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Ifasehun
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Posted: Friday June 10th, 2005 20:34 |
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Togo/Ghana/Benin -- Vodun/Mami Wata
................
Haiti -- Vodou (Voodoo)
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Yoruba - Orisa/Santeria etc..
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Africa/USA influences -- Orisa'Ifa
(try to practice as close to african as possible)
- A
frica/USA -- Anago
(try to practice as close to african as possible)
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USA/Africa -- Oyotunji
(will not accept any ethnicity except for African, including latinos etc. try to practice as close to african as possible)
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Cuba -- Lukumi /Santeria
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Brazil -- Candomble / Umbanda
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Trinidad -- Sango Baptiste
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Central Africa/Pan-American -- Kongo / Palo Mayombe
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Ghana/Togo -- Akan
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Nubia/Kemet (Egypt) -- Ausar Auset Society:
(A spiritual system that stems from "classical" African history, not "traditional" Africa for you history buffs. Resurrected in 70s/80s in USA, but has roots in Africa. Deemed only legitimate manifestation of Kemetic spirituality in world, as it is only system that can actually invoke and possess its priesthood with Kemetic deities and speak in ancient tongues during this period.)
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Caribbean/ Central Africa -- Obeah
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Domsta333
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Posted: Thursday July 21st, 2005 08:04 |
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hey man,
nubia/kemet? the nubians are muslims today yet im sure they kept some of it alive, it 's funny how they were never actually assimilated to arabic society like many of those who call themselves Sudanese Arabs down south. They seem to keep thier language and culture alive. you probably mean a 'neo-cult' of today right?
bye
Dom
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Ocacia
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Posted: Thursday July 21st, 2005 11:32 |
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Yes I have visited these Nubians and they (unlike the African pretending to be Arab in Sudan) are Strict African and Muslim. they speak Arabic but also speak Nubian and are proud of their African identity.
But not all Sudanese Africans think like this. especially if they traveled outside of Sudan they more than likely see themselves as African just like people from Ghana or Ethiopia.
We had this problem in the caribbean it is the legacy of enslavement, none have been spared.
p.s. there is a serious difference between classical and indigenous. Classical and traditional African religions include Islam and Abyssinian Christianity and Judaism as practiced by the (self exiled) falashas. Islam has been in Africa longer than it has been in Medina and obviously longer than in Turkey, Persia, Iraq and iran etc. So it is part of classical African (traditional) religions. And being a World religion the word indigenous doesnt really apply (that last bit is my opinion).
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Ifasehun
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Posted: Thursday July 21st, 2005 14:13 |
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Yes I have visited these Nubians and they (unlike the African pretending to be Arab in Sudan) are Strict African and Muslim. they speak Arabic but also speak Nubian and are proud of their African identity.
Most of the original Nubians were murdered off by the Arabs. The traditional Nubian people DO NOT prescribe to Islam, as their predecessors in Kemet were always enemies of Arabs and Islam, this is evidenced in certain Kemetic Deities that were invoked for one purpos: To protect Afrikans from the onslaught of Arabs.
But not all Sudanese Africans think like this. especially if they traveled outside of Sudan they more than likely see themselves as African just like people from Ghana or Ethiopia.
This point is interesting (although flawed) and has no relevance to the topic at hand.
We had this problem in the caribbean it is the legacy of enslavement, none have been spared.
p.s. there is a serious difference between classical and indigenous. Classical and traditional African religions include Islam and Abyssinian Christianity and Judaism as practiced by the (self exiled) falashas. Islam has been in Africa longer than it has been in Medina and obviously longer than in Turkey, Persia, Iraq and iran etc.
This board is rife with Islamic propoganda. Its okay to your thing, but attaching it to Afrika is troublesome. THere is a difference between classical and traditional Afrika. But Islam has nothing to do with either. There is no Afrikan history nor any modern evidence to suggest otherwise. In fact the only muslims who believe what you say are black and live outside of Afrika. Islam is a part of the root of division and curse upon ethnic war in Afrika. Its presence is foreign and problematic.
So it is part of classical African (traditional) religions. And being a World religion the word indigenous doesnt really apply (that last bit is my opinion).
Only indigenous faiths are correctly referred to when speakign on classical and traditional Afrikan religions. The "world religions" are not a part of such a list for several reasons, as for this post, because they are not spiritually balanced presentations of religion at all.
Please keep your Islamic bander in the Islam religious threads. There is no reason for the Muslims of this board to crowd out every single religious thread, even when it doesnt pertain to them.
