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azania
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Posted: Monday April 18th, 2005 19:27 |
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My son will be 12 in June. He is in the first year of secondary school. At primary school he got top marks in all exams sat in the SAT exams. He was one of 2 kids in his year to get top marks.
Now at secondary school his marks have dipped. His attitude has changed and is becoming more surly by the day. He has now started back talking his teachers and has had a couple of detentions as a result. Many times I have read of black boys doing well at school in their primary years but failing in their secondary education. I will not allow my son to go down that well trodden path. Never.
But why is this? Why do black kids, especially boys fail so regularly?
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Soulstarr
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Posted: Monday April 18th, 2005 21:53 |
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I've seen it first hand. Some Teachers just arnt as tough as they used to be nowadays. While I was at a sixth form i noticed that some teachers found it easier ti just send a child out of the class. I know sometimes they are causing a disruption to other kids, in which case its understandable but a lot of teachers do it when theyre just pissed off cos it makes life easier for them. A the end of the day, lots of kids are mouthey when they get to secondary school but I find that teachers arn't as persistant as they used to be. But thats just gong on what I've witnessed and been told by other mothers who have boys at school.
All I can say is that all you can do is be as determind and you seem to be. Keep a strong hold on him cos its so so easy for kids to go down the wrong route without you even realising. Maybe extra tuition at home might help?
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Auset
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Posted: Tuesday April 19th, 2005 10:46 |
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Having studied educational psychology and from experience, i would tell u from a young person to a mother that tehir is a system that has already labellled your son before he even entered the school, if he continues to get in trouble he will be excluded and that in itseklf will start a catelog of problems.
What i will recommend to u is get very involved in the school system i mean join the PTA attend every parents evening without fail, u should know all ur sons teachers what assignments he has etc. The school should be very familiar with u , they will be less likely to mess with u and ur son because they will know u are clued up. You also have to taech ur son how to handle himself in school not to back chat etc, and if he has any issues with teachers they should bring it to you, i wonder what his friends are like because he is coming to an age where the peer approval becomes more powerful then the parents, if u can see him started to hang with undesirables u need to curtail it. Does ur son have positive male role models that he can look up to and be supported by, if not there are mentoring programmes. If u r son is having diffficulty with the work see what it is if u can't help him get someone he can and speak to the teacher.
The reason black boys fail is long and complicated, we can't change the system all we can do is counteract the effects and to do our part. Keeping fighting because it will be worth it
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Tuesday May 24th, 2005 01:38 |
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People keep talking about education but hardly anyone talks about trying to find out what the children are interested in learning. Even their own children. GO TO SCHOOL MEMORIZE THE IDIOTIC GARBAGE THE TEACHER TELLS YOU TO MEMORIZE.
I got interested in science and engineering as a result of reading science fiction in grammar school. I don't know what your kid is interested in but you could try this.
Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki
http://www.twbookmark.com/books/34/0446677450/chapter_excerpt10368.html
Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics by Stan Gibilisco
http://www.contractor-books.com/MG/Teach_Yself_Elec.htm
Dancing Wu Li Masters by Gary Zukav
http://quanta-gaia.org/reviews/books/wuLiMasters.html
The Art of Electronics by Horowitz & Hill
http://www.artofelectronics.com/
================ Science Fiction =========================
The Space Merchants By Frederick Pohl
http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/000255.html
The Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov*
http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/asimov/
Foundation "
Foundation & Empire "
Second Foundation "
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein*
http://www.wegrokit.com/stranger_in_a_strange_land.htm
Citizen of the Galaxy "
http://www.hat.net/pop/books.science_fictions/citizen_of_the_galaxy/
A Fall of Moon Dust by Arthur C. Clarke*
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=232
Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
http://www.thesustainablevillage.com/awrbooks/html/BooksinHTML/endersgame.html
Ender's Shadow "
Mote In God's Eye by Larry Niven
http://www.sfreviews.com/docs/Larry%20Niven%20and%20Jerry%20Pournelle_1974_The%20Mote%20in%20God's%20Eye.htm
Nor Crystal Tears by Alan Dean Foster
http://sites.inka.de/mips/reviews/NorCrystalTears.html
Deathworld Trilogy by Harry Harrison
http://sites.inka.de/mips/reviews/Deathworld.html
Outcasts of Heaven Belt by Joan D. Vinge
http://www.ffbooks.co.uk/n3/n18062.htm
Cold As Ice by Charles Sheffield
http://www.clarkesworldbooks.com/book_0812511638.html
Brainwave by Poul Anderson
http://www.rosettabooks.com/pages/title_96.html
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Masai05
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Posted: Tuesday May 24th, 2005 15:54 |
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Azania:
Auset hit the nail on the head:
"What i will recommend to u is get very involved in the school system i mean join the PTA attend every parents evening without fail, u should know all ur sons teachers what assignments he has etc. The school should be very familiar with u , they will be less likely to mess with u and ur son because they will know u are clued up. You also have to taech ur son how to handle himself in school not to back chat etc, and if he has any issues with teachers they should bring it to you, i wonder what his friends are like because he is coming to an age where the peer approval becomes more powerful then the parents, if u can see him started to hang with undesirables u need to curtail it. Does ur son have positive male role models that he can look up to and be supported by, if not there are mentoring programmes. If u r son is having diffficulty with the work see what it is if u can't help him get someone he can and speak to the teacher.
