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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Friday June 10th, 2005 14:31 |
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ZIMBABWE
KINGDOM OF THE SHONA
PROLOGUE
Time and space encapsulate a void in which an entire civilization can be lost for centuries. The Shona Empire encompassed the land mass of Zimbabwe, Botswana and South Africa. The cities of Mapungubwe, Thelamela and Great Zimbabwe were thriving commercial cities. Commercial traders transported their goods on the Shashe and Limpopo Rivers. These waterways connected the Shona with African east coast commercial trading centers which networked into the markets of India and China. The Shona people built hundreds of cities of stone, crowded with three story apartment complexes, housing tens of thousands of people. They tended vast herds of cattle and grew rich as the cattlemen of Africa. The history of Zimbabwe would be hidden from European perception until the twentieth century. This was the Shona Empire.
MAP OF AFRICA
THE KINGDOM OF THE SHONA
THE KINGDOM OF THE SHONA
TIMELINE OF THE SHONA STATES
Indigenous people called the San.
Shepherd nomads - the Khoi - move south from Western Africa. Society develops iron metallurgy, agriculture and cattle herding.
1 A.D. - 300 A.D.
Commercial activities include: gold mining, trade in copper, salt, cloth, ivory and cattle.
800 A.D.
Approximately 500 stone cities are built throughout Zimbabwe, Botswana, Mozambique and South Africa, including the cities of Mapungubwe, Thulamela, Torwa and Great Zimbabwe. The most elaborate city was Great Zimbabwe.
800 - 1600 A.D.
The city of Mapungubwe (named the Jackal after a leader) was one of the first settlements. Mapungubwe was home to thousands of farmers who raised cattle. By 1175, Mapungubwe was the capital of a commercial trading complex that extended to the African east coast commercial trading routes. A citizen of Mapungubwe would have found himself/herself to be part of a very structured society with a royal elitist class. In the twelfth century, drought conditions made cattle raising impossible forcing the inhabitants to migrate northward. It was a characteristic of the Shona that they packed up and headed to new settlements every two or three hundred years. They were to found more than three hundred settlements in Zimbabwe.
The largest of the stone walled settlements (called zimbabwes) was erected at Great Zimbabwe. The wealth of Shona cities was derived from excising tariffs on trade routes and the sale of their cattle.
THE WALLED CITY OF GREAT ZIMBABWE
THE CITY OF GREAT ZIMBABWE
OUTER WALLS
LUXURY TWO-THREE STORY APARTMENT COMPLEX
CORRIDOR WALLS SECTIONING THE CITY
MYSTERY TOWERS
The Shona built massive walled cities without utilizing a straight line, right angle or rectangle. Architecture was designed with curves. The round homes would nestle against the rounded outer walls in a perfect fit. In this manner, not a precious square inch of area would be lost. The walls were built from stones taken from nearby hills. Great rocks were cut using torches and then chiseled into blocks. Building blocks fitted so perfectly that mortar was not needed to hold the walls in place.The Shona used curved walls inside the city to section off living areas.
Great Zimbabwe contained eighteen thousand people. Royalty lived within the city walls, farmers and workers lived outside. A Shona home would be thirty feet across, a two-three story building, with thick walls colored in red. Homes were packed together so they touched one another. At night, the cooking fires would create a smog over the city. The Shona traded in gold, ivory, beads, cloth, salt and cattle. The Shona built circular towers. The function of these towers remain a mystery. The towers were not used for observation or security concerns. They may have been built for aesthetic purposes or they may be spiritual homes of past nobles.
In the sixteenth century, environmental degradation took its toll on the Shona cities. By the seventeenth century, plagued by overpopulation and lack of clean water, all new construction stopped.
The state of Rhodesia officially changed its name to Zimbabwe in honor of the commercial center of the Shona civilization - Great Zimbabwe - the lost city of Africa.
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The Watcher Villager

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Posted: Friday June 10th, 2005 14:40 |
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Agree wholeheartedly with you "enough with egypt" sentiments. Not that I don't care about Egypt but sometimes I think "black" history gets dominated by it to the detriment of learning about the rest of us. We all get wrapped up in pyramids and Pharohs but what about the rest of Africa??
Good on you Aryek for taking the initiative
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Friday June 10th, 2005 15:00 |
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Thank you, DM. But really I'm getting tired of all these Egypt threads. Don't get me wrong I love Egypt, the pyramids are beautiful, but I think that we focus too much on the Empire sometimes. It's shameful that so many of us have never heard of these Sub-Saharan empires, yet we know all there is to know about Egypt. The Shona empire has just as many beautiful stone structures as Egypt and their history is even more relevant to our history yet we spend more time talking about Egypt than the Shona. I think it's time that we start giving these empires the respect and attention they deserve.
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Friday June 10th, 2005 15:17 |
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Ruins of Great Zimbabwe:


