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Judge J
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 14:20 |
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I remember hearing about this film over a year ago in the New Nation. Forester Whittaker stars as Idid Amin.
I think its based on the book by Giles Foden. for more information about the film
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808762866/info
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0571195644
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 14:26 |
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| I saw the trailer for the Film and I'm not sure this film is going to be a glowing recommedation of Idi...looks interesting tho
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Kibibi
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 14:29 |
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Hmmm@ the film, not sure if I will bother to see this.
No shortage of cash to portray the 'negative' African figure. This is what the 4th or 5th film in two years?
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 18:20 |
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Serious question here...should we as African people actually play these types of roles that are deeply regrettable and most of us wish we could erase or forget? Of course in this case, I am speaking about Forrest Whittaker.
It is how the ancient peoples of Kemet, Kush, Nubia, and even West Africa such as the Yoruba, would destroy documents, statues, and any records of what the people deemed disdainful of their own people. This does not mean to not talk about certain things, but people like Idi Amin should not even be fortunate enough to have a positive memory about him. I can remember after the reign of Pharaoh Akhenaten in Kemet, he was only allowed to be referred to as "The Fallen One", or other like names because of his utterly repugnant years of regency. No one even knew about an Akhenaten in the last 3000 years until Amarna was accidentally found in 1887.
Perhaps this should be an unwritten policy amongst African people today. When you think about it, it may have contributed to why these ancient African civilizations endured for millenia until they forgot who they were. I think focusing on these negative historical characters actually deviates attention from actually knowing ourselves as a people. At the same time, I am sure Forest Whittaker will be nominated for an Oscar since he highlighting a particular African role that Europeans love to see...that is when Africans kill each other and perpetuate their own dissolution.
Last edited on Wednesday September 6th, 2006 18:22 by Shemsi en Tehuti
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 19:44 |
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Shemsi en Tehuti wrote: Serious question here...should we as African people actually play these types of roles that are deeply regrettable and most of us wish we could erase or forget? Of course in this case, I am speaking about Forrest Whittaker.
It is how the ancient peoples of Kemet, Kush, Nubia, and even West Africa such as the Yoruba, would destroy documents, statues, and any records of what the people deemed disdainful of their own people. This does not mean to not talk about certain things, but people like Idi Amin should not even be fortunate enough to have a positive memory about him. I can remember after the reign of Pharaoh Akhenaten in Kemet, he was only allowed to be referred to as "The Fallen One", or other like names because of his utterly repugnant years of regency. No one even knew about an Akhenaten in the last 3000 years until Amarna was accidentally found in 1887.
Perhaps this should be an unwritten policy amongst African people today. When you think about it, it may have contributed to why these ancient African civilizations endured for millenia until they forgot who they were. I think focusing on these negative historical characters actually deviates attention from actually knowing ourselves as a people. At the same time, I am sure Forest Whittaker will be nominated for an Oscar since he highlighting a particular African role that Europeans love to see...that is when Africans kill each other and perpetuate their own dissolution.
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Just to highlight some points here. As evil and cruel as Amin was and protrayed, there are even worse than him. The president Amin succeeded Milton Obote was far more worse than Amin. Dr. Obote killed many people; more people than Amin, except that he Obote did it silently without attracting attention to himself.
If Amin had kept a low profile instead of instigating the British and crowning himself King of Africa and Scotland, I don't think there would be any negative potrayal of him. Saw the movie back in Africa and some of the things he was alleged of doing were not really correct. Yes he was crazy and a nutcase.
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 19:59 |
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Vubundada_Kandaba wrote: Just to highlight some points here. As evil and cruel as Amin was and protrayed, there are even worse than him. The president Amin succeeded Milton Obote was far more worse than Amin. Dr. Obote killed many people; more people than Amin, except that he Obote did it silently without attracting attention to himself.
If Amin had kept a low profile instead of instigating the British and crowning himself King of Africa and Scotland, I don't think there would be any negative potrayal of him. Saw the movie back in Africa and some of the things he was alleged of doing were not really correct. Yes he was crazy and a nutcase.
Do you not think it is our job as self-determined Pan-Africanists to highlight even the atrocities that do not necessarily grab the attention of the West? I think we shouldn't give a flying fug about where the West's attention is directed, because theirs is always directed at their own interests. When it comes to erasing these folks from our history, I meant even those like Obote as well. I wasn't singling our Amin, because you are right that there were and still are those far worse IMO. I only mean in general, should we not even give significant attention to these things?
