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The Black Forum 2 - The BN Village > Welcome to The Black Forum - The Blacknet Village > Black Roots Village > History of Hip Hop.

History of Hip Hop.

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dimoke
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Posted: Sunday February 27th, 2005 20:02

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Oh dear how could i have forgoten

Yes yes i will go and download it NOW......

DM....thanks again!

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MyThoughts
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Posted: Monday February 28th, 2005 15:42

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Thanks to DM and Parris i'm starting to reminisce...Pop in some of those old classics that I miss...damn old skool hip hop could've been a voice for us...now its pimp, hoe, drugs, clothes, i'm gonna cuss....Got man like P Diddy and the like straight up stealing hits...and the young ones not knowing where the originals came from - sh*t...lemme listen to some educational 80's stuff...with this new hip hop ish i've had enough

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Posted: Monday February 28th, 2005 18:22

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Lets not forget the so called alternative rappers (constructive rappers) who are constantly sidelined and dropped from their record labels due to pressure from the establishment or lack of promotion by bogus Artist Repertoires who only look for what they believe to be commercial success.

Ones to look out for :

Ras Kass
Dead Prez
The Coup
Canibus
Common
Talib Kweli
Immortal Technique (under ground)
Killah Priest
Mos Def
Pharaoh Monch
The Roots

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YoungOne
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Posted: Monday February 28th, 2005 19:43

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I miss old hip-hop too, But some rappaz that mention things bout pimps and hoes, U should try look out for the story behind it, why ther sayn these things, I agree that its wrong...todayz hip-hop isn't here the real talent is underground, I miss the old Tupac, Big, Nas,Rakim,KRS ONE,Snoop,Warren G, Jay Z, Busta Ryhmes, Missy Elliot, I know theres a lot more all these people had raw talent back in the dayz and I miss it, today its all bout 'commercial rap' things that give us the wrong impression of people, But real music never fades away its always avalible for u to styll listen too

Let me give youz some good songs, Letter 2 my Unborn Child, starin thru my rear view- Tupac, the sky is the limit - biggy smalls, Snoop dogg - murder was the case, Nas - if i ruled the world, one mic Pacewon - its a secret, cormega -beautiful mind.......

Peace

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moneytalks
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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 08:03

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the soul machine wrote:
its a known fact that rap has gay roots.

If this was true..wouldn't rap have stopped producing new artists (Boom Boom).
This was too good to resist. Anyway I think hip hop is still alive and breathing and more creative than ever. Everyone and their grandmother is now making tracks indoors, like. And everybody in da world wants to be an MC it seems (channel u). Does anyone watch channel u? U got some dodgy peeps on their trying to rap. They need better quality control. Hip hop just moved with the times.

Last edited on Tuesday March 1st, 2005 08:05 by moneytalks

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Twang
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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 12:39

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Money Talks

How creative is it just to preach about killing or does your Pseudonym speak for it self ?

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Miss Brighter Days
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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 17:03

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DrunkMonkey wrote: A major part in the history of hip hop is the battles...

A good MC needs to be able to battle.

Some of the most famous battles are KRS1 vs MC Shan, Eazy v Dre, Tupac v Biggie, JayZ v NAS, LL v.... well damn near everyone lol...

Here are some of the biggest diss tracks in hip hop

The bridge is over.................. KRS1 v Queensbridge really

Jack the ripper....................... LL Cool J v Kool Moe Dee

f**k Compton........................ Tim Dogg v NWA

No vaseline.............................. Ice Cube v NWA

Dre Day..................................... Dre v Eazy, Luke, Tim Dogg

Real muthaf*****g Gs................ Eazy v Dre

The b**ch in you.......................... Common v Ice Cube

Hit em up.................................... Tupac v Biggie

Against all odds........................... Tupac v The whole east coast lol

2nd round KO.............................. Canibus v LL

Back where I belong..................... LL v Canibus

Takeover........................................ JayZ v Nas, Mobb Deep

Ether.................................................. Nas v JayZ

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DM - how can you forget TO DA BREAK OF DAWN - LL COOL J v Kool moe dee, mc Hammer and ice T! AAAH MAN the track was bad - CLASSIC LYRIC - here's 5 dollars take a taxi cab, take your rhymes around the corner to the rap rehab!!!! OH MAN!

LL was the king of battlers, kool moe dee kept trying and kept getting slapped! ANOTHER LYRIC FROM THAT SONG - You can't handle the whole weight/skin needs lotion/teeth need colgate/wise up you little burnt up french fry/i'm that type of guy!!!!

to me to da break of dawn, was  a truley classic diss record. The man tore 3 rappers a part in 3 verses! There was no comback!

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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 17:08

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moneytalks wrote: Hip hop just moved with the times.

Nah hip-hop flopped with the times. I lay the blame at the door of p-diddy, and all others that have come after him. back in the day, 50 would never be as big as he is today. Skills mattered more back then! If you tried to come off with nonsense you were dissed. IN THE IMMORTAL WORDS OF ICE CUBE - You was hardcore hip-hop/now look at yourself boy you done flip-flopped/giving our music away to the mainstream/don't you know they aint down with the team!!!!

But then that foolish man came out with you can do it! wHY OH WHY CUBE!

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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 17:26

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WOW MBD

I didnt realise you were eenna hip hop that deep to rock that tune!!

BE TRUE TO THE GAME--- Ice Cube

HIP HOP DAMN CLASSIC!!

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Burning Spear
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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 17:40

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Time to take you youngsters back to hip hop 101 clp)

Other famous battles from the old school:

Cold Crush and Grand Wizard Theodore and The Fantastic Five

Bambaataa and Grandmaster Caz

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Twang
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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 18:23

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MBD

LL got b**ch slapped and was knocked out by Canibus in the second round he handled that battle like the true chump that he is. Not only did he slyly remove Canibus’s verse off of his track 4-3-2-1 he replaced his verse with a diss to Canibus so imagine your listening to a track on the radio telling your peops that your flowing on it with a few other greats but not only are u not on the track but your getting dissed to. When LL heard Canibus’s retaliation diss 2nd round knock out on a mix tape he went and begged Wyclef as Canibus was his protégé at the time not to release it as it was career ending diss but they still went ahead with it and LL’s counter action was an absolute shambles. Unfortunately Canibus’s debut album wasn’t received to well by the American public bcoz he was a battle MC and they expected to hear pure diss’s and negativity but were met with constructive scientifical lyrics waaaaay ahead of his time so this went down as a flop to the Americans but a classic to non Americans, which caused the break up of Wyclef and Canibus. A year later LL releases another diss to Canibus rubbing his face in it the actions of a true chump now he’s forever licking his lips with a pay as u go 6 pac fronting on vidoes like he’s the man.

Check out the whole diss I was gonna try an take an abstract but given the implications at the time with Canibus being fresh MC and LL’s Ego as big has ever u can see why he was begging for it not to be released.

Second Round Knockout Lyrics:

Intro

[mike tyson]

Hey mike tyson here speakin with the canibus man over here
Yo canibus your main objective out here is to do nuttin but
Eat eat eat eat mc’s, for lunch, breakfast
Hey man they been playin me all my life man
You know I won a title a couple a times did right
No but they can’t hurt us man
We gonna do it, get up in this ring man, put on these gloves
Let me show you how to handle this li’l N****r

[verse one - canibus]

Yo i’ma let the world know the truth!
You don’t want me to shine
You studied my rhyme, then you laced your vocals after mine
That’s a b**ch move, somethin that a homo rapper would do
So when you say that you platinum, you only droppin clues
I studied your background, read the book that you wrote
Researched the footnotes, ’bout how you used to sniff coke
Frontin like a drug free role model, you disgust me
I know b**ches that seen you smoke weed recently
You walk around showin off your body cause it sells
Plus to avoid the fact that you ain’t got skills
Mad at me cause I kick that sh*t real N****rs feel
While 99% of your fans wear high heels
>from ice-t to kool moe dee to jay-z
Now you wanna f**k with me? you must be crazy!
You drippin with wack juice, and you can’t get it off
You better be prepared to finish what you start, N****r!

[referee] - (canibus in parentheses)
Hey hey hey hey, you just hold it right there
(yo, get off me man)
We got an illegal low blow on the fighter in the blue trunks
(yo, yo get the f**k off me man)
If I see one more of those, you’re outta here brotha
(yo get out my way man, yo he started this sh*t)
You understand? (f**k you!)
You’ll be disqualified (I’ll bite that N****r again!)
Stop bein a b**ch (get the f**k off me man!)
We came to see a fight

[mike tyson]
Yo canibus man you gotta hit harder than that man
You don’t want no b**ch ass N****rz hangin out wit me man
We’re warriors man, when we go into battle
We come out, or don’t come out at all!

