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Africa Debt Relief : what WE (blacknet villagers) can do
 Moderated by: Saida.M, safetyblitz, Raven, Miss Brighter Days, LadyDay, Kunjufu, Kibibi, Happiness, Dillinger, Breadfruit, Backatya  

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COLTRANE
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 Posted: Thursday January 6th, 2005 18:38

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As we all know this year UK takes over as the  the chair of G8 surely they wont wipe out all of Africas debt relief but I believe if we want we could we can do something about it.

In light of existing analysis on the problems facing Africa, the range of previous political declarations from African Governments themselves, the range of existing – and still unfulfilled – promises of industrialised countries, and the way the UK and EU have ignored African governments in the WTO

the plight of many African countries is not due to a lack of research or understanding. In fact, the analysis of Africa’s problems is already well developed and a wide range of progressive solutions for many of Africa’s problems has already been proposed. What is lacking is political will in the industrialised world to make good on existing commitments and make use of this wealth of knowledge and the strength of feeling in Africa in favour of lasting and radical change.
  • African governments have the political space to use alternative development policies – including the kind of policies we in the West used to develop - and are not forced into inappropriate ‘one-size fits-all’ free market economic policy models;
  • International action to address the commodity crisis, including some form of supply control to stabilise prices;
  • The domestic policies and activities of industrialised countries do not undermine sustainable development efforts in Africa (eg, agricultural export subsidies, tariff escalation, greenhouse gas emissions);
  • The operations of industrialised country based multinational companies in Africa are effectively regulated internationally and by home country governments;
  • African governments have fair representation in international institutions (eg, World Trade Organisation, World Bank and IMF);
  • African countries have sufficient resources to achieve development (eg, debt cancellation and aid) in order to reverse the net outflow of financial resources from the developing to the developed world;
  • African people are helped to combat corruption through fostering political transparency and national democratic processes, not through forcing African countries to reduce government intervention in the economy.
But if one looks closely will find out that most of these debt movements all you get is causes of problems in Africa and few solutions but what I believe is we can bring on our views and I believe if we do enough reserch we can start with letters drafted from here in blacknet then for those who dont have time can just copy it and paste it in word and then address it to our local MP'S for a start,and I am sure since they want our votes they will listen to us..I still have hopes that we can still influence things and i will be more than ready to provide info on how .

more info and views are welcome..



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 Posted: Thursday January 6th, 2005 19:22

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clp)clp)

Fantastic post Coltrane

This is the type on hands on stuff I'm talking about -

You've identified an issue, defined the problems that surround it and given us ideas as to how we can beign to tackle that problem.

I'm inspired Brother - and will act on your advice.

Thank You Sir!

Real Leadership!



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 Posted: Thursday January 6th, 2005 19:34

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Coltrane: I love the idea..I willing to sign up to your suggestion..maybe we should start a petition...gathering as many names as is possible to back up our thoughts.. just a suggestion..



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 Posted: Thursday January 6th, 2005 19:50

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@Coltrane, how long will Britain hold the chairmanship of the G8?

And congrats, this is such an inspiring thread, apart from what Kunjunfu has sugested here at the BN, do you have any other sugestions on other effective way we can campaign? 



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 Posted: Thursday January 6th, 2005 20:55

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Kunjufu wrote: Coltrane: I love the idea..I willing to sign up to your suggestion..maybe we should start a petition...gathering as many names as is possible to back up our thoughts.. just a suggestion..


Great idea Kunjufu - count me in.



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 Posted: Thursday January 6th, 2005 21:46

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i'm in...

we should nominate a member to compose the covering letter that could go wit the petition. post the draft in the forum and once its vetoed we can start collecting names.

we can print out the letter to go wit the names we collect on our own too, to send to our MPs.

gr8 post coltrane.



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 Posted: Thursday January 6th, 2005 21:46

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thanks for the support but we cant move ahead without a set of realistic goals and mind you if we first identify areas that we can work out on then it will be a great thing though the majority would like Debts to be wiped out once and for all.

what should we demand from the UK govt? I have few sugestions though anyone can put more.And as far as letter writing is concerned I am not good at writing but I believe we can draw up something then everyone in the village will understand.We also have to identify who are we going to target from westminster and Whitehall but I believe that  there are MP's who will listen to us.

                  now what should we demand?