National Monument of Great Zimbabwe

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The Watcher Villager

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Posted: Friday June 10th, 2005 15:34 |
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I've been there Aryek
The top picture you posted, I remember walking down that path... It's a very spooky place LOL Don't know if you can get a sense of perspective there but the walls are very tall and steep and close together so walking between them you are overwhelmed by the place.
Also it's out in the bush towards past lake kyle (if I remember right) and far from any major towns... it's proper in the bush... quiet and eerie, the only noise is the crickets and that bird you hear everywhere in africa.
There are of course a few shops nearby where you can buy artifacts and so on and a Muti man but I don't remember any sizeable villages about, it's Isolated as hell in the hills
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Burning Spear Villager

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Posted: Friday June 10th, 2005 18:54 |
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Excellent post.I'm GOGGLE'ing now
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Friday June 10th, 2005 21:34 |
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Mapungubwe: SA's lost city of gold
23 September 2004
One thousand years ago, Mapungubwe in Limpopo province was the centre of the largest kingdom in the sub-continent, where a highly sophisticated people traded gold and ivory with China, India and Egypt.
The Iron-Age site, discovered in 1932 but hidden from public attention until only recently, has been declared a World Heritage Site by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (Unesco).
Mapungubwe was one of 24 sites around the world added to Unesco's World Heritage List in July 2003, bringing to five the number of South African sites that have been awarded World Heritage status. Lucille Davie pays a visit to the "place of the stone of wisdom", home to South Africa's first kingdom - and finds herself unprepared for its historical potency and natural beauty. In its statement on the listing, Unesco describes Mapungubwe as the centre of the largest kingdom in the sub-continent before it was abandoned in the 14th century.
"What survives are the almost untouched remains of the palace sites and also the entire settlement area dependent upon them, as well as two earlier capital sites, the whole presenting an unrivalled picture of the development of social and political structures over some 400 years," Unesco said.
Mapungubwe was home to an advanced culture of people for the time – the ancestors of the Shona people of Zimbabwe. They traded with China and India, had a flourishing agricultural industry, and grew to a population of around 5 000.
Mapungubwe is probably the earliest known site in southern Africa where evidence of a class-based society existed (Mapungubwe's leaders were separated from the rest of the inhabitants).
Gold, copper, exotic beads ...
The site was discovered in 1932 and has been excavated by the University of Pretoria ever since. The findings were kept quiet at the time since they provided contrary evidence to the racist ideology of black inferiority underpinning apartheid.
Nevertheless, the university now has a rich collection of artefacts made of gold and other materials, as well as human remains, discovered there. According to the University of Pretoria's Mapungubwe website, "Subsequent excavations revealed a court sheltered in a natural amphitheatre at the bottom of the hill, and an elite graveyard at the top – with a spectacular view of the region.
"Twenty-three graves have been excavated from this hilltop site", the website continues. "The bodies in three of these graves were buried in the upright seated position associated with royalty, with a variety of gold and copper items, exotic glass beads, and other prestigious objects.
"These finds provide evidence not only of the early smithing of gold in southern Africa, but of the extensive wealth and social differentiation of the people of Mapungubwe."
The most spectacular of the gold discoveries is a little gold rhinoceros, made of gold foil and tacked with minute pins around a wooden core. The rhino, featured in one of South Africa's new national orders - the Order of Mapungubwe - has come to symbolise the high culture of Mapungubwe. The rhino is also a symbol of leadership among the Shona people of Zimbabwe.
Other artefacts made in similar fashion include the Golden Sceptre and the Golden Bowl, found in the same grave on Mapungubwe Hill.
Evidence of complex social formations
What is so fascinating about Mapungubwe is that it is testimony to the existence of an African civilisation that flourished before colonisation. According to Professor Thomas Huffman of the archaeology department at the University of the Witwatersrand, Mapungubwe represents "the most complex society in southern Africa and is the root of the origins of Zimbabwean culture".
Between 1200 and 1300 AD, the Mapungubwe region was the centre of trade in southern Africa. Wealth came to the region from ivory and later from gold deposits that were found in Zimbabwe. The area was also agriculturally rich because of large-scale flooding in the area. The wealth in the area led to differences between rich and poor.
In the village neighbouring Mapungubwe, called K2, an ancient refuse site has provided archaeologists with plenty of information about the lifestyles of the people of Mapungubwe.
According to the University of Pretoria website: "People were prosperous, and kept domesticated cattle, sheep, goats and dogs. The charred remains of storage huts have also been found, showing that millet, sorghum and cotton were cultivated.
"Findings in the area are typical of the Iron Age. Smiths created objects of iron, copper and gold for practical and decorative purposes – both for local use and for trade. Pottery, wood, ivory, bone, ostrich eggshells, and the shells of snails and freshwater mussels, indicate that many other materials were used and traded with cultures as far away as East Africa, Persia, Egypt, India and China."
Mapungubwe's fortune only lasted until about 1300, after which time climate changes, resulting in the area becoming colder and drier, led to migrations further north to Great Zimbabwe.
Transfrontier park
Plans are afoot for the establishment of a transfrontier park encompassing parts of South Africa, Zimbabwe and Botswana. This would link the newly created Mapungubwe National Park with Botswana's Tuli Block and the Tuli Safari area of Zimbabwe. SouthAfrica.info reporter
Last edited on Friday June 10th, 2005 21:36 by Aryek
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Friday June 10th, 2005 21:48 |
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Archeological finds in Mapunguwe:


