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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 19:40 |
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Undoubtedly one of the most important categories in black music history. However how did it all start? Who were the pioneer producers, the first dJs and MCs?.
There is an inescapable link between Jamaican reggae and US Soul. Since the late 1950s, which saw ska born out of American R&B, the Jamaican reggae fraternity has always had a strong affiliation towards US soul, and later on, Funk. What other links are there with the US scene and reggae music.? Who influenced who?
Today reggae music has developed into dancehall, the bashment. Wheres the future lie and who are todays best producers and MCs?.
Who are the best sound systems around today. In the 70s it was Coxsone Downbeat, 80,s Saxon Studio, who run the 90s and runs tings today?
Its not without its controversy too as Gay activists threaten the careers of reggae music's brightest stars. Bennie Man, Bounty Killer and Elephant man all have had their names presented to the police in a dossier which suggests the 3 should be prosecuted for inciting hatred against gays. Will they succeed in destroying reggae music?
Whatever its been an integral part of our modern day history.
Here are 20 important artists in reggae music. There has been many more but these are in my past and present hall of fame
1, Sir Clement"Coxsone Dodd
2, Bob Marley
3, Dennis Brown
4, Saxon Studio
5, Lee Scratch Perry
6, Gregory Issacs
7, Yellowman
8, Ekka -Mouse
9, Aswad
10, Scientist
11, Ken boothe
12, King Stitt
13, Burning Spear
14, Frankie Paul
15, Freddie Mcgregor
16, Beenie Man
17, Buju Banton
18, Sizzler
19, Capelton
20, Elephant Man
My specialty is the sound system Saxon Studio who in the eighties destroyed every sound in sight with their Dream Team MCs and hardcore Dub Plates. To any budding MC i urge you to study this sound and listen to their MCs, as they were really something special. They are a British sound and the dream team of Daddy Sandy, Daddy Rusty, Daddy Colonel, Papa Levi and Tipper Ire were just f........g unbelievable. They revolutionised 'Mic Chanting' at the time with their fast styles and lyrics which could 'full up a ridim' which no-one else was doing at the time.
Take a listen here: http://www.musicoutfitter.com/store/item/601811680124/saxonstudiointernationalcoughingupfire.html
Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 00:09 by Le Moor
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The Watcher
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 19:43 |
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Trevor Sax has a record shop near Clapton Pond in East London.
I used to shop there back when I was a DJ. Good stuff
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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 19:50 |
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| I spoke to Trevor Sax on the phone yesterday. Ive been trying to get hold of eighties saxon sound tapes on CD for ages and got his number from a website. Pure incidental but he's in the process of putting 7000 tapes onto CD as we speak and they're ready for sale in April. I never been fanatical about anything except Saxon Studio in the eighties. Even if i gotta re-mortgage im buying all 7000 cds (slight exageration but u know i what mean) Last edited on Thursday March 3rd, 2005 21:06 by Le Moor
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 21:27 |
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@Le Moor
Yes Saxon was the best. All those old dance on CD's. My god its a dream come true.
I remember when Smiley Culture and Asha Senetor/ Maxi Priest/ barrington Levi were on Saxon. You know the olny surviving Saxon tape I got is when they played in jamaica with Metromedia. Do you remember the clash they had with GHETTONE. Levi versus lesley lyrics. bad bwoy clash. Pure lyrics.
lets not forget there was Volcano (stonebridge)..Viking (peckham) Unity (heavy set).. Coxsone..Young Lion..
English dancehall actually led the way in terms of lyrics in the early 80s.. when I listen to mi god mi king (levi) the lyrics are still tight..
Now if we talk about the yard sounds we had:
King jammys..Metromedia..Stereo One..Kilamanjaro..Downbeat (New York based).. Stereograph..Jack Ruby.. dj's like Lecturer..Proffessor Nuts..Peter metro.. Buro Banton..Major Mackerel.. Tiger..Michagan & Smiley.. Captain Sinbad..
artists like Pinchers..Courtney Melody..Half Pint..Admiral Tibet..LOittle John..jeez the list is endless..
tell me bro have you ever seen a poster with the pictures of a 100 Dj's on it. saw it in Dub Vendor a long time ago but never been able to trace it. There is a similar one with all the singing artists..