 

  

  1. Support efforts to establish a legally-binding International Arms Trade Treaty and fulfil its manifesto commitment to control UK arms brokers wherever they are located in Africa.
  2. Call for the implementation of all the recommendations in the World Bank’s Extractive Industries Review (including a cessation of World Bank funding for oil and gas extraction in Africa).
  3. Require, as a condition for being listed on the UK stock market, mandatory disclosure of the payments made by UK-based oil, gas and mining companies’ to all foreign governments for the extraction of natural resources. A vital anti-corruption measure known as ‘publish what you pay'.
  4. Commit to non-reciprocal trading relations with former African colonies, as opposed to the reciprocal ‘Economic Partnership Agreements’ (ie, free trade areas) that the EU is using to extract liberalisation out of the poorest African countries.
  5. Reform the UK Export Credit Guarantee Department (ECGD) by developing an Ethical Guarantees Policy that will embody a commitment to socially-just and environmentally-sound development and be consistent with the Government’s broader sustainable development and ‘ethical foreign policy’ objectives. Specifically, stop subsidising arms exports.
  6. Support within the EU the call of African, Caribbean and Pacific parliamentarians for the European Commission to drop its demand that many African countries open up their water supplies to the free market under the WTO’s General Agreement on Trade in Services
  7. Support the proposals made by African countries to reform the WTO’s undemocratic and untransparent negotiating processes.
 

    



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 Posted: Friday January 7th, 2005 05:33

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I think this is a good idea, however to gain wider acceptance it may be important to highlight how Africa and we as a people will benefit if we manage to influence the changes you are proposing, this is the reason why it is important to set some goals. It will also give us the means by which we can measure the success of our efforts.



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 Posted: Friday January 7th, 2005 08:21

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I think this idea will work and at least we can all share ideas and things. Im sure a lot of people would be willing to help out with this.



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 Posted: Friday January 7th, 2005 09:06

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I'm down good idea Coltraneclp)



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 Posted: Saturday January 8th, 2005 00:15

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COLTRANE wrote: As we all know this year UK takes over as the  the chair of G8 surely they wont wipe out all of Africas debt relief but I believe if we want we could we can do something about it.

In light of existing analysis on the problems facing Africa, the range of previous political declarations from African Governments themselves, the range of existing – and still unfulfilled – promises of industrialised countries, and the way the UK and EU have ignored African governments in the WTO

the plight of many African countries is not due to a lack of research or understanding. In fact, the analysis of Africa’s problems is already well developed and a wide range of progressive solutions for many of Africa’s problems has already been proposed. What is lacking is political will in the industrialised world to make good on existing commitments and make use of this wealth of knowledge and the strength of feeling in Africa in favour of lasting and radical change.

  • African governments have the political space to use alternative development policies – including the kind of policies we in the West used to develop - and are not forced into inappropriate ‘one-size fits-all’ free market economic policy models;
  • International action to address the commodity crisis, including some form of supply control to stabilise prices;
  • The domestic policies and activities of industrialised countries do not undermine sustainable development efforts in Africa (eg, agricultural export subsidies, tariff escalation, greenhouse gas emissions);
  • The operations of industrialised country based multinational companies in Africa are effectively regulated internationally and by home country governments;
  • African governments have fair representation in international institutions (eg, World Trade Organisation, World Bank and IMF);
  • African countries have sufficient resources to achieve development (eg, debt cancellation and aid) in order to reverse the net outflow of financial resources from the developing to the developed world;
  • African people are helped to combat corruption through fostering political transparency and national democratic processes, not through forcing African countries to reduce government intervention in the economy.
But if one looks closely will find out that most of these debt movements all you get is causes of problems in Africa and few solutions but what I believe is we can bring on our views and I believe if we do enough reserch we can start with letters drafted from here in blacknet then for those who dont have time can just copy it and paste it in word and then address it to our local MP'S for a start,and I am sure since they want our votes they will listen to us..I still have hopes that we can still influence things and i will be more than ready to provide info on how .

more info and views are welcome..

