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conscious sistah
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Posted: Wednesday March 29th, 2006 18:56 |
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Do any of you go, or would any of you consider to go. I'm asking this question as two weeks ago I took part in a focus group conducted by two individulas from the institute of education in london. They were asked by UCL, to find out from students what inhibits students from applying to institutions like UCL, what are perceptions on it, and those of us who had recieved offers do you see yourself studying there.
It was really intresting to see other students views on elitist universities, in which the common view was one of intimidation, isolation, competiveness, and the lack of people from similar backgrounds.
Blacknet Village what are your views or experiences?
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Michelle33
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Posted: Thursday March 30th, 2006 20:30 |
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I experienced 2 different Universities. The first one had a diverse mix of students and was located in a poor-ish area. I was welcomed there with open arms and never experienced any problems.
The second place I went to was in a rich white area. I felt hostility from my main tutors from day 1. I soon switched off from them and I felt the bad vibes from them all through my course. They were so rude and unhelpful. I had a miserable time there, tutors aren't supposed to put you on eggshells like that.  Looking back I would have had more fun at the first place, I had none whatsoever at the second. The trouble is the second place was the only place that actually did my chosen course!
Anyway, I don't know about UCL as I didn't go there.
Now imagine a Howard University in London?
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conscious sistah
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Posted: Thursday March 30th, 2006 21:04 |
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@ Michelle33
A Howard university in London would be Heaven! I think it would actually encourage more black students to get into higher education, if they knew that there was an institution created by Africans for africans in mind, which would be reflected in the courses offered. A Black centred university in London would be great especially if like many of the HBCUs in America was committed to the educational advancement of African students and the community as a whole.
On another note I must say that you've kind of made me nervous about your experience at your second university, as one of my choices (UCL) is a very conservative white middle class university and i would hate to feel miserable during my time there. This is not to say that i am anticipating this, as the tutors and lecturers seemed very friendly and helpful on the open day, therefore i can't generalise all institutions like that, but its just something that i'm weary of.
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Michelle33
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Posted: Thursday March 30th, 2006 21:32 |
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I wish Blacknet existed when I was a student that's all I can say. There is now a support network.
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Thursday March 30th, 2006 22:34 |
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| Try: http://education.guardian.co.uk/racism/story/0,,1677003,00.html
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Wednesday April 5th, 2006 21:38 |
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I applied to MIT back in the 70s and got an interview. The interview lasted 20 minutes and 3 minutes into it I knew I wasn't getting in. This man spent all of the time talking about what kind of kids got in. Sons of doctors and lawyers etc. I went to another engineering school and encountered the same kind of attitude most of the time.
As far as I am concerned the prupose of White controlled educatinal institutions is not primarily to educated but to indoctrinate and control the distribution of knowledge.
On the one hand the palefaces want to promote the idea the intelligence is genetically based. But the schools don't have any effect on intelligence. With the technology we have today why shouldn't people be able to educate themselves without these institutions.
You can buy a used computer today for less than $300 that is more powerful than the IBM 370 mainframe that they had at the engineering school I attended in the 70's.
You can download an entire CD of books from Project Gutenberg here:
Guten_Books
You can download an automated book reading program here:
Auto_Read
If we would stop b!tching and start cooperating with each other the internet makes it possible to alter the structure of this society. The schools mostly just psychologically condition the kids anyway.
umbrarchist
ps - That CD has 600 books on it. My problem with Gutenberg is they usually don't tell you what a book is about or how good it is. We need quality filtering to stop wasting people's time.
Guten_Umbra
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skittlebrow
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Posted: Tuesday July 25th, 2006 23:10 |
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I went to King's, and found it to be a great experience. I spend a fair amount of time at UCL with friends, and found the student population to be open minded and wonderful company.
BA Comparative Literature.
conscious sistah wrote:
Do any of you go, or would any of you consider to go. I'm asking this question as two weeks ago I took part in a focus group conducted by two individulas from the institute of education in london. They were asked by UCL, to find out from students what inhibits students from applying to institutions like UCL, what are perceptions on it, and those of us who had recieved offers do you see yourself studying there.
It was really intresting to see other students views on elitist universities, in which the common view was one of intimidation, isolation, competiveness, and the lack of people from similar backgrounds.
Blacknet Village what are your views or experiences?
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FredB
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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 12:34 |
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@Concious Sister..Interesting topic. My view has always been go to the best institutions in the land and I have never shifted from that. Does not mean as a black person it is going to get you that job, but it puts you in a far superior position both in the labour market and socially.