[verse two - canibus]

Yo, you better give me the respect that I deserve or i’ma take it by force
Blast you with a 45 colt, make you summersault
Shock you with a couple hundred thousand volt thunderbolts
Before you wanted a war, now you wanna talk
It’s about who strikes the hardest not who strikes first
That’s why I laugh when I hear that wack ass verse
That sh*t was the worse, rhyme I ever heard in my life
Cause the greatest rapper of all time died on march 9th
God bless his soul rest in peace kid
It’s because of him now at least I know what beef is
It’s not what I would call this, see this is something different
A faggot N****r trying to make a living off of dissing
Somebody that he’s got to know is better than him
But he’s feelin himself, cause he got more cheddar than him
Well let me tell you something, you might got more cash than me
But you ain’t got the skills to eat a N****r’s ass like me
And if you really want to show off, we can get it on
Live in front of the cameras on your own sitcom
I’ll let you kick a verse, f**k it, I’ll let you kick em all
I’d even wait for the studio audience to applaud [cheers]

Now watch me rip the tat from your arm
Kick you in the groin, stick you for your vanguard award
In front of your mom your 1st, 2nd and 3rd born
Make your wife get on the horn call minister farrakhan
So he could persuade me to squash it, I’d saw naw he started it
He forgot what a hardcore artist is
A hardcore artist is a dangerous man, such as myself
Trained to run 20 miles in soft sand
On or off land, programmed to kick hundreds of bars off hand
From a lost and forgotten land, you done did it man
You done spitted some wack sh*ttit
And probably thought that because it’s been a minute I’d forget it?
f**k that! ’cause like common and cube I see the b**ch in you
And i’ma make the world see it too, motherf**ker!

[verse three - canibus]

I’ll battle you on the net
I’ll battle you in the flesh
I’ll battle you over the phone, you can call me collect
I’ll battle you for the respect
I’ll battle you over a blank check
I’ll battle you with a gun to my neck
’cause battling’s my favorite hobby that’s probably why you despise me
We can battle in hot 97’s lobby
Constantly battling, out in the streets
Or battle of the beats, we can let angie referee
Inside the jail y’all fenced prisoners look tense
Armed with shanks waiting for the battle commence
Ladies and gents,
Pick up the phone and call in the side with the highest
? pennant and decide the wench?
Lowest versus the highest, I’ll start a riot
You’re a virus, you run around screaming "stop the violence!"
I rip mics tighter than pliers
You say you the greatest of all time?
You’re a liar, your time’s expired
You no longer have what hip hop requires, so retire!!!

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The Watcher
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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 18:37

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Twang

*monkey giggles with high amusement"

Me and you will never see a beef the same way it seems LOL

It WAS a b**ch move for LL to do that on 4321 no doubt (btw DMXs verse is the best

) but even after 2nd round KO he still came back and ended it.

The following is how to bury someones career with one verse LOL... consdering it was all true that is a pisstake!

As far as canibus go, my man is hittin’ his ex-broad
I’m getting head from his new piece
While 20 gang-bangers applaud, you came up with that bullsh*t
Some heads sucked it up, then you dropped that garbage album
And totally f**ked it up, I coulda told ya I knew your moms
From the after-hours spot, when I used to be up in canada
With the dreads on a black block, before you dick rode lost boyz
For a ticket our to jersey, but being the man I am
I tried to show ya mercy, I coulda told the world
The way ya label hates your guts
And how me and wyclef, got together to set you up
And how he gave me half your budget, don’t believe me look it up
Ya a&r promotion N****rs, they helped me hook it up
I hate to be responsible, for destroying your career
A one-hit wonder, huh
No wonder you disappeared, I coulda told the world
You get your lyrics from the internet
Then spit ’em word for word
Like you really a rap vet, how you take metaphors from books
And put ’em in your rhyme, and how you really from canada
And you been frontin’ all this time
I heard your second album, that sh*t is garbage too
Ll cool j and I did this to you
On that note he said
Yo l, you the man, I said peace, one love

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The Watcher
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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 18:43

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Twang

*monkey giggles with high amusement"

Me and you will never see a beef the same way it seems LOL

It WAS a b**ch move for LL to do that on 4321 no doubt (btw DMXs verse is the best

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d1v1ne
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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 20:47

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On a real, I honestly feel that canibus won that battle. To me, he got a better flow and his rhymes are ill!!!!!

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Twang
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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 07:43

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Drunk Monkey

You see your cheating Lol why didn’t u post the original response the Ripper strikes back??? bcoz u know it was absolute garbage he was totally shook with Canibus’s lethal response all he could do was answer back line for line with a load of made up rubbish. This is why u have to respect Canibus bcoz if he had continued the battle in his debut album he probably would of gone multi platinum and ended LL’s career there and then but he just left it at that as the point was made. But since the commercial anticipation of his album reached a lack of expectation ONE WHOLE YEAR later LL decides to release another diss the one that u posted after Wyclef sold Canibus out. That’s a double b**ch move as far as I’m concerned kicking a man while u think he’s down especially after he spared your flagging Career. I lost the little respect I had for him after that u have to really check the arrogance of LL before u judge that battle not only did he slyly diss a man on the same record as him he went pleaded and begged them not to release the 2nd round knockout once he was exposed what a sucker.

Checkout the original rubbish I mean response:

"The Ripper Strikes Back"

We just gon have some fun with hip hop
A lil hip hop... relax, hold on to ya seats
Oh yeah this is a Tunnel banger too
Word up, Tunnel banger baby
Hip-Hop style baby, y'all remember

By the middle of March, when the pregnancy starts
In your ladies' placenta, that means L just entered
Duck taped your little b**ch ass for frontin
You poor little crackhead ass ain't hurtin nuttin
N****r you want the fame, now you're famous overnight
Famous for getting f**ked by a stick of dynamite
You're weak N****r, you bout to die up in your sleep
The overlord of rap will never meet defeat
Pain and agony, I don't touch them zones
f**king everlasting lyrical methods is my throne
Blast ya fifty pound ass and make you float
You read it shook N****r, I wrote the book, N****r
Held down my crown for a decade and a half
Now I'm bout to give your grimy ass a blood bath
Talk about bein broke, N****r I'm rich
Cause I learned, to seperated the money from the b**ch
Don't hate me cause I'm paid, hate me because
I'm everything you want to be : handsome, young, plus legendary
Talk about Farrakhan, N****r you got to call Jesse Jackson
For some Affirmative Action

[Chorus: repeat 4X]

Can-I-Bus ! Yes you can!

Don't ever open your mouth and mention my seeds
Talk about my book you bought to read
You know you watch the sitcom N****r so stop that
Mad rapper, but now you turned mad actor
Forty-nine pounds and tryin to be a monster
Run around town with the Bob Marley imposters
Ask Canibus, he ain't understandin this
Cause ninety-nine percent of his fans, don't exist
I'm goin underground and blowin your rep down
Next time, save that sh*t for the Lyricist's Lounge
Or a House Party, where you can battle some clown
On top of all that, I beat your homeless ass down
Heard that convicted rapist on the record too
Fresh out of jail, ass cheeks still black and blue
Tell me bout the things ear biter taught you
How to bust a nut or two? (Yeah that's butta boo)
You be decomposin, but you frozen because my title's stolen
Steady rollin in a world that I'm controllin
Vanguard awards are for Kings who get OFF!
Clock platinum mountains, the praise of the Lord
Talkin bout my first and second and third born
Now I got a fourth, Canibus, but he cut off
From the riches of my empire, I'm like a pimp
Who thought he had to retire but found a new Canibus to hire
You're hardcore, innocence like Heather Hunter
But definitely not with the lyrics that drop thunder
Found you in a trash can, hat black, cause you scared to bust
N****r in Todd we trust

[Chorus]

Now break it down for me !

See I, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, amateur, M,C's
in hip-hop, word up, no bullsh*t
Oh I ain't done yet

You soft as a newborn baby takin a nap
Make my dick hard with that b**ch ass track
Where you at? Smokin in some one room flat
Suckin on Clef's dick hopin to come back
Never that, N****r my size is unlimited
Yours is prohibited, of course that's contributed
To not knowin ya limits and who you need to test
When you step into the house of the Lord and get blessed
Get on your knees, bow down to my degrees
Young slacker, save that demo for Jack the Rapper
You gargoyle, slash olive oil, p***ycat
I wrapped up in aluminum foil, ready to boil
I'ma tear the skin off ya ass with ten knuckles
Rhymes was weak, they made me chuckle like a name buckle
You call em lyrics, N****r you need to stop
You goin out --- ahh f**k it, you goin pop
I feed you a poisonous verse so don't try it
No more rhymin, you on a lyric fast diet
Call the paramedic and tell them that he pathetic
His lyrics ain't energetic you're sweet as a diabetic
Career be over next year, yeah I said it
Look over your shoulder N****r, where you headed
MUTHAf**kA, where's a rhyme when you need it?
First rule of lyrical war, never repeat it
You said that same bullsh*t at House of Blues
Lit the pipe, dropped the match, and sparked the wrong fuse
That's you, yeah N****r I'm goin at you
Stop basin', and you can be a role model too
Diss my moms, who's the real Rap Don ?
Who ruled for fifteen years and drops bombs ?
Who's got solid gold Grammy's that say Todd
while you dropped verses at N****rs' proms
Faggot, you better battle number two
Cause number one, got his title locked down son
The King of all rappers that ever graced the stage
or the mic, best that ever did it I'm wicked
Write a verse and flip it, melt it down to liquid
And drown shorty, fill his lungs until I rip it
Chest busts open, heart bursts and smokin
YOU SEE THAT N****r SON? (Damn L, we was only jokin)
Maneuver manipulate brainwaves transform
your thought process, when my pen gets erect
Warning, all MC's better retreat
Look at corny-bus, he can't walk down his own street
Better run and get the Fugees
Cause I EAT, EAT, EAT, MC's
Devour they titles, cause I'm an idol slash icon
And tell Wyclef, don't even turn his f**kin mic on
Sold ya N****r, thought I told ya N****r
Crossover, slam dunk, game over N****r (one more time son)
Sold ya N****r, thought I told ya N****r
Crossover, slam dunk, game over N****r

[Chorus]

" Now wait for the studio audience to applaud, faggot, hahahah "

You have to admit one for one that was absolute tripe! Next your be telling me the Take over was better than Ether LOL

Peace.