So good it as to be repeated

:)



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 Posted: Sunday January 9th, 2005 01:47

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Hello my people



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 Posted: Sunday January 9th, 2005 01:47

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I typed a a document from Word but seems it cant get here



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 Posted: Sunday January 9th, 2005 02:11

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I've been doing my little research on the whole issueof debt and I've got a mountain of info here and seemsthat so many people know about Africas problems  andsome seems to have speciality in that departmentespecially folks at the Department for InternationalDevelopment.Iformation from UNDP was pretty goodespecially with their updates and so on the truth is that the plight of many African countries is not due
to a lack of research or understanding. In fact, theanalysis of Africa’s problems is already welldeveloped and a wide range of progressive solutionsfor many of Africa’s has already beenproposed. What is lacking is political will in theindustrialised world to make good on existingcommitments and make use of this wealth of knowledge
and the strength of feeling in Africa in favour oflasting and radical change.


Some of you must have heard of  a UK govt calledAFRICA COMMISSION wile I am for anything that willbring positive in Africa I don’t believe  that anothercommission is what we need but rather what Africa needs is the political will in the industrialised
world to genuinely listen to alternative voices and tomake good on past promises. There is little or nothingin the make-up or remit of this Commission that lead
us to believe that it will be anything more than a PR exercise designed to endorse existinggovernment policies and initiatives.

i know some would be asking why Blacknet Villagerswhile Christian aid and Oxfam are doing their job? Whycant we wait for Commission for Africasrecommendations?  And why cant we have solutions fromAfrica’s point of view(direct from the continent)..I will try to answer that as follows


Past Proposed Solutions from Africa
Over the past two decades, a range of initiatives have come from Africa itself, including the following.

(1) Lagos Plan of Action (1980)
An Action Plan agreed by African States as part of theOrganization of African Unity (now replaced by theAfrican Union). A large focus is on regional economicintegration, with the eventual aim of an AfricanEconomic Community. It deplores the lack of politicalwill and the negative attitude of industrializedcountries in international negotiations relating tothe restructuring of the world economy for the establishment of the new international economic order


(2) African Alternative Framework to Structural
Adjustment Programmes (AAF-SAP) (1989)The AAF-SAP was produced from studies by economists atthe United Nations Economic Commission for Africa(UNECA), and was presented as a framework in 1989. The United Nations General Assembly passed a
resolution inviting the international community,including the multilateral financial and developmentinstitutions, to consider the African AlternativeFramework as a basis for constructive dialogue andfruitful consultation. The United States was the only country to vote against the resolution.

Proposals included:
•Diversifying exports into processed commodities andmanufactured goods through specific incentives.
•Bilateral and multilateral agreements oncommodities.
•Establish a balance between the public and privatesectors.
•Retain important areas such as essential publicsectors and environmental  protection within the publicsector.
•Selective privatisation in non-social services and non-strategic sectors.
•Cut military spending.
•Reverse policies that give incentives to exportcrops over food crops.
•Guarantee a minimum price for food crops ensuredthrough a strategic grain reserve.
•Limit debt service spending to levels that allowgrowth and development.
•Limit loan resources to prevent future debtbuild-up, and focus these on projects with the highest expected rate of return.
•Implement land reform for better access andentitlement to land, especially for women.
•Do not reduce budget deficits at the expense ofspending in the social sector.
•Strengthen intra-African economic cooperationthrough measures such as reducing intra-African tradebarriers.
•Greater mass participation in decision-making.

(3) African Charter for Popular Participation andDevelopment (Arusha Charter) (1990) The charter was an outcome of a meeting organised byUNECA and attended by African NGOs, Africangovernments and UN agencies. The focus of the charterwas on the need to increase popular participation inpolicies and programmes.

The charter called for:
•An acceptance of the AAF-SAP as the best frameworkfor achieving sustainable development
•An opening up of political processes to ensureeffective participation of people and organisations
•The international community to support indigenouspolicies
•The IMF and World Bank to support country designeddevelopment processes
•An increase in development resources from theindustrialised world to reverse the net outflow ofresources to IFIs and donor countries
•A drastic reduction in Africa’s debt stock and amoratorium on remaining debt servicing to free upresources on development.

(4) New Economic Partnership for African Development(NEPAD) (2002)
The past decade has seen an increasing acceptance offree market economic orthodoxy by some Africangovernments. For some this may stem from a belief that
such policies are appropriate for their economy andfor others it may reflect a pragmatic approach torelations with industrialised countries on whom theyrely for aid, loans and debt relief.

