|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
| Moderated by: Saida.M, safetyblitz, Raven, Miss Brighter Days, LadyDay, Kunjufu, Kibibi, Happiness, Dillinger, Breadfruit, Backatya |
|
|
| Author | |
|---|
Jim999
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday June 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 93 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |    |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday July 2nd, 2006 23:55 |
|
For those of you who don't know, the Biblical charactor "Noah" first appears in the ancient Sumerian story "The epic of Gilgamesh". Since the ancient Hebrews first became "settled" (as opposed to nomadic people), in the country of Sumer, it is not surprising that they would incorperate Sumerian belief's into their new religion, once they had established their new Hebrew nation in Canaan.
What is interesting here, is how the stories and belief's of ancient Black people, could be hijacked by white people, and later, not only used against Black people, but also used to justify their enslavement. Truth is surely stranger than fiction!
Here is an excerpt from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Utanapishtim spoke to Gilgamesh, saying:
"I will reveal to you, Gilgamesh, a thing that is hidden,
a secret of the gods I will tell you!
Shuruppak, a city that you surely know,
situated on the banks of the Euphrates,
that city was very old, and there were gods inside it.
The hearts of the Great Gods moved them to inflict the Flood.
Their Father Anu uttered the oath (of secrecy),
Valiant Enlil was their Adviser,
Ninurta was their Chamberlain,
Ennugi was their Minister of Canals.
Ea, the Clever Prince(?), was under oath with them
so he repeated their talk to the reed house:
'Reed house, reed house! Wall, wall!
O man of Shuruppak, son of Ubartutu:
Tear down the house and build a boat!
Abandon wealth and seek living beings!
Spurn possessions and keep alive living beings!
Make all living beings go up into the boat.
Here are some excerpts from the book:
Noah's Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery
The history of slavery in America may not be hidden, but widely unknown is the degree to which Christianity was used to defend not only slavery but also later segregation and discrimination. This secret alliance between religion and bigotry is a largely untold story which more people need to learn about in order to dispel the notion that religion generally or Christianity in particular is necessarily a force for good.
Summary
Title: Noah's Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery
Author: Stephen R. Haynes
Publisher: Oxford University Press
ISBN: 0195142799
Description:
• Analysis of the ways in which the Bible and Christian doctrines have been used to defend slavery
• Explores the relationship between the Bible and Southern conception of honor
• Explains how white Christians found it easy to enslave black Africans
Book Review
Stephen R. Haynes, in his book Noah's Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery, takes apart the Christian defense of slavery in great detail in order to help others better understand the relationship between Christian beliefs and American slavery.
A professor of religious studies at Rhodes College and a Presbyterian minister, Haynes was inspired to explore his issue by the fact that Benjamin M. Palmer, the “father� of Rhodes College, himself used Christianity for extensive defenses of slavery and discrimination. How, he wondered, could an educator and a Christian advocate such evils?
The primary focus of those using Christianity to defend slavery and segregation is asserted right away in Haynes’ title: the story of Noah, and specifically the part where his son Ham is cursed to serve his brothers. This story has long functioned as a model for Christians to insist that God meant for Africans to be marked as the servants of others because they are descended from Ham. Somewhat secondarily they use the story of the Tower of Babel as a model for God’s desire to separate people generally rather than have them united in common cause and purpose.
Slavery of course didn’t exist because of how people read these stories; instead, the stories were read in a way to justify how people wanted to act anyway:
“In western Europe prior to the modern period, the curse was invoked to explain the origins of slavery, the provenance of black skin, and the exile of Hamites to the less wholesome regions of the Earth. But these aspects of malediction were not integrated in an explicit justification for racial slavery until the fifteenth century, when dark-skinned people were enslaved by the Spanish and Portuguese, and the European slave stereotype was stabilized. Thus, only with the growth of the slave trade and the increasing reliance on sub-Saharan Africa as a source for slaves did the curse’s role as a justification for racial slavery eclipse its function as a scriptural explanation of either “blackness� in particular or servitude in general.� Also, Christian interpretations of Ham changed a great deal over time:
“Augustine figured him as “the symbol of the man in isolation, the clanless, lawless, hearthless man who, like heathen ethnics, did not know God.� ...[T]he medieval portrait of Ham recalled earlier affirmations of his craftiness, prodigious sexuality, and affiliation with magic and the Devil.
