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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 18:40 |
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Undoubtedly one of the most important categories in black music history. However how did it all start? Who were the pioneer producers, the first dJs and MCs?.
There is an inescapable link between Jamaican reggae and US Soul. Since the late 1950s, which saw ska born out of American R&B, the Jamaican reggae fraternity has always had a strong affiliation towards US soul, and later on, Funk. What other links are there with the US scene and reggae music.? Who influenced who?
Today reggae music has developed into dancehall, the bashment. Wheres the future lie and who are todays best producers and MCs?.
Who are the best sound systems around today. In the 70s it was Coxsone Downbeat, 80,s Saxon Studio, who run the 90s and runs tings today?
Its not without its controversy too as Gay activists threaten the careers of reggae music's brightest stars. Bennie Man, Bounty Killer and Elephant man all have had their names presented to the police in a dossier which suggests the 3 should be prosecuted for inciting hatred against gays. Will they succeed in destroying reggae music?
Whatever its been an integral part of our modern day history.
Here are 20 important artists in reggae music. There has been many more but these are in my past and present hall of fame
1, Sir Clement"Coxsone Dodd
2, Bob Marley
3, Dennis Brown
4, Saxon Studio
5, Lee Scratch Perry
6, Gregory Issacs
7, Yellowman
8, Ekka -Mouse
9, Aswad
10, Scientist
11, Ken boothe
12, King Stitt
13, Burning Spear
14, Frankie Paul
15, Freddie Mcgregor
16, Beenie Man
17, Buju Banton
18, Sizzler
19, Capelton
20, Elephant Man
My specialty is the sound system Saxon Studio who in the eighties destroyed every sound in sight with their Dream Team MCs and hardcore Dub Plates. To any budding MC i urge you to study this sound and listen to their MCs, as they were really something special. They are a British sound and the dream team of Daddy Sandy, Daddy Rusty, Daddy Colonel, Papa Levi and Tipper Ire were just f........g unbelievable. They revolutionised 'Mic Chanting' at the time with their fast styles and lyrics which could 'full up a ridim' which no-one else was doing at the time.
Take a listen here: http://www.musicoutfitter.com/store/item/601811680124/saxonstudiointernationalcoughingupfire.html
Last edited on Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:09 by Le Moor
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The Watcher
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 18:43 |
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Trevor Sax has a record shop near Clapton Pond in East London.
I used to shop there back when I was a DJ. Good stuff
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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 18:50 |
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| I spoke to Trevor Sax on the phone yesterday. Ive been trying to get hold of eighties saxon sound tapes on CD for ages and got his number from a website. Pure incidental but he's in the process of putting 7000 tapes onto CD as we speak and they're ready for sale in April. I never been fanatical about anything except Saxon Studio in the eighties. Even if i gotta re-mortgage im buying all 7000 cds (slight exageration but u know i what mean) Last edited on Thursday March 3rd, 2005 20:06 by Le Moor
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 20:27 |
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@Le Moor
Yes Saxon was the best. All those old dance on CD's. My god its a dream come true.
I remember when Smiley Culture and Asha Senetor/ Maxi Priest/ barrington Levi were on Saxon. You know the olny surviving Saxon tape I got is when they played in jamaica with Metromedia. Do you remember the clash they had with GHETTONE. Levi versus lesley lyrics. bad bwoy clash. Pure lyrics.
lets not forget there was Volcano (stonebridge)..Viking (peckham) Unity (heavy set).. Coxsone..Young Lion..
English dancehall actually led the way in terms of lyrics in the early 80s.. when I listen to mi god mi king (levi) the lyrics are still tight..
Now if we talk about the yard sounds we had:
King jammys..Metromedia..Stereo One..Kilamanjaro..Downbeat (New York based).. Stereograph..Jack Ruby.. dj's like Lecturer..Proffessor Nuts..Peter metro.. Buro Banton..Major Mackerel.. Tiger..Michagan & Smiley.. Captain Sinbad..
artists like Pinchers..Courtney Melody..Half Pint..Admiral Tibet..LOittle John..jeez the list is endless..
tell me bro have you ever seen a poster with the pictures of a 100 Dj's on it. saw it in Dub Vendor a long time ago but never been able to trace it. There is a similar one with all the singing artists..
Boy those were the days. Saxon on Cd. There is a God after all..
GOOD THREAD
Last edited on Thursday March 3rd, 2005 20:35 by Bredder Tukoma
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The Watcher
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 20:36 |
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@ Mansamusa
Smiley Culture LOL
My friends old man still plays that "police officer dont gimme producer" tune when he is driving...
aint never had so much joke as "cockney translation" in years. Yeah man some good lyrics.
Tiger? You mean Tiger was from ere? And with Saxon? tiger was baaaad!
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 21:11 |
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@DM
Nah Tiger was from yard. he was still djing up to the early 90s but had a bad motorcycle accident and havent heard from him since.
My favourite Dj of all time has to be Papa San. "Cricket ina mi bed" ....nah run no battery "..mi rat a give me problem and mi cat cant solve dem".. wicked lyrics.. boy Im laughing now at the sheer quality and intellect those brothers had.
you see you younger bros may not remeber but there was a time when Dj/ yard and English used to chat lyrics that had social commentry. Do you know how many people in history I learned about from old time DJ...plenty..
