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Incognito
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Posted: Tuesday September 12th, 2006 09:27 |
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Any men got visiting rights to their children, how much do you actually get involved with raising them or is it just day trips to the park. If all you are doing is visiting, how much difference does it make how often you visit? Have we reached the stage where we are just happy to know who our dads are?
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Bacoo
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Posted: Thursday September 14th, 2006 14:47 |
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Incognito wrote: Any men got visiting rights to their children, how much do you actually get involved with raising them or is it just day trips to the park. If all you are doing is visiting, how much difference does it make how often you visit? Have we reached the stage where we are just happy to know who our dads are?
Here in the states that becoming more and more the case with about 70% of Black children born to a single parent home.
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Incognito
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Posted: Thursday September 14th, 2006 16:20 |
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Bacoo - and by choice as well. The only time the father gets a mention is if the children come out wotliss. If single parents are the norm I think it's full time the women became the visiting parent or the parent on the side cos if stats are anything to go by for the most part too many are doing a lousy job.
But really for the babyfathers/divorced who haven't got custody, what role do you play..especially if you have other profesional/soial commitments.
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bubz
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Posted: Thursday September 14th, 2006 16:47 |
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honestly, how many men do u think are gonna admit that they only see their kids when they can find the time? a lot of them are just happy to be out of the relationship with the mother, so not being around the kids every day is a small price to pay for the freedom they have gained from the ex. its not an ideal situation but neither is living in a warzone (ie: the family home) for 'the sake of the kids'.
many absent parents lives do not revolve around the children they dont live with so they visit when they can - the rest of the time they are getting on with their life, making money, having fun with the lads or whatever. its not always practical to parent properly when u dont live with your children. if u work regular hours u may not have time on week days to go and see how your kids are doing, so a phonecall may have to suffice in many cases.
even when u do live with them it can be difficult to spend quality time with them, alongside other comittments u may have, like work or elderly parents, education or training. i know women whose children are in bed by the time they get home from work - and their partner is the person putting the children to bed, going thru the homework with them, etc etc. these women may well look forward to taking the kids to the park because on a day-to-day level they dont even see that much of their child.
in some two parent households the role is reversed and the father is the one who rarely sees the children awake on weekdays and only gets weekends to really spend time with the children. thats modern family life, so it isnt even the case that its only absent parents who arent that involved in the day-to-day raising of their kids.
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TheDogon
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Posted: Thursday September 14th, 2006 16:48 |
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I really can't comment personally. I have no children. But I know many brothas who's masculinity is tied up in producing children.
Not in caring for them.
But this is a good thread to talk about that.
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Incognito
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Posted: Thursday September 14th, 2006 17:34 |
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bubz - appreciated but this is a specific question for a specific scenario as opposed to a general discussion about raising children. I've always believed statistics are somehow contrived to fit the agenda of the statistician so really wanted an idea of some of the realities experienced in here. But as you hinted, it appears there are no half dads in da house. Noticed the thread about questioning the amount of shoes women have before it's called materialistic has gone quiet too. Girl I think I'm beginning to see how this all works Last edited on Thursday September 14th, 2006 17:36 by Incognito
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DARKSIDER
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Posted: Thursday September 14th, 2006 17:40 |
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i believe that i am a half dad to my son im not particularly happy with it that way but in all fairness of MY situation its the best i can do. Im not with my sons mother and she now has another child with someone else and to cut a long story short she isnt the easiest person to get along with infact being around her i find is EXTREMELY negative for my son as she likes to argue and shout allot she even shouts at my son not in anger she is just naturally aggressive.
He stays with me every weekend that im not working 3 weekends out of 4 if not all weekends cos sometimes i do work saturdays and basically from friday to saturday night its only about me and him. I do as much with him as i can be it reading going to the park playing football computer whatever as long as its ME AND HIM and he knows me and him can relate thats all that matters to me cos when he gets older like in secondary school thats when young BOYS only go to who they are SAFE WITH i know this for a fact. I know some may not agree fully with my method but like i said its the best i can do to what i know is right and im a full time student at uni and live alone (none of that matters i just dont want you to think im out galavanting as i am actually doing something of importance when im not with him)
i dunno
i try and whilst his mum really annoys me i dont hold her responsible for any of the things that go wrong in regards to my son cos we are both trying our best when all is said and done there is no way i can say she aint trying and there is no way she can say i aint trying so we are both doing something right.
