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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday June 29th, 2006 19:38 |
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Definately Dr Lez & Dr Gloria...they were on point..we also had a good convo upstairs with Mekeda Graham.....I also happen to have her book..
I thought however there was too much grandstanding by certain men, who absolutely insist on sharing their 'wisdom' with us...I have to say after a few years of this..it really begins to grate...
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lilthuggy
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Posted: Thursday June 29th, 2006 19:45 |
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Yup. There were certain people who just felt like they had to speak, however it was not just men, there was also a woman who had a lot to share too....
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday June 29th, 2006 19:47 |
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lilthuggy wrote: Yup. There were certain people who just felt like they had to speak, however it was not just men, there was also a woman who had a lot to share too....
Oh I know just who you mean as well....she was the light skinned, bulging eyes woman who had fire in her belly.....LOL
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lilthuggy
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Posted: Thursday June 29th, 2006 19:57 |
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 Yep, that is who I meant! Some of the stuff she was saying was...lets say 'interesting'.
So where were you sitting?
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday June 29th, 2006 20:09 |
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| Three rows in from the front....
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lilthuggy
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Posted: Thursday June 29th, 2006 20:12 |
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 Ok, I'm none the wiser....
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday June 29th, 2006 20:14 |
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| I was wearing a short sleaved cream shirt...if you were looking...
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lilthuggy
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Posted: Thursday June 29th, 2006 22:02 |
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hmmmm....
I wasn't really looking around much to be honest, however....
Were you in the middle? Glasses?
You should definitely put the video's on this thread, very powerful stuff indeed.
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interested 1
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Posted: Friday June 30th, 2006 11:26 |
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@ Kunjufu and Lilthuggy
U both should just put a picture of yourselves on so we all can see, because we aint getting nowhere.....
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FredB
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Posted: Friday June 30th, 2006 17:03 |
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Ladies, Big apolgies. Could not inform you that the event had been switched, given I was working abroad. Felt really bad and I am glad some good soul manage to get the message out that the venue was changed.
Kunjufu glad you found sister Makeda inspiring and informative. Stayed away from the social work stuff myself but glad you came by and never know bro you can come and give a presentation yourself
FB
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FredB
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Posted: Friday June 30th, 2006 17:29 |
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Kunjufu said
"Oh I know just who you mean as well....she was the light skinned, bulging eyes woman who had fire in her belly.....LOL
Take my word that woman has a problem of an emotional nature. Saw her at another meeting where she was going ballastic and talking about she is mixed race and proud of this and that and just ranting like somebody had a problem with her or actually cared.
A particular brother whose name starts with an S and ends with a Cus...Really needs a slapping. But knowing him that is just the attention he wants.
FB
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FredB
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Posted: Friday June 30th, 2006 17:35 |
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@Kunjufu saidI recorded Dr Gloria Graham..who I agree was absolutely on point with many of her observations.
I then recorded Leerleen Willis, Dr Lez Henry & a Bit of Donna Alexander..
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Then you missed my close bredrins presentation which was on the money and for me one of the highlights of the whole show. A very talented academic dealing with complex and tricky stuff.
You missed something.
FB
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lilthuggy
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Posted: Friday June 30th, 2006 18:17 |
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FredB said:
Then you missed my close bredrins presentation which was on the money and for me one of the highlights of the whole show. A very talented academic dealing with complex and tricky stuff.
You missed something.
FB
.....................................................................................................................................
Was that upstairs at the end?
What were your highlights?
And I agree with you about both that woman and the man beginning with S.
Last edited on Friday June 30th, 2006 18:19 by lilthuggy
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Friday June 30th, 2006 22:28 |
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| FredB..sso was you there too?
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FredB
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 01:26 |
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Lillthuggy. No real highlight as such. But happy about the consistency of presentations and the way they were pitched. Not that it was possible to be at all of them, but I was involved in selecting the papers and that kind of stuff and have heard most of the speakers on many occassions.