Let me give you a recent example. I went for a full medical check up as part of my private health scheme. The consultant who is a top professsor was going through my paper work and then stopped and said Dr Fred we have plenty in common and then told me we have the same alma mater and both worked taught at the same elite medical school. My wife who was with me told me once he noted that his complete attitude changed and was extremely friendly. Not to say he was not friendly and professional at first because he was, but you could sense the immediate change in atmosphere.
Also happened to me once when I engaged a top law firm and this Jewish senior partner was boasting blatantly about the firm and its rep and the university he went to...
He asked me did I know a particular professor and when I answered we were personal friends and I studied two degrees under him and he was my Phd supervisor my man could not even talk, because he hardly knew him only having spent a short while at the university in question, unlike myself. But after that he was literally eating my sh*t with praise and flattery...not because he wanted to because this was one arrogant white boy, but because I could trump him big time on the very same platform he sought to base his superiority on....
So I simply repeat what my father and house master told me always go for the best and never compromise on it, particularly if you are black. The issue of being intimidated or isolated and all that which you mentioned to me is about preparation. Because if you have the right preparation of being the a high performer you don't give a rass about what white or other students think and Asians from my experience are the most difficult because they think they have reached and when they see a black person in those places it loses them sleep..Most upper middle class whites are far more confident of their positions and are only doing what is natural do them...
One thing you do get in elite universities is the largest collections of wankers in any geographical space on the planet. Many of those who attend are the 'brightest' in their early school career in their localities. Problem is this, when they move to a bigger play ground which is choc a bloc of high performers it affects their confidence and you will find out who the real bad boys and girls are.
So the b**chiness or attempts to undermine are really deep and heavy things go on. I did not experience much but remember receiving two straight A's from some real tough and no nonsense professors and I think the only person to do so and you should have seen the response of particular white male and female students...But they would not come and mess in my face because they know I would yam them whole and alive and all together..
I sat near this German guy whose father was the Directure of the Duetchesbank. A real arrogant and aristocratic type and we did not talk for almost the complete time of our degree. The only time we spoke is at our finals at the end he came over to me quickly and asked me how I answered two questions. Of course I gave him the correct asnwer and enjoyed myself as his face collapsed knowing the b**ch had got it wrong and the satifisfaction as they say in the Mafia he had to come and kiss my ring..Because I have nothing to ask him or any white boy or Asian in that exam..
But if you lack confidence then you will start to appologies for your superior performance and even start to dumb down to keep in with white folks. Me I don't beg friends or white woman so what they think I don't give a raas, because as my father says i can't take them white people where I am going...
Finally, it is not only students who are intimidated in elite universities. I got my break in teaching in my first one, because a colleague asked me to take her lecture while she was out of the country. I came, I saw and conquored. When she returned she was amazed by the positive reception I received at my lecture and seminar and asked me if I wanted to have the job period which surprised me plus I had a full time job already.
She confessed of all the universities she had taught at, she found this elite medical school the most difficult ,because at that time they were pure public school intakes and predominantly white males. Many of them had never been around women or taught by one and because of their rugby and rowing machismo and rowdiness she found them very difficult to control and it was not helped by being an Asian woman academic.
These were massive lectures in massive lecture halls designed like multiplex cinemas so can you imagine it packed with white upper middle class public schools boys and their antics...
I had no problem with them whatsover, but being a particular type of man and black man too boot and having self confidence and being probably more athletic than most of them and definitely a superior sense of humour than that white foolishness I had a ball.
But what white people think or do should never deter you from working or studying in the best institutions in the land for your own benefit and that of your children as well...
FB
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conscious sistah
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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 13:19 |
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@ Fred B, that was some excellent advice, and some good anecdotes. My Dad told me the very same thing, of not being detered from going there, or feeling intimidated. I was in the beginning quite intimidated,when i went for the interview, as I had never been in an environment where i was the minority, in terms of race and class. In addition I felt while sitting there with the other students that were like clones of one another, will i fit in, what would i talk to these people about ect. I finally did, and they seemed nice, but at the same time, in particular the middle class public educated males, were nice but at the same time liked to slyly brag, about A levels, predictions, GCSEs and Oxbridge interviews, which is a standard for them. After the interview with two lecturers, i felt more confident, and that I was as good as the rest, and deserved to be there because i felt i answered all their questions well, and even schooled them in a few areas of african history that they didn't know.
Im now a lot more confident in going, at first i had this mentality that i don't really care if i don't get in, but now i really do, depending if I get the A levels that they want. Competition from what i've heard about the institution is fierce, this will probably motivate me, even more to do well, as i can't stand feeling inferior to others, academically that is.
I think going to the place i want to go to, will benefit me in the future, as I would like to become an academic.
