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Vubundada_Kandaba Villager

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Posted: Thursday May 31st, 2007 23:14 |
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Black immigrants: an invisible model minority
By Clarence Page
Posted to the web May 8, 2007
Clarence Page (SIUC)
WASHINGTON - Do African immigrants make the smartest Americans? The question may sound outlandish, but if you were judging by statistics alone, you could find plenty of evidence to back it up.
In a side-by-side comparison of 2000 census data by sociologist John R. Logan at the Mumford Center, State University of New York at Albany, black immigrants from Africa average the highest educational attainment of any population group in the country, including whites and Asians. For example, 43.8 percent of African immigrants had achieved a college degree, compared to 42.5 of Asian Americans, 28.9 percent for immigrants from Europe, Russia and Canada, and 23.1 percent of the U.S. population as a whole.
That defies the usual stereotypes of Asian Americans as the only "model minority." Yet the traditional American narrative has rendered the high academic achievements of black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean invisible, as if it were a taboo topic.
Instead, we should take a closer look. That was my reaction in 2004 after black Harvard law professor Lani Guinier and Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of Harvard's African-American studies department, stirred a black Harvard alumni reunion with questions about precisely where the university's new black students were coming from.
About 8 percent, or 530, of Harvard's undergraduates were black, they said, but somewhere between one-half and two-thirds of black undergraduates were "West Indian and African immigrants or their children, or to a lesser extent, children of biracial couples."
If we take a closer look, I said at the time, I bet we'll find that Harvard's not alone. With all of the ink and airwaves that have been devoted to immigration these days, black immigrants remain remarkably invisible. Yet their success has long followed the patterns of other high-achieving immigrants.
As one immigrant Jamaican friend once told me, "I'm too busy working two jobs to worry about the white man's racism."
Now comes a new study that finds a consistent pattern of Ivy League and other elite colleges and universities boosting their black student populations by enrolling large numbers of immigrants from Africa, the West Indies and Latin America.
Immigrants, who make up 13 percent of the nation's college-age black population, account for more than a quarter of black students at Ivy League and other elite universities, according to the study of 28 selective colleges and universities. The authors of the study, published recently in the American Journal of Education, included Douglas S. Massey of Princeton University and Camille Z. Charles of the University of Pennsylvania.
The proportion of immigrants was higher at private institutions, 28.8 percent, than at the public ones, where they comprised 23.1 percent of enrollment.
Are elite schools padding their racial diversity numbers with black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families? This development immediately calls into question whether affirmative action admission policies are fulfilling their original intent.
But as Walter Benn Michaels, a professor of English at the University of Illinois at Chicago, writes in his book "The Trouble With Diversity: How We Learned to Love Identity and Ignore Inequality," the original intent of affirmative action morphed back in the 1970s from reparations for slavery into the promotion of a broader virtue: "diversity." Since then, it no longer seems to matter how many of your college's black students had slavery in their families. It only matters that they are black.
That said, I don't begrudge black immigrants or any other high-achieving immigrants for their impressive achievements. I applaud them. I encourage more native-born American children, particularly my own child, to take similar advantage of this country's hard-won opportunities.
But I also think we need to revisit the meaning of "diversity." Unlike our current system of feel-good game-playing, we need to focus on the deeper question of how education can be improved and opportunities opened up to those who were left behind by the civil rights revolution.
We tend to look too often at every aspect of diversity except economic class. Yet, the dream of upward mobility is an essential part of how we Americans like to think of ourselves.
It's also why a lot more people are trying to get into this country than trying to get out.
---
Page is a Pulitzer Prize-winning syndicated columnist specializing in urban issues. He is based in Washington, D.C. E-mail: cptime@aol.com (C) 2007 Tribune Media Services, Inc.
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impactplayer Villager

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Posted: Friday June 1st, 2007 00:16 |
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The African immigrant wave started as recently as the 90's. They makeup like .02% of the population. Waaaay too small of sample/group to make a general conclusion them being a model minority. In addition immigrants in general regardless of race tend to excell at a higher level than natives as it is in every country. A better measure is too see how many black americans apply and get rejected in comparison to how many black immigrants apply and get rejected because a lot of black americans dont apply to Ivies.
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girlfromthenc Villager

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Posted: Friday June 1st, 2007 07:39 |
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Well hopefully this data is true, and these African graduates are using their degrees/ new found wealth to better their kinsman and country of orgin..............................
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mike pain Villager

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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 10:18 |
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"........Are elite schools padding their racial diversity numbers with black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families?"