Think the balance was not bad between a focus on social work practioners and those interested in applied social theory etc and the stream that dealt with broader stuff.
The presentation I am talking about was Dr Perry's paper in stream 1 after Dr Gordon. That stream dealt with more strategic type issues for want of a better word in providing a framework. His paper was about the gagging and attempts to gag and frustrate African-Centred scholars and our victory against those odds. He analysed the work and response of two of the leading black scholars in the western world Gates and Professor Paul Gilory of the LSE and literally took them apart piece by piece. Showing in effect how they do the white man and the systems bidding, in attempting to fight off something they fear and cannot control. It was the paper most of the academics present wanted to attend and probably will be one of the first papers to be published in the new journal in May 2007.
Copies of all other papers are sent to presenters so they get to see what their colleques are talkiing about and that paper generated a whole heap of e-communication and during and after the conference. Gilroy is big in this country and seen as a god on social theory and everything in between. He was also hailed as a superstar in the US for a while when at Yale. So to see someone take him apart so simply and systematically and expose his real agendas and views on many fundamental issues critical to our interest as a people is something most academics would pay money to see when you consider how high he is held in the view of most.
I was with Dr Perry after he delivered the paper and even before and you could see the amount of fellow academics approaching him and bigging up that paper. Makeda said if there was one paper she wanted to be at was that one. In fact all those academics who were not social work specialist were at that workshop. Gurnam, literally ran from his workshop to get the tail end of that presentation because he is also critical of Gilroy in his work.
So all the workshops were of an acceptable and good quality in terms of what was presented or I hope so which evaluation will reveal or contradict. But that presentation for me was the only one which specifically went out to take on our ideological enemies and expose them and demonstrate the power and potential of the African-Centred perspective. Dr Gordon correctly opened the conference by providing the framework for developing the right approach to Higher Education and developing our people, but Perry went after our enemies and demolished them showing how strong our position and ideas are compared to theirs. His paper is also going to go down very very well with our US cousins which Makeda indicated and we already knew.
So yep. Not a bad day at the office but a lot of room for improvement and development. Man I felt sorry for Donna Alexander. First, nothing worse than when your IT says no and then your time is cut short. To make things worse her paper was a very good one and she was the only non academic who spoke. That's what happens when you get the last bus home shift.
@Kunjufu was I at the conference? Nope
FB
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 09:21 |
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| Fred..yu too lie..where were you, come on cough or else I'll have to have my spies hunt you down lol...
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FredB
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 10:47 |
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@K I was sitting with Lez Henry and Perry. Three of us were together on the right hand side of the hall and say third or forth row from the front.
FB
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 12:04 |
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"I thought however there was too much grandstanding by certain men, who absolutely insist on sharing their 'wisdom' with us...I have to say after a few years of this..it really begins to grate..."
"There were certain people who just felt like they had to speak, however it was not just men, there was also a woman who had a lot to share too...."
"Oh I know just who you mean as well....she was the light skinned, bulging eyes woman who had fire in her belly.....LOL"
"Yep, that is who I meant! Some of the stuff she was saying was...lets say 'interesting'."
"Take my word that woman has a problem of an emotional nature. Saw her at another meeting where she was going ballastic and talking about she is mixed race and proud of this and that and just ranting like somebody had a problem with her or actually cared.
A particular brother whose name starts with an S and ends with a Cus...Really needs a slapping. But knowing him that is just the attention he wants."
The two individuals concerned frequently appear together at events organised in the African community in order to cause as much disruption and confusion as possible. This has gone on for a number of years. It is unclear what either's actual source of income is, or who is financing their activities. It is also unclear what benefit their attendance brings to the events in which they participate.
As one has his own internet radio station, the community can expect to hear more about the event in due course, including a description of what he considers that he contributed to it.
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lilthuggy
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 12:18 |
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Great review FB, I also thought Dr.Perry was very good, and his analysis was also good, and he was right about their being silence; as when you present something to others and have evidence to back it up of course there will be silence.