The 2002 G8 in Kananaskis, Canada, saw the launch ofthe New Economic Partnership for African Development(NEPAD). Initiated by a group of African governments,
NEPAD essentially committed African countries togovernance and free market economic reforms in returnfor aid commitments and trade reform from the G8.
Although NEPAD was criticised by many civil societygroups both in terms of its content and the way it wascreated (by a small influential group of AfricanGovernments with little or no parliamentary and civilsociety input), it was seen by the G8 as a plan for
Africa, written by Africa.

Yet the support given to NEPAD by the G8 raises thefollowing question for the UK Government: if NEPADrepresents the G8’s blueprint for relations betweenAfrica and the industrialised world, why do we need a Commission for Africa?

Can we trust TB(Tony Blair) & GB(Gordon Brown) initiative? As an election campaign YES  practically? I doubt it should we have hopes? YES but thats not enough we need to do something about the issues.I’ve got this report from DFID through my local labour  MP and all he was happy about was how  Labour has increasedaid in Africa but I wasn’t satisfied does that meanthat I cant trust them NO will I give up NO whybecause they are the ones in power and I we will have to deal with them


I guess some of you have heard of how HIPICinitiatives (highly indebted Poor Countries) have letdown African countries why ? according to availabledata  HIPIC is not granting an exit from unsustainabledebts. Uganda still has unsustainable debts, asdefined by the IMF and World Bank, despite receivingdebt relief in 2000. Uganda’s debt to export ratio was209 per cent in 2002/03, and is predicted to onlyreach 150 per cent in 2012/13, 12 years after beinggranted debt relief under the enhanced HIPCinitiative. And not only is HIPC failing to deliver anexit from the debt crisis, it is being used to as alever to ratchet further free market reforms out ofpoor countries. It is a sad irony that the same suiteof discredited ‘structural adjustment’ policies that
have failed to deliver development and haveexacerbated the debt crisis over the past two decades are now being pushed in return for debt relief.

For example, in order to qualify for debt relief, poorcountries must agree a ‘decision point’ document withthe IMF and World Bank setting out the policy reformsthey will implement. Even Debt Relief NGO’s  analysisof the ‘decision point’ documents for the 26 countriesthat have so far progressed under HIPC is revealing,if not particularly surprising. Of these 26 documents,all mentioned a previous privatisation programme andan ongoing/future privatisation process. 15specifically mentioned planned privatisation in publicutilities or basic services such as energy,telecommunications, water and transport. 23 mentionedpast efforts to liberalise trade and 11 indicated a
continuing trade liberalisation process.


Now if we are going for a direct or indirect Actionwhat areas should we concentrate on? And how are wegoing to approach the isues raised and who should welobby to?I believe we have a huge range of areas that we can gothrough and to mention few : but you can add up more if needed

Industrial tariffs
Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights
(TRIPs) – patents on life forms
Institutional reforms
General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS)
Commodities: action to stabilise prices
Sustainable debts
Health
Privatisation
Aid
Education

Nb:I really need some help from folks in the village on how we can go about this issue



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 Posted: Sunday January 9th, 2005 02:17

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What kind of help is needed to get this going.....break it down niceone.gif



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 Posted: Sunday January 9th, 2005 02:18

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I've been doing my little research on the whole issueof debt and I've got a mountain of info here and seemsthat so many people know about Africas problems  andsome seems to have speciality in that departmentespecially folks at the Department for InternationalDevelopment.Iformation from UNDP was pretty goodespecially with their updates and so on the truth is that the plight of many African countries is not due
to a lack of research or understanding. In fact, theanalysis of Africa’s problems is already welldeveloped and a wide range of progressive solutionsfor many of Africa’s has already beenproposed. What is lacking is political will in theindustrialised world to make good on existingcommitments and make use of this wealth of knowledge
and the strength of feeling in Africa in favour oflasting and radical change.



Some of you must have heard of  a UK govt calledAFRICA COMMISSION wile I am for anything that willbring positive in Africa I don’t believe  that anothercommission is what we need but rather what Africa needs is the political will in the industrialised
world to genuinely listen to alternative voices and tomake good on past promises. There is little or nothingin the make-up or remit of this Commission that lead
us to believe that it will be anything more than a PR exercise designed to endorse existinggovernment policies and initiatives.

i know some would be asking why Blacknet Villagerswhile Christian aid and Oxfam are doing their job? Whycant we wait for Commission for Africasrecommendations?  And why cant we have solutions fromAfrica’s point of view(direct from the continent)..I will try to answer that as follows


Past Proposed Solutions from Africa
Over the past two decades, a range of initiatives have come from Africa itself, including the following.