Man you used to go out and hear BRAND NEW TUNES. A wicked new singer. Dub Plates that were unique. The selector would play the singing tune and then the Dj would ride the "Part Two" =instrumental..Before the tunes used to come out on street.. eg. police officer.. they done got rinsed in dance months before it even enter the reggae charts..
then every sound had an operator. Who would mix down the riddim.. (chop up the riddim into a drum beat using the volume control) for the Dj to ride and sit down on it like a lizard on a limb. Like tire pon rim. LOL...my favourite was Musclehead and Stevie culture from Coxsone..
Must be getting old but when in the early 90s sounds started moving towards just playing music.. indeed before the sound was known for its team of singers and Dj's.. now the selectors star the show. They talk too much for my liking too..
I could type for hours about old dances.. most of which I knew from sound tapes which were precious items in those days.. alot of trading went on at school..let alone various people who were sound members who could give you a tape to rub..
Anyway reggae music is not just dancehall so Ill leave it there..
@Le Moor
Whre can I get those Cd's bro. Give me a link..
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The Watcher
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 21:20 |
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Mansamusa
Same Papa San from Lawd mi cant tek it no more? That tune where he does nothing but sob and cry?? LOL
Believe me, we had the tape trading thing in my time too, but yes everyone says it was better in the early 80s (not my time).
In my sound it was nothing like in the 80s, we had just myself and two other DJs one or two MCs (though this increased dramatically with time) and no singers at all. But then we were youths not big men still
Them days done now though. Its CD mixing in a dance now....
Anyhoo... Ill be looking out for those CDs too
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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 21:21 |
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Mansamusa Bwouuuuuuuuuuuuy do i remember do i remember. Man that tape was the badest MC clash in the history of reggae music. Les lyrics vs Levi and the loser could never play inna sout London again. LOLOLOL. It just so happens that that was the Tape i asked Trevor Sax about. Man that was a CLASH. Remember this lyric
Lesley and Ceasar turn lover,
Lesley and Caesar Turn lover,
Fight bruk when dirty Dessie discover,
that Lesley and Ceasar turn Lover.
Remember that. That was the lyric that saved Levi and won him the cup cos Les Lyrics run him good that night. Even though usually Levi was by far the superior artist.
Yeah i recognise most of the names you dropped. Saxon cut some serious dubs with some of those artists.
Question for u ,out of the 5 Mcs ive mentioned above who do reckon was the best.?
Last edited on Thursday June 9th, 2005 17:30 by Le Moor
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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 21:28 |
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Sorry Mansamusa just seen your request for link. Trevor Sax's number is at the bottom of page.
http://www.daintycrew.com/saxon.htm
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Mafdet
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 21:44 |
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@All
My brother would sat for hours with you guys talking about this topic infact I am surprised Fredblack and Kunjufu hasn't found this thread....but one thing is for sure the majority of what they are dissing out today under the banner of reggae and dancehall music is not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence of those tunes of the 70's and 80's.
@Le Moor
Thanks for that link I have to get me some of those cd when they come out.
Dancing for the Lord by Bernard Stanley Hoyes
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 22:04 |
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@DM
yes the same Papa San. Bro some Dj's werent made for records and he was one of them. But if you listen any old Creation sound dance you will get lyrics until your eye water. Pure quality.
What you had a sound too.. bro I still got lyrics in my head and written down I was chatting when I was a youth..me and my cousin still improvise line for line for joke as competition..
Early 80s was a golden era in dancehall though..the English Dj's and sounds where leading the way..Very few sopunds could go to jamaica and play with big sounds.. probably Saxon and Coxsone maybe the only ones..
Le Moor
Thank you for the link brother.
Now back to your question..
16, Beenie Man
17, Buju Banton
18, Sizzler
19, Capelton
20, Elephant Man
Well Sizzler for me has flopped himself for the spate of slackness and change of style he went through.. even though capleton (woman mi lotion mi no lotion man)before he turn Ras was much more raw.. Elephant man is a gimmick DJ to me really.
So Id have to go for Buju on consistency.. although Beenie man / I thought he was rubbish when he first buss/ has a wide range of styles.. full of style..
Do I remeber that lyric..maaan.. didnt Levi talk about how Lesley had to "Stop that train/ I wanna get on".. for his lover Ceasar..LOL.. youre right it was a mismatch but lesley stood his ground..
Peter King the first to come with the fast style.. so much clashes .. Saxon versus VRocket in Nottingham..
Saxon versus Coxsone..the triology.. Saxon versus Java..
Question for you seeing as you are a Saxonite.
What old videogame favourite was Saxon's signature sound effect?
Peace
Last edited on Thursday March 3rd, 2005 22:14 by Bredder Tukoma
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Le Moor
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 22:27 |
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Mansamusa just reading your ealier post and laughing.
You forget "him a sit down pon it like a jockey pon him horse" --LOL.
No you got me wrong, I meant who was the best Saxon Mc. I think it was a toss between Levi and Tipper. Levi was probably the best burial artist but Tipper was the expert bubbler. Both were technically advanced and gifted.
Not sure about the Video game question but i'd hazard a guess at Space Invaders. I know the noises you mean though.
Madfet so true about some of the crap which is out today, just doesnt compare. Me, i still love my old school reggae and that doesnt look like its going to change any time soon.
Incidentally if your in the UK and your trying to buy the saxon CD -coughing up fire ( link in the subject space of this thread ) you'll have to go direct to greensleeves website to purchase it. Heres the link:http://web13430.vs.netbenefit.co.uk/acatalog/Compact_Discs_S_T.html
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 22:53 |
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Le Moor
Sorry misunderstood you. Best saxon Mc. Levi without a doubt. Tipper was bad still. Daddy Colonel improved a heck of alot as time went by..saw him at Victoria Park in Hackney late 80s and couldnt believe it was the same MC.