Donna Alexander...well I was told by my friend about her, how she moved to Africa for some years, and how she is highly intellectual, and I do believe that, but I did not fully understand her presentation, she was asking questions like everyone knew what she was talking about, she should've made it more simple.
I thought it was great day though, I enjoyed all the presentations.
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FredB
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 14:02 |
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lilthuggy. How did you get to all those presentations?. But you are on the money regarding Dr Perry's remarks and that is why his paper was so important to both students and practicising African academics.
When he stated there is two major response to our work, the majority response by whites is to attack unmercifully and destroy. That is the intention and Dr Graham can tell you about an experience she had at her first major white conference and the way they went for her. It is shameful just listening to what she experienced and she is a good academic, but just starting out and trying to feel her way and develop her work, like every body else and white people are no different.
These whites are like animals and a lynch mob, because I know of no black academic or very few, and definitely not black males, who would attack a woman in that way. In fact, black people would not allow their own to go for somebody like that at one of their conferences. We are culturally different in important ways.
So Perry's point was critical and fundamental that we have to produce work, like his, which when it is presented the only response from whites is absolute silence, because they dare not open their mouths. This is exactly what happened to the great Chiek Anta Diop. He was silenced for almost two decades and nobody would publish his work, until he met the late and great Prof JH Clarke. So Perry was really putting down the benchmark about where we need to be as black eduacators and students.
I take your point about Donna's paper and that was raised prior to the conference. But an important goal of the Colloquium and I think it is an honourable and important goal, is to provide a platform for our intellectuals and people of ideas regardless of qualifications can develop and share their thinking. The Colloquium is also going to be settting up workshops to help the inexperienced to develop their writing and intellectual work involving those who are more experienced. So Donna is simply part of that process. Nobody develops genius just like that. It is like all creativity, it develops and is influenced by other things until you have a final product.
@MGL Very pertinent assessment of the individuals in question and absolutely correct. But it shows we have a very long way to go in terms of our maturity and sophistication in developing a movement and our people. In fact as I have said a million times we have regressed and that is understandable, because we have lost too many good and experienced soliders and leaders at all level over 20 years.
This is why I have also always said every thing of importance we do as a people has to be security led and designed with security principles built in. This would include the conference or Blacknet for that matter or somene like Legali who is involved in strategically important work.
No meeting I organise or my people are involved in would ever have that type of problem. We don't usually organise large things anyway. But during the peak of the movement that sh*t simply did not happen, because we had a very well developed and experience security infrastructure.
Profiling internal ememies or those who could cause harm is the basic work of a second tier security officer. Bread and butter work which everyone must do. You don't wait until a fool comes to your meeting so that you have to manhandle him or her in large numbers which is never good and always leaves a bad taste in the mouth and affects decent people of all ages who attend our communal events with good intentions.
So having a good knowledge of these people which is gained by simply going to all meetings and simply listening and observing and making mental notes and feeding it back to your supervisor is how it works. We can then approach them long time before any meeting and explain to them in legal terms the folly of their ways and either instruct them how they will behave from now on or tell them to never to put their foot at one of your functions again. Works every time. All laws and rules and principles as my old boss use to say have to be protected and enforced and requires people whose job is to be the guardian of these delicate issues.
But the problem is never a technical one and always a political one and why I dislike political leaders no matter how important they are or how loved they are by the people. They allow fools to mash up and disrupt our stuff because they don't have the balls or wait too long before they make the right decisions. I know Collloquium members are not happy about these fools, but I also know only a small number of essentially male academics who are radical anyway and come from that background who would be prepared to take hard action against these type of individuals. And that my friend from many years of hard experience is the classic dilema a security officer always finds himself in. Not about not having technical know how to deal with these fools, but having the balls to give the red light to do what has to be be done.
Look how long my man has been on the scene. When I was a youth and becoming active he was already involved long time. So he has been disrupting meetings for nearly 30 years, disheartening our people, setting a terrible example of social behaviour or illustration of conciousness and I can go on.