The reason black boys fail is long and complicated, we can't change the system all we can do is counteract the effects and to do our part. Keeping fighting because it will be worth it"
Umbrarchist wrote:
"People keep talking about education but hardly anyone talks about trying to find out what the children are interested in learning. Even their own children. GO TO SCHOOL MEMORIZE THE IDIOTIC GARBAGE THE TEACHER TELLS YOU TO MEMORIZE.
I got interested in science and engineering as a result of reading science fiction in grammar school. I don't know what your kid is interested in but you could try this. "
These two views are on point. In my classes(I've taught 6th, 7th, 8th, 12th and 3rd grade)kids are always dealing with Identity issues. Peer pressure really sets in the 6th grade. At this juncture it is no longer cool to be smart. In fact most of the gifted and talented kids drop out the program and settle for mediocrity which is really a shame.
This is the time for a parental intervention. This year is finished but the summer is the time to get him back on track. I would get some advice about his habits from his teachers and suggestions on how to get him back on track for next school year. Get reading lists, outlines of math he'll be learning etc. During the summer you need to sit and talk with him as often as possible about things of substance, peer pressure and success. Get to know his peers and if possible their parents. You have to get a feel of who his social group is and how to counter the bad influences. As Auset mentioned, this list/suggestions can go on forever!
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arakunrin
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Posted: Monday August 1st, 2005 22:43 |
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| Here is why I think that black boys tend to fall lower in school- and I'm speaking as a young teen- is that nothing they learn has anything to do with them- it's all Western civ. or American History as it pertains to the West- music is always classical music-where do you find any classical composers that look of African descent? It's in the system you all that is the reason. I've had to give myself my own history and even my mother refuses to find anything but Western history and sh*t to be of any value. She's into classical music- a right black anglo-saxon if you know what I mean. It's because nothing Continental or Diasporan is ever presented as having the littlest bit of value and you know how to fix that? Don't embrace Western neo-Victorian classicism sh*t as if it were your own because every child intuitively knows that it is not his or her own. Teach them on a household level about their history whether it be Black history in the Americas, UK, Brazil, the Caribbean, or Europe and teach them also on a household level the power and importance of their own history-encourage them to do little informal research projects and learn about their own human-forsaken blood (not valued by the other "races") and stop pushing them so much in the direction of Whitey's values; have them learn on top of French, Latin and English, Yoruba, Akuapem Twi, Igbo, Hausa- any of these will give them the self esteem and the substance to push forward- they must know that their culture and blood is valuable and honorable. I've had to fight my way through my household to make myself feel good about myself by gleaning history and insight online about the African side of humanity and by buying a course on the Yoruba language. I've learned so much about myself and my humanity that I value my future and I value my blood. So stop wondering and give them some good old Africanity. There is so much more to this argument of giving ALL children of African descent this but it goes on an intuitive, spiritual and emotional level so much that I cannot even articulate it.
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Tuesday August 2nd, 2005 06:27 |
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What did you say about classical music?
http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Beethoven.htm
Last edited on Tuesday August 2nd, 2005 06:28 by umbrarchist
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flirt-e
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Posted: Wednesday August 17th, 2005 21:55 |
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i know what u mean bcoz i had to do a project last year about education and instutional racism and what i have learnt is that black boys whether or not they are intelligent will not strive to their full potential at high school because they have already been labelled by teachers as trouble makers and are more likely to be kicked out of lessons and to be excluded from school than anyone else. my brother was an excellent student in primary school however since he has joined high school he has been in trouble and his school report woz APPALLING!
u need to let ur son know that the system doesnt work to his advantage and that if he wants to get anywhere in life then hes goin to have to work EXTRA HARD instead of falling into the trap of back-chatting and getting a reputation in which will be very hard to shake off.
i dont know if im makin sense but i hope ive helped!!