Read that link. Very informative. Imagine one of the saxon crew them sons is now playing part of the sound to play house and garage. Thats like using a Rolls Royce to do cabbing. LOL..
But number two/ although not there long/ was Asher Senetor for me. My friend went a Saxon dance in Brixton last year and said he still has kept up with the times..
Space invaders/ your entirely correct.
Ive been on kazaar downloading some old reggae tunes over the past months.. just got Ballistic affair ( Leroy Smart) yesterday. Its like Christmas every day.
@mafdet
to be fair there seems to be a revival of good culture reggae singers and Dj's coming through. jah cure..etc.. came back with a very nice CD from JA last year which has some very nice culture tune on..who is it that sings.. "Leave the trees and let them be.. cant you see your boring a hole ina de ozone layer"
but the buzz of hearing new tune in a dance has gone.. the polictical/ topical & social commentry has also disapperaed.. when there was the miners strike.. nuff MC had a view..Terry Waite went missing.. someone have something to say..
Now all those so called garage MC's are doing is rhyming for rhyming sake.. or following our American friends in false gangster talk...
Quite sad really. man you know time has passed when the "youth of today" music is alot of rubbish. same thing my old man used to say when I was playing sound tape..LOL..
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Femergy
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:17 |
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Well now. I just took a trip down memory lane with this thread!!
I remember why I used to like Nottinghill Carnival, 'cause Saxon used to be playing down there!! Bit of a Unity girl back then myself (my cousin was their MC) with a little bit of Heavyweight thrown in for good measure!
What about Jah Shaka? Now if he laid down some CDs that would be a collection worth waiting for.
Can't really take away from what's been said but I'd like to add
- charlie chaplin/cocoa tea
- Garnet Silk
- Michael Prophet
- Black Uhuru
But to truth be known, my favourite was and still is Burning Spear. Can't play any of their music and expect to get a conversation out of me at the same time.
@ mansamusa
You said: "but the buzz of hearing new tune in a dance has gone.. the polictical/ topical & social commentry has also disapperaed.. ."
Couldn't agree with you more. But the other thing about the artists from the past is that their songs also had spirtual and uplifting content unashamedly and openly. That value has also been eroded.
Fem'
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Fredblack
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:20 |
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Le Moor. Bredrin you have culture and nuff too. Yes lawd Reggae music the best music in the world
Listern I have Saxton tapes for fun. Or my brother has. In my madness to rush for tapes I realised I tape some speech on some of my music. But we have plenty.
Eh easy of Trevor...Bredrin from longest time...Part of the true reggae fraternity.
But how come I don't see no Brigader Jerry in that list bro. I see Mansa throw in Pappa San..
Mansa...you forget sounds like Eunice one of the baddest ever who tear out Coxsone heart night after night. Fatman use to go JA often and play dance...
FB
Fem...I hope you are talking about the original Black Uhura with the legendary Michael Rose when they were produced by Prince Jammies. Some of the best music ever produced ever. Also my man Johnny Clarke in his youth untouchable.
Last edited on Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:25 by Fredblack
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Femergy
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:50 |
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Fredblack wrote:
Fem...I hope you are talking about the original Black Uhura with the legendary Michael Rose when they were produced by Prince Jammies. Some of the best music ever produced ever. Also my man Johnny Clarke in his youth untouchable.
Well now you tempting me ... what about U-Roy and I-Roy? And in terms of Johnny Clarke, still a great fan and still got the original vinyles - part of the family treasures!
Now, I'll let you into a secret, I used to sing jamming sessions with the Instigators when Fatman was 'managing' them. Cut a Fatman dub-plate with Mr Minnott himself on the A side!! I was Mafia's (as in Mafia and Fluxi) first production. I've written a number of songs over Studio 1 tracks for them!! Last edited on Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:53 by Femergy
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 23:52 |
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Fred
Boy..The Brigadier Gerry.. foundation MC.. and General Trees (always seemed to come off the worst in a clash)/ Sassafrass/ Dillenger..EARLY B (RIP) Tapa Zukie../Kojak..Toyan. Loui Lenke.. Sister Nancy...Johnny Ringo..the three demus
Shaka..Junior..(Nicodemus RIP)..as I stop more come to mind..
What you tape speech over your Saxon sound tape.. sacrilage man..nothing less..who want dem caan get and who have dem no want.. ..
Hmm Black Uhuru.. i start think of Ijaman (sp)..Burning Spear is dangerous....Dennis Brown.RIP..Let alone Studio One..
A truly wide music range in one music form. Reggae music run the world...
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Fredblack
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 00:18 |
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@Femergy...oh mi lord...You are a sister of deepest hidden talents and a felllow spirit What....You are lucky some dog stole my original soundsystem music trunk which my mother gave me because I would draw out your tune and listen right now.
Listen sis. The first time I go blues dance must have been 15 with my big cousin for a sneak preview I heard I Roy, plus young Dennis Emanuel Brown.
Fem I should have known you and ask for a dance with my fast self...But if you respect reggae music and involved in it still then friends for life. I remember going studio the first time to prepare for a sound clash with the Mighty Sledgehammer who were a bad youth sound who could hold ground with big man sound. Spent hours producing slates, to kill them dead with in Swiss Cottage and one of the mixes me and my brerdin had in our mind and we still tight today and after nuff arguments we got our way.
