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The Watcher
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 09:18 |
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I never understood why people place so much importance on that show. It's just hot air
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Incognito
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 09:35 |
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The Watcher - I used to watch that show religiously but that was really to do with my political awareness stage in life. It's all a front and for all the political nous and diversity between opposing parties, once actually in power they are all the same. StillI wouldn't mind putting a socialist in government to test that theory even further.
When have England ever apologised for anything. It would open the floodgates, their stance is ok, there was some wrong done but take that on the chin and move on...in true British Bulldog fashion. Sorry is for wimps but know this, they are fully aware what will happen if everyone played by these rules...hence their strength in military depth.
This is where you need to check the intelligence of Toyins actions and the breadth of his argument. The powers that be will try to brush him off as another attention seeker looking for a black v white apology without dealing with the key principles of his protest for example if there is no need to apologise why are we praying to God to ask for forgiveness - I think Bishop Carey got slight wind of this.
But yeah, don't ramp with the guile of a grey..they'll have you chasing your tail in ever decreasing circles. It's called poliTRICKS. We need to be smart and shrewd or as Sizzla put it, we need to trick all of their tricks. The same christianity that put Africa in chains is the same chrsitianity employed now.
Just look at English law today, if you are ever at their mercy you will find the victims of crimes are protected or thought of the least. It's never about individual or personal suffering it's about what constitutes a crime. Personal suffering? just ask them how they got confessions in guantanamo bay.
In an ironic twist an apology for slavery falls into that same category of innocent until proven guilty. It's down to us to prove their guilt and what Toyin done told everyone if there's only one man willing and ready to die to prove it then that man is him. We cannot let him down, even if it's to say we've got his back.
Last edited on Friday March 30th, 2007 09:56 by Incognito
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african_woman
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 10:07 |
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Incognito wrote: Saw right through this as well
http://www.blackbritain.co.uk/news/details.aspx?i=2404&c=uk&h=President+Kufuor+urged+not+to+shame+Africans+by+accepting+Knighthood+from+the+Queen
President Kufuor urged not to shame Africans by accepting Knighthood from the Queen
Category: uk Dated: 15/03/2007
Rumours that the Ghanaian President could be knighted by the Queen have met with fierce opposition both on the continent and in the Diaspora who feel that it goes against everything that African independence stands for.
Deborah Gabriel
Head of an African Sovereign state should not pledge allegiance with the British Empire
You cannot, right after commemorating the 50th anniversary of Ghana’s independence come and pledge allegiance to the Queen...
Kofi Mawuli Klu, Rendezvous of Victory
Rumours that the Ghanaian President could be knighted by the Queen have met with fierce opposition both on the continent and in the Diaspora who feel that it goes against everything that African independence stands for.
Insight Newspaper reported that rumours were circulating that President Kufuor could be offered a knighthood by the Queen, but the paper said that if accepted, this would make him “an obedient servant of the Queen,� which would be “a huge insult,� to Africans who fought for the country’s independence.
Whilst the British establishment prepares to commemorate the Abolition of Slavery Act in 1807, descendants of Africans in the Diaspora are organising their own events throughout the country to educate people on the role that Africans played in their own liberation, which is continually downplayed by the mainstream, led by the British government.
The fact that Ghana celebrates just 50 years of independence serves as a reminder that 150 years after the Abolition Act was passed, former colonies only just started to gain independence after the British Empire had continued to invade African countries and dispossess Africans from their land, most of which is still occupied by wealthy white minorities throughout the continent.
Insight also reminds President Kufuor that the same British Empire plotted with the CIA to remove Dr Kwame Nkrumah, the first President of Ghana and a key player in the Pan African liberation movement.
Whilst speculation continues to fuel debate on the continent over the Knighthood, Africans in the UK Diaspora are equally enraged at the prospect of a knighthood being accepted by President Kufuor. Kofi Mawuli Klu, Joint Co-ordinator of Rendezvous of Victory and Chair of the Pan Afrikan Task Force for Internationalist Dialogue, who was born in Ghana told Black Britain:
“You cannot, right after commemorating the 50th anniversary of Ghana’s independence come and pledge allegiance to the Queen and even contemplate receiving this preposterous knighthood, which formally puts you among the servants of the Queen and at the same time claim that you are the head of a sovereign Ghana.�
President Kufuor urged to engage with the UK African Disapora
why doesn’t he find time to meet the African Diaspora, many of whom are descendants of enslaved Africans brought over from Ghana?
