Eerr, am a bit lost....what the hell is a Hispanic man having a say about what African Americans should or should not say?
Oh and if that man is a bloody Professor, then i might as well quit Uni and become a Dr of political science! The man is dumb.....nothing he said made any sense at all....
Mezmerized wrote: Eerr, am a bit lost....what the hell is a Hispanic man having a say about what African Americans should or should not say?
Oh and if that man is a bloody Professor, then i might as well quit Uni and become a Dr of political science! The man is dumb.....nothing he said made any sense at all....
LOL...Hispanic. Professor Dyson is just a light-skinned Diasporic African in America, sis...or maybe that was a joke. He actually has a couple popular works on MLK, Civil Rights, and the like; hence why he was invited to the State of the Black Union in 2005 (where this speech comes from).
Last edited on Tuesday March 20th, 2007 13:52 by Shemsi en Tehuti
Was reading an African account of enslavement on the continent, the europeans would reffer to their slaves as, ''dogs'' the most notable was that they would always reffer to the women as, ''b**ches''. That one needs to stop.
I like the psycology involved in using the word ''N****r'', enough to confuse most people but its an American thing, it dosen't float else where and I'm glad to be honest. Things like that only let others think they can abuse us and our women.
Was a bit of an accident at a roundabout in Wood Green last week, no ones car was hit, was only a bit of bad driving but one Kurdish man jumped out of his car having nearly caused the accident and started laying punches into one sista while she was in her car, his friend ran over as though to stop him but they both went at her punching her about and 'ish before driving off, my pops chased them in his car and called the feds but for real being degraded or degrading ourselves leads to stuff like that happening as well as kids being approached by gun dealers and drug addicts.
Not cool, shows where our minds are.
Last edited on Tuesday March 20th, 2007 13:31 by Apedemak
I like the psycology involved in using the word ''N****r'', enough to confuse most people but its an American thing, it dosen't float else where and I'm glad to be honest. Things like that only let others think they can abuse us and our women.
You're right about it being an American thing and not floating anywhere else, nor should it float anywhere else. America is not everywhere else,and vice versa. It developed and continues to be used among some in this group of Africans for a reason. It doesn't have to make sense anywhere else to be valid, anymore than stuff that goes on other places, HAS to or does, make sense here. BTW, I do agree with him, but ya'll knew that already.
What's up Mez? Good to see u. Dyson a Hispanic?; Mez still has jokes for days,lol.
BTW, things like that have nothing to do with others thinking they can use and abuse us. They thought that LONG before Black folks started using the N-word and they'll still think it ,if we all miraculously STOP using the N word, one of these days.
Last edited on Tuesday March 20th, 2007 13:46 by Gmahogany.
LOL...Hispanic. Professor Dyson is just a light-skinned Diasporic African in America, sis...or maybe that was a joke. He actually has a couple popular works on MLK, Civil Rights, and the like; hence why he was invited to the State of the Black Union in 2005 (where this speech comes from).
No i wasn't joking....C'mon, the man is going on about us people of color blahh blahh... I KNOW what light skinned people do look like you Africa is not just Alek Weks and Djimou Hounsou....that Professor ain't just light skinneed, that man is clearly something else and has no business telling Africans such nonesense. Anyways, i am still shocked at the amount of AA that were clamping and laughing....
Mezmerized wrote: No i wasn't joking....C'mon, the man is going on about us people of color blahh blahh... I KNOW what light skinned people do look like you Africa is not just Alek Weks and Djimou Hounsou....that Professor ain't just light skinneed, that man is clearly something else and has no business telling Africans such nonesense. Anyways, i am still shocked at the amount of AA that were clamping and laughing....
Indeed...sad isn't it.
Last edited on Tuesday March 20th, 2007 14:52 by Shemsi en Tehuti
BTW, I do agree with him, but ya'll knew that already.
Can't watch it as I'm away from my desk but why do you agree with him? Shemsi made a topic about it before, even ''consiouss'' musicians use it which I don't get. I mean Jeru the Damaga rant on about this and that but then reffers to himself as a N****r of all things.
Is there a kudos in using a term that was/is used against us? Should we start calling ourselves monkeys and all the other names and terms they coined for us?...