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 10:12

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LOL TWANG

LOL

Too true ha ha ha

LL did lose and that was way too late... Cheating!! I like that, Well I suppose I was ha ha ha ha

Return of Jack was very weak thats why I ignored it...

BUT

To be honest Ive analysed the JayZ and Nas thing before on this site.... people just dont see things but anyway

Its like marmite. Hate it or love. You think one way or the other. And lets be serious its not between Ether and Takeover since there were MORE tunes and Takeover was one verse and Ether a whole song....

I would compare Stillmatic freestyle to takeover and Ether to Super Ugly. Leave it there. Most of the other tunes (you wanna be me, Blueprint 2) were just silly.

Round one

Nas Stillmatic freestyle (opening Shot) called H to the Omo

JayZ Takeover 3rd versre

Round two

Nas Ether full song

JayZ Super Ugly freestyle

Round 3

Nas You wanna be me full song

JayZ Blueprint 2 Full song.

Now discounting the sneaky disses from both of them a long time before and all the other silly things (like Nas on The Pledge remix and Jay's various freestyles on radio) then that is the chronology of the Nas v JayZ beef. After that they both kinda let it go. For me R1 to JayZ by a mile, R2 to Nas, R3 (both rubbish) but to JayZ. Have a feeling we will disagree though.

Last edited on Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 13:31 by The Watcher

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 12:00

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Twang i never said anything about canibus and LL.

I was talking about to the break of dawn. That was a heavy tune, with NO SWEARING.

Ok here it is

hmm reading through this, i have noticed a few mistakes. some people just write what they want when it comes to lyrics on the net. ok i will correct.

To Da Break Of Dawn"

Yeah

(To da break of dawn)

All my sex involved
As we get funky
Rhymes so bizarre
Everybody knows
When it come to a situation like this
Little more effects
And I can't resist
So we get funky in the house
Youknowmsayin?
L.L. Cool J style
What?
This ain't on a pop tip
Check it out

[ VERSE 1] [ dissing Kool Moe Dee]
What is a panther? A animal that kills
I'm like a shark with blood comin out the gills
You could never in your wildest dreams
Get a piece of this gangsta lean straight from Queens
Strong as liquor, to be seen in a limousine
Now you're gettin done without Vaseline
Wouldn't bite because your rhymes are puppy chow
Made another million, so competators bow
Homeboy, hold on, my rhymes are so strong
Nothing could go wrong, so why do you prolong
Songs that ain't strong, brother, you're dead wrong
And got the nerve to have them Star Trek shades on
Ha, you can't handle the whole weight
Skin needs lotion, teeth need Colgate
Wise up, you little burnt up french fry
I'm that type of guy
And I slammed you know, just like a sumo
Put him in pampers, leave my drawers in his hamper
When I'm through, you need a brand-new identity
I was scoopin girls before you lost your virginity
Your jam is just a dreamin MC scheme
Gettin crushed by a L.L. theme
Somethin like Shaft, put you in a cask' - bo!
You little blood-clot boy, you must not know
The rep I keep, the MC's I peep, sweep, play cheap
And freak with a chic YOU NEED technique
Get rid of the yukmouth smile
Cause brother, you ain't got no style

Keep on
(To da break of dawn)
(To da break of dawn)
Yeah
Keep on
(To da break of dawn)
Hey yo, that's kinda funky
But check this out here
(Rock that sh*t)
(To da break of dawn)
Yeah...

[ VERSE 2] [ dissing M.C. Hammer]
Immaculate styles I use to abuse
MC's, so light the fuse
And spread the news, you lose
To the damager, microphone manager
Cold crush and bruise and bandage a amateur
That amateur swingin a hammer
>From a body bag, so run and get your camera
Get a flick of the stiff dead-shot to get swift (THATS NOT WHAT HE SAID!)
But I'm the wrong brother to dance with
Cause I don't need a NEW partner to swing
Keep your eyes on the Cool J ring
Shootin the gift, but you just don't shoot it right
You couldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight
Wouldn't throw a rock in a ghost town
So don't try to play post, clown
You know the L.L.'s back in town
And all the wanna-be sherrifs is gettin shot down
(_shot_) Gimme that microphone
I'ma show you the real meaning of the danger zone
Stop dancin, get to walkin
Shut your old mouth when young folks is talkin
Huh, you little snake in the grass
You swing a hammer, but you couldn't break a glass
Gimme a lighter - woof!
Now you're cut loose
From that jherri curl juice
Cool J is back on the map
And when I see ya, I'ma give you a slap
That's right, a little kick for that crap
Cause my old gym teacher ain't supposed to rap

Keep on
(To da break of dawn)
Yeah
(To da break of dawn)
Funk it up
I said keep on
(To da break of dawn)
(Yo, rock that sh*t)
(To da break of dawn)
Check this out
Yeah...

[ VERSE 3] [ dissing Ice-T]
How dare you stand beside me
I'm Cool, I freeze I-c-e
On your trail and I'ma cut that PONY tail
You're disobedient with the wrong ingredients
But I'ma drink you down over the rocks
While I freak on your album cover jocks
You're gonna hear a real ill paragraph soon
I took the cover right home to the bathroom
In the immortal words of L.L., 'hard as hell'
Your broad wears it well
She's the reason WHY your record sold a few copies
But your rhymes are sloppy
Like Oscar, and you're bound to get dropped
And stopped, I ain't MURDERED A cop
Nor am I Felix, but I got a bag of tricks
Mr. Pusherman, gimme a fix
So I can show you I'm immune to them romper room tunes
You little hip-hop racoon
I'm not Scarface, but I want more beef
Before you rapped you was a downtown car thief
Workin in a parking lot
A brother with a perm deserves to get burned
So tell me how you like your COLD cream?
On a cone, in a bowl, or in a wet dream?
With your tv on channel fuzz
Uncle L, that's how much damage he does
Here's 5 dollars, catch a taxi cab
Take your rhymes around the corner to the rap rehab

Last edited on Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 15:53 by Miss Brighter Days

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 12:13

Quote

Nice one MBD

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 12:18

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Bloody hell, give us the newbies time to digest somethings will yaa......

It seems everytime one of you post something and i am just begining to digest it.....the other ones comes with more dificult mathematical equations..

Chaah.....you all just showing of now....lol

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 12:47

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DrunkMonkey

Regarding Jay Z and Nas

You're forgetting 2 essential joints fam by Nasir

1. H to the Omo

2. Last real N!&&a alive

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 13:06

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d1v1ne

No Im not. What you called H to the Omo, I called Stillmatic freestle. Ill redit my earlier post to show you.

but I did leave stuff out I left em out same way I left out the JayZ freestlyles and cameo verses of theirs on other people songs because.... they werent really on the radar the same way as the others. They were funny, but ain't really add nothing in terms of the main battle.

Also Last real N****r alive was more of a biography of nas than an outright disstrack.

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 14:39

Quote

Alot of the best stuff are on mixtapes that cirulate in NYC.

From what I've been hearing 50,game,Fat Joe are taking shots on wax.

