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Demetrius Caldwell
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 13:25 |
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Do any of you know why black films are not huge money makers outside the US?
Besides the occasional Wil Smith or Eddie Murphy movie, I can't think of any movie(well except maybe Coming to America) with an almost all black cast that has reached the 100 million dollar mark overseas. I mean movies from the Barbershop and Friday series, which make a good profit here in America, are almost ignored overseas. Why is that? Could people in other parts of the world still be afraid or racist of black people? What do you people think?
Also I just like to say that I've gotten rid of my old message board and replaced it with a new one. To go there click on(sorry you cannot posts links to other forums without permission...)
Last edited on Tuesday May 31st, 2005 14:45 by Kunjufu
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 13:35 |
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because most of them are CRAP and not opnly black films but most films made in hollywwod
why do you think Blaxploitation was huge back in the day?
why do you think nowadays black music from America is CRAP?
why do you think there are many black men in jails than in Universities?
Why do you think there are so many black kids being raised in single house hold?
why do you think we have lost a direction?
why?
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dimoke
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 13:43 |
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The reason i wouldn't pay my money to wacth majority of black American films is because they are simply RUBISH! Sorry, but its the truth, i can't for the life of me sit for an hour just to listen to some grown ass black people who should know better going around calling themselves N****rS!.....
Most of them are just made to make fun of black Americans....its like some of you are quick to sell your people with steroetypes just to make a quick dollar....well, i have made a conscious decision not to be part of that delusion.
Most of blacks in Europe and all over the world find it absurd with your abssesion of the N****r word, and blond weaves, women who look like they only have about 5% black in them being called BLACK women, and brothers living just doing what is necesery to survive at the expense of the black community they come from.............
Sorry dear, you asked....
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King Tubbs
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 14:08 |
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COLTRANE wrote: because most of them are CRAP and not opnly black films but most films made in hollywwod
why do you think Blaxploitation was huge back in the day?
why do you think nowadays black music from America is CRAP?
why do you think there are many black men in jails than in Universities?
Why do you think there are so many black kids being raised in single house hold?
why do you think we have lost a direction?
why?
I agree with your points Coltrane but you havent really answered the question, why do black films do badly vis-a-vis white films which as you suggest are in many cases just as bad.
I agree with Dimoke on this one most, not all, are very poor (Soul Plane, Beauty Shop, Friday etc) self hating rubbish.
However Dimoke you say most blacks in europe find the US blacks obsession with n****r absurd, sad truth is nowadays many of our youth (in the UK) have adopted it hook line and sinker, I overhere the word used by black youngsters on the bus all the time.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 14:12 |
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king
BECAUSE MAJORITY OF THE FILMS ARE CRAP FROM SCRIP,ACTORS,CINEMATOGRAPHY TO EDITING AND PROMOTION
do u think Weinstein got where he is because of CRAP
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dimoke
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 14:20 |
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King Tubbs wrote: .
I agree with Dimoke on this one most, not all, are very poor (Soul Plane, Beauty Shop, Friday etc) self hating rubbish.
However Dimoke you say most blacks in europe find the US blacks obsession with n****r absurd, sad truth is nowadays many of our youth (in the UK) have adopted it hook line and sinker, I overhere the word used by black youngsters on the bus all the time.
Well KT, thats where it ends. The difference is that in the US, GROWN men and women go around using the word like water.....and then they take it to the screens with them, for the whole world to see and here us blacks degrading ourselves even more....that my dear is where the difference lies....here a few confused rap listening kids can delude themselves with the word for a few teenage years, then they grow out of it once they know better....over there they have literaly reclaimed it as something worth while adopting.
However as you did see, i said not all of them...some of them are quite enjoyable and are my favourite classics...Soul food was a good film, and i can bet you that if it was a *white* film, their would have been some golden globes trophies for the actors...
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afroamericangirl
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 15:32 |
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Well one thing to keep in mind is that Comedies and Action films make all the big bucks in America (especially Action films). These kinds of movies may not be as popular overseas as they are in America.
Very few dramas make 200 and 300 million dollars!
Yet I assume from my time on this forum, people on here prefer to see Afro-Americans in slavery films!