Is it all clever reverse psycology we should apply to other things as well?
I'm bored...I'm bored with this topic too, but if folks are gonna keep making threads about it, I'll keep responding....
BTW, I do agree with him, but ya'll knew that already.
Can't watch it as I'm away from my desk but why do you agree with him? Shemsi made a topic about it before, even ''consiouss'' musicians use it which I don't get. I mean Jeru the Damaga rant on about this and that but then reffers to himself as a N****r of all things.If u do watch it, you may feel differently. You'll have to answer that question for yourself. All I can do is tell u that myself along with MYRIAD other intelligent, conscious Black folks do use the word, and it somehow doesn't interfere with our consciousness/or good works for the Black collective. As a person who objects to the word, that would make ME reevaluate my continuing obsession with those who do choose to use the word, in some intances. It would make me say, maybe the mindset/motivation/conclusions that I'm attaching to this word because of my OWN slant/view, is NOT the same mindset/motivation of some of these obviously intelligent/conscious people who occasionally use the word, so MAYBE, I need to start focusing on what area of commonality I have with them, and their WORKS, rather than trying to browbeat them in talking the way I talk, but that's just me....... In this 2 1/2 minute segment Dyson was speaking truth about the global economy and how African Americans buying 250 dollar tennis shoes need to be able to connect that to the sweat shops and depressed economies in "third world" countries,that we need to stop being so myopic in our view and connect with others around the world in a quest for justice and all you lot can focus on, is the fact that he said the N word to make a point. What's really going on?
Is there a kudos in using a term that was/is used against us? Should we start calling ourselves monkeys and all the other names and terms they coined for us?...
Is it all clever reverse psycology we should apply to other things as well? It has nothing to do with whether we SHOULD apply it to other things as well, WE didn't decide to apply it to anything else, which should indicate that there was not some blind/blanket/mass endeavor for us to accept all negative terms ascribed to us and start using them. We all didn't sit down at a table and say hmmmmm, let's start referrering to ourselves with racist/degrading terms, and keep that going for several centuries. It was not some contrived desire to humiliate and degrade ourselves. It developed because it served a psychological/cultural purpose, simple as. If and When it no longer serves that purpose, it will fade out, naturally. NOt because people from outside the context that it developed in,( or those inside it who have issue with it), browbeat and harangue others into not using it.
Last edited on Tuesday March 20th, 2007 14:38 by Gmahogany.
Its only, ''browbeating'' when theres some kind of adamance involved and one party refuses to take on the others opinion. I see no reason why any ''intellect'' would want to continue using a word and refuse to see its implications. Self hatred and apathy both play a major part in our oppression and if a few words can be ommitted from our lexicon to help us heal all the better... and when I say major I can't even add a font large enough to imply it enough. Its why we're so quick to shoot one another and deny our heritage with the same call of being ''browbeaten'' into realising ourselves and our past, rather sticking to some given aspect of our culture because its, 'in fasion'.
Would love to go back in time and watch someone call Malcom X a N****r. Would he have 'harangued' them for that?
Need a roll eyes smiliey up in here.
Agree with the rest of your comment though. Would like to hear his comments on economics although I think some of those statistics they publish are twisted to make things seem worse than they really are.
Last edited on Tuesday March 20th, 2007 15:29 by Apedemak
Its only, ''browbeating'' when theres some kind of adamance involved and one party refuses to take on the others opinion. I see no reason why any ''intellect'' would want to continue using a word and refuse to see its implications. Self hatred and apathy both play a major part in our oppression and if a few words can be ommitted from our lexicon to help us heal all the better... and when I say major I can't even add a font large enough to imply it enough. Its why we're so quick to shoot one another and deny our heritage with the same call of being ''browbeaten'' into realising ourselves and our past, rather sticking to some given aspect of our culture because its, 'in fasion'. Hmmmmmm, to the bolded part. It doesn't matter whether YOU see no reason why an "intellect" would continue using a word. The point is, there are both intellects and conscious people who DO. (Of course there are also fools and idiots who do too, same as there are both intellects and idiots who use the word mayonaise). Your only decision is whether you are going to allow that fact to continue to distract you or create bad blood with those, who are otherwise on the same page with you. Eliminating some "words" from our lexicon is not what is going to allow us to heal. Self hatred and apathy are very much part of our oppression, I just disagree with you that everyone who uses the N-word is automatically suffering from both those things. There are PLENTY of Negroes who suffer from self hatred and apathy and would never be caught dead using the N-word. I bet you Clarence Thomas NEVER uses the word, especially around his white wife,lol. THe fact that you and the thread starter continue to point to very accomplished, non self hating,dynamic, active, NON apathetic Black folks like Dyson, Khalid Muhhamed on another thread, using the word(whose stances and works are well known by us), proves that point.