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 17:08

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Drunk Monkey

Your breakdown of the Jay z v Nas round for round is bang on point but as u say the main battle was between the Take over and Ether bcoz although there were subliminal being thrown here and there The Taker over is when Jay really put it to him when I first heard that I was like damn!!! Biiiiiiiig mistake

check it out:

I know you missin all the - FAAAAAAAME!
But along with celebrity comes bout seventy shots to your brain
N****r; you a - LAAAAAAAME!
Youse the fag model for Karl Kani/Esco ads
Went from, Nasty Nas to Esco's trash
Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage
Fell from top ten to not mentioned at all
to your bodyguard's "Oochie Wally" verse better than yours
Matter fact you had the worst flow on the whole f**kin song
but I know - the sun don't shine, then son don't shine
That's why your - LAAAAAAAME! - career come to a end
There's only so long fake thugs can pretend
N****r; you ain't live it you witnessed it from your folks pad
You scribbled in your notepad and created your life
I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor
(Me, that's who!) Then I heard your album bout your tec on your dresser
So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong
You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song
And you ain't get a corn N****r you was gettin f**ked and
I know who I paid God, Serchlite Publishing
Use your - BRAAAAAAAIN! You said you been in this ten
I've been in it five - smarten up Nas
Four albums in ten years N****r? I could divide
That's one every let's say two, two of them sh*ts was due
One was - NAHHH, the other was "Illmatic"
That's a one hot album every ten year average
And that's so - LAAAAAAAME! N****r switch up your flow
Your sh*t is garbage, but you try and kick knowledge?
(Get the f**k outta here) You N****rz gon' learn to respect the king
Don't be the next contestant on that Summer Jam screen
Because you know who (who) did you know what (what)
with you know who (yeah) but just keep that between me and you

Although it was just one verse it’s much easier to do when it’s you doing the calling out first. Not only that the personal content in there was clearly designed to end Nas’s career and to claim the title of the king of NY. The last line was put in there as a little security measure just to make sure Nas wouldn’t step out of line as Tupac proved sleeping with your enemies wife is the ultimate diss. But instead it woke Nas up from a long sleep with Stillmatic and ended his own career in the process LOL. I mean why else would release Super ugly an absolute panic response and still beg for a pay per view show down $1m winner takes all promoted by Don King if you thought u had won? Also not forgetting Jay was also being aided by Hot 97 and Cameron.

That so laaaaaame LOL

MBD

I know u weren’t talking about Canibus I was just highlighting the point that LL’s a fraud he was no way a king battler just a sly one ‘To da break of dawn’ was ill at that time but he should of stayed in his era with the old school where he belongs. Now every time I see him licking his lips on one of his corny ass videos begging for love from some fine sista it just does my head in. Is it only me that thinks he looks like one of those mutant ninja turtles? LOL

Burning Spear

50’s already got a diss out called Piggy back going at Jah Rule, Fat Joe, Jada Kiss/D block and Nas (I think) I’m so glad he has that means after he gets ripped apart by any of the aforementioned that OVER HYPED WACK BOGUS G UNIT tripe will eventually be over quicker than it started.

Peace.

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 17:59

Quote

Drunk Monkey

You're right. My bad- I got it twisted. I didn't realize that the track was really called stillmatic.

Twang

50’s already got a diss out called Piggy back going at Jah Rule, Fat Joe, Jada Kiss/D block and Nas (I think) I’m so glad he has that means after he gets ripped apart by any of the aforementioned that OVER HYPED WACK BOGUS G UNIT tripe will eventually be over quicker than it started.

I'm feeling you this one kid!! He and his team are so overrated. With the exception of Ja Rule, he's about to be murdered on the tracks. I'm really looking forward to Kiss' response.................don't let Styles P get on the track!!!!

It'll be over!!!!

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 18:48

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d1v1ne wrote: Drunk Monkey

50’s already got a diss out called Piggy back going at Jah Rule, Fat Joe, Jada Kiss/D block and Nas (I think) I’m so glad he has that means after he gets ripped apart by any of the aforementioned that OVER HYPED WACK BOGUS G UNIT tripe will eventually be over quicker than it started.

OH MAN I AM AWAITING THE RESPONSE! Why did 50 go there.

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 19:16

Quote

@ Twang

Takeover was a REPLY not the first shot. Nas struck first...

Its seems Ill have to do some explaining. LOL

LONG TINGS ALERT

THE FINAL ANALYSIS ON JAYZ v NAS

Sorry folks but it was such a big battle that people like me and Twang will be arguing about this until we are old men lol...

First round

JayZ does Takeover's first two verses on stage at summerjam, the second to Mobb Deep where he raps with a picture of Progidy in ballet class behind him. He ends the verse with the line...

Ask NAS he dont want it with Hov... NO!

THAT was the first attack. Takeover's 1st two verses with one line for Nas.

NAS Replies with the Stillmatic freestyle/H to the Omo

Rip the FREEWAY, shoot through MEMPHIS with money bags
Stop in Philly, order cheese steaks and eat BEANS fast
And bring it back up top, remove the fake king of New York
You show off, I count off when you sample my voice
I rule you, before, you used to rap like the FU-SHNICKENS
NAS designed your BLUEPRINT, who you kidding?
Is he H TO THE IZZO, M TO THE IZZO?
For shizzle you phony, the rapping version of SISQO
And that's for certain, you clone me, your wack clothes line
I'd rather Sean John, bore me with your fake ass rhymes
And those times, they never took place, you liar
UN was your first court case, you had no priors
You master fabricated stories of streets and sound slick
Have you surrounded, you and the b**** you down with

So Nas is saying JayZ had a different style before and he reshaped it after hearing Nas. JayZ is a copy of Nas. This was to be the main thrust of Nas' attack throughout the beef. Also the gay thing, Nas use that a lot too, acusing JayZ of being gay. Fat Joe has made similar claims LOL.
Very good the way he threw in the names of the rest of the Roc there, I like the wordplay. Also Says JayZ never had no prior convictions aside from the Lance Un Riveira thing which was stage managed anyway. Big shot at JayZ's street cred there.

JayZ Takeover third verse was added AFTER that. He added it to the album version and made public the beef which he had already started onstage months previously but which went back years.

I know you missin all the - FAAAAAAAME!
But along with celebrity comes bout seventy shots to your brain
N****r; you a - LAAAAAAAME!
Youse the fag model for Karl Kani/Esco ads
Went from, Nasty Nas to Esco's trash
Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage
Fell from top ten to not mentioned at all
to your bodyguard's "Oochie Wally" verse better than yours
Matter fact you had the worst flow on the whole f**kin song
but I know - the sun don't shine, then son don't shine
That's why your - LAAAAAAAME! - career come to a end
There's only so long fake thugs can pretend
N****r; you ain't live it you witnessed it from your folks pad
You scribbled in your notepad and created your life
Jay is talking about Nas' song "looking out of my project window"
I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor
(Me, that's who!) Then I heard your album bout your tec on your dresser (I gave you power, a Nas Classic)
So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong
You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song
And you ain't get a corn N****r you was gettin f**ked and
I know who I paid God, Serchlite Publishing
Use your - BRAAAAAAAIN! You said you been in this ten
I've been in it five - smarten up Nas
Four albums in ten years N****r? I could divide
That's one every let's say two, two of them sh*ts was due
One was - NAHHH, the other was "Illmatic"
That's a one hot album every ten year average
And that's so - LAAAAAAAME! N****r switch up your flow
Your sh*t is garbage, but you try and kick knowledge?
(Get the f**k outta here) You N****rz gon' learn to respect the king
Don't be the next contestant on that Summer Jam screen
Because you know who (who) did you know what (what)
with you know who (yeah) but just keep that between me and you

So JayZ says Nas was great back in the day but fell off so bad the Horse and Jungle were better than him. Thats harsh. Also one hot album in 10 years is a bit stern too. JayZ also says, yes I sampled your voice and took your style and I paid MC Serch to do it too, you never got any royalties

. He threatens him with what he did to progidy by making alusions to the Carmen affair at the end too. Just like you said Twang.

Monkey's verdict

THAT was round one. And seriously it goes to JayZ for me. Too much of what he said was damn truth and even Nas fans like me were vexed with him at the time for the direction he was headed in. The Carmen threat meant nothing to me at the time (super ugly hadnt come out) but that verse smashed H to the omo any day. Nas called JayZ a gay and silly playground stuff like that while Jay took pointed shots and after he had trashed Progidy this was even worse.

Round two

Nas hits back on his album with the track ETHER

Brace yourself for the main event
Y'all impatiently waitin
It's like an AIDS test, what's the results?
Not positive, who's the best? Pac, Nas and Big

Nas going back to JayZ line on "Where Im from" one of JayZ's classic tunes from his second album where JayZ says "Im from the place where people argue all day about whose the best MC? Biggie Jay or Nas". Nas is subtley reminding JayZ that HE himself put Nas up there and at the same time Nas has turned it around by taking JayZ out of the eqaution and replacing him with Pac. That was class.

Ain't no best, East, West, North, South, flossed out, greedy
I embrace y'all with napalm
Blows up, no guts, left chest, face gone
How could Nas be garbage?
Semi-autos at your cartilege
Burner at the side of your dome, come outta my throne
I got this, locked since '9-1
I am the truest, name a rapper that I ain't influenced
Gave y'all chapters but now I keep my eyes on the Judas
With Hawaiin Sophie fame, kept my name in his music
Check it

Basically saying JayZ was a Nas fan from as long ago as he was doing Cameos in Jazz O's cheesy videos.

I've been f**ked over, left for dead, dissed and fogotten
Luck ran out, they hoped that I'd be gone, stiff and rotten
Y'all just piss on me, sh*t on me, spit on my grave (uh)
Talk about me, laugh behind my back but in my face
Y'all some "well wishers," friendly actin, envy hidin snakes
With your hands out for my money, man, how much can I take?
When these streets keep callin, heard it when I was sleep
That this Gay-Z and Cockafella Records wanted beef
Started cockin up my weapon, slowly loadin up this ammo
To explode it on a camel, and his soldiers, I can handle

Likening JayZ to Joe Camel... the cartoon mascot for a cigar brand. Look it up the resemblance is uncanny. This is where Nas starts he's thing about JayZ's big lips.

