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Bacoo
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 13:32 |
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If not, then why not??
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DSP
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 13:46 |
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Alot of universities(both the black and white ones) are failing when it comes to undergraduate students. Now grad school is a different story.
I have a story about my experience 'hanging out' at one of the nearby HBCU's. I'll talk about it when I do my next version of DSP's true stories.
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Black_Power
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 14:06 |
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| too many women...obvious distaction
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DSP
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 14:17 |
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Black_Power wrote: too many women...obvious distaction
One big reason I didn't go. In a sense I should have gone to one. I had recieved a scholarship into a program(Florida A&M University) that now has an employment rate of 90% AND many go on to gradschool as well.
My roomate and I would drive down for some of the HBCU's homecoming and be like Oooh My God. Going to a predominantly white school day in and day out makes you appreciate HBCU's and their events. We went to about 2 or 3 every year. Outside of the eye candy and feeling like you were in momentary paradise it was fun to see how all the different black cultures interacted (NY-NorthEast, Chicago/Detroit-Midwest, Atlanta-South, Cali-West, Texas and Florida, and foreign blacks).
There were alot of black students at our school anyway. We had our own cultural center there so it was like having a black school within the white school. What cracked us up was the look on white parents faces when they saw all the black students that attended the school...LOL!!
Last edited on Wednesday September 27th, 2006 14:19 by DSP
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Burning Spear
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 15:36 |
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| This thread has been beaten to death.I graduated from Howard University in Washington DC and wouldn't trade it for anythig in the world.
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jett Black
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 16:17 |
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Hellz yeah,I would have loved to have gone to a British equivalent of Spellman or Morehouse.
Why???
Just because it would have been great to be around 1000's of Black folks getting their learn on.....plus i'm sure there would have been some quite shaggable professors too.
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DSP
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 16:31 |
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jett Black wrote: Hellz yeah,I would have loved to have gone to a British equivalent of Spellman or Morehouse.
Why???
Just because it would have been great to be around 1000's of Black folks getting their learn on.....plus i'm sure there would have been some quite shaggable professors too.
LOL@ British equivalent 
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FredB
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 16:45 |
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Depends what you want or seek to achieve by attending university. But I hear ya Black Power because to me that would be a serious distraction being aruond a whole heap of bright black women as a young man.
Sorry Jet Black now having renounced the name Sexual Choclate. Professor aren't allowed to shag students unless they are white and outside of Africa or the Caribbean that is.
If you want to study in a place which is balanced by your social considerations as being important then a black school may be good. If I take most black institutions that I know of as a model, I would not want to attend them. In fact Burning Spears Howard would be one of the few exception because it is not a coconut factory. Spellman and those places forget it.
If you are largely focused on the reputation or wanting to attend a school or reknown excellence then whether it is black of not is irrelevent. You will probably end up in a white university. That may also be important for your future working career and progress in your feild.
Very few future employers are going to put Spellman or what is the other one Moorhouse against Yale, MIT and those kinda places despite them having good faculties in say law and medicine.
The same applies for your work and career because the majority of black university teachers or academics in this country no matter how they go on or talk about racism would prefer to be in an white internationally recognised elite institution than a black one or one with a disproportionate black or ethnic minority intake.
I also actually believe being a minority in a predominate white institution can be really good for you as a potentially high performer, because the odds are against you so you have to rise big time to rule. This creates a level of standard of work or simply a way of being and thinking and operating technically which will give you a massive advantage in the real world.
FB
Last edited on Wednesday September 27th, 2006 16:48 by FredB
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DSP
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 21:43 |
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FredB wrote: Depends what you want or seek to achieve by attending university. But I hear ya Black Power because to me that would be a serious distraction being aruond a whole heap of bright black women as a young man.
Sorry Jet Black now having renounced the name Sexual Choclate. Professor aren't allowed to shag students unless they are white and outside of Africa or the Caribbean that is.
If you want to study in a place which is balanced by your social considerations as being important then a black school may be good. If I take most black institutions that I know of as a model, I would not want to attend them. In fact Burning Spears Howard would be one of the few exception because it is not a coconut factory. Spellman and those places forget it.
If you are largely focused on the reputation or wanting to attend a school or reknown excellence then whether it is black of not is irrelevent. You will probably end up in a white university. That may also be important for your future working career and progress in your feild.
