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~Gemini~
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Posted: Tuesday November 18th, 2003 00:31 |
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Stealth Black wrote:
I'm African and its the case in my family do I now remove myself from Africa cause of that.nah ...thats just me personally,but in Afro- Caribbeans cases I can understand that,but culture wise I thnik Africans is still prominent and it should not be a symbol of distres for you;
African culture is not that prominat in the caribbean with the exception of maybe Haiti and Cuba. Your whole post is wrong
.
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Lalia
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Posted: Tuesday November 18th, 2003 01:49 |
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athaba wrote:
@Lalia
Our Nationality is where were from and our culture..but were all from one Human Race that originated from African, that is the same for everyone on this Earth including White, Asian and everyother catergory of Human.
Well I don't think whites are black in a sense,...they just evolve...
Lalia I don't understand you. How can you say that we are all from Africa, (having checked out the links you displayed, that would suggest it too), then say that you don't think whites came from blacks? You went on to say that you believe that they, (whites), had evolved (just like blacks?). Yes of course they evolved otherwise they still would be black!
The only reason I can think of why you think like you do, is because perhaps, you believe that we all came from apes, and that perhaps they were still apes when they went into Europe? Is this the case?
No...I don't believe we come from Apes, thats not what I mean't . I do know whites are just as much of decesended of African as we all are.
But in saying that Race whether Black or White is really not a accurate term to use in describing where we come from. When we begin to unmask these terms they really never define who we truly are. The word Black is sucha broad term in general. My understand to be Black could mean a state of mind or color and many other separate meanings, rolled into one that may contradict it self, or it maybe totally different in how you or anyone percieves it mean..but it is not a Race.
So when I said I don't think whites are black in a sense,...they just evolve. I should have mention this partial quote...."Humans were basically one skin color (darkly pigmented) (you might say black) when they all lived in equatorial Africa. Within the past several hundred thousand years, as humans spread out to the north and south of the equator this particular phenotypical trait can be seen in terms of a gradual gradient reflecting lighter skin color (you might say white) the further north or south from the equator that humans settled. This gradation in skin color is usually understood as involving
the risk/benefit of ultraviolet radiation vs. intake of vitamin D.
Biological Anthropologists have found many clines for numerous human
biological traits some fairly simple and others very complicated." Much of this quote is from this link http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/sep99/937415117.Ev.r.html
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Stealth Black
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Posted: Tuesday November 18th, 2003 02:25 |
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@ Gemini is not that what I said you made mention of the whole caribbean when I know personally people from cuba and in countries like haiti and dominican republic and the other mainly spanish speaking or french islands where they speak full African languages,how am I wrong.
Because I'm not from there does that mean I know nothing,Jamaica for instance is different because of the huge mix of Africans that went forcibly taken there right from gambia to cameroon and congo so I can definetly see why there is not such a strong link to Africa as the island as so strategically,economically important to the British out of all the British controlled islands that they went about extreme means to make sure all were nsynchronisation.
by which way do you mean your xulture does not bare a larger resemblence to certain African tribes(not Africa)cause it damn sure ain't English to me maybe a few town names ,sites,cricket sport,I will say yeah that your cuisine is quite broad in a sence to style and influences of which I see new innovations but the base ingridients that I have personally seen hhmmmhh!
Is it native caribs, because mate the good strong 95% of them had een wiped out before the bulk of Africans had reached there( 1700's)and that there I have researched myself (slavery and abolition vols)the only thing I know of fully to come from natives is the jerking of chicken,which is not something unsual in Africa what you think we just eat plain chicken ,but I know the smokeing style was innovated by them or the offspring of these unions.
I'm just going by what I've read and seen and researched I would not talk if I was not sure of what I was on about , but happy to relay with you I here to learn as well as be inspired please reply -
peace out.
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Stealth Black
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Posted: Tuesday November 18th, 2003 02:37 |
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back agian quickly, yeah to me the debate on evolution darwins theory and all that is a tricky one , me personally I believe that yeah the first humans were and came out of Africa but isn't it possible that there may have been a cross regional evolution, one reason most whites don't even believe that theory and secondly to me that and such statements I find very sympathetic towards the whites they have not suffered or even began to like us AFRICANS HAVE THROUGH HISTORY so for me to refer to the most destructive 'race' on this planet as children of Africa .. naahh! can't sit with that one to comfortably right now if you check where I'm coming from.