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Omaar
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Posted: Thursday July 21st, 2005 23:26 |
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Ocacia
.s. there is a serious difference between classical and indigenous. Classical and traditional African religions include Islam and Abyssinian Christianity and Judaism as practiced by the (self exiled) falashas. Islam has been in Africa longer than it has been in Medina and obviously longer than in Turkey, Persia, Iraq and iran etc. So it is part of classical African (traditional) religions. And being a World religion the word indigenous doesnt really apply (that last bit is my opinion).
As a Muslim, I've been trying to tell people this very same thing for months since studying it....yet they won't listen.
Islam has been in Africa so long it IS traditional in most of it's societies.
I wish I had you another site to support this idea because I got banned from it for saying the very same thing.
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Ifasehun
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Posted: Thursday July 21st, 2005 23:46 |
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| Perhaps you got banned because its a lie and your lie perpetuates antagonism between Afrikans.
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Omaar
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Posted: Friday July 22nd, 2005 00:01 |
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Ifasehun
Perhaps you got banned because its a lie and your lie perpetuates antagonism between Afrikans.
YOU and people like you who are condeming everything except your personal concocted beliefs as white/arab/foregn brainwashing are doing more to perpertuate antagonism between "Afrikans" and divide us than anything else.
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Ocacia
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Posted: Saturday July 23rd, 2005 12:53 |
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Ifasehun wrote: Perhaps you got banned because its a lie and your lie perpetuates antagonism between Afrikans.
DEAR IFAEHUN
CLearly you are an idiot we know that from your reply to my message. You say someone is spread lies yet you have zero argument just silly childish regressive opinions.
My argument for Islam applied to Christians and Jews in Africa ok
Now have you been to Nubia? U flaming fake
Answer me these questions, where in Nubia did you go?
How many countries in Africa did you visit?
Take your hate that the White man gave you elsewhere because this a forum of religious tolerance. And Africa has always been religiously tolerant.
Arabs killed Nubians-
Dont u know Ancient Egyptians killed more Nubians than Arabs?
The Nubians I know first hand because i study that thing (PhD) are 100% Nubian and 100% Muslim by choice (like most African Muslims). Just like Christian Ethiopians chose that religion. You are a victim twice over a victim of ignorance and hate.
And when/if you reply you better bring some bloody facts because your old tired rhetoric has no place before knowledge. And yes Islam is a traditional African religion with a 1400 year "TRADITION IN AFRICA" nothing to do with if i am or aint a Muslim, because i am definately not a JEW and I said the same thing about Judaism in Ethiopia and Zimbabwe.
go back to Africa and learn something
The best thing is people like you have no voice in this world and hence it doesnt matter what you think or dont think.
Malcolm X, Cheik Diop, Mazuri, Farakhan to name a few are from Traditional African Islam
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Ocacia
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Posted: Saturday July 23rd, 2005 12:59 |
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God loves truth
and u r getting exposed
Because we know you copy and bloody paste this stuff and past it off like you know
Go to Nigeria and learn something useful mr Copy and paste and then tell us something new.
The mindset of hate is terriable because it isnt our Afrikan way. Muslims and Christians in Africa live in Peace for the greater part of their history. So we are all about love and respect and tolerance and look at you. talking about divide but being the one with teh "evil" toungue
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Ifasehun
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Posted: Saturday July 23rd, 2005 16:23 |
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No, in fact, you are exposing yourself. You and I know you have no Phd in any form of Afrikan History. Aside from this, there is more than enough evidence firsthand or by research to indicate that Muslims and Christians do not reside peacefully side by side.
The only distinction between Nubians and Arabs that need be made is that Nubians are the actual descendents of the builders of the Pyramids and the current "Egyptian" (who is really an Arab) are the enemies of the Nubians (who are the real owners of Egypt).
You calling me an idiot, does nothing except illuminate your INability to PRACTICE tolerance within the spirituality forum. Your words indicate that you are the slave of both ignorance and cultural subjugation.
The information above is all over the internet, because I put it there. As an initiated priest I invoke Orisa and Egun. My lineage and the "ase" that empoweres it links directly to Nigeria, not to Cuba or any other region of the world. I can recite the names of the persons before me, and those before them. Can you name the exact person and region of Afrika to whom your "afrikan islam" originates? Furthermore, please share with me the last time Allah appeared at your bequest in the presence of others? When you can do this, we are equal in spiritual evolution. Until them you venom is impotent.