Examples of Gold Jewellery from the time
Mapungubwe's famous gold foil rhinoceros
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The Watcher Villager

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Posted: Sunday September 25th, 2005 23:19 |
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Hello again Aryek and all.
I just returned from Zimbabwe earlier today so I'll be boring you with a few pictures for a while...
I entered great Zimbabwe....

And after looking at the museum I climbed the high as hell acropolis. It's a mountain with a large stone fortress on top. It's quite a maze and you have to climb a steep staircase to get to it.
See it starts off ok...
But gets harder as you proceed up the side...
The walls of rock squeeze close together in places and it's intimidating.

Almost there now...
After huffing and puffing my way up there I entered the maze.
Yes this is really on the top of a big mountain. Don't ask me how they got all these stones up there *shrugs*

This hut is in the middle of the fortress ruins atop the mountain.

From the top of the mountain I could see the whole of the great enclosure which is the main attraction of the Zimbabwe ruins. Look how big it is.


I then went to the great enclosure.


And stood by the famous conical tower.


Check out this model of the great enclosure...

I definately recommend it 
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The Watcher Villager

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Posted: Sunday September 25th, 2005 23:24 |
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Off topic I know but about 700 km away in the north of the country by Vic falls I saw these you might like to see too.
A boat the ancients travelled the Zambezi on
A big wooden head. In fact I saw (and bought) a whole big bunch of art from all over but thats a next thread...
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New Age Warrior Villager
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Posted: Monday September 26th, 2005 17:37 |
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Keep it going!

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Posted: Monday September 26th, 2005 20:33 |
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This is absoutely fantastic! Of course, we can NEVER say enough about Blessed Kmt (Egypt), but the same could be said about the Shona Empire, the history of Ethiopia, Mali/Songhai, and many others that I've not had a chance to learn about. This is great, can anyone suggest any books?
TutBes Sa Anbu
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New Age Warrior Villager
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Posted: Monday September 26th, 2005 20:43 |
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Funnily enough, I did an Amazon search after reading this bit of history and found absolute jack diddy.
Someone needs to write an illustrated book with the REAL history of Africa detailed in it along with pictures and drawings... any one up for it?
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Posted: Monday September 26th, 2005 21:27 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: Hello again Aryek and all.
I just returned from Zimbabwe earlier today so I'll be boring you with a few pictures for a while...
I entered great Zimbabwe....
And after looking at the museum I climbed the high as hell acropolis. It's a mountain with a large stone fortress on top. It's quite a maze and you have to climb a steep staircase to get to it.
See it starts off ok...
But gets harder as you proceed up the side...
The walls of rock squeeze close together in places and it's intimidating.
Almost there now...
After huffing and puffing my way up there I entered the maze.
Yes this is really on the top of a big mountain. Don't ask me how they got all these stones up there *shrugs*
This hut is in the middle of the fortress ruins atop the mountain.
From the top of the mountain I could see the whole of the great enclosure which is the main attraction of the Zimbabwe ruins. Look how big it is.
I then went to the great enclosure.
And stood by the famous conical tower.
Check out this model of the great enclosure...
I definately recommend it
YES DM SO WOULD I, THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PLACE IN THE WORLD AND GUESS WHAT..........IT WAS BUILT ON MY OPINIONS......LOL
I AM SO PROUD TO BE ZIMBABWEAN, DESPITE OUR PROBLEMS, WE ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE!
Last edited on Tuesday September 27th, 2005 05:11 by ohgollyWTF
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Geoff Villager