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FredB
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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 14:00 |
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@CS Your father knows what he is talking about. You are correct that most of these institutions and not only education are filled with grey or shall I say white and a few coconut clones..But that is their problem...You bring the flavour and use it to your advantage and that is your competitive edge.
I remember an interview I had for a tenured academic post and a really good one that I wanted. You always get to know who the other candidates are because you spend the day together and will chat and socialise. Only after I gave my presentation, being the last up that I realised the three other white academics gave literally the same presentation, but I brought the flavour and quality...
So don't worry about the clones..clones mean being safe and often lacking real confidence, initiative and daring..Use them to give yourself the competive edge...
Good choice of career and good timing given the changes taking place in the profession and I am sure you will educate them and that is the attitude you must have..
Peace and good luck..
FB
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Melissa
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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 16:37 |
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I worked at UCL, the student and professors are very nice, helpful, friendly etc..
I interviewed some students from various backgrounds who were enjoying thier experience and never had any compliants at all.
However, I did notice that the corporate departments were 'over zealous' in being seen to be PC, then only made sure of 'just' meeting the quotas.
For example, my dept of 30 staff had a conference with an outside research company who stated that with 3% of 'ethnics' in the deparment they had fulfiled their requirement which is to mirror the percentage of ethnics in that area of London in each dept, degree etc.
So from that day on, there were only ever three non-white people working in the department at any one time, even though there were 6 or 7 when i first joined!
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CeeCee
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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 19:23 |
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Conscious sistah,
You would expect for Spelman and Morehouse to be more open minded Universities( and considering that they schools used to be around housing prjects before they started to tear them down),but they are the opposite. Even at Historically Black colleges and universities like those, some of those folks are just as snobby as they come. When you go there , you'll them talk about Black Unity and other kinds of stuff there, they are just political talking, but once you attend school there, all of that prejudice leaks out. People from Morehouse and Spelman has a tendency to look down on student who are from Clark Atlanta University and Morris Brown College because they are considered to be " ghetto" schools.
My brother would tell me about how disgusted he was at Morehouse and Spelman colleges looking dowm on people and back then ,the people who lived in the housing projects( and some of those people went there as well). I used to think it was a joke and I also remembered a horrible 1987 article from the AJC about their ignorance about how My wife isfrom Spelman, My girlfriend is from Clark and my Ho is from Morris brown. If I find the past article, I willlet you see what I'm talking about. Even in 2006, the prejudice has not disappeared. Just look at their website at some of their forums abouthttp://www.clubauc.com about it. It can be appalling! Some people , like me, who used to go to the school because we wanted the so-called Black experience and then you go and there is elitist prejudice, class prejudice nationality prejudice-- what kind of " experience" is that? It's funny, I graduated from a White University. Though I have never been the target of racially animosity( at least with me) there, I 'm quite sure that some of those White people at the school was for me or any other Black person, why? because it's a fact of life. At least if I would have been the target of it, I would be more expected and understood, with our own people doing this to each not! it just doesn't make sense to me.
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Aryek
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Posted: Friday July 28th, 2006 01:19 |
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I'm going to an elitiest university in Canada. But thankfully the school is slowing being overrun by minorities.. Half of the student body is made up of Far East Asians and there are a lot of Blacks, Indians and Arabs so the white supremacist undertone is not as present as you would find in completely white dominanted institutions. For the most part the instructors in the more dominant faculties are not that bad but I have two Asian friends who decided to major in Celtic Studies, (don't ask, they were both really lost when we were in first year), and encountered blatant racism from not just the students but their instructors as well. Anyway, that experience has really opened their eyes and has even turned one of them into the most militant, anti-white person you can find. It's funny as hell too because this girl used to run after red-haired white boys...  ... until she had her epiphany.
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black_bradman
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Posted: Saturday August 5th, 2006 19:48 |
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Surely the 2 best unis in Canada are U of Toronto and MacGill university?
Which 1 are you at?
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babygirl44
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Posted: Friday August 11th, 2006 11:09 |
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| Don't let the fact that there aren't many blacks around or that they might be racism at the best univerisities prevent you from going to them. Aim for the top as Fred B said. Once your in, the younger ones will follow behind you, which is good for us. It makes no sense for all of the top black students to be at uni's such as Middlesex or East London when they can get into Imperial College, Bristol, Cambridge etc. These top uni's are gateways to the corridors of power, many of the top businessmen and chairmen are not in those positions because of what they learnt at uni, hell some of them probably came out with 3rds but they made links with the right people who helped them out.
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FredB
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Posted: Friday August 11th, 2006 16:40 |
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@Cee Cee. I have never ever rated Morehouse and Spellman. First after reading the classic study of Chicago Professor E Franklin Frazier just to take one starting point before I go any futher.
