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idontnowhyino
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Posted: Friday June 17th, 2005 20:31 |
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| This topic is about men's right pertaining to an unborn child. If you do not want to have a child by this man or at that time in you life. Does that man have the right to force you to carry his child to term? Men have parental rights, but when do they begin? At birth or conception?
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safetyblitz
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Posted: Friday June 17th, 2005 20:57 |
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In the US, how can everyone not be pro choice on the woman and her body? I know that people will bring the bible into this, BUT if we are a country of free choice and God created us of free will, a woman has a CHOICE to do what she wants with HER body. I have always been on the fence on this issue because I can see the death caused to the unborn fetus, but the woman has to live with the consequences either way from my seemingly ignorant view point.
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Timeline
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Posted: Friday June 17th, 2005 21:10 |
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I am pro-choice.
In this society the mother is made automatically more responsible for the child.  Women are blamed for getting pregnant as if it only takes one to tango 
Anyways, since the man can walk away from the relationship and child with less sanctioning from society than a woman then the woman (who is assigned the bulk of the responsibility for the child she carried) should be able to think long term and make the decision that would be best for her. I've observed too many single mothers still in shock over the ending of their relationship leaving them with child/children to raise on their own. So it makes sense that the woman should be able to have the last say.
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Noir_UK
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Posted: Friday June 17th, 2005 21:48 |
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In my view, the man has no right what so ever to make demands on what a woman does with or to her body. Discussion is one thing, but the right to impose his will NO. The choice MUST be with the woman, after all the consequences are all hers.
Let us not forget that bearing a child as well as terminating a child has possible health consequences to the woman. A man can walk away, but a woman MUST live with the outcome good or bad for her child, her health and her body because these things are her very life.
Noir UK
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Peacemaker
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Posted: Saturday June 18th, 2005 01:21 |
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I'm Pro-Choice, after life.
If the kid grows up to be a prick or doesn't follow in your exact footsteps then you should have the right to terminate its life, at any age.
It would work a treat if it wasn't for sensationlist labels such as murder and honour killings.
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Vezz.
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Posted: Saturday June 18th, 2005 21:01 |
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I'm definately pro-choice.
As far as I'm concerned, no man has the right to demand anything with regards to my body. No-one can force me to either terminate nor carry to term.
I'm all for discussions, but the final choice must be mine.
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Fredblack
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Posted: Saturday June 18th, 2005 22:21 |
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@All I am pro choice for all the above reasons. But also against Welfare benefits of any type whatsoever for child related matters so women can take their resposiblities a bit more seriously. Don't give me high sounding morals and then low loolking behavor knowing other men eg tax payers going to pay for it.
FB
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Noir_UK
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Posted: Saturday June 18th, 2005 22:25 |
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Peacemaker wrote: I'm Pro-Choice, after life.
If the kid grows up to be a prick or doesn't follow in your exact footsteps then you should have the right to terminate its life, at any age.
It would work a treat if it wasn't for sensationlist labels such as murder and honour killings.
I believe this thread questioned a man's right's over an unborn child; hence his right's over the body of the woman carrying said child. So I'm not sure how the way the child grows up fits into the picture.
Noir UK
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Noir_UK
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Posted: Saturday June 18th, 2005 22:37 |
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Fredblack wrote: @All I am pro choice for all the above reasons. But also against Welfare benefits of any type whatsoever for child related matters so women can take their resposiblities a bit more seriously. Don't give me high sounding morals and then low loolking behavor knowing other men eg tax payers going to pay for it.
FB
You seem to be under the impression that women get pregant alone.... or do you not think a man has any responsibility for impregnation of a woman? The very fact that men can and DO walk away from their responsibilities is precisely what makes the quesition a no brainer.
I see many women being left to take care of their children alone, but not a huge number of men. Though the number of men I meet who have several children to several women is more than I can count. Some of them a kind enough to send their child a card on their birthday  , many don't know or care what happened to that child or even if if was ever born.
Noir UK
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Fredblack
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Posted: Saturday June 18th, 2005 23:02 |
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@Noir UK I am under the impression what? No it is call having intelligence and being able to use it. With power comes responsibility. No woman on this planet would give any veto on such decisions to a man and don't blame them actually. Apply your intelligence on that principle before making daft statments.....You have the power because you have the power, because you have the power. What is there to add?