Kofi Mawuli Klu, Rendezvous of Victory
Mawuli Klu said that in light of the Joseph Project which has been extensively promoted by the Ghanaian government that the priority should be to engage in dialogue with Africans in the Diaspora about “unfinished business,� concerning the legacies of the Maangamizi (African Holocaust):
“Whilst he has time to go and see the Queen and the British establishment, why doesn’t he find time to meet the African Diaspora, many of whom are descendants of enslaved Africans brought over from Ghana?�
In July last year, President Kufuor attracted criticism for opening the Wilberforce Institute in Hull, seen as part of the agenda of the British establishment to downplay the role of Africans in their resistance to chattel enslavement and as agents of their own liberation whilst perpetuating propaganda that attests Britain passed the Abolition Act out of moral compulsion, and not because it was no longer profitable.
Mawuli Klu told Black Britain that just as there were collaborators colluding with the oppressors of African peoples during chattel enslavement and colonisation, so today there are: “still people selling out our nations to the descendants of our slave masters.�
As head of the African Union, representing the entire continent, for President Kufuor to accept a knighthood from the Queen would be tantamount to “an act of treason to Africans worldwide and it must be condemned as such.�
In order to demonstrate that the heavily promoted Joseph Project, a programme to “repair and heal� relations between Africans on the continent and in the Diaspora, President Kufuor should demonstrate his sincerity by meeting with Africans in the Diaspora, Mawuli Klu said:
“and on the top of the agenda for that meeting should be reparations. We are prepared to have that dialogue with him.�
© Colourful Network 2007
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Apedemak
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 10:51 |
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It's becoming clear to me that be it the Vikings or world war two, it's clear the English simply see slavery as part and parcel of their barbaric history.
We're trying to appeal to a Neanderthals sence of consiounce, something they just don't have. They're a bunch of blood thirsty weapons making warmongers and always have been. To be honest I don't want an apology from the devil and its spawn I'd rather we didn't ask but made sure we recognised them for who they are. A genocidial race of people we'd do well not to trust.
Wheres the NOI, the New Black Panthers and what not in all of this? We should be taking from Toyins lead and be out there militant flex throwing spanners in the works. Otherwise we're gonna be walking around with this;
http://www.westminstercollection.com/pc_7675.htm
In our pockets and all this taught to kids in schools pitting C.Africans against disporans and what not.
Last edited on Friday March 30th, 2007 10:56 by Apedemak
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Incognito
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 11:08 |
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Apedemak - again illustrating the significance of Toyin asking the African Christians to walk out with him i.e. if you're not going to apologise which going by your barbaric history to your present war in Iraq, then we truly don't expect you to but don't dare try to insult us even further with this Wilberfarce celebration.
Last edited on Friday March 30th, 2007 11:09 by Incognito
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LLoydy64
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 11:49 |
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Toyin is a true example to us all!
Brothaman kept it real and represented.
On levels I feel sad that there weren't a few more of us there who were ready to make the stand he did... (my self included...)
Also I for one definitely believe there was nothing at all wrong with his timing...
If anything his timing and actions are what made this episode so poignant...
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Judge J
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 12:28 |
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To be honest with you I don't bother with Question Time, unless they allow people to ring in and challenege their foolishness.
Ive been in a similar forum like that before, its just a bunch of idiots saying what the public want to hear, and seeing who can gain the most applause from the dumb european public.
They are jsut a bunch of SELF ABSORBED, RACIST, IGNORANT SONS/DAUGHTERS OF b**chES .
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Apedemak
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 12:33 |
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Some of it is staged.
They get people in to ask questions and stick up for one side or the other. The whole media industry is like that, rigged to the hilt. Theres a guy on here who knows one of the contestants for that Island program where that european woman was saying we should all be slaves, his friend said they coaxed her into saying it to up ratings something Ligali should really be aware of cause we're all here gettign vexed at this and that while they're straight up pulling our strings. From big brother to Question time they know what they're doing.
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Dada
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 16:24 |
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We don't need an apology.
We need to redress the negative rationale, that was used to justify the Slave Trade, and which still hangs around in the air.
This is not going to come from the host nation.
We are in a time where people have very short memories and with the absence of grainy black and white films of bulldozers ploughing corpses into pits, lifting up a pair of chains is not going to do it for the British Public.
Watched both Question Time and Roots revisited the later was good the former shocking.
What we lack is what we have always seemed to lack and that is the cohesion to make an impact as an economic and political body as a community. While we don't and in many cases can afford to trust the Host nation the sad fact is that often times we cannot trust each other either. Then in lies the rub. Until we get Organised we shall remain as indiduals fighting or "rebelling! on our own.