Very few future employers are going to put Spellman or what is the other one Moorhouse against Yale, MIT and those kinda places despite them having good faculties in say law and medicine.
The same applies for your work and career because the majority of black university teachers or academics in this country no matter how they go on or talk about racism would prefer to be in an white internationally recognised elite institution than a black one or one with a disproportionate black or ethnic minority intake.
I also actually believe being a minority in a predominate white institution can be really good for you as a potentially high performer, because the odds are against you so you have to rise big time to rule. This creates a level of standard of work or simply a way of being and thinking and operating technically which will give you a massive advantage in the real world.
FB
FB,
Most corporations go to black universities to recruite when they want to hire minority employees, so it's not such a bad idea career wise. Many have relationships with these companies. Also the HBCU's are more apt to teach students to be entrepeneurs and how to go about that as opposed to being a modern day indentured servant.
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FredB
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 21:57 |
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@DSP you are educating me on that one. That is a positive development or practice. But the empirical and statistical question and how I would look at it is which institution is most likely to get me what I want. So if the big companies go to Black universities are they less or more likely to get the job you want going to school A or B and then the other considerations already mentioned.
How do they compare in real terms....or is there no real difference....
FB
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FredB
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 22:05 |
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@DSP just remembered would the same apply if you wanted to be a scientist, a expert in technology or advanced engineering or a career in medicine, an academic, and a whole heap of other feilds outside business and commerce?
I would have thought white institutions would have a massive advantage in those areas?
FB
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Bacoo
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Posted: Wednesday September 27th, 2006 23:10 |
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FredB wrote: @DSP just remembered would the same apply if you wanted to be a scientist, a expert in technology or advanced engineering or a career in medicine, an academic, and a whole heap of other feilds outside business and commerce?
I would have thought white institutions would have a massive advantage in those areas?
FB
Probably not at the Bachelors degree level but possibly at the PHD or Masters level depending upon the major.
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Gmahogany
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Posted: Thursday September 28th, 2006 13:49 |
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If you list the names of Blacks in AMerica who have made any kind of profound impact on this country or are the movers and shakers of our community, almost ALL of them, attended an HBCU. That is not an accident.
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Posted: Thursday September 28th, 2006 16:22 |
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@Ghamahogny...You may have made the case for the opposition. The world of knowledge and expertise is not limited to liberal arts, humanities, social sciences and a few law graduates.
I don't think if you look at the numbers and the amount of time these institutions have been around that the actual numbers of movers and shakers are that significant.
I agree though you will probably get more of that type of indivdidual in black universities than a white one....But that is only one function of higher education. What about the absence of leaders in the areas of science, technology, advanced medical research, military and natural sciences and I can go on...Where are the national and international accolades given to our people and institutions in these areas.
When Marcus Garvey made one of his most memorable speeches about what it takes to make a people a world power he said where are our men and women of high office our scientists and inventors etc. He did not simply concentrate on the social sciences, humanities and liberal arts as important as they are etc..
@Baco I hear ya and similar to most countries really. But I think black institutions would simply be unable to compete in the areas I mentioned. For one the contribution made by rich black entertainers, sports personalities and businesses is quite small and insignificant. Oprah and few others can't do it all by themselves...
FB
Last edited on Thursday September 28th, 2006 16:24 by FredB
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Burning Spear
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Posted: Thursday September 28th, 2006 17:07 |
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FredB,
You disappoint me.As someone plugged into the African experience in the diaspora ,you diatribe in summation belitted HBCU's in one fell swoop.
I could go on and on about what HBCU grads have don ein this country and the world.I can show the contributions coporations make to these institutions.But I'll just post this link.The out of the thousands of univerisites in the United States Howard is ranked #88.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php
#2 for recruiting minorities for MBA's
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115567284227436447-search.html?KEYWORDS=howard+university&COLLECTION=wsjie/6month
I really hope people in the diaspora thin that something that all black is inferior.
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Gmahogany
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Posted: Thursday September 28th, 2006 17:37 |
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| @FRed, Wow! I'm suprised at your response,too. I don't have the time to get into the varied fields, that HBCU grads have made an impact on, either, including medicine with schools like Meharry medical school. I'll just say this for now. If it wasn't for a graduate of a historically Black University, all the Negroes who DO now attend white universities, would not have been able to, cause crackers had the law set up to prevent u from doing so,lol. Thurgood Marshall attended Howard, when the University of Maryland would not let him in because he was Black. He proceeded to argue and WIN most of the important legal cases (regarding race)of the century, before the Supreme Court.