When we dropped that on Sledgie dance gone wild, man get mad. Do you know the leader of the sound never spoke to me for about 15 years and now he see me we will respectfullly hail each other. Boy man take music seriously. But we burnt him that night.
Well if you cut dub for Fatman I have heard it and know it and definitely the Instigator and most of Bogga Minnot's music.
Do you remember that tune called Baby My Love by the investigators which had the best DJ and I am prepared for argument with Mansa ever JA Stitch toasting[proper technical description] on it. Stitchy got shot in the mouth which is why he had that kinda sound.
But we will all agree there will only be one Mighty Diamonds for me the surpreme second to none reggae artists. The verstality and skills simply cannot be compared. What say you root sister?
Let me test people's reggae Knowlege...Who was Earl Zero and his first major hit. A dub classic-Mansa you too...
Remember the first time I saw Blacka Dread operator for Sir Coxone. Could miss it really the place was so small and us youth had to be next to the great man and watch him do his stuff.
But there is only one Jah Shaka who as far as I personally concerned is the king of dub and roots music.
Well I never to think I raved to your tune. But never like Fatman boys love too much trouble when a man come to dance to appreciate art and the best music in the world. Can't even see woman when sweet reggae is playing.
Few exceptions as ever in most things in life.
Peace.
FB
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Fredblack
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 00:28 |
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@Mansa. I can see you are biased and prejudiced. How can you come and tell me in your asessment that Trees and Briggy get mashed by them man. They are good no doubt and can rock and nice dance.
But you cannot put Ringo in the same class as Briggie. Ringo run out of lyrics and lack range and too much on the humour tip. Sassafras gave them a good run true dat.
But only Briggie can run dance by himself. I have heard Briggie chat all nigh literally without breathing and stopping only to light up his ting and drink a juice. Not only that I think Briiggie is more a testment and a walking representative of all that went before him.
The man can toast like them old boys in the early days of ska with them "good gosh", or "woa baby" kind a style and can run almost any style that came after. You can see I Roy there ,Big Youth and all the greats in his moves and his own personality.
Nah man bias..Call in the referee because Mansa done take money to cast his vote long time....
Hey I tell you the best DJ I have ever seen on an ongoing basis and any Shaka disciple will tell you. Ranking Dread absolutely unbelievable. But he could not do it on vynll only live. The man could and did give literally speeches and talk for 10 plus minutes striaght seriously about black people and then bust into another ting and to that all night.
Man what a music.
Sister Nancy one of the true female greats. Chaka Demus is a class act and hold court in a dance like a King. Plus I love his character and how he profilles. Definitely loves his art.
FB
Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 00:38 by Fredblack
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Femergy
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 00:29 |
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Fredblack wrote:
@Femergy...oh mi lord...You are a sister of deepest hidden talents and a felllow spirit What....You are lucky some dog stole my original soundsystem music trunk which my mother gave me because I would draw out your tune and listen right now.
Listen sis. The first time I go blues dance must have been 15 with my big cousin for a sneak preview I heard I Roy, plus young Dennis Emanuel Brown.
Fem I should have known you and ask for a dance with my fast self...But if you respect reggae music and involved in it still then friends for life. I remember going studio the first time to prepare for a sound clash with the Mighty Sledgehammer who were a bad youth sound who could hold ground with big man sound. Spent hours producing slates, to kill them dead with in Swiss Cottage and one of the mixes me and my brerdin had in our mind and we still tight today and after nuff arguments we got our way.
When we dropped that on Sledgie dance gone wild, man get mad. Do you know the leader of the sound never spoke to me for about 15 years and now he see me we will respectfullly hail each other. Boy man take music seriously. But we burnt him that night.
Well if you cut dub for Fatman I have heard it and know it and definitely the Instigator and most of Bogga Minnot's music.
Do you remember that tune called Baby My Love by the investigators which had the best DJ and I am prepared for argument with Mansa ever JA Stitch toasting[proper technical description] on it. Stitchy got shot in the mouth which is why he had that kinda sound.
But we will all agree there will only be one Mighty Diamonds for me the surpreme second to none reggae artists. The verstality and skills simply cannot be compared. What say you root sister?
Let me test people's reggae Knowlege...Who was Earl Zero and his first major hit. A dub classic-Mansa you too...
Remember the first time I saw Blacka Dread operator for Sir Coxone. Could miss it really the place was so small and us youth had to be next to the great man and watch him do his stuff.
But there is only one Jah Shaka who as far as I personally concerned is the king of dub and roots music.
Well I never to think I raved to your tune. But never like Fatman boys love too much trouble when a man come to dance to appreciate art and the best music in the world. Can't even see woman when sweet reggae is playing.
Few exceptions as ever in most things in life.
Peace.
FB
Yes FB, what can I say! Sound systems was kinda the rave to be at them days. Never went to much clubs, usually found me in one of them 'halls' hired for the night with speaker boxes balanced right up to the ceiling per sound system in the room the size of my bathroom! When I first started going to them clashes the vibration used to make me feel sick it was so powerful. You don't get that kind of sound now - too teknikal!!
I remember when I first started 'raving' and trust me FB if you were wearing trainers, I wouldn't have counted you as a man of calibre LOL and if you did stink well .............. and trust me there use to much man with curly perm in the 80's dripping all over my furs!
Well anyway, if you're ever in London town, go to the OBar in Camden town on a Saturday night and you can hear all them tunes spinning. There's not really that many reggae clubs now that everything got mixed up. But do you remember back in the day you were either strictly reggae or soul and you'd never rave at both ... how funny that all seems now but it was integral to the identity ... wearing Farah trousers, M&S tie blouse and trench coat.