Boy those were the days. Saxon on Cd. There is a God after all..
GOOD THREAD
Last edited on Thursday March 3rd, 2005 21:35 by Bredder Tukoma
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The Watcher
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 21:36 |
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@ Mansamusa
Smiley Culture LOL
My friends old man still plays that "police officer dont gimme producer" tune when he is driving...
aint never had so much joke as "cockney translation" in years. Yeah man some good lyrics.
Tiger? You mean Tiger was from ere? And with Saxon? tiger was baaaad!
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 22:11 |
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@DM
Nah Tiger was from yard. he was still djing up to the early 90s but had a bad motorcycle accident and havent heard from him since.
My favourite Dj of all time has to be Papa San. "Cricket ina mi bed" ....nah run no battery "..mi rat a give me problem and mi cat cant solve dem".. wicked lyrics.. boy Im laughing now at the sheer quality and intellect those brothers had.
you see you younger bros may not remeber but there was a time when Dj/ yard and English used to chat lyrics that had social commentry. Do you know how many people in history I learned about from old time DJ...plenty..
Man you used to go out and hear BRAND NEW TUNES. A wicked new singer. Dub Plates that were unique. The selector would play the singing tune and then the Dj would ride the "Part Two" =instrumental..Before the tunes used to come out on street.. eg. police officer.. they done got rinsed in dance months before it even enter the reggae charts..
then every sound had an operator. Who would mix down the riddim.. (chop up the riddim into a drum beat using the volume control) for the Dj to ride and sit down on it like a lizard on a limb. Like tire pon rim. LOL...my favourite was Musclehead and Stevie culture from Coxsone..
Must be getting old but when in the early 90s sounds started moving towards just playing music.. indeed before the sound was known for its team of singers and Dj's.. now the selectors star the show. They talk too much for my liking too..
I could type for hours about old dances.. most of which I knew from sound tapes which were precious items in those days.. alot of trading went on at school..let alone various people who were sound members who could give you a tape to rub..
Anyway reggae music is not just dancehall so Ill leave it there..
@Le Moor
Whre can I get those Cd's bro. Give me a link..
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The Watcher
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 22:20 |
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Mansamusa
Same Papa San from Lawd mi cant tek it no more? That tune where he does nothing but sob and cry?? LOL
Believe me, we had the tape trading thing in my time too, but yes everyone says it was better in the early 80s (not my time).
In my sound it was nothing like in the 80s, we had just myself and two other DJs one or two MCs (though this increased dramatically with time) and no singers at all. But then we were youths not big men still
Them days done now though. Its CD mixing in a dance now....
Anyhoo... Ill be looking out for those CDs too
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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 22:21 |
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Mansamusa Bwouuuuuuuuuuuuy do i remember do i remember. Man that tape was the badest MC clash in the history of reggae music. Les lyrics vs Levi and the loser could never play inna sout London again. LOLOLOL. It just so happens that that was the Tape i asked Trevor Sax about. Man that was a CLASH. Remember this lyric
Lesley and Ceasar turn lover,
Lesley and Caesar Turn lover,
Fight bruk when dirty Dessie discover,
that Lesley and Ceasar turn Lover.
Remember that. That was the lyric that saved Levi and won him the cup cos Les Lyrics run him good that night. Even though usually Levi was by far the superior artist.
Yeah i recognise most of the names you dropped. Saxon cut some serious dubs with some of those artists.
Question for u ,out of the 5 Mcs ive mentioned above who do reckon was the best.?