................????????!!!!!!!!
or perhaps the universities simply didn't ask the blacks this question at admission
Does your family have a history of American slavery ?....
the same, seemingly, latent unease about Africans ( not having " a history of American slavery in their families " ) seems to be there within some AA blacks-who-have-a-history-of-slavery-wihtin-their-families...or have i misinterpreted this statement ? oh but I forgot to mention that said, she doesn't begrudge blacks (who do not have a history of American slavery in their families).
So would Page prefer some type of unofficial, semi-enforced, hierarchy admission policy for the American black community? not that she "begrudges" ahem "black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families"
it would be interesting to hear her opinion on Collin Powell and dare I say it ....Barrack Obama ?! ....not that she
"begrudges"
"black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families".
Last edited on Saturday June 2nd, 2007 10:22 by mike pain
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girlfromthenc Villager

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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 11:01 |
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mike pain wrote:
"........Are elite schools padding their racial diversity numbers with black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families?"
................????????!!!!!!!!
or perhaps the universities simply didn't ask the blacks this question at admission
Does your family have a history of American slavery ?....
the same, seemingly, latent unease about Africans ( not having " a history of American slavery in their families " ) seems to be there within some blacks-who-have-a-history-of-slavery-wihtin their-families...or have i misinterpreted this statement ? oh but I forgot to mention that said, she doesn't begrudge blacks (who do not have a history of American slavery in their families).
So would Page prefer some type of unofficial, semi-enforced, hierarchy admission policy for the American black community? not that she "begrudges" ahem "black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families"
it would be interesting to hear her opinion on Collin Powell and dare I say it ....Barrack Obama ?! ....not that she
"begrudges"
"black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families".
No, there won't be any "do you have slaves in the family" questions on college applications. (rolling eyes). The only RACE related question they will probably ask you would be if you were "White or Caucasian" , "Black or African-American", Asian-American, etc
I honestly see nothing wrong, if Black immigrants want to come to this country and make something of themselves (univerisity eduacation included). However, I do think its FRAUDULENT for them to attempt to apply and accept scholarship and other awards specifically set aside Afro-American people. I personally don't buy this theory someone else was trying to throw at me on another thread about them "Black people all having the same experience" crap. African and Carribean people come from almost COMPLETELY MONORACIAL black societies. They do not see race nor have they faced the same kind of social racism AA people have faced throughout their history (nor should they be "rewarded" for simply sharing the same race as AA people). African and Carribean immigrants who migrate are also more middle class families than the poor disadvanted ones, so that also should throw the "helping the disadvantaged" theory out of the window.
And by the way, I have said a million times both Colin Powell and Obama are not "African-Americans". Colin Powell is Jamician-American and Obama is Kenyan-American. What the hell is wrong with that? People act like AA people are the only Black people outside of Africa! I'm 100% convinced that most Black people only do this because they are ashamed about where their parents come from. You can see evidence of this when you hear Rastafarians claiming to be from Ethiopia (instead of West Africa), and people not even 3 generations removed in England claiming to be "Black british", and even the children of African immigrants that come to America not even 1 generation removed from their parents country already claiming that they don't "fit in in Africa"(yet they fit in at home with their parents)......
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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 11:35 |
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i do think its FRAUDULENT for them to attempt to apply and accept scholarship and other awards specifically set aside Afro-American people... I thought the award was set aside for 'blacks' who are disadvantaged in a racist, white society, where skin colour more often than not defines your future outcome, I didn't realise that those blacks not having AA slave ancestry receive on average less racism. . I personally don't buy this theory someone else was trying to throw at me on another thread about them "Black people all having the same experience" crap. African and Carribean people come from almost COMPLETELY MONORACIAL black societies. They do not see race nor have they faced the same kind of social racism AA people have faced throughout their history (nor should they be "rewarded" for simply sharing the same race as AA people). African and Carribean immigrants who migrate are also more middle class families than the poor disadvanted ones.
The whole point of scholarships are to provide disadvantaged and promising young adults opportunities hitherto Inaccessible .regardless of what past ancestries may have been, at present all blacks are being discriminated against because of their colour. A racist doesn't care about ancestry; he only cares about what you are now. Again all blacks within Americas boundaries share a collective experience of being discriminated against, now, do think a white supremist runs towards a black man stops a foot away holding his fist up and yells "terribly sorry to disturb you, but are you descended from slaves?
And by the way, I have said a million times both Colin Powell and Obama are not "African-Americans". Colin Powell is Jamician-American and Obama is Kenyan-American. What the hell is wrong with that? People act like AA people are the only Black people outside of Africa! I'm 100% convinced that most Black people only do this because they are ashamed about where their parents come from. You can see evidence of this when you hear Rastafarians claiming to be from Ethiopia (instead of West Africa), and people not even 3 generations removed in England claiming to be "Black british", and even the children of African immigrants that come to America not even 1 generation removed from their parents country already claiming that they don't "fit in in Africa"(yet they fit in at home with their parents)......