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Judge J
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 20:42 |
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dam ive got some serious reading to do. I don't really know anything about idi amin to be honest except that he kicked the asians out og uganda, coulkd anyone recommend any sources wto aid me?
also do the negatives about him outweigh the positives
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 20:45 |
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Forest Whittaker...interesting choice...gonna need a good job by the make up artists to make him look a deep purple
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Hrunopi
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 20:51 |
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Another movie about Idi Amin?
Who's directing/producing/screenwriting?
That'll help you make up your mind about things real quick...
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 20:52 |
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Incognito wrote: Forest Whittaker...interesting choice...gonna need a good job by the make up artists to make him look a deep purple
Incognito: I've seen the trailer believe me he looks like the man....
However what will be interesting is if these filmmakers include the obvious facts, like Amin was actually a sargeant in the Army formed by the British...that he was put in power by the British even tho they knew he was serious unqualified to run the country.. I wonder if they will also include the obvious facts that Isreal and the UK supplied him with arms before and during his atrosities that helped keep him in power...and I really wonder if the filmaker will include the fact that he learnt his barbarity with British he was known for BEFORE they installed him as leader..
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Prince Hakeem
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 21:38 |
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The film looks quite interesting.
I know during his reign there were unsubstantiated rumours that he was into cannibalism....I'd be surprised if the film doesn't exploit THAT.....
P.S. - Oh did anyone notice our guy David 'Shoot the Messenger' Oyelowo is in it?
Last edited on Wednesday September 6th, 2006 21:47 by Prince Hakeem
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safetyblitz
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 21:58 |
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Vubundada_Kandaba wrote: Shemsi en Tehuti wrote: Serious question here...should we as African people actually play these types of roles that are deeply regrettable and most of us wish we could erase or forget? Of course in this case, I am speaking about Forrest Whittaker.
It is how the ancient peoples of Kemet, Kush, Nubia, and even West Africa such as the Yoruba, would destroy documents, statues, and any records of what the people deemed disdainful of their own people. This does not mean to not talk about certain things, but people like Idi Amin should not even be fortunate enough to have a positive memory about him. I can remember after the reign of Pharaoh Akhenaten in Kemet, he was only allowed to be referred to as "The Fallen One", or other like names because of his utterly repugnant years of regency. No one even knew about an Akhenaten in the last 3000 years until Amarna was accidentally found in 1887.
Perhaps this should be an unwritten policy amongst African people today. When you think about it, it may have contributed to why these ancient African civilizations endured for millenia until they forgot who they were. I think focusing on these negative historical characters actually deviates attention from actually knowing ourselves as a people. At the same time, I am sure Forest Whittaker will be nominated for an Oscar since he highlighting a particular African role that Europeans love to see...that is when Africans kill each other and perpetuate their own dissolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to highlight some points here. As evil and cruel as Amin was and protrayed, there are even worse than him. The president Amin succeeded Milton Obote was far more worse than Amin. Dr. Obote killed many people; more people than Amin, except that he Obote did it silently without attracting attention to himself.
If Amin had kept a low profile instead of instigating the British and crowning himself King of Africa and Scotland, I don't think there would be any negative potrayal of him. Saw the movie back in Africa and some of the things he was alleged of doing were not really correct. Yes he was crazy and a nutcase.
Now see THIS is why I came to this site initially to learn things like this a Continental view of Amin. Here he is portrayed as evil incarnate in Africa and it is hard pressed to find something here well for me to find something that says other wise.
What other light do you have to shed on Idi?
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 22:20 |
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Shemsi en Tehuti wrote: Do you not think it is our job as self-determined Pan-Africanists to highlight even the atrocities that do not necessarily grab the attention of the West? I think we shouldn't give a flying fug about where the West's attention is directed, because theirs is always directed at their own interests. When it comes to erasing these folks from our history, I meant even those like Obote as well. I wasn't singling our Amin, because you are right that there were and still are those far worse IMO. I only mean in general, should we not even give significant attention to these things?
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True true Shemsi I agree, we must condemn all dictators that is why I highlighted the fact about Milton Obote which alot of people do not know about and to let people know; so we can all put them all together in a pile and be forgotten as soon as possible. Second point I wanted to highlight is the movies about Amin which to me would not have been made if he (Amin) never instigated the British. When Amin first came to power their was mass celebration because finally people thought the worst was gone in the person of Obote but people were later to regret. The part I was saying that is not true is the canibalism part which is not true ( British propaganda to shame Amin). I say this because Me and Amin come from the same area and the same ethnic group(tribe) in Sudan and in the first few years of his rule some of the high ranking people in Amins circles that were running the country were actually my relatives and many of them left and fled back to Sudan becaue they did not agree with him(Amin) and when he became too dictatorial and started killing people including his own people who went against him. Amin then surrounded himself with yes men and became paranoid and that was when things really got bad.