Also when people say there is one race ,I dont understand that, when you look at the 'mammal 'world they break them down to species even for the same kind so where does that leave us saying there is one race?
During prehistoric times there were different species of the ape- like homo that wlked the earth,just so happens the homo erectus>homo sapien survived to this present day in that sense I can agree kind of but what of the other would not have eveolved into black,white asian if they had survived? sounds mad but thisis a serous question would they then having the same colur and features minus evolved anatomies wouldthey be classed as the same as another homo sapien from the same regionat the time in that period?
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Maximus
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Posted: Tuesday November 18th, 2003 02:43 |
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You know you presume to much who said I only listen to rap. Lemme tell you and untitled something who I noticed jumped on the band wagon. Just cause I don't like the music from a woman with a voice 2 octaves lower than mine doesn't automatically mean I think rap is all black people make you prat. I f you were to check my music collection you'd find Talib Kweli and thats it i've got more rock music than rap music. You missed the point go back and read it properly before you come at me with your preconceptive bullsh*t.Punk.Shinobi
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Saida.M
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Posted: Tuesday November 18th, 2003 03:06 |
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@Lalia
...."Humans were basically one skin color (darkly pigmented) (you might say black)
Yes I do.
as humans spread out to the north and south of the equator this particular phenotypical trait can be seen in terms of a gradual gradient reflecting lighter skin color (you might say white)
Yes again.
Reading your post and the link you gave, it still sounds like white from black to me. Also, I agree that we are and always were, humans (all of us), but that just make the case for whites coming from black all the more stronger. By using words such as 'clines', doesn't tell me that whites wasn't once black. It just reinforces it. It seem to me that someone is TRYING to confuse it by seemingly wanting to disassociate from the fact that ALL HUMANS WERE ONCE BLACK (as in African - as in African Race). But I don't want to get pedantic here, I can appreciate that billions of years later people would rather be of a caucasion/negro race or whatever, but I would rather it be known that everyone knows at the very least, the theories/facts of all of our origin.
STEALTH BLACK Read mine and Lalia's postings.
Last edited on Tuesday November 18th, 2003 03:25 by Saida.M
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~Gemini~
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Posted: Tuesday November 18th, 2003 04:09 |
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Stealth Black wrote:
by which way do you mean your xulture does not bare a larger resemblence to certain African tribes(not Africa)cause it damn sure ain't English to me maybe a few town names ,sites,cricket sport,I will say yeah that your cuisine is quite broad in a sence to style and influences of which I see new innovations but the base ingridients that I have personally seen hhmmmhh!
Is it native caribs, because mate the good strong 95% of them had een wiped out before the bulk of Africans had reached there( 1700's)and that there I have researched myself (slavery and abolition vols)the only thing I know of fully to come from natives is the jerking of chicken,which is not something unsual in Africa what you think we just eat plain chicken ,but I know the smokeing style was innovated by them or the offspring of these unions.
I'm just going by what I've read and seen and researched I would not talk if I was not sure of what I was on about , but happy to relay with you I here to learn as well as be inspired please reply -
peace out.
So if my culture is not English it must be African? Don't be silly its a mixture of cultures, also the English were not the only Europeans to control Jamaica, the Spanish and Portuguese were there first and most certainly left their mark (escovitch fish, rice and peas etc). The biggest influence on Jamaican food comes from India though. The arawaks had little influence apart from like you said Jerk and bammy. Also, who said Africans eat plain chicken? Nobody eats plain chicken, spicing chicken doesn't come from Africa. The African influence comes in the form of Ackee, which is actually a fruit from Africa, eaten with saltfish it makes a popular breakfast dish.
Also I mentioned Cuba and Haiti having arguable a strong African influence, but thats mainly because of Cuba's size and the Haitian revolution.