This for dolo and it's manuscript, just sound stupid
When KRS already made an album called Blueprint
First, Biggie's ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you
better than Big
Dick suckin lips, whyn't you let the late, great veteran live

I can handle you and all your boys by myself is what he said there, the rest is self explainatory, if inaccurate. What JayZ had said was, "If I aint better than BIG, Im the closest one" which is not really the same thing.

Y'all N****rs deal with emotions like b**ches
What's sad is I love you 'cause you're my brother
You traded your soul for riches
My child, I've watched you grow up to be famous
And now I smile like a proud dad, watchin his only son that made
it
You seem to be only concerned with dissin women
Were you abused as a child, scared to smile, they called you
ugly?
Well life is hard, hug me, don't reject me
Or make records to disrespect me, blatent or indirectly
In '88 you was gettin chased through your buildin
Callin my crib and I ain't even give you my numbers
All I did was gave you a style for you to run with
Smilin in my face, glad to break bread with the god
Wearin Jaz chains, no tecs, no cash, no cars
No jail bars Jigga, no pies, no case
Just Hawaiian shirts, hangin with little Chase
You a fan, a phony, a fake, a p***y, a Stan (remember Eminems big tune?)
I still whip your ass, you thirty-six in a karate class
You Tae-bo hoe, tryna' work it out, you tryna' get brolic?
Ask me if I'm tryna' kick knowledge
Nah, I'm tryna' kick the sh*t you need to learn though
That ether, that sh*t that make your soul burn slow
Is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy or Dame Dummy?
Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he's Puffy
Rockafeller died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter
And that's the guy y'all chose to name your company after?
Put it together, I rock hoes, y'all rock fellas
And now y'all try to take my spot, fellas?
Philly's hot rock fellas, put you in a dry spot, fellas
In a pine box with nine shots from my glock, fellas
Foxy got you hot 'cause you kept your face in her puss
What you think, you gettin girls now 'cause of your looks?
Ne-gro please
You no mustache havin, with whiskers like a rat
Compared to Beans you wack
And your man stabbed Un and made you take the blame (Back to that stage managed nonsense)
You ass, went from Jazz to hangin with Kane, to Herb, to Big
And, Eminem murdered you on your own sh*t (Renegade on Blueprint1)
You a dick-ridin fagg*t, you love the attention
Queens N****rs run you N****rs, ask Russell Simmons (Roc on Def Jam)
Ha, R-O-C get gunned up and clapped quick
J.J. Evans get gunned up and clapped quick
Your whole damn record label gunned up and clapped quick
Shaun Carter to Jay-Z, damn you on Jaz dick (your name even sound like Jazz O, your mentor's name)
So little shorty's gettin gunned up and clapped quick
How much of Biggie's rhymes is gon' come out your fat lips? (BIG SHOT THERE)
Wanted to be on every last one of my classics (NEXT BIG SHOT) This is where JayZ's frustration came from.
You pop sh*t, apologize, N****r, just ask Kiss

That last was talking about a previous beef JayZ had with the lox which JayZ settled over the phone. The rest was kinda self explainatory LOL

JayZ responded (too quickly) with the Super ugly freestyle.

But really, I don't need to heat
Your heart pumped project Kool-Aid, you sweet
I don't got a two-way, you gays?
This is not beef, this is rap, homie
I don't have a scratch on me
You feel Jay soft, rip Jay off
Damn, I'm only worth over 100 million
Look, I got beef with like 100 children
N****rs with pink suits, tryin to get cute
Since Nas brought up Hawaiin Sophie, JayZ brought up "the world is mines" video where Nas is in a pink suit) Not really a good shot because Nas was dressing up like the movies Casino with the Scarface beat in the background.
You a little outta line, homie
Don't let the nine, homie
Put you out you mind, homie
Just rhyme, homie
Kick you little lies, I kick my real facts
Like you sneakin out the back of the source sound lab
We wasn't chasin you (nah), we had a tapin', too
We came through to do our 1-2 thing
It wasn't a Rockafella come through thing
If it was on like that, I would come through Queens
With Queens, N****rs, you know I how I do
Look, I got more shooters in Queens bridge than you
N****rs would tie you up on the colliseum roof
Open beer bottles off that boy chipped tooth, look here

Basically, I got so much money that Ether didnt hurt me and you're jealous and acting childish. You were lying in Ether and here is stuff that really happened. JayZ saying he is more popular in Nas' borough than Nas himself...

Listen, I'm the J the A to the f**k-this-Broad
That N****r never sold aspirin, now how he Escobar? Nas is always refering to himself as Escobar after the famous south American druglord. JayZ is saying he never sold nothing. JayZ's way of getting back at Nas for the Lance UN Riviera stuff

Had to buy your chain back the last time you got robbed
The nerve of this coward N****r "oh (oh) my (my) god (god)"
And I know rap rumors and innuendo
I bring it to you live, lift up your window
Let the public peek in, see your dirty laundry
Ya'll don't want me to continue (HOV'!)

Me and the boy A.I. got more in common
Than just ballin and rhymin, get it? More in Carmen (It all comes out now, JayZ had been sleeping with Nas' baby mother at the time Nas was with her)
I came in your Bentley backseat
Skeeted in your Jeep, left condoms on your babyseat
Here, N****r, the gloves is off
The love is done
Its whatever, whenever, however N****r, ONE!
And since you infatuated with sayin that gay sh*t
Guess you was kissin my dick when you was kissin that b**ch (BIG Shot since Nas was always saying that)
Nasty sh*t, you thought I was born in Renette
You callin' Carm a, hundred times I was boning her neck
You got a baby by the broad, you can't disown her yet
When is your lies end, when does the truth begin
When is reality set in, or does it not matter
Gotta hurt, I'm your baby mama's favorite rapper?
And ask your current girl, she know wassup
Holla at a real N****r, Jigga, I don't give a f**k

Monkeys verdict.

Ether burried JayZ. They had a poll on air to decide between Ether and Super Ugly and Ether won by a long shot. Nas brought the truths home like the BIG fascination that was annoying even me and so on. JayZ went way to far and even his own mother had to step in and tell him off for that one. Bad form JayZ. Nas wins this one by FAR.

Round three

Im gonna skip quickly past the pledge remix by Murder Inc and JayZ's freestyles where again they dissed each other. I aint got the time. Ill just concentrate on the last two major tunes of this war.

Nas You wanna be me from the 8 mile soundtrack, which amusingly featured JayZ tunes too

... anyway lol

You can't be me, not in your wildest fantasy
It's childish; should I have to resort to violence?
Pay me a half a million, I'll consult your album
And show you how to stay off my dick
That's the thing I hate the most, can't even call you a man
When you gotta call out my name to get you some fans
No talent, you need direction; you a p***y with a yeast infection
You unlucky, I'm your f**kin C-section
Plus I'm the last real N****r alive
Toast glass, Ill Will, the label get high
Realize, how many classics I gave you
Perhaps if you think back you'll realize that I made you...

Wanna be me, you can't you faggot, you b**ch
You coward, you clown, you just wanna be down
So you - wanna be me, you b**ch, you phony
You clone me, you wanna be son, I'm the one and only
But you - wanna be me, you suckers, you weak
You flunkies, you fake, you couldn't come close on my worst day
But you - wanna be me, I burn you and learn you a lesson
Concernin this mic profession, turn your direction

Pretty much read it as it is LOL. Angry Nas... :shock:

JayZ on Blueprint 2

I call a spade a spade, it just is what it is
But you can't give cred to anything dude says
Same dude to give you ice and you owe him some head
(Shortyyyy!) It's time to wake up the dead
You sound a little naive in them articles that I read

Talking about Nas talking about JayZ dissing women. Calling Nas a hypocrite by throwing Nas lines back at him (From "you owe me" with Ginuwine from the Nastradamos album). Jay is saying as much as I have disrespected women YOU have too. No lie.

