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Lovedaddy
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 07:01 |
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So here we have another family who want to be rewarded for slack morals, a refusal to use birth control and having more children then they can afford. Now they expect US all to have to pay to bring up their litter.
I say NO!
Everyone is responsible for their actions; why should I pay for his irresponsible lifestyle.....
Pure Scuzz....
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Dad of 14 sick of Britain
Squeeze release us, let us grow ... moaner Mick, who wants a bigger council house, peers out of window
By JOHN ASKILL
GRASPING dad Mick Philpott yesterday demanded a bigger council house for him, his 14 kids, his wife — and his mistress.
And when he was turned down, he had the nerve to blame the state of the nation.
The jobless 49-year-old moaned: “I used to love my country but I’m just sick of it now.
“I’m really ashamed of what’s happening. Britain is going down the pan.�
Philpott lives in a three-bedroom semi in Derby with wife Mairead, 25, his lover Lisa Willis, 22, and eight of the children.
'More space' ... dad Mick
But he insists he needs more space as he has to sleep in a tent when his SIX other kids from THREE previous girlfriends come to visit.
Philpott, whose children’s ages range from five months to 19 years old, said: “It’s very cramped already.
“But when everyone is here there is nowhere to sit. I end up sleeping in a tent in the garden and that’s not on.�
Philpott had four of his children with Mairead — Dwayne, seven, Jesse James, six, John, three, and two-year-old Jack.
But he has also moved in Lisa and the three kids he has had with her — Jade Louise, four, Shareen, two, and 11-month-old Katrina.
Lisa, who is expecting Philpott’s 15th child, also acts as stand-in mum to a boy from one of his previous relationships, six-year-old Jordan.
Life's ruff ... Mick sleeps in tent with dog when family visits
Pet labrador Goldie is yet another occupant of the house.
In keeping with the family way, she is pregnant.
Philpott’s other kids — David, 19, Richard, 18, Michaela, 15, Mikey, eight, Aiden, seven, and five-month-old Joshua — live elsewhere.
But the dad claims that when everyone gets together, conditions in the house are “intolerable�.
Derby City Council told him they simply do not have a bigger house on their books. But Philpott insisted: “We obviously need a new place but the council won’t give us one.
“They come up with the same excuses and they’re just not good enough.�
The dad even claimed the city’s housing burghers would jump and give him a new home immediately if he was an immigrant.
Humble semi ... family's home, with caravan on driveway
Philpott, who ran a bakery in the 1980s, last worked in July before losing a driving job. He picks up £248.60 a week in family and child tax payments, plus £60 child benefit.
His wife works part-time as a hospital cleaner.
Lisa gets £161 in income support plus £40 child benefit.
The family pays rent of £68 a week for the semi.
Philpott insisted he was no scrounger — and said of his bizarre relationships: “What man wouldn’t want two women? I love them both and could never choose between them.
“I reckon a lot of men would just love to be in my situation and I know I’m very happy.
“I’m just a good father. I love my kids more than anyone and want to see them every weekend. But when they come it’s just too much.�
Full house ... Mick, Lisa (left) Mairead and kids
He added: “Some people disagree with how I live but I don’t care. All that matters is my family and the fact is we’re overcrowded and need another bedroom.
“If there aren’t any four-bedroom houses we would be happy to move to another three-bedroom house with an extra room downstairs.
“That way we could use it as a bedroom.�
And Mairead backed his fight by saying: “The children don’t have their own bedrooms. We have to sleep wherever.�
Philpott owns a Mitsubishi Shogun and has a caravan parked in the drive.
But both have clearly seen better days and the caravan is just used for storage.
The city council last night confirmed it had received Philpott’s request but repeated that it had nothing available.