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Lalia
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Posted: Tuesday November 18th, 2003 14:14 |
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athaba wrote:
@Lalia
...."Humans were basically one skin color (darkly pigmented) (you might say black)
Yes I do.
as humans spread out to the north and south of the equator this particular phenotypical trait can be seen in terms of a gradual gradient reflecting lighter skin color (you might say white)
Yes again.
Reading your post and the link you gave, it still sounds like white from black to me. Also, I agree that we are and always were, humans (all of us), but that just make the case for whites coming from black all the more stronger. By using words such as 'clines', doesn't tell me that whites wasn't once black. It just reinforces it. It seem to me that someone is TRYING to confuse it by seemingly wanting to disassociate from the fact that ALL HUMANS WERE ONCE BLACK (as in African - as in African Race). But I don't want to get pedantic here, I can appreciate that billions of years later people would rather be of a caucasion/negro race or whatever, but I would rather it be known that everyone knows at the very least, the theories/facts of all of our origin.
My first reaction was why after all the facts stated  why you still don't understand and now your saying whites come from blacks?
Ok Keypoints to rememeber 
"Africa is the birth place of Humanity"
"Black and White is a color it is not a Race" but it is a term we use anyway
as humans spread out to the north and south of the equator this particular phenotypical trait can be seen in terms of a gradual gradient reflecting lighter skin color (you might say white) not necessarily
I forgot to add that could also include American Indian, Asian, Australian, European, Indian, Melanesian, Micronesian, and Polynesian. They are not White
Nowadays there is a mixture of all these races groups. Most African(Blacks) Americans (including myself) in the United States are a mixture European and American Indian so you'll see a wide color scheme in our group of people from fair to dark or inbetween.
It's funny how we can say African is Black, but yet because we aren't from African some will say we're not African we're Black? Is this a contradict or a confusion *shakes head*
To you Athaba African is Black and to me I believe the same,
The Origins of White and all Races does comes from Black nowadays vice versa
Heres a book I Highly reccommend every black,white, & any races person to get by Fredrick K Price - Race, Racism and Religion Series
thttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1883798361/qid=1069135737/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/002-3013311-1315232?v=glance&s=books
I wanted to use this as a reference from the beginning my post because this is were I recieved my basis as African is the birthplace of Humanity, I don't have it right now but plan on getting it ASAP...It taught me the issue of Race and Racism and Religion...It broke it down..So Athaba if you can get it, I'll definately get it and maybe we could discuss it more like in a book club fashion...Take a look inside and check out the Reviews:  let me know whatchu think, thanxs
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1883798361/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-3013311-1315232#reader-page
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Hawaii-Cat
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Posted: Tuesday November 18th, 2003 15:21 |
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Both parents from the "treasonous" portion of
the United States (i.e. the Confederate
"Southern States") -- Father (from Alabama)
and Mother (Virginia) relocated to and
met & married in New Jersey (where I was
conceived & born).
Racially, both of my parents were decended
from slavery and descended from heavily
racially mixed lineages -- more so my paternal
line which descends not only from "African"
slavery but also from "Native American"
(a.k.a. "American Indian") slaves.
My tri-racial background derives from
several different ethnic groups, including
West African (area of origin unknown),
Scotch-Irish, English, Southeastern American
Indian (nation groups unknown). As a result,
I have a light reddish complexion, dark brown
"poofy" curly hair, dark brown eyes; and though
most people tend to quickly recognize my more
Africanesque features I tend more to notice the
Native Ameircan similarities.
Married a tall black woman (a little bit of
racially mixed -- I suspect her grandmother was
half-white, but I never inquired about it), divorced
two years later, no children.
Maybe that's a little more information than you
were asking for, but I don't mind sharing.
~ Aloha.
