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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Saturday July 8th, 2006 23:40 |
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Media Spotlight, Sunday July 09 from 9am on Colourful: Should the history of the British Empire be taught in schools?
Should the history of the British Empire be taught in schools?
The body that regulates the national curriculum - the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority has announced plans to introduce extended teaching of the history of the British Empire for the 11-14 age group.
Tensions are already mounting as for years there have been repeated calls for black history to be made part of the curriculum and whilst these calls have been ignored the British Empire has suddenly jumped to the top of the queue.
The questions we are asking our listeners this week are:
1. Should the history of the British Empire be taught and if so by whom and from what perspective?
2. Do you think that teachers need additional training on how to teach history from a world view rather than from a purely European viewpoint?
This week's guests are Professor Gus John, in the studio is Dr Lorna Cork, author of the book: Supporting Black Pupils & Parents. British-born Dr Mark Christian, Associate Professor of Black Studies at Miami University in Ohio, USA who has been in the UK on a flying visit.
To take part in the programme call 0800 8400 194 or email http://www.colourfulradio.com
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Saturday July 8th, 2006 23:42 |
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Note: the email address is:
mediaspotlight@colourfulradio.com
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Soulstarr
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Posted: Sunday July 9th, 2006 10:40 |
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@ MGL: I only just saw this thread so missed the show  What was it like?
Anyway, clearly, black history is not going to be made part of the curriculum any time soon so yes, the history of the British Empire should be taught in all of its gory, negative truth. Maybe then people would realise this place isn't the land of hope and glory that people make it out to be. Its a cess pit built on lies and the blood of other people. 
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conscious sistah
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Posted: Wednesday July 19th, 2006 23:07 |
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The Brtish Empire was one of my A level units. it was taught in such a biased, mediocre way it was unbelievable. I was soooooooo pissed at the way it was taught. Thank god I have two levels of education, and I know the truth.There was one source in one of these past papers which was a letter written by 2 Cameroonian Kings, inviting the British to rule them, as they couldn't. In addition they begged for Christianity to civilize Cameroon immediately. So what the curriculum is basically trying to infer is that the empire was developed and maintained through a mixture of force and collaboration, hence conveying the picture that they were not brutes and bullies. My teacher even said, as welll as one lecturer i was interviewed by at one of the universities i am was planning to go to, was "The english was the most civillized and good natured colonial powers in comparison to the rest". Anything to alleviate blame, or to make themselves look good.
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday July 20th, 2006 19:41 |
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conscious sistah wrote:
The Brtish Empire was one of my A level units. it was taught in such a biased, mediocre way it was unbelievable. I was soooooooo pissed at the way it was taught. Thank god I have two levels of education, and I know the truth.There was one source in one of these past papers which was a letter written by 2 Cameroonian Kings, inviting the British to rule them, as they couldn't. In addition they begged for Christianity to civilize Cameroon immediately. So what the curriculum is basically trying to infer is that the empire was developed and maintained through a mixture of force and collaboration, hence conveying the picture that they were not brutes and bullies. My teacher even said, as welll as one lecturer i was interviewed by at one of the universities i am was planning to go to, was "The english was the most civillized and good natured colonial powers in comparison to the rest". Anything to alleviate blame, or to make themselves look good.
Wow!! Was your course really that blatant. If I had more time on my hands I would take up one of these courses just to give the teacher pure trouble. It would be great fun and strangely theraupeutic / one day to look forward to in the week/ like playing footie on Wednesdays.
All I'm frightened of is the information slipping through to my child while they are enrolled in babylon school system. Man these days you got to interograte your youth about what they learn at school just to made sure these arrogrant superior attitudes are not slipped in the back door.
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conscious sistah
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Posted: Thursday July 20th, 2006 21:37 |
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mansamusa wrote: conscious sistah wrote:
The Brtish Empire was one of my A level units. it was taught in such a biased, mediocre way it was unbelievable. I was soooooooo pissed at the way it was taught. Thank god I have two levels of education, and I know the truth.There was one source in one of these past papers which was a letter written by 2 Cameroonian Kings, inviting the British to rule them, as they couldn't. In addition they begged for Christianity to civilize Cameroon immediately. So what the curriculum is basically trying to infer is that the empire was developed and maintained through a mixture of force and collaboration, hence conveying the picture that they were not brutes and bullies. My teacher even said, as welll as one lecturer i was interviewed by at one of the universities i am was planning to go to, was "The english was the most civillized and good natured colonial powers in comparison to the rest". Anything to alleviate blame, or to make themselves look good.
