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| Moderated by: Saida.M, safetyblitz, Raven, Miss Brighter Days, LadyDay, Kunjufu, Kibibi, Happiness, Dillinger, Breadfruit, Backatya |
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Backatya
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Posted: Friday May 18th, 2007 15:42 |
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A question.
Remember the case of the black woman who packed all them children in a car without a seatbelt and ended up in an accident which killed and injured some? Well is there anyone here who 'condemned her careless/stupidity/neglect or whatever, who are in the camp which believes that Maddy's parents should not be blamed/condemned?
I am just wondering is all, if people can see a common principle between that earlier event and this one? In both cases (I would certainly assume) the adults involved did not mean for harm to come to the children, so we are not condemning them for being evil or anything. However, in both situations there was a 'lapse in judgement', or 'sheer stupidity' (take your pick), in that an adult, or adults, made a decision which did not fully take into account the possible reprocussions on those in their care.
I certainly feel for the children (Maddy in this case and the children in the other case) and even sympathy for the adults, as I can't see that they meant the child(ren) to come to harm. However, I don't see how in one case people can apply understanding and sympathy and in another 'outright condemnation' when both are 'guilty' for failing in a very important duty.........i.e. looking out for the interest of children in their care.
I am not saying Maddy's parents should be hanged, drawn and quartered. Indeed, I thought the 'punishment' metered out to the woman in the other case was rather harsh. But I do think it is a bit much to paint a picture of Maddy's parents as almost 'helpless victims'. They, like this woman, failed in a duty of care and that needs to be acknowledged. If for no other reason than to send a message to all parents that when it comes to our children there is no room for even slight lapses as the potential price paid by our children could end up being too much to bear thinking about.
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CashMoney
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Posted: Friday May 18th, 2007 16:00 |
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@ Backatya
Ms Dublin killed four people through her ecklessness and brain damaged the rest, including her son
You should be embarassed about making the link between the two
As tenous a link as you can get. Not even 10%. If poor Maddy turns up dead/injured then maybe some comparison can be made but at the moment its laughable.
No doubt Maddy's parents were unbeleivably stupid but Ms Dublin was on a different stratosphere when it comes to duty of care failure
Must be some rainbow hippy if you think two years( effectively 1) is harsh for 4 lives lost and another 4 permamantly ruined
Oh let me guess, she 'suffered' enough 'rolls eyes'
Last edited on Friday May 18th, 2007 16:05 by CashMoney
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Backatya
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Posted: Friday May 18th, 2007 16:07 |
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CashMoney wrote: @ Backatya
Ms Dublin killed four people through her ecklessness and brain damaged the rest, including her son
You should be embarassed about making the link between the two
As tenous a link as you can get. Not even 1%. If poor Maddy turns up dead then maybe some comparison can be made but at the moment its laughable
Must be some rainbow hippy if you think two years( effectively 1) is harsh for 4 lives lost and another 4 permamantly ruined
Oh let me guess, she 'suffered' enough 'rolls eyes'
Cashmoney
Not being funny, but it doesn't surprise me that the correllation between the two cases is above your level of understanding. It all comes done to whether you rate 'degree of recklessness' above 'degree of impact' or visa versa.
Put some brain matter to that concept, instead of applying your brain to purile attempts at name put downs.
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Footprints
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Posted: Friday May 18th, 2007 16:12 |
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What can we say IT'S THE POWER OF THE MEDIA. Sad though that other EQUALLY serious matters happening in other communities are treated as irrelevant because they dont get the necessary MEDIA COVERAGE. Sad for Maddie though each morning I turn the telly on I'm thinking "Maybe they have found her", so that other equally serious matters in other communities can get some air time too.
Lisbon - Wealthy Britons, including Virgin boss Sir Richard Branson, have offered more reward money to help find missing British girl Madeleine McCann, known as "Maddie", bringing the total offered from Britain to nearly £2.5m on Saturday.
The girl, who turned four on Saturday, disappeared from her room at a seaside resort near the village of Praia da Luz in the Algarve on May 3 as her parents ate dinner in a nearby restaurant.