Noah's Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery...For Luther, Ham’s laughter at his father’s nakedness is a serious offense indicating that Ham “regard[s] himself as more righteous, holier, and more pious than his father.�...Bible readers have blamed Ham and his progeny for everything from the existence of slavery and serfdom, to the perpetuation of sexual license and perversion, to the introduction of magical arts, astrology, idolatry, witchcraft, and heathen religion. They have associated Hamites with tyranny, theft, heresy, blasphemy, rebellion, war, and even deicide. Benjamin Braude’s observation that during the Middle Ages Ham was “an archetypical Other, the example of qualities not to be emulated,� could be fairly applied to the entire history of interpretation.�
Part of the problem for poor Ham is that the biblical text is rather silent on what exactly he did wrong. All it says is that the saw his father naked and told his brothers — hardly a good reason to curse all of his descendants. That, however, is what the Bible says the punishment was so it must be a fair and just punishment. Thus, readers have sought ever since to find a just explanation — and the supposed descendants of Ham have had to pay the price.
Interpretations of the sins of Ham were not the only factors involved in southern Christians‘ defense slavery and segregation on religious grounds. Just as important have been the concepts of honor and social order. Together they constituted important foundations of southern society — honor on the personal level and social order on the larger social level.
Honor meant protecting one’s personal image. It didn’t matter, for example, if one was honest or dishonest, but it did matter that no one said that you were dishonest. Black Africans, as the descendants of Ham, were perceived as lacking any honor and therefore deserving of slavery:
“[W]hite Bible readers understood the transgression as a violation of familial loyalty that marked Ham and his African descendants as utterly devoid of honor and thus fit for slavery.“
Social order was significant in that the differential stations of the races were perceived as being fundamental to the divinely mandated order for society — God separated the races and made one subservient to the other, so any attempts to change that were also attempts to defy God:
“In [Virginian George] Fitzhugh’s view [Fitzhugh being the most respected slavery apologist of the decades prior to the Civil War], abolitionists sought nothing less than the reorganization of American society. They wished “to abolish...or greatly modify, the relations of husband and wife, parent and child, the institution of private property of all kinds, but especially separate ownership of lands, and the institution of Christian churches as now existing in America.� If they are successful, Fitzhugh warned, government, law, religion, and marriage would be among the casualties. Just as abolitionists could not recognize the South apart from its support for human servitude, Fitzhugh perceived Northern social ills as by-products of a free society, whose principles were at war with “all government, all subordination, all order.� If slavery is wrong, he reasoned, then all human government is wrong.�
Well, that’s an awful lot of damage that abolition would cause, isn’t it? Nearly the same complaints were raised by opponents of civil rights. If you read the above carefully, you’ll also find that it bears remarkable similarity to the doom and gloom predictions of those who oppose same-sex marriage — a group which is not coincidentally based in the South. They, too, fear that the legalization of gay marriage will mean the end of social order as we know it.
If all that sounds contrary to basic American principles of liberty and democracy, you’d be right. Southern defenders of slavery, secession, and segregation may have at times used the rhetoric of states’ rights, but they invariably promoted social and political ideals contrary to those expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
Noah's Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery. Southern slave owners had little interest in general liberty or maintaining a democratic republic. Their ideals were founded upon patriarchy, timocracy, and authoritarianism — not liberty, democracy, or other values people tend to take for granted today. In effect, Christianity constituted an important basis for anti-democratic movements in the South designed to deny liberty to large numbers of people, primarily (though not solely) slaves.
Haynes‘ book is a fantastic examination of the various ways in which biblical texts were interpreted and re-interpreted in order to defend the cultural and social values of the South both before and after the Civil War. Christianity didn’t cause slavery, but it unquestionably played an important role in justifying and rationalizing it, thus allowing it to continue longer than it might otherwise have done. Haynes’ interdisciplinary approach incorporates history, anthropology, psychology, and biblical analysis to create a fascinating portrait of a religion and culture, which have not entirely died out, even today.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
DtotheJ
Villager
| Joined: | Friday September 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 1882 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Monday July 3rd, 2006 14:30 |
|
some missionaries go to poor Black countires and teach the locals this garbage.....
they've done it in Haiti...for sure
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
FredB
Villager
| Joined: | Thursday June 10th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1408 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Monday July 3rd, 2006 15:39 |
|
@Man you have gone far for this infor and it is actually very to hand. Moses Mamonides the great Jewish religous scholar and moderniser of Judaism, from its almost facist and overt hatred to any one not Jew to what it is today was probably the greatest proponent of the Hametic myth. While Mamonides and his group of religous scholars toned down the hatred for other people that did not count for us, who gave them almost everything of value they still have in Judaism.