Would love to go back in time and watch someone call Malcom X a N****r. Would he have 'harangued' them for that?I don't have time to reargue this. I gave a whole dissertation in another thread about the many ways the N-word is used among Black folks. No grown Black person is going to refer to another grown Black person with that word without there being some agreed apon context, UNLESS they are trying to insult them,lol. Dyson wasn't calling anyone else a N****r. Usually he is referring to himself as that to make a point or talking about a certain treatment that can go across racial lines, :N****rdom, N****rized, etc. the same way Dr. Cornel occasionally uses the word. Furthermore, Malcolm was not above using the word himself, particularly when frustrated with what was going on at the end of his life in the NOI. Most of the Black leaders at the time used the word in private, which gets to my refusal to accept this nonsense about that word causing anyone to act a certain way. Negroes in AMerica were using that word way before hip hop and the violence and drug culture we are speaking about(where do you think the hip hop generation got it from?). Negroes were using that word privately and within the AA communityin certain CONTEXTS, when we were going around turning the other cheek and letting crackers squirt mustard and ketchup on us, bust us upside our heads, praying and singing, conducting ourselves like above moral reproach saints,hell bent on getting into heaven, so I guess the N word caused THAT behavior,too,lol. Malcolm used it to express his frustration that the NOI was a great organization started by Black men and it was a shame that "N****rs" had to destroy it. He understood the importance of language, and context better than most. He thought nothing of insulting other Black leaders and calling them Toms and coons, handkerchief heads, at one time. Then at some point he decided to scale that back a bit, because he saw it was alienating him from SOME folks who it might be beneficial for him NOT to be alienated from. He had enough sense, when to give something a rest, and how to separate petty sh*t, from important sh*t, and reach a greater common goal, especially once he could tell that the person he was disagreeing with couldnt' be reduced to what he had previously reduced them to and just because they disagreed on something didn't necessarily mean that he was right and they were wrong(or neccesarily a self hating tom, for that matter). That's how you know when a so called leader/activist is serious and not just ego tripping. That's also how u know when you're dealing with someone with above average intelligence/perception ability. A lesson completely lost on many of the folks running around intoning his name...
Need a roll eyes smiliey up in here.
Agree with the rest of your comment though. Would like to hear his comments on economics although I think some of those statistics they publish are twisted to make things seem worse than they really are.
HIs comments and views in general, on economics, racism,sexism and just about everything else(except maybe gay issues ), would be completely in line with what most of the folks in this thread who jumped all over him, would AGREE with, that's what's so funny to me.
Gmahogany. wrote: Furthermore, Malcolm was not above using the word himself, particularly when frustrated with what was going on at the end of his life in the NOI. Most of the Black leaders at the time used the word in private, which gets to my refusal to accept this nonsense about that word causing anyone to act a certain way. Negroes in AMerica were using that word way before hip hop and the violence and drug culture we are speaking about(where do you think the hip hop generation got it from?). Negroes were using that word privately and within the AA communityin certain CONTEXTS, when we were going around turning the other cheek and letting crackers squirt mustard and ketchup on us, bust us upside our heads, praying and singing, conducting ourselves like above moral reproach saints,hell bent on getting into heaven, so I guess the N word caused THAT behavior,too,lol. Malcolm used it to express his frustration that the NOI was a great organization started by Black men and it was a shame that "N****rs" had to destroy it. He understood the importance of language, and context better than most. He thought nothing of insulting other Black leaders and calling them Toms and coons, handkerchief heads, at one time. Then at some point he decided to scale that back a bit, because he saw it was alienating him from SOME folks who it might be beneficial for him NOT to be alienated from. He had enough sense, when to give something a rest, and how to separate petty sh*t, from important sh*t, and reach a greater common goal, especially once he could tell that the person he was disagreeing with couldnt' be reduced to what he had previously reduced them to and just because they disagreed on something didn't necessarily mean that he was right and they were wrong(or neccesarily a self hating tom, for that matter). That's how you know when a so called leader/activist is serious and not just ego tripping. That's also how u know when you're dealing with someone with above average intelligence/perception ability. A lesson completely lost on many of the folks running around intoning his name...
