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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 20:24 |
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Personally my belief comes from inside and I wouldn't want to impose it on anybody, friends, wife or children, I like to believe it comes naturally. Saying that I do wonder how much my Christian upbringing influenced it but then I know myself to know if I didn't believe in God i would still be spiritually aware.
It would seem like the teaching of God serves many a purpose. Would you teach your children about God because your religion or your beliefs dictate it, or as means of keeping them in check, or if you believe your children should be free do you see it as a chain the brain does not need?
Last edited on Wednesday July 26th, 2006 20:44 by Incognito
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 20:52 |
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It is my opinion that if people need religion to act appropriately, then there is something much deeper wrong with the individual that religion will only suppress and not correct.
I will teach my children real history about all religions in regards to Africans and let them make the choice for themselves when they come to age. Imposing a religion on my child I feel is a crime. It inhibits their intellectual growth because unfettering faith for a particular ideology forces one to reject old and new facts. I would only be raising a little sheep who could easily be manipulated simply by saying the right faith-based words.
I will teach them that God exists, and so they should seek God the best they see fit for themselves.
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 21:48 |
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Shemsi - I like your position. For the most part I'm a man of my word so kind of expect others to be but I know if I trusted my life in man talk and their promises, I'd be a dead man a long time agao.
I think an awareness of a higher force should be made known, or at least the concept and hopefully the childs individual consciousness will seek it or be found by it if it is needed.
It's like sweet reggae music, if your heart is that way inclined, if you don't find the music then the music will find you.
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Mamoulian
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Posted: Wednesday July 26th, 2006 23:32 |
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Salaam Alaikum,
I would teach my children about Allah (the invisible and the unknowable) who constitutes the greatest part of all things.
I would do this for three reasons:
1) It would check their egos - this is especially important in the Western world where idolatry is everywhere.
2) It will save them from Hell.
3) Allah ordered me to do it.
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Incognito
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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 00:13 |
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Mamoulian - the last thing I know I definitely would not want is to institutionalise their minds by sending them to Church or something but I think this is more to my thinking that religion is a good thing but only if everybody is practising the same one.
I think concepts are more important than any individual religion itself. Putting a name to the higher force I believe is the biggest crime man can commit.
Last edited on Thursday July 27th, 2006 00:14 by Incognito
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Peacemaker
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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 10:04 |
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Incognito wrote:
Would you teach your children about God because your religion or your beliefs dictate it, or as means of keeping them in check, or if you believe your children should be free do you see it as a chain the brain does not need?
I wouldn't bother, and I agree with the person who said it is a crime, plus it tends to have the opposite effect in the long run anyway especially if you let the child run around in the wider world, they'll probably secretly hate you if you impose anything them.
All I would say to them is that there's more to life than this, they'll seek for more on their own at a later date.
I'd avoid using the words Allah and God if I were you too, if you don't want you kids looking in the direction those two words are used often.
Also if you're unsure of your own beliefs then teach them nothing. Remember you're a parent first not a spiritual master.
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 12:13 |
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Peacemaker wrote: I'd avoid using the words Allah and God if I were you too, if you don't want you kids looking in the direction those two words are used often.
Also if you're unsure of your own beliefs then teach them nothing. Remember you're a parent first not a spiritual master.
That is actually excellent advise.
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quint2black
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Posted: Saturday July 29th, 2006 11:59 |
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The damage that has been inflicted on us as a people is criminal. In the way of religion one used the Bible and had a gun in the other hand. On the other side one came with the Holy Qur'an and enslaved us at the same time. But then in Africa being left on our own we adhered to African spirituality, Idolatry and a form of worship where we always knew of the Creator but never gave HIM a name. When will we find common unity?
However, an emphatic yes to teaching my children about God by being the best example that I can be and by observing the duties and requirements of that which I say I believe.
In the book of the Muslims, The Holy Quran, Allah says (not verbatum), no one knows what benefit your children will bring you. Abraham's son went the way of disbelief, so too have the children of prophets and ministers of today.
But to not teach your children, in my view, the way you follow, is a denial of what you say you are, for surely you are what you are by choice and in your belief the best that you can be. So how can you not want for your children what you want for yourself?
The bible puts it like this - train the children from young and they will not deviate from that which you have taught them - except that the Creator has another purpose for their existence.
I look forward to your comments and I am open to learning and any correction.
Peace.
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Incognito
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Posted: Saturday July 29th, 2006 13:33 |
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quint2black - the choice thing does have me at odds because I believe my relationship with the higher force is simply part of my consciousness which I do not believe is the same for everybody. As such I find it a futile exercise trying to impart such conssciousness to people who just could not relate...whic could be my children. For example I would n't even waste my time trying to impart such depth to the wife.