Now me personally don't mind the Hametic myth story. But what really does piss me off and anybody who knows the Genisis story and read it first hand like me as a kid will also know that Egypt, Cannan, Cush were also descended from Ham. Go check your King James version to verify if you think i am kidding. But what really does upset a brother is despite it being in black and white they somehow forget to mention these were the massive and most powerful empires of the day which the bible makes it crystal clear.
So what's new
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
defyfear
Villager
| Joined: | Tuesday September 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 915 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Monday July 3rd, 2006 18:30 |
|
To shorten things let me ask this,
If this is about Christianity in regards to American slavery and Christianity is considered the worship of Jesus Christ, what aspects of Christ his way of life in that Bible was or is displayed in Ham from that Bible?
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
HLF
Villager
| Joined: | Thursday March 3rd, 2005 |
| Location: | Tiki Village |
| Posts: | 702 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 00:19 |
|
Jim999 wrote: For those of you who don't know, the Biblical charactor "Noah" first appears in the ancient Sumerian story "The epic of Gilgamesh". Since the ancient Hebrews first became "settled" (as opposed to nomadic people), in the country of Sumer, it is not surprising that they would incorperate Sumerian belief's into their new religion, once they had established their new Hebrew nation in Canaan.
What is interesting here, is how the stories and belief's of ancient Black people, could be hijacked by white people, and later, not only used against Black people, but also used to justify their enslavement.
Truth is surely stranger than fiction!
...And it makes me wonder why it is sometimes popularly called "Science-Fiction"? First I think people must understand that there are many different stories with this very same pattern. I don' think it is an issue of which came first, it was an "epic" event, many people experienced it, but very few lived. I don't think that was a belief, it was an occurrence, first documented orally before it was written down. That doesn't need to be taken from another culture.
There were only two groups of people that survived. One known and another relatively unknown by most. One group was Noah's family, the others were the fallen angels, who took human wives for themselves (documented in Gen 6:2). They were a part of the reason for the flood in the first place. A very critically important question is who did Gilgamesh descend from? From one of the three sons of Noah (Shem, Japeth, [C]Ham) or from "the fallen ones"?
The biblical justification of slavery, believe it or not, there is one....just not one pertaining to any curse of Noah. As for the curse of Noah upon [C]ham, not only is it wrong, it truthfully has no scientific explanation. All that the Hametic myth did was ease what conscience some white people had in the chastisement and slavery of black people. Now back to what voids the myth. The myth has no scientific truth, because how can a people that have very little melanin produce a people overflowing with melanin? If melanin was a curse, then why do people with lots of it rarely ever burn in the sun? Some curse if it were to have benefits for the accursed. The same principle can be applied to Noah.
Gen 9:20-22 of 20-25[English version] states: 20 Noah began to be a man of the soil, and he planted a vineyard. 21 He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brothers outside."
Read the King James Version and it says something different.
KJV9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
If [C]ham did that to his father, he would have been cursed, but Noah cursed Canaan for the specific reason that he performed the act on Noah, therefore he and his descendents were cursed as servants, subordinates to his/their brethren. Need an example? Sinites were descendant of Canaan. Sinites are people of Chinese descent. All the people of that country, it's technological advancement, etc and it still is heavily influenced by the culture of the US. Not only that, China (only one descendent of Canaan) manufactures many things for the US, from toys to electronics to cars, yet does not have much dominate cultural influence on the world. Canaan's descendents are still serving their brethren.
The true justification of slavery is actually inside Deuteronomy 28.