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Posted: Thursday September 28th, 2006 18:01 |
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Bacoo,
I did attend a HBCU( Spelman College) for a while, but I didn't like it. Would I attend another HBCU? If I had to, it would be Howard University. In general, I cannot say what I will and what I won't do, but the problem that I have with some HBCU's are 1) In my case, you find some hyprocrisy on there 2) Unless you have been to an HBCU like Morehouse, Spelman, Howard or Hampton, you're may not be considered as highly for job prospects( and I'm no saying it's just because it is not, education is education)3) Most of the HBCU's are more than some of the predominnatly White mixed colleges( another unfortunate problem) 4) I want to be exposed to the real world. Don't get me wrong, it can be nice learning about yourself and your people, but as reality is , how many of us is going to always work for a predominately Black company with all Black people in it? It's very rare.If I had any children and if they want to go to an HBCU or non-HBCU I wouldn't stop them from and if they ask me about my opinion about it, I'm going to be honest, but in a way that will only be my thoughts and not theirs. I would just like to for them to get a good college educaiton
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Posted: Thursday September 28th, 2006 18:07 |
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Burning Spear wrote: FredB,
You disappoint me.As someone plugged into the African experience in the diaspora ,you diatribe in summation belitted HBCU's in one fell swoop.
I could go on and on about what HBCU grads have don ein this country and the world.I can show the contributions coporations make to these institutions.But I'll just post this link.The out of the thousands of univerisites in the United States Howard is ranked #88.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php
#2 for recruiting minorities for MBA's
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115567284227436447-search.html?KEYWORDS=howard+university&COLLECTION=wsjie/6month
I really hope people in the diaspora thin that something that all black is inferior.
Many Black folks DO believe that, no matter where we are from, quiet as it's kept. It's impossible to have a top notch education unless you are sitting next to, or being taught by, a Cracker(btw, I split my education between an HBCU and a large public white University, and believe me, there are PLENTY of mediocre white universities). All of the Black folks who were the architects of the strategy to allow our Black asses to attend White Universities and look down our noses at Black ones, attended HBCU's. The Nerve.
At any rate, we can't all graduate from Yale, and be paragons of intellectualism like George W. Bush...........
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Burning Spear
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Posted: Thursday September 28th, 2006 19:10 |
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CeeCee wrote: Bacoo,
I did attend a HBCU( Spelman College) for a while, but I didn't like it. Would I attend another HBCU? If I had to, it would be Howard University. In general, I cannot say what I will and what I won't do, but the problem that I have with some HBCU's are 1) In my case, you find some hyprocrisy on there 2) Unless you have been to an HBCU like Morehouse, Spelman, Howard or Hampton, you're may not be considered as highly for job prospects( and I'm no saying it's just because it is not, education is education)3) Most of the HBCU's are more than some of the predominnatly White mixed colleges( another unfortunate problem) 4) I want to be exposed to the real world. Don't get me wrong, it can be nice learning about yourself and your people, but as reality is , how many of us is going to always work for a predominately Black company with all Black people in it? It's very rare.If I had any children and if they want to go to an HBCU or non-HBCU I wouldn't stop them from and if they ask me about my opinion about it, I'm going to be honest, but in a way that will only be my thoughts and not theirs. I would just like to for them to get a good college educaiton
I just crack up  when I hear people say they want a real world experience.
Many who say that come from 1) a predominantly Black neighborhood, 2) attended a predominantly Black High School, 3) grew up in predominantly Black family  and 4) probably grew up in a predominantly Black city with a Black mayor!
Yet these same folks refuse to attend a Predominantly Black College because it's not the "real world". What world do they want to experience then - a fantasy one   Go figure...