Last edited on Thursday June 9th, 2005 18:30 by Le Moor
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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 22:28 |
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Sorry Mansamusa just seen your request for link. Trevor Sax's number is at the bottom of page.
http://www.daintycrew.com/saxon.htm
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Mafdet
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 22:44 |
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@All
My brother would sat for hours with you guys talking about this topic infact I am surprised Fredblack and Kunjufu hasn't found this thread....but one thing is for sure the majority of what they are dissing out today under the banner of reggae and dancehall music is not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence of those tunes of the 70's and 80's.
@Le Moor
Thanks for that link I have to get me some of those cd when they come out.
Dancing for the Lord by Bernard Stanley Hoyes
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:04 |
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@DM
yes the same Papa San. Bro some Dj's werent made for records and he was one of them. But if you listen any old Creation sound dance you will get lyrics until your eye water. Pure quality.
What you had a sound too.. bro I still got lyrics in my head and written down I was chatting when I was a youth..me and my cousin still improvise line for line for joke as competition..
Early 80s was a golden era in dancehall though..the English Dj's and sounds where leading the way..Very few sopunds could go to jamaica and play with big sounds.. probably Saxon and Coxsone maybe the only ones..
Le Moor
Thank you for the link brother.
Now back to your question..
16, Beenie Man
17, Buju Banton
18, Sizzler
19, Capelton
20, Elephant Man
Well Sizzler for me has flopped himself for the spate of slackness and change of style he went through.. even though capleton (woman mi lotion mi no lotion man)before he turn Ras was much more raw.. Elephant man is a gimmick DJ to me really.
So Id have to go for Buju on consistency.. although Beenie man / I thought he was rubbish when he first buss/ has a wide range of styles.. full of style..
Do I remeber that lyric..maaan.. didnt Levi talk about how Lesley had to "Stop that train/ I wanna get on".. for his lover Ceasar..LOL.. youre right it was a mismatch but lesley stood his ground..
Peter King the first to come with the fast style.. so much clashes .. Saxon versus VRocket in Nottingham..
Saxon versus Coxsone..the triology.. Saxon versus Java..
Question for you seeing as you are a Saxonite.
What old videogame favourite was Saxon's signature sound effect?
Peace
Last edited on Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:14 by Bredder Tukoma
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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:27 |
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Mansamusa just reading your ealier post and laughing.
You forget "him a sit down pon it like a jockey pon him horse" --LOL.
No you got me wrong, I meant who was the best Saxon Mc. I think it was a toss between Levi and Tipper. Levi was probably the best burial artist but Tipper was the expert bubbler. Both were technically advanced and gifted.
Not sure about the Video game question but i'd hazard a guess at Space Invaders. I know the noises you mean though.
Madfet so true about some of the crap which is out today, just doesnt compare. Me, i still love my old school reggae and that doesnt look like its going to change any time soon.
Incidentally if your in the UK and your trying to buy the saxon CD -coughing up fire ( link in the subject space of this thread ) you'll have to go direct to greensleeves website to purchase it. Heres the link:http://web13430.vs.netbenefit.co.uk/acatalog/Compact_Discs_S_T.html
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:53 |
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Le Moor
Sorry misunderstood you. Best saxon Mc. Levi without a doubt. Tipper was bad still. Daddy Colonel improved a heck of alot as time went by..saw him at Victoria Park in Hackney late 80s and couldnt believe it was the same MC.
Read that link. Very informative. Imagine one of the saxon crew them sons is now playing part of the sound to play house and garage. Thats like using a Rolls Royce to do cabbing. LOL..
But number two/ although not there long/ was Asher Senetor for me. My friend went a Saxon dance in Brixton last year and said he still has kept up with the times..
Space invaders/ your entirely correct.
Ive been on kazaar downloading some old reggae tunes over the past months.. just got Ballistic affair ( Leroy Smart) yesterday. Its like Christmas every day.
