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| Moderated by: The Watcher, Saida.M, safetyblitz, Raven, Miss Brighter Days, LadyDay, Kunjufu, Kibibi, Happiness, Dillinger, Breadfruit, Backatya |
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 16:38 |
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as a continuation of the logic of the, we sold ourselves into slavery posse
did africans through their need to enrich themselves and through their ignorance of world trade and development
invite the rich colonial powers in so as to further sell their continent and its peoples?
as we all know, colonialism was (and still is) far more lucrative than the prior slave experience.
so this must have seemed a fantastic oppurtunity for the slave selling africans!
the floor is yours, the we sold our ownselves crew.......Last edited on Tuesday June 21st, 2005 17:44 by Breadfruit
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 16:55 |
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lets talk about the mass complicity of africans on the way to national independence
did africans say "we now need to enslave africans on african soil?
is this the reason, whites now feel the need to intervene in africas destiny because afrians have been backward politically for centuries?
the successful more civilised west are our only saviours?
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Backatya
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 17:06 |
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Breadfruit
Hi Bro, hope all is well with you.
Just a quickie from me as I am on my way out, but will have to return to this another time. But I think we must be careful when we look at our 'colonial' past not to get carried away with the thought that our ancestors rolled over meekly and let the white man ravish Africa.
Sure, it hurts and makes me mad as hell that they achieved what they did and that in certain quarters some of our own assisted (that assistance was probably crucial to them achieving their goal) but we are talking centuries of planning and scheming by the white man in his goal to plunder Africa. We are also talking hard fights and many battles on the part of our people to resist. The fact that we are here today with Africa the way it is sometimes make it hard to appreciate that it was not a case of our ancestors simply saying "Sure help yourself".
The thing that fills me with hope, is that nothing stays the same and, as hard as it may to be to believe, time will soon be called on the white man's dominance of Africa and African/black people.
Respect
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huskagee
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 17:07 |
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please elaborate your views...don't see how they invited the european colonists
nromally houseguest don't come to your house, empty your fridge, rape your wife and daughter, stay and repeating it over and over
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 17:32 |
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huskagee wrote:
please elaborate your views...don't see how they invited the european colonists
nromally houseguest don't come to your house, empty your fridge, rape your wife and daughter, stay and repeating it over and over
tell me something i dont know......
elaborate what?
let those who put profound emphasis
on africans selling africans for gain
now explain the role such people played in the rape of africa
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 17:40 |
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Backatya wrote:
Breadfruit
Hi Bro, hope all is well with you.
Just a quickie from me as I am on my way out, but will have to return to this another time. But I think we must be careful when we look at our 'colonial' past not to get carried away with the thought that our ancestors rolled over meekly and let the white man ravish Africa.
@backatya
peace soldier
you speak for me
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 19:24 |
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funny how posters who are so well informed about mass african complicity in slavery
centuries ago
are at present quiet about african history covering the last 100 years
makes you think about the origin of certain ideas among our race
or maybe its just that google 's currently down
these believers in a consistent theory
are searching for info to back up their version of events
my guess is that their story will change (education)
breadfruit waits..........Last edited on Tuesday June 21st, 2005 19:26 by Breadfruit
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Masai05
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 20:29 |
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The Question is:
as a continuation of the logic of the, we sold ourselves into slavery posse
did africans through their need to enrich themselves and through their ignorance of world trade and development
invite the rich colonial powers in so as to further sell their continent and its peoples?
as we all know, colonialism was (and still is) far more lucrative than the prior slave experience. so this must have seemed a fantastic oppurtunity for the slave selling africans! the floor is yours, the we sold our ownselves crew.......
My response is:
One of the aims of colonialization was control. These Euros carved up, created new boundaries, disrupted and set the ball into motion regarding Neo-Colonialism.
These very Slave selling Africans in their lack of insight, foresight and concern for national concerns left themselves open for the white onslaught. Mistakes were made and now the continent and its children are paying the price.
Being supplied by by these Euros allowed them to dictate modern military capabilities, strength, and create a reliance on them which made them easy pickings. Rifles versus Gatling Guns equalled Slaughter! Divided peoples based on ethnicity equalled fractured masses, the perfect recipe for occupation.