You should also have some judgement which comes with such power me thinks....About women make children alone?..Helllo trees or inanimate objects can't have discussions. But I know women you want it all ways and every ways and hence why men with half a brain should dismiss at least 60 percent of what many of you say....
It is a god given right for a woman to have a veto or final decision on her body. But goes not furhter to anything outside that my friend.
FB
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Noir_UK
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Posted: Saturday June 18th, 2005 23:51 |
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Fredblack wrote: @Noir UK I am under the impression what? No it is call having intelligence and being able to use it. With power comes responsibility. No woman on this planet would give any veto on such decisions to a man and don't blame them actually. Apply your intelligence on that principle before making daft statments.....You have the power because you have the power, because you have the power. What is there to add?
You should also have some judgement which comes with such power me thinks....About women make children alone?..Helllo trees or inanimate objects can't have discussions. But I know women you want it all ways and every ways and hence why men with half a brain should dismiss at least 60 percent of what many of you say....
It is a god given right for a woman to have a veto or final decision on her body. But goes not furhter to anything outside that my friend.
FB
FB, I have no clue what point you're making.. I don't know maybe I touched a nerve or something, but your comments seem to be running all over the shop with very little relation to any thing I've said.
Noir UK
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Fredblack
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Posted: Saturday June 18th, 2005 23:59 |
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@Noir UK please come with something orignal my god touch a nerve. Damn right the boredom nerve. What I am saying is actually crystal clear and consistent and I will break it down in simple form. A woman has the ultimate right to whether she conceives or not whether the man wants it or not or terminate if he wants or not. So he is basically irrlevent because she will not give up that right. Then she has to be consistent. Not difficult is it....So you saying well it took two to make the child means nothiing does it because it is not two people's decision that counts is it?
Once you veto my wishes girlfriend it is your show from there simple as...
Yep defintitely have touced a nerve. The irritation nerve at students who do not grasp the obvious in their face.
FB
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malumu
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 00:05 |
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I am only pro choice in situations such as rape or where the Baby would suffer..But damn the fools who repeat abortions like one I know who had 3..I broke my friendship wth that fool who told me his GF had had 3 abortions...... I dont care about the womens rights outside of the above situations ....THE RIGHT TO KILL JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE WOMEN????T THis is selfish immorality They are killers pure and simple.I read recently about a clinic in Spain doing illegal ( aftfer 5 months()abortions for £4500 .It was full of Brits who had been sent there by collaberating Doctors in the UK...
AND IM NOT OVER RELIGOUS EITHER...
YES MEN SHOULD HAVE RIGHTS!!!! IT IT PURE DISCRIMINATION!!!!!! EXCELLENT TOPIC
Last edited on Sunday June 19th, 2005 00:09 by malumu
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malumu
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 00:18 |
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Fredblack wrote: @Noir UK I am under the impression what? No it is call having intelligence and being able to use it. With power comes responsibility. No woman on this planet would give any veto on such decisions to a man and don't blame them actually. Apply your intelligence on that principle before making daft statments.....You have the power because you have the power, because you have the power. What is there to add? YES THERE ARE MANY POWER FREAKS OUT THERE
You should also have some judgement which comes with such power me thinks....About women make children alone?..Helllo trees or inanimate objects can't have discussions. But I know women you want it all ways and every ways and hence why men with half a brain should dismiss at least 60 percent of what many of you say.... YOU HAVE HIT THE NAIL ON ITS HEAD..MANY WOMEN JUST WANT IT ALL EVEN IF IT INVOLVES MURDER
It is a god given right for a woman to have a veto or final decision on her body. But goes not furhter to anything outside that my friend. AND A FEOTOS IS NOT A WOMANS BODY..She knows the consequences so why does she get herself into that position....
FB
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Noir_UK
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 00:51 |
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Fredblack wrote: @Noir UK please come with something orignal my god touch a nerve. Damn right the boredom nerve. What I am saying is actually crystal clear and consistent and I will break it down in simple form. A woman has the ultimate right to whether she conceives or not whether the man wants it or not or terminate if he wants or not. So he is basically irrlevent because she will not give up that right. Then she has to be consistent. Not difficult is it....So you saying well it took two to make the child means nothiing does it because it is not two people's decision that counts is it?
Once you veto my wishes girlfriend it is your show from there simple as...
Yep defintitely have touced a nerve. The irritation nerve at students who do not grasp the obvious in their face.