Marking their daughter's birthday, Gerry and Kate McCann, both 38-year-old doctors from the English Midlands, on Saturday called for intensified efforts to find her.
"On Madeleine's birthday we ask you to continue the search and to continue to pray. Please help us to bring Madeleine home," they said in a statement read in Portuguese by the administrator of the Praia de Luz resort.
Appeals
Branson and others offered £1.5m for information leading to her return.
The additional money announced by the News of the World, which has itself pledged £250 000, brings the total offered to £2.5m.
The Times newspaper reported on Friday that Stephen Winyard, who owns Scottish health spa Stobo Castle, had offered a reward of £1m.
Winyard, a 57-year-old father-of-three who lives in Monaco, said he was moved to come forward by photographs of the toddler's anguished parents.
More big names in sport on Saturday joined calls for her safe return. The stars, including Chelsea coach Jose Mourinho, made their appeal in the Portuguese sports daily Record.
"This is a child and children are the best the world has to offer," Mourinho said.
Portugal's coach Luiz Felipe Scolari called on "the parents and the child to have faith. The little girl turns four this Saturday and tomorrow we commemorate the 90th anniversary of the apparition of Our Lady of Fatima, so we'll expect a miracle."
The appeals followed similar calls by Manchester United's Portugal winger Cristiano Ronaldo, Real Madrid and England superstar David Beckham, Chelsea's England captain John Terry and Portugal defender Paulo Ferreira.
Thoughts and sympathies
British finance minister Gordon Brown, who is expected to succeed Tony Blair as prime minister, said, "Every parent I know will be thinking about Maddie's family. Every parent will be thinking about what they can do to help the parents and will be sympathising with them in this hour of need."
"My thoughts, like the thoughts of all parents, are with Maddie's parents," father-of-two Brown added.
Portuguese police meanwhile pushed on with their investigation after questioning several British tourists staying at the Algarve resort late on Friday.
Last edited on Friday May 18th, 2007 16:18 by Footprints
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menzzingos
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Posted: Friday May 18th, 2007 18:18 |
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Melissa wrote: @ menzzingos Huh!?
Not sure why you aimed your comments specifically at me.
Its not even a case of 'believing' you would not do the same thing, its not common practice in any sense of the word. I am the type of parent who drives alongside my 12yr old son at 5mph so that he can ride his bike the short distance from my mothers house to our home after dark. To leave him alone at the age of 3 for any reason never once entered my mind.
I have every concern and sympathy for the little girl, the news coverage about her 'brave' parents 'traumatic' ordeal is what is getting to me the most - IT WAS THEIR FAULT! and the notion that those of us who condemn the parents should feel bad because the little girl is still lost. is flawed.
Whether they find her alive or not, the parents are fundamentally to blame, they put her life at risk for the sake of socialisng and they should be punished for it. I refuse to apologise for holding that opinion.
Another theory going around is that there were road works at the end of their apartment block which continued after the Maddy went missing, The Daily Mail this morning are saying that she could have walked out of the apartment and fell into a hole which has since been covered up - it doesn't bear thinking about.
Right Melisa,
And forthrightly blaming the parents right now Or complaining about the media attention the story is getting is somehow more important to express than the hope/wish that the child is returned safe and sound???
Priority is my point, as for me her parents errors are not my biggest worry, that an innocent child, alive and unharmed is returned to safety be it with her parents or social services .... thats keeps my attention more
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SoulRebel
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Posted: Friday May 18th, 2007 18:22 |
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There isn't an argument against the parental responsibility point, and my guess is the McCanns know this, whether they admit it to themselves or not. None of us would want to be in their situation, though I for one would not have placed myself there in the first place. If I'm in an unfamiliar country with my kids at that age, they do not leave my sight. Period.