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 01:00 |
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@Fem FB wear trainers to a dance? Rentaman crowd? No sah..not this brother come dressed to impress. Talk about Farrah. Girl I had two wicked and diffrent Farrah sarafir suits oh my god...Fred you were wicked, even if I say so myself . But my god I remember having a tight shoe attack in hot and packed dance . Probably worse than tootache and worse still not wanting to leave the dance as the music to sweet and have to go lightly on the affected foot.
Yep reggae man and Soud heads..natural division. Caribbeans v the rest of them whatever they were. Even though I was partial to some soul and even more a couple of them soul girls too. But my true home is as Bunny Wailer say" Reggae music music of the Kings..in this ya dance hall music"
But your not joking when I think of some of the holes we use to squeeze into to listen to muisc. Boy have to laugh. Would never of think of doing that now.
But you not wrong. Man it took me a while to handle serious base. I remember one night drinking some juice and the base was so heavy the drink did not want to go down my stomach. Like bass was licking it so hard the poor liquid frighten to move.
Will keep that club in mind because my bredrins and same tight crew I use to be in sound system in always threatening to drag me out to listen to some proper intellligent and uplifiting music. I will return the favour next time you are in the Eastern Caribbean I will tell you all the proper music joints are and avoid all those fake and weird disco kind of clubs they have where everybody stands watching each other...YUK..
FB
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 06:11 |
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Fred
No brother. I was saying General trees went through a phase he was getting buried on every othere sound tape. Its like they had him set up for a perrenial whipping boy..
Liutenant Stitchie got shot in his mouth. Never knew that..
I more a specialist of the 80s era.. /but it wasnt until the late 80s before I could get out the house to go dance..I had to make do with my cousin and brothers description of dance...LOL...
I agree with your assessment of Briggy though..different level..
Not sure about that Earl Zero tune though..
@femergy
damn Sis.. a you dat..you just never know who your talking too..Singer and songwriter.. respect Sis.
I remeber going to carnival to catch the sounds and feeling my chest resonate with solid bassline.. damn the whole street would vibrate..all those community hall dance/ moonshot club.. and that place round the back of ghetto estate in New Cross...
Never saw a club until the early 90s..
Farah's were a bit before my time .. Had a pair of waffles though.. .
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Le Moor
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 07:52 |
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@Femergy Respect indeed - (currently making bowing motions with my hands held high) You were right how could i forgotten burning spear so i had to edit that original list.
Farahs, Gabeachies (not sure of spelling ), Pringle jumpers, Sergio Tuchini tracksuit, Staypress, 3 button high waisters, Duckbill Shoes, Kangol Hats. Man dems were the days. (buoy sounds like im 37 going on 75)
Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 07:54 by Le Moor
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Femergy
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 08:27 |
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Le Moor wrote:
@Femergy Respect indeed - (currently making bowing motions with my hands held high) You were right how could i forgotten burning spear so i had to edit that original list.
Farahs, Gabeachies (not sure of spelling ), Pringle jumpers, Sergio Tuchini tracksuit, Staypress, 3 button high waisters, Duckbill Shoes, Kangol Hats. Man dems were the days. (buoy sounds like im 37 going on 75)
Well another just popped up so how about adding my man Derek Harriot - The 'Let Me Down Easy' man!
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Le Moor
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 08:46 |
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Well another just popped up so how about adding my man Derek Harriot - The 'Let Me Down Easy' man!
Yeah Fem wasnt that the same sort of time as that tune that went "Who told you soooooooooooo, that im a playboyyyyyyyyyyyyy" da da da da da dadda - not sure the title or who sung it.
Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 08:47 by Le Moor
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 09:36 |
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Funny where these discussions can take your mind. Anyone remember listening to the David Rodigan show on Saturday nights. Cant remember what station i think radio London or maybe Capital anyone know?
Yes one of the the most respected mans in the business. Cut some of the finest dubs with the greatest artistists. This man is no paper soldier- serious. He use to have regular clashes with his equivelent peer in Jamaica. I think his name was Barry Biggs. Am i right about that? Anyone remember hearing those clashes. One in particalar i remember was in a Jamaica and Rodigan cut one of the finest, sweetest sounding dubs i ever heard with Anthony Rose. " dis a one a call de chalice contest so which of the de chalice is de besssssst" Wackard- can still here it fresh in my ears now.
Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 11:18 by Le Moor
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Femergy
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 11:35 |
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Le Moor wrote:
Funny where these discussions can take your mind. Anyone remember listening to the David Rodigan show on Saturday nights. Cant remember what station i think radio London or maybe Capital anyone know?
Oh my gosh, yes. Capital Radio. My and my key wouldn't go raving until "Rodigan ah put on the pressure Oh Yeahhhhh, Roots Revival Presurrrrrrre...." care of your's truly Sugar Booga Minott. What was the name of the guy who did the Sunday show. Used to hear him play down in Clissold Park clashes ... I was down there the time Errol Dunkey got shot at.. remember that?
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 12:09 |
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FEM wrote: Oh my gosh, yes. Capital Radio. My and my key wouldn't go raving until "Rodigan ah put on the pressure Oh Yeahhhhh, Roots Revival Presurrrrrrre...." care of your's truly Sugar Booga Minott. What was the name of the guy who did the Sunday show. Used to hear him play down in Clissold Park clashes ... I was down there the time Errol Dunkey got shot at.. remember that
Fem........ na believe it or not i was living in Kent at those times so i was purely an armchair fan and would have been at school through a lot of those times. So it was pure radio and sound tapes i was in tune to except seeing Saxon play down at Skate City- New Cross and Carnival every year.
