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| Moderated by: The Watcher, Saida.M, safetyblitz, Raven, Miss Brighter Days, LadyDay, Kunjufu, Kibibi, Happiness, Dillinger, Breadfruit, Backatya |
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday November 27th, 2006 06:28 |
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Its amazing listening to the reaction to Blair's partial 'apology' on radio 4 for example tries to spin it that West Africans were responsible for Slavery... On LBC some wazugu, says that Britain should be feted because of Wilberforce and the Royal Navy for their fight against Slavery... This wazugu even had the temerity to state that AFRICANS started slavery....and they NOT the UK should apologise for Slavery..
so the spin begins, to absolve the UK of responsibility..typical..
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LadyDay
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Posted: Monday November 27th, 2006 09:47 |
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You should've heard the debate on the Matthew Wright show. an elder spoke up in teh audience and they were like ok strong views, yet a young person ferlt insulted, wonders never cease
me personally i want more than an apology i want the truth taught in schools. the way it stands now unless your parents teach you it, you wont learn about slavery unless you have gone to uni and study american history
an apology for me would be simply teaching it in schools without switching blame saying but xyz, just state it clearly britain was built on the sweat and blood of Africans millions more than what they actually state
teach it in schools and stop pretending it never happened.
liverpool apologised but they also have a huge exhibition and have walks to educate about it what about the rest of ya
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Monday November 27th, 2006 12:01 |
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**MERGED**
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History is a people's memory, and without a memory, man is demoted to the lower animals
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LadyDay
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Posted: Monday November 27th, 2006 17:59 |
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| bump
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defyfear
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Posted: Monday November 27th, 2006 20:29 |
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So far those 'millions of pounds' seem to be used to 'test' the public reaction to this divisive issue from the British establishment.
Never heard of a partial apology.
I guess there will be more 'race' matters to 'test' to see what makes the everyday British citizen squirm about slavery, history, race and having the politicians and special interest relish the occasions now and to come.
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Monday November 27th, 2006 22:08 |
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African Queen ...
... shames Massa's House Negro ...
... please listen here
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Wednesday November 29th, 2006 14:55 |
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Should Blair Apologize?
Â
Why such a hoo ha around if the political head of state should say sorry for Britain’s role in genocide?
Â
Would there be similar debate if the German people had to repent for their nation's role in the killing of Jews? I guess that question has already been answered by popular moral opinion plus consistent reparations, paid annually.
Â
So why when Africans, who were victims of one of the greatest crimes humanity has ever had to bear witness to, ask for their humanity to be recognized, do soo many, whether European or African, question such respect being paid to a race that were made slave via laws passed in Parliament?Â
Â
Tony Blair, as the modern day leader of an Institution that murdered millions of our ancestors, for whatever reason has weakly addressed how British people dehumanised millions of Africans which set the stage for modern day racism that plagues the lives of Africans in Diaspora today.
Â
This is not the normal political rhetoric of white people but the historic arguments of Africans who have consistently demanded that we be treated like human-beings and not chattel (property). As ever, they are stealing what we produce.
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Â
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Africans, not fighting for anything better than 3rd class citizenry in lands of their birth, reflect the historic legacy of their Ancestors who lived under laws and European authority that said Africans could be killed for thinking or acting as though they had the same rights as white people. Their place was set by men of power and privilege, who’s thoughts then became empowered by statute.  These animals were not common men but founding fathers of today’s modern nation states. Â
Â
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Such history would force right thinking Africans today to look at the role of Government and law and their implications to our lives. How European law and institutions impact on our ability to determine how we choose to live.
Â
Africans have lost soo much because of the minds of white men who choose to brutalise a race, a continent of people. Them acknowledging this fact should not be cause for them to be praised or respected for their apparent movement away from their organised barbarity; their nations are still racist and violent to Africans as a function of their existence, grounded in history.
Â
Africans, who have failed to understand that their future is with their own and not with a people who debate whether it was wrong to kill us using machinery (state sponsored industry), should now listen to the words of people who they have praised for their civility and whiteness, and know that the reasons for soo many developmental problems we faced in the past and also currently, are rooted in the decisions people like Tony Blair make behind closed doors with people who have always hated us.