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Posted: Monday September 26th, 2005 22:27 |
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@ ohgollyWTF and Drunkmonkey
I have had the pleasure and honour of visiting Great Zimbabwe and climbed up to the top....puffing and wheezing.
The African night was falling....but african nights dont really fall........ they plummet like a stone...unlike UK nights...darkness ambles down here.
So by the time we made the ascent ,it was time to get back down again.....I was told there were things to be seen up top...but alas no time to take a look,it seemed like the ascent was like a pilgrimage,I was pressed into doing it,and glad I did...but wished we had done it earlier in the day so as to see the Fort at the top.
The place does have an atmosphere,and the structures appear to be still very much intact amazingly,the alleyways or lanes are very claustrophobic,so narrow and so high above your head,a magical place indeed.
Strange that I saw Great Zimbabwe and Victoria falls on my short visit,but the most powerful memories are of the people,who welcomed me everywhere (most were relatives,or friends of relatives....by marriage) I was presented with several live chickens,a strange concept for a Londoner to grasp.
And strange memory number two?................ the smell of woodsmoke at sunset.
Thanks for the experience Zimbabwe.
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ohgollyWTF Villager
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Posted: Tuesday September 27th, 2005 00:18 |
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Geoff wrote: @ ohgollyWTF and Drunkmonkey
I have had the pleasure and honour of visiting Great Zimbabwe and climbed up to the top....puffing and wheezing.
The African night was falling....but african nights dont really fall........ they plummet like a stone...unlike UK nights...darkness ambles down here.
So by the time we made the ascent ,it was time to get back down again.....I was told there were things to be seen up top...but alas no time to take a look,it seemed like the ascent was like a pilgrimage,I was pressed into doing it,and glad I did...but wished we had done it earlier in the day so as to see the Fort at the top.
The place does have an atmosphere,and the structures appear to be still very much intact amazingly,the alleyways or lanes are very claustrophobic,so narrow and so high above your head,a magical place indeed.
Strange that I saw Great Zimbabwe and Victoria falls on my short visit,but the most powerful memories are of the people,who welcomed me everywhere (most were relatives,or friends of relatives....by marriage) I was presented with several live chickens,a strange concept for a Londoner to grasp.
And strange memory number two?................ the smell of woodsmoke at sunset.
Thanks for the experience Zimbabwe.
@Geoff
I am so homesick right now, you have no idea, , folks can say what they want, but zim people have good hearts, we've had refugees, but they were part of us, nobody made a big deal of it, we are hospitable people, there is a Ndebele saying that i cannot translate into English, least it be taken the wrong way, to be inhospitable in my country is sacrilegious, you just do not do it.
Geoff, i am sure i do not have to tell you how much of a pleasure it was for your in laws to host you.., bet they are always asking when you are coming back. And that my friends, is the Zimbabwean experience.
Last edited on Tuesday September 27th, 2005 00:56 by ohgollyWTF
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Tru-Afri-Can Villager

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Posted: Tuesday September 27th, 2005 01:08 |
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I regret not visiting these historical sites when i was in Zimbabwe a few years ago. I was more interested in the nightclubs then! Hopefully i'll get a second chance.
Some facts i got from a wonderful book: INDABA, MY CHILDREN by Credo Mutwa (Payback Press).
Zimbabwe is rightfully Zima-Mbje meaning structure of stone.
Monomotapa as in 'The ruins of the Monomotapa Empire (15th century Zimbabwe), should really be Munumutaba meaning man of the big mountains.
These european pronunciations have to be cleared already!!!!!
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Masai05 Villager