Wow!! Was your course really that blatant. If I had more time on my hands I would take up one of these courses just to give the teacher pure trouble. It would be great fun and strangely theraupeutic / one day to look forward to in the week/ like playing footie on Wednesdays.
All I'm frightened of is the information slipping through to my child while they are enrolled in babylon school system. Man these days you got to interograte your youth about what they learn at school just to made sure these arrogrant superior attitudes are not slipped in the back door.
Yes, it really was that blatant. I just learned the false information to pass that exam. My friends and I routinely were vexated during certain lessons,as it was at times inconcievable to believe that they were actually teaching this nonsense, and in turn indoctrinating students, who dont know any better. The Asian students in my class were equally appalled, especially when examining the period when the British was in India, and how a conservative historian (forgot his name) was saying that empire was a brilliant occurence and how it benefited India enormously as it became a democratic more civilized nation. We were made to watch this by our teacher, becasue i believe he wanted us to develop a positive outlook on empire, like himself, and not see it in a negative light. He also was reading this racist historians book, on how the british empire civilized the world.We definitely have to question our children about what they are learning in schools, the more we know, the more the needed cause for action, and challenge that is needed against the british education system. Parents also need to educate their children on the "real stuff" so they can discard all the rubbish that they are taught in school, and know that their are two levels of education, the stuff they need to know to pass exams and the knowledge for self betterment and enlightment.
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Sunday July 23rd, 2006 22:56 |
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This may assist you:
British Empire lessons must be treated with caution, says historian
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obal85
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Posted: Sunday July 23rd, 2006 23:40 |
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| The teaching of the British Empire in Schools is a whitemans' justification for the atrocities (ie. federation of African states like Nigeria, Ghana, Sierra Leone to name but a few) they committed during colonialism in Africa and the West Indies and they are not ashamed to take pride in it based on countless Television documetaries they make about colonialism every year. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to know that the federation of African states by Britain, Portugal, Spain, Belgium and France had led to bloody inter-tribal conflicts in Africa emanating from jealousy, corruption and domination by larger tribes over smaller tribes. Last edited on Sunday July 23rd, 2006 23:45 by obal85
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Monday July 24th, 2006 22:57 |
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Concious sistah
Agree wholeheartily..at least you had the awareness and education to be aware of the bull..many including myself at that age didnt have clue/ or didnt have enough tangible examples to call up on that could sucessfully counter their claims.
Thinking on my feet I dont think its enough to ask parents (many of whom are ignorant or not well versed enough in their history or maybe not good teachers) to expect to teach the bulk of our children their history. Most white children parents are thick as two planks but they get a sense of their version of history in everyday media and life. I think ideally it should be a organsied schools that deal with our history. But thats another story..
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Osborne told Black Britain: “You can’t give an unbalanced narrative. If they are going to give a narrative it has to be balanced. You are going to have to include the so called wonderful parts that they love to celebrate as well as the not so great parts. That involves the Trans-Atlantic slave trade!�
What are these wonderful parts about the British empire. There was nothing positive about the British empire. Not one thing at all. To allow them to teach even so called limited benefits is a direct contradiction to African history though African eyes.
Benefits indeed.
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conscious sistah
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Posted: Tuesday July 25th, 2006 00:29 |
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mansamusa wrote: Concious sistah
Agree wholeheartily..at least you had the awareness and education to be aware of the bull..many including myself at that age didnt have clue/ or didnt have enough tangible examples to call up on that could sucessfully counter their claims.
Thinking on my feet I dont think its enough to ask parents (many of whom are ignorant or not well versed enough in their history or maybe not good teachers) to expect to teach the bulk of our children their history.
yeah i agree with this a lot of parents are not well versed in our history to counter the BS.
Most white children parents are thick as two planks but they get a sense of their version of history in everyday media and life. I think ideally it should be a organsied schools that deal with our history. But thats another story..
I definitely agree with this, and constantly stress this.
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Osborne told Black Britain: “You can’t give an unbalanced narrative. If they are going to give a narrative it has to be balanced. You are going to have to include the so called wonderful parts that they love to celebrate as well as the not so great parts. That involves the Trans-Atlantic slave trade!�
What are these wonderful parts about the British empire. There was nothing positive about the British empire. Not one thing at all. To allow them to teach even so called limited benefits is a direct contradiction to African history though African eyes.