Last edited on Tuesday November 18th, 2003 15:28 by Hawaii-Cat
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LadyDay
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Posted: Wednesday November 19th, 2003 02:41 |
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| stealth black i am not concerned about features etc, a few have grasped my point. there is no need for me to repeat. Basically just because your "black" does not mean you must have some form of allegience with Africa. This does not mean that you deny your ancestors history. or whatever connections you may have directly or indirectly with "africa". How many europeans english at that are saying they come from vikings andnomadic people etc. how far back must you go for your identity that satisfies all. so there is africa but there is asia europe etc. i have a friend whose dad is white and mother mix black african and white irish. from what many say she should call herself black when in fact she is of mixed cultures. if your africanin origin that is cool. if you are of different cultures and continents that cool two. as Jamaicans say out of many one people
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Stealth Black
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Posted: Wednesday November 19th, 2003 03:50 |
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@ Gemini blood I never said your culture was purely African or you should look to African,I just said that the mix of African is overriding in my view,plus who many Jamaicans speak Spanish,none and few and far between that I have seen ,I've only met one family that could that had Spanish ancestory from Cuba;Yeah I know the Spanish where there they fought a war with the British for the Island and early slaves that took to the hills.
@LadyDay if you are half chinese or born in China does that make you Chinese?????
When you clearly don't look Chinese by a long shot,my sister has taken on features from a Chinese Great grandmother on my paternal side does that make her chinese,when I don't look a damn no where near that,my point is even though it maybe there and like I said before obviously my African genes have overrode on that ,so in mind and body I could never have any link to make me say yeah I have a part hear if yo if you asked me in a deep conversation and if I knew you for a lentgh of time ,but what would you say to my sibling?
You might not watch physical, but so many do thats why we are classified today,and thats why humans have classified each other from time morning from Biblical times and that;check if you think i'm talking ish who europeans refered to each other.
'How many europeans english at that are saying they come from vikings andnomadic people etc. how far ' is what you say caus e theyhave no culture to talk of because their so damn ignorant.
These are the people you look up to? You should know the history of England and the English what ever kind of English they are don't like to speak of this country cause in fact it has a history of being conquested for really and truely if you check it most English are an amalgment of Norse(Viking,Danes,Norman,Saxon,Celt,Brit,)CHECK A SURMNAME AND YOU COULD EASILY FIND OUT I have seen quite a few documentary of anthropoligic studies on particular sites in the country where the populations are more than likely to be decendents of these people,The English are much more very proud of their Naval Voyages and colonial conquests
'Royal Britania Britinia rule the waves we shall we shall never ever be slaves' ???????
or so the song says as I've heard at Football matches back in the days.
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~Gemini~
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Posted: Thursday November 20th, 2003 17:29 |
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Stealth Black wrote:
I just said that the mix of African is overriding in my view,
Your view is wrong
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Stealth Black
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Posted: Thursday November 20th, 2003 23:05 |
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@Gemini Oxford dictionary definition of culture -
'refined understanding of the arts,customs and civilisation'
World Book Dictionary Definiton -
'Civiliastion of a given people or nation atbany given time or over all time, itsw customs its arts'
Out of all these could you please tell me were any or all influences internal or external have effected Jamaica or the West Indies ,I see a J maican flag so I would suppose you could elaborate on your country first.
I have found a couple other definitons if what I have said does not sit with you and to furhter back up my arguement.
Culture Centre - 'The place from which a cultural trait or culture complex has eminated from OR where it is found in its most REPRESENTATIVE FORM.
Culture Diffusion - 'The pattern by which a trait or pattern of culture spreads outward from the point of origin'.
By which I would say the LARGELY African presence there would have a more defiant cultural TRAIT.@ gemini
DO you in Jamaica speak spanish? no!,Do you speak Portugese? No!,A FEW CHOICE MEALS DOESN'T MAKE YOUR CULTURE SPANISH,EVEN THOUGH I AGREE THEY WERE THERE AND HAD PRESENCE ,MAYBE ON THE RUNAWAYS BUT NOT THE MAJORITY OF YOUR COUNTRY.
PLUS NO NEED TO REFER TO ME WITH DISMISALS IF YOU DON'T AGREE HAVE A BIT MORE MANNERS.
LIKE WHAT I SAID CHECK OVER THE DEFINITONS I HAVE GIVEN YOU AND TELL ME WHERE EACH FITS IN.