15 "But if you do not obey the Lord your God by carefully following all His commands and statutes I am giving you today, all these curses will come and overtake you: 16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country. 17 Your basket and kneading bowl will be cursed. 18 Your descendants will be cursed, and your soil's produce, the young of your herds, and the newborn of your flocks. 19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out. 20 The Lord will send against you curses, confusion, and rebuke in everything you do until you are destroyed and quickly perish, because of the wickedness of your actions in abandoning Me.
36 "The Lord will bring you and your king that you have appointed to a nation neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you will worship other gods, of wood and stone.
47 Because you didn't serve the Lord your God with joy and a cheerful heart, even though [you had] an abundance of everything, 48 you will serve your enemies the Lord will send against you, in famine, thirst, nakedness, and a lack of everything. He will place an iron yoke on your neck until He has destroyed you.
These curses has led to the exploitation and chastisement of black people, but black people have been the last to know. This is why black people must stop transferring blame and responsibility to other people. Our hardships have been the results of our continued wrong doing and not following the laws of our true God, Yahweh. So unless each and every black person researches and knows the truth, he or she will never be free. So no more saying the man is holding us down and not helping us up, each and every black person is allowing the man to hold him/her down by not seeking the truth. If more black people knew this stuff, the man couldn't hold them down ever again, but there are some lazy black people that won't change even if for the better, for their own benefit. Those are the people who cannot operate outside of the slave-mind.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
Aryek
Villager
| Joined: | Saturday February 5th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2447 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 00:57 |
|
HLF wrote:
The true justification of slavery is actually inside Deuteronomy 28.
15 "But if you do not obey the Lord your God by carefully following all His commands and statutes I am giving you today, all these curses will come and overtake you: 16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country. 17 Your basket and kneading bowl will be cursed. 18 Your descendants will be cursed, and your soil's produce, the young of your herds, and the newborn of your flocks. 19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out. 20 The Lord will send against you curses, confusion, and rebuke in everything you do until you are destroyed and quickly perish, because of the wickedness of your actions in abandoning Me.
36 "The Lord will bring you and your king that you have appointed to a nation neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you will worship other gods, of wood and stone.
47 Because you didn't serve the Lord your God with joy and a cheerful heart, even though [you had] an abundance of everything, 48 you will serve your enemies the Lord will send against you, in famine, thirst, nakedness, and a lack of everything. He will place an iron yoke on your neck until He has destroyed you.
These curses has led to the exploitation and chastisement of black people, but black people have been the last to know. This is why black people must stop transferring blame and responsibility to other people. Our hardships have been the results of our continued wrong doing and not following the laws of our true God, Yahweh. So unless each and every black person researches and knows the truth, he or she will never be free. So no more saying the man is holding us down and not helping us up, each and every black person is allowing the man to hold him/her down by not seeking the truth. If more black people knew this stuff, the man couldn't hold them down ever again, but there are some lazy black people that won't change even if for the better, for their own benefit. Those are the people who cannot operate outside of the slave-mind.
So what you are saying is that it's our ancestors fault that they were enslaved because they were somehow not serving God? Even if I was to entertain the drieval you've just written, I would have to ask where is your proof that Africans 400 plus years ago were not serving God any more than Europeans? It seems that you're devising a theory after the fact. What you're doing is looking for situations that fit that passage and then turning around and claiming that it is solid proof of African unGodliness. But what about situations that disprove the passage? What about very religious black people who have given this God their total love and devotion but still experience racism and poverty? And what about deeply athiest white people who turn their backs on God but never once experience any sort of hardship because of their race? Why are these people not cursed with famine, thirst and nakedness? Or is this some sort of a "special" treatment that God has reserved for black people?
Last edited on Tuesday July 4th, 2006 02:53 by Aryek
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
Jim999
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday June 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 93 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 01:49 |
|
Last edited on Saturday July 15th, 2006 20:51 by Jim999
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
HLF
Villager
| Joined: | Thursday March 3rd, 2005 |
| Location: | Tiki Village |
| Posts: | 702 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 15:05 |
|
Aryek wrote:
So what you are saying is that it's our ancestors fault that they were enslaved because they were somehow not serving God? Even if I was to entertain the drieval you've just written, I would have to ask where is your proof that Africans 400 plus years ago were not serving God any more than Europeans? It seems that you're devising a theory after the fact. What you're doing is looking for situations that fit that passage and then turning around and claiming that it is solid proof of African unGodliness. But what about situations that disprove the passage? What about very religious black people who have given this God their total love and devotion but still experience racism and poverty? And what about deeply athiest white people who turn their backs on God but never once experience any sort of hardship because of their race? Why are these people not cursed with famine, thirst and nakedness? Or is this some sort of a "special" treatment that God has reserved for black people?