Coming to this thread, to spread your Islamic propoganda is an awfully immature thing. There is an OVER abundance of vicious, evil minded, hateful, angry, confrontational threads started by others about the superiority of Islam here to last a lifetime. Why not congregate there and give the rest of us two inches of space to discuss our OWN issues? Or are we to believe the world and even something as mundance as "cyberspace" belong to you and you alone? Do you consider yourself better than us? More deserving than us? That would be a mistake.
Please pray tonight for clarity, cultural reorientation and peace in your heart for those that share the same ethnicity - that you are never again used by Arab or European interests to cause dissent or to muddle facts that lead to the truth about Afrikans. Ase.
Olokuntogun Ifasehun Ojedele
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Ifasehun
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Posted: Saturday July 23rd, 2005 16:29 |
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No sir. I am not saying its "my way or no way". I am saying AFrikan ways for Afrikans. You and I know this is my message and that my message is correct. The problem is that you are uncomfortable with yourself and your identity. In between cursing and name calling you have convinced yourself that between me and you, you have actually said something that would be pleasing to God. This is interesting and very telling. Even as you read this you know how foolish your efforts are. But your ego will compel you to write another post. I await it with less than mild enthusiasm. I am wondering if I need to start barging into your Islamic threads to illustrate how disruptive you are.
Please apply cool water on your face, head and neck. You are out of control.
Omaar wrote:
Ifasehun
Perhaps you got banned because its a lie and your lie perpetuates antagonism between Afrikans.
YOU and people like you who are condeming everything except your personal concocted beliefs as white/arab/foregn brainwashing are doing more to perpertuate antagonism between "Afrikans" and divide us than anything else.
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Domsta333
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Posted: Sunday July 24th, 2005 09:31 |
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hey ppl,
what are the names of the east african faiths? none of these were passed on to my islands (Reunion, Mauritius and Seychelles) except some rites cafres(from Kafir in arabic which was used to describe non-believers of Islam in southern Africa;an insult also) in La Réunion.
Ifasehun have you met any of the agudas(repatriated Afro-Latinos) in Lagos. Do they follow Orisa?
Bye
Dom
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Omaar
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Posted: Sunday July 24th, 2005 14:04 |
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Ifasehun
No sir. I am not saying its "my way or no way". I am saying AFrikan ways for Afrikans. You and I know this is my message and that my message is correct. The problem is that you are uncomfortable with yourself and your identity. In between cursing and name calling you have convinced yourself that between me and you, you have actually said something that would be pleasing to God. This is interesting and very telling. Even as you read this you know how foolish your efforts are. But your ego will compel you to write another post. I await it with less than mild enthusiasm.
Please apply cool water on your face, head and neck. You are out of control.
....this from a guy who claims Hinduism is an African religion.
If you really believed in "Africa for the Africans" then you wouldn't mind what religion they practiced as long as they were African; but you continually condemn religions and religous people who aren't in line with your personal beliefs.
I may use vulgar (common/street) language but I don't curse, I leave that up to the pagans and their other pagan victims to wallow in darkness together.
I am wondering if I need to start barging into your Islamic threads to illustrate how disruptive you are.
If you can do it without being banned....then by all means.
The only thing that will happen is you'll be FURTHER exposed for the fraud you are and you'll end up exiting in embarassment anyway.
For all I know you and these other anti-Islamist I keep running into on every black website are probably just spies and agents from the government; yall didn't exist prior to 9/11....now you're all over the place trying to pull us away from Islam.
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Ocacia
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Posted: Sunday July 24th, 2005 16:10 |
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listen fool
Send your email so i can fax you a copy of my PHD
you ignorant person with text book knowledge. Question if you are so smart
where did you get your information?
U been to Sudan yet?
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Ocacia
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Posted: Sunday July 24th, 2005 16:20 |
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Take a look at these thread and see the hostility and racism this person has waged against peaceful people adding to the discussion. Africa what.
Islam is older than Orisha in Africa my friend
Stay there with your anger
Read the threads and see where the wickness started look at how you replied to Omar and me. Take a look at the evidence. How can African unite with the likes of you. You notice we welcolm you thread and your religion as part of the African family. but you have done nothing but attack people you dont know.
Please answer my question.
HAVE YOU BEEN TO SUDAN?
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN AFRICA?
send you email so i can show you my Degrees plural my friend
we represent unity and you are a waste and a disgrace to those African religions. Never in any of these threads can you show any of us insulting, these religions but look at you.