ALSO JAMIACA HAVING MORE INFLUENCE FROM INDIA?LIKE I SAID A FEW CHOICE MEALS AND A SMALL POPULATION DOES NOT MAKE YOUR WHOLE CULTURE INDIAN UNLESS THESE PEOPLE HOLD ALOT OF POLITICAL INFLUENCE AND ECONOMIC INFLUENCE WICH PEOPL MAY WANT TO EMULATE IN TERMS OF TO MOVE UP SOCIAL LADDERS.
LASTLY IN ENGLAND TO MAIN DISH IS CHICKEN KORMA HERE WHICH HAS REPLACED THE 'FISH 'N' CHIPS' IS ENGLISH CULTURE NORTH INDIAN.
FOR YEARS COUNTRIES BEFORE THEY WERE COUNTRIES AND PEOPLES HAVE TRADED GOODS SUCH AS SPICES,METALS,CLOTHES/MATERIALS I MEAN WARS WERE THOGUHT OVER CONTROL OF THE TRADE OF SUCH THINGS SO ITS TO NO SURPRISE WHAT YOU MAY PERSONALLY HAVE ALLEGIANCE TO COMING FROM A RACIAL MELTING POT AS YOURS SO TO SPEAK....
IN THE U.K CAN YOU SAY WE ARE MULTICULTURAL WHEN 97% OF THE COUNTRY IS FROM A LOOK ANGLO-SAXON,SCANDANAVIAN AND FRENCH BACKGROUND
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Posted: Thursday November 20th, 2003 23:09 |
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| You know what I don't even wanna argue about this you got your views I got mine,I ain't been to Jamaica but my Sister and Father have and they made some sharp comparisons of Kingston to place and cities like Lagos.anyway just your view.
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~Gemini~
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Posted: Thursday November 20th, 2003 23:54 |
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Jesus christ stealth black
I said Jamaica is a MIX of cultures, no one is more prominent than the other, and African culture was largley eroded because they weren't allowed to practice it and through race mixing, thus it, its not overidding. And where did I say Jamaicans spoke spanish or Portugeues? I said they had a influence just like every other group that settled on the island. But Jamaicans speak English so according to your logic, our culture is mostly English right?
errrrm India has had the most influence on Jamaican food! From the spices used, to Jamaica's favourite dishes. I never said our culture was Indian. Its a MIX of spanish, portugues, West African, English, East Indian, Jewish (rastafarianism), Chinese, middles eastern, German. Thats what Jamaican culture is today.
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~Gemini~
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Posted: Thursday November 20th, 2003 23:55 |
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Stealth Black wrote:
You know what I don't even wanna argue about this you got your views I got mine,I ain't been to Jamaica but my Sister and Father have and they made some sharp comparisons of Kingston to place and cities like Lagos.anyway just your view.
Sorry I don't see the similarities
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Karen Applewhite
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Posted: Friday November 21st, 2003 00:07 |
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IAM OF WEST INDIAN DECENT IAM PART INDIAN (COOLIE AS THEY CALL IT BACK HOME ) AND PART BLACK , BUT INDEED I CONSIDER MYSELF TO BE A BLACK WOMEN. IAM FROM GUYANA , GEORGETOWN TO BE PRECISE. I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT MY CULTURE AND UPBRINGING , WEST INDIANS HAVE IT GOIN ON FOR SURE......
KAREN,  
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Karen Applewhite
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Posted: Friday November 21st, 2003 00:10 |
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Blackpearl wrote:
Both parents are from Guyana.
@ BLACKpearl : NICE TO ENCOUNTER A FELLOW GUYANESE ON BLACKNET
Karen,
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shyness
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Posted: Friday November 21st, 2003 01:17 |
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blackstealth i kinda agree wid you.
i would say i am from Ghana, becuaes my mother is born there and my father..but then at the same time if we want to go deep into roots, my father and his family oroginate from egypt and my mother has european blood runin through her veins..what do i call myself then?
funnily enough wen ppl used to ask me were i am born and i tell them new jersy, they be like you american then..and i used to argue with them tellin them no.. i am african.
i came to england at a young age and now have an english accent, i cant speak my language but understand it, i been ghana and it is beautiful but i was still seen as a foreigner...
we should all be happy with whatever we want ourselves to be, if u wanna be recognised as british fair enough, african ameriacan cool, jamaican why not?.
yes we all know that we are of african decent fair enough but we should not force people to forget about their cultures.
personally i am not offended wen ppl say they are not from afrika because really an truly neither am i...lol
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Stealth Black
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Posted: Friday November 21st, 2003 03:04 |
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@ Gemini same way you can't tell me nuttin, were you there with them??????