FB
You are incredibly rude, aggresive and ignorant, but not cyrstal clear, I speak of a woman's right over her body and you start on about welfare? You speak of a women taking their reasonsibilities seriously which I can only read in one of two ways.
1. A man has no responsibilities in the occurance of a pregnancy
or
2. Men already fulfil their responsibilites in this area therefore it is women that need to take a closer look at their actions.
As both of these possibilities are clearly inacurate.
This 'student' has also seen the outcome of a man 'stamp a child out of this woman's belly' (his words) because she wouldn't get the termination he insisted on and yes the child died. I have come across a whole catalogue of actions and abuse (physical and non physical) that men have perpetuated when their 'partner' refuses to comply with their wishes on this subject.
So what you see as 'obvious' is purely a reflection of your ignorance.
Perhaps one day you will learn that discussion is about learning and the exchange of ideas rather the aggression and general rudeness and bullying you display..... but then again, I suspect you have far to many emotional issues for that to ever happen.....
Noir UK
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malumu
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 01:06 |
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.
Noir UK wrote
.
This 'student' has also seen the outcome of a man 'stamp a child out of this woman's belly' (his words) because she wouldn't get the termination he insisted on and yes the child died. I have come across a whole catalogue of actions and abuse (physical and non physical) that men have perpetuated when their 'partner' refuses to comply with their wishes on this subject. A man couldnt do this only a peice of sh.. from a Psycotic rat/snake could do this...I would love to brake every bone in the bastar... body....I hope he went to prison and is getting tortured by the crims..I hate this man and all men like him.... If I ruled the world they would be ....
But FREDBLACK was refering not to this terrible situation but to the fact that women have the last say in the matter and the mans choice is irrelevent...He does have apoint
Last edited on Sunday June 19th, 2005 01:12 by malumu
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Noir_UK
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 01:38 |
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malumu wrote: .
Noir UK wrote
.
This 'student' has also seen the outcome of a man 'stamp a child out of this woman's belly' (his words) because she wouldn't get the termination he insisted on and yes the child died. I have come across a whole catalogue of actions and abuse (physical and non physical) that men have perpetuated when their 'partner' refuses to comply with their wishes on this subject. A man couldnt do this only a peice of sh.. from a Psycotic rat/snake could do this...I would love to brake every bone in the bastar... body....I hope he went to prison and is getting tortured by the crims..I hate this man and all men like him.... If I ruled the world they would be ....
I can only say my feelings for such a man aren't too far from yours.
But FREDBLACK was refering not to this terrible situation but to the fact that women have the last say in the matter and the mans choice is irrelevent...He does have apoint
My point is that women SHOULD have the final say, but not everyone agrees with that, hence the orginal question.
The situation I've pointed out is an extreme case, but their are many less extreme cases where the woman is bullied or cajoled out of this choice. to ignore this group in such a discussion is to ignore the very group it most affects.
I have come across enough women who have teminated preganancies because they have been effectively forced to do so and have had to live with the regret the rest of their lives. Let us not forget that not everyone has the strength or knowledge to face up to someone bullying them particularly at such a vunerable time.
As for FB's referance, simple - it is possible to express disagreement without being rude, insulting and aggresive.
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Fredblack
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 02:38 |
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Noir UK stop talking in cliches. I have issues with stupid people period and stupid women even more. The issue I have is with these weak and contrdictiory arguments. They insult intelligent people or perhaps you don't know any. The woman's right to choose is based on what? You don't have to be smart to work that out.
Then you talk about a man was involved in creating a child. Well quite frankly if you are that lacking intellectually to see the fundamental contradictions in what you say then you need to speak to people with less intelligence. It is not difficult. A woman is utlimimately responsible for protecting herself and that principle is as old as human history.
What has that example you gave to do with anything?. A woman gets pregnant for a man who is violently predisposed against it and that means what? Don't be getting pregnant for men who are dead against it and protect yourself in that regard. What is complicated. A man with something to lose will take protection for his own good, but ulitmately a woman is going to be left hanging so she better make sure her sh*t is taken care of. So a man attacking her has no relevence whatsoever and is a completely irrelevent to the disscussion and issue. sh*t happens..She wants something against his will. That is called a conflict and each use their resources. Her womb or deceit and him his ability to knock her head it. Called human behaviour.
What are you under the illusion when fantasy baby comes along many men share that need or wish and will feel the same way. Girl get real.