Can't y'all, see that he's fake, the rap version of TD jakes
Likening Nas to the preacher dude who has a reputation for preaching the gospel while living wrong and earning off it.
Prophesizing on your CDs and tapes
Won't break you a crumb of the little bit that he makes
He is asking when does Nas ever actually give back yet you think he is conscious. JayZ is appealing to the listener.
And this is with whom you want to place your faith?
I put dollars on mine, ask Columbine
When the Twin Towers dropped, I was the first in line
Donating proceeds off every ticket sold
When I was out on the road, that's how you judge Hov, no?
Ain't I supposed to be absorbed myself?
Every time there's a tragedy, I'm the first one to help
They call me this misogynist, but they don't call me the dude
To take his dollars to give gifts at the projects
These dudes is all politics, depositing checks
they put in they pocket, all you get in return is a lot of lip
He is saying that he actually DOES give back hmm
And y'all buy the sh*t, caught up in the hype
Cause the N****r wear a coofie, it don't mean that he bright Nas is all image, a conscious marketed image is still an image.
Cause you don't understand him, it don't mean that he nice
It just means you don't understand all the bullsh*t that he write
This goes for a lot of Nas' "fans"
Is it "Oochie Wally Wally" or is it "One Mic"?
Asking if Nas is the conscious rapper from One mic or the ho's and b**ches' one from Oochie wally wally.
Is it "Black Girl Lost" or shorty owe you for ice?
Same question but with these two songs
I've been real all my life, they confuse it with conceit
Since I will not lose, they try to help him cheat
But I will not lose, for even in defeat
There's a valuable lesson learned, so it evens it up for me
When the grass is cut, the snakes will show
All the other rappers who jumped on the nadwagon after Nas fired back. He has noone to blame but himself IMO
I gotta thank the little homie Nas for that though
Saving me the hassle of speaking to half of these assholes
And I'ma let karma catch up to Jaz-O, whoa
Jazz O' JayZ's mentor of yesteryear had a little battle with JayZ inbetween this one. It was over Jazz pecieving Jay as not helping his caeer and trying to stifle him. Look it up, Jazz O beat JayZ in that as JayZ used the Roc to diss him but Jazz took em all on LOL.
I'm back before you had a chance to miss me
My mama can't save you this time, N****rs is history
Who you know flow vicious as me?
Yet so religiously, that's why they call me Hov
I get the spoils cause the victor is me (me, N****r)
You're an actor, you're not who you're depicted to be
The street dreamin, all y'all N****rs living through me Going back to an earlier Nas tune where Nas was dreaming of life as a dealer.
I gave you life when N****rs was forgetting you emcee
By dissing you I resurected your career that was going downhill
I'm a legend, you should take a picture with me
You should be happy to be in my presence, I should charge you a fee
I'm Big Dog, Glenn Rob, listen God you a flea
And the little homey Jungle is a garden to me
What's the problem B? You not as hard as me
N****r hard as we, N****r R O C, N****r
That's why they follow me, they feel my pain and my agony, N****r
I won't rest till you on one knee
You want war then it's war's gonna be, N****r
Until you on one knee, you want war then it's war's gonna be, N****r

Monkeys verdict

Nas' performance was lacklustre as if his heart wasnt in it or her felt he had already won with Ether. He just settles for simple dissing here.
JayZ on the other hand had a point to prove and came out with all guns blazing. It was a good song but it came way to late and the damage had been done. JayZ won this round but....

Final verdict

Nas wins all round. Even though JayZ has 2 rounds to Nas one, in terms of impact... Nas WON.

Seems to me like they both lost interest in it after this and just dissed each other through the magazines and radio shows until that got boring and now they dont speak on it and avoid mentioning each other. Good fun.

All in all Id give it to Nas, because JayZ started it and Ether was SUCH a big tune. Also JayZ went too far, Nas' mother died at the time and it just wasnt on. Also JayZ's mother coming out and telling them to stop it before somebody gets hurt REALLY made JayZ look bad LOL

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 19:50

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Digitital Underground "humpty dance" Lol that song is jokes

favorite old school song is Regulators by Nate Dogg and Warren G

but other than some rare NWA songs and PE, not feeling much of the old school songs. from from early 90's to 97 were the best years of rap/hiphop.

I hear Xzibit is pretty big in england, any truth to that?

Most annoying rappers.. Manie Fresh and his whole and Lil John. just had to get that out there.

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Posted: Wednesday March 2nd, 2005 21:57

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Miss Brighter Days wrote: DrunkMonkey wrote: A major part in the history of hip hop is the battles...

A good MC needs to be able to battle.

Some of the most famous battles are KRS1 vs MC Shan, Eazy v Dre, Tupac v Biggie, JayZ v NAS, LL v.... well damn near everyone lol...

Here are some of the biggest diss tracks in hip hop

The bridge is over.................. KRS1 v Queensbridge really

Jack the ripper....................... LL Cool J v Kool Moe Dee

f**k Compton........................ Tim Dogg v NWA

No vaseline.............................. Ice Cube v NWA

Dre Day..................................... Dre v Eazy, Luke, Tim Dogg

Real muthaf*****g Gs................ Eazy v Dre

The b**ch in you.......................... Common v Ice Cube

Hit em up.................................... Tupac v Biggie

Against all odds........................... Tupac v The whole east coast lol

2nd round KO.............................. Canibus v LL

Back where I belong..................... LL v Canibus

Takeover........................................ JayZ v Nas, Mobb Deep

Ether.................................................. Nas v JayZ

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DM - how can you forget TO DA BREAK OF DAWN - LL COOL J v Kool moe dee, mc Hammer and ice T! AAAH MAN the track was bad - CLASSIC LYRIC - here's 5 dollars take a taxi cab, take your rhymes around the corner to the rap rehab!!!! OH MAN!

LL was the king of battlers, kool moe dee kept trying and kept getting slapped! ANOTHER LYRIC FROM THAT SONG - You can't handle the whole weight/skin needs lotion/teeth need colgate/wise up you little burnt up french fry/i'm that type of guy!!!!

to me to da break of dawn, was a truley classic diss record. The man tore 3 rappers a part in 3 verses! There was no comback!

LL Cool J Vs. Kool Moe Dee (1987-90)

Probably the biggest issue in the battle between LL Cool J and Kool Moe Dee was respect. Kool Moe Dee ("How Ya Like Me Now") publicly expressed his feelings that LL's music was too frivolous. But you don't stomp on a man's art form, especially when that man comes from Queens and is white-hot at the moment.

"'How Ya Like Me Now,' punk?" LL struck back on 1988's "Jack the Ripper." "A washed up rapper needs a washer/ My name is Jack the Ripper."

Moe Dee ripped into the Ripper on "Let's Go," rhyming, "Lower Level, Lack Luster/ ... Lazy Lemon/ Little Logic/ ... Low Life with the loud raps, boy/ You can't win, huh, I don't bend/ Look what you got yourself in."

Showing his resiliency, LL struck back with "To Da Break of Dawn." "Got the nerve to have them Star Trek shades on," he rhymed. "You can't handle the whole weight/ Skin needs lotion/ Teeth need Colgate/ Wise up, you little burnt up French fry." He also levied shots at Ice-T and MC Hammer for good measure.

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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 17:28

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Drunk Monkey

Damn what can I add to that breakdown? I guess it’s case closed. I think the only reason why we differ on certain battles is you’re a straight lyric for lyric analyser (minus the LL v Canibus battle) LOL, where I tend to judge an MC on the circumstances surrounding the battle who started it, what they represent how big there ego’s is, timing, style and delivery of constructive lyrics not just the same ole pimped out fake thug wannabe nonsense perpetrated by most commercial MC’s (Not that u do). But I think I’m gonna print off your break down and produce it whenever necessary it will save me a whole lot of future argument LOL.

On the last note though Jay z was ‘a dick riding fagot’ for real his albums are always featured with name brand artist’s except the blue print that’s why it was so wack ! The only hot track on that was Renegade which featured Eminem who absolutely slaughtered it. That Jaz-o thing was a disgrace I heard Jaz-o in an interview breaking down how he brought Jay through the ranks on all of his shows and when he became $100m artist he couldn’t even fine time to return his call’s and Jay z response was to indicate that Jazz-o had a crack problem, apart from ripping off his name u would think that’s all the more reason to help someone that once helped you. I mean Flex took the ultimate piss by putting a $5000 bounty live on air to any one who would bring Carmen ( Nas’s baby moms) to the hot 97studio when Jay started to brag about his exploits with her.

I remember back in the day when the fast rapping was in with the fushnickens , Das FX and the likes Jay bit the style but he weren’t saying jack. Around the release of his debut album in 96 Reasonable doubt I remember him complaining bcoz he was celebrating something in one them clubs or wine bars in NY and the security ran him and his crew out of there bcoz Puff Daddy was rolling through and now he wants to go on like he’s the G,O,A,T. Don’t get me wrong he is definitely the king of one liners but that’s about it. He really blew up with ‘Can I geta f*ck you’ featuring new man on the scene at that time Ja rule and Amil (whatever happened to her I think she’s acting now) But it was hard knock life that really blew him up on an international level.

When Nas came onto the scene in 94 hip hop had been hijacked by the west coast by Dre and Snoop with the chronic and doggy style respectively. Onyx made some noise before but Nas just simply changed the game and redressed the balance… standard! he up the stakes in rapping with Illmatic with classic tracks like New York state of mind, One love, Memory lane, Lifes a b**ch, It aint hard to tell and the world is yours there was only ten tracks on that album and all of them were hot. One could say this was the beginning of new school rap in the East with that ill Queens Bridge nasal nose flow LOL. Rap in the East was getting a bit boring around then and it did start to liven up around that time. Then followed another dope (hot) artist from the bridge called OC who was throwing subliminals at Nas in some of his lyrics but strangely he just disappeared. Then came , the Wu, and Mobb deep to make sure hip hop stayed in the East. So Jay should of just really kept his mouth shut and paid his respects.