Look end of the day you are what you are,my main point is go take yourslef india see if the don't put your black ass in indentured labour insaudi arabia and tell them your culture indian.
I AIN'T EVEN GONNA WASTE NO MO' TIME ARGUEING WITH YOU I JST DON'T LIKE THE WAY YOU DISMISS MY CONTINENT OF ORIGIN, I JUST GO BY WHAT I'VE SEEN IN MY FAMILIES HISTORY AND GEOGRAPHIC LOCATIONS ,MAYBE WERE THE LUCKY FEW THAT MAAINTAINED CONTACT WITH THOSE IN THE INDIES AND SOUTH AMERICA BE IT PEACE AND BLESSINGS JAMAICAN.
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Stealth Black
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Posted: Friday November 21st, 2003 03:11 |
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1 more thing be it they have been to both parts of the world and you haven't.
I think you've got a tarzan imagery of parts of Africa remeber Africa is just as diverse and when I say Africa I'm not talking specifically the whole continent.
any way I'm done bruv I'd rather chat 'bout suttin else,you got your views I'm just looking from another angle don't for one think I'm trying to force any kind of thought on you I just check it square.
With all those people being and having been at Africa would you say Africans today aren't Africans -seperate question I know the answer.
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LadyDay
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Posted: Friday November 21st, 2003 03:14 |
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stealth black
areyou saying that Africa is a dominant culture wherever you come from and do you agree with the americans on the one drop law..........the singer amerie is half Korean and Half African American. from what you say she is black. she however embraces both and is mixed
i aint african if you are so what
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Posted: Friday November 21st, 2003 03:34 |
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@Gemini and ladyday your missing the whole point in a wetern society your welcome to claim both I'm not saying that on a persoanl tip I don't no gemini or his family history to tell him that but if I where to put certain NOT ALL COUNTRIES UNDER A SCOPE I WOUD SAY THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT TRAITS i.e which means distigishable features YEAH!!! THAT I CAN ASSOCIATE WITH AFRICA AT FIRST GLANCE LOOKING DEEPER AS GEMINI HAS ENLIGHTENED ME WITH OF WHICH I'M NOT OBLIVIOUS TO BUT JUST WANTED TO HEAR FROM THE HORSE MOUTH.
DON'T THINK I AM IGNORANT YOUR ALMOST TALKING TO ME AS IF I'M WHITE COMMON NOW CHILL YOURSELF OUT I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD FORGET ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THAT MAKES YOU THE PERSON YOU ARE,BE WHO YOU ARE I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SEE YOURSELF AS, CAUSE IT DON'T PROHIBIT ME.
WHEN I SPEAK I SPEAK ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCES I DON'T SPECULATE; AMERIE IS OBVIOUSLY MIXED RACE,BUT PUT HER WITHIN EITHER COMMUNITY AND WHAT OR WHICH WILL BE MORE ACCEPTING OR EASIER FOR HER TO ASSIMLATE INTO.
I CAN TELL YOU STORIES SO DON'T THINK I'M ON THIS ONE DROP RULE THATS THE WHITE MAN RULE NOT MINE BUT LIKE I SAID SIGNIFICANT TRAITS IS A FACTOR THERE.
I CAN NEVER CALL MYSELF ENGLISH BECAUSE I'M BLACK AFRICAN,FURTHER MORE MOST INDEGEONOUS WHITES WOULD NOT HAVE IT I REFER TO MYSELF AS SUCH ;SO THINK ABOUT THAT BEFORE YOU GO THINKING I'M INCITING PREFERENCE ON MIXED PEOPLE OR WEST |