Â
Why should they say sorry to a people they have never seen, never treated as their equals? Since when has a Black life being equal to a white life in their eyes?
Â
1807, 2007, what's the difference?
Â
Institutional racism is the 21st century way of saying, “you are still a slave, my slave.�
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Â
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Â
“Racism, not the rights of man, drove the horrors of the triangular slave trade.�
Â
Tony Blair (New Nation, 27th November 2006)
Leader of the political state that organized the murder of millions of African souls during the building of modern, racist, Europe.
Â
Â
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Â
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misunderstood2006
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Posted: Wednesday November 29th, 2006 17:56 |
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LadyDay
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Posted: Wednesday November 29th, 2006 19:43 |
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MarcusGarveyLives wrote:
African Queen ...
... shames Massa's House Negro ...
... please listen here
Thanks for the radio link
where can i find out more on the sister, her arguments were on point
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Wednesday November 29th, 2006 20:34 |
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... more about one of hardest working Warriors ...
... one of Britain's most dynamic African Queens ...
Massa's House Negro
African Queens like this remain single while 'Brothers' crawl into the slave masters' great granddaughter's bed ... 'too African, too strong' ...
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antonio amen
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Posted: Thursday November 30th, 2006 14:43 |
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question...... in what regards do "any" so-called whites owe any so-called blacks for crimes that they did not personally commit. and once; if or when such an apology was ever rendered, then what. "hey, mr. black guy. my fore fathers &*%$ed up, and i'm sorry". then what. would the decades and centuries of psycho sodomy be mysteriously reversed? would we still hate ourselves? would we still hate each other; now, so deeply interwoven into our culture that we don't know why. would we then feel better about ourselves? would we then stop portraying those so-called false black images to the rest of the world? they severed our tongues and fed us english. the broke our amulets, burned our paryrus', and gave us ‘their version� of christianity..... and we ran with it. every facet of so-called western "civilization" has been adopted, nurtured, and expanded upon by the black community. if for any other reason, because we take things and run with it. music, fashion, art, poetry, dance, entertainment, sports, and sexuality to the utmost (not saying that there was no genocide, but how have we evolved; after the fact. Not saying that we had no cultural ornaments of our own).......... but what then, will these jack [url=mailto:#$@es]#$#es[/url] take off all that jewelry they could have bought an education with. or the cars, the rims, the clothes, the frivolous spending as if we won't have bills tomorrow. or maybe the clowns that parade and prance around the planet as pimps, players, drug dealers, gang bangers, and convicts. all the while, mainstream society believes in these images. little children want to grow up and be criminals. young adolescents remain children for the rest of their lives because they don't have to grow up and be men, nor know how. little girls grow up, thinking of themselves as weekend pu&&ee and baby mommas; never thinking they deserve to be wed, and not carrying themselves as such....... in all honesty, i believe that the willy lynch syndrome is alive and very much kicking. the question is, are they at fault for teaching/ forcing it upon us, or are we at fault for adopting it; even expanding upon it. .......... now i'm not saying that all black people aren't worth a sh#t. so neither can i generalize another race by saying that their not. that makes me a hypocrite. the problem is not what they did or even what they do. the problem lies with us accepting it. our self image and self esteem has been so damaged to the point that we don't know who we are anymore; some never did. you don't hate the white man, you hate yourself. and he doesn't make you feel any better about it. we reduce our morals, standards, and ideals in trade for financial gain (not all, some). the unfortunate fact is that the entire community suffers. drug dealers get to pay their bills, but now you have zombies walking the streets. then follows robberies, murders, and prostitution. is this a complete reality, no. but these are the images that we support and allow to be portrayed; not only to america, but the rest of the world. and the white man that you say is holding you back, is not stopping you. why, because we are showing the rest of the world that they were right. and if no progress has not been achieved, who then can we blame..........just a thought…………. If reparations is to be awarded, what determines eligibility, who