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HatHaruhotep
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Posted: Wednesday August 17th, 2005 23:25 |
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Im Hotep, Black Diamonds and Pearls,
One issue that we must stress as Afrikan people is the concept of home teaching. I do not mean removing your child from the schools. I mean introducing your child to subjects that the Jigaboo Factories (Public Schools) will neglect. Buying books and reading them with your child, reading biology books, botany books, astronomy books. Using a map to show them how the Bible says that Moses' wife was Black (See Numbers 12:1), teaching them about the religion of blessed Kemet (or Egypt, in Greek). Show them all about our heroes from all over the world. Our children must have a proper sense of identity or they will be lost in this wilderness.
Also, monitor what the children listen to and watch at home. You cannot control what they do at other people's houses, but you don't have to tolerate booty bouncing music that calls us out of our Names under your roof. Im Hotep.
NeferneferKhnum Sa Ptah
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darkstargyal
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Posted: Wednesday August 24th, 2005 13:24 |
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black boys seem 2 fail
cos they get labelled as bad, moment they use a rude word on the teacher (in my school neway). so they stop tryin, simply based on the fact if they work hard no one wil pay any positive attention 2 them anyway, or the fact evry1 thinks theyl neva amount 2 anything more than a burger flipper
that and the influence from their friends can b pretty strong. if they work hard then theyl get stick frm ther mates.
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Miss Nellia
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Posted: Thursday August 25th, 2005 11:29 |
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I work in a secondary school and I must say that it breaks my heart so see what goes on, YES you can blame teachers for instantly lumping these boys in a box labelled ‘Trouble makers’ and forgetting them. But then who can explain this image that black boys like to portray as threatening and unapproachable.
The fact is that I have learnt that these boys are usually far from scary, well not to me anyway. When you speak to them on a one to one basis, where they don’t have their peers as an audience they are the most intelligent and frustrated young men you would ever want to meet, with talents pouring through every vein. I admire them and have a sense of respect coupled with a deep sadness for the bleak and dark future many of them see for themselves. They do not feel a need to conform, they make mince meat of these tiny white female teachers that are usually very intimidated by them and these boys thrive on this intimidation. To back chat a teacher gets big approval from their peers, these so called ‘trouble makers’ then become respected and revered amount their social groups. Back chatting is something I DO NOT TOLERATE in my classes BY ANYONE…… I deal with it accordingly; I don’t give detentions for it I just speak to them on a one to one basis after class. I ask them if they back chat their mothers at home, and 99% will say no, I then ask them ‘at what point in class did I disrespect you, I ask for the same respect I show you’. I don’t call home at this stage I deal with it myself. I don’t fill out ‘yellow forms’ on them, (for those that don’t know yellow forms are filled in by teacher on trouble makers and sent to form teachers or senior teachers for further action’. I take the time that is needed to get through to them without getting them into the type of trouble that follows them THROUGHOUT their school years.
Many teachers’ WILL NOT take this time with them.
As I have said before in another thread there is a huge lack of black male role models in schools for these boys. I strongly believe that should they fill these schools with this type of influence we will see a change. (If any teenagers here feel that this is one possible solution, please let me know, because I want to push this at my school especially, I would value your opinion).
In defence of teachers, our hands are so tied by legal red tape in what we can and cannot do with students, that it gives these boys free range to ‘take the p*** in the classroom. (By the way we have the same problems with white girls as well, so let it not like this is an exclusively black problem only).
I return to work next week and I have my eyes on a few black students that I feel have all the potential in the world, the establishment has given up on them but I haven’t, they will take their GCSE’s at the end of this school year I don’t intend for them to leave school with nothing, I just wish that I had their parent’s support. All of my lunch time and after school classes for a lot of these boys, prove difficult, it’s hard to keep 100% attendance and my efforts to get parents involved is difficult.
Black boys are crying out for our help and we are interrupting these cries at bad behaviour.
I know this sounds abit radical but I wish we had an exclusive black school for our students, like the Jews have, where we would teach them our history, as well as the core subjects. Instead of French and Spanish teach them our own languages and music etc. Instead of skiing trips to Switzerland, field trips to Africa. This would be my dream. But I can hear the criticism now!!!! It would be condemned for being a racist school alienating the rest of society.