(1) Lagos Plan of Action (1980)
An Action Plan agreed by African States as part of theOrganization of African Unity (now replaced by theAfrican Union). A large focus is on regional economicintegration, with the eventual aim of an AfricanEconomic Community.
It deplores the lack of politicalwill and the negative attitude of industrializedcountries in international negotiations relating tothe restructuring of the world economy for the establishment of the new international economic order


(2) African Alternative Framework to Structural
Adjustment Programmes (AAF-SAP) (1989)The AAF-SAP was produced from studies by economists atthe United Nations Economic Commission for Africa(UNECA), and was presented as a framework in 1989. The United Nations General Assembly passed a
resolution inviting the international community,including the multilateral financial and developmentinstitutions, to consider the African AlternativeFramework as a basis for constructive dialogue andfruitful consultation.
The United States was the only country to vote against the resolution.

Proposals included:
•Diversifying exports into processed commodities andmanufactured goods through specific incentives.
•Bilateral and multilateral agreements oncommodities.
•Establish a balance between the public and privatesectors.
•Retain important areas such as essential publicsectors and environmental  protection within the publicsector.
•Selective privatisation in non-social services and non-strategic sectors.
•Cut military spending.
•Reverse policies that give incentives to exportcrops over food crops.
•Guarantee a minimum price for food crops ensuredthrough a strategic grain reserve.
•Limit debt service spending to levels that allowgrowth and development.
•Limit loan resources to prevent future debtbuild-up, and focus these on projects with the highest expected rate of return.
•Implement land reform for better access andentitlement to land, especially for women.
•Do not reduce budget deficits at the expense ofspending in the social sector.
•Strengthen intra-African economic cooperationthrough measures such as reducing intra-African tradebarriers.
•Greater mass participation in decision-making.

(3) African Charter for Popular Participation andDevelopment (Arusha Charter) (1990) The charter was an outcome of a meeting organised byUNECA and attended by African NGOs, Africangovernments and UN agencies. The focus of the charterwas on the need to increase popular participation inpolicies and programmes.

The charter called for:
•An acceptance of the AAF-SAP as the best frameworkfor achieving sustainable development
•An opening up of political processes to ensureeffective participation of people and organisations
•The international community to support indigenouspolicies
•The IMF and World Bank to support country designeddevelopment processes
•An increase in development resources from theindustrialised world to reverse the net outflow ofresources to IFIs and donor countries
•A drastic reduction in Africa’s debt stock and amoratorium on remaining debt servicing to free upresources on development.

(4) New Economic Partnership for African Development(NEPAD) (2002)
The past decade has seen an increasing acceptance offree market economic orthodoxy by some Africangovernments. For some this may stem from a belief that
such policies are appropriate for their economy andfor others it may reflect a pragmatic approach torelations with industrialised countries on whom theyrely for aid, loans and debt relief.

The 2002 G8 in Kananaskis, Canada, saw the launch ofthe New Economic Partnership for African Development(NEPAD). Initiated by a group of African governments,
NEPAD essentially committed African countries togovernance and free market economic reforms in returnfor aid commitments and trade reform from the G8.
Although NEPAD was criticised by many civil societygroups both in terms of its content and the way it wascreated (by a small influential group of AfricanGovernments with little or no parliamentary and civilsociety input), it was seen by the G8 as a plan for
Africa, written by Africa.

Yet the support given to NEPAD by the G8 raises thefollowing question for the UK Government: if NEPADrepresents the G8’s blueprint for relations betweenAfrica and the industrialised world, why do we need a Commission for Africa?