Now with the place purposely mismanaged, people purposely miseducated you now have the hyper economic component of the former colonial masters coming in and reassuming power through another form of indirect rule, assessing military strength, determining Health expenditures as well as education expenditures. Same game, nothing changed but titles. This same economic game plays out in the Caribbean.
Masai, Leader of the "We sold ourselves into Slavery Posse" 
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 21:18 |
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@ the posse leader
first things,
african documented as complicit in the holocaust
were not numerous enough
powerful enough
and more importantly not located throughout the continent with enough political power to allow the people at the berlin conference
to use them as conduits
much of africa did not supply slaves - their people were untouched by that horror
the argument about us selling our own has many of us intentionally thinking
"so, the white man must be right then
there must be something wrong with a race of people that would sell its own
into hell
both at home and abroad."
nah!
methinks there is something missing here.
slavery built europeans
damaged africa
colonialism built europeans
damaged africa (still is)
millions of africans have resisted these movements in history
from hati to zimbabwe
we have a history of resistance and african pride
but who writes history?
who educates the african?
who always places us as the inferior, the divided, the confused?
frantz fanon wrote about how the africans experience of himself has become totally distorted via our contact with the european.
for example, africans are de-humanised by their status
within white nations in diaspora
and in the main, this they accept
just like many accept african moral/intellectual inferiority
africans resisted colonialism just as they resisted slavery for we are human
we are not slaves or subjects
the power of our oppression lies within our oppresors ability to control our economies
and without effective counter measures, ideas and leaders
our futures become predictable
the slave becomes the commodity the african uses to buy food and other vital commodites.
the dollar, the requirement if we disire healthcare and decent shelter, transport
we migrate and help make the white mans homes even stronger - and then become a negro problem
this was never and is not the will of africans or africa
this history cannot be blamed on our will or disire to self determine; to have a future - make history
the religious will say its god will.
i say study the nature of powerful european nations that can impose their will (imperialism) on peoples
less well organised or resourced
we need to study power
study our history
then give this gift to our childrenLast edited on Tuesday June 21st, 2005 21:21 by Breadfruit
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tarhaka
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 21:26 |
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But I must own, to the shame of my own countrymen, that I was first kidnapped and betrayed by some of my own complexion, who were the first cause of my exile and slavery; but if there were no buyers there would be no sellers. Ottobah Cugoano, 1787
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 21:29 |
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tarhaka wrote: But I must own, to the shame of my own countrymen, that I was first kidnapped and betrayed by some of my own complexion, who were the first cause of my exile and slavery; but if there were no buyers there would be no sellers. Ottobah Cugoano, 1787
Yeah, but did u read what BF wrote? That shyt was deep. It deserves better than that weak ass response.
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Last edited on Tuesday June 21st, 2005 21:30 by Shariff
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 22:18 |
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@ the leader of the posse
apart from the slave selling part
your post was quite on point
full of correct detail
peace
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Masai05
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 22:29 |
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Breadfruit wrote:@ the posse leader
first things, african documented as complicit in the holocaust were not numerous enough powerful enough and more importantly not located throughout the continent with enough political power to allow the people at the berlin conference to use them as conduits much of africa did not supply slaves - their people were untouched by that horror the argument about us selling our own has many of us intentionally thinking
Not sure I can agree with you here, from my Black Studies training I have seen enough documentation to make a case, with specific groups at all reaches of the continent getting their hands very, very dirty. In regards to the berlin conference:
One of the aims of colonialization was control. These Euros carved up, created new boundaries, disrupted and set the ball into motion regarding Neo-Colonialism.
These very Slave selling Africans in their lack of insight, foresight and concern for national concerns left themselves open for the white onslaught. Mistakes were made and now the continent and its children are paying the price.
"so, the white man must be right then there must be something wrong with a race of people that would sell its own into hell both at home and abroad."