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Posted: Friday September 29th, 2006 11:46 |
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Burning Spear wrote: CeeCee wrote: Bacoo,
I did attend a HBCU( Spelman College) for a while, but I didn't like it. Would I attend another HBCU? If I had to, it would be Howard University. In general, I cannot say what I will and what I won't do, but the problem that I have with some HBCU's are 1) In my case, you find some hyprocrisy on there 2) Unless you have been to an HBCU like Morehouse, Spelman, Howard or Hampton, you're may not be considered as highly for job prospects( and I'm no saying it's just because it is not, education is education)3) Most of the HBCU's are more than some of the predominnatly White mixed colleges( another unfortunate problem) 4) I want to be exposed to the real world. Don't get me wrong, it can be nice learning about yourself and your people, but as reality is , how many of us is going to always work for a predominately Black company with all Black people in it? It's very rare.If I had any children and if they want to go to an HBCU or non-HBCU I wouldn't stop them from and if they ask me about my opinion about it, I'm going to be honest, but in a way that will only be my thoughts and not theirs. I would just like to for them to get a good college educaiton
I just crack up when I hear people say they want a real world experience.
Many who say that come from 1) a predominantly Black neighborhood, 2) attended a predominantly Black High School, 3) grew up in predominantly Black family and 4) probably grew up in a predominantly Black city with a Black mayor!
Yet these same folks refuse to attend a Predominantly Black College because it's not the "real world". What world do they want to experience then - a fantasy one Go figure...
I'm always perplexed by that, as well. First of all, it implies that a world where Black folks are running things, is not "real", or "legitimate", but some weird anomaly, voodoo experience of sorts,lol. Second of all, I don't care how many Black schools you attend, you will have AMPLE time and opportunity to learn Cracker ways. You will get your phucking FILL, of white folks and THEIR idealologies, through every media, outlet, AND societal institution, INCLUDING SOME BLACK UNIVERSITIES,LOL. The small amount of time, you are allowed to spend in an All or majority Black space/framework, should just be seen as a respite and fortification of your mind and spirit against the friggin AVALANCHE, of ALL THINGS, CRACKER, that you will SURELY be subjected to, for the overwhelming majority of your time here on Earth,lol.
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CashMoney
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Posted: Friday September 29th, 2006 12:52 |
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Burning Spear wrote: I just crack up when I hear people say they want a real world experience.
Many who say that come from 1) a predominantly Black neighborhood, 2) attended a predominantly Black High School, 3) grew up in predominantly Black family and 4) probably grew up in a predominantly Black city with a Black mayor!
Yet these same folks refuse to attend a Predominantly Black College because it's not the "real world". What world do they want to experience then - a fantasy one Go figure...
When you put it like that it is hard to argue
!
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Posted: Monday October 2nd, 2006 00:00 |
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@Ghmahogany. Surprised why? My position and question is very simple and clear if you care to read it before commenting. Examine the whole range of disciplines involved in knowledge required to educate a socitey and civilisaton and the examples of their success is always in a very limited area. What has Thurgood Marshall got to do with the issue?.
The issue for me is where is the best place to aquire the widest range of technical expertise, not the history of the civil rights movement. You are more concerned with politics which has nothing to do with my argument or comments but technical expertise etc. The question is what are the basic considerations I or anybody would keep in mind in choosing a university or advising someone..
Students from my experience do not put politics amongst their primary concerns for going to a university.
In fact you spoke about movers and shakers but they are all in a very limited number of areas, as I already mentioned. What about science and technolgoy and many other crucial areas eg. applied mathematics, phsyics, marine engineering and I can go on all day and night...Even in social sciences eg Anthropology or applied Social Science the case can be made. Black universities do not carry out major extensive research of the type you find in many other US mainstream institutions, such as Rutgers or Chicago University. I was looking at the research work being undertaken by Asante's university, the name of which has slipped me for now (Temple University). Very impressive and interesting work, but all small scale stuff.
For example you mentioned one medical school and Moorehouse has another but they simply cannot compete with the best medical schools and anybody who knows about that area will tell you that. They cannot undertake genetic research, to take one simple example.
What has that got to do with sitting with white people? My arguments are crystal clear so why don't you respond to them not pass them. You may not appreciate what makes a school of excellence and that has far more involved than to do than white people. It's about being able to purchase and hier the best in most key things that matter. Do you know how much being a major research centre costs annually?
The ugly realities of life suggest that statistically sittting next to white people may mean the more likelihood that you will be using the state of the art equipment or exposed to the lastest thinking by those leading those developments etc. This has a direct impact on the education and training of graduates and post graduates. My argument is not a normative one of you ought to be educated in white institutions opposed to black ones, but an objective one in terms of the best way to maximise your expertise in a large number of areas. Simple and not complicated.
I don't expect black universities to be able to compete because they simply do not have the money. Money and expertise is intrinsicially linked in modern society. Do you know ho |