@mafdet
to be fair there seems to be a revival of good culture reggae singers and Dj's coming through. jah cure..etc.. came back with a very nice CD from JA last year which has some very nice culture tune on..who is it that sings.. "Leave the trees and let them be.. cant you see your boring a hole ina de ozone layer"
but the buzz of hearing new tune in a dance has gone.. the polictical/ topical & social commentry has also disapperaed.. when there was the miners strike.. nuff MC had a view..Terry Waite went missing.. someone have something to say..
Now all those so called garage MC's are doing is rhyming for rhyming sake.. or following our American friends in false gangster talk...
Quite sad really. man you know time has passed when the "youth of today" music is alot of rubbish. same thing my old man used to say when I was playing sound tape..LOL..
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Femergy
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 00:17 |
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Well now. I just took a trip down memory lane with this thread!!
I remember why I used to like Nottinghill Carnival, 'cause Saxon used to be playing down there!! Bit of a Unity girl back then myself (my cousin was their MC) with a little bit of Heavyweight thrown in for good measure!
What about Jah Shaka? Now if he laid down some CDs that would be a collection worth waiting for.
Can't really take away from what's been said but I'd like to add
- charlie chaplin/cocoa tea
- Garnet Silk
- Michael Prophet
- Black Uhuru
But to truth be known, my favourite was and still is Burning Spear. Can't play any of their music and expect to get a conversation out of me at the same time.
@ mansamusa
You said: "but the buzz of hearing new tune in a dance has gone.. the polictical/ topical & social commentry has also disapperaed.. ."
Couldn't agree with you more. But the other thing about the artists from the past is that their songs also had spirtual and uplifting content unashamedly and openly. That value has also been eroded.
Fem'
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Fredblack
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 00:20 |
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Le Moor. Bredrin you have culture and nuff too. Yes lawd Reggae music the best music in the world
Listern I have Saxton tapes for fun. Or my brother has. In my madness to rush for tapes I realised I tape some speech on some of my music. But we have plenty.
Eh easy of Trevor...Bredrin from longest time...Part of the true reggae fraternity.
But how come I don't see no Brigader Jerry in that list bro. I see Mansa throw in Pappa San..
Mansa...you forget sounds like Eunice one of the baddest ever who tear out Coxsone heart night after night. Fatman use to go JA often and play dance...
FB
Fem...I hope you are talking about the original Black Uhura with the legendary Michael Rose when they were produced by Prince Jammies. Some of the best music ever produced ever. Also my man Johnny Clarke in his youth untouchable.
Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 00:25 by Fredblack
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Femergy
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 00:50 |
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Fredblack wrote:
Fem...I hope you are talking about the original Black Uhura with the legendary Michael Rose when they were produced by Prince Jammies. Some of the best music ever produced ever. Also my man Johnny Clarke in his youth untouchable.
Well now you tempting me ... what about U-Roy and I-Roy? And in terms of Johnny Clarke, still a great fan and still got the original vinyles - part of the family treasures!
Now, I'll let you into a secret, I used to sing jamming sessions with the Instigators when Fatman was 'managing' them. Cut a Fatman dub-plate with Mr Minnott himself on the A side!! I was Mafia's (as in Mafia and Fluxi) first production. I've written a number of songs over Studio 1 tracks for them!! Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 00:53 by Femergy
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 00:52 |
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Fred
Boy..The Brigadier Gerry.. foundation MC.. and General Trees (always seemed to come off the worst in a clash)/ Sassafrass/ Dillenger..EARLY B (RIP) Tapa Zukie../Kojak..Toyan. Loui Lenke.. Sister Nancy...Johnny Ringo..the three demus
Shaka..Junior..(Nicodemus RIP)..as I stop more come to mind..
What you tape speech over your Saxon sound tape.. sacrilage man..nothing less..who want dem caan get and who have dem no want.. ..
Hmm Black Uhuru.. i start think of Ijaman (sp)..Burning Spear is dangerous....Dennis Brown.RIP..Let alone Studio One..
A truly wide music range in one music form. Reggae music run the world...