Housing chief Amar Nath said: “We would like to accommodate them but bigger houses are simply not out there.�
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006120261,00.html
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name
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 07:42 |
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Don't you pay VAT on everything you buy? Even scroungers probably contribute tax money when they buy all the stuff they do.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 09:05 |
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Of course he should get a bigger house
Prince Charles pays nothing and gets the best housing benefit in the world and no one says anything
If the govt has money to fight an illegal war in Iraq then housing these children shouldnt be a problem
right?
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 09:11 |
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Really Coltrane? In a perfect world where everyone displays pristine morality, you shouldn't judge people, but my parents had some problems with people like this. The council temporarily housed some people like that, and my parents found rubbish thrown into their backyard. Also trees pulled up (not pulled up, but stripped a little) , and a general coarsening of the atmosphere round their area.
I know why the sun is trying to frame and present them in a certain way, but a good chunk of their readers are probably like them too. Daily Mail usually likes to carry stories like this periodically.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 09:18 |
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| If the govt have money for an illegal war then it can house these children
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 09:32 |
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Now this man is not smart. I've a friend with 11 children and he's got 7 council flats between each of his babymothers
Man it's truly amazing as to what we now see as normal and the surprise we feel when seeing something that should be normal...like a happy African family
Last edited on Wednesday March 15th, 2006 09:34 by Incognito
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 09:34 |
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whats wrong with that?
how come you dont complain about the Royals having big houses and no one lives in them?
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Lovedaddy
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 10:02 |
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COLTRANE wrote: whats wrong with that?
how come you dont complain about the Royals having big houses and no one lives in them?
************************************
I'll complain about the Royals as well. The small difference is that they can more than afford to live in the manner they are accoustomed to.
The bottom line is why are you condoning irresponsible behavior of this man.
Straight question: Do you think it is acceptable for a person to have more children than they can afford, and expect the Tax payer to fund his iresponsible lifestyle?
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babygirl44
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 12:14 |
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COLTRANE wrote: whats wrong with that?
how come you dont complain about the Royals having big houses and no one lives in them?
I don't complain about the royal family because although I'm not their biggest fan I recognise that they generate a lot of money for the UK from tourism. The tourists sure aren't coming for our warm weather and beaches! The first place any American or Japanese tourist goes to when they get off the plane at Heathrow is Buckingham Palace or the Tower of London so you cannot compare these 2 sets of people. The Royals are just puppet show to draw in rich tourists.
On the other hand the man in the story is a dirty reckless old man. What's a big 49yr old man doing with a 25yr old wife and a 22 yr old girlfriend and a whole heap a pickney?
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 12:40 |
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Allenton, Derby. *lol*
Not all that uncommon actually. It's typical for the area.
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 12:42 |
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COLTRANE wrote: If the govt have money for an illegal war then it can house these children
It could also buy me another six houses but why should they?
They could also fund struggling charities.
But I see your point, it would cost more to put the kids into care.
Last edited on Wednesday March 15th, 2006 12:43 by Peacemaker
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 12:53 |
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Hey
I also read this article in the Express i think it was today.
The whole benfit system in this country is a big joke. He should have a bigger house because of all the kids but the increase in welfare should be an increase in conditions to the right to welfare. Sometimes as a student studying in Britan, i feel like why should my parent have to fork out so much money out of her taxes to make it easier for these scoungers to get the social, when she is working even harder to pay for my fees?
The majority of them, generalizing here, are lazy and love to breed kids like they were runnning out of fashion, and love to claim this that and the other about stating that "its my right to these benfits" Where's the morals and rewards for those who are hard working and are trying to make it , well for the goverment if you want a particular lifstyle, which hopefully a degree can give, you have to pay for it, but what about those who come from less wealthy backgrounds where is the goverment's rewards at? The rewards are Lack of decent affordable housing, a NHS to feel ashamed about, public transportation which is a joke, the list just go's on and on, etc...
A ll these scroungers do is bring the economy down, why do the govt. love these people so much!? Can't they see they are damaging the country? Why don't they want to help the working class who try to come out of it!!