He should have been stopped long time ago, along with Darcus and a whole heap of them who think they are beyond our rules and reasonable expectations when you come into our house. Until we learn that maxim that we control our space and will enforce that principle in a very very serious way, we will always have these fools to deal with.
But this year was not as bad a last year where we had this mixed race feminist who really was looking for a slap in the mouth and wanted to dominate the whole proceedings on behalf of black women, despite the fact most sisters there wanted to throw her arse out. Many of these mixed race black conciousness folk need to see a therapist first before they come to our functions and want to work out their sh*t on our dime.
FB
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lilthuggy
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 14:16 |
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FB I meant, all the presentations that I was present at I thoroughly enjoyed.
Re: your comments about destroying work I know where you are coming from, not personally, but after hearing some of the stories I have been told by others I know exactly what you mean.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 19:35 |
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FredB wrote:
But the problem is never a technical one and always a political one and why I dislike political leaders no matter how important they are or how loved they are by the people. They allow fools to mash up and disrupt our stuff because they don't have the balls or wait too long before they make the right decisions. I know Collloquium members are not happy about these fools, but I also know only a small number of essentially male academics who are radical anyway and come from that background who would be prepared to take hard action against these type of individuals. And that my friend from many years of hard experience is the classic dilema a security officer always finds himself in. Not about not having technical know how to deal with these fools, but having the balls to give the red light to do what has to be be done.
Look how long my man has been on the scene. When I was a youth and becoming active he was already involved long time. So he has been disrupting meetings for nearly 30 years, disheartening our people, setting a terrible example of social behaviour or illustration of conciousness and I can go on.
He should have been stopped long time ago, along with Darcus and a whole heap of them who think they are beyond our rules and reasonable expectations when you come into our house. Until we learn that maxim that we control our space and will enforce that principle in a very very serious way, we will always have these fools to deal with.
Fred: interesting insight about the above event, but in truth we can't continually blame outside forces for these people....its not science, its not a conspirancy like MGL would like to believe..it is essentially as you say..the end result of years of our own failure to make standard a set of expected behaviours at events such as these. The truth is that we get the type of meetings we deserve... I completely agree with you Fred, that there has been a ltotal ack of backbone within the BLACK movement to openly critque those who behave as if they were above the law...
It seems to me that there is a prevailing view that if someone is an 'activist' then they are above reproach and above criticism even, when their behaviour is completely out of order...and disrespectful.
I think it is way too easy to target and openly criticise these two people as examples of this, when in truth I have seen only too often other to as much if not worse they than they did on that day...These two people i suspect are only replicating what they have seen many others do time and time again over the years.....
This is partly why I personally stopped attending such events..because they become less about stirring black public opinion, less about sparking a debate and more and more about people using it as a vehicles to grandstand and to position themselves at the head of the table...
When I discussed this meeting the following day with various people, the overwhelming feedback is that people see this type of behaviour as more of a problem, than those we face from Europeans... So when are people going to learn that standing up and behaving like this isn't advancing the BLACK agenda, the message of committment..it is having if anything the reverse effect..by turning good committed people away from the struggle...
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 20:21 |
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(removed by the Moderation team)Last edited on Saturday July 1st, 2006 20:30 by Kunjufu
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Posted: Saturday July 1st, 2006 20:32 |
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@ K what is there to say. We get the men we deserve. The women we deserve and quality of leaders and meetings we deserve. But the thing that pisses me off is get the organisers together and try to come to a clear decison on these fools and see what happens. Some fool will come up with some big African philosophy stupidness about we cannot exclude our peoploe and we have the duty to educate or tolerate and all that sh*te.
We just ain't ready. One day but not now. And of course it puts good people off because it shows what we will tolerate and the contradiction between what we say and what we do. People aint as stupid as so calll concious people think they are.
All you have to do is really put the foot down hard with a couple and the word gets around quickly and most of the organisers of events don't even have the spine to take some discomfort for a short while for a greater good.
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