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Fredblack
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 01:18 |
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@Femergy...oh mi lord...You are a sister of deepest hidden talents and a felllow spirit What....You are lucky some dog stole my original soundsystem music trunk which my mother gave me because I would draw out your tune and listen right now.
Listen sis. The first time I go blues dance must have been 15 with my big cousin for a sneak preview I heard I Roy, plus young Dennis Emanuel Brown.
Fem I should have known you and ask for a dance with my fast self...But if you respect reggae music and involved in it still then friends for life. I remember going studio the first time to prepare for a sound clash with the Mighty Sledgehammer who were a bad youth sound who could hold ground with big man sound. Spent hours producing slates, to kill them dead with in Swiss Cottage and one of the mixes me and my brerdin had in our mind and we still tight today and after nuff arguments we got our way.
When we dropped that on Sledgie dance gone wild, man get mad. Do you know the leader of the sound never spoke to me for about 15 years and now he see me we will respectfullly hail each other. Boy man take music seriously. But we burnt him that night.
Well if you cut dub for Fatman I have heard it and know it and definitely the Instigator and most of Bogga Minnot's music.
Do you remember that tune called Baby My Love by the investigators which had the best DJ and I am prepared for argument with Mansa ever JA Stitch toasting[proper technical description] on it. Stitchy got shot in the mouth which is why he had that kinda sound.
But we will all agree there will only be one Mighty Diamonds for me the surpreme second to none reggae artists. The verstality and skills simply cannot be compared. What say you root sister?
Let me test people's reggae Knowlege...Who was Earl Zero and his first major hit. A dub classic-Mansa you too...
Remember the first time I saw Blacka Dread operator for Sir Coxone. Could miss it really the place was so small and us youth had to be next to the great man and watch him do his stuff.
But there is only one Jah Shaka who as far as I personally concerned is the king of dub and roots music.
Well I never to think I raved to your tune. But never like Fatman boys love too much trouble when a man come to dance to appreciate art and the best music in the world. Can't even see woman when sweet reggae is playing.
Few exceptions as ever in most things in life.
Peace.
FB
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Fredblack
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 01:28 |
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@Mansa. I can see you are biased and prejudiced. How can you come and tell me in your asessment that Trees and Briggy get mashed by them man. They are good no doubt and can rock and nice dance.
But you cannot put Ringo in the same class as Briggie. Ringo run out of lyrics and lack range and too much on the humour tip. Sassafras gave them a good run true dat.
But only Briggie can run dance by himself. I have heard Briggie chat all nigh literally without breathing and stopping only to light up his ting and drink a juice. Not only that I think Briiggie is more a testment and a walking representative of all that went before him.
The man can toast like them old boys in the early days of ska with them "good gosh", or "woa baby" kind a style and can run almost any style that came after. You can see I Roy there ,Big Youth and all the greats in his moves and his own personality.
Nah man bias..Call in the referee because Mansa done take money to cast his vote long time....
Hey I tell you the best DJ I have ever seen on an ongoing basis and any Shaka disciple will tell you. Ranking Dread absolutely unbelievable. But he could not do it on vynll only live. The man could and did give literally speeches and talk for 10 plus minutes striaght seriously about black people and then bust into another ting and to that all night.
Man what a music.
Sister Nancy one of the true female greats. Chaka Demus is a class act and hold court in a dance like a King. Plus I love his character and how he profilles. Definitely loves his art.
FB
Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 01:38 by Fredblack
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Femergy
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 01:29 |
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Fredblack wrote:
@Femergy...oh mi lord...You are a sister of deepest hidden talents and a felllow spirit What....You are lucky some dog stole my original soundsystem music trunk which my mother gave me because I would draw out your tune and listen right now.
Listen sis. The first time I go blues dance must have been 15 with my big cousin for a sneak preview I heard I Roy, plus young Dennis Emanuel Brown.
