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DaChiefette
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Posted: Wednesday June 6th, 2007 16:50 |
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With all the black scholars working their butts off to preserve the idea of pan-africanism in the hearts of the diaspora, I wonder if how much is true or untrue.
I once was an afrocentrist or at least one in working progress(lol). I used to go around hating white people because from all the books I read about the african oppression, as it was hard to channel my anger elsewhere or in another form. Then in time I realised it just sin't necessary. But I still won't date white guys. I don't think its racist because with racism there is power. You have to have that power to oppress a whole race. However I felt at times that I would like to use them the way they used to and still use black women.
Is it really necessary in this day and age? To how much extent can we believe that black people were the first in India and parts of Europe? How will it benefit us economically, socially and financially? What is the best strategy to overcome this oppression?
I do read some books now from time to time. Although I don't draw myself too much into it. It just doesn't seem right to me. I left thinking what is there to believe? Should I really believe the moors invented the guitar or other black people did this and that...?
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Wednesday June 6th, 2007 17:45 |
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DaChiefette wrote: With all the black scholars working their butts off to preserve the idea of pan-africanism in the hearts of the diaspora, I wonder if how much is true or untrue. Surely you can use your brain to differentiate between what you think is true and what isnt.
I once was an afrocentrist or at least one in working progress(lol). I used to go around hating white people because from all the books I read about the african oppression, as it was hard to channel my anger elsewhere or in another form. Then in time I realised it just sin't necessary. But I still won't date white guys. I don't think its racist because with racism there is power. You have to have that power to oppress a whole race. However I felt at times that I would like to use them the way they used to and still use black women. Would you have rather stayed in ignorance and not gone through the stage of hating white people?
Is it really necessary in this day and age? To how much extent can we believe that black people were the first in India and parts of Europe? How will it benefit us economically, socially and financially? What is the best strategy to overcome this oppression? Why do people wish to know their history? On a personal level how would you function as a human being without having knowledge of your childhood/ teenage years/ adult experiences / family history.
I do read some books now from time to time. Although I don't draw myself too much into it. It just doesn't seem right to me. I left thinking what is there to believe? Should I really believe the moors invented the guitar or other black people did this and that...?
I suggest you believe nothing. The scholars duty IMO is to present the evidence and facts known ( which can be cross referenced very easily in this day and age of the internet and other sources) and intepret the findings. Which are not done in a cultural vacuum as even museums present evidence and artifacts in a political way which shows the cultural thinking of the group who present such things.
Its up to you as a thinking woman to look/read the evidence presented and make your judgement as to how credible or truthful you think the analysis is.
For eg. Ivan Van Sertima has presented evidence that Africans had travelled to the Americas prior to Columbus. Which runs contrary to most European scholars. However reading his book and processing the facts presented/ and knowing the general European alternative views does it come down to a case of belief? Or do you make an informed decision based on the 'facts' presented ( which can be cross referenced if neccessary).
Since Europeans control the general flow of information and shape the way we think about the world since childhood its really no wonder that Africans the world over find it " hard to believe" that they were too part of the world and contributed to its civilisations/ sciences. Is it a case of believing that there was an Ashanti Kingdom? Is it a case of believing that ancient Egypt was an black civilisation. Is it hard to believe that a black person could of brought the guitar to Spain? Surely with information at hand / when it comes to our history/ belief can be replaced. I would say have faith in yourself as a person with a brain/to what you accept or take on.
As to how it will help us economically, socially and financially? Every people base and compare their present achievements with their past achievements. On a personal level a person judges how good or bad they are acheiving their present goals in the context of their past. Without knowing the means of how Africans are now economically bound/ socially fractured/ financially stunted as a group/ worldwide/ how can a strategy be made to address it without knowledge of the past. Intepreted through our eyes. I would suggest its impossible.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Wednesday June 6th, 2007 18:36 |
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DaChiefette wrote: I once was an afrocentrist or at least one in working progress(lol). I used to go around hating white people because from all the books I read about the african oppression, as it was hard to channel my anger elsewhere or in another form. Then in time I realised it just sin't necessary.
What you did was common. You came to Afrocentrism out of a rejection of something else instead of as a love of self. First and foremost for you was defining what you are NOT and what you are against rather than what you are and what you are for. People come to such afrocentrism out of hatred for whites etc and flirt with the fashions, books, a few meetings or groups and burn themselves out quickly.
In their mind the hating and anger that they felt becomes synonymous with the afrocentrism and the search for knowledge of self. Eventually you have begun to imagine that afrocentrism is a thought process centered around the hatred that you personally brought into it. So now that you're tired of being angry within your own life, you are asking wether you should move away from afrocentrism.