Benefits indeed.
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skittlebrow
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Posted: Tuesday July 25th, 2006 23:57 |
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Yes, the good and the bad of British colonialism should be taught to youngsters. The massacres and the creation of proper civil societies in equal measure.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 00:20 |
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skittlebrow wrote: Yes, the good and the bad of British colonialism should be taught to youngsters.
The massacres and the creation of proper civil societies in equal measure.
Can you please explain to me where this took place?
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conscious sistah
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 01:41 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: skittlebrow wrote: Yes, the good and the bad of British colonialism should be taught to youngsters.
The massacres and the creation of proper civil societies in equal measure.
Can you please explain to me where this took place?
DM that is what i would like to know. You sound like some of the history material I had to endure.
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skittlebrow
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 01:45 |
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Guys I am part South African, if anyone has a legitimate grudge against Imperialism in Africa its me, we only overcame it a decade or so ago.
We do however have to acknowledge that where the British ruled, they did establish systems of legal procedure, professional judicaries, a professional civil service, quality roads, bridges and a host of other infrastructure.
The building blocks of civil society, esp when one considers that they too introduced the concept of multiparty politics, and the modern systems we operate on.
It was bad, but it had a silver lining.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 02:07 |
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skittlebrow wrote: Guys I am part South African, if anyone has a legitimate grudge against Imperialism in Africa its me, we only overcame it a decade or so ago.
We do however have to acknowledge that where the British ruled, they did establish systems of legal procedure, professional judicaries, a professional civil service, quality roads, bridges and a host of other infrastructure.
In order to build and establish these things they had to tear down the equivalent ones which already existed and worked for milenia. The result is that the ones they set up fall apart and have not succeeded anywhere on the continent. You can not implant a system belonging and developed in one continent into another one.
Besides, the British throughout Africa ruled with governers appointed by Royal decree in Britain sent out... they ruled for Britain and in Britains interest in a complete dictatorial style which was alien tothe continent by my gosh we picked that up very quickly didn't we... Great benefit THAT example was.
The bridges, railroads and so on through out the continent if you will note, all go from the interior outwards. There are there to get to the minerals and get them out asap without fuss. In addition they were a massive militrary aid in destroying the peoples that already existed there. Where before an army had to trek through the veld to go fighting Africans the train mean their supplys and reinforcements were not far behind. Look it up man, that's why they were put there.
You also assume left to himself that the African wouldn't have developed at his own pace or trading on an equal footing for those these he needed.
The building blocks of civil society, esp when one considers that they too introduced the concept of multiparty politics, and the modern systems we operate on.
These are not new concepts, nor are they good ideas. Please show where they have worked in Africa or Britain. The oligarchy still controls the society and the illusionary democracy keeps people in check. Faces change but power behind them remains static. None of these fraudulent travesties of justice have worked anywhere in Africa save for the elite.
It was bad, but it had a silver lining.
I wholeheartedly disagree
You might as well be thankful your ancestors were slaves in Jamaica because now at least you've been introduced to snapper fish... complete sillyness
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skittlebrow
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 02:22 |
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If you wish to see where the European created infrastructure is working well, come to South Africa. Go to Cape Town, Jo'burg or Durban. Or any major city. You will see a level of development comparable to the West.
No other place in Africa can boast such developed infrastructure. Much of this was established prior to the hand over of power to the majority.
Why it was made is not the issue, now it is being used to benefit the lives of Africans of all backgrounds, Black and White or Asian or Jewish or whomever. We are the rainbow nation.
Pre European political systems were tribal at there most extensive. It is sheer fallacy to suggest that its possible to run a nation when grouping are done soley as Xhosa or Tswana or whatever, as opposed to broad ideological groupings which are inclusive.
You talk of a tribal dictatorship.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 02:43 |
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skittlebrow wrote: If you wish to see where the European created infrastructure is working well, come to South Africa. Go to Cape Town, Jo'burg or Durban. Or any major city. You will see a level of development comparable to the West.
Surrounded by Townships with nothing. Pretty skyscrapers built on the spoils of war don't impress me!
No other place in Africa can boast such developed infrastructure. Much of this was established prior to the hand over of power to the majority.
Why it was made is not the issue, now it is being used to benefit the lives of Africans of all backgrounds, Black and White or Asian or Jewish or whomever. We are the rainbow nation.