Last edited on Thursday August 25th, 2005 11:34 by Miss Nellia
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efenjee
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Posted: Thursday August 25th, 2005 12:55 |
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Miss Nellia wrote: I know this sounds abit radical but I wish we had an exclusive black school for our students, like the Jews have, where we would teach them our history, as well as the core subjects. Instead of French and Spanish teach them our own languages and music etc. Instead of skiing trips to Switzerland, field trips to Africa. This would be my dream. But I can hear the criticism now!!!! It would be condemned for being a racist school alienating the rest of society.
If there were enough black teachers as interested in this idea as you are, you could open your own independent schools and do things the way you dream of doing them. Do you belong to any Black Teacher's Associations? What is required to start your own school?
I believe it could be beneficial to a lot of kids to go to a school like the one of your dreams, sadly I'm not sure if enough black parents who have the money to send their kids to fee-paying schools would be happy to send them to a 'black school'. I know it's results that matter, but from speaking to some parents whose children go to private school, it seems that some black parents want their children to do all the same things the white kids are doing. They want their kids to be able to blend in as well as possible in this white society and the problem with them going to the type of school you describe is, they would end up coming from a different place to the toffs kids who mostly all share a common culture which they will have in common with those in authority throughout their education (inc. higher education, especially in certain establishments) and then when they get to the workplace they have common points of reference with their employers which help them to progress in a way that those without that shared culture will not easily be able to do.
For example, what challenges/problems in higher education (and later on in the workplace) could a child who went to a black school with a pro-black curriculum face? Would their experience of education affect how they are received in the current majority white society? Would it matter? I'd be interested what others think.
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Loyalty
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Posted: Thursday August 25th, 2005 13:00 |
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That usually results from them being unaware of racism. They grow up being taught to obey and respect teachers, but have never been taught about racism. At the secondary level, black males are entering their adolescent years in which they are physically maturing into grown men, which subjects them to the harsh reality of racism. However, just like all minors, they are not mentally nor emotionally mature enough to deal with these unprovoked attacks so they act out. Although he's dealing with adversity in the same manner as all minors, his physical maturation and their denial of racist attitudes leads instructors to classify his behavior and deviant.
The best way to deal with it is to have an honest talk with him. The innocence of childhood is gone. It's now time to prepare him for the realities of being black and male in a society that hates him. Talk to him about racism (even black on black racism). Ideally it's best to be taught this by men. However, women can teach their sons some realities which will lead him in the right direction.
Whenever he back talks his teachers, don't be so quick to defend the teachers. Let him know that his feelings of anger and frustration are not without merit, but the way he deals with it must be moderated.
Explain to him the benefits of education on his future success so he can better understand institutional racism and why he (black males) is being systematically discouraged from obtaining an education. Don't try to drown him with too much info in one discussion. Stimulate his interest so he will be receptive to every subsequent lesson. A consistant and progressive course of action.
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Proud&B
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Posted: Thursday August 25th, 2005 14:47 |
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Black boys do not start secondary education in year 7 with a negative attitude towards learning or a negative image towards their teachers.
I believe that our boys begin to mimick negative behaviour from older students, e.g. trainers, instead of shoes, hoodies instead of school jumpers or blazers. This is where it begins lack of respect for rules. Because of peer pressure many of our children take on this bad boy image which does not reflect the homes that they come from. This you can see on parents evenings etc.
Teachers love parential involvement, because you are the only tool that can help to keep our children on the right path. If a teacher knows that they have your support then everything else will fall into place.
What I have found as a teacher is that many of our children do not even respect black teachers. They trully believe that they can talk to us with no respect and challenge our authority.
HMMMM - Well, the boys that I teach are just totally shocked when I respond to them in the manner that is totally unexpected.
I beleive that we as teachers need to adapt to these changing attitudes of our young people. We need to befriend them, understand them and liaise with them on a level where they see us as part of the mechanism that will help them to attain the grades that they need to function in this society. Bottom line BE REAL.
They need to see we are not their enemy and that we want the best for them. Do not walk pass them in the corridor, but engage with them. Listen to what they have to say. Find out what their strengths and weaknesses are and work with them.
Our children do find alot of the work boring/rubbish. It is at this stage that I always say, "anything one does not understand eventually becomes boring. When you don't understand how to do things it becomes rubbish".