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quint2black
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Posted: Saturday July 29th, 2006 15:53 |
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Incognito - yes I agree with you on the consciousness issue, but if I am correct your consciousness of a higher force took some time for you to recognise it. But I think the point being made is would we teach our children about God/Higher Force.
What we each percieve to be a higher force than our own comes about by cognitive reasoning about the environment in which we live and by observation of life. Children have a conscience but their perception of the workings of life and its mechanics surely needs explaining to them.
Children have an inquisitive nature about what they see around them and for me it is my duty to provide an explanation to the things they enquire about and things I need to tell them so that they have firm foundations as to their existence.
Children asking about why mother's stomach has increased in size has a unique way of testing the ability of adults to explain nature. The consciousness of the child is not going to provide such an answer. This is just a miniscule part of creation which children must be taught.
A child's mind is like a blank piece of paper on which the biological-language and understanding of life is writ on entering this world.
It is incumbent on us to share what we know of knowledge to our children.
Why would you not share such understanding with your wife? I find that unless we share our thoughts with our wives we will never, see the other side of the Creator for He is both male and female and in His second creation - the worman - lies the very secret of life, which we ignore at our peril and is the reason why this world is so imbalanced.
Peace.
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Incognito
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Posted: Saturday July 29th, 2006 21:52 |
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quint2black - some admiral points made there. What some people call God others simply call mother nature and the difference between the two concepts I believe is spiritualism or the absence of it. So if I decided to depart such knowledge I would be inclined to do so from a spiritual perspective i.e the existence of a higher force but then I can equally see eye to eye with someone who relates more to mother nature i.e what goes up must come down.
Your point on recognising concsciousness over time is interesting because I've always wondered whether everybody has a spiritual side only some may need stimulating more than others to bring it to the surface - and whether you go about imparting and sharing this knowledge with this in mind. But then a Jehovah Witness came to my door today. I gave them an inch and told them I'm not involved as soon as they tried to take a mile. Now were they trying to impart a level of consciousness on me to stimulate the Jehaovah Witness hidden deep inside me? - my own consciousness would suggest no which is why I wouldn't want to force mine on anyone else.
As for a wife, If me and a woman are to share the same level of consciousness, first and foremost that would have to come naturally.
But back to the children. I agree they must be taught something but as already mentioned, without labels and more from a concepts basis. I ran this by a friend who told me he went full hog and told his son there is a God watching everything you do and will hold you accountable - his son has definitely changed in his awareness and the dad says if that is considered a burden then it's a burden he can accept.
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facetygal
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Posted: Sunday July 30th, 2006 11:53 |
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Incognito wrote: Personally my belief comes from inside and I wouldn't want to impose it on anybody, friends, wife or children, I like to believe it comes naturally. Saying that I do wonder how much my Christian upbringing influenced it but then I know myself to know if I didn't believe in God i would still be spiritually aware.
It would seem like the teaching of God serves many a purpose. Would you teach your children about God because your religion or your beliefs dictate it, or as means of keeping them in check, or if you believe your children should be free do you see it as a chain the brain does not need?
I would teach my children about God and I will take them to church. It will be up to them if they want to continue to go when they are older, and up to them if they wished to get baptised. As a christian of course I am hoping they will follow the same religion but I would NEVER force it upon them. My mother never forced it upon me I did it in my own way in my own time.
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quint2black
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Posted: Tuesday August 1st, 2006 08:58 |
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Incognito
What some people call God others simply call mother nature and the difference between the two concepts I believe is spiritualism or the absence of it.
For me I fail to see the difference between God and Mother nature for the are indivisible in my view. 'God' (Powerful) is an attribute of the Creator and from this and other attributes He 'creates' Mother Nature. Mother nature would not exist without God. For Millennia 'mankind' has constantly taught the separation of universal laws from the source of all creation thereby attributing to himself 'Newton's Law of Gravity' when in fact it is Allah (God's) law that Newton discovered. Credit should be given to the Creator first and foremost.
You refer to spiritualism as that ability to differentiate between an indivisible reality. Is spiritualism to you also consciousness?
....wondered whether everybody has a spiritual side only some may need stimulating more than others to bring it to the surface - and whether you go about imparting and sharing this knowledge with this in mind.
The 'spiritual side' you allude to is an innate faculty endowed in 'HUMAN' beings (human; from humus, a dark organic material in soil essential to the fertility of the earth). Not everyone has the ability to perceive the full light spectrum or absorb all the colour frequencies of the Sun. However whilst it is innate it does require stimulating in millions of us in order to utilise the innate power of our spiritual/conscious side.
But then a Jehovah Witness came to my door today. I gave them an inch and told them I'm not involved as soon as they tried to take a mile. Now were they trying to impart a level of consciousness on me to stimulate the Jehaovah Witness hidden deep inside me? - my own consciousness would suggest no ...