In regards to the White man being right... I really try not to listen to him, in fact I spend most of my time educating Black Children and Adults so that they avoid that path of destruction. The truth is many Black hands played a large role in slavery, FACT. But before we can work with each other we need to critically address this without people getting emotional so that we can study it, learn from it, plot a course toward the future and put the past behind us but in a way that we reflect on it to keep our focus.
nah! methinks there is something missing here. slavery:
built europeans
damaged africa
True! It also established some wealthy families in Africa as well as many wealthy Arabs.
colonialism:
built europeans
damaged africa (still is)
True! And the many Caribbean nations too!
millions of africans have resisted these movements in history
True, but unfortunately many have hindered it as well through a lack of holding honest dialogues and their aversive acts.
from hati to zimbabwe we have a history of resistance and african pride
Haiti is my personal favorite, the shining Star of Black resistance!
but who writes history? who educates the african? who always places us as the inferior, the divided, the confused?
Not sure how you Blacks do it in Africa, the Caribbean and the UK but in the USA we are always researching and writing our own history.
frantz fanon wrote about how the africans experience of himself has become totally distorted via our contact with the european.
This is true with Socializtion. Blacks have inherited the White image of ourselves. It is really unfortunate. As a Black educator when ever I get my hands on a social studies lesson plan from Africa and the Caribbean it makes me sick at how much they don't learn about themselves in so-called Black Nations, it speaks volumes in regards to who is really controlling their minds.
for example, africans are de-humanised by their status within white nations in diaspora and in the main, this they accept just like many accept african moral/intellectual inferiority africans resisted colonialism just as they resisted slavery for we are human we are not slaves or subjects
This goes back to what Real Brother keeps saying over and over and over regarding Black Self hatred and the belief in genetic inferiority. We can fight to be free only to end up in another spiderweb, did we ever get free?
the power of our oppression lies within our oppresors ability to control our economies and without effective counter measures, ideas and leaders our futures become predictable the slave becomes the commodity the african uses to buy food and other vital commodites. the dollar, the requirement if we disire healthcare and decent shelter, transport we migrate and help make the white mans homes even stronger - and then become a negro problem this was never and is not the will of africans or africa this history cannot be blamed on our will or disire to self determine; to have a future -
Now with the place purposely mismanaged, people purposely miseducated you now have the hyper economic component of the former colonial masters coming in and reassuming power through another form of indirect rule, assessing military strength, determining Health expenditures as well as education expenditures. Same game, nothing changed but titles. This same economic game plays out in the Caribbean.
make history the religious will say its god will.
Many of these religions have been our biggest enemy, they teach us to accept inferiority in hopes of a better life after life has ended.
i say study the nature of powerful european nations that can impose their will (imperialism) on peoples
I already have done this, the way to break free is to withhold our labor, give up luxury and manage off of necesities but some folks just ain't ready to let go. If we farm cocoa in ghana fo $1 a Kiligram, ship it to Europe and in return recieve Chocolate bars at grams and spend $1 for 1 gram we are idiots, if we withold our monies and make our own chocolate we have no use for them. Apply that priniciple to African imports/Exports and half the problem is solved.
less well organised or resourced we need to study power study our history then give this gift to our children
I agree, this is why most black men in the Diaspora need to get education in all fields, business, economics, Math, Sciences, engineering medicine and take a teaching course as to build the next generation of Black people.
We need to get as many people as possible in the "know" so that we can all do better -Tha Posse Leader
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rammcsnake
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Posted: Tuesday June 21st, 2005 23:08 |
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It is really important that we are able to recognize the kind of Blacks that are here today that helped the enslavery process in the past.
They are all over the place.
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Posted: Wednesday June 22nd, 2005 14:37 |
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Nice twist to the theme Breadfruit.. Im watching this one.
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Posted: Wednesday June 22nd, 2005 15:27 |
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@ Breadfruit
So very true. Nobody can deny the role of some Africans in the slave trade, this is often used to get Europeans of the hook, or cause divions and suspisons in the diaspora. We all must be aware that history is HIS STORY, the whiteman, like masai suggests we all should take an active role in researching and bringing information forward that's our various stories.
@Masai05
"I already have done this, the way to break free is to withhold our labor, give up luxury and manage off of necesities but some folks just ain't ready to let go. If we farm cocoa in ghana fo $1 a Kiligram, ship it to Europe and in return recieve Chocolate bars at grams and spend $1 for 1 gram we are idiots, if we withold our monies and make our own chocolate we have no use for them. Apply that priniciple to African imports/Exports and half the problem is solved."
