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HighIQ Villager
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 22:19 |
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Why are some of you guys having a dig at the ref ?
Kaka was onside
Agger should have been booked for that blatant foul on Kaka
Gattuso was unlucky to get a booking for the foul on Alonso, while Alonso got away with 2-3 bookable offences during the course of the 1st half.
The ref was ok, he did very little wrong, ok he stopped the game 20secs early, i dont think Liverpool would have scored in that 20secs anyway.
Liverpool played well from defence up till the midfield, the forwards were crap, Zenden was pants, pennant should have stayed with Birmigham.
How many saves did Dida make tonight ? That says it all.
PS:Mascherano was heavy tonight, as soon as he was substituted, Kaka started to find the space to play.
What goes around comes back around, Milan played better 2yrs ago but livepool won, this year Liverpool played decent but Milan won. Karma i'll say.
Last edited on Friday May 25th, 2007 15:16 by HighIQ
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Incognito Villager

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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 06:06 |
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Just this minute been watching the news and discovered Liverpool scored a goal...I thought it was 0-2. Oh well, just as I was going to enter the Arsenal thread to talk about trophyless seasons
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tobitrice Villager
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 10:47 |
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Gutted last night after the defeat. Hope this will be a blessing in disguise and we use this defeat to bounce back. We were unlucky to lose but, we cant complain, becuase ultimately we failed to take our chances and milan took theirs. We can outplay milan all we want, but at the end of the day it's siezing chances to score goals that matter. So no complaints. Ref was a bit dodgy tho. Proud of the red men though. They were gracious in defeat and we went out like champions.
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oo9 Villager
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 13:05 |
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First things first.....I dont like Liverpool but have the greatest respect for them cos of the way they compose themselves on and off the pitch (cant say that for chelsea or arsenal)......now lets get to yesterday's game........
The moment I realised that German guy was the refree, I knew liverpool were gonna have it........that guy does not like English teams....he was the same guy who refreed Man Utd vs Roma in Rome and his decisons had me laughing.
The b**tard couldn't wait till the 3 mins were up before he blew....20 secs is more than enough time to score..it only takes a sec to score a goal. Dont get it twisted, I wanted Milan to win (Im a Utd fan after all)... but that guy was dodgy as f**k!!!!
p.s: can someone do a research on that refrees record with English teams? I guarantee it will shock u 
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safetyblitz Super Moderator

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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 13:48 |
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I know that the US announcers said that Liverpool at the start of the game had never won or scored a goal when this guy was reffing them LOL
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DSP Villager

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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 16:26 |
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Interesting outcome.
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huskagee Villager