One of the big differences between this and many other cases, though, is how the parents have reacted. The McCanns have actively courted and stoked the publicity for longer than most, clearly taking advantage of their status and contacts. Whilst I understand their reasons for doing so, it may well backfire on them badly if (as is unfortunately looking increasing likely) Maddy is not found alive - and no way do I want that as an outcome. The mainstream media have largely avoided concentrating on the McCanns responsibility for now - gotta wonder how long that will last, as the signs are that it is beginning to turn. Not in the tabloids yet, but give them time.....
Not that the media needed any encouragement to get on the story, and they have performed predictably enough - Sky News has pretty much turned into 'Maddy News' for the past fortnight. Once the story draws to a conclusion, they'll need to find new angles - which is when it may turn sour for the parents. I hope they do not live to regret the way they have driven things, over and above the hype that the news media will generate by themselves.
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CashMoney
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Posted: Friday May 18th, 2007 19:45 |
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@ Backatya
My levels of comprehension are perfectly fine but I appreciate your concern nevertheless
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Melissa
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Posted: Monday May 21st, 2007 12:30 |
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SoulRebel wrote: There isn't an argument against the parental responsibility point, and my guess is the McCanns know this, whether they admit it to themselves or not. None of us would want to be in their situation, though I for one would not have placed myself there in the first place. If I'm in an unfamiliar country with my kids at that age, they do not leave my sight. Period.
One of the big differences between this and many other cases, though, is how the parents have reacted. The McCanns have actively courted and stoked the publicity for longer than most, clearly taking advantage of their status and contacts. Whilst I understand their reasons for doing so, it may well backfire on them badly if (as is unfortunately looking increasing likely) Maddy is not found alive - and no way do I want that as an outcome. The mainstream media have largely avoided concentrating on the McCanns responsibility for now - gotta wonder how long that will last, as the signs are that it is beginning to turn. Not in the tabloids yet, but give them time.....
Not that the media needed any encouragement to get on the story, and they have performed predictably enough - Sky News has pretty much turned into 'Maddy News' for the past fortnight. Once the story draws to a conclusion, they'll need to find new angles - which is when it may turn sour for the parents. I hope they do not live to regret the way they have driven things, over and above the hype that the news media will generate by themselves.
Couldn't have replied to Mezzingos better....
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chi
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Posted: Monday May 21st, 2007 13:13 |
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The only thing that bothers me is this tip-toeing around the parent's neglect.
The issue is not that Madeline is recieving too much help or attention.she's a four year old who was kidnapped in a foreign country.....no stone should be left unturned, and I think that goes without saying.
The issue is that not every child may have recieved the same, if the parents were road sweepers or on benefits would it be the same reaction? How about if she wasn't such a pretty girl and maybe 10 years old instead of four?
However, its being treated as an emergency because it is one.
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Peacemaker
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Posted: Monday May 21st, 2007 15:24 |
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The only mildly annoying thing is that I'm sure people go missing every week, and even if a fraction of the media coverage was spent on just one or two of those that decided to wander off lets say, they might have been found already. Actually it's downright disgusting.
Who to say this kid didn't wander off by herself, go outside, walk down to the beach perhaps looking for Mummy and Dadddy because she was in a strange place by all by herself and just got swept away. Secondly I find it very strange that they think some stranger took the kid, because in reality the people that take children in that fashion are generally know them, if only briefly. Sounds awfully planned if the kid was kidnapped and really someone would of noticed a stranger hanging about scheming away. Have they actually checked the sea yet?
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday May 21st, 2007 20:06 |
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ok someone tell me if I'm being harsh...but today i see there are calls for a minutes silence for the young lass...Now come on..isn't that taking things just a touch too far... I see website being put up, calling for money and more condolense and now I think the world has gone completely mad...or am i being unkind?
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BIG L
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Posted: Monday May 21st, 2007 20:24 |
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K that website got 40 million hits!!! 
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Melissa
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Posted: Tuesday May 22nd, 2007 11:26 |
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40 million people - 39.9million jumping on the bandwagon!
I don't understand the minutes silence, isn't that for people who have died?
All this extra publicity is possibly sending the abductors further underground.
I mean, there is next to no chance that anyone who had her, even innocently, would come forward now - no chance.