The whole system is a joke, thank God for Privatization, because at this rate by the time i reach old, there will be nothing left of social security, if the govt.continue to give these people the , as i aint one to be shopping at no nettos.
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babygirl44
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 13:00 |
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Ms Price wrote: Hey
I also read this article in the Express i think it was today.
I sincerley hope you found this paper on the train (even then I still wouldn't read it) and did not pay money for it because its an outrageous piece of right-wing propaganda and most of their cover stories would not look out of place on the BNP website.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 15:17 |
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@LOVEDADDY,INCOGNITO,PEACEMAKER,BABYGIRL AND MS PRICE
It's pretty clear the motivation for starting the thread is bias against those with large families. That seems to be the motivation of some other posters, as well.
This family should be provided with adequate housing, and if the rich need to be taxed more to pay for that, so be it have you ever asked your self on why there isnt much media farce on how the rich avoid to pay taxes? ...but instead of the press always picking on poor people on benefits.
Its clearly evident that some posters on this thread have a less admirable position, one of bigotry leavened with deceit.They want social benefit but not for "those people". They compound it by lacking the intellectual integrity to admit they think an able bodied adult not working is ok and should be paid by the state, but those producing lots of children are different from them, and therefore unworthy! how sad!
Is there anyone who hasn't benefitted themselves directly from social welfare or who doesn't know anyone who has? Who hasn't had a brief spell of unemployment in the family? Or a low paid job supplement? Or rent relief? dont you have a relative who is trying to make ends meet?From your posts you sound like you probably even hate Asylum seekers and so on
Note, it is not simply the view that they should care for a certain number of children and then cut them off. What if someone with a large family is providing for that family himself, but then loses his job or becomes injured? It is government policy that no council houses large enough to accomodate such a family are built.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 15:31 |
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babygirl44 wrote: COLTRANE wrote: whats wrong with that?
how come you dont complain about the Royals having big houses and no one lives in them?
I don't complain about the royal family because although I'm not their biggest fan I recognise that they generate a lot of money for the UK from tourism. The tourists sure aren't coming for our warm weather and beaches! The first place any American or Japanese tourist goes to when they get off the plane at Heathrow is Buckingham Palace or the Tower of London so you cannot compare these 2 sets of people. The Royals are just puppet show to draw in rich tourists.
Did you know that Subsidising Prince Andrew's golf trips to the tune of a £1/2 mill per year
Did you know that one 13 day trip for Charles which cost £300,000
Does Charles really need 60 staff?
Do you know how many African lives perish becase the British Royal family get farm subsidies?
since these people have 100's of millions of private money of their own but are quite happy to bill you for everything they possibly can
and on your point about TOURISTS is baseless and weak,Do Tourists visit the Palace of Versailles because the French have a royal family or St Petersburg because Russia has a Royal family?
Hell America doesnt have a Royal Family and they still get tourists queeing to go there
S
o please spare me those Royals Been done already since they cost us more than they generate, so no it doesn't make financial sense
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 15:32 |
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lovedaddy
The Government manged to waste £300,000 on renaming the DTI for a week and spent millions on chinook helocopetrs which can't fly because the radar won't fit
I think that sums it up
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 16:14 |
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@ Coltrane.
There really is no need to be rude to those whose views differ from yours. I believe the man is reckless but you obviously don't and think that the man should be able to continue having countless children with young girls and get unlimited benefits for doing so. We think differently but I will respect the fact that you don't agree with me when I say the man is wrong.
I was brought up to understand the value of education, hard-work and know the value of money and what this man is doing goes against my upbringing, I have a right to disapprove.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 17:31 |
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| where is the rudeness?
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LadyDay
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 17:54 |
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i see and understand your point Coltrane
the royals eat up so much pblic funds. people did complain and the royals now generate some income but they have no yucky council tax as they are tax exempt. they are given a government allowance which im sure it was said the whole of the uk pay like 6p each to keep them living lovely
im not against big families. i saw on a discovery health a family having their 14th child but they had jobs
this guy has no job or sustainable income to maintain these kids. he doesnt need a house for when they all come by. just enough space for those who live there. bunk beds?
just remember allenton derby is the same area where those 3 teenagers had babies few months apart and the youngest was about 13.