Last edited on Tuesday May 31st, 2005 15:35 by afroamericangirl
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Niani
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 16:20 |
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Demetrius Caldwell wrote: Do any of you know why black films are not huge money makers outside the US?
Besides the occasional Wil Smith or Eddie Murphy movie, I can't think of any movie(well except maybe Coming to America) with an almost all black cast that has reached the 100 million dollar mark overseas. I mean movies from the Barbershop and Friday series, which make a good profit here in America, are almost ignored overseas. Why is that? Could people in other parts of the world still be afraid or racist of black people? What do you people think?
Also I just like to say that I've gotten rid of my old message board and replaced it with a new one. To go there click on(sorry you cannot posts links to other forums without permission...)
It might be because most of them are crap. I would dare say that if a trend toward healthy, historic and current films were made which depicted African/Black peoples in our proper context....not all of this cooning and buck-dancing..in time they would be supported. This is more than a notion, it can't be a fair weather endeavor. There are many African/Black screen writers out there with worthy material and I know of atleast one Black owned studio, started by Tim Reid....I thought I heard about another being started.
We (Africans/Blacks) MUST take control of how our images that are sent out around the world. We don't control "the media" so we must be very careful of how we carry ourselves whilst allowing someone else to film and edit us. Until we define and control our images those that are not our friends are going to continue to do what they are doing....and this includes those with brown and black skins.
@Dimoke
Sista, I am one of those barely-Black women that you are referring to, however I was raised in the African-American culture and was raised to know I was and am an African. I was reared in the southern part of the US and for many of my brothas and sistas outside of the US, growing up in the south meant.......far more often then not..... that you retained quite a bit of your African culture. Altho you may not have been able to say what it specifically was.....you knew it wasn't what the white folks were doing.
I have no control over what happened with my African grandmothers and those vile, savage, rapicious (sp) europeans. My motto now is: I may not have been born in Africa, but Africa was born in me.
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Baron_Samedi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 17:48 |
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I have to agree with some of the posters that a lot of the Black movies are crap, I,e, Soulplane, Friday, Booty Call and the likes.
Also a lot of it has to do with Marketing. A movie made foe $3 million in the States and grosses $40 million has already done what it was intended, couple that with DVD rental a sales and you have a winner in terms of economics. Most major studios do not put marketing muscles behind these films like say a Will Smith movie or an Eddie Murphy or Chriss tucker movie that cost over $50 million dollars to produce.
@Dimoke:
I noticed that you take issue with Western Blacks. Your continuous commentary speaks volumes of you attitude. Light skinned Black Women like Thandie Newton and others in the UK and SA are no different from the Vanessa Williams, Christina Milam's, and Lisa Raye's. Blond Weaves were prevalent on the MTV Base premiere in Africa by Africans.
@ Coltrane:
The prevalence of the N-Word used by adults is sad but just as with music that you call crap it is the choice of people abroad to listen to 50 cent or Talib Kweli. There are choices, every piece of enetertainment medium isn't negative.
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Baron_Samedi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 17:49 |
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@ Niani:
Dame, don't get offended by these posts, you will see a pattern of contempt for Red bones and BA culture by people who never read Harlem Renaissance writers, Never been to America, don't have BA friends and don't have a clue. You will catch wreck for being light skinned by Dames who use Bleaching creams and hear kats dissin BA culture while mimicing us. It's a damn shame but that is how they do! Oh, Redbone you gotta a pic?
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efenjee
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 17:59 |
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Baron_Samedi wrote:
@Dimoke:
I noticed that you take issue with Western Blacks. Your continuous commentary speaks volumes of you attitude. Light skinned Black Women like Thandie Newton and others in the UK and SA are no different from the Vanessa Williams, Christina Milam's, and Lisa Raye's. Blond Weaves were prevalent on the MTV Base premiere in Africa by Africans.
In the UK we do not call Thandie Newton (British actress) a light skinned black woman. We call her a mixed race woman because she has one white parent and one black parent. Just a few years ago we called them half-caste, and half-caste and black are two completely different things to most UK people, even UK white people know the difference. It isn't meant to be offensive when we put them into their own category away from true black people. In America I know it's different and anyone who looks like they may have black in them is referred to as being black so you need to be aware of the differences between UK and USA otherwise you'll get confused.