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chi
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Posted: Tuesday May 22nd, 2007 12:08 |
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| Yep Melissa I agree....those holding her will almost certainly go further underground....awareness is good, but they may be making it less probable that she will be found....they may even kill her in the panic.
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Melissa
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Posted: Tuesday May 22nd, 2007 13:18 |
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chi wrote: Yep Melissa I agree....those holding her will almost certainly go further underground....awareness is good, but they may be making it less probable that she will be found....they may even kill her in the panic.
I was thinking the same thing......
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girl21
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Posted: Wednesday May 23rd, 2007 12:26 |
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i think the hysteria is a sign that the british (white) community know they have something lacking and they need to overreact to incidents like this and princess diana to give them some sense of togetherness.
i think they are using the abduction as a way to live in a pretend society where everyone cares about each other and looks after each other in times of need rather than face the truth.
all this foolishness has got nothing to do with the little girl and won't benefit her one bit, its just an opportunity for people to experience a false sense of commaradery.
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Dada
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 19:49 |
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I have delibrately avoided most of the foray about this Child.
Everyone keeps saying, the Parents were foolish in leaving the Child alone with other children but no adults.
Surely in a Modern civilised society a child should be able to sleep safely in it's bed.
In Africa, children are highly regarded and looked after by it's community, unpaid for.
I question the society we live in that makes us feel it's not safe to have children to sleep in their beds, walk the streets or play outside without Adult supervision?
Last edited on Thursday May 24th, 2007 19:50 by Dada
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comfortandjoy
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 20:19 |
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Dada wrote: I have delibrately avoided most of the foray about this Child.
Everyone keeps saying, the Parents were foolish in leaving the Child alone with other children but no adults.
Surely in a Modern civilised society a child should be able to sleep safely in it's bed.
In Africa, children are highly regarded and looked after by it's community, unpaid for.
I question the society we live in that makes us feel it's not safe to have children to sleep in their beds, walk the streets or play outside without Adult supervision?
So what are people to do? Deal with the reality (which is that it is NOT safe) and take proper care of their children, or rebel against that reality and leave children unattended and unsupervised knowing that bad things can/do/will befall them?
I think it makes more sense to recognise the type of society we do live in, and act accordingly.
It's just commonsense that in western society children need to be protected from predators, and other common dangers like traffic and toxic household substances, and any parent who ignores that is a fool.
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 20:58 |
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Purely out of interest, how much media coverage has been given to this case and how many posts are there about it on this messageboard?
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menzzingos
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Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2007 21:47 |
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Melissa wrote: SoulRebel wrote: There isn't an argument against the parental responsibility point, and my guess is the McCanns know this, whether they admit it to themselves or not. None of us would want to be in their situation, though I for one would not have placed myself there in the first place. If I'm in an unfamiliar country with my kids at that age, they do not leave my sight. Period.
One of the big differences between this and many other cases, though, is how the parents have reacted. The McCanns have actively courted and stoked the publicity for longer than most, clearly taking advantage of their status and contacts. Whilst I understand their reasons for doing so, it may well backfire on them badly if (as is unfortunately looking increasing likely) Maddy is not found alive - and no way do I want that as an outcome. The mainstream media have largely avoided concentrating on the McCanns responsibility for now - gotta wonder how long that will last, as the signs are that it is beginning to turn. Not in the tabloids yet, but give them time.....
Not that the media needed any encouragement to get on the story, and they have performed predictably enough - Sky News has pretty much turned into 'Maddy News' for the past fortnight. Once the story draws to a conclusion, they'll need to find new angles - which is when it may turn sour for the parents. I hope they do not live to regret the way they have driven things, over and above the hype that the news media will generate by themselves.
Couldn't have replied to Mezzingos better....