You shouldn't come and take intellectual issue with my point if you don't have the brain to respond adequately or even understand what is being said given that I support the woman's right to choose but also the requirment of consitency that goes with it. But you don't want that do you?. What you want is for men like me to agree with the woman's right which we do and then want to come and chuck it on men again about he was involve in making the baby. Sorry can't work.
One position logically negates the other or is that too difficult for you to understand that point?. And I was jumping ahead because we have seen the corollary in real flesh and blood and the stats. It then becomes the state has the duty to support your child. No you take that role and that power and go with it. You cannot have it every way and think you are dealing with idiots. The basis of a woman;s right is that it is her body to decide even if the man disagrees. You then cannot by same token then assume he has equal authority or responsiblity or any other party. It is called logical consistency or haven't you heard of that before?.
As I said the issue I have is lack of basic intelligence which is being demonstrated here. Sorry if it appear rude. It is a product of good schooling where foolishness is not tolerated and cut dead in its tracks....Which is clearly what you are arguing. I want it every way I want it.
Seen it a million time and it is intellectually insulting and I do take issue with it because it is this double dealing that women like you want to use on men, but they must be mugs or arseholes not to see what your angle is. You want to cover all basis to protect your position. A bit like having only benefits in a contract but not responsiblities or only responsibiilties you like not those you don't want.
That is insulting and if you are offended. Good because you obvioulsy think men are idiots..
FB
Last edited on Sunday June 19th, 2005 02:55 by Fredblack
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Noir_UK
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 03:00 |
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Fredblack wrote: Noir UK stop talking in cliches. I have issues with stupid people period. The issue I have is with these weak and contrdictiory arguments. They insult intelligent people or perhaps you don't know any. The woman's right to choose is based on what? You don't have to be smart to work that out.
Then you talk about a man was involved in creating a child. Well quite frankly if you are that lacking intellectually to see the fundamental contradictions in what you say then you need to speak to people with less intelligence. It is not difficult. You shouldn't come and take intellectual issue with my point if you don't have the brain to respond adequately or even understand what is being said given that I support the woman's right to choose but also the requirment of consitency that goes with it. But you don't want that do you?
One position logically negates the other or is that too difficult for you to understand that point?. And I was jumping ahead because we have seen the corollary in real flesh and blood and the stats. It then becomes the state has the duty to support your child. No you take that role and that power and go with it. You cannot have it every way and think you are dealing with idiots. The basis of a woman;s right is that it is her body to decide even if the man disagrees. You then cannot by same token then assume he has equal authority or responsiblity or any other party. It is called logical consistency or haven't you heard of that before?.
As I said the issue I have is lack of basic intelligence which is being demonstrated here. Sorry if it appear rude. It is a product of good schooling where foolishness is not tolerated and cut dead in its tracks....Which is clearly what you are arguing. I want it every way I want it. Seen it a million time and it is intellectually insulting.
FB
You know what? only a fool thinks their view is THE only view, which seems to be the case with you! So far you have shown zero intelligence in your responses only the irrational rantings of a man who clearly has serious issue with. women. I see no conflict in what I have said. Nor am I seeing the cliches you speak of.
let me make this easy for you:
1 - It takes two people to make a child one man one woman. Therfore both people have a responsibility to procreate in a responsible manner and to take care of any resultant child.
2 - Nature dictates that a woman carries said child therefore the termination or continuation of a pregancy affects the womans physical and emotional health. This is why I believe the final choice is the womans because she is making a decision on her basic existance. No one has the right to take such a decision away from a functioning adult male or female.
3 - The instance of men forcing their will on women is hardly rare, it is a common event the world over. Pretending it doesn't happen, in no way changes the fact of it's occurances.
Your mysogeny screams out from your posts FB..... which means reason isn't something that's available to you on such a topic. So I'll leave to to spit or swallow my last response to you on this topic...... as you wish
Noir UK
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 03:37 |
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Lets look at the other side to the story.
Loads of people are saying that a man does not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body, but what the reality is, is does he have the right to save his child that he wants from dying unnecessarily??
Why should we assume that the man wouldnt look after the child? He might be a good man who was in a relationship, his partner got pregnant but doesnt want the child, but he is willing to raise the child himself.
Women, we have to turn the situation around and put ourself in their shoes. Imagine someone could kill your child without your permission? Imagine the feeling of no control or say, that would be horrible.
If this was a woman being pregnant and the man telling her to get rid of it, everyone would say that was a horrible thing. Imagine if he could make her not have it even if she wanted it that would be even worse.