We cannot know the ancestry of all light skinned blacks and they may have white blood pretty near down the line but when we know of a person having one black parent and one white parent, it is almost unheard of for them to be described as a light skinned black person over here, in most cases it is visually obvious if someone has a white parent so there isn't much confusion. They don't even call themselves black. Javine, our UK hope for the Eurovision Song Contest was in the newspaper at the weekend saying she is proud to be a mixed race woman representing UK and she maybe could have gotten away with calling herself black, but chose not to mislead people. I have heard of some mixed race people that refer to themselves as the Golden race.
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chi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:03 |
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| Black US films depict the Black American way of life and therefore they tend to relate to those communities.
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chi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:07 |
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Does every thread have to make it's way to a dark skinned V light skinned issue?
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efenjee
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:19 |
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chi wrote: Does every thread have to make it's way to a dark skinned V light skinned issue?
Are you asking Baron Samedi that question or me? Just because Dimoke, rightly stated that people who may be as little as only 5% black are referred to as black in the USA but in the UK we recognise that they are not black but of mixed race, he seems to think she had a problem with light skinned black women.
I just made him aware that in the UK a light skinned black woman and a half caste (or the more PC 'mixed race') woman like Thandie Newton who he referred to - is two different things. I don't think it's a light skin v dark skin issue, do you?
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nodrama
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:20 |
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I would just like to support the last comment on this interesting debate.
I know I have gone off on a tangent, but I felt compelled to say this.
As a British-born Ghanaian, I find it tiresome that anyone of a particular hue is dubbed Black.
In Europe, two white people would classify themselves culturally. For example, one may see themselves as Italian, the other as French.
There is a VAST difference between them.
The culture of an African-American is barely understood in the UK- at best, our youth, try to emulate the media pop-culture jigaboosim trailblazed by the likes of Nelly and 50 cent.
But really. we have a different settler history. As a 31 year old, I am a very typical demographic:
My parents came here to make a better life, always spoke the native tongue in the household and sent me to Ghana regularly on holidays etc.
There are the earlier West Indian settlers who were invited by the British to re-build the country after the war. Again, they had a healthy relationship of where the parents were from.
Sometimes, I think it is easy for people like myself to view African Americans with contempt, dismissing these facts. It is true that in the UK, we do try to clarify people with origin, rather than with colour as it is far too one dimensional to understand a persons charachter or culture.
And the main topic? I think most US black films are terrible-it's either in ya face minstrelry for the 21st century or overly politically-aware: middle class family that can do no wrong (er..Cosbyism?)
I just want to see me! Is that too hard, Isn't there a story for the silent majority?
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Baron_Samedi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:26 |
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Enfenjee wrote:
n the UK we do not call Thandie Newton (British actress) a light skinned black woman. We call her a mixed race woman because she has one white parent and one black parent. Just a few years ago we called them half-caste, and half-caste and black are two completely different things to most UK people, even UK white people know the difference. It isn't meant to be offensive when we put them into their own category away from true black people. In America I know it's different and anyone who looks like they may have black in them is referred to as being black so you need to be aware of the differences between UK and USA otherwise you'll get confused.
We cannot know the ancestry of all light skinned blacks and they may have white blood pretty near down the line but when we know of a person having one black parent and one white parent, it is almost unheard of for them to be described as a light skinned black person over here, in most cases it is visually obvious if someone has a white parent so there isn't much confusion. They don't even call themselves black. Javine, our UK hope for the Eurovision Song Contest was in the newspaper at the weekend saying she is proud to be a mixed race woman representing UK and she maybe could have gotten away with calling herself black, but chose not to mislead people. I have heard of some mixed race people that refer to themselves as the Golden race.
Thanks for that Tidbit of info. In the USA we are like 40 million strong and light skinned people obviously have White or Native American blood, it can be recent or perhaps a few generations out. Here Blacks a re Black, some are light skinned, brown skinned, and dark skinned.