The sharing and distribution of the knowledge of faith is a pre-requisite to being a follower of a faith and belief system. I believe that if you were unaware or not conscious of the teachings of being a Jehovah Witness you may have been open to receiving that teaching and may have submitted to it. There is no Jehohav Witness 'hidden deep inside you' but if the principles by which Jehovah Witnesses lived some of which are common principles and are innate in humanity then that part of you would have been stimulated to so act on.
There is no compulsion in religion and whilst some people preach damnation for not accepting someone's way this is the wrong way to get people to take on board the tenets of one's belief system. Being the best example is the best way.
The problem with 'religion' today is that there is too much religion and not enough submission to the principles that undergird those religions. Too much religion and not enough God. So if we remove the names of the religions we will see that the principles that undergird them is what we must teach our children as long as those principles past the test of universal truth and substance.
Peace.
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Justavoice
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Posted: Tuesday August 1st, 2006 18:49 |
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Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way it should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
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Try not to think of it as brain washing... If you were sending your child to Karate class or some martial arts form of teaching, you would not think twice about putting your child into the hands of an instructor who a long with fighting techniques will in some cases teach them also certain other philosophical teachings on life and forces.
You have put your child on a path therefore why is it such a big thing that you send them on a path or way to knowing God. We have instructors and teachers in so many things in life, why do we then believe that when it comes to God, know teacher is needed ? No elder to guide the way ?.
As a Father and a parent i believe also that you should be your childs first spiritual instructor, one whom leads by example. If the child observes is Father paying reverance and honour to God, it will not be a strange thing to the child.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Tuesday August 1st, 2006 19:34 |
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This is dumb
If you're religious yourself you will raise your kids in it. If not then not. I find it not believable that atheists would raise their kids in religion or that religious people would omit such a thing from their kids upbrining. So you're not really discussing the upbringing of kids itself but rather the religion/non religion perspective in general.
Which is kinda... played out surely
Either you believe or you don't. Why would believers talk to non believers about it and vice versa. Ain't nobody changing anybodys mind here 
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday August 2nd, 2006 06:16 |
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quint2black wrote: Incognito
You refer to spiritualism as that ability to differentiate between an indivisible reality. Is spiritualism to you also consciousness?
quint2black - yes, or at least spiritualism is part and parcel of my consciousness but I don't believe religion is part and parcel of God.
The 'spiritual side' you allude to is an innate faculty endowed in 'HUMAN' beings (human; from humus, a dark organic material in soil essential to the fertility of the earth). Not everyone has the ability to perceive the full light spectrum or absorb all the colour frequencies of the Sun. However whilst it is innate it does require stimulating in millions of us in order to utilise the innate power of our spiritual/conscious side.
I think as humans we all have varying degrees (including none) of spirituality, sexuality, humility, common sense you name it. I used to blieve these things can be taught but not so sure now and even if they can be taught, believing is another thing.
The sharing and distribution of the knowledge of faith is a pre-requisite to being a follower of a faith and belief system. I believe that if you were unaware or not conscious of the teachings of being a Jehovah Witness you may have been open to receiving that teaching and may have submitted to it. There is no Jehohav Witness 'hidden deep inside you' but if the principles by which Jehovah Witnesses lived some of which are common principles and are innate in humanity then that part of you would have been stimulated to so act on.
This best illustrates my perspective as in I have no qualms in sharing and distributing through natural discourse but I would not impose. My beliefes are mine and I don't consider myself a bigot.
There is no compulsion in religion and whilst some people preach damnation for not accepting someone's way this is the wrong way to get people to take on board the tenets of one's belief system. Being the best example is the best way. Growing with people who would abort children for money reasons tells me they are not being driven by the same forces as myself. Sharing and distributing with such people usually leads to fallout. Leading by example is the least we can all do but then being the example makes you a target for hypocrites who need to see you fall to justify their own amorality. And far from following, leading by example attracts parasites who do not necessarily believe in what you stand for but benefit from it none the less. This is not to forget those who have the desire but not the discipline, dedication or energy it takes to also be that example.
The problem with 'religion' today is that there is too much religion and not enough submission to the principles that undergird those religions. Too much religion and not enough God. So if we remove the names of the religions we will see that the principles that undergird them is what we must teach our children as long as those principles past the test of universal truth and substance.
The separation of religion from God leaves you with the higer force - ironically this alludes more to paganism. For me religon alludes more to a way of life or codes of morality.
I don't believe I need religion for that which might not be the case for my children who with all the negative influences around may be moe prone to getting caught up in the hype. But then I also believe religion has been a big obstacle for our people....or at least t he way it has been taught which for me, says more about the student than the teacher. If being taught but not believing is one extrem then being taught and having it wash your brain is the other.