A child may be carried in a woman but it made by two people. Why is it right for mens choices to come after birth, but yet if the woman decided to keep a child she would expect the man to be helping throughout the pregnancy as well.
I do believe a man should be able to want to keep a child if he is willing raise the child on his own (just like many women do), the only problem is there is no way we can determine that he will stick to this before a child is born, and that is the catch 22 situation.
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Fredblack
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 03:52 |
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@Noir UK Sis I long for black women to come here and stop talking in cliches which white people handed down to them, eg you must have "issues" or "mysogonist" because I take serious issues with you. But you know what has never stopped me from getting highly talented and quality black women and hot and sexy woman at that.
So go and figure. In my fact my theory is the more antagonistic I am the more women who seem to to chase a brother so go and work it out, if you think those weak white girl lables will make me blink once. The day I do that I lose my appeal big time .
What I find so offensive and if you examine any post where I address anyting to do with women is the hypocritcal double standards which means you will never be respected by intelligent black men, never becuase men tend to be very very rational in orientation did you not know?. And what you want to advance here is hypocrisy...
You don't have to justify a woman' s right to me because I agreed with it from my first line. Now on the issue of men threatening to break women's neck's I also agree with it too. Becuase I do not acecept either party violating the other and again what you want is a liscence.
Let me give you an example. My younger brother had this woman on his tail. She was smitten with him and he wasn't interested, but she did not rest. And was on his tail for years, even though he had a woman who she knew. One day he relented after she was pushing her things on him and they began to have sex on and off with protection etc.
In fact it was going on for some time and nobody knew especially me. They went from condoms to the pill etc. Unbeknowingly she came off the pill got pregnant and waited until 3 months beyond any possible termination date then sprung the news on my brother. What do you he would do get out his Cuban cigars? Then she told him almost taunting there was nothing he could do about it. This that and the other. Wrong move fooilish girl.
When my brother check the play, especially the 3 months business he went mental and told her if she thinks she wants to live have that child and find out who she is messing with. When she realise my brother is going her rip her head off her body and shove it up her arse if she thinks she can use her womb to black mail him. The girl phones me scarred and I told me my brother is threating her. I told her that is typical of him to advertise what he is intentding, because I will do her myself and with no warning.
If she thinks she is going to bring any child into my family through nastiness and deceit, plus she has one already and my family are funny about things like that. For her own sake she did not want to be part of our family and let our women on her as my mother says women come into this family through the front door not the back , because that is how she and others got it. The women in my family would treat her like some cheap whore and make her open her mouth and find out.
She got so hysterical and had a miscarriage. So god is good because we did not have to go and show her god hasn't made a woman who is going to hold our family at ransom with her p***y; especially one who is baby mother already. She knew what she was doing and was calculatede as she was obbessed with my brother and dislike his woman (like the girl did her something). But she thinks her and him are some bueatifful couple blessed with looks and style and sh*t.
The same way you as a woman want to abuse the power god gave you of motherhood, and use your p***y like a weapon or gun, do you not realise there are men who will kiill you or beat you one inch short of death?.
And sorry Malumu the men in my family are not small little weak men who fear any man in any shape or form. So anybody thinkiing they will stand up for this woman knew better that is why she phone me in her "damsell in distress mode" to think big brother could save her because she was terrified for my brother to return from the US and pay her that visit because she knew what was going to happen. After she gave my brother mouth that "there was nothing he could do about it". Well we would see about that wouldn't we?
I hate hypocrisy and black female double standards. She instigated something improper (no doubts about it) and then wants to use her force and power to engineer particular outcomes against a man's will and then expect him to lay down like a punk. Find a punk to play those games with girlfiiend. Because other men WILL HURT YOU.....
A child should be wanted by both parties and not some weapon used by too many black women to use for their own personal agenda or advantage regardles of that child's interests. Once upon a time good mothers put their kids first now most of these girls don't give a f**k about their children in their games.
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Noir_UK
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Posted: Sunday June 19th, 2005 04:35 |
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IYALLAH. wrote: Lets look at the other side to the story.
Loads of people are saying that a man does not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body, but what the reality is, is does he have the right to save his child that he wants from dying unnecessarily?? In truth? I don't believe a man has the right to the final say on terminating OR continuing a pregnancy, and it does often work the other way round that a man will want on a termination when the woman wants to keep the child.
Why should we assume that the man wouldnt look after the child? He might be a good man who was in a relati |