I don't quite understand the point, if indeed you are making a general point or a general comment, but, collin powel has said that if his parents went right instead of left ( meaning going to america instaed of england) he might not have become a general.
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mike pain Villager

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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 11:39 |
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impactplayer wrote: The African immigrant wave started as recently as the 90's. They makeup like .02%
It would be interesting to know the source from the statistic and when it was taken, the world wide movement of immigrants from continent to continent has increased dramatically recently.
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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 19:48 |
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Mike pain,
Most Americans, Black and White think Mexican people are the scum on the earth that do nothing but clean up for White folks. So because of this they get discriminated against as well! Do you think if you came to America you should get to apply for a MEXICAN-AMERICAN scholarship because you might get discriminated against and so do Mexcians?????
I think not! So youcan't use that lame excuse with me!
I don't know why self hating black people are always claiming they feel such a connection with every damn body who has an ounce of color to them. I wonder would you running around claim to be "Indian" or "Mexican" or something else if you ever came to America and saw one of THEM with your same skin color. You should know what you are already.........
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impactplayer Villager

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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 21:17 |
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mike pain wrote: impactplayer wrote: The African immigrant wave started as recently as the 90's. They makeup like .02%
It would be interesting to know the source from the statistic and when it was taken, the world wide movement of immigrants from continent to continent has increased dramatically recently.
You mean you cant take 3 seconds on a search engine to find this info yourself?
http://mumford1.dyndns.org/cen2000/BlackWhite/BlackDiversityReport/black-diversity03.htm
Just to let you know how miniscule the African population is. In my state our small metros are bigger than the entire US population of African immigrants. Dont get me wrong, they are bright but still very small and hardly noticed in society.
Last edited on Saturday June 2nd, 2007 21:23 by impactplayer
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Gmahogany. Villager
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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 21:40 |
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I'm not suprised at all by this information. Have always known it to be true, because I grew up around many African immigrant families as well as Asian ones, in the DC area. Immigrants in general tend to outperform the general population of the host country. What should cause people's antenna to go up, is why the white media/governement spends so much time IGNORING the fact that African immigrants tend to outperform or perform on par with Asian immigrants and investing in/perpetrating the Asian model minority myth. I'll tell you why? Because it doesn't fit in with their African/Black folks inferiority mythology/lie/. They know that if it is proven that Black folks from outside of America(who don't have the psychological damage of living under THIS f**ked up system for 4 centuries) can perform as well or better than the so called model minority Asians, then that means Africans/African descended people are not inherently inferior(which has been the operating premise of white supremacy all along). The only thing that makes African Americans different from African immigrants is....our....experience....under THIS....racist/oppressive/discriminatory sytsem. Which would mean that MUCH of our: underperforming/pathologies/failures/generational poverty would have to laid at the door step of a SYSTEM that was set up and imposed to produce those very outcomes. White folks and SOME Negroes, would like to ignore that little fact, so they created and maintained the Asian model minority MYTH. The only Asian American who has CONSISTENTLY debunked that myth for YEARS, is Frank Wu, who currently teaches at Wayne STate in MIchigan, but was professor/dean at historically Black, Howard University for many years.
Secondly, comparing people who: packed their sh*t/risked life and limb/left everyone and everything they've ever known(by definition a small/concentrated/motivated/resolute/a-typical,group,even for their OWN country) to come to a new country and make a better life, to the native born GENERAL population of a country, is not only bad science(any middle school science student could peep that), it's also asinine and disingenous.
People who get up and move half way across the world, don't tend to do so with the intention of sitting around with their thumb up their ass. I'm sure that if we visited any of the countries that produce, admittedly:smart/motivated/achieving immigrants, we would find the requisite number of:idiots/ne'rdowells/f**k ups/lazy/shiftless people among the GENERAL population of said country. I'd also be willing to bet that most Americans that go abroad to live would tend to be of a generally higher economic/educational/motivational/achievement level than the AVERAGE member of the native population in the country they have moved to. Can't prove it, just a strong hunch....
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Gmahogany. Villager
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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 22:35 |
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mike pain wrote:
"........Are elite schools padding their racial diversity numbers with black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families?"
................????????!!!!!!!!
or perhaps the universities simply didn't ask the blacks this question at admission
Does your family have a history of American slavery ?....
the same, seemingly, latent unease about Africans ( not having " a history of American slavery in their families " ) seems to be there within some AA blacks-who-have-a-history-of-slavery-wihtin-their-families...or have i misinterpreted this statement ? oh but I forgot to mention that said, she doesn't begrudge blacks (who do not have a history of American slavery in their families).