Last edited on Wednesday August 2nd, 2006 13:19 by Incognito
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Justavoice
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Posted: Wednesday August 2nd, 2006 17:42 |
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I think that in this day and age we should not leave our children up to the television to grow them, whilst at the same time no television or allowing them to move amongst different people can have an adverse effect. I believe a balance must be struck and I say this even as an adult that same balance as to be reached in an individual even of age.
I think that many have fallen into the trap of being religious at the expense of losing something of themselves.
Jesus spoke of two men, one who was a pharisee praying to himself who said "Lord I thank you, that i am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Jesus said the publican, standing afar off would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote his breast, saying God be merciful to me a sinner.
Jesus said the publican went home more justified seeing he abased himself.
You'll find that most religious people have a loftiness about them, they compare themselves and their doings to the next man, rather than mark their character and behaviour against that of God whose image we are made after. So they concern themselves with trivial things.
I think it is a good thing to grow a child up to have an healthy respect for God, emphasis on religion, well you know that I am going to say they need at some point to go to church, but there are many bad so-called churches, many that teach false things, so you have to be careful where you send your child and how will you know then where to send them if the Spirit doesn't lead you and you in yourself are unsure ?.
In this day and age, children need a counter, they hear so much in the playgrounds these days.
Just the other day I was looking after some young family members, all boys. A conversation was struck up between the four of them, now the ages of these boys ranged from 6 years old to 12 years old. The conversation started by the six year old concerned that of two women who he believed were gay because they were sitting talking together in the park.
Now I called the four of them and asked them "what is gay"... They laughed. I then explained the word gay means happy. And then promptly went about doing my own brand of de-programming their minds. I explained only to a degree, didn't go into it too much that it is not right for two men to kiss one another nor two women, like a man and a woman would.
I told them this act was NARSTIIEE, and that really their is no word for this filth so don't try to give it a word. They looked at me  laughed and said "OK" and ran on to play their football.
In this day and age, where light and darkness are no longer shades of grey or indiscernible, where the wicked are just wicked and wish to train your child over to their ways. I think we ought to put some counter measures in place.
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday August 2nd, 2006 20:55 |
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| Justavoice - religion aside that was an extremely admiral post.
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WEBLY12
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Posted: Thursday November 2nd, 2006 16:41 |
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I WOULD TELL MY CHILD ABOUT MALACHI Z YORK AN TELL HIM TO CHECK ALL OF THE THINGS THE DUDE WAS SAYING AND TRY TO PROVE HIM WRONG AS ALL INFORMATION IS FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES AND THE MAIN POINT IN LIFE IS TO FIND OUT WHAT THE ORIGINAL "CONCEPT" WAS USE YOUR FULL INTELLIGENCE AND DONT JUST LISTENTO PEOPLE AND ASSUME THAT THEY ARE CORRECT
EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED OVER THE YEARS
PEOPLE LIKE TO ASSUME WHAT THEY FOLLOW IS CORERCT WITHOUT EVER QUESTIONING IT WITH INTELLECT OR PROOF FAITH ALONE LEAVES ROOM FOR DOUBT
E.G (JUST A OFF TOPIC EXAMPLE)
PARENT- SANTA CLAUSE BRING GIFT TO YOU IF YOUR GOOD
CHILD- WHERE DOESHE LIVE
PARENT NORTH POLE
CHILD DOES HE LIVE ALONE
PARENT NO HE LIVES WITH MRS CLAUSE
CHILD- WHERE DO THE REINDEER LIVE
PARENT- IN STABLES AN THEY GET LOOKED AFTER BY ELVES
CHILD GROWS UP AND FINDS OUT THAT THE IDEA AS BASED ON A PEPSI/COKE GREEN DUDE AND THAT THEY WHIPPED IT UP TO GET REVENUE AND THAT THE PARENT WAS LYING ALL THE TIME................IS THIS THE CORECT WAY TO RAISE OUR CHILDREN ON FALSE INFO JUST CAUSE SOME NEXT DUDE OR NEXT CONCEPT SAYS THAT WE MUST??
ALL STORIES HAVE AN ORIGINAL COUNTERPART I BELIVE TO FIND GOD YOU NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT THE F WAS GOING ON BACK IN THE DAY
AND IS THERE ARCHIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE ON THE QUEST YOU WILL BECOME SPIRITUAL AS THEY WILL COME AND IN HAND PLUS WISE PLUS SMART PLUS YOU WILL FIND OUT ABOUT YOU OWN CULTURE AS A LOT OF RELIGIONS ALWAYS HAVE A AFRICAN OR A PRE AFRICAN COUNTERPART THATS SIMULAR
HOLLA BACK
sorry bout the caps lock
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