are quite right its set in stone (with a lil room for manuvere). Legally you need to do your GCSEs and even my imaginary school would have them. You would also get supplementry lessons especially on History, Geography, Politics etc
But the main thing would be the lack of institutionalised racism (vastly underrated here) and the children growing up and learning in a black environment where they can see the structure for themselves with positive black models around them i.e teachers Hush was right about that, more black teachers are in desperate need nowadays but I know thats improving. Quite a few people I know are taking up teaching or already are teaching.
Our own schools ARE the way forward but not all the way. There is still the issues of proper parenting (lack of interest) and POVERTY. Very big factor in the failure of our kids.
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merlyn
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Posted: Friday November 26th, 2004 21:09 |
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@DrunkMonkey
I see -- thanks. I definitely agree that home's just as instrumental in the whole thing as is school. Also think that this environment would allow black children to 'be themselves', rather than forcing them to conform to preconceived models of behaviour / attitude -- not all of them conducive to good grades! From what I can see, it's hard for teenagers to excel when their white friends really, really want to believe they got a baseball bat stashed in their schoolbag and a machete up the handle of their tennis racquet... 
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merlyn
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Posted: Friday November 26th, 2004 21:13 |
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| And yup, that should have been 'friends', complete with the inverted comma type things -- not friends (!?)
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BlackMatta
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Posted: Saturday November 27th, 2004 09:00 |
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Last edited on Sunday February 26th, 2006 12:16 by
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Burning Spear
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Posted: Thursday January 13th, 2005 23:33 |
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| Do you think a school created by and for Africans in the UK is a viable option?
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TahlibaBiko
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 01:13 |
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| Sorry you will have to explain what you mean by viable option?
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Pele
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 02:10 |
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| Yes explain more on what viable option is to you on black schools?
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Burning Spear
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 03:21 |
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| From my reading on this board and other media the British school system is failing African youths ,especially males.That needs to turn around.The system there will bend only so far.Should UK Blacks take charge of their own education?
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The Watcher
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 04:57 |
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Have always advocated this myself in another thread so for me, yes absolutely.
Though I think its more important that we have all African schools for younger children and high school age children. This is when the system throws its best shots at us and really fails black boys.
Last edited on Friday January 14th, 2005 04:58 by The Watcher
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Madam Butterfly
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 05:43 |
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| when we live in a multicultural society, i don't feel that complete segregation is a way forward. However i DO believe that black children should have some time, be it in an after school club or a saturday school, where they ARE taught things like black history, how to be a constructive member of their own communities etc. In fact i think that maybe an hour a week in the regular school week should be set aside for this. If the govt are serious about raising standards and levels of attainment for black children, then why not? Children with english as a second language get that, so whats up with the equal ops for our black boys and girls?
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The Watcher
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 05:58 |
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I disagree.
Our children arent special needs children who need extra classes like handicapped kids. They need an education environment that does not see them as the enemy and ostracise them from day one. Our education system for our people. Its not simply about black history (though that is important) but its about black identity and especially black male pride, which is eroded and under attact in state schools. Why should my boy be a 'threat' in school with an 'attitude' problem.... no thanks that sh*tstem is not for mine.
As adults in further education its not necessary. There you should be able to handle things as an adult with strong sense of self. Indeed its imporant to face the world as it is. As a teen however one shouldnt be exposed to those subtle racist pressures at such an important formative time.
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MsPnutt
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 09:17 |
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excellent point @ DM
i believe young black children, especially in their formative years from kindergarten to graduating high school should be taught seperately... especially by black teachers...and certain subjects and lessons taught seperately
apart from the obvious curriculum, they should be taught african history, let them learn what we have been through, how we have grown, what is holding us down and how we can over come it.
and i believe the boys apart from the academic stuff, should also learn practical skills, like maintenance, construction, business management, agriculture, etc. hey u get the occasional tom girl that loves cars.. also encourage that.
emphasis should also be made on spirituality, morals.. self esteem and confidence can only come from self knowledge and acceptance.
lets start them off early and raise our future right... they are the most vulnerable at their formative years, this i when we should step in.
its not impossible...
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 09:32 |
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yep
I agree
not only school for blacks
but also seperate genders
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babygirl44
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 09:55 |
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I don't agree that there should be segregation. There is basically segregation between Muslim schools and white schools in the North of England and because they never interact with eachother they know nothing about others and therefore become suspicious of eachother causing race fighting.