Can we trust TB(Tony Blair) & GB(Gordon Brown) initiative? As an election campaign YES  practically? I doubt it should we have hopes? YES but thats not enough we need to do something about the issues.I’ve got this report from DFID through my local labour  MP and all he was happy about was how  Labour has increasedaid in Africa but I wasn’t satisfied does that meanthat I cant trust them NO will I give up NO whybecause they are the ones in power and I we will have to deal with them


I guess some of you have heard of how HIPICinitiatives (highly indebted Poor Countries) have letdown African countries why ? according to availabledata  HIPIC is not granting an exit from unsustainabledebts. Uganda still has unsustainable debts, asdefined by the IMF and World Bank, despite receivingdebt relief in 2000. Uganda’s debt to export ratio was209 per cent in 2002/03, and is predicted to onlyreach 150 per cent in 2012/13, 12 years after beinggranted debt relief under the enhanced HIPCinitiative. And not only is HIPC failing to deliver anexit from the debt crisis, it is being used to as alever to ratchet further free market reforms out ofpoor countries. It is a sad irony that the same suiteof discredited ‘structural adjustment’ policies that
have failed to deliver development and haveexacerbated the debt crisis over the past two decades are now being pushed in return for debt relief.

For example, in order to qualify for debt relief, poorcountries must agree a ‘decision point’ document withthe IMF and World Bank setting out the policy reformsthey will implement. Even Debt Relief NGO’s  analysisof the ‘decision point’ documents for the 26 countriesthat have so far progressed under HIPC is revealing,if not particularly surprising. Of these 26 documents,all mentioned a previous privatisation programme andan ongoing/future privatisation process. 15specifically mentioned planned privatisation in publicutilities or basic services such as energy,telecommunications, water and transport. 23 mentionedpast efforts to liberalise trade and 11 indicated a
continuing trade liberalisation process.


Now if we are going for a direct or indirect Actionwhat areas should we concentrate on? And how are wegoing to approach the isues raised and who should welobby to?I believe we have a huge range of areas that we can gothrough and to mention few : but you can add up more if needed

Industrial tariffs
Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights
(TRIPs) – patents on life forms
Institutional reforms
General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS)
Commodities: action to stabilise prices
Sustainable debts
Health
Privatisation
Aid
Education

Nb:I really need some help from folks in the village on how we can go about this issue



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 Posted: Monday January 10th, 2005 09:34

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OK people while I was waiting for your responses I thought we should  not concentrate on single issues other wise we will be left out.Good enough I've got some positive responses from different organisations in Africa who will be willing to provide us with updates on several issues be it human rights or water privatisation just like thise group in Ghana(NCAP) http://www.isodec.org.gh/isodec/water_NCAP.htm

They are fighting a war and loosing some battles but all they need is support from us and other organisations,

THE SITUATION:

this privatisation is in the final stages and a handful of multinational companies are bidding to take over the urban water supply and make profits under a system that spells only problems for Ghana's poorer communities. One of these companies is the British corporation, Biwater plc. Under the terms of the privatisation contract the successful company will have no responsibility for investment in the water supply or for improving access to water to poor communities, NCAP are very clear that the existing privatisation plan in Ghana is undemocratic, externally imposed and can only make it more difficult for poor people in Ghana to get access to clean, safe water.

NCAP has led a massive popular campaign against the privatisation, giving voice to the worries of ordinary Ghanaians who keenly feel the threat to their water. If WE and NCAP's other allies can force Biwater and the other companies to withdraw their bids then NCAP will have a chance to push for reform that will really help the poor.

WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

I propose we write to Larry Magor, Chief Executive Officer of Biwater asking them to pull out of Ghana. Please make the following points:
  • Biwater should withdraw its bid to manage Ghana's urban water supply.
  • The contract for Ghana's water supply that Biwater is bidding for will further impoverish the people of Ghana and fail to improve access to water. It faces huge public opposition within Ghana.
  • Any contract like the current one, which lacks opportunity for competition, responsibility to bring new money to renew or expand services, or accountability for delivering water to poor people inevitably means worse access to water and should not be entered into by a responsible company.
  • Biwater claims to hold itself to the highest standards of ethics. In that case it should withdraw from this bid.
ANY DRAFT PROPOSALS WILL BE OK BEFORE WE SEND IT TO THEM

@moderators i bet it will be better if you help in drafting in in a word format so it can be much easier to view it in MS WORD

 



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 Posted: Monday January 10th, 2005 09:37

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these guys(BIWATER) ARE CLEARLY AGAINST THEIR CORPORATE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES  plse read what they say  while doing someting else in Ghana:

http://www.biwater.com/our_company/our_repsonsibilities.html



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 Posted: Monday January 10th, 2005 10:07

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Ummm what about Poor Black Brits.......how can you hel them?

PaRrIs



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 Posted: Monday January 10th, 2005 10:29

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Now, now PaRris remember the eightfold path ;)



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