"I agree, this is why most black men in the Diaspora need to get education in all fields, business, economics, Math, Sciences, engineering medicine and take a teaching course as to build the next generation of Black people."
Also true good stuff.
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Posted: Wednesday June 22nd, 2005 15:31 |
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I will never accept that Africans were at worst "knowingly/consciously" involved in the slave trade.
As has been alluded to over and over again on this thread these white boys have form. From slavery, to colonialism, to the lending of debt to poor countries at hyperinflated interest rates, to the lack of rights that black people in the diaspora only gained in some cases 20 or 30 years ago, to the classification of Aborigines in Australia as fauna (wildlife), to the stop searches we had to endure in the UK, to the jail sentences met out to blacks in the USA which bear no comparison to those for identical crimes committed by whites, to the proxy wars they have fought and the funding of destabilisation of many an African country, to their refusal to allow poor African nations to produce cheaper generic Aids drugs (even though richer western countries are allowed to do this, oh the irony), to the gold and riches they plundered from Africa which they then have the nerve to lend to us as loans!! to trade barriers erected against poor countries (while rich European countries remove barriers amongst themselves), to the constant treatment of us as social lepers, stereotyped as criminals, marginalised, and belittled as nothing more than hired help in McDonalds and JD Sports stores.
I could go on about the white man and his hatred off us but I would run out of paper/msg board to capture all the crap they have put us through
ITS BOLLOCKS TO BELIEVE FOR ONE MOMENT THAT WE WERE EVER A PART OF SLAVERY. There was only one perpatrator, and any involvement by Africans was minimal and due to ignorance of the big picture these honkeys had cooking for us.
Its just another example of the divide and conquer techniques used by them. If slavery was some sort of joint responsibility by whites and Africans, why does the UK government for example refuse to teach it in schools? why do they not step up to plate and say "oh we wont pay reparations nor apologise because slavery was a joint cause? Because they know they wouldnt have a leg to stand on if they suggested such fu*keries.
So what happens is they start to quietly disseminate info on how Africans were involved. And then they let us do the rest, which is start fighting amongst ourselves. You would never hear Jews nor Muslims supporting such divisive ideas where they have been wronged. But we seem to specialise in this nonsense.
There is only one perpetrator (and they cant even apologise for what they did to us). Hell even smokers are now able to sue for damages (which they inflict on themselves), and yet we will never be paid reparations for what was inflicted on us? And part of the reason for that is because we cant even agree amongst ourselves on the clear cut facts. I dont need to read any fancy history books to know that we were wronged full stop. And nor would I ever entertain such fanciful ideas about us being involved in atrocities against our own
Some whitey said "black people are like bottles, if you pour coke in them, they are a coke, if you pour fanta in them they are a fanta"
Go figure what that means, cause based on your "facts" about "history books" that suggest our involvement in slavery, and because of they way people swallow this crap from supposed historians, it just shows that we are truely the most manipulatable lost cause race on this entire planet
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Wednesday June 22nd, 2005 16:02 |
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newstyle wrote:
@ Breadfruit
So very true. Nobody can deny the role of some Africans in the slave trade, this is often used to get Europeans of the hook, or cause divions and suspisons in the diaspora. We all must be aware that history is HIS STORY, the whiteman, like masai suggests we all should take an active role in researching and bringing information forward that's our various stories.
