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HatHaruhotep
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Posted: Monday July 3rd, 2006 17:31 |
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Im Hotep
I recently read this book by Robert Morkot and I am wondering if anyone else has. This book is mostly Eurocentric and racist lies. Its title is The Black Pharaohs and the book is about the 25th Dynasty only, implying that those were the only Black Pharaohs that ever ruled in Kemet.
Morkot blatantly states that Nefertiti, Queen Tiye, and King Tut were not Black and clearly identifies the Egyptians/Kemites themselves as a non-Afrikan race. Yet this piece of crap book is always posted on so-called Afrocentric websites and is pushed off on us as legitimate scholarship. Don't waste your money on this garbage.
Sa Kmt
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Apedemak
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Posted: Monday July 3rd, 2006 18:27 |
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Yup... Wrote a letter complaining to UKTV History about it. They had a program titled --500 years of black pharoes- going into how egypt was once ruled by their neighbours who couldn't keep up the empire or some BS. I wrote to them saying that us African people laugh at their attempts to pervert history asking why they never have any historical programs about Ancient Africa even though they're happy to show programs about how the oldest bones are found on the continent.
They changed the title to -Black Pharoes- not sure if it was my letter that did it but I think the bit about how we laugh at them must have rattled them a bit.
Obvious truth is the mixing of Egypt marked its downfall so they reverse it.
I need to read up on Ancient Egypt from an African perspective, can you reccomend a good book? Looking for one with pictures and all that so I can put names to faces where I can.
Any reccomendations?
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HatHaruhotep
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Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 00:39 |
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Rebel-Lion wrote: Yup... Wrote a letter complaining to UKTV History about it. They had a program titled --500 years of black pharoes- going into how egypt was once ruled by their neighbours who couldn't keep up the empire or some BS. I wrote to them saying that us African people laugh at their attempts to pervert history asking why they never have any historical programs about Ancient Africa even though they're happy to show programs about how the oldest bones are found on the continent.
They changed the title to -Black Pharoes- not sure if it was my letter that did it but I think the bit about how we laugh at them must have rattled them a bit.
Obvious truth is the mixing of Egypt marked its downfall so they reverse it.
I need to read up on Ancient Egypt from an African perspective, can you reccomend a good book? Looking for one with pictures and all that so I can put names to faces where I can.
Any reccomendations?
It depends on what about Ancient Egypt you want to know. The Husia by Karenga is a good collection of some of the wisdom literature.
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Aryek
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Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 03:23 |
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HatHaruhotep wrote: Im Hotep
I recently read this book by Robert Morkot and I am wondering if anyone else has. This book is mostly Eurocentric and racist lies. Its title is The Black Pharaohs and the book is about the 25th Dynasty only, implying that those were the only Black Pharaohs that ever ruled in Kemet.
Morkot blatantly states that Nefertiti, Queen Tiye, and King Tut were not Black and clearly identifies the Egyptians/Kemites themselves as a non-Afrikan race. Yet this piece of crap book is always posted on so-called Afrocentric websites and is pushed off on us as legitimate scholarship. Don't waste your money on this garbage.
Sa Kmt
You know one thing I hate is how Europeans try to state that Egyptians did not identify themselves as Africans because they drew Nubians darker than themselves. Off course they drew Nubians darker than themselves. If Nubians were like present day southern Sudanese blue-blacks, then it doesn't take a genuis to see that a black person who is not blue-black is going to draw himself lighter than a Nubian. Does it mean that they are actually not from the same race? No. There are a lot of diverse skin colours amongst Africans. The ancient Egyptians could have possibly been the same skin colour as the Bushmen (San) but I don't see anyone denying the Africanness of the San.
And one thing they also fail to mention is that these same Egyptians also drew themselves as distinct from Arabs and Southern Europeans. They gave these people a whitish skin colour while drawing themselves as red and sometimes dark brown. Now there are plenty of dark brown and red skinned Africans but we have yet to see one fully white or Arab person with red or dark brown skin, so really where is their argument?
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Apedemak
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Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 14:54 |
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^ They'll do anything to deny us our history and themselves at the same time. If Egypt was Arab they'd rebuild it but they wouldn't dare touch it. I'd love to see it rebuilt one day.
It depends on what about Ancient Egypt you want to know. The Husia by Karenga is a good collection of some of the wisdom literature.