So would Page prefer some type of unofficial, semi-enforced, hierarchy admission policy for the American black community? not that she "begrudges" ahem "black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families"
it would be interesting to hear her opinion on Collin Powell and dare I say it ....Barrack Obama ?! ....not that she
"begrudges"
"black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families".
You, and most other people, Black and white, totally miss the point of what affirmative action was supposed to do/be. Actually, in most white people's case, the missing of the point is intentional, in my opinion.
"the original intent of affirmative action morphed back in the 1970s from reparations for slavery into the promotion of a broader virtue: "diversity."
Affirmative action was supposed to be part of a larger set of REMEDIES/RECTIFYING/RESTORING/MAKING WHOLE, of/forpeople who had been SYSTEMATICALLY discriminated against and DAMAGED and DEPRIVED of basic social/citizenship rights/educational access, who had been UNDERDEVLOPED by inferior education if ANY education/ access to economic/job opportunities for CENTURIES,ie AFrican Americans....with a slavery....Jim crow.......history......experience. That was the reason for the national conversation/debate in the first damn place,Duhhh.... The conversation was not prompted about how Eskimos get treated, Eskimos didn't take to the streets or riot, or sit in or anything else. The discussion was not prompted by how any other people get treated. Though other groups BENEFITTED it was the AFrican American struggle/movements, thoughout the history of this country that have ALWAYS the catalyst for change in this country.
White folks with their perpetual predispostion towards even making what looks like a defeat or a loss, become a victory for them, and some Uncle Tom, perpetually gullible/sell out Negroes twisted all of the above around and turned it into a DIVERSITY(this is one of MANY things I blame MLK for helping to usher in) focus. What that means is that people who never suffered from ANY of the major racism and oppression and it's GENERATIONAL EFFECTS in THIS country, could benefit from sh*t that wasn't even meant for them. Not only does that mean Black immigrants or non Black immigrants would get to come here and partake of the BENEFITS that AA's got their heads busted in and lives taken for,(not only benefit from that struggle, but in some instances talk sh*t to us/about us, WHILE partaking of those things,lol), but it ALSO meant that WHITE PEOPLE also got to benefit from the "diversity" focused affirmative action. Eventhough they not only never suffered from the original racism/discrimination or experienced it's fall out/repercussions in a genarational way, they were already the beneficiaries of the system that WE were supposed to be being restored/repaired from.
When in college, I split my time between a historically Black university and a larger predominantly white, state university. Do you know that one of the effects of affirmative action as twisted and implemented by Crackers and Tom Negroes, is tha at historially Black universities, white students AUTOMATICALLy qualify for "minority" scholarships? Mind u, Black colleges never discriminated against white people coming there. White folks didn't WANT to go to our colleges AND they didn't want us coming to THEIR colleges. In spite of that, eventhough white students have NEVER suffered any systematic discrimination or any of the other sh*t that AFrican AMericans suffered as a GROUP for centuries, since in the particular environment of a Black university, white students are the "minority", they can basically go to school for free. Plenty of them were/are partaking of it, saw it with my own eyes.
The BIGGEST beneficiaries of Affirmative Action have not been the people that MOST needed the sh*t and who took all of the risks and the brunt of the mistreatment/suffered the most repercussions/fallout from the oppresive system,for centuries. It's been white women mainly,white men, and to a lesser extent immigrants, Black and otherwise, were lucky enough to get here AFTER all of the dirty work/risk taking/head busting had been done, and AA's had forced this country to HALF WAY live up to the sh*t they like to go around the world flapping their gums about.
Now understand, I don' t begrudge any Black people from ANYWHERE coming here and partaking of whatever is here to partake of. My only problem is when THEY don't recognize and respect, the cost that was paid for them to come and partake of all that OPPORTUNITY, or when they get it twisted and think they are some special kind of NEW N****rs that were just so much smarter/hardworking/motivated than the rest of us who have been here for centuries. BTW, there are some NATIVE born N****rs who suffer from those kinds of delusions as well. They get appointed to Secretary of State or some other achievement, let's say, and get it in their heads that this particular succes or milestone was achieved because before THEIR Black ass came along, there were no:qualified/intelligent/motivated Black folks, not because of a combination of their competence/intelligence(maybe), AND fortuitious timing and luck. Cause I assure you, as smart and as competent and as hardworking,industrious/motivated as they THINK they are, if they had had the misfortune to be born or 50 years earlier,(or have come to this country from somewhere else 30/ 50/100- years earlier like part of Malcolm X's family and part of Farrakhans family did), their Black ass would have been scrubbing some Cracker's floor or driving some old white lady around like Morgan Freeman in Driving Miss Daisy. Recognize. Carry on....