Your question you see is based on this false premise. You should have gone into this thing being happy and proud and with positivity and think about your search for self knowledge in these terms. Make it something that you do things and feel fufilled with.
I can understand why some of us do this within this western society which can so easily get us angry in the first place but seriuosly you won't last long with your pride feeding it with that sort of negativity. You'll give up, see that black pride sh*t as a long ting and just say f**k it, and start doing all sorts of..... things...
Stay happy, stay focussed
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Wednesday June 6th, 2007 20:11 |
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DaChiefette wrote: With all the black scholars working their butts off to preserve the idea of pan-africanism in the hearts of the diaspora, I wonder if how much is true or untrue.
I once was an afrocentrist or at least one in working progress(lol). I used to go around hating white people because from all the books I read about the african oppression, as it was hard to channel my anger elsewhere or in another form.
@DaChiefette
Soo can it equally be deduced, that you question the defacto ideology in the west (built by white scholars working their butts off), which may be (or is) brainwashing African people, while we live amongst the results of policy, implemented at the highest level of government?
If Africans are not African-centered (Afrocentric) while living in the west, which people or culture has become their centre and reference for "reality", being that all ideas are created by people or groups, for example "emancipation", "justice", the law of gravity" "democracy" or "The Free World".
For many Africans, such questions have been answered and developed upon - hence our Afrocentric tradition (generations old) which exists without apology.
One reason why we have "scholars "is because you can still find professors today (in institutions where Africans "educate" themselves), who "profess" that Africans are inferior human-beings.
Europeans with just often a basic "education" understand that they have forced racist ideology into the world and forced it into the minds of Africans, the world over.
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Wednesday June 6th, 2007 20:27 |
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Bredder Tukoma wrote:
Is it really necessary in this day and age? To how much extent can we believe that black people were the first in India and parts of Europe? How will it benefit us economically, socially and financially? What is the best strategy to overcome this oppression? Why do people wish to know their history? On a personal level how would you function as a human being without having knowledge of your childhood/ teenage years/ adult experiences / family history.
Someone without knowledge of their past would be diagnosed as having a serious, serious mental disability.
Hence the statement "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."
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DaChiefette
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Posted: Wednesday June 6th, 2007 20:58 |
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My point exactly. Most of these comments are in opposition of what I said. There are too many arguments within the pan-africanist community and that is why I have chosen to take myself out of it. There is always going to be a debate. Afrocentrists (probably somewhere in their minds) may think their information is superior to others. Bredder Tukoma you have misinterpreted my post. Some history is relevant to me while some is not. I split it into two: direct and indirect. History that dates back to the Egyptians: "the pharoahs were black..." - that's indirect history, which could be easily debated. Now history about where YOUR ancestors came from or where your parents come from is relevant. That is your foundation. That is direct history.
I went to the AJAMU lecture in April I think. It was not surprising that almost in everything was in favour to black culture, which I guess is understandable.
All i am saying is it is best to have a balanced opinion. And over the years I have decided to take a bit from both the eurocentric and afrocentric views.
Surely you can use your brain to differentiate between what you think is true and what isnt.
Well for your information my attitude to afrocentrism did fluctuate from time to time. Sometimes you are in doubt in something. So it WAS hard to 'differentiate' from the two. There was a time when I was not sure whether I was a true afrocentrist or not. Don't get tense because I have a different opinion from you. I believe in what I believe. And what I have has substance so that is why I am fearless in what I am saying.
I have noticed this 'black-centered' attitude is making members appear arrogant. I don't deliberately intend to offend anyone I just believe what I want to believe.
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DaChiefette
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Posted: Wednesday June 6th, 2007 20:58 |
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My point exactly. Most of these comments are in opposition of what I said. There are too many arguments within the pan-africanist community and that is why I have chosen to take myself out of it. There is always going to be a debate. Afrocentrists (probably somewhere in their minds) may think their information is superior to others. Bredder Tukoma you have misinterpreted my post. Some history is relevant to me while some is not. I split it into two: direct and indirect. History that dates back to the Egyptians: "the pharoahs were black..." - that's indirect history, which could be easily debated. Now history about where YOUR ancestors came from or where your parents come from is relevant. That is your foundation. That is direct history.
I went to the AJAMU lecture in April I think. It was not surprising that almost in everything was in favour to black culture, which I guess is understandable.