Divine /MBD

50 has certainly press the self destruct button now especially after ousting Game from G unit live on air (apparently) bcoz Game said he would still make a tune with Nas and 50’s beef aint his beef, so I think the egomaniac took offence and sacked him. If he honestly believes Dre and Eminem can bail him out of this one he must be mad. He went at the others bcoz they were featured on the I’m from New York video along side Ja Rule who dissed/mimicked G unit on the first verse with(I’m on fire) he said they were standing to close to his enemy can u believe this fool? This guy is seriously starting to believes in is own hype he cant even string 3 syllables together and now he thinks he can take on the likes of Nas, Jada Kiss, Stylez P, fat Joe and now u can add Game to the list. I think he knows his time is up and he just wants to go out in style remember this is a guy that relies on pure hype in order to move units what better way to go than with all of the hottest artist out at the mo calling your name. One thing he did get right though was:

‘Many men, many, many, many, many men wish death pon he’ LOL

Peace.

Last edited on Friday March 4th, 2005 17:40 by Twang

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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 18:01

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Twang

I dont buy this idea that I have to like one or the other. Im a fan of hiphop. I love Nas AND JayZ. No bias in me whatsoever though I see you and out and out Nas fan which is fair enough.

They both have things about them that irritate the hell out of me.

Nas to me was the ultimate effing hypocrite. I mean, one of his best albums was It was written but that was so underated. However on It was written he had three conscious tunes (If I ruled the world and Black girl lost and I gave you power) yet the rest was pure drug selling, shooting, ho's b**ches etc etc. Yet people call him the conscious MC? Then he followed it up with I am and Nastradamous! I mean FFS!! I was so pissed at him.

They were good albums with a few classics but the direction was so wrong. All the time being slack and dropping one or two conscious ones KMT

He explained it to an interviewer as he was young then and he took time to grow and learn what was important. Fair enough I can accept that, me too. I used to love gangsta hiphop and foolishness and I needed to grow too. Also I accept it from Tupac and thats because sometimes someone is in a different mood when writing and artist wil write whatever takes him at the time. However Nas is STILL doing it. NOTHING HAS changed. Also Nas keeps trying but he cant do party tracks at all.

JayZ on the other hand pisses me off for being to party party when he has the talent for so much more. He should do much more social commentary and talk about serious stuff. JayZ however answered that in one of his best verses on black album

The music business hate me Cause the industry ain't make me
Hustlers and boosters embrace me
And the music i be makin
I dump down for my audience And double my dollars
They criticize me for it Yet they all yell "Holla"
If skills sold Truth be told
I'd probably be
Lyricly Talib Kweli
Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
(But i did five Mil)
I ain't been rhymin like Common Since
When your sense got that much in common
And you been hustlin since
Your inception f**k perception
Go with what makes Cents
Since
I know what i'm up against
We as rappers must decide what's most impor-tant
And i can't help the poor if i'm one of them
So i got rich and gave back
To me that's the win, win

Thats REAL right there LOL

Truth breddrin I rate Nas and JayZ up there with the best, Pun, ChuckD, Big Daddy Kane, BIG, Pac, Busta, and obviously RAKIM (IMO). They the last of the greats, there are no more left. All they have failed to do is die young or retire gracefully.

Nas is without doubt the best storyteller to touch a mic. Nobody can test him at that. Nas also pionered so many different things and techniques. Telling a story in the form of letters he recieved (Illmatic) telling a story backwards (stillmatic) and for all his faults he does put out a lot of conscious stuff.

To my mind there is no more versatile MC than JayZ. A true master of his craft whose rhyme patterns and mic skills are more VARRIED than anyone. Ride any riddim. HOw many times you rewind a tune to hear what he just said and HOW dope he said it??

Both of them have to many classic songs and rhymes that will last.

I cant decide between em. Rock both of their albums depending on my mood. Thats like deciding between BIG and Pac... well actually no because BIG had only two albums (great as they were) whereas Pac has had....... LOL

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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 09:07

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Drunk Monkey

To be honest it’s not even a point of having to choose between the 2 of them I just think Jays conduct since he hit the big time was egotistical and disgusting even the fact that he was hitting on Nas’s baby moms exposes his true sleazy character and I don’t really buy that verse either bcoz there’s no point selling out (which is effectively what he is saying) if your doing at the expense of your own people continually rapping about ‘big pimping smoking trees’ where the young and impressionable are hanging on your every word. What is the point of putting back into the community when it’s those very same lyrics that help to destroy it?

As hypocritical as Nas can be the majority of his tunes are constructive my youngest sons favourite rap tune is a ‘I know I can’ and given that he is going to secondary this year those are the messages that the children need to hear not the continual glamorisation of drug selling pimps. Jay has got skills no doubt but there are artist such as Mad skilz who are just as versatile (IMO 10x better) but don’t get the air play bcoz they refuse to sell out and where an artist like Ras Kass could destroy Nas and Jay put together.

Peace.

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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 09:28

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Lets agree to disagree because Nas conduct in regards to Cormega, Progidy, Bravehearts is to me just as bad. Nobody smkoe more weed than Nas except perhaps Snoop (and he is sober now). The conscious tunes are the ones you chose to remember. He has far more gangsta tunes than otherwise. Glamourisation of pimps??? For goodness sake nobody does MORE than NAs... thats what gets me vex when people try to ignore it.

See me Im a Nas a Tupac fan, but I dont try to hide from their worse music and just focus on what I like. Either you like the complete Nas or you like bits and pieces.

You can feed your son I know I can if you like, but the drug dealers in the ends are listening to the set up, Made you look etc etc and rocking it with equal fervour LOL

Mad skillz = Mad overrated

Rasskass = Had a lil time, hit hard withnature of the threat and a few lil verses here and there but not consistent at all.

When Im talking greats Im not talking about your boy from your hood who you think is better than Pun or whatever. Im not talking about that no selling underrated artist like Black thought or whoever. Im talking big dogs with big skillz and big reps. Cant ignore JayZ as a great. To do so on the basis of what you said is bias.

But Ill leave it here as we both going wildley off topic LOL...

Big ass discussion about JayZ and Naz ha haha (I told you we could go on forever) :cool:

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Posted: Saturday March 5th, 2005 19:52

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Drunk Monkey

To be honest it's bigger than Nas and Jay I suppose it’s all down to the individual if fake thug story telling makes someone the greatest of all time that would explain why hip POP has taken over from hip hop the artist’s I mentioned have stayed true the game and have extreme talent and will not compromise there morals just to keep a record deal. It wouldn’t be so bad if those $100m artist’s like J once they sold there soul let everybody know that look it don’t have to be like this but they don’t with all the money they’ve got they still perpetrate the bullsh*t leaving the children to feel if I live like that or rap about crap I can make it to.

I guess it’s case of what people really want out of music more than how much hype one can create in order to sell themselves to middle America bcoz that’s where the multi platinum sales lie. If u don’t rate Ras Kass and u think that Mad skilz is overrated then we are most definitely coming from different ends of the spectrum.

Tupac was a straight out revolutionary before he sold out (Pre Juice) his delivery was always the same but unique to him only.

Biggie was one the biggest fake thugs to ever walk the earth just ask his mum but a very skilful storyteller with immaculate timing.

Both are overrated but understandably so given the unfotunate circumstances. Although we are way off topic it’s important bcoz this is where I believe hip hop went wrong and I just cant support anyone that contributes towards it's demise. I rate an MC based on life time achievements and what there overall contributions are more than how much platinum sales one can accumulate constantly chatting sh*t.

In the words of Immortal Technique:

…and if you go platinum it’s got nothing do with luck
It’s just means that a million people are as stupid as f*ck

…Industrial Revolution.

Peace.

Last edited on Saturday March 5th, 2005 23:33 by Twang

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Posted: Sunday March 6th, 2005 13:56

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Twang/ Drunk Monkey

With all the greats the both of you mentioned, you're forgetting about Gangstarr. They've never received platinum status as regards to sales but they've got platinum respect. Guru really tries to speak positive on the majority of his tracks.

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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 08:07

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D1v1ne

True Gangstarr was a glaring ommision... *slaps wrist* bad me. The nazzmatazz albums were dope too.

Twang

Man Im enjoying this, but you aint teaching nuttin new bro...

http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackforum/forum4/4027.html

I was naming the big dogs who because of their status within the game, whose names will last and live on and forever be the greats. How many people can even name a few Rass Kass tunes besides the obvious? I was naming MY favourite or who I think are the best (most of those names would STILL be on my list btw) but those of biggest stature AND skills. ie Snoop and 50c got mad status but nobody is gonna remember them as being great anything... Scarface and Guru got mad respect and skills but not that status... its a combination.

My favourite rappers would be a long list LOL... Im pretty open.