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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 22:37 |
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mike pain wrote:
"........Are elite schools padding their racial diversity numbers with black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families?"
................????????!!!!!!!!
or perhaps the universities simply didn't ask the blacks this question at admission
Does your family have a history of American slavery ?....
the same, seemingly, latent unease about Africans ( not having " a history of American slavery in their families " ) seems to be there within some AA blacks-who-have-a-history-of-slavery-wihtin-their-families...or have i misinterpreted this statement ? oh but I forgot to mention that said, she doesn't begrudge blacks (who do not have a history of American slavery in their families).
So would Page prefer some type of unofficial, semi-enforced, hierarchy admission policy for the American black community? not that she "begrudges" ahem "black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families"
it would be interesting to hear her opinion on Collin Powell and dare I say it ....Barrack Obama ?! ....not that she
"begrudges"
"black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families".
You, and most other people, Black and white, totally miss the point of what affirmative action was supposed to do/be. Actually, in most white people's case, the missing of the point is intentional, in my opinion.
"the original intent of affirmative action morphed back in the 1970s from reparations for slavery into the promotion of a broader virtue: "diversity."
Affirmative action was supposed to be part of a larger set of REMEDIES/RECTIFYING/RESTORING/MAKING WHOLE, of/forpeople who had been SYSTEMATICALLY discriminated against and DAMAGED and DEPRIVED of basic social/citizenship rights/educational access, who had been UNDERDEVLOPED by inferior education if ANY education/ access to economic/job opportunities for CENTURIES,ie AFrican Americans....with a slavery....Jim crow.......history......experience. That was the reason for the national conversation/debate in the first damn place,Duhhh.... The conversation was not prompted about how Eskimos get treated, Eskimos didn't take to the streets or riot, or sit in or anything else. The discussion was not prompted by how any other people get treated. Though other groups BENEFITTED it was the AFrican American struggle/movements, thoughout the history of this country that have ALWAYS the catalyst for change in this country.
White folks with their perpetual predispostion towards even making what looks like a defeat or a loss, become a victory for them, and some Uncle Tom, perpetually gullible/sell out Negroes twisted all of the above around and turned it into a DIVERSITY(this is one of MANY things I blame MLK for helping to usher in) focus. What that means is that people who never suffered from ANY of the major racism and oppression and it's GENERATIONAL EFFECTS in THIS country, could benefit from sh*t that wasn't even meant for them. Not only does that mean Black immigrants or non Black immigrants would get to come here and partake of the BENEFITS that AA's got their heads busted in and lives taken for,(not only benefit from that struggle, but in some instances talk sh*t to us/about us, WHILE partaking of those things,lol), but it ALSO meant that WHITE PEOPLE also got to benefit from the "diversity" focused affirmative action. Eventhough they not only never suffered from the original racism/discrimination or experienced it's fall out/repercussions in a genarational way, they were already the beneficiaries of the system that WE were supposed to be being restored/repaired from.
When in college, I split my time between a historically Black university and a larger predominantly white, state university. Do you know that one of the effects of affirmative action as twisted and implemented by Crackers and Tom Negroes, is tha at historially Black universities, white students AUTOMATICALLy qualify for "minority" scholarships? Mind u, Black colleges never discriminated against white people coming there. White folks didn't WANT to go to our colleges AND they didn't want us coming to THEIR colleges. In spite of that, eventhough white students have NEVER suffered any systematic discrimination or any of the other sh*t that AFrican AMericans suffered as a GROUP for centuries, since in the particular environment of a Black university, white students are the "minority", they can basically go to school for free. Plenty of them were/are partaking of it, saw it with my own eyes.
The BIGGEST beneficiaries of Affirmative Action have not been the people that MOST needed the sh*t and who took all of the risks and the brunt of the mistreatment/suffered the most repercussions/fallout from the oppresive system,for centuries. It's been white women mainly,white men, and to a lesser extent immigrants, Black and otherwise, were lucky enough to get here AFTER all of the dirty work/risk taking/head busting had been done, and AA's had forced this country to HALF WAY live up to the sh*t they like to go around the world flapping their gums about.