Melisa ,
Actually ur point was yards away from Soul Rebels from reading your former posts , you quite out rightly were gunning about how "u could never do what her parents did...blah blah" , "why are is the girl getting so much attention,afterall she's not the only missing kid blah blah... which is not the same as showing concern about how not all publicity can be positive for the incident, Yes I agree with the idea that maybe the bigger the media attention is getting could possibly not defintely work against them, because no one needs to decieve themselves the media is a business afterall and have clearly taken over things. But who on this site is so experienced at losing their child and is therefore all up on the "right" media ettiquette/look required to get the kid returned?? Many a crying/wailing parent has turned out to b the same person who put their kid under the pation. My biggest concern is still for the child, for the fact that she is the only truly innocent party in this whole issue and regardless of what we think about her parents or the media, she deserves to be safe and sound.
I will also say that the minutes silence was totally uncalled for , afterall she's not definately dead yet, a clear sign that even the parents have lost control of the "racket" some people on here believe they are running due to their loss...
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Dada
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Posted: Friday May 25th, 2007 17:11 |
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Comfort and Joy:
The reality is that the harm done to children is more likely to come from the Home that child lives in than from a stranger. That's a fact.
Although, I suppose in a "Me" society that is a responsibility "We" as a society would rather not take. No amount of publicity and can take away from the parents that they were in the "Me" part of society when their child was "Taken" from them. ("Taken") as that is what is being assumed.
Which is why I question the socalled "Civilised" society that the European like to hold up as the shining example of an advanced culture, which the rest of the world should be following.
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CashMoney
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Posted: Saturday May 26th, 2007 08:06 |
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menzzingos wrote: Melissa wrote: SoulRebel wrote: There isn't an argument against the parental responsibility point, and my guess is the McCanns know this, whether they admit it to themselves or not. None of us would want to be in their situation, though I for one would not have placed myself there in the first place. If I'm in an unfamiliar country with my kids at that age, they do not leave my sight. Period.
One of the big differences between this and many other cases, though, is how the parents have reacted. The McCanns have actively courted and stoked the publicity for longer than most, clearly taking advantage of their status and contacts. Whilst I understand their reasons for doing so, it may well backfire on them badly if (as is unfortunately looking increasing likely) Maddy is not found alive - and no way do I want that as an outcome. The mainstream media have largely avoided concentrating on the McCanns responsibility for now - gotta wonder how long that will last, as the signs are that it is beginning to turn. Not in the tabloids yet, but give them time.....
Not that the media needed any encouragement to get on the story, and they have performed predictably enough - Sky News has pretty much turned into 'Maddy News' for the past fortnight. Once the story draws to a conclusion, they'll need to find new angles - which is when it may turn sour for the parents. I hope they do not live to regret the way they have driven things, over and above the hype that the news media will generate by themselves.
Couldn't have replied to Mezzingos better....
Melisa ,
Actually ur point was yards away from Soul Rebels from reading your former posts , you quite out rightly were gunning about how "u could never do what her parents did...blah blah" , "why are is the girl getting so much attention,afterall she's not the only missing kid blah blah... which is not the same as showing concern about how not all publicity can be positive for the incident, Yes I agree with the idea that maybe the bigger the media attention is getting could possibly not defintely work against them, because no one needs to decieve themselves the media is a business afterall and have clearly taken over things. But who on this site is so experienced at losing their child and is therefore all up on the "right" media ettiquette/look required to get the kid returned?? Many a crying/wailing parent has turned out to b the same person who put their kid under the pation. My biggest concern is still for the child, for the fact that she is the only truly innocent party in this whole issue and regardless of what we think about her parents or the media, she deserves to be safe and sound.
I will also say that the minutes silence was totally uncalled for , afterall she's not definately dead yet, a clear sign that even the parents have lost control of the "racket" some people on here believe they are running due to their loss...
Menzzingoes KO1 Melissa
Dont bother trying to respond. You dont have the wherewithal
As for the case
21 days. I hope for a positive outcome but won't hold my breath
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Peacemaker
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| Joined: | Saturday May 15th, 2004 |
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Posted: Saturday May 26th, 2007 13:30 |
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Hysteria....eh.
Probably what killed the child.
What do you think the kid's father would say to the person who stole the kid?
Please let me have her back, I'll even turn my back a | | | |