Yvonne Thomspon, a woman I have little regard for, did try to hold our own againt that BBC crowd, and as already mentioned it was a baying crowd with Demogues throwing bait towards, notably the Asian conservative.
The Roots programme, for people of my generation can remember was the first time that European and White "Americans" even realised what slavery was about. Prior to that it was simply a name, the Programme ROOTs placed it in a context and that was the time when people openly in the Street "Did apologised" for the acts of their ancestors.
As mentioned before, if the Nation cannot from an Official stand point give an apology then why celebrate Trafalgar, or Guy Fawkes ???? If we can celebrate as a nation surely as a nation they can commerate. This and at the same time the European Union doe's not want Turkey to join them until they can accept it's role in the Areminenen (spelling) genocide. And in Germany as well as Austria it's an offense, by a prision term simply to deny the Jewish Holocaust. Yet in Britain we (collective) cannot accept the impact of Slavery where people are still running about with the names of their original slave master stamped on their official documents.
As mentioned before, rather than a demand for an apology which is futile, far better to simply on a specified day all Black people refuse to work and take the day off and send in a Bag of Sugar by recorded delivery to the Government, as the summation of what our ancestors sacrifice was all over about.
And to push the point even further ask for a one off "Inheritance Tax" from Tate & Lyle, Llyodds and another existing organisation that has benefited directly from the slave trade.
Last edited on Friday March 30th, 2007 16:29 by Dada
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Incognito
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 19:16 |
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Dada/Apedemak - this apology thing. I've been thinking is it only those with a spiritual connection with their ancestry who see the need for an apology? From an apology to an African identyity, do those without that connection fail to see what all the fuss is about?
Likewise, does barbarian Britain expect us to be showing them forgiveness for a crime their ancestors comitted? Or maybe within this context of spirituality at least the church should be able to see the need for an apology, and probably more important the need for that apology to be officially accepted.
Is it the case that an apology should be given for those who feel the need for it? Let's say not every African feels that need, isn't it equal to say that there must be some descendants of the pereptrators who feel there is a need.
The more I see what the government, The royal family and the church are defending, the more I see that an apology is never going to happen - it's all business to them which governement and royalty aside is what makes the church such a hypocrite - but then who's the fool for thinking they are all not one of the same.
So maybe it's for individuals and individual groups to apologise if they feel the need and then only to those who also feel the need. An example.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2021382,00.html
When England look to their past at their pioneers and their war heroes like Nelson, it's not from a spiritual perspective it's just a another tick box which help lay the foundations for financial prosperity. When they commemorate their war dead, it's not emotional it's more the case of think how poor we would be as a nation if these soldiers didn't lay their lives on the line.
So, with money and finance at the core of English government, royalty, church and general culture, what do we really expect. Anyone would think these people are being asked to apologise for slavery in its entirety yet even an apology for the role their country played in the slave era seems a far fetched concept. Now we are led to believe they do not take thanks and praises for acts of charity done by their foreparents, they simply commemorate them.
I see it even more now, that barbarianism is so part and parcel of the English culture that asking them to apologise is like them asking us to apologise for being African.
An International headline:
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7006880049
Last edited on Friday March 30th, 2007 19:23 by Incognito
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Incognito
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 19:18 |
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Dada - Inheritance tax? For many an apology is worth so much more than the finance the governement are sh!tting themselves over....but then I guess there are just as many where the reverse is true
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 19:40 |
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This photograph shames Barbados, the Caribbean and the entire African world ...
With Brother Toyin behind bars at the mercy of the Police, the Prime Minister of Barbados, Elder Owen Arthur, parties with the descendants of his enslavers at the Wilberforce Party
An African Disgrace
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Rastawoman
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 20:43 |
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MarcusGarveyLives wrote:
This photograph shames Barbados, the Caribbean and the entire African world ...
With Brother Toyin behind bars at the mercy of the Police, the Prime Minister of Barbados, Elder Owen Arthur, parties with the descendants of his enslavers at the Wilberforce Party
An African Disgrace
I am from Barbados and I couldn't agree more, he's a disgrace for true, this man only meets with "his people" near to election time and pays them money to vote for his alcoholic ass.Doesn't suprise me at all that he's over here kissing ass DISGRACE And Respect to Toyin
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Le Moor
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 21:30 |
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MarcusGarveyLives wrote:
This photograph shames Barbados, the Caribbean and the entire African world ...