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DARKSIDER
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Posted: Thursday September 14th, 2006 17:47 |
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i would also like to add that at NO STAGE EVER would i NOT drop everything im doing to have him full time infact i have actually tried to do this when his mother was raising him in a way that i dont agree with so i put my money where my mouth is and made the plays to do it but his mum went against it.
at first i thought it was cos she was scared of loosing him but i actually now know there is more to it
WOMEN LOVE ROUTINE they love THEIR routine
i once said to her let me take him to school and pick him up EVERDAY for a week as i will take the week of work just so she could stop rabbiting on about how i dont know what its like to have him all the time
you would of thought she would have jumped at the chance she said yes but then shegged me (longed me off and basically wasnt there when i came to pick him up to take him to school)
so there you have it some women can be a good mans krytonyte
true stories
forgive me for ranting but this subject is a bit touchy for me
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Friday September 15th, 2006 20:00 |
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DARKSIDER wrote: i would also like to add that at NO STAGE EVER would i NOT drop everything im doing to have him full time infact i have actually tried to do this when his mother was raising him in a way that i dont agree with so i put my money where my mouth is and made the plays to do it but his mum went against it.
at first i thought it was cos she was scared of loosing him but i actually now know there is more to it
WOMEN LOVE ROUTINE they love THEIR routine
i once said to her let me take him to school and pick him up EVERDAY for a week as i will take the week of work just so she could stop rabbiting on about how i dont know what its like to have him all the time
you would of thought she would have jumped at the chance she said yes but then shegged me (longed me off and basically wasnt there when i came to pick him up to take him to school)
so there you have it some women can be a good mans krytonyte
true stories
forgive me for ranting but this subject is a bit touchy for me
Darkside...don't you know the way to the law offices? If you believed that your ex is not the best person to raise your son, then its not up to her to decide wheither to give you your son or not. Obviously after letting her know of your intentions, you should have gone to the solicitors and then take it from there.
I am sorry, this is not a personal dig at you , but i am so sick and tired of hearing men after men say that the woman doesn't let me do this or that..ofcourse she isn't going to let go off that easly.
Besides, the law is changing now in regards parental rights for men.....i just wish more men fought for their children instead of giving up just because the silly cow says NO.....we all know that women and men, use children to get back at their partners....and most women, even when they are not coping, would rather fight you tooth and nail rather than admit that they are BAD parents. Thats why i think fathers need to grow a bit more balls and fight these women because at the end your child wouldn't care about the excuses.
I'm a big fan of Fathers For Justice.....
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday September 15th, 2006 20:12 |
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Mezmorised
You must think people got money to waste fighting what is in 95% of cases a shut case already.
Unless the mother is on crack/ has serious issues or recently lost all 4 limbs you on a prayer.
Also most men have no wish to have social workers and got knows what else poking around in your family life or to have white men and strangers dictate when and how and under what circumstances they can see their children. Until there is a fundemenatal shift in the law I know I wouldnt do it.
Better to rely on your own resources...
Last edited on Friday September 15th, 2006 20:13 by Bredder Tukoma
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FredB
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Posted: Friday September 15th, 2006 20:33 |
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@Brother Tekuma/Mez. Do you know how many times I hear black women say that. And my response is because most black women do not have a general experience of the legal system and process period in any area of law.
Most lawyers who are honest with you will tell you straight up avoid law at all costs, whtether it is at a Employment Tribunal never mind in a family court. My ex is a family law barriser and she does not take male cases why because she is not in the business of losing that is why.
Nevermind the money it costs which most brothers cannot afford or are wiser not to spend knowing that any so call gain is usually transparent. One of my bredrins had his ex just met a new man and take the child half around the country. What is a court going to do about that?. His fatherhood was basically reduced on that day without his knowledge or consent...
By the way i even know mothers who were on coke or taking acid and all types of sh*t and their children's fathers were straight and boring by comparison. Guess who has control of the children.