KRS1 InspektaDeck Gza/Genius MethodMan Nas Rakim BigPun BIG JayZ Tupac Scarface Canibus ImmortalTechnique TalibKweli Twista DeadPrez PhiLifeCypher BlackThought Jeru BigDaddyKane IceCube BustaRhymes Redman DaBrat Kurrupt Treach BigBoi Supernatural..........and on and on

Obviously my list of my personal favourites will differ from yours but Im not crazy enough to call of of them greats just because I like em... many have their limitations or straight up NO fame LOL.

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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 12:43

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Drunk Monkey

I aint trying to school u bro were just expressing differences of opinion if u had presented the evidence before hand I mean u could of saved us a whole lot of writing LOL. But your thread just highlights my point further Jay doesn’t feature on any of the list’s bar 1 tune allure and that’s one debatable still trying to half thug it when at that point in his career there’s no need to and that’s my point. Like u said you cant like Tucpac and then Dis Nas for hypocrisy I like conscious rap but depending on what mood I’m in I also like constructive thug rap to. Like Mobb Deep the Infamous their debut album simply bcoz if u listen they are not actually glorifying violence but u can here the pain in there voice in tunes like ‘temperatures rising’ and ‘survival of the fittest’ especially the interlude if u listen to that album there not actually boasting but telling u the way that it is and if u been there u can genuinely relate to where there coming from:

There's a war goin on outside, no man is safe from
You could run but you can't hide forever
from these, streets, that we done took
You walkin witcha head down scared to look
You shook, cause ain't no such things as halfway crooks
They never around when the beef cooks in my part of town
It's similar to Vietnam
Now we all grown up and old, and beyond the cop's control
They better have the riot gear ready
Tryin to bag me and get rocked steady
by the mac one-double, I touch you
and leave you with not much to go home wit
My skin is thick, cause I be up in the mix of action
if I'm not at home, puffin lye relaxin
New York got a N****r depressed
So I wear a slug-proof underneath my Guess
God bless my soul, before I put my foot down and begin to stroll
And to the drama I built, and all unfinished beef
You will soon be killed, put us together
It's like mixin vodka and milk
I'm goin out blastin, takin my enemies with me
and if not, they scarred, so they will never forget me
Lord forgive me the Hennesey got me not knowin how to act
I'm fallin and I can't turn back
or maybe it's the words from my man Killa Black
that I can't say so it's left a untold fact, until my death
My goal's to stay alive
Survival of the fit only the strong survive

Although once they got paid the rest of there stuff just became glorifying nonsense. My point being it swings and round abouts depending on what mood you’re in at least Nas and Tupac give u that choice.

PS Nas’s 'I can' was built with kids in mind and seems to have it done it’s job… Standard!

Peace.

Last edited on Monday March 7th, 2005 12:54 by Twang

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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 13:41

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Whatever happened to the Intelligent Hoodlum ? I really liked his stuff, although it was never really popular. His most prominent tracks I remember are "Back To Reality" and £Grand Groove".

Also, the old duo of MC Freshco and DJ Miz, from a very long time ago! Does anyone know what happened to them ? The tracks I most remember are "We don't play" and "Now ya know".

ciao

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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 14:56

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Personally I don't think there is a story told on the level...of Immortal Technique Dance with the Devil..........

First time I heard that a couple of years back I was like damn...that last verse was hard to swallow even as a man..........

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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 15:13

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MT

It was the punchline

"staring into the eyes of his own mother"

That song messed me up man... deep deep stuff there.

He has another one where he falls in love with a chick and she kept rejecting him romantically and she didnt know why then she dies and leaves him a note explaining that she had HIV and couldnt be with anyone... Deep trust me.

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Posted: Wednesday March 9th, 2005 14:52

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All

Although it’s down to a matter of opinion but what really makes a good rapper? bcoz if we are judging it by records and film sales alone then we have to admit that Eminem is the greatest of all time which I think is absolutely ludicrous but bcoz black people don’t by music like white people do one is forced to be judged by their standards which I think is a tad bit contrived where it allows the establishment to dictate raps agenda. Rap generates around $1b dollars a year how many true artist’s really get to see any of that? Only the sell outs make little inroads into a fraction of that figure. If we look at the debacle a couple weeks back where 50 cent ousts one of his group members Game live on air followed up 15mins later by a shouting outside the radio station (Hot 97) where they were transmitting from, u can now see why rap is used as a form of ethnic cleansing among Africans by the esstablishment.

It was 8 years to this day Biggie was murdered 6 months after Tupac in the alleged W vs E coast beef and the tit for tat repercussions following those 2 tragedies spiralled into double figures even though it was possible that both deaths might not have even been related. This new beef threatens to go the same way as Game is from the West and 50 is from the East. My point being until we start supporting the true hip hop artists to counter the MTV hip POP tripe Long may the demise continue and that’s really going out to the African American brothers u have slept on so many constructive artist’s where the bullsh!tters will chat any fake crap in order to get paid as it’s middle America that seems to pay their wage.

Here is something for those who believe constructive rap doesn’t exist but is it any wonder with lyrics like these why artist’s such as Dead Prez’s videos are banned from MTV and eventually dropped from their record labels.

Intro:

Why haven’t you learned anything?

Man that school sh*t is a joke
The same people who control the school system control
The prison system, and the whole social system
Ever since slavery, nawsayin?

I went to school with some redneck crackers
Right around the time 3rd bass dropped the cactus album
But I was readin malcolm
I changed my name in ’89 cleaning parts of my brain
Like a baby nine
I took a history class serious
Front row, every day of the week, 3rd period
f**kin with the teachers had, callin em racist
I tried to show them crackers some light, they couldn’t face it
I got my diploma from a school called rickers
Full of, teenage mothers, and drug dealin N****rs
In the hallways, the popo was always present
Searchin through N****rs possessions
Lookin for, dope and weapons, get your lessons
That’s why my moms kept stressin
I tried to pay attention but they classes wasn’t interestin
They seemed to only glorify the europeans
Claimin africans were only three-fifths a human being

They schools can’t teach us sh*t
My people need freedom, we tryin to get all we can get
All my high school teachers can suck my dick
Tellin me white man lies straight bullsh*t (echoes)
They schools ain’t teachin us, what we need to know to survive
(say what, say what)
They schools don’t educate, all they teach the people is lies

You see dog, you see how quick these motherf**kers be to like
Be tellin N****rs get a diploma so you can get a job
Knowwhatimsayin but they don’t never tell you how the job
Gonna exploit you every time knowwhatimsayin that’s why I be like
f**k they schools!

[verse 2]
School is like a 12 step brainwash camp
They make you think if you drop out you ain’t got a chance
To advance in life, they try to make you pull your pants up
Students fight the teachers and get took away in handcuffs
And if that wasn’t enough, then they expel y’all
Your peoples understand it but to them, you a failure
Observation and participation, my favorite teachers
When they beat us in the head with them books, it don’t reach us
Whether you breakdance or rock suede addidas
Or be in the bathroom with your clique, smokin reefer
Then you know they math class ain’t important ’less you addin up cash
In multiples, unemployment ain’t rewardin
They may as well teach us extortion
You either get paid or locked up, the pricipal is like a warden
In a four year sentence, mad N****rs never finish
But that doesn’t mean I couldn’t be a doctor or a dentist

Cuz for real, a mind is a terrible thing to waste
And all y’all high class N****rs with y’all nose up
Cuz we droppin this sh*t on this joint, f**k y’all
We gon speak for ourselves
Knowhatimsayin? cuz see the schools ain’t teachin us nothin
They ain’t teachin us nothin but how to be slaves and hardworkers
For white people to build up they sh*t
Make they businesses successful while it’s exploitin us
Knowhatimsayin? and they ain’t teachin us nothin related to
Solvin our own problems, knowhatimsayin?
Aint teachin us how to get crack out the ghetto
They ain’t teachin us how to stop the police from murdering us
And brutalizing us, they ain’t teachin us how to get our rent paid
Knowhatimsayin? they ain’t teachin our families how to interact
Better with each other, knowhatimsayin? they just teachin us
How to build they sh*t up, knowhatimsayin? that’s why my N****rs
Got a problem with this sh*t, that’s why N****rs be droppin out that
sh*t cuz it don’t relate, you go to school the f**kin police
Searchin you you walkin in your sh*t like this a military compound
Knowhatimsayin? so school don’t even relate to us
Until we have some sh*t where we control the f**kin school system
Where we reflect how we gon solve our own problems
Them N****rs ain’t gon relate to school, sh*t that just how it is
Knowhatimsayin? and I love education, knowhatimsayin?
But if education ain’t elevatin me, then you knowhatimsayin it aint
Takin me where I need to go on some bullsh*t, then f**k education
Knowhatimsayin? at least they sh*t, matter of fact my N****r
This whole school system can suck my dick, beeyotch!!

Drunk monkey wrote: He has another one where he falls in love with a chick and she kept rejecting him romantically and she didnt know why then she dies and leaves him a note explaining that she had HIV and couldnt be with anyone... Deep trust me.

You never know... Revolutionary Vol 2.

Peace.

Last edited on Wednesday March 9th, 2005 14:57 by Twang

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