will see that the funds are allocated in due proportion. What type of programs will be emplimented and maintained to effectively rehabilitate the “black man�. The NOI and NAACP are totally out of the question………… Now at first, I didn’t realize that this was a UK based sight. So, some of the issues are u.s. specific, or maybe their universal. I’ve never been to the UK. But in that respect, I do realized that geographical location plays a major role in whatever goal is to be achieved. Black and African are general terms which encompass the whole of a people. This is to be considered when action takes place; not to say that it hasn’t been. But for myself; coming from los angeles; I am limited in my exposure to the cultures and needs of such a spanned and spread out cause. Each location has different priorities and specific needs. So what if we get and apology. That like a rapist saying I’m sorry. Or a murderer trying to take back the bullet. I know your fore fathers did it. How are we going to fix it. Keep your apology and get these police out of my ass. Keep your apology and stop sending special forces to sabotaging shipments in the carribian. Keep your apology. And keep everything that you’ve pillaged, stole, burned or buried, and the leave me alone. Is it what “was� done, or what continues to “be� done. Keep your apology and remove “your� government occupations from our lands…………. And with that said. What good is an apology if there is no action..� baby I know I was wrong, but I promise that I wont cheat on you anymore�. After all the blood that has been shed over these centuries, I admire the warriors that continue to fight. But my soul is tired. we must pick our battle fields. We also take into account, how many women and children are left at home when we go off to do battle; many never to return. My place is in the home, on the porch, at the park, and active in the schools. These are the little things that are sometimes not highlighted when reform is mentioned………….. just leave us alone, and we’ll fix it ourselves. You’ve given me enough help, and now I have to fix that too..
hmmm. i guess it ended up being a two sided coin after all.
Last edited on Thursday November 30th, 2006 18:51 by antonio amen
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Thursday November 30th, 2006 16:47 |
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@Antonio
Welcome to the Village, (Try a few paragraphs next time )
“Racism, not the rights of man, drove the horrors of the triangular slave trade.�
Tony Blair (New Nation, 27th November 2006)
An apology implies something was wrong with a past action. This is something that both the victim and perpetrator can use, manipulate into something greater and of future value.
There are many Africans in love with white people and their culture. What does it mean if they love a people who see no need to apologise for African mass murder at the hands of their institutions; Governments that via the use of law, classed Africans as less than human? These are institutions we empower to "educate" and culture our children - is it then no wonder that our children struggle, just like their African ancestors struggled, for a place in a racially structured world where they are regularly defined as lacking, last and of course, least?
Reparations is about us repairing the damage done to us. An apology would wake up those of us in love with a people and culture that suddenly decided to tell the truth about their historic racist history and nature.
Instead of us always being dammed it would be those who many of us worship for selfish spiritual/material blessings. An instant fix for Euro-centerd "blacks" who see no future in and with their own!!
Many would see an apology as a just and right thing to do - there would be no serious debate on such a, moral matter. But Dracula would never apologise for biting necks, for he is a vampire. What then are people who refuse to apologise for the blood-sucking (Nation Building) of their fathers?.
Those who suffered the Maafa are no longer here. Those who caused our ancestral suffering are also gone.
But those acts of cruelty and material enrichment were not about individuals but the institutions that operated them. Racism, lives!!
The British state that existed then, exists now. It's inability to state that a great wrong was done to a people via their use of state power is a direct, unambiguous statement on how they view racism and the victims they created and still create.
Blair said that racism drove slavery. For the British or any other European State to apologise for their role in The Maafa implies that Racism is wrong and must not remain a function of their Government as it was in the past; action is then implicit in any such statement.
Racism is alive and kicking within European dominated nation states and is an inherent part of their economic/social/political makeup. An apology would be close to revolutionary and is one reason why it is far from forthcoming.
"Researchers have only begun to look at this legacy, and I hope soon to be able to read a more sophisticated analysis. Woolman wrote of the slave trade and slavery that,
"a heavy account lies against us as a civil society for oppressions committed against people who did not injure us".