Even if it is true that Malcolm used the word, the key thing to what you said is that he had sense. You espoused on how people used to use it in private, yet fail to see how uncouth it is to broadcast the N-word and other things in front of the world or in open public in general. Every ethnic group says things behind closed doors that they wouldn't say in front of everyone else. The fact that we have come to make it public domain to denegrate ourselves shows how uncooth we have become in using the N-word.
Shemsi en Tehuti wrote: Gmahogany. wrote: Furthermore, Malcolm was not above using the word himself, particularly when frustrated with what was going on at the end of his life in the NOI. Most of the Black leaders at the time used the word in private, which gets to my refusal to accept this nonsense about that word causing anyone to act a certain way. Negroes in AMerica were using that word way before hip hop and the violence and drug culture we are speaking about(where do you think the hip hop generation got it from?). Negroes were using that word privately and within the AA communityin certain CONTEXTS, when we were going around turning the other cheek and letting crackers squirt mustard and ketchup on us, bust us upside our heads, praying and singing, conducting ourselves like above moral reproach saints,hell bent on getting into heaven, so I guess the N word caused THAT behavior,too,lol. Malcolm used it to express his frustration that the NOI was a great organization started by Black men and it was a shame that "N****rs" had to destroy it. He understood the importance of language, and context better than most. He thought nothing of insulting other Black leaders and calling them Toms and coons, handkerchief heads, at one time. Then at some point he decided to scale that back a bit, because he saw it was alienating him from SOME folks who it might be beneficial for him NOT to be alienated from. He had enough sense, when to give something a rest, and how to separate petty sh*t, from important sh*t, and reach a greater common goal, especially once he could tell that the person he was disagreeing with couldnt' be reduced to what he had previously reduced them to and just because they disagreed on something didn't necessarily mean that he was right and they were wrong(or neccesarily a self hating tom, for that matter). That's how you know when a so called leader/activist is serious and not just ego tripping. That's also how u know when you're dealing with someone with above average intelligence/perception ability. A lesson completely lost on many of the folks running around intoning his name...
Even if it is true that Malcolm used the word, the key thing to what you said is that he had sense. You espoused on how people used to use it in private, yet fail to see how uncouth it is to broadcast the N-word and other things in front of the world or in open public in general. Every ethnic group says things behind closed doors that they wouldn't say in front of everyone else. The fact that we have come to make it public domain to denegrate ourselves shows how uncooth we have become in using the N-word.
No disagreement here. I never said I thought it was appropriate to say the word in every situation. I don't suffer from Tourette's syndrome in reference to that word, nor do most of the grown Black folks that I know. They are aware of when and where they are saying it. It's not appropriate to say LOTS of words outside of certain contexts. That doesn't mean the word should be banned, or we should have a hissy fit about it. The fact that you have a lot of younger people saying it willy nilly and brain dead rappers saying incessantly on record, has more to do with lack of home training and the fact that a lot of us have fallen down on the job in reference to imparting info to young folks on how to conduct one self in public, that extends to sexual behavior, profanity, a whole litany of things, not just the N-word. Sign of the times.
This snippet, though in the public domain was from a BLACK state of the Union address, it was Black folks talking to Black folks, about Black folks. That is the CONTEXT it was in. THe fact that some non Black folks may see it, does not concern me. I don't give a sh*t about what non Black folks think about how WE talk when WE get together. They need to attend to their OWN cultural peculiarities. There are plenty of things that other cultures do, PARTICULARLY white folks that I find perplexing/amusing/confusing, but I minds my business. THey would do well to do the same, and stay off the topic of cultural peculiarities and inconsistencies, because I could have a field day, talking about some of the sh*t THEY do.......