And yes you noise has gone far enough because people like you live mon-friday as kevin and then become Kwame on the weekend. you read 3 books and think you know something-mayb i am wrong but the mindset is obviously lacking in true knowlegde. Now take those cut and paste things you posted and get a ticket to Africa and when you go there drop the hate, and learn. U keep ranting 2 people that dont know any better, that cant reply with facts, but what do you have to say?
Again i asked have you ever meet a Nubian?
Do you speak Arabic or Nubian? (to know what you know)
what is your knowlegdge base.
i physically lived on Elephantine Island my friend, lived with these people.. And youtalking from some web page you copied and pasted. Send your email i will show you my bloody doctorate. or email me via our website http://www.africanholocaust.net and ask for Ocacia Askia
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Ifasehun
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Posted: Wednesday July 27th, 2005 15:26 |
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| The two of you are full of incredible rage. This is sad. The Arab has made you the mortal enemy of your own brothers and sisters. Again, pray for clarity and cultural reorientation (and the things that you believe only you know about your lives will improve).
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afrikanwarriorzumbi2020
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Posted: Friday July 29th, 2005 16:14 |
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Ocacia and Omaar,have question for both of you,why dont you both post stuff about
pre islamic black africa, nobody here,have posted stuff on pre islamic black africa,and dear Ocacia,if you read and study,you will also find out that pre islamic africa were diffrent than post islamic africa,read the suffix,pre( meaning before) post( meaning after) hope those two single clues help you out* wink,wink*
Omaar,you are cool kat man,but lol you also evaded my question like drunk monkey,when i asked drunk monkey to post stuff about pre islamic black africa and not post,ahhh this is gonna make you laugh man,some member here called ethiopia,arabs,in the section of what you think about black americans,little does she know that i am million of light years ahead of her,one friend of mine,just so happen to east afrikan laughed at her ignorance aka rolling rock   
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Omaar
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Posted: Friday July 29th, 2005 21:38 |
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Afrikan
The reason I don't post much on pre-Islamic Africa is because in my opinion besides the Islamic kingdoms of Ghana, the Moors, and Songhai....the last days of TRUE African glory haven't been seen in nearly 2000 years.
The Axumite Empire under the great Neguses was the last true African empire ruled by great black men.
When Africa switched from a Patriarchal culture lead by powerful black men hell bent on conquering the world....we ruled the known world.
But when we switched to a Matriarchal culture based on warmth, acceptance, and peace...we got our asses kicked by everyone that came our way and ended up in the shape we're in today.
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Ocacia
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Posted: Saturday July 30th, 2005 00:33 |
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pre-islamic black Africa
what is that?
is there a white or green Africa?
i am giving up on this forum to be honest, i came here to share the work we do in our peoples liberation, and minus a few there is a mixture of confusion (people who speak outside of their own history) and then the confused(those in denial).
read my post on kemet and nubia
the european hates Islam and the cultural orphans follow their master in their hate. did u knw they use to take literate Muslims out of enslaved communities when they got to America? y?
i ask what Arab brough Islam to West Africa? And who conveted the Arabs 2 Islam?
i have always found a relationship between lack of knowledge and so-called Afrocentrics, it is amazing because the founders of all these things know the truth Williams, Asante, et all. so who r u reading from?
look around @ who is doing and has done the work.... just take a look @ history and get back to me. and dont even start with x, start with Sundiata and work your way foward, please include Dioup and Mazuri.
Last edited on Saturday July 30th, 2005 00:45 by Ocacia
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Ocacia
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Posted: Saturday July 30th, 2005 00:39 |
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let me leave this forum with some homework that u might find dsturbing
since u want to look at pre and post. go and study Africa pre and post Bantu and xplain y Bantu is so widespread in Africa fom being a minority group 2000 years ago.
explain dat pre and post
60 % of Africas last greatest empires were Islamic, so After kemet the nex great epoch was the Islamic era and kids how do u think u know the history of west Africa? please think, how do you know west and east African history? do u really think it is just oral tradition. truth needs no defender it is clear 4 the honest to find. and that is y i dont bother about defending Islam, Judasim or anything because above religion and race is truth.
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Ocacia
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Posted: Saturday July 30th, 2005 00:42 |
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Ifasen
i didnt receive the email from you yet? wots up? u need proof of my qualification dont u?
info@africanholocaust.net
and yeah, u been to Africa yet?
keeping your mind locked only hurts u and yours.