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Posted: Tuesday September 27th, 2005 01:54 |
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I'm feeling this thread. I'm sick of Egypt! Sick and Fukk and Tired of it! We already know everything there is to know about it. This is why I keep mentioning Ghana, Mali and Songhai! Many people don't seem to care to learn about empires that whites can't stake a claim to; even though they tried to say that the Vikings built the Shona empire, LMAOOOO!
No one talks about Axum, I can't find too much about Punt. We need to focus on other areas for real!
That's why I'm feeling this one!
Peace
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starphoenix Villager
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Posted: Tuesday September 27th, 2005 02:53 |
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Aryek,
r there any decent museums in zimbabwe coz i went to one in bulawayo and it was crap. it had more history on the white people's colonisation than black historical figures in zimbabwe. and to add insult to injury, there was a statue of cecil rhodes.
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Posted: Tuesday September 27th, 2005 05:02 |
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@starphoenix
Unfortunately there are no decent museums in Zim that focus on the history of Zimbabean people. That silly Natural History Museum in Surburbs, Bulawayo is all there is. If the govt had to fund the building of a new museum that tells the history of all the people of Zimbabwe, mainly the Shona and the Ndebele, they would need a curator that is totally impartial so that non of the aforementioned groups dominates the other. Yes, that museum in Bulawayo is embarassing, especially since they have had 25 years to do something about it. I am not excusing the presence of CJR's statue, unfortunately he is a part of our history as well, but he should not be the centre peice.
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Posted: Tuesday September 27th, 2005 19:43 |
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Those pictures and text are inviting. I wanted to ask I see the ground and somewhat the wall of the Great Zimbabwe covered in reddish earth. Is that common in that region? I remember I saw pictures of nomadic people in Southern Africa covered as in pasted to skin in this reddish earth and wonder if this was common. Also I saw a special about a people from that region I think its the Lemba and they did DNA test on some of the people there and said they have the DNA of a certain Israeli Jewish group or part of the tribes of Israel. Or vice versa. And they mentioned these Jews migrated to that region and made have played an important roles in mixing with these Africans and in building this great wall. Do they reside in that area today and do they take kindly to outsiders interested in their culture.
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Posted: Friday September 30th, 2005 18:59 |
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thank you very much , i love this topic . so zimbabwe is a beautiful country indeed . One of the world's seven wonders is found in Zimbabwe the Victoria Falls they are even better than the niagra falls , . This proves that Black People are so intelligent . when they show zimbabwean images on tv , you don't see all these places .
there is no place like africa
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The Watcher Villager

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Posted: Friday September 30th, 2005 19:05 |
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defyfear
Those colonials came up with all sorts of ridicolous theories for great zimbabwe. Anything was acceptable to them no matter how foolish and outlandish. Jewish theories (many early British settlers were Jews) and Arab theories. All sorts of crap.
Except the obvious damn truth evidenced and screaming from the architecture, style and peoples. This is NOTHING else but a black African historical site. Tell those parasites to go claim something else.
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ac9311 Villager

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Posted: Saturday October 1st, 2005 06:19 |
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Masai05 wrote: I'm feeling this thread. I'm sick of Egypt! Sick and Fukk and Tired of it! We already know everything there is to know about it. This is why I keep mentioning Ghana, Mali and Songhai! Many people don't seem to care to learn about empires that whites can't stake a claim to; even though they tried to say that the Vikings built the Shona empire, LMAOOOO!
No one talks about Axum, I can't find too much about Punt. We need to focus on other areas for real!
That's why I'm feeling this one!
Peace
Masai, you and everyone else are correct. We need to talk about the many other ancient African societies. One that facinates me is the Kingdom of Kush or ancient Nubia. They predate the ancinet Egyptians. A couple others to think about are ancient Benin and Bamum.
It amazes me how this vast history has never been told by anyone. I can't help but think of the title of one of P.E.'s cd "fear of a black planet". I truly believe that if more of us truly studied our history alot of the self destructive behavior we have would deminish.
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Masai05 Villager

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Posted: Saturday October 1st, 2005 13:32 |
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AC:
History gives us the impetus to move forward with determination. Knowing our History, and better yet, having goals based on those historical actions could serve to make us powerful.
The other day I was talking to someone about Egypt (I'm tired of talking about this place) and he asked, "If we are descended from West Africa how does this directly relate to us?" I replied that those who built the nile valley civilization spread out after invasions and wars. He basically felt that Egypt was the only light of hope, I then started talking about Mali, Ghana and Songhai empires, and a few other points in History and he walked away well fed. My point is that we know what our people built along the Nile but we have to cast more light in other places. We "Blacks" have to create our own indepth Documentaries, re-enactments and write air tight accounts of our ancestral light. I'm tired of watching Basil Davidson and people like him giving us their distorted view of What Black is, who built what and so on. This should be part of our motivation to do something different.
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ac9311 Villager