Sounds like you guys have some other issues going on there! But from what I understand Most Blacks are recent immigrants in the UK so this would be a more glaring issue. Never the less, Dimoke has a history of Black American Comtempt. Read a few of her posts in Black American Culure/Black versus African and the lot, you'll see what I see.
@Chi:
I saw a trend and called it out.
@Topic:
The movies speak of one experience and therefore will only appeal to that audience. Others will watch them, enjoy them and possibly choose to relate to them but there is something for everyone.Last edited on Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:31 by Baron_Samedi
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chi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:35 |
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efenjee wrote: chi wrote: Does every thread have to make it's way to a dark skinned V light skinned issue?
Are you asking Baron Samedi that question or me? Just because Dimoke, rightly stated that people who may be as little as only 5% black are referred to as black in the USA but in the UK we recognise that they are not black but of mixed race, he seems to think she had a problem with light skinned black women.
I just made him aware that in the UK a light skinned black woman and a half caste (or the more PC 'mixed race') woman like Thandie Newton who he referred to - is two different things. I don't think it's a light skin v dark skin issue, do you?
I thought it was supposed to be about why US black films don't do as well outside the US, abi?
btw I wasn't directing it to you sp[ecifically or anyone for that matter. We know that the one drop rule doesn't apply here in the UK and that some people are called biracial in the states....but what does that have to do with the thread title? I don't understand how it related to the failure of black US films in the UK. it was kind of out of the blue that racial background became part of the discussion. I suppose it was more of a distinction between light skinned and mixed race issue, but even then, I don't see how it relates.
Samedi and Dimoke's "discussion" was really not my concern (it maybe stems from something outside this particular thread) but I was taken aback to see the discussion go there, as usual, and so quickly................
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chi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:42 |
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nodrama wrote: I would just like to support the last comment on this interesting debate.
I know I have gone off on a tangent, but I felt compelled to say this.
As a British-born Ghanaian, I find it tiresome that anyone of a particular hue is dubbed Black.
In Europe, two white people would classify themselves culturally. For example, one may see themselves as Italian, the other as French.
There is a VAST difference between them.
The culture of an African-American is barely understood in the UK- at best, our youth, try to emulate the media pop-culture jigaboosim trailblazed by the likes of Nelly and 50 cent.
But really. we have a different settler history. As a 31 year old, I am a very typical demographic:
My parents came here to make a better life, always spoke the native tongue in the household and sent me to Ghana regularly on holidays etc.
There are the earlier West Indian settlers who were invited by the British to re-build the country after the war. Again, they had a healthy relationship of where the parents were from.
Sometimes, I think it is easy for people like myself to view African Americans with contempt, dismissing these facts. It is true that in the UK, we do try to clarify people with origin, rather than with colour as it is far too one dimensional to understand a persons charachter or culture.
And the main topic? I think most US black films are terrible-it's either in ya face minstrelry for the 21st century or overly politically-aware: middle class family that can do no wrong (er..Cosbyism?)
I just want to see me! Is that too hard, Isn't there a story for the silent majority?
 agree 100%
Thankyou "breath of fresh air", otherwised known as "nodrama".....
It's time for us to develop our own entertainment industy, so that we can talk about what is important to us and share where we are coming from with others......to be fair, I have a hard time even trying to convince Americans (black or white) that I'm not the only black peron in the whole of the UK. Its not up to black americans to entertain us though....their first duty is to their own people.
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efenjee
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:51 |
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chi wrote: I thought it was supposed to be about why US black films don't do as well outside the US, abi?
Yes that is the topic, most people have said it's because US black films are rubbish.
btw I wasn't directing it to you specifically or anyone for that matter. We know that the one drop rule doesn't apply here in the UK and that some people are called biracial in the states....but what does that have to do with the thread title? I don't understand how it related to the failure of black US films in the UK. it was kind of out of the blue that racial background became part of the discussion.
Dimoke's post was more about the differences between USA black culture to the culture of blacks in Europe, part of that is that in the USA anyone with black blood is black but in Europe (UK specifically), where most blacks are fairly recent immigrants, we do not subscribe to that view.
I suppose it was more of a distinction between light skinned and mixed race issue, but even then, I don't see how it relates.