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 12:19 |
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@La Moor what kind of mess have you started here my brother. From last night I have reggae music on the brain.
@Fem..listen many officienados of the great art will argue that "Afroman" Derek Harriot was the most consistently successful vocalist and probably one of the most versatile.
About Dunkley what a great waste of talent. That brother really could have been someobdy, even though man tell me nuff man teeth him in terms of what he was due. But can't get the sharpshooters like we need because how they missed that fool in Clisold only god knows.
Me and my boys were in Phobes when Dunkley came and soil sacred ground and draw gun on the great Jah Shaka and the fool was right in front of us all two foot of him. The man was a fool and a violent one too who love to beat women, but he would have died that night and you could tell he come to shape and stood by the door and draw his gun and started to wave it around. So anybody who think gun just reach in the community don't know runnngs. But them big dreads would have killed him, because Phobes was like a temple of conciousness and big man come there to get spirit and conciousness and meet other bredrins and sisters in love and uprightness.
The only people who come with war in Phobes is them hooligan Fat man boys with their Kingstonian braggadan. But never on a Friday because that is when it was jammed with hard core concious brothers who ain't ramping.
You can't come there and draw gun and think you will escape alive. When some of the big dreads see gun and just form a cordon around 'Shaka, who did not know what was going on, until some of the Lewisham and Deptford boys in Shaka sound see gun and draw fi them things. When Shaka turned around and check the play he just put his hand behind his main record box and pul lout a long football sock which had gun in it and took it out. Dunkley done flee by this time. Boy Shaka was so cool he did not even turn around twice.
FB
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Mafdet
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 16:34 |
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@All
Too much sweet memories you lot taking me down.....
@Mansamusa
Your right and I think Fem hit it right on the spot when she said these music had spiritual upliftment as well music back then was used to spread a uplifting inspiring and informative message but today that can't really be said.
@Fem
Ah you dat singer songwriter .........but you make me laugh about the vibration of the sound system had your ears ringing for a weak.....but if you was to go deaf what a pleasurably way to go eh LOL.
If anyone was to say to me explain how in my opinion music has gone down I will say go to carnival today and then compare it to carnival back in those days as for Rodigan at the Urban Music Festival a few years back Rodigan spun some tunes in a short slot only about 10mins and brought the house down....in fact after this many people forgot why they came to the festival....without a doubt that man knows how to drop music. I am trying to remember the name of the other Reggae dj that used to come on sundays without fail my dad used to tune in every sunday it was Tradition.
@Le Moor
Because of my age at the start I could only experience enjoyment by tape and Carnival but when I became of age i.e when my older brothers allowed me to go to such dances man it was strickly Reggae all the way...Roots Revival Reggae all the way. Funny though them days going to carnival you didn't need a map to find these sound systems just follow the heavy bass and smell of ganja in the air LOL.
Ebony & Ivory by Augusta Asberry
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LadyDay
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 19:02 |
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| i love this topic reggae is in my soul
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 19:31 |
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Mafdet & Femergy
Sunday afternoon reggae show. You must mean Tony Williams.
Cant rememer the station though. Boy to think how people are spoiled for pirates now.
M.P.L.A./ natty going on a holiday... MERCY...!!
A random thought. What ever happened to Chuck Turner. "Tears.. tears.. all the tears a heart could cry/ tears.. tears... my emoootions running high.."
Selector!! Lick wood..
Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 19:34 by Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 22:19 |
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Ahhhhh Tony Williams how could i forget. Sunday afternoons Williams and rice and peas an essential combination.
Freddie Black keep those stories rolling man -love that .
Fem & Madfet your right about those B.lines ive never heard anything like it since- thats for real. I just recieved my copy of the Saxon Cd from Greenselves this morning, and even on there the amount of base coming through is unique. Just right though.
Man i'm thinking of becoming a thief. Forget Vincent Van Gough paintings or Pablo picasso, im looking to find out where Rodigan or Musclehead live and thief out all their Dub Plates..................................................
Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 23:01 by Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 02:05 |
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@LaMoor when you posted this topic man you have no idea what you did to me. Reggae is just my heart and soul. I drive my wife mad, because certain music just hold me and I will play one song to death. I was playing Small Axe the studio one version the other day and she was going mental. I can live with my music and books and going to gym and being by mysefl and life is nice with me.
Man it is just the words and how it is arranged with the music:
That man will live for ever. i love when he says:
"These are the word of my master. No weakheart shall prosper and whoever so diggeth the pit shall fall in it. Whoever so diggeth the pit shall bury in it. So if you are a big big tree, I am a small axe waiting to break you down etc....." OMG....
BLACK POWER, BELIEF ABSOLUTE FAITH AND RESOLUTION AND CERTAINTY IN OUR EVENTUAL VICTORY.
That kind of music will make the weak strong and the strong invincible.
But on Roddigan. We never liked him for the most part, but he won our respect for his love and knowledge of the music and he helped to promote it and popularise it if only because he was white. Heard those clashes in Jamaica and how could we forget them. History in the making and Roddigan really did well, but then he had contacts like joke.
@Mansa Earl Zero. There is an age gap so you probably missed that one and even when I was a youth his music was rare like goal dust and only few serious heads had his music. The first track I ever heard of him was realsed the same year as Aswards first record which was a hit..."Back to Africa" on island records 1977? Zero was produced by the King of Kings, King Tubby out a Waterhouse Kingston Jamaica.