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Posted: Saturday October 1st, 2005 14:36 |
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Masai,
That's my point, we have all of these black men and women in media and none of them make any attempt to tell our history. That is one of my biggest issues with BET they would rather show booty shaking, women degrading videos all day long and not have any educational programming. If you and I can go back and forth about what we know, one would think those folks particulary Robert Johnson would use the power and influence that they have and create some documentaries or other types of programming that would tell our story.
I don't know if you get TV1 in Florida, but they have documentaries called American Legacy (there's also a magazine) hosted by Tim Reed. They mainly focus on events from 20th century America. I'm just frustrated with the apathy of these folks who achieve so much but don't make any attempt to move our people to the next level. They get their millions and won't buy any mfg plants, distribution centers or anything. All they want is the shinny car(s) with the oversized wheels a pink poodle and a white woman and appear on MTV cribs.
As you know we are still suffering from the ill affects of slavery because so many of the behaviors have been past down from generation to generation. You and I can talk until we are blue in the face and not make the impact these so called black celebrities could make in one half hour program. Where do we start man I'm searching for answers. Anyone, please give suggestions. Please forgive me if I am coming across as ranting, but I'm really concrened about our direction as a people.
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defyfear Villager
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Posted: Saturday October 1st, 2005 18:43 |
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DrunkMonkey
I agree there is no sign of related historic Israeli relics anywhere from what I am seeing. But why put forth such a wild theory in the first place and as you suggest continue to wallow with it to present day. There must be more to the Great Zimbabwe than meets the eye. Some discovery must have been made or is about to be made. I guess time and research will tell.
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Thursday October 6th, 2005 19:28 |
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starphoenix wrote: Aryek,
r there any decent museums in zimbabwe coz i went to one in bulawayo and it was crap. it had more history on the white people's colonisation than black historical figures in zimbabwe. and to add insult to injury, there was a statue of cecil rhodes.
Starphoenix, I'm sorry sis, but I don't think they're any decent museums in zim. I was watching this video on Great Zimbabwe and the Swahili city states a few months ago and the historians basically stated that the white settlers basically distroyed most of the artifacts that were at the site of Great Zim. while they were excavating the ruins, desperately trying to find a clue that would help them to put a white face on the empire. I will try to find some more pictures of the place for you, but I'm afraid that besides the great walls, there's not much left of the place in terms of actual artifacts.
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Thursday October 6th, 2005 19:39 |
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defyfear wrote: Those pictures and text are inviting. I wanted to ask I see the ground and somewhat the wall of the Great Zimbabwe covered in reddish earth. Is that common in that region? I remember I saw pictures of nomadic people in Southern Africa covered as in pasted to skin in this reddish earth and wonder if this was common. Also I saw a special about a people from that region I think its the Lemba and they did DNA test on some of the people there and said they have the DNA of a certain Israeli Jewish group or part of the tribes of Israel. Or vice versa. And they mentioned these Jews migrated to that region and made have played an important roles in mixing with these Africans and in building this great wall. Do they reside in that area today and do they take kindly to outsiders interested in their culture.
Defyfear, Great Zimbabwe has been credited to the Shona people of Southern Africa, hence the name, the Shona Empire. I've heard about the Lemba but they don't have an affiliation to the Empire which was built in the Middle Ages. Even today, the Shona people still believe that the place is sacred to them and they go to a passage underneath the ruins to pay homage to their ancestors.
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Thursday October 6th, 2005 19:58 |
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defyfear wrote: DrunkMonkey
I agree there is no sign of related historic Israeli relics anywhere from what I am seeing. But why put forth such a wild theory in the first place and as you suggest continue to wallow with it to present day. There must be more to the Great Zimbabwe than meets the eye. Some discovery must have been made or is about to be made. I guess time and research will tell.
defyfear, I know you're addressing DrunkMonkey but I think I can answer this. From the video I watched and from my other readings, I learned that the reason why they made this story up was because they wanted to state a prior claim on the land. The white settlers thought that they had as much claim on Southern Africa as the blacks because they thought that black Africans had only arrived in Southern Africa a little bit prior to their arrival. The myth of a white civilization in Southern Africa began because 1) they couldn't believe that blacks could build anything that could withstand the test of time and 2) because it allowed them to claim that they had as much, or even more, claim to Southern Africa because a 'white' tribe had built Great Zimbabwe. The first white man to discover Great Zimbabwe was a German who based on finding cedar wood on one of the walls of the ruins, decided that the ruins was the palace of the mythical white Queen, Sheba, the seducer of King Solomon. This is where all the Jewish crap began and even though in the 1800, a white archeologist used evidence from the site to prove that Great Zim was built by Bantu's the white settlers were still unable to accept it. The name is Bantu (Shona), the artifacts are Bantu, but these people are still unable to accept the fact that some white ancestor did not move thousands of miles away from Europe to 'civilize' the African interior. As far as I'm concerned, there is no issue. We don't go around trying to claim their empires, so I don't see why they can't leave ours alone.
Last edited on Thursday October 6th, 2005 20:02 by Aryek
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Thursday October 6th, 2005 20:04 |
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This article touches on most of the issues that I brought up:
Great Zimbabwe