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 18:06 |
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Lady day
what i am against is when media play uo to pple's fear especially the ones who cant be bothered to read between the lines...just like power of nightmares in reverse
no one asks whn why big companies avoid so much taxes
the problem is not this father or children but the problem lies inside the DWP and no one wants to talk about that
and thats a shame
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 18:11 |
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Coltrane: i have some sympathy with your view..however I have to say if a MAN, decides he wants MORE children, then surely the primary consideration must be CAN I Afford more Children and DO I have enough space to house MORE children... It appears to me that this man has NOT thought about these two points and NOW expects the STATE ie US to accomodate his choice.. Sorry but that is reckless and totally unfair...
Why should I subsidise his CHOICES...I have my children and I've never begged the STATE to support them....so what gets me about people like this..is not that they do this..but that they then EXPECT and DEMAND that the state puts right HIS mistakes..like we OWE him a living thats the bit that hacks me off...
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 18:20 |
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so what are you suggesting? The govty sterilise him?
how do you feel paying your taxes to accomodate prince Andrew's golf habit?
my problem is no one is ready to agree that the problem lies within the system and not this man who have decided to live with him
I bet you know one or two pple that have 3 or kids living with the kids mothers would you suggest they should be sterilised as well?
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 18:34 |
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Coltrane: its not about imposing laws onto people its about reminding people about personal responsibility....and Fars as I'm concerned this man has notr exercised any personal responsibility to the welfare of his children... and what is worse he has the cheek to complain to others about HIS mistakes..
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 19:03 |
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| I'm going to fully join Coltranes's side here for the simple reason that not so long ago the same paper was complaining about british people not having enough children.
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 19:16 |
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im going to agree with Coltrane aswell, just becaues they've got a worthless dad it doesnt mean the children should suffer.
i think the welfare of the kids should come before teaching the man a lesson about his responsibilities and the consequences of his actions. can you imagine how these kids live?!
also, plenty of men out there have 14 kids (and sometimes more) but live alone and are too busy running around with women to bother remembering their kids names never mind trying to get them a decent home(even if it is from 'scrounging')
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 19:50 |
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| Thats fair enough now we have a balanced debate...so maybe someone can answer this question then..is it right that this man having behaved recklessly can then make DEMANDS on the STATE a if it was the STATE that gave him the fourteen children..is that reasonable?
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 19:58 |
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he shouldnt have to demand anything. if the state welfare system is in place to help the needy, they should realise that all those children in a 3bed home isn't good - they are in desperate need of a bigger place by the looks of it. no child deserves to be living like sardines in a can.
their dad should have probly made sure he had the space before making that many kids but he didnt, and thats why the state is there, to help out when those who cant do better for themselves are in a situation they cant get out of. like these kids are.
why does the dad need to demand a bigger home? its obvious to me that they need one. even if they give him a 5 or 6 bed with two living rooms that should be better than what they got now.
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Saida.M
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 20:06 |
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| As Coltrane more or less is saying: the State ALLOWS him to demand. For his kids sake I hope he gets what he wants.
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 20:11 |
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| Bubz: Thanks that was a good response....and whilst i totally accept your point, my view is this...there is a prevailing problem in this country. The problem as i see is this, there is a lot of people have the 'world owes me living' attitude.....regardless of how little I have done to either derserve it or help myself...  So in this case yes the children derserve more space BUT come on shouldn't that have been the FIRST consideration of the FATHER before he put his dick in the mother...not the afterthought it appears to be..
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 20:13 |
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Coltrane...I think this is one of the biggest problems with the system we live under, the shrinking of families. The land that we should have to populate the world has been used to create concrete jungles to the degree they now say the planet is overpopulated. Sad.