But true he is a dictator that should not be given the benefit of glorification via media and movie and he is an illeterate fool who should not have been in power in the first place in my opinion. I am surprised when I came to America and met some African Americans who glorify him and some even call themselves Idi Amin Dada, and I had to correct them of the atrocities he committed.
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 22:47 |
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safetyblitz wrote: Now see THIS is why I came to this site initially to learn things like this a Continental view of Amin. Here he is portrayed as evil incarnate in Africa and it is hard pressed to find something here well for me to find something that says other wise. What other light do you have to shed on Idi?
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@ Safetyblitz. Idi Amin Dada is a nutcase and a very sick and sardistic individual who should have been committed to a psychiatristic hospital from the day he was born. The worst mistake the British made was give a crazy man a gun and turn him into a soldier and we all know what could happen. There are a variety of factors that led Amin to rise to power the most significant was the war in Sudan in the 1960s.
Amin was actually placed in power because of the events in Sudan which was a big mistake to the people who put him there, mainly the Israelis with the approval of the British who armed him. The president before Amin, Obote would not cooperate and assist with the events in Sudan at that time so he was overthrown and replaced with the fool Amin. They thought they could control him since he was uneducated and a fool. He got out of control of his handlers. I think people should forget Amin as soon as possible because he did nothing GOOD. But I know this, Amin later regretted a lot of the things he did. He was a lonely man in Saudi Arabia and longed to come home but he knew he would be skinned alive thus he died in Saudi Arabia. Even the Kakwa people from which I come from do not want him around and nobody talks about Amin. My uncle who lives here in the States was a commanding officer in the air-force in Amins times and he quit and left because Amin was crazy and to this day you would not hear him mention the name Amin.
People like Mengistu Haile Mariam of Ethiopia killed far more people than Amin. The present rulers of Sudan killed even far more. Jean Bidal Bokassa and others I could not remember off the top of my head would make Amin look like an amateur. Amin was evil but the people I listed were far more evil and I think they are all evil incarnate.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 23:01 |
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Forrest is one of my favourite actors and he'll probably do a good job. I haven't seen him in a bad role yet. I realise there will be a view that an African should have played the role but I suspect the studio was looking for a big name to push the movie.
Hmm
Lots of mentions of Israel here but I can garauntee the ONE mention of Israel you will find. When they went in to sneak out some of their people who were held by the PLO in Uganda and fought them and Amin's soldiers. They even made a movie about that *sigh* with heroic Israelis and so on. This is the role of Israel they'll play up. Anything else would be "anti-semetic" and wouldn't get in a movie.
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 23:17 |
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Lets see what are some of the crazy things Amin Did.
(1) Proclaim himself the conquerer of the British Empire and King of Africa.
(2) Gave all his sons Scottish names (Mccintosh etc, etc) and proclaim himself King of Scotland.
(3) Gave himself the title of Dr, Professor, Emperor, Field Marshall, and Lords of all beasts and fishes in the sea.
(4) Wore a scottish kilt to meet heads of states and showed up in Saudi Arabia for an important event looking like a Scottish Bloke with bag pipe.
(5) Proposed marriage to the queen of England.
(6) Forced several white dignitaries to lift him on a golden chair like he was a royal king.
(7) Threathen to invade South Africa to free the blacks from apartheid.
(8) Aggraveted the hell out of the British.
(9) Allied himself with the PLO and then held hostages which no sane leader would do.
Good thing he did was kick the asians out of Uganda within 72 hours.
Last edited on Thursday September 7th, 2006 00:01 by Vubundada_Kandaba
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 23:19 |
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Vubundada: help me out..as I understand it ..it was the BRITISH who put this illiterate man into power, because they got fed up of Obote... Latrer Ireali arms helped keep him in power even when it was known he was committing crimes against his people...am I wrong?
Ps...It might also interest you to know that many people in this country feel he was hero for fling out the Asians out of Uganda...Personally whilst I can see this point I have a tough time thinking of him as 'good'...
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Wednesday September 6th, 2006 23:59 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Vubundada: help me out..as I understand it ..it was the BRITISH who put this illiterate man into power, because they got fed up of Obote... Latrer Ireali arms helped keep him in power even when it was known he was committing crimes against his people...am I wrong?