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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 19:37 |
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LMAO!!!!
What exactly did the referee do? How in the world did he stop Liverpool from scoring?
LMAO!!!!
He actually stopped Milan by making a bad offside call.
Milan is the best team in Europe. They deserved to win. They scored two goals..btw..the second goal was just football in perfection.
IT'S OVER...NOT THE REFEREE...NOT THE WEATHER...JUST LIVERPOOL..BLAME IT ON LIVERPOOL
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HighIQ Villager
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 20:16 |
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huskagee wrote: LMAO!!!!
What exactly did the referee do? How in the world did he stop Liverpool from scoring?
LMAO!!!!
He actually stopped Milan by making a bad offside call.
Milan is the best team in Europe. They deserved to win. They scored two goals..btw..the second goal was just football in perfection.
IT'S OVER...NOT THE REFEREE...NOT THE WEATHER...JUST LIVERPOOL..BLAME IT ON LIVERPOOL
I echoe your thoughts.
Like yourself im still flummoxed how some peeps think the referee was crap.
If anything the litigious decisions went liverpool's way, such as the blatant block on Kaka by Agger ( he didnt even get a booking), or Alonso's numerous fouls before getting a booking.
Lets ignore his "alleged" reputation with English clubs, what was wrong with his perfomance last nite? He stopped the game 20secs before time while the ball was no where near the AC Milan's goal. It doesnt mean Liverpool will score, they had 92minutes, 40secs to beat milan.
The bottom line is they didnt having the cutting edge upfront. Simple as. Ref did a damn good job.
Last edited on Friday May 25th, 2007 15:13 by HighIQ
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rafa Villager
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 22:01 |
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Dirk Kuyt was wrongly flagged offside BEFORE Kaka - for a chance just as good - very short memories some people have...
AC Milan did make some substitutions in stoppage time or thereabouts... thats more seconds that should have been added - so to say we only had 20 seconds or the ball wasnt anywhere near AC Milan goal is quite ridiculous - again - very short memory some people have....
Milan's first goal looked dodgy - struck the players arm before it went in
Not blaming the ref or anything - we deserved what we got - we only have ourselves to blame for not killing the game off before half time.
[QUOTE=huskagee]
Milan was better. A real championship team. They really deserve the title, brilliant away win against Bayern and they really destroyed ManU. Today they did not even perform at a high level.
Milan were shocking and in no way "better"
They barely got out of their own half, it was embarassing.
We beat Barcelona in their own backyard, and Chelsea - both teams better than Man U and Bayern
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rafa Villager
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 22:08 |
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HighIQ wrote:
He stopped the game 20secs before time while the ball was no where near the AC Milan's goal. It doesnt mean Liverpool will score, they had 92minutes, 40secs to beat milan.
1)There was an original 3 minutes minimum plus a substitution in injury time, so therefore a minimum of 3 mins 30 seconds. I think that he blew on 92 mins 40 secs, so we missed 50+ seconds.
2). There were six substitutions in the second half. So that's 3 minutes. They wasted a bit of time, feigning injury, so you would have expected at least a minute for that. So we lost out on 1 min 20 seconds or more.
3) It showed that the referee, didn't apply some of the basic laws of the game.
4)Stevie G fired an equaliser with the last kick in Cardiff last season, so you cant claim that we couldn't have drawn level either
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HighIQ Villager
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 23:09 |
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rafa wrote: 1)There was an original 3 minutes minimum plus a substitution in injury time, so therefore a minimum of 3 mins 30 seconds. I think that he blew on 92 mins 40 secs, so we missed 50+ seconds.
2). There were six substitutions in the second half. So that's 3 minutes. They wasted a bit of time, feigning injury, so you would have expected at least a minute for that. So we lost out on 1 min 20 seconds or more.
3)It showed that the referee, didn't apply some of the basic laws of the game.
4)Stevie G fired an equaliser with the last kick in Cardiff last season, so you cant claim that we couldn't have drawn level either
LMAO, No disrespect rafa, i think you are crutching at straws.
The 3mins given as injury time were a combination of substitutions and injury stoppages ( very few if i recollect correctly). Your loss of extra 1 min 30secs is quite incorrect. Time allowed for substituition is at the discretion of the referee, so 3mins for 6 substituitions is purely an assumption on your part. I fail to see your point regarding the referee not applying the basic rules of football. Admittedly Liverpool could have drawn level in 20secs, but Milan could easily have stretched their lead also, Milan could have kept the ball for the remaining 20secs. There are so many permutations, but Liverpools defeat shouldnt be based on the lost 20secs that might have been. Last edited on Thursday May 24th, 2007 23:13 by HighIQ
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huskagee Villager

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Posted: Friday May 25th, 2007 06:21 |
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rafa wrote: Dirk Kuyt was wrongly flagged offside BEFORE Kaka - for a chance just as good - very short memories some people have...
AC Milan did make some substitutions in stoppage time or thereabouts... thats more seconds that should have been added - so to say we only had 20 seconds or the ball wasnt anywhere near AC Milan goal is quite ridiculous - again - very short memory some people have....
Milan's first goal looked dodgy - struck the players arm before it went in
Not blaming the ref or anything - we deserved what we got - we only have ourselves to blame for not killing the game off before half time.
[QUOTE=huskagee]
Milan was better. A real championship team. They really deserve the title, brilliant away win against Bayern and they really destroyed ManU. Today they did not even perform at a high level.
Milan were shocking and in no way "better"
They barely got out of their own half, it was embarassing.
We beat Barcelona in their own backyard, and Chelsea - both teams better than Man U and Bayern
Maybe, and you had the chance to play against Milan and beat them as well, but you didn't.
I still believe in the principles of the game. This is football and no ice skating. Milan 2 Liverpool 1 So every football book in the world tells me, that Milan was better. They barely got out of their own half? Maybe, but everytime they got out, they were way more dangerous than Liverpool. It was a typical game. Liverpool made all the mistakes which you shouldn't do against an Italian team. Reminded me of Germany vs. Italy in the World Cup. I've never had the feeling that Liverpool would score. No way. But it was more than sure that Milan would score.
and 3 minutes injury team? It's not a fix time, the referee can even stop the game after 1 minute of injury time, if he wants to.
btw. the second he stopped the game, it would have been a a free kick for Milan. So what do you think, how long it would have taken Milan to play the ball again. At least 30 seconds. So right, stop this game, it's over anyway.
Let's start the celebration.
Last edited on Friday May 25th, 2007 06:22 by huskagee
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stick-upKid Villager