Now understand, I don' t begrudge any Black people from ANYWHERE coming here and partaking of whatever is here to partake of. My only problem is when THEY don't recognize and respect, the cost that was paid for them to come and partake of all that OPPORTUNITY, or when they get it twisted and think they are some special kind of NEW N****rs that were just so much smarter/hardworking/motivated than the rest of us who have been here for centuries. BTW, there are some NATIVE born N****rs who suffer from those kinds of delusions as well. They get appointed to Secretary of State or some other achievement, let's say, and get it in their heads that this particular succes or milestone was achieved because before THEIR Black ass came along, there were no:qualified/intelligent/motivated Black folks, not because of a combination of their competence/intelligence(maybe), AND fortuitious timing and luck. Cause I assure you, as smart and as competent and as hardworking,industrious/motivated as they THINK they are, if they had had the misfortune to be born or 50 years earlier,(or have come to this country from somewhere else 30/ 50/100- years earlier like part of Malcolm X's family and part of Farrakhans family did), their Black ass would have been scrubbing some Cracker's floor or driving some old white lady around like Morgan Freeman in Driving Miss Daisy. Recognize. Carry on....
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Posted: Saturday June 2nd, 2007 23:34 |
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Gmahogany. wrote: I'm not suprised at all by this information. Have always known it to be true, because I grew up around many African immigrant families as well as Asian ones, in the DC area. Immigrants in general tend to outperform the general population of the host country. What should cause people's antenna to go up, is why the white media/governement spends so much time IGNORING the fact that African immigrants tend to outperform or perform on par with Asian immigrants and investing in/perpetrating the Asian model minority myth. I'll tell you why? Because it doesn't fit in with their African/Black folks inferiority mythology/lie/. They know that if it is proven that Black folks from outside of America(who don't have the psychological damage of living under THIS f**ked up system for 4 centuries) can perform as well or better than the so called model minority Asians, then that means Africans/African descended people are not inherently inferior(which has been the operating premise of white supremacy all along). The only thing that makes African Americans different from African immigrants is....our....experience....under THIS....racist/oppressive/discriminatory sytsem. Which would mean that MUCH of our: underperforming/pathologies/failures/generational poverty would have to laid at the door step of a SYSTEM that was set up and imposed to produce those very outcomes. White folks and SOME Negroes, would like to ignore that little fact, so they created and maintained the Asian model minority MYTH. The only Asian American who has CONSISTENTLY debunked that myth for YEARS, is Frank Wu, who currently teaches at Wayne STate in MIchigan, but was professor/dean at historically Black, Howard University for many years.
Secondly, comparing people who: packed their sh*t/risked life and limb/left everyone and everything they've ever known(by definition a small/concentrated/motivated/resolute/a-typical,group,even for their OWN country) to come to a new country and make a better life, to the native born GENERAL population of a country, is not only bad science(any middle school science student could peep that), it's also asinine and disingenous.
People who get up and move half way across the world, don't tend to do so with the intention of sitting around with their thumb up their ass. I'm sure that if we visited any of the countries that produce, admittedly:smart/motivated/achieving immigrants, we would find the requisite number of:idiots/ne'rdowells/f**k ups/lazy/shiftless people among the GENERAL population of said country. I'd also be willing to bet that most Americans that go abroad to live would tend to be of a generally higher economic/educational/motivational/achievement level than the AVERAGE member of the native population in the country they have moved to. Can't prove it, just a strong hunch....
African immgrants is too broad a term.I see Ethiopiuans doing well in DCD,and folks from Sudan and Senegal struggling like heck.Won't comment on Nigeriasns.
BTW Frank Wu resigned from Wayne State.
http://www.law.wayne.edu/school_news.html#news_041107_1
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Gmahogany. Villager
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Posted: Sunday June 3rd, 2007 00:01 |
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Burning Spear wrote:
African immgrants is too broad a term.I see Ethiopiuans doing well in DCD,and folks from Sudan and Senegal struggling like heck.Won't comment on Nigeriasns.
No doubt. Asian American is also a broad term, and I"ve known first generation Asians who were not at all studious or overachieving, or particularly smart, for that matter, but the general trend of better study habits and more emphasis on education and achievement for immigrant families, in comparison to the native born population holds true. Hell, that phenomenon holds true for people who move around WITHIN the country. My father used to tell me how Blacks who were born in the Southern city he grow up in, were always unfavorably compared to the Blacks who came out of the smaller, rural , country areas, to that bigger city for better opportunities. The country "immigrants" had a rep for working harder, being more goal oriented, attaining stuff that some of the native born, city dwellers would stand around insisting they could NOT attain. That gets to the point I made about people who get up and move somewhere that they don't know, tending to be "goal oriented" off the top. Even if they are just moving from some small hick town in Alabama, to Birmingham,or Mobile,Alabama. The same dynamic is at work when comparing folks who come from other countries to AMerica.
BTW Frank Wu resigned from Wayne State.
http://www.law.wayne.edu/school_news.html#news_041107_1
Thanks for the update, on Wu.
P.S. You better not comment on the Nigerians. They roll thick up in here,lol.