Give it a rest. The nation has crime rates off the scale, rape is now cultural, car jacking a hobby, drugs, HIV, alcoholism... you want to talk skyscrapers as the legacy of white colonisation... Talk REALITY first.
Pre European political systems were tribal at there most extensive. Your use of the word "tribal" is derogatory... I don't see it that way. It was a functioning government and system where things worked for more people than now. It is sheer fallacy to suggest that its possible to run a nation when grouping are done soley as Xhosa or Tswana or whatever, as opposed to broad ideological groupings which are inclusive.
You talk of a tribal dictatorship.
So do you. You just don't see it.
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 19:25 |
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The results of a colonial education are never far.
Its quite painful to read really.
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conscious sistah
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 20:42 |
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Don't mind him, he obviously has this engrained colonial mentality. What can you expect from someone like that. We should thank massa for 'civilizing' africa, what nonsense! The empire has no positives as far as im concerened, all it shows to me is the mentality of Europeans who think they have the right to go anywhere and destroy, rape, murder, exploit nations and its people. This is exemplified throughout their history and they continue to do so. No one has the right to come in to another country and impose their way of life, culture, insfrastructure, whatever on another nation. As these Europeans feel that they are gods gift to mankind, they think that everything they do, and they're way of life is superior. from what i have read from your posts, i get the feeling that you dont care about the horrors of empire, all that you care is that south africa is 'civilized' becasue of this european infrastructure, that you describe.
this really aggravates me!!!! knowing what these Europeans have done, and continue to do to africa, and africans worldwide, yet there are some africans that feel we should be grateful for the 'positve' things they have done for us during empire????? this racist ideology that they have developed, that everything about the west is the best is BS. It is retarding us.
Next you'll be saying that there is equality in south africa.
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skittlebrow
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 20:44 |
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DM, my friend if one wants to be controversial, one has only to point out that the crime rates you speak of only soared once the majority took power. Say what you will of De Klerk and co, but the law and order situation in the nation was very acceptable in those days, however abhorrent the political system was.
The break down of law and order has occured precisely due to the tribalist nature of the ANC governance. Read SAF political magazine Noseweek for a great insight.
http://www.noseweek.com.za
I talk exclusively just rule across tribal lines. The fact remains that at this moment a transfer of credible skills has not happened, and yet many jobs which require specilized talents are given over to Blacks without the background to do them, hence thinks are on a downward slide.
Its one of the reasons my folks send me to Giggleswick for A levels, the decline was too severe. I want my people to control aspects of society, when they are ready to do so, as of now they are not. (In a general SAF context, I cant speak of any other nation).
A colonial education....the chances are you spend 0 of your formative years in Africa, so who amongst us has had the colonial education?
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 20:54 |
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skittlebrow wrote:
A colonial education....the chances are you spend 0 of your formative years in Africa, so who amongst us has had the colonial education?
I take it that comment is addressed to me.
And you think being in Africa makes you immune from a colonial education. Let alone in the aparteid era. Or even in a post colonial society. I could of spent my formative years in Kampala, makes no difference.
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 21:11 |
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I have had a broad based education in good schools both in Saf and in the UK, and I feel that has left me a well rounded induvidual in touch equally with his African and Scottish heritage.
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 22:23 |
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skittlebrow wrote: I have had a broad based education in good schools both in Saf and in the UK, and I feel that has left me a well rounded induvidual in touch equally with his African and Scottish heritage.
Thanks for clarifying that. Your half and half heritage explains everything. It explains your justification of European barbarity and quite obvious distain for indigenous African culture and history. Cant upset the white side of the family eh?
By the way UK education and history whether state but especially the private school system is one of the most colonial and historically biased in the world.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 00:34 |
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skittlebrow wrote: DM, my friend if one wants to be controversial, one has only to point out that the crime rates you speak of only soared once the majority took power. Precisely my point though you won't see it. They're following a corrupt and incompatible system of governance that not only is an illusion but doesn't work. Say what you will of De Klerk and co, but the law and order situation in the nation was very acceptable in those days, however abhorrent the political system was. Of course crime was lower under a facist police state, Hitler kept the buses running on time and improved Germany economy and efficieny too btw... similar agurments to yours.
The break down of law and order has occured precisely due to the tribalist nature of the ANC governance. Read SAF political magazine Noseweek for a great insight.
Indeed? And how indemic was rape and crime BEFORE your colonialists came? I venture that it was largely unknown...
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