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Posted: Friday May 25th, 2007 11:04 |
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Liverpool are lame.
The End.
<roll credits>
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huskagee Villager

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Posted: Saturday May 26th, 2007 06:50 |
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Damn...just watch the first goal....pure accident?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0D2kBhgVPE
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Le Moor Villager

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Posted: Saturday May 26th, 2007 08:39 |
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Huskagee, as you can see, their goal was clearly handball anyway.
Last edited on Saturday May 26th, 2007 09:05 by Le Moor
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Backatya Super Moderator

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Posted: Saturday May 26th, 2007 13:23 |
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Le Moor wrote:

Huskagee, as you can see, their goal was clearly handball anyway.
@ Le Moor
You know I usually agree with you without argument right? 
But that picture angle is deceptive. I saw the goal several times on TV (in slow mo) and without a doubt the ball struck him on his upper arm (above the elbow), so it was definitely not handball.
For real I felt sorry for the lads because they had Milan under manners practically the whole game. Unfortunately, they failed to score after mounting several attacks whilst Milan scored twice after mounting.........err...well..... two. It may be hard to swallow, but the reds lost fair and square.
Oh, at the person who complained about the 30 seconds or 50 seconds early whistle. That is really clutching at microbes. Sure, no one can say for certain that Liverpool wouldn't have scored if it had gone on to the last mili-second. But by the same token who can say that Milan wouldn't have bagged at third if it had, or nabbed it in extra time even if there was a last minute equalizer. One can speculate until the cows come home, but so what?
Liverpool did well but it was Milan's fair and square....sorry!
Respect
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Le Moor Villager

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Posted: Sunday May 27th, 2007 07:19 |
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Backatya wrote: Le Moor wrote:

Huskagee, as you can see, their goal was clearly handball anyway.
@ Le Moor
You know I usually agree with you without argument right? 
But that picture angle is deceptive. I saw the goal several times on TV (in slow mo) and without a doubt the ball struck him on his upper arm (above the elbow), so it was definitely not handball.
Backatya, you're getting old and grey sir....... obviously. . Which part of the above picture does not look like a handball to any youthful eye. The evidence is there for us we cannont deny. . Of course the arguement of it being " Ball to hand" rather than "Hand to ball" could be a valid one, but im a Liverpool supporter and you wont be hearing that arguement from me.
Last edited on Sunday May 27th, 2007 07:59 by Le Moor
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Backatya Super Moderator

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Posted: Sunday May 27th, 2007 07:48 |
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Le Moor wrote:
Backatya, you're getting old and grey sir....... obviously. .
Le Moor
LOL......No doubt about that! But as I said the "the picture angle is deceptive". In other words whilst it may give the illusion of a handball, the reality of what happened was different..............as evidenced by the actual live footage from the match.
I wasn't arguing on whether from the evidence of the still picture it looks like handball, just that it was not actually handball. Did you check out the slow motion replays of the incidence? Then you would know, unless you are determined for your heart to rule your head that it was not a handball, but a deflection off his upper arm.
I tell you what though. I do envy the fact that you are getting younger and less grey every day, whilst for me nature is taking its natural course. 
Respect
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Le Moor Villager

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Posted: Sunday May 27th, 2007 07:55 |
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Backatya deliberate contact on the upper arm is in fact handball. You ever played footie? 
Here are the rules:
What is 'deliberate' handball?
"The challenging decisions are if the defending player spreads their arms to make themselves bigger"
Former Premier League referee David Elleray
"Hand to ball or ball to hand?" Nothing stirs the passion like a controversial handball decision.
You've only got to look at players and managers jumping up and down enraged at a dodgy penalty to know that.
A ball slams into a player's arm and one team is screaming for a penalty, while the others are claiming it was an accident.
It's a tricky one for the referee to call in the heat of the moment.
So what is 'deliberate' handball?
In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".
Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials".
It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area.
"A caution or dismissal is not normally required."
However, the document fails to describe what constitutes deliberate handball, which places the responsibility firmly on the referee and referees' assistants.
Former Premier League referee David Elleray said the referee's interpretation depends on whether the hand or arm is in an "unnatural" position at the point of contact.
"Referees look at two specifics - did the hand or arm go towards the ball or in a manner which would block the ball, or is the hand in a position where it would not normally be?" Elleray told BBC Sport.
"The challenging decisions are if the defending player spreads their arms to make themselves bigger.
"If the ball hits the arm then the referee must decide whether this action was to deliberately block the ball or whether the player has raised their arms to protect themselves - especially if the ball is hit at speed."
The referee and referees' assistants, therefore, have a matter of seconds to weigh up these factors, and take the appropriate action.
And there will always be at least one manager, 11 players and thousands of fans who will insist they have been hard done by.
Last edited on Sunday May 27th, 2007 08:03 by Le Moor
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Le Moor Villager