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Saida.M
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 20:15 |
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| You'd NEVER get EVERYONE to think sensibily so ...
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 21:59 |
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One of these women has another baby on the way, so that would be five, soon six, under school age. The three over school age would need care after school too if all three adults were working. The number of children under five is, actually, higher than a child-minder would be allowed to have in her home (child-minders are allowed to look after up to three children under five, including their own.)
but in all fairness I doubt that they could earn enough to afford nursery care for all those children even if they were working full-time. A woman I know, a research chemist, with triplets under school age, five years ago was paying £2000 a month for child care, and taking home £2500 a month in a fairly high-flying job - they managed because her husband worked full time in a well-paid job. This family does not sound like a family with PhDs to enable them to get highly-paid jobs and when i say the probl is with DWP i did not mean that the state allows him to demand but its the states responsibility to do so and suprise me here is some of you are parents and since you have well paid jobs you tend to look down on others which is quite sad really.
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 22:29 |
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A bit late for the big debate, but I'm joining the Coltrane camp also, for the simple reason that this is an example of "British eccentricism". I bet this guy doesn't have to worry about mortages, necter points, airmiles, office politics, Macjobs, credit card balance transfers, "customer loyalty reward schemes" ( how stupid are they!) All the "normal" stuff that makes life such a crap experience! Yes I pay tax, do I care that some of it goes on people like him and his family? no.
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bubz
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 22:32 |
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COLTRANE wrote: A woman I know, a research chemist, with triplets under school age, five years ago was paying £2000 a month for child care, and taking home £2500 a month in a fairly high-flying job - they managed because her husband worked full time in a well-paid job.
thats good money she was earning yes. but why would she pay £2000 to leave her 3 small children in the care of someone else...and only take home £500? Ok she may not be working just for the money, if her husband can support the family, but that even makes it kinda worse in my view. I mean is it really worth paying out all that money just so someone else can be a mother to your kids in the day when you are out working out your guts for some corporation??
seems tragic that the joy of bringing up triplets is outweighed by working outside the home just to bring home £500 that your family don't even need.
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Geoff
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Posted: Wednesday March 15th, 2006 23:59 |
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I was amused when I read this story......they have a story like this periodically just to keep the topic "on the boil".
The man should get everything he is due by the system, but while saying that the system is at fault.
The man didn't arrive at this point by accident, he knew he could behave in a cavalier manner and reap the rewards. He has been educated over time, and experience that if you ask the right questions, and have the requisite deficiencies the "authorities" throw benifits at you, afraid to appear moralistically judgemental....for the sake of the kids.When a teenage mother goes to the council she "knows" she has a "right" to be housed away from the possible parental intrusions into the upbringing of her child.
It is not the system that is wrong, it is the expectation, and reliance, and missuse of the system.The way it works is that some people are better off claiming benifit than working.Not everyone can be high income earners, and when you have that second or third child in a low income job, the benifits that can accrue make it worthwhile staying at home.Dental care, Prescriptions, Baby Milk, Rate Rebates, Rent rebates etc. and once you pass a threshold, as in this case, you would be foolish to get up for work everyday at 6.00 am to do a low pay job.
The social security system has taken about 50 odd years to arrive at this point, a slow education of the people to the wrinkles in the System .......it may take just as long...to sort it out again.
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Posted: Thursday March 16th, 2006 07:47 |
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As the starter of this thread, the clear point that I sought to raise is that there are people out there that abdicate all sembelence of personal responsibility, and expect the State to pick up the tab.
Although the family in the article represent an extreme, they do exemplify those who feel that the world owes them a living without they themselves playing, and often paying their own part.
Go over my old posts: I'm not against benefits per se. For those in a serious situation, they should be there to suppport them through a period of illness or an inibility to work. For those who can work, benefits should be seen as a temporary measure to help you through a rough patch in your life; a parchute if you will.