One of the greatest and roughest tunes I ever heard. The thing I find so amazing about those brothers is the quality of production was rough and you could hear it on the tracks. Pure hissing and all kinds of surface and background noise. But my god King Tubby can mix and take the same defects and just make it part of the music and its own uniqueness.
"Please Officer by Earl Zero was one of the most definant songs I have ever heard. Very simple and direct lyrics but how it is arranged and mixed unbelievable.
Let me put on my best singing voice. Ladies don't laugh.
"Victimisation that is all we get in babylon, brutalisation that all we get in babylon. After trodding Jah earth seeking peace and love, meet a whole heap of ignorancy...Please officer you bulit like a warrior and you have more guns than an air craft carrier....
Hold the echo on the last two words....(Sound Engineer)
Silence and then bass drops from the heavens with such ferocity the place shakes. Brother use to go crazy when we played that tune. Talk about dubwise in the origninal.
Zero's definace in his words is reinforced by the bass, pure raw and ugly bass to let them know we don't fraid nobody...
In those days we had valve amps which gave rolling bass sound. But when we got electronic amps were you could cut the bass in and out by a flick of a switch we loved that tune..because everybody would be waiting for Zero's last line, the echo and the bass and then flick and as if the heavens open bass like you could not imagine drop from knowhere.
Earl Zero great artist. The thing that really make me say boy Jamaica dread they have artist that most people never heard of who are unbelievable. Arstist like dirt or rice grain.
What about a great group called Cultural Roots
"When you are wrong don't say youre right" or "Papa use to say easy living is not going to work under my roof".
All them great tunes..
What about Roman Stewart and "Suffers Feast". What a tune.
What about the great Vincient Hindes and his wicked group Culture "Stop this fussing and fighting brothes or Two Sevens clash". That is why I love being in my country because I can play my music for the world and don't care or other people doing the same and it is free.
Man nobody,, and it hurt me to say, could play Cultures tunes like Sir Coxsone. It must of killed Shaka that them man had Culture in effect under liscence and got all his tunes first and long time. And Blackadread could mix those tunes like nobody else on Coxsones set which really complemented that kind of mix. If you wanted to hear Studio One music you went to Coxone because they had it and their system knew how to play it and 'BlackaDread knew how to dub it.
What about great groups like Wailing Soul one of my all time favs and the thing about reggae music and you see this in Wailing Soul in particular is it is a synthesis of traditional foklore, traditional African sayings, common wit and intelligence in effect the totality of the culture synthesised into muiscal expression.
If it was not for reggae I am sure I would be a different person today and not for the better, beause it reinforced what we were taught in many ways, old sayings and wisdom and things we knew.
Yesterday I heard Cannabis' version of Mario's tune "Baby let me love you"[could have the title wrong but you know it, yesterday and had to shake my head when you see how crude and ugly this version is. The tune started off "girl just let me f**k" from the first line, and then goes on to say he does not even need to see her from the front because he can f**k her same way from behind.
No joke and what really hurt me is I love little Mario and his love songs nothing wrong with that. Love is a nice thing and for Cannabis who I use to like many moons ago to open up a tune with those lyrics.
But hear the joke the phone lines were jammed. People were texting to have the tune rewind and played again. They played it about four times.
Hip hop even at its best cannot compare to Reggae. Tupac is a nobody to a millon Jamaican artists and who wants to argue bring it on. It is an inferior artform produced by an inferior culture. It's been said.
FB
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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 09:24 |
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Boy where do I start does anyone remember the DJ Jamborees at dick Shepard (Tusle Hill) with Frontline sound and King Tubbies? Along with Colonel flux, Tipper irie, Papa levi, Pappa face sista Candy etc. It’s funny u mention Saxon and Ghettotone that was the ultimate sound clash bcoz u only got to hear one side of the tape and if u hear Ghettotone side u think raar! Saxone got buried until u hear Saxon’s side and realise Levi was taking the absolute p with Lesley lyrics and Ceaser LOL. Saxon ruled the roast around them times in 83 before Coxsone came and took over with Fat head, Daddy IP (rip) and Tenor fly u also had Small axe, Stereograph, Jamdown Rockers with Champion and his car tyre lips nobody could roll tongue like him (May be daddy Colonel or the Horseman) along with Young Lion, Black unity Lord david and Java one of the heaviest sounds In England they use to pull up to a dance in a big converted greyhound coach bcoz they had so much boxes.
And carnival under the arches with Rapperattack, Mastermind and Saxon they were the good old days before it got so serious with the influx of the yard element around Coxsone sound. Then came Special edition and Asher ‘world a girl’ Movement this was an important point in time bcoz that’s when the hard core ragga crew started to crossover and rave at predominately soul functions and start to cause trouble for the likes of Mystery.
Peace.
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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 12:31 |
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Twang good post. There are two tapes with that Levi/Lesley clash , one with just Saxon and one with both MCs. Ive heard both those tapes and i reckon Levi didnt get buried, more i would say got ruffled on the day. Levi was definately technical superior but Leslie carried the swing that night and got the crowd behind him. Its like Wimbledon winning the FA Cup final against Liverpool. Liverpool the better team but its all about that one day. Les lyrics dropped this one wicked lyric about putting Levi in a pram pushing him down the street and "beg penny fi de guy- if your luvva dem a sytle ball forward"...........- "FORWARD" . This swung the clash massively in Lesleys favour, it tore down the place. Then there was this lyric one of my favourites from that tape.