Last edited on Sunday June 3rd, 2007 00:04 by Gmahogany.
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101stAirborne Villager
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Posted: Sunday June 3rd, 2007 01:19 |
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girlfromthenc wrote:
And by the way, I have said a million times both Colin Powell and Obama are not "African-Americans". Colin Powell is Jamician-American and Obama is Kenyan-American.
This statement is completely false. If you have said it a million times you have been arong as many. Colin Powel was bron in the City of New York and Obama in Hawaii which as been in the US for over a 100 years as a territory and state. Under the US Constitution any person born in a US state is a citizen of that state and the United States. It also stipulates that a Presidential/V Presidential candiate ( which both mne are or have been) must be a born, not naturalised citizen. Further , last time I checked Kenya is in Africa, and Jamaica is in the Americas, with all the Black inhabitants being descended from Africa.
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Posted: Sunday June 3rd, 2007 02:59 |
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This statement is completely false. If you have said it a million times you have been arong as many. Colin Powel was bron in the City of New York and Obama in Hawaii which as been in the US for over a 100 years as a territory and state. Under the US Constitution any person born in a US state is a citizen of that state and the United States. It also stipulates that a Presidential/V Presidential candiate ( which both mne are or have been) must be a born, not naturalised citizen. Further , last time I checked Kenya is in Africa, and Jamaica is in the Americas, with all the Black inhabitants being descended from Africa.
Yeah, you have Ireland trying to claim him as Irish-American now because his mother was Irish. Calling Obama Kenyan or Irish American despite the fact he wasnt born, raised nor held any of the customs is equivilent to me taking a genology test, finding out I have roots in Nigeria and all of sudden start calling myself Nigerian-American. That would be stupid nor it would be fair to actual Nigerians. The men are first and foremost American and like the rest of us they are mixed with various different ethnicities..Thats essentially the American experience.
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skeepoola Villager
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Posted: Sunday June 3rd, 2007 03:37 |
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| Girlfromtheemc...NO! you obviously see A-WHOLE- LOT wrong with us coming to America and kicking ass. Don't hate the players...hate the game! I've come accross folks like you that spend time spewing vernom of jealousy and envy, blaming the "whiteman" for everything from your tooth ache to your boyfriends and rappers calling you Ho's and b**ches. You make so many ridiculous statements...they're not worth addressing because I doubt you can even see clear through your bliss of ignorance. I guess the rest of America that loves Barack and Colin just are not getting it! huh? Its ironic you call yourself AFRICAN American, but somehow manage to justify to your self that Barack is not as "AFRICAN" as you! Get a grip!!! We've only started and our children and their children for generations to come will continue to make us proud. Last edited on Wednesday June 6th, 2007 04:15 by skeepoola
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Posted: Sunday June 3rd, 2007 04:04 |
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Burning Spear wrote:
African immgrants is too broad a term.I see Ethiopiuans doing well in DCD,and folks from Sudan and Senegal struggling like heck. Won't comment on Nigeriasns.
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You never cease to amaze me Burning Spear. Somehow you are now talking about Africans struggling and wanting to focus on the negative. Sounds like you are bitter about something old man Burning Spear. 
This story proves that Black People (Africans, African-Americans, Caribbean Africans, British Africans) are very smart, probably smarter than all people of all races. It shows that Black people in America are capable of outperforming everybody else in this Country. We all know that there are certain factors that contribute to holding Black People (African Americans) in America back such as History, Socio-Economics and Socio-cultural factors that were imposed on them by the system.
People from Sudan struggling in America. Sudanese started coming to this Country in the last six (6) years or so. They are not even settled in yet. Matter of fact, I would say Sudanese are in better position than all immigrants coming here to America because most come as Refugees and are given US Government Assistance for a couple of months which include housing, food, clothing, free healthcare for this period, etc etc.
The US Government through Private Non Governmental Organizations help them find jobs and they are given their Green Cards before they even enter America and this allows them to apply for college loans to go to college. Give them a few more years before they graduate from colleges and Universities. The US government is even considering paying off their college loans on the condition that those who graduate from college go and work in Sudan for a period of five (5) years. While in the Sudan, part of these American college Graduates salaries will be paid for by the American Government.
The majority of Sudanese are in the Western and Mid Western states and you find few in major cities like Washington DC and New York.
Matter of fact Sudanese in Greensboro North Carolina are beginning to make their impact felt. They own Car Dealerships, Pizza shops, Dominoes Pizza stores, Restaurants, Travelling Agencies, Taxi Companies, Clothing Stores, Car Repair Shops, computer stores, electronic stores and the list goes on. There is a saying in Greensboro that if you call a Taxi cab, most probably the company and driver is Sudanese. The same is found in Sudanese communities in places like Nebraska, North Dakota, Utah, Oregon, Maine, etc etc.