All i am saying is it is best to have a balanced opinion. And over the years I have decided to take a bit from both the eurocentric and afrocentric views.
Surely you can use your brain to differentiate between what you think is true and what isnt.
Well for your information my attitude to afrocentrism did fluctuate from time to time. Sometimes you are in doubt in something. So it WAS hard to 'differentiate' from the two. There was a time when I was not sure whether I was a true afrocentrist or not. Don't get tense because I have a different opinion from you. I believe in what I believe. And what I have has substance so that is why I am fearless in what I am saying.
I have noticed this 'black-centered' attitude is making members appear arrogant. I don't deliberately intend to offend anyone I just believe what I want to believe.
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Wednesday June 6th, 2007 21:16 |
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DaChiefette wrote:
I have noticed this 'black-centered' attitude is making members appear arrogant. I don't deliberately intend to offend anyone I just believe what I want to believe.
Arrogant compared to whom??
Wouldn't you say that it would be arrogant to ignore Euro-history that has commited mass genocide and to this day, sees nothing wrong with those past acts? (hence Blair wondering why he should apologise for Britain's killing millions of Africans in the Americas).
Surely one would have to take arrogance to historically unheard of levels to match such violent ignorance??
Arrogance dominates the minds of Africans who feel objectivity is the prime preserve of Europeans (and their apologists), who themselves admit that they are racist (institutional racism), and love themselves first, without apology or need to answer for their culture, history and crimes against humanity.
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Wednesday June 6th, 2007 22:40 |
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DaChiefette wrote: My point exactly. Most of these comments are in opposition of what I said. There are too many arguments within the pan-africanist community and that is why I have chosen to take myself out of it. There is always going to be a debate. Debate about what? What arguments? Afrocentrists (probably somewhere in their minds) may think their information is superior to others. Bredder Tukoma you have misinterpreted my post. Some history is relevant to me while some is not. I split it into two: direct and indirect. History that dates back to the Egyptians: "the pharoahs were black..." - that's indirect history, which could be easily debated. Now history about where YOUR ancestors came from or where your parents come from is relevant. That is your foundation. That is direct history. Well thats where we differ. If it is understood that history is a ongoing process then for eg. a Carribbean person to only deal with the history of their island and not of West Africa as a whole is self limiting. How will they the source of the many things that make up tehir culture. And why stop there. Do not Britains find Roman and Greek history relevant to them. Is not the foundation what came at the very beginning. How can slave or colonial culture be the "foundation". Thats the problem with most of these black history studies that only talk about what Africans did after European contact as if that is all that defines us as a people.
I went to the AJAMU lecture in April I think. It was not surprising that almost in everything was in favour to black culture, which I guess is understandable. Well I assume it was a lecture by Africans for Africans. Whats is wrong with that. Is it somehow not legitimate because its culturally biased and not " universal".
All i am saying is it is best to have a balanced opinion. And over the years I have decided to take a bit from both the eurocentric and afrocentric views.
Surely you can use your brain to differentiate between what you think is true and what isnt.
Well for your information my attitude to afrocentrism did fluctuate from time to time. Sometimes you are in doubt in something. So it WAS hard to 'differentiate' from the two. There was a time when I was not sure whether I was a true afrocentrist or not. Don't get tense because I have a different opinion from you. I believe in what I believe. And what I have has substance so that is why I am fearless in what I am saying. Then what exactly are you saying? What is this diffrent opinion about that you take from eurocentric views. Surely if it has enough substance you can reasonably back it with the facts that are available.
I have noticed this 'black-centered' attitude is making members appear arrogant. I don't deliberately intend to offend anyone I just believe what I want to believe.
Making which members appear arrogant. And what is this black centered attitude you speak of. How do you suggest black people should be centered? Please provide examples.
Last edited on Wednesday June 6th, 2007 23:06 by Bredder Tukoma
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shakac
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Posted: Sunday June 10th, 2007 13:13 |
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Da Chiefette my advise to you is simple!!! Continue to question and challenge your own and the opinions of others.
It will at worse keep you on your toes and at best make you appear very knowlegeable & balanced to those around you.
I personally choose what I believe to be true from the two perspectives after much thought before settling on what I decide is fact to me. Having said that, it is clear were it not for the work of people like 'Ivan Van Sertima' ;
Black people would be ignorant about the discovery of the Americas. Therefore even if the agenda (Afrocentricism) is to promote black identity and strength throughout the ages. I support it however to what degree is questionable, especially if it is supporting blatant lies. Likewise I refuse to accept the history of aids in Africa being due to the people's love of Monkey flesh.