Fem I should have known you and ask for a dance with my fast self...But if you respect reggae music and involved in it still then friends for life. I remember going studio the first time to prepare for a sound clash with the Mighty Sledgehammer who were a bad youth sound who could hold ground with big man sound. Spent hours producing slates, to kill them dead with in Swiss Cottage and one of the mixes me and my brerdin had in our mind and we still tight today and after nuff arguments we got our way.
When we dropped that on Sledgie dance gone wild, man get mad. Do you know the leader of the sound never spoke to me for about 15 years and now he see me we will respectfullly hail each other. Boy man take music seriously. But we burnt him that night.
Well if you cut dub for Fatman I have heard it and know it and definitely the Instigator and most of Bogga Minnot's music.
Do you remember that tune called Baby My Love by the investigators which had the best DJ and I am prepared for argument with Mansa ever JA Stitch toasting[proper technical description] on it. Stitchy got shot in the mouth which is why he had that kinda sound.
But we will all agree there will only be one Mighty Diamonds for me the surpreme second to none reggae artists. The verstality and skills simply cannot be compared. What say you root sister?
Let me test people's reggae Knowlege...Who was Earl Zero and his first major hit. A dub classic-Mansa you too...
Remember the first time I saw Blacka Dread operator for Sir Coxone. Could miss it really the place was so small and us youth had to be next to the great man and watch him do his stuff.
But there is only one Jah Shaka who as far as I personally concerned is the king of dub and roots music.
Well I never to think I raved to your tune. But never like Fatman boys love too much trouble when a man come to dance to appreciate art and the best music in the world. Can't even see woman when sweet reggae is playing.
Few exceptions as ever in most things in life.
Peace.
FB
Yes FB, what can I say! Sound systems was kinda the rave to be at them days. Never went to much clubs, usually found me in one of them 'halls' hired for the night with speaker boxes balanced right up to the ceiling per sound system in the room the size of my bathroom! When I first started going to them clashes the vibration used to make me feel sick it was so powerful. You don't get that kind of sound now - too teknikal!!
I remember when I first started 'raving' and trust me FB if you were wearing trainers, I wouldn't have counted you as a man of calibre LOL and if you did stink well .............. and trust me there use to much man with curly perm in the 80's dripping all over my furs!
Well anyway, if you're ever in London town, go to the OBar in Camden town on a Saturday night and you can hear all them tunes spinning. There's not really that many reggae clubs now that everything got mixed up. But do you remember back in the day you were either strictly reggae or soul and you'd never rave at both ... how funny that all seems now but it was integral to the identity ... wearing Farah trousers, M&S tie blouse and trench coat.
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Fredblack
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 02:00 |
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@Fem FB wear trainers to a dance? Rentaman crowd? No sah..not this brother come dressed to impress. Talk about Farrah. Girl I had two wicked and diffrent Farrah sarafir suits oh my god...Fred you were wicked, even if I say so myself . But my god I remember having a tight shoe attack in hot and packed dance . Probably worse than tootache and worse still not wanting to leave the dance as the music to sweet and have to go lightly on the affected foot.
Yep reggae man and Soud heads..natural division. Caribbeans v the rest of them whatever they were. Even though I was partial to some soul and even more a couple of them soul girls too. But my true home is as Bunny Wailer say" Reggae music music of the Kings..in this ya dance hall music"
But your not joking when I think of some of the holes we use to squeeze into to listen to muisc. Boy have to laugh. Would never of think of doing that now.
But you not wrong. Man it took me a while to handle serious base. I remember one night drinking some juice and the base was so heavy the drink did not want to go down my stomach. Like bass was licking it so hard the poor liquid frighten to move.
Will keep that club in mind because my bredrins and same tight crew I use to be in sound system in always threatening to drag me out to listen to some proper intellligent and uplifiting music. I will return the favour next time you are in the Eastern Caribbean I will tell you all the proper music joints are and avoid all those fake and weird disco kind of clubs they have where everybody stands watching each other...YUK..
FB
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 07:11 |
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