Bottom line our black boys need to be empowered. They need to recognise that they don't need to portray themselves to be what they are not and its fine just being themselves. However, when it come to interacting with adults/teachers or people in authority, there is a certain code of condcut that they must follow and that is manners and respect. Nothing else will do.
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Miss Nellia
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Posted: Thursday August 25th, 2005 16:29 |
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@ EfEnJee
My first concern is the stigma that society would put on such a school, it would become know as the “black school�, and so would begin that viscous turn of events, negative press, none to zero support from many in the black community, as you said some black parents that send their kids to private school embrace that infrastructure and turn their noses up at what a black school means to them.
Luckily my main concern is not for the narrow minded, but to help some of the THOUSANDS of black boys in this country whose parents can’t afford private school. My concern is for the empowerment of the FUTURE of our youngsters. What will my 200 or so, fifteen year old black students have going for them in 10 years time when they are twenty five, at the moment they have nothing, no future. Now I can’t cater for all but I can try and help as many as I can.
As I know what type of society we live in, a black school should never illuminate the core subjects as I mentioned earlier, these are Maths, English , Science and IT, these would have to be compulsory, but then the rest of the school’s focus would have to be on Black history, Culture, Enterprise, Music, Sports and most of all a visit to Africa, which I think could be made compulsory at some stage in their years at school. Far too many black people live out their lives having NEVER been to Africa, I would like to see that changed.
It’s funny that the Jewish schools in my area especially, have a waiting list of years, its rep is second to none. They teach their own languages, history, culture, religion etc and no one bats an eyelid. Infact I know of black parents that try to get their students into these schools.
The main focus would not be to churn out socially challenged young people, that could not fit into normal society, but it is to churn out scores of black youngsters that know who and what they are, have pride in themselves and their heritage, with GCSE’S grades higher than a E, now that cannot be a bad thing.
I don’t know if there is such a thing as a Black Teachers Association, as I am a NQT – Newly Qualified Teacher, but if there is I would join like ‘yesterday’. I will look into this.
The money that the government is spending on these schemes, to tackle the problem of failing black boys in particular, they could fund such a school. It would require VERY strong black teachers, other black professionals etc, to get something like this going because the uproar and backlash would be immense. The DFES would continually monitor such a school so closely that it would become a hindrance. They would be waiting for end of year results with bated breath, hoping for failure to say ‘I told you black boys were dumb’.
However, once the main focus is never far from our minds it could work. Remember all I would like to see is BLACK PEOPLE HELPING THEIR OWN BLACK TEENAGERS, CHILDREN & STUDENTS BREAK THE VICIOUS CIRCLE THAT THESE POOR KIDS ARE IN NOW.
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efenjee
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Posted: Thursday August 25th, 2005 16:35 |
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Miss Nellia, what do you know about that 7th Day Adventist school John Loughborough in Tottenham? I hear it's a very good school and I don't know if it's entirely black kids but it's got to be somewhere near 90% if not more?
Just found this article about it:
Britain: Adventists Say 'No' to Non-Inclusive Education
June 26, 2001 London, United Kingdom .... [John Surridge/ANN]
Seventh-day Adventist educators and leaders have reacted to comments made last week by Lee Jasper, race relations advisor to the mayor of London, who said that the John Loughborough Seventh-day Adventist School in Tottenham should be seen as a model for "black-only" education.
"The John Loughborough School is not, and never has been an 'all black' school," said Keith Davidson, education director for the Adventist Church in England, in a statement issued June 25. He said that current enrollment reflects more than 20 different national and ethnic backgrounds, ranging from African and Caribbean to Indian, Chinese, Caucasian, and Filipino.
The John Loughborough School was founded in 1980 and received a considerable boost in 1998 when it was awarded state funding. It has a track record for raising the achievement levels of children from minority backgrounds or those who are socially and economically deprived. School officials believe its success is largely due to the spiritual ethos and values underpinning its work.
The John Loughborough School has a current enrollment of 305 and a staff of 23. In the United Kingdom and Ireland the Adventist Church operates two secondary schools and nine primary schools. Around the world more than 1 million students are educated in Adventist institutions.
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Miss Nellia
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Posted: Sunday August 28th, 2005 16:57 |
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@ EfEnJee
Thanks for the info, will look into this asap, would be good to speak to someone there and arrange a visit, just to see what percentage black males & females are there for myself and what the exam result success rate is. More interested in the educational infrastructure than the religious aspect.
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