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Posted: Sunday May 27th, 2007 08:09 |
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Precise definition just incase theres any confusion about which part of the arm qualifies.
http://sports.expertvillage.com/videos/soccer-rules.htm
*walks off all smug that he's got one over the veteran Villiager Backatya*.....
Last edited on Sunday May 27th, 2007 08:25 by Le Moor
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Backatya Super Moderator

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Posted: Sunday May 27th, 2007 08:25 |
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Le Moor wrote: Precise definition just incase theres any confusion about which part of the arm qualifies.
http://sports.expertvillage.com/videos/soccer-rules.htm
*walks off all smug that he's got one over the veteran Villiager Backatya*.....
LOL.....I guess I can understand your smugness, since such opportunities are....well.... usually non-existence in your case, right? 
I really should have laboured more the fact the it was a case (check the slow mo) of ball hitting the upper arm rather than hand to ball........my bad.
Come on now, surely you have seen countless incidences with balls hitting a player anywhere between 'fingertips and shoulder' which were not deemed a handball. Like most things in football the 'absolute rule' is subject to interpretation and judgement by the referee. In this case I think the referee got it right.
But I can't deny you your moment of smugness. I am sure it won't be long before I have you crying like a baby in another encounter.....
Respect
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rafa Villager
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Posted: Sunday May 27th, 2007 12:37 |
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HighIQ wrote: rafa wrote:
LMAO, No disrespect rafa, i think you are crutching at straws.
The 3mins given as injury time were a combination of substitutions and injury stoppages ( very few if i recollect correctly). Your loss of extra 1 min 30secs is quite incorrect. Time allowed for substituition is at the discretion of the referee, so 3mins for 6 substituitions is purely an assumption on your part. I fail to see your point regarding the referee not applying the basic rules of football. Admittedly Liverpool could have drawn level in 20secs, but Milan could easily have stretched their lead also, Milan could have kept the ball for the remaining 20secs. There are so many permutations, but Liverpools defeat shouldnt be based on the lost 20secs that might have been.
Footballing guidelines = a minimum 30 seconds per sub
Not an assumption on my part
In Stoppage time - Milan used up 45 seconds on a substitution - so theres at least a minimum 3 mins and 30 seconds to be played.... The ref blew up early - which is neglect of duty and grossly unfair. In a close game as a CL final where seconds mean goals - this is cheating & failure to apply the basic rules of football
I might sound bitter - but im just stating the obvious
Dont really matter though - we deserved what we got
@ Le Moor
@ Handball pic - I didnt watch the highlights for obvious reasons - but i did get the impression at the time it was handball - and this picture just confirms my suspicions - doesnt get any clearer.
Milan were lucky on the night and the better team lost - simple
Saying that - credit to Milan for being more clinical - 2 chances - 2 goals - if only our strikers were that clinical
So many question marks about Rafa's substitutions during the game?! Too much Zenden, too little Kewell, and too little (12 mins to be precise) Crouch(striker Milan feared most)
And why take off Mascherano who kept Kaka quiet all night?? Any surprise that their 2nd goal came as soon as he was taken off
And bring in a DEFENDER late in the game? as opposed to someone like Bellamy(sh*t that he is) at least he had the pace to do something against tired legs.
Is it me - or Kuyt have been shocking in the last few games or month should I say!!
fck that - im off.........
PS: Voronin we will be the answer to our goalscoring problems  
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Le Moor Villager

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Posted: Sunday May 27th, 2007 13:58 |
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rafa wrote: HighIQ wrote: rafa wrote:
@ Le Moor
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