With Brother Toyin behind bars at the mercy of the Police, the Prime Minister of Barbados, Elder Owen Arthur, parties with the descendants of his enslavers at the Wilberforce Party
An African Disgrace
ROFLMAO
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Breadfruit
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 21:36 |
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An apology is an admission that you have done something wrong.
The main reason why the state refuses to even think about an apology, is that they see nothing wrong, with treating Africans as sub-human, (Racism), today, forget the 18th century!!
They debate whether murdering millions was wrong, often saying "slavery is normal. and part of being human , our joint history".
They don't debate, if killing millions of Jews, was morally perverse, but the wrong in killing millions of Africans becomes a matter of opinion; and an apology is openly denounced from the highest places.
You say sorry when you recognise you have done wrong.
When has white power recognised it's wrong to abuse African life. 1619, 1776, 1807 1959, 2007?
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sista girl
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Posted: Saturday March 31st, 2007 00:11 |
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Toyin
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday March 31st, 2007 00:58 |
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MarcusGarveyLives wrote:
This photgraph is of a remarkable Bajan hero relevant to this debate. It was because of his spirit and others like him, that we eventually won our freedom. Long live Bussa. Last edited on Saturday March 31st, 2007 01:06 by Le Moor
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Saturday March 31st, 2007 02:08 |
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Good job brother Toyin; mashing up the gatherings of the babylonians.
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Posted: Saturday March 31st, 2007 02:20 |
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Breadfruit wrote: An apology is an admission that you have done something wrong.
The main reason why the state refuses to even think about an apology, is that they see nothing wrong, with treating Africans as sub-human, (Racism), today, forget the 18th century!!
They debate whether murdering millions was wrong, often saying "slavery is normal. and part of being human , our joint history".
They don't debate, if killing millions of Jews, was morally perverse, but the wrong in killing millions of Africans becomes a matter of opinion; and an apology is openly denounced from the highest places.
You say sorry when you recognise you have done wrong.
When has white power recognised it's wrong to abuse African life. 1619, 1776, 1807 1959, 2007?
Breadfruit - My brotha you gone and done it again. I'm hearing all this talk about Africans selling Africans and Africans running around villages rounding up other Africans but no one is talking about how many Africans murdered other Africans and dehumanised them recognising them as livestock.
There is a lot of talk from the government about leading the way and showing the world that they have set the precedent when it comes to the abolishion of slavery when surely if they want to lead the way then apologise for the role they played in the trading of slaves, don't watch what anybody else did.
Like many I'm only versed with the English/American involvement in this slave trade. Would make interesting reading to compare the different treatment of African slaves between these and other countries like Portugal.
Last edited on Saturday March 31st, 2007 02:21 by Incognito
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Posted: Saturday March 31st, 2007 02:27 |
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It all boils down to that concept of as long as something is financially rewarding, its morally acceptable. Like the casualties of war, the casualties of the slave trade are expendible in the name of the end game. Money.
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Posted: Saturday March 31st, 2007 12:18 |
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Incognito;
I agree with both your post, i.e the down playing of African involvement and with Breadfruit, in Western Worlds relucance to make a formal Apology, although as you have shown different states in the U.S are making that leap forward.
When Bread Fruit ( a nuturtional substance brought over from Tahiti I believe for african slaves in the Caribbean) mentions:
They don't debate, if killing millions of Jews, was morally perverse, but the wrong in killing millions of Africans becomes a matter of opinion; and an apology is openly denounced from the highest places
What is obmitted is that Africans do not control the Media, Africans do not play a central role in the Captialist system. Africans are not in the highest Echelons of Power like the Jews have been and are.
Or to parapharse: Do you think the difference between this Guy:
And that Guy is Luck? :
That is the reason for a lack of Apology.
I say: Stick your Apology up your ar*e, from now on I am not paying your so-called debts and I am exporting all my products and commodities to China and the Far East, Russia even anywhere but to the places that expolited us in the past.
(It is not ever going to happen that way though is it)
Last edited on Saturday March 31st, 2007 12:25 by Dada
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Posted: Saturday March 31st, 2007 13:18 |
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Dada - if it is a question about accountability then yes Africa should apologise on behalf of those Africans who sold other Africans into slavery but we must not be fooled into believeing this is the same charge England is being asked to apologise for.
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Posted: Saturday March 31st, 2007 14:37 |
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Dada wrote: Incognito;
I agree with both your post, i.e the down playing of African involvement and with Breadfruit, in Western Worlds relucance to make a formal Apology, although as you have shown different states in the U.S are making that leap forward.
When Brea |