I can't see the point in having a all black school because they need to know how to interact with white people from an early age otherwise it will just be a shock to them when they get a job.
Instead I support a weekend or after school clubs. I was brought up in a very Greek dominated area of London (Palmers Greek as we called it) and once a week after school and every saturday, all of the greek kids would go to Greek School where they would learn their language, their religion and culture so that they understood who they were. It worked well because they could interact with the english but knew who they were. In addition the greek kids all had a very close bond with eachother becauce they all knew eachother from greek school and therefore outside of school they tended to stick together.
Furthermore because they were in Greek school for at least twice a week, they weren't hanging aroud in the street. I think that this could work better than an all out black school. In addition, where would the biracials who identified with their black side go? Would the Seven Day Adventists want to be in the same schoool as the Muslims? Once you go down that road, you'd have to have separate schools for every difference.
I do believe in single sex schools though.
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 10:41 |
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Educational "underachievement" of African children in UK schools has been a fact of life for over 40 years. This should come as no surprise, since I know of no reason why Europeans would wish to teach African children to grow up and give orders to their own children. That might possibly challenge white supremacy.
There are frequent calls for "black schools" in response to this longstanding state of affairs. Yet few such schools have been established in the past 40 years, although the Saturday Schools movement continues to flourish.
One can only conclude that African parents are happy to hand their children over so as to be the continuing victims of further generations of mental genocide. Otherwise, they would do something about it.
So far as colleges are concerned - which I am interpreting to mean post-18 education - the damage might already have been done, although where there is life, there must be hope. Again, I am not aware of any such institutions, other than a few that whites may be boycotting because of the poor standards, which mean that they have become de facto African colleges, albeit with poor quality European teaching and managerial staff.
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Backatya
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 11:15 |
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Babygirl44 does not believe there should be segregation in education? Babygirl does this mean you are against Religious-Denomination schools, All-Girls schools, All-Boys schools and Private Schools?
All of these are a form of segregation. However, the ‘rational’ for them (certainly by those who advocate them) are that their cater to a particular need, or are ‘better suited to meet the requirements’ of an identified group whose needs are not catered for adequately by the general/public-non-segregated-school-system. Or who, due to the inherent nature of the public school system, receive no real benefit from the general school system. If you can see and accept the rationale for the type of schools |I mention about, it should follows that you are able to see and accept the rationale for schools catering specifically for the need requirements of African/Black children in a Non-African/Black Society.
In any case, when the notion of African/Black schools/colleges is put forward the word ‘segregation’ pops up like some kind of ‘dirty’ word not used in polite society. But we live in a largely Segregated Society anyway. Don’t let the term ‘Multi-cultural Society fool you – that does not mean it is not segregated. Segregation does not have to be done on the basis of some ‘Legislative’ or ‘Deliberately Conscious’ act, it can be quite subtle or enshrined in a Society’s custom and practice. It does not have to be ‘physical’ either. If the effect is to bar, limit or put at a disadvantage the rights and entitlement afforded to those outside of the ‘chosen group’ it is inherently wrong……whether one actually calls it ‘Segregation’ or not.
But that aside, ‘segregation’ (in the emotional sense of the word) is not an appropriate label for what is being advocated with African/Black schools/colleges. No one is talking about a ‘Black only society’ or about a concept of ‘privileges affordable only to Blacks and not others.
What we are talking about is a (possible) solution to very real problems faced by African/Black children (and boys especially) when being taught in the general school system. Problems such as not achieving, or being perceived as not achieving, to the level or degree of ‘other groups’ taught under that system. Problems about the attitudes and expectations of those in the general school system who are ‘entrusted’ with the job of educating.
When as a result African/Black people, (boys/men in particular) are singled out (segregated) for criticism time and time again for, among other things, ‘lack of ambition and achievement’ is it not natural for African/Black people to look to some means of addressing this? African/Black schools/colleges is only one of many strategies we can adopt to tackle the very real problems of disadvantage we face.
There is now ‘integration’ in top class hotels where both blacks and whites can stay - whoopee, hail the death of apartheid. Funny though how those doing the cleaning and slopping out are mainly from one ‘group’ and those dealing with ‘operational’ and ‘management’ things are mainly from another ‘group’. Well if that is in part down to education then it can be said that the group doing the cleaning and slopping out need a system that works better for them.