If Baron had let the remark pass it wouldn't have been a big deal as Dimoke just used that example to illustrate the difference between UK and USA black people. When Baron followed it up by telling Niani that being a 'redbone' would mean she will experience problems with someone like Dimoke and then went on to refer to Thandie Newton (an actress I like) as being a lightskinned black woman, I felt it was necessary (as Dimoke is not here!) to correct him, he understands the difference now I think.
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chi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 18:59 |
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| [url=mailto:....@efenjee....'kay]....@efenjee....'kay[/url]............
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The Watcher
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 19:02 |
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Topic
Because they are mostly dismissive of the Africans from outside America. Either they use American actors with terrible accents instead of locals when filming on location of they are plain insulting towards us.
Taye Diggs in "how stella got her groove back" springs to mind as one of the most unintentionally funny roles ever played LOL... as for cool runnings....
Look how AAs portray Africans for example, before it was clowning and joking about the accents which I suppose is innocent local playing about, like in Next Friday with the dude returning the broken CD... I actually found that funny. But it seems now as if every African on american TV is a warlord or from some war torn place, or into witching people or something mystical strange and primitive in some way. Obviously you wont get people besides yourselves watching that. Also when showing UK blacks... AAs might think it funny and as a kid I laughed but if AAs see me as Geoffery in Fresh Prince and talking all la di da then obviously I cant be watching such nonsense.
When the good black films come out of America then you will find a good audience. When Spike Lee was making good movies before, everyone had to watch them. I think Sarafina was a american produced and moneyed film that most people I know enjoyed and found important. Things of that nature will do well. Quality gets attention...
HOWEVER
The film and TV world is like the music world. They make stuff for the highest audience and where the money is (hard fact people). The truth is we would rather watch a million and one cosby clones like "wife and kids" or any new show desperate to be the new Moesha instead of supporting the producers who do try to be different. Nativetongue has been showing some links to good stuff recently and gave me some ideas, anyone else had a look?
We can only answer the movie makers with our wallets. The thing is WE pay to see Soul food and stupidness instead of Rosewood or something.
light skinned/mixed race.
To call a mixed race person black is to deny them half their heritage and is plain sillyness. Would you call Alicia keys a mixed woman raised and managed by her white mum a BLACK person?? lets not be silly... SHE herself is not so dumb and calls herself biracial. If you were Nigerian and had a child with a Ghana woman and the child called itself only Ghaian and took in none of your Nigerian customs or culture or did not see itself as Nigerian in any way that is a slap in that face for you IMO. Same way if I had a child with a white woman (no dont worry its not happening LOL) and this child called itself white??? Well what does that make me then? Invisible?
The one drop rule uses the principle that being black is a stain on the PURE white race... BOLLOCKs to that thinking. Mixed or biracial people are just that... and black is black. Very different concepts.
I formally CLOSE that discussion here and now...
MOVIES is the topic of THIS thread
Last edited on Tuesday May 31st, 2005 19:06 by The Watcher
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Baron_Samedi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 19:03 |
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I'm bored!
Efenjee wrote:
"If Baron had let the remark pass it wouldn't have been a big deal as Dimoke just used that example to illustrate the difference between UK and USA black people. When Baron followed it up by telling Niani that being a 'redbone' would mean she will experience problems with someone like Dimoke and then went on to refer to Thandie Newton (an actress I like) as being a lightskinned black woman, I felt it was necessary (as Dimoke is not here!) to correct him, he understands the difference now I think.
"
Sorry, can't let such a digression and a smear against my kind go without notice. You say difference and I say smear! I'm not aware of the times when she/he will be back on but I'm certain he/she will reply, is capable of a worthy reply and can if he/she wishes to explain the pattern of smears as evidenced by certain posts. Again, I appreciate your explanation but I was scratching beneath the surface. BTW I love Thandie Newton, that Dame is Hotter than Hot and an excellent actress!
I look forward to a reply from Dimoke!
Have a nice Day
@ Topic:
I would be interested in seeing movies that express more then the usual BA centered themes and things. Is there an equivalent in terms of film makers in the UK, Africa and the Caribbean? Can anyone suggest some film titles?
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Baron_Samedi
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Posted: Tuesday May 31st, 2005 19:12 |
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