Correction, they were not serving the correct God. If you know anything about causality, you would understand that nothing happens without reason, without purpose. Yahweh-God did not allow this to happen "just to happen". The strife was/is that black people have been serving the same idol god Europeans have, not the real God. I don't need to provide addition proof that black people weren't serving Yahweh other than what is available and accessible to every person of mankind. The proof exists today in the here and now. Look at the global black experience, one of subordination, oppression, scorn, chastisement. Your use of the word religious is just that, 'religio-us'. Many english words are rooted in latin and have latin meanings. religio means supernatural constraint; the supernatural is the spiritual.
One thing you and every black person must understand is that black people and white people's roles are different, their purposes are also different. I am not saying black people suppose to be indentured to them forever, but they will until they know the truth and start applying this divine knowledge to their lives. If you read the entire chapter of Deuteronomy 28, you would have read that there are blessings if Yahweh's people would have kept their faithfulness to him. If they stop their idolatry and religious whoredom to other gods and return to their God, all this chastisement will stop. Surely as I have been lifted up from my chastised state, many others can as well. I would not suggest something that doesn't have real benefits.
Deuteronomy 28:1-14 :
1Now if you faithfully obey the Lord your God and are careful to follow all His commands I am giving you today, the Lord your God will put you far above all the nations of the earth.
2All these blessings will come and overtake you, because you obey the Lord your God:
3You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country. 4Your descendants will be blessed, and your soil's produce, and the offspring of your livestock, including the young of your herds and the newborn of your flocks. 5Your basket and kneading bowl will be blessed.
6You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out. 7The Lord will cause the enemies who rise up against you to be defeated before you. They will march out against you from one direction but flee from you in seven directions. 8The Lord will grant you a blessing on your storehouses and on everything you do; He will bless you in the land the Lord your God is giving you. 9The Lord will establish you as His holy people, as He swore to you, if you obey the commands of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. 10Then all the peoples of the earth will see that you are called by the Lord's name, and they will stand in awe of you.
11The Lord will make you prosper abundantly with children, the offspring of your livestock, and your soil's produce in the land the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12The Lord will open for you His abundant storehouse, the sky, to give your land rain in its season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations, but you will not borrow.
13The Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you will only move upward and never downward if you listen to the Lord your God's commands I am giving you today and are careful to follow [them].
14Do not turn aside to the right or the left from all the things I am commanding you today, and do not go after other gods to worship them.
Compare and contrast between the curses and blessings. Curses if black people are not serving the correct God, blessings if they are. Black people believe that they are serving the correct God, but the proof is in the pudding, if they were serving Yahweh, then they would not be in the situation they have been and are now in. Yahweh never makes empty promises, our people must seek the truth and test if for themselves. The truth shall set you free.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
Jim999
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday June 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 93 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 16:42 |
|
HLF - I think that you missed the point, which is that since BOTH Christianity and the Bible have gone through so many hands and versions, by people who were NOT it's creators. Then perhaps you should exercise caution when giving acceptance and when quoting.
Or didn’t you bother reading the histories of the Bible and Christianity?
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
HLF
Villager
| Joined: | Thursday March 3rd, 2005 |
| Location: | Tiki Village |
| Posts: | 702 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 16:54 |
|
Jim999 wrote: HLF - I think that you missed the point, which is that since BOTH Christianity and the Bible have gone through so many hands and versions, by people who were NOT it's creators. Then perhaps you should exercise caution when giving acceptance and when quoting.
Or didn’t you bother reading the histories of the Bible and Christianity?