From personal experience I have found that no matter how one tries to conceal the truth it will always come out. So on the issues that both camps have valid arguments on such as the ancient Egyptians before the 25th dynasty I will sit on the fence until the fact is what it is and cannot be questioned. That is being smart.
On the issues of racism I find it hard to hate anyone but that is down to who I am as a person. I am capricorn and we tend to love rather than hate. It is innate to our charcater we know that hatred is corrosive and evil. Hate is such a powerful word to me I do not use it lightly. I can dislike someone but hate is another thing completely.
Thanks though for your post I am glad that there are others in the same boat as me searching for the truth but with the fortitude to dismiss some of the information you come across on your journey to the light.
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Sunday June 10th, 2007 17:54 |
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Pan Africanism, too much to grasp…………
Pan" movements are not new in the world. These movements existed long before the use of the preface 'Pan' was a part of a groups' organizational name. Any movement to recover or reclaim its history, culture or national identity after war or migration - forced or otherwise - can be called a 'Pan' movement.
This makes the concept of Pan Africanism very simple.
The word 'pan' means all. And when used with Africa, it means all African people wherever they are on the face of this earth.'
'Other people have no problem with this concept. A Chinese can be in America five generations, you ask him what he is, he will say "I am Chinese." He has not lost the sense of his historical origins.
We have become confused about our direction, our place in the world and our historical origins, and we see becoming part of somebody else's thing as our best and only hope. If we understood our origins and Africa's place in human history, we would take our African frame of mind with us wherever we go in this world.
This is the essence of Pan Africanism.'
JOHN HENRIK CLARKE
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RLB
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Posted: Friday June 15th, 2007 03:24 |
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With all the black scholars working their butts off to preserve the idea of pan-africanism in the hearts of the diaspora, I wonder if how much is true or untrue.
You only have difficulty in knowing the truth (as we all did) because the lies are so old but as I discovered, not particularly convincing! If you're told lies all your life, it is only natural that you will belive them in parrt atleast. The black consciouness movement redresses that imbalance.
I once was an afrocentrist or at least one in working progress(lol). I used to go around hating white people because from all the books I read about the african oppression, as it was hard to channel my anger elsewhere or in another form. Then in time I realised it just sin't necessary. But I still won't date white guys. I don't think its racist because with racism there is power. You have to have that power to oppress a whole race. However I felt at times that I would like to use them the way they used to and still use black women.
I'm glad you realise that. There is far too much 'I hate YT' some seem to think that saying this gives them black credit. Being pro black doesn't mean being anti white. I just don't see the logic in adopting the worst white invention.
Better to hate those individuals/systems that hate you. Plus the fact 'that' attitude has kept black people out of the areas we need to be in!
Is it really necessary in this day and age? To how much extent can we believe that black people were the first in India and parts of Europe? How will it benefit us economically, socially and financially? What is the best strategy to overcome this oppression?
The physical evidence is there, these scholars didn't create them out of 'thin air' they're just drawing your attention to them.
African sculptures, statues etc dotted around the globe are about as much physical evidence as you can get and the european historians explainations just don't fly.
The european archieologist view is this,
'Africans are stupied and lazy, so if we discover an tool ,dating back thousands of years, with african symbols carved on it, being held by the skellington of an african man, in an african grave, on the continent of africa, the tool couldnt possibly be african.....because africans are stupid and lazy....so someone else must of made it and given it to the african'!
With view like that, it's easy to see why african has never been attriuted ANYTHING of significance.
I do read some books now from time to time. Although I don't draw myself too much into it. It just doesn't seem right to me. I left thinking what is there to believe? Should I really believe the moors invented the guitar or other black people did this and that...?
The question isn't ''Should I believe the moors invented the guitar or other black people did this and that?'' But rather ''Why don't I believe the moors invented the guitar or other black people did this and that...?''!
It stands to reason that a skilled artist with 20 years experience should/would create more art that an artist with 5 years exprience...Even if that isn't true, it still holds true that the artist with 20 years experience would of created SOME works of art?
Like wise, as the oldest race upon this earth, dosen't it stand to reason that we have created something?
Why would you have such difficulty beliveing that moors invented the guitar?
Ask yourself this question, ''I someone said the spanish invented the guitar, would I belive that?'' Chances are you would. Why? Because spanish achiements are flaunted and african achievemts are hidden, dimissised, stolen or just plain denied.
If you have'nt already, then it may be a good idea for you to search the web for articles on 'The psychology of racism'' and those who benifit from using it.
It puts things into perspective.
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