General history and stories about the pharoes with the chart of the rulers and what not... and pictures of the them as well. I've been looking but most books are written from a BF perspective and I don't appreciate their stance on anything to do with Africa. Noticed the other day that I've never really read up on Ancient Egypt just watched TV programs, its something I just haven't thought about and I need to get to grips with it.
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FredB
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Posted: Wednesday July 5th, 2006 14:11 |
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@HH said "Morkot blatantly states that Nefertiti, Queen Tiye, and King Tut were not Black and clearly identifies the Egyptians/Kemites themselves as a non-Afrikan race. Yet this piece of crap book is always posted on so-called Afrocentric websites and is pushed off on us as legitimate scholarship. Don't waste your money on this garbage.
Yep that is how the system works. Get some white boy to produce crap, hype them and get them on the air or media and try to make them an authority while making them money, and they don't care who they are just to make sure one of our better qualified people don't get heard. They commission these books very often simply to counter or to make sure another more serious black book and author does not get heard.
Why give them the money and deprive yourself of proper information...We are old enough as a people and been around long enough to see this sh*t in our sleep...Of course Kemit was not a black civilisation which is why the word means Land of the Blacks..They have never seen the images inside those temples highlighting the different races and the dominance of the African right in front of their faces...
FB
Last edited on Wednesday July 5th, 2006 14:12 by FredB
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Apedemak
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Posted: Wednesday July 5th, 2006 15:12 |
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Land of the Blacks..
Ahhh... apparently thats a term for the soil that the nile produces, nothing to do with black people.
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Posted: Wednesday July 5th, 2006 18:24 |
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@RL actually correct if you take Chancellor William's explanation. But JH Clarke who lived much longer and wrote much more work on the issue says Kemit also refer our colour. Who is the ancient Kemetic diety I think it is Khunun who made human kind from soil or clay on the potter's wheel. That is where it is from, and just a useless bit of info the god in the Jewish Torah also comes from Kunun who made man from clay. But our clay as the soil was black as are we....
Peace...
FB
Last edited on Wednesday July 5th, 2006 19:03 by FredB
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Dillinger
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Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 02:19 |
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FredB it is nice to see you back on these boards I would like to take time out to say maximum respect (in earth man tearms) to your acemedic movement in respect of the potential development of a positive African (and caribbean) stairing group. It is apparent to most (long term board users) that you are driven by an accademic awareness in respect of our dissenfranchised community.
I only hope that you (and your supporters) will attract the financial suppoort needed as so many of our positive African progress groups have found it (in the past) so difficult to attract. It is quite obvious to much of our community that as the years have gone by it has become much more difficult to highlight the connection between the caribbean and the UK black (Afrcan) community in respect to our true herritage. I only hope that the Managment and Moderators of this board will give you support that you need in order to generate the interest needed to support your perspective.
Last edited on Thursday July 6th, 2006 02:25 by Dillinger
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Apedemak
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Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 11:19 |
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^ Huh? Can someone please fill me in? I'd like to know more if possible.
That is where it is from, and just a useless bit of info the god in the Jewish Torah also comes from Kunun who made man from clay.....
Again, please share!
I've seen the heiroglyph with them making man on a pottery wheel which shows the use of mechanics as well as the more intresting creation of man but I'm not too well versed in Ancient Egypt.
Whats the story of Kunun and how does it relate to the Jewish?
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 13:46 |
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HatHaruhotep wrote: Im Hotep
I recently read this book by Robert Morkot and I am wondering if anyone else has. This book is mostly Eurocentric and racist lies. Its title is The Black Pharaohs and the book is about the 25th Dynasty only, implying that those were the only Black Pharaohs that ever ruled in Kemet.
Morkot blatantly states that Nefertiti, Queen Tiye, and King Tut were not Black and clearly identifies the Egyptians/Kemites themselves as a non-Afrikan race. Yet this piece of crap book is always posted on so-called Afrocentric websites and is pushed off on us as legitimate scholarship. Don't waste your money on this garbage.
Sa Kmt
The first place I saw this book was in a Black Muslim book store. I never even picked up the book because I don't waste my time on something denoting the obvious. The "Black Pharoahs"? All the Pharaohs were Black Africans except for the short periods of being occupied by foreign Indo-Europeans and Asiatics (Hyksos, Greeks, Libyans, Persians, etc.).