I already knew that "the bible" went through many transliterations and translations, if you would have checked my post history you would have come across that. That still does not provide a proper explanation to slavery and the reason why we (black people) are at the current state we are at. I tend to focus/respond on what is more important and relative. I'm not advocating Christianity, but what truth that lies in the bible that has kept Christianity alive (not the lies). You know truth is absolute and eternal. That is the only way the lies of religion could last for so long, but attaching to truth.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
101stAirborne
Villager
| Joined: | Thursday February 17th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1126 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 16:54 |
|
| In actuality it was the Spanish and Portugeuse who first used the "church" to justify slavery, when they first brought blacks as slaves to the New World in the 1500's.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
Jim999
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday June 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 93 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 22:03 |
|
HLF – You, like so many of us, are trying to explain our predicament: That is, why of all the people of the world, are we the ones to feel the blows of dislike, discrimination, fear, etc. etc. You claim that the reason is because we don’t believe in the right God, but the ancient Hebrews did, (well at least some of them did).
Yet those people no longer exist (at least not as an identifiable group), and to add insult to injury, they wound up with a bunch of White people happily going all over the world claiming to be them. So not only did they loose their country and their lives, they also lost their identity. How does that work again HLF?
Let me ask you this HLF, if Africa was a great and powerful continent, filled with great cities with mighty economies and highly educated people, do you really think that anyone would want to look down on Black people? Isn’t it more likely that Africans would be viewed as White Americans are, that is – you may hate their guts, but you have to envy and respect them!
So you see HLF, there is simply no getting around it, the root of our problems is not White people or White Countries, it’s those - #$^%&# - Sub Saharan Africans and their descendents in the rest of the world who JUST WON’T LEARN!
That’s why I wrote my rant against Sub Saharan Africa, I found it very therapeutic. I mean, why blame yourself or your kin, when the proper people to blame are right there and very deserving. All this is a result of what they did and didn’t do: hold them to account for it, if we don’t, how will they know that they need to change? After all, several centuries of misery didn’t seem to have made an impression, perhaps telling them to their faces will.
By the way, did you see the program on Mugabe of Zimbabwe, who I greatly admired (past tense). See, it’s just something about those people, even when they start off right; they still manage to F—k things up. (Sigh).
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
HLF
Villager
| Joined: | Thursday March 3rd, 2005 |
| Location: | Tiki Village |
| Posts: | 702 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Tuesday July 4th, 2006 23:41 |
|
Jim999 wrote: HLF – You, like so many of us, are trying to explain our predicament: That is, why of all the people of the world, are we the ones to feel the blows of dislike, discrimination, fear, etc. etc. You claim that the reason is because we don’t believe in the right God, but the ancient Hebrews did, (well at least some of them did).
Are you saying our predicament does not require an explaination? It surely does. For quite some time I am tired of accepting our situation, it is now time to change it, repair it. The only difference is that some have found the answer and some have not. The ones who have not yet experienced the solution as I have and others that have found out the true solution as well.
Yet those people no longer exist (at least not as an identifiable group), and to add insult to injury, they wound up with a bunch of White people happily going all over the world claiming to be them. So not only did they loose their country and their lives, they also lost their identity. How does that work again HLF?
Wrong. "Those people" called the Hebrews have descendents that still walk this earth, they are Yahweh's people, so he would never allow them to be destroyed entirely. Yes, white people are claiming to be Israel, but they lack the annoiting of Yahweh and they lack the scriptural signs of the blessing and/or curses.
Let me ask you this HLF, if Africa was a great and powerful continent, filled with great cities with mighty economies and highly educated people, do you really think that anyone would want to look down on Black people? Isn’t it more likely that Africans would be viewed as White Americans are, that is – you may hate their guts, but you have to envy and respect them!
I prefer not to think of land masses, but the people who have made them what they are. People make the land what it is, not the other way around. See the truth for yourself the day is coming, it is prophecy of Yahweh. The poles of power are changing, reversing back into its proper alignment. It's going to change the world, Yahweh and his true chosen people are going to change the world, first starting with themselves.
So you see HLF, there is simply no getting around it, the root of our problems is not White people or White Countries, it’s those - #$^%&# - Sub Saharan Africans and their descendents in the rest of the world who JUST WON’T LEARN! Funny, I never said white people are the root of the problem. They aren't even a threat in my eyes. I know their purpose. We are complaining about "all the air conditioning being let out of the house", yet we are too lazy to get up and fix the problem ourselves, close the door. Figurative language. We are the cause of our problems, which I have already explained. But too many are complaining and not searching for the solution. You see I have accepted my responsibility to my own actions. I have understood that my actions determine the cosmic reaction (causality) to my actions. My problem is fixed and has been fixed for quite some time, I'm only sharing the real deal solution. So if any of my brethren want to complain after reading this, yet not trying this solution, go ahead. The problem will never be fixed for them if they don't. The proof is in the pudding.....