Located in the south central African nation of Zimbabwe are the ruins of monuments and cities built of stone. These ruins extend a radius of 100 to 200 miles, a diameter almost as great as the entire nation of France. Believed to have been built by southern Africans about 600-1,000 years ago, they are evidence of a thriving culture in the heart of Africa. Up until recent years, the ruins were believed by Western historians to be the remains of a "mysterious white race" in the heart of Africa. Great Zimbabwe has been ravaged by European treasure hunters and amateur archaeologists. Layer after layer of African artifacts were trashed in order to reach the bottom layer which, it was assumed, would prove that whites had exerted early influence in southern Africa. How many artifacts and important pieces of this ancient culture was lost is unknown. It is only in the last several of decades since Zimbabwe became independent in 1980 that archaeologists have begun to take a serious look at ruins of Great Zimbabwe and similar sites representing a dynamic social, economic and political culture in Southern Africa. Pictured above is the great walled enclosure of Great Zimbabwe. (Photo and information courtesy of MCC)

It is now generally accepted that the ruins of Great Zimbabwe reflect the culture of the Shona peoples, a Bantu speaking ethnic group, who reside in the region today. The name Zimbabwe comes from the Shona. Roughly translated it can mean "Houses of Stone" and are associated with rulership. Upon independence the newly formed state of Zimbabwe took this name for itself. Evidence of what some scholars call Cyclopean Architecture, this structure within the Zimbabwe was made by placing stones atop each other without the use of cement. (Photo and information courtesy of MCC and Great Zimbabwe Described and Explained by P.S. Garlake)

Earliest habitation of the site was around 400 AD. The site consists of a large main stone enclosure and many other structures built in and around it. Building probably occurred in three phases. Zimbabwe was occupied from the 13th to the 15th centuries by ancestors of the Shona. Most archaeologists agree that the Zimbabwe-type stone structures were intended to be indicators of status for the dwelling places for the elite. Modern day Zimbabwean kings, like their African ancestral counterparts in Mali, the Nile Valley and elsewhere, still possess similar dwellings. The wall of the great enclosure, pictured above, measures 244 meters in length, is 5 meters thick at its greatest point, and is 10 meters high. Interestingly, it is tapered so that it is narrowest at the top, suggesting fairly sophisticated architecture. (Photo and information courtesy of MCC)

Around 1000AD people began to build large stone buildings for their kings, positioning them away from land. Many believe this move may have occurred to escape the dangerous tsetse fly. About 150 of these great ruins similar to Great Zimbabwe exist today. Many of these have been severely impacted and almost demolished, at least 50, as a result of the hunger for gold by Europeans. The population of Great Zimbabwe, previously estimated at 1,000 before the outside dwelling areas were taken into consideration, is now believed to have been as high as 18,000. Pictured is a massive conical tower. (Photo and information courtesy of MCC)

This falcon and crocodile structure gives a glimpse of the cultural beliefs of ancient Zimbabwe. The use of animals in religious symbology has remained a continuous theme in African spiritual belief systems. Some archaeologists believe that Great Zimbabwe rose as a religious center with Shona religion making a most significant contribution. It is probable that it served as a religious center where Mwari, the supreme Shona god, was reverenced and where cults of the mhondoro (spirits of the ruling dynasty) flourished. (Photo and information courtesy of MCC and African Origins of Civilization by Cheikh Anta Diop)
It is also possible that Zimbabwe was a result of surplus wealth from the East African gold trade. External trade existed between Great Zimbabwe and Sofala on the southern coast of what is now Mozambique. Sofala was an important port where goods from India, China and the Islamic world were imported and then sent into the interior, which in turn exported products from inner Africa. Gold was the most sought after export, but other exports such as copper played a role also. Imports were primarily cloth, glass beads and ceramics. Items found at Great Zimbabwe include a glazed Persian bowl from the 13th or 14th century, Chinese celedon dishes, sherds from a Chinese stoneware vessel, and fragments of engraved and painted Near Eastern glass. Around the 14th century, Great Zimbabwe was probably in direct contact with the trading cities of the East African Coast. There was a sudden increase in building activity there at that time, as there was in the cities on the East African Coast. Some believe the decline of Great Zimbabwe during the 15th century was in direct relationship with the decline of coastal cities. Great Zimbabwe declined probably due to a number of factors including environmental degradation and a decline in the gold trade. The legacy of the region however attests to the ingenuity and political strength of its African ancestors, the Shona, and of Africans everywhere. (Information courtesy of The Shona and Zimbabwe by D.N.Beach)