"gimme me de bacon gimme de me de bread
Me ago notch up a sandwich fe all false dread, here me.
Gimme de bacon gimme the bread
me ago notch up a sandwich fe all false dread
Me cum inna de dance wid a comb inna me han
i bring dis comb for false rasta man
jah know me ago weed dem out one by one
dem no righteous dem a imposter
and dem a bring bad name pon rasta
but if you luvva dem a style ball Murdee
........................MURDEEEEEEEEEEEEE
This lyric was a pure masterstroke . Although lacking in technical ability which the Saxon Mcs pocessed it had all the essential ingredients for burial. Levi had recently locksed up which is what Lesley was refferring to as him being a false Dread. So the relevance made the burial even more special. His vibe and enthausiam and audacity to take on Levi as he did, won over the crowd by the sound of things. Maybe someone who was there can clarify this.
I would have put the clash down as draw. However the Leslie and Caesar lyric let everyone know that 'look your now in the presense of a pure genius'. The f........g lyric was harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd. The delivery had typical Levi sarcastic expression attached which is perfect for burial. The way he encorparated small sampled parts from well known songs such as "stop dat train" and "im hurting inside" was truely magical and had the crowd genuiely mesmorised. Indeed that lyric saved his reputation which would been hurt that night.
You said Saxon ruled the roast around them times in 83 before Coxsone came and took over
Wasnt it the other way round coxsone were running tings till Saxon kicked them up. The yard sounds like Stone Love etc then took it over back to a Jamaica. there was a sound from Italy in there somewhere i think do you know the name?
Freddie B- I know exactly how you feel when you talk about Reggae music as it the same with me and Saxon. Just takes over and no other music can or ever has effected you the same way.- Strange. Feeling you with the Robert Nestor tunes as well. You're are leaving me with some of the knowledge though cos havent heard of some of the guys you mentioned, but its all good cos i like hearing it.
You said Hip hop even at its best cannot compare to Reggae. Tupac is a nobody to a millon Jamaican artists and who wants to argue bring it on. It is an inferior artform produced by an inferior culture. It's been said.
Boy there are no pigeons left cos the cat ynammed the lot.
What do think about who inflenced who when it comes to rap and mic chanting. Ive got a DVD interveiw which Sir Clement "Coxsone" Dodd says from his own mouth that he got the idea when he was in America (not sure who from though whether other yardies or US rappers) brought it back to England and that was the start of Djs talking over riddims and making a dance exciting, with lyrics etc. However since starting this thread and digging around i see most people say it was the Jamican Mcs who inspired US rappers. DJ Cool Herc a pioneer in rap music used artists like Yellowman and Dillinger when he supposedly came up with the new style rap and hip-hop? So im now confused who inflenced who?
Last edited on Saturday March 5th, 2005 12:41 by Le Moor
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Twang
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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 20:23 |
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Le moor
Around 83 Coxsone were running tings but they were more dub orientated along with Jah Shaka and Frontline but when Saxsone took over it’s bcoz they came with a new impetus Mc’s that could ride any rythm like the ones u already mentioned so it made them much more interesting to listen and rave to Saxon and Young Lion was another classic Levi's humour and intelligence way surpassed your average dance hall bod which always gave him the upper hand with Saxon and Ghettotone I think Levi took it bcoz of the burial lyric:
The fee the fee the fee belongs to me my pocket ago full lesly pocket empty him nah even get fe smell de prize money jaaaaaaaaaaaaaack it up LOL
That’s when the fast style had just come in fresh but another killer was Saxone v Coxsone
Levi: chant Psalm 23 chant Psalm 23 u cyant do it is it ? Levi trying to infer the Blacker dread was a bogus pork eating dread
Blacker dread responds: Me no love the way bwoy and bwoy ah call me name mind me no chop iny ya troat classic LOL LOL
But with the immergance of Tenor fly, Daddy IP, and Fat head around 85 Coxsone took the crown back off Saxone Fat head’s high-tech lyrics such as Keeping a dance in a carpenter tool kit over Nitty gritties 'gimme some of your something and I give some of my ting' … and daddy IP with: all the yout dem warn fe rich dem warn fe rililililililrich
Baaaaaaaaad LOL
Stone love came after this era
Peace.
Last edited on Saturday March 5th, 2005 20:49 by Twang
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Fredblack
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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 20:35 |
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@Twang Coxone and Shaka are different types of sounds from Saxon. Saxon was more Black British insofar most of those guys came from here unlike the older boys who had different following. I was listening to Shaka althoug less cause movement work well into 85. Just that different people were on the scene.
FB
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Twang
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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 21:17 |
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Fredblack
I know that’s why Saxon started to run things in 83 bcoz the youth them could relate to the subject matter they brought entertainment along with sound clash’s and not just straight dub for dub like Coxone and Shaka use to do. But in 84/85 Coxone took over bcoz they switched there game and the combination of UK born MC’S s like Tenor Fly and Fathead mixed with the yard element caused the youth them to switch there allegiance not that Saxon were rubbish but they kinda just started to rep South East while Coxone was repping South West. Shaka still play out now on Holloway road North London in the student Rocket centre but it’s mostly attended by hippies and spaced out student junkies LOL
Peace.
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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 21:51 |
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@Twang. True dat. Don't tallk about Shaka and them white hippie students. Went once just to see what man and man was telling me.
Jesus lord have mercy.
FB
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