If in the US and given the choice I would go to a white elite university than any of those two and you don't have to read Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man to know why..
A simple criteria I use to judge is this given the length of time those instittutions have existed show me the army of alumni who have left there to make any serious contribution towards black development. A couple of names is simply not goin going to cut it in any so called major institutions...
I compare these institutions to a poor institution by comparison the Universtiy of the West Indies which is not even half a century old. Despite the reactionary and conservative nature of its present administration they have produced high calibre people in every feild, particularly the sciences who have made brilliant contributions to their people and the black world on a continuous basis..
They have won two Nobel prizes. Morehouse has one and that is for Martin Luther King and his political activities and contribution to humanity not because of academic or scienticific brilliance like our people..
So basic performance scales these instutions cannot compare. But more importantly, from its early inception Morehouse etc were coon colleges designed to produce a particular brand of dim witted big ego Negroes.....more concerned with so called Negro prestige than doing the work of the intellectual elite of any institution or society...
It is a contradiction in terms that an elite institution produces people who look down on others the way you described and we know what you are saying is true. Hence if given the choice I would go to a white university like MIT, Harvard, Yale, Columbia and these places which are not negroe institutions..
Compare the ethos of the University of West Indies as stuck up as some may be but it is a people's university and that is the ethos...Well officially anyway..You will not find that condescending view of others in elite white institutions in Britian and would be looked on in a very peculiar manner if you spoke about others in those condescending terms..
They value their liberal traditons. The London School of Economics invented the British Welfare State so no matter how elite its reputation you cannot refer to poor and disadvantaged people in those terms and value your arse..Oxford and Cambridge no diffrerent. That does not mean they do not have the usual isms in various forms, but they would not tolerate such ugly attitudes. The Oxford Union probably invites more radicals from every walk of life to debate with students than most negroe colleges would dare even to contemplate..
I don't know whether the pictures are still up but I remember visiting the LSE back in the day and seeing pictures of Dr Kwame Nkrumah, Dr Namdi Azikwe of Nigeria, Dr Jomo Kenyatta, Dr Sir Arthur Lewis all great black men and many more than I can remember who made a serious impact on the world..not to forget Dr Bernard Coard.
But you can see the fundamental different ethos of the people and the institutions they attended. If you read the social correspondents or leading journalists on social issues in British top quality newspapers most of them are Oxbridge or LSE graduates and they reflect that liberalism in their articles on matters of law and order or poverty etc...
So probably better to be amongst white folks who have no negroe points to gain and maintain a sense of liberal social conscience at the bare minimum.
FB.
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CeeCee
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Posted: Sunday August 13th, 2006 00:26 |
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FredB,
You got that right! It just bugs me when I used to go there and look at these so-called " brothers" and in my case, " sisters" talk about Black pride, their words can convince you that you should be at their schools and that you will come out feeling like a renewed cosmopolitan Black person. Besides going their because of family tradition( Far as the AUC in general.) , I was also attracted to their words and I so much wanted to get a part of the Black experience. Instead I came out disappointed and trying to get the divisions that is so prevalent on that campus. I so much wanted the true black experience----black unity, Black understanding and an education about myself and it wasn't what I was I was totally exposed to while attending there. Going to Spelman some of those gilrs acted like they knew everything and if you couldn't get it right, they'l lpop their tongues in disgust, but a great deal of them also cheated theri way to the top( That is a sure promise! Bill Cosby's daughter once mentioned that and it's no lie. Just be famous or have some clout and you can get by). For a semester being there, I was getting disgusted and wanted to go to another college because of it. I guess god didn't make my second semseter at Spelman affordable because he knew that I wasn't happy there. Ironically, the very university that I thought I wasn't going to like( I hate big colleges/universitties), I loved to pieces.
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Aryek
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Posted: Sunday August 13th, 2006 01:36 |
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black_bradman wrote: Surely the 2 best unis in Canada are U of Toronto and MacGill university?
Which 1 are you at?
Now why the heck would I divulge that information to you? Why you wanna know, huh?
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Posted: Sunday August 13th, 2006 13:37 |
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Well when I was applying to university some years ago, I visited UCL's law department, as was told straight out that if i know I am not going to get 3 'A's then don't apply, despite the entry requirments being AAB. Needless to say I didn't apply, not because I had a problem with my grades, but because I knew that I would never be happy at a institution that treats ANYBODY like that....
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Posted: Monday August 14th, 2006 23:52 |
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| My uni was so elitist I was the only student, I also doubled as the vice-chancelor and the chaplin every third wednesday.
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