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The Watcher Villager

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Posted: Thursday October 6th, 2005 23:20 |
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| Dunno how old that is Aryek but there is a museum right there by the site. It's not very big but it is full of useful stuff. Like models of how the people lived, pictorial explainations of how it was all built, the bricks and so on. Examples of the tools used and the animals herded and crops grown, examples of their artwork and goods traded with from people all over the world. They have a good history there of the names of the kings and who did what, not all of them but the major ones. The Zimbabwe birds were given each to the 8 major kings. Germany has one, Britain has one and South Africa has one. Zimbabwe is currently lobbying those nations for the return of those artifacts, I had to make do with looking at replicas.
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Friday October 7th, 2005 04:42 |
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DrunkMonkey wrote: Dunno how old that is Aryek but there is a museum right there by the site. It's not very big but it is full of useful stuff. Like models of how the people lived, pictorial explainations of how it was all built, the bricks and so on. Examples of the tools used and the animals herded and crops grown, examples of their artwork and goods traded with from people all over the world. They have a good history there of the names of the kings and who did what, not all of them but the major ones. The Zimbabwe birds were given each to the 8 major kings. Germany has one, Britain has one and South Africa has one. Zimbabwe is currently lobbying those nations for the return of those artifacts, I had to make do with looking at replicas.
It's sad how Zimbabwe has to lobby these people for the return of their own artifacts. I can't even understand why they would be holding on to something that doesn't belong to them in the first place. It's like that Ethiopian artifact that the Italians have and won't return. If something doesn't belong to you, what exactly are you gaining from holding on to it. just give it to the people who actually have use for it. I would love to visit that site and the musuem one day and actually see the real artifacts not just the replicas of them. This whole thing just makes me sick.
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Posted: Friday October 7th, 2005 20:29 |
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Thanks Aryek. A cut of cedar made all the difference to make all these claims. Who knows if that is the case then these 'pre Columbus' settlement of Africans in the Americas theories should be equally accepted. I am not downing the theories but you have to have something to push your case.
The white settlers thought that they had as much claim on Southern Africa as the blacks because they thought that black Africans had only arrived in Southern Africa a little bit prior to their arrival.
This one I keep hearing too. White settlers and scientific minds keep acknowledging black Africa are 'recent' to Southern Africa. Therefore the land was 'technically up for grabs'. I guess you have to push your case the best way you know how. This one just doesn't make sense as a outside observer.
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Aryek Villager

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Posted: Saturday October 8th, 2005 00:22 |
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defyfear wrote: Thanks Aryek. A cut of cedar made all the difference to make all these claims. Who knows if that is the case then these 'pre Columbus' settlement of Africans in the Americas theories should be equally accepted. I am not downing the theories but you have to have something to push your case.
Actually the cedar wood came from the Swahili merchants who had gotten it from the Arabs during the Arab, Indian, African trades that occurred in the Middle Ages. The Shona built Great Zimbabwe out of the revenue from this trade. The German explorer didn't know this however, because his racisim wouldn't allow him to think of Africans engaging in any sort of business transactions. His theory didn't give the white settlers the idea to claim Great Zimbabwe as their lost empire, but it certainly helped. Also you're right in your views about the 'pre Columbus' settlement of Africans in the Americas. I think they do need more convincing evidence to make this claim. And really I don't know why these people are making this claim to begin with, if it's somehow to disassociate themselves from the slave trade, then I don't think that it's a good idea. Running from the truth never did anyone any good.
The white settlers thought that they had as much claim on Southern Africa as the blacks because they thought that black Africans had only arrived in Southern Africa a little bit prior to their arrival.
This one I keep hearing too. White settlers and scientific minds keep acknowledging black Africa are 'recent' to Southern Africa. Therefore the land was 'technically up for grabs'. I guess you have to push your case the best way you know how. This one just doesn't make sense as a outside observer.
The only people that it makes sense to is themselves. You know that they've even gone as far as to hide Bantu artifacts found at a site that dates thousands of years before their arrival in the basement of the University of Pretoria because it goes against this ridiculous claim? These people will do anything to have a piece of Africa even if it means distorting facts that are sitting right under their noses.
Last edited on Saturday October 8th, 2005 00:22 by Aryek
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Shemsi en Tehuti Villager

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Posted: Thursday July 27th, 2006 15:00 |
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| Big up to this thread right here...
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