I know a few men who have won but it is very rare and in cases where they have abandoned their children and it is clear they don't giver a rass. But unless it is crystal clear and most cases never are the judge and not unreasonably so given their assumptions which are not abnromal even though they are so out of touch with what is going on today...
FB
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Posted: Friday September 15th, 2006 21:41 |
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Bredder Tukoma wrote: Mezmorised
You must think people got money to waste fighting what is in 95% of cases a shut case already.
If you think its wasting your resources, then there isn't anything i can say to make you think otherwise.
FredB: Actually, the law has shifted immensly in the past few years...perhaps its black men who out of touch with the law and how they can actually fight it to protect their biological instinction.
This says more about the character AND strenght of black men....i would fight to my last penny for MY child....regardless of what i THINK has happened to other people.
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Friday September 15th, 2006 21:43 |
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Bredder Tukoma wrote: Mezmorised
You must think people got money to waste fighting what is in 95% of cases a shut case already.
If you think its wasting your resources, then there isn't anything i can say to make you think otherwise.
FredB: Actually, the law has shifted immensly in the past few years...perhaps its black men who out of touch with the law and how they can actually fight it to protect their biological instinction.
This says more about the character AND strenght of black men....i would fight to my last penny for MY child....regardless of what i THINK has happened to other people.
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FredB
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Posted: Friday September 15th, 2006 23:43 |
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@Mez, there can be million changes in any law it doesn't mean it changes the fundamental bias which structures the system or potential outcomes. One does not follow from the other. And I can give you examples in the criminal justice system all day long. A minute percentage of men may have improved chances of better treatment in court but not the majority the game will remain the same.
I can guarentee you my ex's firm will not be changing their policies to take on more male clients and they are experts in family law. Law is about making money and serious money and she would not think twice in taking black men's money if she thought they could get the results.
The law is organised around basic ruling assumptions and that rarely ever changes and in many cases quite rightly so. For example the Daily Mail and others have been campaigning both covertly and overtly to have the rape laws changed. I know as long as I have a hole in my arse that will never ever or should ever happen.
No matter how many disgusting abuses of the raple laws which they can document and stack up, it will never ever be enough to put the bias against women in the favour of men and there is no way you can reconcile two biases in that or any other form of legislation.
Men generally rape women not the other way around and even if a million women are proven liars no judge in good conscience can or will ever take reverse that bias and the empirical evidence which we all know too well. Even if we don't know for real we still have to work on the assumption that most women are telling the truth, unless we catch them out in some real and serious blantant lies. Hence men will go down if the evidence is really unclear one way or another because our bias must be with women. If Kobe Bryant did not have money to buy big time expertise and real hard ball players he would have gone down for a rape he did not commit. Simple as....
I beg to differ sis. You may well take the view that a man who does not persue his rights in courts is weak in character. But he may also be far more prudent and wiser than you in terms of the likely outcomes and the other costs involved. There is something called a pyrhic victory which means to win something only to find it was basically worthless.
Me I am a very practical man about most things....I also teach about institutions and their workings and their biases etc. So you know how I would act...Emotions and feelings is one thing my head and money is another....
FB
Last edited on Friday September 15th, 2006 23:46 by FredB
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Saturday September 16th, 2006 02:31 |
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Emotions and feelings is one thing my head and money is another....
Indeed Fred. Thats why I wont even bother answer her petty accusations as she obviously has no experience of how a black male is viewed within the justice system let alone the trouble white men have in securing custody of their children. So they can spout their utopian values.
You know how many brothers win that so called case only to find that if the mother isnt playing ball they cant do jack sh*t about it. Because the same law will not enforce the courts decison and police have better things to do than to enforce your domestic rights.
This aint no cheap shot either but too many black women have their head wrap up with Babylon law like its some saviour and some kind of steady fall back that we can all lean back on and get justice. Police and the law courts and the manipulation of white power are some women best and only recourse. let alone if they start ball the "he is violent angle" and hone the radar of white men/women looking for that stereotypical violent thug which resides within every black man by default? As if people dont know what courthouse in this country is about.