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Domsta333
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Posted: Saturday July 30th, 2005 05:58 |
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hey yoz,
plz keep to the topic(talk about candomblé or lukumi or even obeah)..yeh...anyone know about hoodoo? is it african based?
if we're just gonna talk about Islam then change the topic or create a new one ok. coz these arguments are gonna go on forever  i'm sure we can all learn something.
peace (salaam)
Dom
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Sit al-Banal
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Posted: Monday August 8th, 2005 18:16 |
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Ifasehun are these the beliefs that will bring back "Black Peoples Spirituality"?
Vodun/Mami Wata
Vodou (Voodoo)
Orisa/Santeria
Kongo / Palo Mayombe
Akan
Ausar Auset Society
2. Can these also explain why we are in the state that we're in?
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Posted: Saturday October 1st, 2005 19:47 |
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Ifasehun wrote: Togo/Ghana/Benin -- Vodun/Mami Wata
................
Haiti -- Vodou (Voodoo)
................
Yoruba - Orisa/Santeria etc..
- Africa/USA influences -- Orisa'Ifa
(try to practice as close to african as possible)
- Africa/USA -- Anago
(try to practice as close to african as possible)
- USA/Africa -- Oyotunji
(will not accept any ethnicity except for African, including latinos etc. try to practice as close to african as possible)
- Cuba -- Lukumi /Santeria
- Brazil -- Candomble / Umbanda
- Trinidad -- Sango Baptiste
................
Central Africa/Pan-American -- Kongo / Palo Mayombe
................
Ghana/Togo -- Akan
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Nubia/Kemet (Egypt) -- Ausar Auset Society:
(A spiritual system that stems from "classical" African history, not "traditional" Africa for you history buffs. Resurrected in 70s/80s in USA, but has roots in Africa. Deemed only legitimate manifestation of Kemetic spirituality in world, as it is only system that can actually invoke and possess its priesthood with Kemetic deities and speak in ancient tongues during this period.)
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Caribbean/ Central Africa -- Obeah
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Who were the NOMMO?
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Katambe
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Posted: Sunday October 2nd, 2005 11:07 |
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Omaar wrote:
Ocacia
.s. there is a serious difference between classical and indigenous. Classical and traditional African religions include Islam and Abyssinian Christianity and Judaism as practiced by the (self exiled) falashas. Islam has been in Africa longer than it has been in Medina and obviously longer than in Turkey, Persia, Iraq and iran etc. So it is part of classical African (traditional) religions.
As a Muslim, I've been trying to tell people this very same thing for months since studying it....yet they won't listen.
Islam has been in Africa so long it IS traditional in most of it's societies.
I wish I had you another site to support this idea because I got banned from it for saying the very same thing.
I'm a ghan in USA, and I can't beleive any pretense of what you are saying. Well, okay if we started as Muslim, we definetly are not impoverished to its views in the present day.
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Ifasehun
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Posted: Monday October 3rd, 2005 21:11 |
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There are no people called "Nommo". Nommo is a spiritual concept based in the power of Word. It is derived from the Dogon. The most famous and reputable book on Dogon spirituality is called
Conversations with Ogotomelli. It based intirely on conversations with an Dogon Priest. All other books are based on western intellectualism, with is inadequate basis for this kind of conversation.
As for the individual that asks, "what state are we in?" Who is "we"?? Be more specific.
Lastly, there is no such thing as "being in Africa so long that its traditional." Islam, Christianity and Judiasm are the mortal enemies of Traditional Afrikan spirituality. Always have, always will be, which makes them the natural enemy of Afrikan survival as well. Period.
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Omowalejabali
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Posted: Tuesday October 4th, 2005 01:02 |
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Ifasehun wrote: There are no people called "Nommo". Nommo is a spiritual concept based in the power of Word. It is derived from the Dogon. The most famous and reputable book on Dogon spirituality is called
Conversations with Ogotomelli. It based intirely on conversations with an Dogon Priest. All other books are based on western intellectualism, with is inadequate basis for this kind of conversation.
As for the individual that asks, "what state are we in?" Who is "we"?? Be more specific.
Lastly, there is no such thing as "being in Africa so long that its traditional." Islam, Christianity and Judiasm are the mortal enemies of Traditional Afrikan spirituality. Always have, always will be, which makes them the natural enemy of Afrikan survival as well. Period.
I am aware as to the Dogon belief concerning the Nommo. I asked the question because I noticed there was no mention of the Dogon in your original forum post. Thanks for the reference.
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