In places like Nebraska, North Dakota and Utah etc etc, Sudanese are the majority of all black people there. As a result, you will find High way Police Troopers, Fire-Fighters, Ambulanance Workers Police Officers, and the whole nine sudanese. Hell the State of Nebraska gave them their own Courts with their own judges and lawyers to deal with family and community related issues. So where is the struggling in America Old Man Burning Spear.
Please focus on the positive for once and stop the Negativity because it makes you look like.....bad. Oh well I forgot who I am talking to, carry on being your self. I wonder where all this is coming from.  Last edited on Sunday June 3rd, 2007 05:51 by Vubundada_Kandaba
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skeepoola Villager
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Posted: Sunday June 3rd, 2007 04:04 |
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Gmahogany. wrote: mike pain wrote:
"........ Now understand, I don' t begrudge any Black people from ANYWHERE coming here and partaking of whatever is here to partake of. My only problem is when THEY don't recognize and respect, the cost that was paid for them to come and partake of all that OPPORTUNITY, or when they get it twisted and think they are some special kind of NEW N****rs that were just so much smarter/hardworking/motivated than the rest of us who have been here for centuries. BTW, there are some NATIVE born N****rs who suffer from those kinds of delusions as well. They get appointed to Secretary of State or some other achievement, let's say, and get it in their heads that this particular succes or milestone was achieved because before THEIR Black ass came along, there were no:qualified/intelligent/motivated Black folks, not because of a combination of their competence/intelligence(maybe), AND fortuitious timing and luck. Cause I assure you, as smart and as competent and as hardworking,industrious/motivated as they THINK they are, if they had had the misfortune to be born or 50 years earlier,(or have come to this country from somewhere else 30/ 50/100- years earlier like part of Malcolm X's family and part of Farrakhans family did), their Black ass would have been scrubbing some Cracker's floor or driving some old white lady around like Morgan Freeman in Driving Miss Daisy. Recognize. Carry on...." I think the majority of Africans and Island immigrants recognize and deeply appreciate the sacrifices made by black Americans in the struggle for racial equality throughout Americas history. To suggest otherwise is just plain wrong. And i belive that's one of the primary reasons why African immigrants here by a very large majority typically join black Americans in siding with the Democratic party, eventhough by thesame large majority their conservative values are more in line with the republican party's. By-the-way..question for you...Do you think if more black Americans where pursuing college degrees rather Jail, NFL, NBA, Hip Hop careers, this would have put them in a better position to benefit from affirmative action? btw...the success of African immigrants in America is not ONLY due to affirmative action...infact it is not the primary reason. The primary reason is their dedication, hard work, and persistence in the face of thesame opportunities available to black americans, thesame racism faced by black american (and discrimination FROM black Americans) but with the added burden of having to make it in a new land, new culture and in many cases new language. So stop the whining!
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Posted: Sunday June 3rd, 2007 04:17 |
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Hard Work and Dedication pays off for Immigrant wonder Boy Genius.
One of the 'Lost Boys' of Sudan earns Two Degrees from University of San Diego
By Dean Calbreath
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
May 28, 2007
As Daniel Akech Thiong stepped forward yesterday to take his diploma from the University of San Diego, he punched the air with both fists in a gesture of victory.
The graduation confirmed just how far he had come from wandering the deserts of eastern Africa as one of the “Lost Boys� of the civil war in Sudan.

HOWARD LIPIN / Union-Tribune
Daniel Akech Thiong celebrated after he received his diploma yesterday at the University of San Diego. Thiong plans to pursue a doctorate in mathematics and eventually become a math professor.
Because of the war, Thiong did not go to school until the age of 15. Nine years later, he has earned two degrees from USD: one in mathematics, the other in theology.
What did he feel? “Relief.�
Out of 1,200 or so USD students who received bachelor's degrees Saturday and yesterday, about 50 graduated with double majors. And few faced Thiong's linguistic and cultural hurdles.
“Most of us can never imagine where he's come (from) and what he's achieved,� said Cynthia Villis, director of USD's Institute for College Initiatives. “He's a very special guy.� Thiong's journey to graduation began about 1990, when his largely Christian village in southern Sudan was overrun by Islamic forces during a religious civil war.
Thiong's parents and several siblings fled in one direction; Thiong, who was about 7 or 8, and older sister Angeth fled the other way. In the confusion of war, the two parts of the family could not find each other. As he and Angeth huddled together in the desert one night, weakened by thirst and hunger, guerrillas kidnapped her and left him alone to die.
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