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Apedemak
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Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 15:13 |
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All the Pharaohs were Black Africans except for the short periods of being occupied by foreign Indo-Europeans and Asiatics (Hyksos, Greeks, Libyans, Persians, etc.).
Can you reccomend any good books on the general history of Egypt? Preferably with pictures?
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Jay Jay
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Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 17:40 |
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FredB wrote: @RL actually correct if you take Chancellor William's explanation. But JH Clarke who lived much longer and wrote much more work on the issue says Kemit also refer our colour. Who is the ancient Kemetic diety I think it is Khunun who made human kind from soil or clay on the potter's wheel. That is where it is from, and just a useless bit of info the god in the Jewish Torah also comes from Kunun who made man from clay. But our clay as the soil was black as are we....
Peace...
FB
I was aware of Khnum but I never put 2+2 together with the clay and black soil, very good spot.
Rebel-Lion wrote:
I've seen the heiroglyph with them making man on a pottery wheel which shows the use of mechanics as well as the more intresting creation of man but I'm not too well versed in Ancient Egypt.
Whats the story of Kunun and how does it relate to the Jewish?
You mean whats the story of Khnum and how does the Jewish version of being made from dust/clay relate to the original story? Or how Khnum relieves throats and lets everyone breathe to give life and also gives them a 'ka'(soul), sounds a bit like the copied Jewish god breathing life into Adam making him a living soul, pirated poop.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/khnum.htm
http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptgods6.html
http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/khunum.html
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/khnum.html
Last edited on Thursday July 6th, 2006 17:43 by Jay Jay
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Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 18:10 |
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@Dillinger. Man everytime you talk comes like the heavens open up..So its usually important. Much love for the comments bro. But what can you do as my old mother says. We either lay down or fight and some of us don't make good floor rugs.
Yep you know the financial problem behind every single initiative including Blacknet nuff talk but where's the bread to make things move and develop. But we are determined and have some really bright and capable brothers and sisters and growing all the time.
We are also assisted big time by our people in the US who are really really exicted by intellectual developments in the UK and Europe. Just like Blacknet. It has opened our American cousins to European and UK and even Caribbean thought in a way most would never ever be exposed to. So whenever you create a need or desire from our people in the US, many of whom may complain about their situation but they still control bigger budgets than us and are prepared to spend money supporting the type of stuff we do. They have more big professors than we do and you only need a couple of them firmly behind you and the resources that brings and you are in business.
Last year I was a part of team of seven British African academics who presented at a major US African-American conference and we blew them away. That was the intention to show that we may be a small country or community but we pack serious weight in affairs intellectual and knoweldge based. Some are used to the odd British black academic speaking at big gigs, but a whole team of them and radical like hell. So it was business and good business or I would not have gone and miss time back home in the Caribbean....
We have been fortunate that we have had so much interests from all the big boys and girls in the intellecual black world in the US that we have had to turn down almost the majority. But what we in this country have to realise is our experience and how we think and do things is unique. Similar to others, but unique, and that is the value we add to our product which our people abroad especially in the US and Canada are interested in.
We live in perpetual hope my brother.
Peace.
FB
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FredB
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Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 18:18 |
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JJ and RL greetings. Will be back later to develop the points god willing. But a good starting point for info is the works of Dr Yosef Ben Jochananon. This is his area of expertise. His films and books are excellent on this.
Later brothers.
Peace
FB
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Apedemak
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Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 19:21 |
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Tired of reading things from a European perspective, was exactly what i was looking for.
Still intrested in what you do, I'm up for some inspiration.
Thanks
RL
Last edited on Thursday July 6th, 2006 19:22 by Apedemak
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 20:30 |
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FredB wrote: JJ and RL greetings. Will be back later to develop the points god willing. But a good starting point for info is the works of Dr Yosef Ben Jochananon. This is his area of expertise. His films and books are excellent on this.
You know what's funny, I was just about to PM you to ask what you thought about Dr. Ben's work. I have cited him a few times on Blacknet before, but not too many folks seem to know about his work. I agree that his books are pretty good, although not the best written. I have not seen any of his films. Can you recommend any?