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babygirl44
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 11:39 |
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@Bakatya
I totally respect your point of view and much of what you sayis valid, however, I still don't necessarily agree. I still think that if you are going to work with whites at some point, exposing yourself to them at school will make you understand their ways better and will prepare you for the sh*t your going to get at work. Plus where are the biracials going to go? Again, the only segregation I support is sex related as sexual feelings between teenagers takes their focus from doing well academically.
I know 3 people who went to a black school in Tottenham (It was an adventists school but everyone was black) anyway the standards there were horrendous and it was mainly because they were not a state school (as religious schools have to be private or part-private) the parents were not rich like those of Eton and they couldn't afford the quality of teachers and school materials and 2 of the kids got pulled out of the school by their parents at 14 because although they wanted their kids to be in a black school they knew the government were not going to support it financially as they don't support segregation religious or race related and they couldn't let their kids suffer educationally because of an ideal.
Plus lets not to forget that although schools are institutionally racist, some of the blame for black kids doing badly in school has to lay at the door of the parents because when I was in school my dad was always on my case to do homework and helped me with it as best he could. In addition he was very hardcore in making sure I went every day and did well. I did see an awful lot of kids both black and white whose parents could barely be bothered to turn up to a parents evening and the teachers could tell some kids nothing.
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Backatya
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 11:52 |
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@ Babygirl44
I think you may be getting the wrong idea of what is being suggested here. We (well me at any rate) are not saying that we should have segregated with whites going to whites only school, blacks going to black only schools etc. The idea is to have African/Black schools so the option is there.
Furhermore, it is not, as I said before, about a Black only society, it is about having schools which better cater to the needs of blacks where it is seen that general state schools are not.
Another thing the example of the 3 people you know is hardly an indictment of African/Black schools now is it. By whose analysis were the standards horrendous, theirs? From that you go on to determine that because it was not a state school the standards were bad?
Let me say, your evidence would not stand up to much in court
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Parris
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 12:23 |
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See I don’t see it as the education system failing us. I must give more credit to the power of the black mind.
2+2=4 is to whites just as it does to blacks….by saying whites can learn but blacks can’t…when they are sitting side by side with each other, leaves one to believe that there are those though think…
…..Black are stupid or simple can’t learn.
I believe the problem is the life that black children face when they leave school. What type of neighborhoods are they going too? What type of home environment do they have? The standard of education is far FAR Better than in was during the height of the American civil rights movement….but we seem to be having more and more problems.
The education system got better………..so what went wrong?
…the degradation of our community.
Immediately following slavery and during reconstruction Black parents were more concerned that their children had an education. The importance of education was fostered in the community. That is what is missing now.
How can we raise our children in black only schools, and then send them out to a majority white society? In a multi-cultural, multi-racial, society separation does not work…………in America it was tried before.
As a solution I would create programs that would involve the parents more in the educational paths of their children. If a child is struggling in school the program would hold tutoring sessions (say every Saturday) with the student and parent. And sadly to say it would have to be mandatory! Because if parents don’t have to go…they won’t.
And subsidize it with educational funds so that “I have to work on Saturday� won’t be an excuse for not paying attention to your child’s education.
PaRrIs
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babygirl44
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 13:21 |
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@Bakatya
I hear you, maybe 1 school is representative of what can happen and your right its good for parents to have an option but in the short term the easiest option is definately an after school or weekend club. This can be run by succefful black men and by that I mean good role models not just accountants and lawyers to act as mentors and teach the black boys that there is something they can aspire to. This will give men some of the control over their communities that they are obviously crying out for judging by a couple of other threads. It would only take a few hours a week and I don't mean just going there to teach them football and sports but to help them with homework etc and show teach them their history so they can regain a sense of pride.
In relation to the current state system, however, I still maintain that the fault is not all down to the system. Many parents just don't teach their kids the value of an education. My sister is 16 years older than me and I child of the 60s/70's and my male cousins of her age all got through school with minimum trouble, without getting expelled and at least getting an average level of qualifications. Back then the whole of society was 10 times more racist but them and many others achieved this. School is less racist now then it was then but why are so many black boys at 16 leaving school barely able to read and write and speak properly now? It is the environment that they live in and peer pressure which states that education is for white people. Some are more interested in being an MC or playing for Arsenal than getting an 'A' level and the system isn't the only one to blame. My daddy told me that it don't matter what the teacher says to you, make sure your top of the class and you will have to work 10 times more than the white children, nowadays many parents are not giving kids that kind of help and its sad.
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africanmix22
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