Ps...It might also interest you to know that many people in this country feel he was hero for fling out the Asians out of Uganda...Personally whilst I can see this point I have a tough time thinking of him as 'good'...
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@Kunjufu. Yes the British trained him during colonial times where he proved to be an effective soldier. They then put him in charge and sent him to Kenya to fight the people who wanted independence and he was very feared in Kenya. At one time he lined up several Masaai men, put them in a line with their penises on a stone and threathen to cut their pennises off one by one unless they reveal where they were hiding the guns. They quickly confessed and the British saw how effective he was in intimadation and doing their work for them and he was promoted and rose through the ranks even though they knew he could not read nor write well. I think he had like a primary 4-5 education.
The British then help him to power because they were fed up with Obote. It was important to note that the idea of ruling and being in power was not in Amins head but it was the British who put it into his head. The Israelis then help him build his army and gave him all that he asked for. Amin was a moslem from a young age; but in office he discovered islam again and he turned against the Israelis and then the British and allied himself with the PLO, Gaddafi of Libya and all the Anti Western forces.
It is also important to note that Tanzania was assited by the west in invading Uganda and throwing Amin out of office. They were western arms and advisors who directed the invasion of Uganda. Amin could have been removed from within without war just as he was installed from within. unfortunately the west wanted his neck really bad and they wanted to humiliate him. To add salt to injury they brought Obote back to power and he Obote was overthrown within a few years. Obote fled to Zambia where he remained and died.
I personally think that the one good thing Amin did was kick out the Asians. In that I would say he was a hero. If you go to Kenya today, the asians run the country and they holding the country hostage. They asians own the Kenyan economy in their hands and the Kenyans seem almost like second class citizens. With the economy in the asian hands, they can dictate what should and should not be done. Thank God, Uganda is not in the same situation Kenya is in because of what Amin did.
Last edited on Thursday September 7th, 2006 00:10 by Vubundada_Kandaba
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday September 7th, 2006 00:06 |
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Thanks Vubundada...I thought that is how it went...and actually I've been to Kenya and I was appalled at how non African Kenya was....it was disgusting... I was taken on a cultural tour of Mombasa... Well I can tell you that I saw a Hindu temple, a Salve fort, held by the Arabs, Portugese and then the English and I went to a museam of sorts... At no time did the tour identify of show Kenyan culture...it doesn't exist except with the Masai..
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Thursday September 7th, 2006 00:32 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Thanks Vubundada...I thought that is how it went...and actually I've been to Kenya and I was appalled at how non African Kenya was....it was disgusting... I was taken on a cultural tour of Mombasa... Well I can tell you that I saw a Hindu temple, a Salve fort, held by the Arabs, Portugese and then the English and I went to a museam of sorts... At no time did the tour identify of show Kenyan culture...it doesn't exist except with the Masai..
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You are welcomed Kunjufu. It is a dis-grace what is happening in Kenya and a reminder to us all of what could happen. Another point to add. When most; or all of Africa was hiding and afraid of South Africa before they had nuclear weapons, it was Amin who wanted the whole of Africa to kick the whites (Afrikanaars) into the ocean. Probably if he had the power the whites in South Africa would have been given 72 hours to leave.
I could never really understand Amins infatuation (love) for Scotland. I believe probably he felt he needed to prove something or an inferiority complex I don't know. Imagine a big, dark black guy, in Scottish Kilt running around the World and calling himself the "King of Scotland". The guy one time showed up in England without an invitation wanting to speak to the queen about what I don't know. I think that was the ultimate insult to the British and the royal family. I remember when I was in Africa, the British would pay top dollar to buy the T-shirt of Amin being carried by white people. They would pay you top dollar to remove it off your back and give it to them so they can burn it.
But I know one thing. You will never see this pictures of Idi Amin Dada humiliating white people in the movie they are making.
Pledging allegance to the King of Africa.
Lifting the "King of Scotland"
Last edited on Thursday September 7th, 2006 00:37 by Vubundada_Kandaba
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday September 7th, 2006 00:45 |
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| Well Vubundada..given some of his behaviours whilst with the British...I suspect that he probably had a personality disorder... Can you imagine what it must be like to be thrust into that position without the skills to be competent, it must be really frightening..
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Thursday September 7th, 2006 02:28 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Well Vubundada..given some of his behaviours whilst with the British...I suspect that he probably had a personality disorder... Can you imagine what it must be like to be thrust into that position without the skills to be competent, it must be really frightening..
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Kunjufu, I never thought of it that way, but what you said made sense. It is similar to the Mike Tyson situation, a young cat with little education and little sense ;thrusted into the limelight with mill |