Last edited on Thursday July 6th, 2006 20:31 by Shemsi en Tehuti
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Soul Blader
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Posted: Friday July 7th, 2006 00:08 |
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| White people are really desperate. They want us to believe the Egyptians were fat pasty hairy anglos. In the distant future the Chinese and Japanese will be counted as white caucasoids. Cant they just be content with the ancient Greek and Roman empires and leave Africa alone? Last edited on Friday July 7th, 2006 00:13 by Soul Blader
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Posted: Friday July 7th, 2006 02:54 |
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@RL JJ has answered the question in part. Jahova in the Torah replaces Khunun the great potter creating man from clay and breathing life into him/her...Massive sections of the Torah, like the bible are clear rip offs of ancient Kemtic beliefs and practices. The notion of the virgin birth comes from the Ausarian legend and can be seen all around the world in different forms. For example the Kabballa which Jews claim to have evolved is a straight rip off of the Masonic practices of our ancestors including their use of the tree of life, and what is now called the star of David.
An essential part of the Kabballa is a 'mystery system' type practice of decoding the true and deeper meaning in sacred and imporatant texts. It is a bit like morse code, particular letters have a numerical significance. After reading an important passage it is possible to tranform it into a mathematical type equation, which once solved then provides another key in order to interpret some other higher truths.
As you know knowledge is power and in most advanced societies sacred and really powerful knowledge is protected from ordinary people who simply cannot handle it and will end up doing all types of madness. When people talk about the illuminati and that type of stuff which is choc a bloc with elite Jews and ex or practicisng Kabbalists all these ancient practices and knowledge systems are involved. My dad is a Caribbean mason and his massive silver ring which they wear has a star of David inside a circle which has other small Kemetic type symbols on it.
@Shemsi..Africa the Mother of Civilisation is an excellent DVD and so is his other great work, Black Man of the Nile. Most of his important works are on DVD. These things are all over the place in the US. I actually prefer his DVD's than actually reading his work. Jochannon is an excellent teacher and educator and researcher, but I have some serious issues with his style and particularly how he presents his work. I have no doubt that hurt his career and his ability to reach more black people.
He is a brilliant presenter and orator and one of the reasons he was so popular when he was alive. But I think he was far too popullist, not only for my taste, but on sound ethical principles. I got myself in a middle of potential beef with a brother who is a historian and well regarded in the radical and African-centred community over Jochannon.
I spoke at Malcolm X day a hundred years ago or so. Probably, 1987 or so. The theme of that year was Malcolm's view of black women and I was one of the key speakers. Now I don't talk about theory in those kind of gatherings but the attitude of leaders and brothers in the movement who are respected and their attitudes towards sisters. Now being a senior security officer I knew a whole heap of sh*t on senior figures. Of course I would never mention names but can give a general outline of the key areas of concern.
A couple or weeks or so before the meeting my girlfriend had returned from the US and bought me a whole of books and stuff. One of them was Jochannon's new book on the role of African women in ancient Kemetic philosophy and practice and the title was 'Heaven Is Between a Black Woman's Legs', blah blah blah...
When I saw the title I thought this was some joke or something or some prank, until I opened the book and you can tell Dr Ben's awful style in a second and I knew this was not a joke but the brother was serious. I did not know Dr Ben personally, because if I did he would have received a phone call about that title and I would have expressed my concerns about him coming here to push that book.
Anyhow, during the meeting someone asked me about the title of the book and Dr Ben's oncoming tour and I made my view plane as I would if he was there without disrespecting an elder brother and important scholar. How he would take it only god knows, but having watched him a whole heap of times he would probably have tried to turn the issue on to me and that is where it would have kicked off. He would have lost the argument and badly on my soil amongst my people. This is not America and we are not Americans and I would have remined him the way I have to cut down a couple of their Hollywood stars who think we are star struck kids.
So I was very confident of my grounds and when I said I found the title unacceptable and disrepectful and it illustrated in my mind exactly what I was talking about about the double standards illustrated by senior brothers and leaders in the movement where our women are concerned. I also found it disrespectful as a black man, because i don't want anybody to think they can make them kind of remarks about any woman or sister or neice unless he wants to feel my foot in his arse. Simple as...You could not come in our meeting and make that comment and not think brothers will intellectually jump your arse.
I had the argument and the audience....
Now this brother, the historian, who I got on very well with up until this point, objected to my remarks. I need to say that some brothers in the movement and in life despite their personae actually lack self confidence and take a great deal of their self esteem vicariously from others. This brother was a Jochannon fanatic and responded as if I had insulted his mother.