Injury still goes on. The legacy is alive. It is in all our institutions today."
Baroness Howells of St Davids (Labour) Hansard source
House of Lords
Thursday, 7 July 2005
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Friday December 1st, 2006 18:37 |
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Blair said it was hard to believe that slavery was legal.
Even though, well over a century later, Africans were still being killed for recreation and photographic post cards by descendants of British slavers in the Americas.
Why then, is it soo hard to believe a century before, crimes against African humanity in the Americas, was "legal?"
I guess some apologist will explain.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Friday December 1st, 2006 18:59 |
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As angry as we are that any apologies didn't go far enough, ministers and the gen public are upset that they were made at all. The revisionists in the history programmes have done their jobs well.
Next year will be a celebration of Wilberforce. A man who was an abolitionist not because he empathised with the Africans suffering but because he agonised over the effects on the soul of the white Europan perpetrating the vile acts. Can you imagine?
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Saturday December 2nd, 2006 09:08 |
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"I can't wait"
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Saturday December 2nd, 2006 18:58 |
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The Watcher wrote: As angry as we are that any apologies didn't go far enough, ministers and the gen public are upset that they were made at all. The revisionists in the history programmes have done their jobs well.
Next year will be a celebration of Wilberforce. A man who was an abolitionist not because he empathised with the Africans suffering but because he agonised over the effects on the soul of the white Europan perpetrating the vile acts. Can you imagine?
This is exactly what the state plans to express next year. How good the European has been, in reference to Africa and Africans (colonialism), this is the plan, unless they seriously revise their program (maybe Blacknet and Ligali as well as other African voices, might help them think twice).
There is no way they could talk about helping Africa and Africans "develop" today, and in the same breath, honestly deal with their past and present relationship with Africa and it's people- not unless a large degree of deceit and dishonesty is generously, employed.
The fact that masses of people are upset that the state has even thought about apologizing for what it has done, really illuminates the issue of the worth of "Black" life today in the minds of masses of people. How many Africans, are upset by the Government moving in such a manner, is for us more important - no doubt there are many Africans disturbed that a modern civilized white power government, would stoop soo low.
Contact with Europe, over the last few centuries has had such a negatively profound impact on African minds, that its impossible, not to see today's real, living, legacy.
For many of us, Crying for Princess Diana, is far safer and "relevant" than crying for millions of African people, murdered for sugar and cotton
.
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Sunday December 3rd, 2006 13:29 |
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Blair's Statement on Slavery
Published in New Nation, 27th November 2006
The transatlantic slave trade stands as one of the most inhuman enterprises in history. At a time when the capitals of Europe and America championed the Enlightenment of man, their merchants were enslaving a continent. Racism, not the rights of man, drove the horrors of the triangular trade. Some 12 million were transported. Some three million died.
Slavery's impact upon Africa, the Caribbean, the Americas and Europe was profound. Thankfully, Britain was the first country to abolish the trade. As we approach the commemoration for the 200th anniversary of that abolition, it is only right we also recognise the active role Britain played until then in the slave trade. British industry and ports were intimately intertwined in it. Britain's rise to global pre-eminence was partially dependent on a system of colonial slave labour and, as we recall its abolition, we should also recall our place in its practice.
It is hard to believe that what would now be a crime against humanity was legal at the time. Personally I believe the bicentenary offers us a chance not just to say how profoundly shameful the slave trade was - how we condemn its existence utterly and praise those who fought for its abolition, but also to express our deep sorrow that it ever happened, that it ever could have happened and to rejoice at the different and better times we live in today.
The people who fought against slavery came from all walks of life. They included slaves and former slaves like Olaudah Aquiano, church leaders, statesmen like William Wilberforce and countless ordinary citizens who signed petitions, marched, lobbied and prayed for change. The bicentenary is an opportunity for us all to remember those who were bought and sold into slavery and those who struggled against its injustices.