That’s why I wrote my rant against Sub Saharan Africa, I found it very therapeutic. I mean, why blame yourself or your kin, when the proper people to blame are right there and very deserving. All this is a result of what they did and didn’t do: hold them to account for it, if we don’t, how will they know that they need to change? After all, several centuries of misery didn’t seem to have made an impression, perhaps telling them to their faces will.
Are you white? Anyway, only the unlearned and undiscerned blame other people for the situation at hand. People will learn one way or another, but the people who seek the truth are on the come up as I live and breathe today. Those people who are suppose to know this I write will know it, if it is meant for them to know. For anyone suffering, get with the program to fix the problem, Yahweh.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
AmeriJamCan
Villager
| Joined: | Tuesday March 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 531 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Wednesday July 5th, 2006 14:08 |
|
There is no Biblical justification for American slavery. The Bible can be twisted to fit any theory. For example, some use the text "Wives submit to your husbands" to justify the domination of women, without reading the text in its proper context.
What is the justification for Muslims holding slaves today in the Sudan and Mauritania (among other countries)? Does this mean that Islam is a racist religion?
You can always twist words to suit your purposes, whether they are good or bad.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
HLF
Villager
| Joined: | Thursday March 3rd, 2005 |
| Location: | Tiki Village |
| Posts: | 702 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Wednesday July 5th, 2006 23:32 |
|
AmeriJamCan wrote: There is no Biblical justification for American slavery. The Bible can be twisted to fit any theory. For example, some use the text "Wives submit to your husbands" to justify the domination of women, without reading the text in its proper context.
What is the justification for Muslims holding slaves today in the Sudan and Mauritania (among other countries)? Does this mean that Islam is a racist religion?
You can always twist words to suit your purposes, whether they are good or bad.
It really depends on what one may mean by justification or justified. "Being right" or "to show to have had a sufficient legal (in this case Divine Law) reason". I am not saying that slavery is right, I am only providing and explanation and solution for what has lingered for hundreds if not thousands of years.
This issue is so much bigger than America and the slavery within that nation. This explanation and solution is a global one. Both physical and mental...even most importantly spiritually. You are not that familiar with me, but if you must know something of importance about me, I have been a problem solver for quite some time, it is what I am good at. So for the topic at hand, put on your "thinking cap" and test if my "theory" or "hypothesis" is wrong. The only way to test is is by applying it to one's life, seek the truth. I love my people, but I can't stand their stubborn ways. They don't comprehend when someone is trying to help them, enlighten them for anything.
As for slavery and it's relation to religion, by principle they work together to achieve a common goal, control...man-dictated control. Religion is only one term that fits under the umbrella and the common goal of the term slavery. If the One God was a part of any of them, none that practice it would be suffering. Truth-seeking, obedience and faith brings about being saved, not suffering.
So I challenge you all, if you are intelligent as you believe yourselves to be, seek the truth, learn of that which will free you.
Please watch these videos (average file size is around 31 MB) and understand what I meant by some of the things I have written. It was a televised segment on the History Channel called, "A History of God". Of course it is white-washed since it was shown on a mainstream television channel, but it is one of those instances where they slip the truth right under one's nose, and the people who are not aware never notice it.
A History of God Part One, Two, Three, Four.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
zaghawa
Villager
| Joined: | Tuesday August 9th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 343 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Thursday July 6th, 2006 10:41 |
|
The Bible and the Koran both “justify� slavery to some extent. Christ however would never have enslaved anyone.
I don’t put much stock in these tribal religions however.
The argument that blacks were enslaved because of Ham’s curse is one of the stupidest things ever.
No we were enslaved because of the greed and the “sins� of others.
If anyone has sinned before God and man it is the slavers.
Last edited on Thursday July 6th, 2006 10:44 by zaghawa
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
HLF
Villager
| | | |