After giving his intro of how important Jochanon was and how suprised a brother of my repute would cast such damaging aspersions blah blah blah..He then claimed the title was metaphorical. I told him there was nothing metaphorical about a title saying Heaven is Between a Black Woman's Legs' and it sounded more like a porno movie or advert for all black sex agency.
Moreover, there is no way a popullist like Jochanon would not know exactly how that title would grab attention. Study his tapes and films and see how sexually suggestive his is in my view quite uncessarily and in public, but his audience love it and probably those who do not do not have the confidence to stand up to some of his ability and stature.
So my man knows what he was doing and my historian buddies arguments were not cutting the ice. Other people started to take him on and sisters in particular and he was taking a lashing. When he could take no more he stormed out of the meeting and started to diss and misrepresenting me to some people who were coming to the meeting. A couple of static security officers overheard him and approached him and he kinda lost his voice or forgot what he was talking about....
Two weeks later Jochanon came to London with John Clarke and Ivan Van Sertima and spoke at County Hall, only to be met with groups of black women from various organisations, including some good sistren feminist friends of mine, who came quite rightly to kick up a stink over the title of his book. Jochannon simply laughed the matter off and as i expected and turned the issue onto the people asking the question eg making joke on black feminists needing men etc. As expected the first thing most peole read in their Guardian and other newspapers is about this controversial and sexist African-American Historian Jochannon, completely sidelining Clarke and Van Sertima who are superior scholars, but inferior entertainers.
Sometimes black people are just fools to themselves and too arrogant for their own good. This is why people I use to dispair at political leaders who rather than put their feet down to big superstar vistors and tell them how our rules go simply pander to them for popularity and photo opportunities and bring down unessary heat, pressure and divert our resources and energy for fools..Rather than having these sisters organise to attend and participate in the conference his stupid remarks had the reverse effects.
OK they were not as many as the women who attended the conference in a positve spirit so to speak, but that is three dozen or so women who could and should have been on board not protesting because of a fool.
Peace...
FB
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Friday July 7th, 2006 12:50 |
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@ FredB
My aunt says the same thing as you about Dr. Ben's presentation/oratory skills. She used to go to his (and others) lectures in New York where she lives.
I too thought the book, "Heaven is Between a Black Woman's Legs" was a joke at first. I never got time to actually read it. Besides the provocative title and Dr. Ben's notoriously dissuading writing style, did you ever stomach reading the book to discern the validity of the material? I particularly have had trouble with tracking some of the sources in his other work. There were a few things I had dismissed from him until I actually came across what he had written in other research.
I think I will order some of his DVDs; however, I do like to have a written record of such things if possible, so I will probably get both the DVD and book of his material I don't already have.
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Apedemak
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Posted: Friday July 7th, 2006 16:44 |
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You mean whats the story of Khnum and how does the Jewish version of being made from dust/clay relate to the original story? Or how Khnum relieves throats and lets everyone breathe to give life and also gives them a 'ka'(soul), sounds a bit like the copied Jewish god breathing life into Adam making him a living soul, pirated poop.
Safe bro. Links made an intresting read.
An essential part of the Kabballa is a 'mystery system' type practice of decoding the true and deeper meaning in sacred and imporatant texts.
I'm well versed in the Kabbalah and most things mystic. Only thing is that I don't have the money to get the books I'd like and obviously life in London deems that I have to work to keep the baliffs off my back .lol. Waiting for Mr Fine1952 to drop some info on an 11th Sefirot, hes supposed to be making a topic about it... guessing its inbetween so called Keter and Tiferet.
'Heaven Is Between a Black Woman's Legs'
Sex as a creative force? A Divine act? The 'primeval waters' as the fluids emitted in sex that then give birth to man and woman as child?
Not that I've read the book but was that the line he was taking?.... Provoke to invoke prehaps, depending on what it was about.
Will be adding his DVDs and literature to my libary.
Has anyone continued his work if hes passed on?
---Eddit----
Might have trouble finding his work, if anyone can post up a link to his DVDs it'd be much appreciated.
Last edited on Friday July 7th, 2006 17:07 by Apedemak
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FredB
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Posted: Friday July 7th, 2006 17:39 |
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@RL I wish he was talking about sex and its divine role or function, because that is definitely not the tone he uses in his talks...Equally the subtitle of the book was more than good enough without resorting to cheap tactics. It's about balancing one thing against the other.
Yep it may well have caught the eye, but there is far more than that to consider. You cannot go and lecture as Jochannon does about the high value of African wom |