@newstyle
greetings african
what you have raised is something at the heart of division amongst africans
millions of africans were murdered in this "trade"
human life, made cheap
africans in the diaspora, who have been fed the myth that africa sold them, will not identify with people or a land that has in their minds brought horror upon horror to them
some africans on the continent use HISstory, to define for themselves some kind of righteousness, based on the fact that they believe many africans ridded africa of inferior africans who are not worth identifying with
these messages are not african in origin and do not represent african interests
anyone who meditates on what has been done to our continent and our people will see this as true and fair
africans in diaspora are probably the only mass migrated people in recent history who have a sizable mass that do not relate to their home continent, in a positive way.
africans who have recently migrated and become part of the diaspora, are themselves talking about have these people a right to return or call africa home
our information systems are f***ed up!
and the oppressors laugh and say "they think they are thinking for themselves. what a beautiful system we have created!"
in this thread
i'm trying to express a profound message
if africans believe, africans sold their own (with great emphasis on their own) as has been clearly demonstrated for years here at blacknet and in the physical world
how far is the jump for us to believe that africans sold out the continent, and that we are as a race, a bunch of backward savages
how many of us, born in diaspora or on the continent, have not heard africans talking such mindless sh*t?
never mind white liberalsLast edited on Wednesday June 22nd, 2005 16:52 by Breadfruit
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Wednesday June 22nd, 2005 16:12 |
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@dzingi
african, welcome
great post warrior!
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Posted: Wednesday June 22nd, 2005 17:06 |
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| much respect Dzingi
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Posted: Thursday June 23rd, 2005 03:22 |
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Dzingi, seems you said something proufound, good job bro. More of that and we might actually save our besieged people. Only thing that is lacking is action, yet action start in the mind. So that's were we are starting
Now what people seem to forget is that we didn't exist, from the those sell out (in various ways) africans they don't think in terms of "we", they think of terms of them, even if them might be their neighbour. When africans were sodl they didn't think of we are selling our own, because the concept didn't exist. The funny part is that for example irish and scottish people were treated very badly (in sometimes the treatment was similiar to that of black people, they were even enslaved in some cases, wait they were) by the british but you don't hear white/european folks say that they treated their own badly. When white folks enslaved each other (and believe me they did as much as we did , yet diminished by the time we became available on the market) you don't hear the respective white folks saying that they sold each other. White folks would never let that divide them, never. So why do black people. Everybody think about, just think about it.
See ya later
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Auset
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Posted: Thursday June 23rd, 2005 14:34 |
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The issue regarding Africans sellling themselve sis an important one that needs to be addressed. Because there are alot of falsification that are manufactured that allow the whiteman to escape blame and for black people to feel they are the ultimate reason for their past and present situation.
Yes some African sold their own BUT no African economy was based on slavery.
Many Africans who did sell there own had a gun to their head if they didn't sell other Africans then they would be sold.
Slavery has existed in many societies, but the slave had as much rights as anyone else they could rise to high ranks etc the brutality of european slavery something completely different, i believe many African s who sold there own were ignorant of what they were selling there ppl into.
Whites sold ther own (they sold eastern europeans ) that is where the word slave comes from 'slav' yugoslavia etc. But they forgot to mention that.
In an atrocity you will always have traitors basically to save themselves, you think the Holocaust or the Iraqi war or any of the major atrocities in the world didn't take place without them.
If the white man came into your community and continued to raid your city and this went on for years , many would eventually cave into the pressure and sell there own to control the loss, i.e help enslave other communities etcc.
There was more resistance then compliance, there was resistance in Africa, there was resistance on the slave ships and there was continued resistance on the plantations.
Don't ever hlet the whiteman fool us , our problem is we have always been xenophilic, as some1 mentioned if there were no buyers there would be no sellors. Lets beleive the hypothetical scenario that it was a joint partnership were african also responsible for the way they were treated once they were in slavery, the rapes, sodomy, beaings, torture , lynchings, repeated abuse, treated like animals or worse, told they wern't human they had no souls to save, forced to follow a religion that would promote passivity and believee the whiteman to be god, banned from talking there own language , even using there own names, sold in markets like a piece of meat, children sold from the mums, fathers sold away from their wives. Well the whiteman fails to take resopnsibility for these things, or did aFRICAN DO THIS to themselves, they could have got up and walked but they liked living in such an existence.
Some 1 said they don't teach slavery in schools , they do but in such a way that makes black people feel ashamed and doesn't look at resistance, or psychological implications etc.. many black children i speak to think all black history is slavery, that is what they teach you, it was a trade and that is the beginning and end of your history the end result being that they civilised us.
Personally i don't think they should teach us our history, it is some thing we need to do, this is why we need our own schools.
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Masai05
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