What I object to are people who aspirations are so low, that they see benefits as a lifestyle choice; refuse to work as they think the extra £10 per week really isn't worth their while. To me that's pure fecklessness and a poor example to future generations. Each generation of a family should seek to build on the foundations of the previous one, so a culture of benefit dependancy will only perpetuate a dire situation.
As for hating large families - palpable nonsense. I'm from your archtypal large Jamaican family. My Father was one of thirteen children, and my Mother is one of eleven. The key difference is that economic realities and birth control in 1940's and 50s Jamaica wasn't as easily available as it is in 21st Century Britain. Having so many children, and not being in a position to financially support them is inexcusable, irresponsible and just plain selfish, to your family and society as a whole.
My reality is this: I look at my current surroundings and say to my wife, "can we afford to have more children" I look at our various income streams and outgoings and the answer might be "no" due to financial space limitations. That's being responible to your nearest and dearest first and formost.
The gentlemen in the article, and people of his ilk, don't ask these questions; they simply breed and breed and breed, without asking, can we afford these children at this time. All sense of personal responsibility is out the window, and an expectation that the State, funded by those of us paying income tax and National Insurance, will pick up the tab.
Citing the Royals' financial inproprioty, although high-profile, is nonsense, as the figure involved are relatively insignificant compare to the systematic abuses that are taking place in the benefits system. The Royals cost millions (too much), but Billions of pounds are lost each year by people simply abdicating responsibility for their actions.
So I'll ask the question again: do you think it's acceptable for people to have more children than they can financially afford? At which point does personal responsibility start, and at which point does it stop?
Last edited on Thursday March 16th, 2006 08:58 by Lovedaddy
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babygirl44
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Posted: Thursday March 16th, 2006 10:12 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Bubz: Thanks that was a good response....and whilst i totally accept your point, my view is this...there is a prevailing problem in this country. The problem as i see is this, there is a lot of people have the 'world owes me living' attitude.....regardless of how little I have done to either derserve it or help myself... So in this case yes the children derserve more space BUT come on shouldn't that have been the FIRST consideration of the FATHER before he put his dick in the mother...not the afterthought it appears to be..
Good post. There are way too many people who believe that the world owe's them something. I do feel bad for the kids but the fact remains that once the man gets a bigger house, he will keep having more children until the next one fills up. His girlfriend is only 22 and he can produce kids till the day he dies. He doesn't care about the them.
Furthermore to the person who said that the government was crying out for more kids. You do realise that its the middle-class who are more likely to have educated kids that will help our economy and pay for future pensions that the government wants, not chav children whose only aspiration is to follow in their father's footsteps and claim benefits. Its not just kids they want. its the right type of kids. This may sound harsh but its true.
The country is in the highest level of debt it has ever been in and its only going to get worse, the gravy train's going to come to a grinding halt and a lot of people are in for a rude awakening.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Thursday March 16th, 2006 10:44 |
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I'm in abit of a rush now but will respond to your points as at my earliest
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Saida.M
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Posted: Thursday March 16th, 2006 10:46 |
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Lovedaddy wrote:
So I'll ask the question again: do you think it's acceptable for people to have more children than they can financially afford? At which point does personal responsibility start, and at which point does it stop?
Lovedaddy whether it's acceptable or not is neither here nor there.
There'd always be irresponsible people.
Being financially able to have kids does not automatically mean you are responsible.
T he benefit system merely stave off SOME children from starvation or worse being open to exploitation.
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Posted: Thursday March 16th, 2006 15:27 |
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"So I'll ask the question again: do you think it's acceptable for people to have more children than they can financially afford? At which point does personal responsibility start, and at which point does it stop?"
The UK has one of the highest divorce rates in Europe, divorce is one of the ways people start not being able to "financially afford" children, what should happen in cases such as this should parents resort to the extremities of Euripides’s Medea and murder the little darlings? Also would you accept a Chinese style state quota on the number of children you can have? This times the state being able to access your assets and decide to give you a license or not?
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