Thats why I say if I found myself in that unfortunate position its far better to rely on your own resources than the whim of some court. Then we will talk about who has character and who is spineless when some realities and stark choices are laid out rago..with no greedy family lawyer to mitigate. From what Ive heard from friend wrapped up in thees disputes (not to imply your ex does the same ) most of these family lawyers whip up so much fervour and bad blood between the two parties so the case will drag on and they can charge more fees... they are in the business of making money.
These people and I say BLACK WOMEN are too wrap up in the great whitey system to solve what are personal and fundemental issues. Me!! / put my faith in courthouse/ might as well take out your cash and stuff it down the nearest drain/ or better still put it down for your child.
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Incognito
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Posted: Saturday September 16th, 2006 06:35 |
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DARKSIDER - an admiral and open post. I hear you on the mother raising boys in ways you do not agree with flex. Did she grow with her own father? I ask because it is becoming apparent that some of these women do not actually know what role a father plays. They have defined this role themselves from a woman trying to be a man perspective. Indeed focus so much on being a man they fail miserably at being female.....and the sad reality is, if that's how they were raised having a father for their own children isn't going to change them.
I guess similar parallels can be drawn with fathers who never grow with their own fathers but as a backup we are male and can relate to the rearing from a male perspective.
Sounds like you have one of those 'anything to spite you babymothers' ...even if it means using your son.....and to think your son is going to be her permanent reminder of you. But it's good that you both try.
BT - For me what a father needs to do for his children cannot be done on a half dad model....especially in these times. If you hear some of the puke which come out of some womens mouths its very cear they haven't got a clue what it means to be a black man in this society. These are the type who marry the system not the man. Babylons daughters....marriage is an insurance policy proving they see black men through the same eyes as the racist law.
Men need to have the intention even if the system is against them. I know three men with custody, the sad thing is a fragmented family is fragmented regardless of who has the children.
Considering there's probably going to be some element of scorn, how many women would give 'their ' children to the babyfather?
Last edited on Saturday September 16th, 2006 13:00 by Incognito
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FredB
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Posted: Saturday September 16th, 2006 23:33 |
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@BT sometimes we have to forgive our sisters because they don't have a clue about a million and one things which affect how men view the world. Furthermore, when you explain to them it still does not register and some of the responses you will get will be offensive.
Let me tell you a joke I am close with a Professor of Law (Criminal) an eminent white man who lost about £30,000 in a civil suit where he defended himself regarding some property dispute. This is a low court in theory not requiring lawyers and such and he got stuffed. To this day my man cannot talk about the experience without getting vex and he is a really calm character.
Why because anybody who knows about barristers and the games they play to win will know they are nasty. All honest lawyers will tell you justice has nothing to do with the law, law is about law and legislation and how to play it not justice. I have no doubt my ex is no different and she will tell you she doesn't make the law or shape the game or how it is played.
It's like people say they can't do that it is against the law. Well try using the law and you will find out what people can do and get away with and what they can't. I lost £67,000 in an employment tribunal case which was a dead cert legally, when I suddenly realised a top Jewish law firm were actually working in cahoots with the other side and were trying to manipulate me to accept a settlement which they first pissed on when the offer was first made a year or so ealier. By that time I had spent more than the £15, 000 final estimate for the cae four times over and they had the f**king cheek to want me to accept £50,000.
I then had to spend £5,000 to another legal company to tell me what I already knew that the old lawyer had clearly breached professional practices and had basically skanked me and they would want £10,000 to put it right. Told them to f**k off and swore I would never go to law again.
A rasta bredrin of mine a builder spent £10,000 to gain access to his child who lived basically around the corner from him and the mother use to tell the boy when he see the father he should run. This is a rasta sister who all of us respected as a concious woman until we heard some of the things she was going on with and community in a state of shock.
She lie until she could not lie any more but got cramped in court when she claim my man never supported the child or had any interest which was a lie. He won the day the woman just move area and did not tell him anything.
My ex(another one) had a friend who I really liked as I did not like most of them who I thought was a really together sister. But after a while certain things just did not add up, the way she constantly moved homes, to the degree that she was an expert in mortgages and moving homes. She was hardly there a year and would pick up and move. I was worried about her children and she had quite a few, until I found out accidentally that her ex husband had won custody of his children and she simply was not going to have it. Worse still she use to take acid and ecstasy and sh*t like that and when I heard I had a serious word with her as a mother, but wasting your time brother.