Community, faith and cultural organisations, with the support in many cases of the Heritage Lottery Fund, are already planning events to mark the bicentenary. We in Government, with local authorities, will be playing our full part. And the UK is co-sponsoring a resolution in the UN General Assembly, put forward by Caribbean countries, which calls for special commemorative activities to be held by the United Nations to mark the occasion.
We also need, while reflecting on the past, to acknowledge the unspeakable cruelty that persists in the form of modern day slavery. Today slavery comes in many guises around the world - such as bonded labour, forced recruitment of child soldiers and human trafficking - and at its root is poverty and social exclusion.
We also need to respond to the problems of Africa and the challenges facing the African and Caribbean diaspora today. Africa, of course, is a place of great beauty, fantastic diversity and a resilient and talented people with enormous potential. It is also the only continent getting poorer and where, in many places, life expectancy is falling.
But the world is now focussing, not least because of the G8 summit and the Make Poverty History campaign, on how we can help Africa tackle its problems. Agreement was reached to double aid to Africa by 2010, to write off the debts of the poorest countries and massively to increase funding to tackle AIDS and improve healthcare and education.
Britain is playing its full part both through increasing bilateral aid and through international leadership. The International Finance Facility for Immunisation, which we have launched, should save five million children a year.
All this is making a difference. Debt relief is already beginning to flow. It has, for example, enabled Zambia to scrap charges for health care. This is taking place in partnership with African Governments and their people. But there is a great deal more to do.
At home, the bicentenary is also an opportunity for us to pause and consider the enormous contribution today of Black African and Caribbean communities to our nation. Britain is richer in every way - for example, in business, politics, sport, the arts and science - because of the part played by these communities in every aspect of our national life. But even 30 years after Labour introduced the groundbreaking Race Relations Act and set up the Commission for Racial Equality, there are still barriers to overcome before everyone can make the most of their talents and potential.
Across government, we are investing in tackling inequality in education, health, employment, housing and the criminal justice system. I want to see a future in which everyone can achieve their full potential. Earlier this week, a group of young people from Bristol, Hull and Liverpool visited the capital at the invitation of the Deputy Prime Minister and I know that our schools and colleges will play a big role in next year's commemorations and legacy events.
This bicentenary must also be a spur for us to redouble our efforts to stop human trafficking and all forms of modern slavery.
But, above all, this 200th anniversary of the abolition of the slave trade is a chance for all of us to increase our understanding of the heritage we share, celebrate the richness of our diversity and increase our determination to shape the world with the values we share.
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Saturday December 9th, 2006 17:02 |
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Reparations issue discussed seriously on 7 December 2006 here and here. (Warning: Essential listening)
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 14:34 |
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Global African resistance movement attacks Blair slavery apology
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 14:51 |
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I can't stand these negro politicians who believe we are now on this level playing field where we all hold hands with greys to denounce slavery. As a representative from BLINK said, do not let this detract from the issue of reparations and the bigger issue of the legacy of slavery.
And if I hear one more ni$$er (including the black ones) talk about Africans are to blame for selling their own then let me say this one more time, in all the world's wars and world attrocities, sellouts have been hung, drawn and quartered for espionage, double-agency and treason - up to the other day 'Russia poisoned one'.
These Africans who indulged should be treated no diffrerently even now in retrospect, and before people go down the road of saying there was no common law at the time for such a blanket charge of treason to carry weight, then just like Blair and his blasted anti-terrorism laws, in the name of peace and justice make the damned laws up as you go along.
If the jews can get back what the Germans stole from them then what's the difference. The only difference is they know they can get away with that sh!t with a people who collectively don't know their arse from their elbow. The only difference is the Jews are united! But then I guess that is Blairs biggest fear, offer us Africans some money and we'd be united quicker than a rabbit gets f****d!...while foaming at the mouth mumbling I'm an African we'd all be tracing our roots and our ancestry as far back to a single blade of grass on the motherland....yep, David Lammy as well!
Last edited on Monday December 11th, 2006 15:08 by Incognito
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Tuesday December 12th, 2006 18:00 |
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Britain's 'apology' for slavery just not enough - Professor Rex Nettleford, Jamaica
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Apedemak
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