So that man wasted his money and time and my girl simply was f**king her children up because quite frankly my girl loved to rave and move with the type of people no serious mother would allow never mind around her kids.
But to this day I wonder what the hell came out in that court room for the husband to have won custody of his children. I was never told, but it must have been heavy. A father can be carrying out his responsibilities for years dutifully and suddenly get a new woman and all sh*t breaks out surrounding his kids or worse these women fall in love and into their fantasy sh*t of the new man re-writing all their wrongs and want to breed for him and will suddenly cut of the existing father like a dead branch and make sure he does not have access to his children because it complicates the picture. Seen to much of this sh*t and not talking about worthless men who reflect the women who chose to breed for them.
So you can win what you want does not mean any court will enforce the decison. Once you are forced to go to law and many are, you are in a weak and bad position. Informal resolution is the best course of action in most instances of law.
We have to learn that the system with live and most of its institutions fragment our interests as a people and man and women and provides benefits for one at the expense of the other. Whether it is the education system, the economy and employment, housing and social policy and definitiely the workings of the law and its impact.
Hence we cannot talk about racial strategies or some common interests, because you cannot benefit from a system and then claim to be its victims in the same way as those who are constantly at the brunt of the system. The strategies which black men have to develop will be fundamentally different from those relied upon by women. They can run to police and legal system when most men cannot.
Peace.
FB
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Sunday September 17th, 2006 01:10 |
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Fred
Everyday tings.. you learn fast about the criminal justice system in this country if as a young adolescent with no prior dealings with the police/ you get picked up in the middle of the day and charged with robbery/ which you had no knowldge or remote association with/ have an appeal/ and end up still having to pay the consequences of the stitch up.
An unfortunate lesson/ but fortunate in the long term/ as the case may be. But you learn fast that justice and the courts are not the same thing at all.
We have to learn that the system with live and most of its institutions fragment our interests as a people and man and women and provides benefits for one at the expense of the other. Whether it is the education system, the economy and employment, housing and social policy and definitiely the workings of the law and its impact.
God knows.
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Posted: Sunday September 17th, 2006 11:23 |
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FredB - I've always acknowledged it's not the law, it's the manipulation of law...and that's with minimum if any brushes with the law and without being a lawyer......but RHATID!!...here's me thinking I need a rasta woman!!.....no need to say the system is weighed heavily into the favour of the woman when it comes to custody so can you imagine how more difficult when the woman starts telling her lies and starts denying.
In front of a judge, any accusation that comes my way which I have to defend myself against I can...generally I have a reason for anything I have said and anything I have done.....even if they prove unfounded. A woman once told me going to court it would be for the accuser to prove anything she is being accused of....she isn't admitting anything...but in her case I suspected to admit anything would be to admit the only reason behind everything she does....laziness. But then I do see this as me more than a man woman thing as many a brotha I know is not going to admit anything which sells them short...when faced with the law you soon realise honesty is not always the best policy.
BT - from being picked up and accused of burglary to being taken down the station and being stripped searched...yep..anal and all....so many innocent brothers trying to get on with their lives have been at the receiving end of babylon and their so called justice. Why would you now turn to them for help.
Last edited on Sunday September 17th, 2006 12:39 by Incognito
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Sunday September 17th, 2006 19:03 |
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Incognito wrote:
BT - from being picked up and accused of burglary to being taken down the station and being stripped searched...yep..anal and all....so many innocent brothers trying to get on with their lives have been at the receiving end of babylon and their so called justice. Why would you now turn to them for help.
Exactly bro exactly.
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Bacoo
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 15:10 |
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I actually live with my son and am married to his mother. We got married, lived a great life and made it greater by having our son. What a concept.
I am asked all the time by Black folks, "is that yo onlyest kid mainge?" "Come on mainge tell da truff".....
WTF kind if sh8t is that?? To EXPECT that I would have babies in the street with random women.
Last edited on Tuesday September 19th, 2006 16:57 by Bacoo
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Incognito
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 16:03 |
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| Bacoo - sign of the times I'm afraid...funnily enough I keep getting asked if I'm with that same woman...as if it's not expected to last LOL
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Bacoo
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