| Author | |
|---|
Peacemaker
Villager
| Joined: | Saturday May 15th, 2004 |
| Location: | ><_>< |
| Posts: | 3892 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |    |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 12:30 |
|
Campus storm over 'racist' don
Leeds University refuses to sack a lecturer accused of a slur against black people, citing his right to free speech
Anushka Asthana and Jessica Salter
Sunday March 5, 2006
The Observer
Students and lecturers are calling for a Leeds University don to be sacked after he said he supported a theory that black people were inferior to whites.
In a row that has reignited the debate on the limits of freedom of speech, Frank Ellis, a lecturer in Russian and Slavonic studies, sparked anger after stating, in an interview with the university's student newspaper, that he was an 'unrepentant Powellite' who thought that the BNP was 'a bit too socialist' for his liking.
Ellis said he supported right-wing ideas such as the Bell Curve theory, which held that white people were more intelligent than black people. '[It] has demonstrated to me beyond any reasonable doubt there is a persistent gap in average black and white average intelligence.' Repatriation would get his support, he added, if it was done 'humanely'.
Now students are preparing to picket his lectures, protest on campus and bombard the vice-chancellor with emails calling for Ellis to be removed from his post.
Hanif Leylabi, a student at Leeds and a member of Unite Against Fascism, said: 'Knowing that he's a lecturer and that he holds views that black people are inferior and that women can't achieve the same as men, it's disgusting and certainly not conducive to an academic environment.'
But while the university called his views 'abhorrent to the overwhelming majority our staff and students', it said he had a right to express them. A spokeswoman said that there was no evidence his extreme theories had affected his teaching. 'The question of discrimination does not arise in student assessment. All work counting towards a degree in Russian and Slavonic studies is double-marked. Ellis has a right to his personal opinions, but he does not have the right to treat students or colleagues in a prejudicial or discriminatory manner. We have no evidence that this has happened, but we will look carefully at any such evidence if it is presented to us.'
Greg Mulholland, MP for Leeds North West, whose constituency contains 20,000 students, said the university had a duty to check whether his employment was sustainable, given the impact his words would have on racial relations. Ellis's 'extraordinary views', he said, were 'narrow-minded, intellectually bankrupt and morally reprehensible nonsense'.
The angry reaction has not deterred Ellis, who wrote a follow-up article in the Leeds Student,in which he argued: 'Multiculturalism is doomed to failure - and is failing - because it is based on the lie that all people, races and cultures are equal; that no one race or culture is better (superior) than any other.' Such lies were propagated by the 'Guardian-reading classes', he said. He also made insulting remarks about Africans, citing research that claimed the average IQ on that continent was 70. He said: 'In the West, an individual with an IQ of 70 would be regarded as being very close [to], or within the range of, mental retardation.'
Mulholland dismissed his assertions: 'Not to acknowledge that much of the problems experienced by African nations are down to exploitation by Western nations over the years and centuries is simply to ignore the reality of history.'
Psychologists have said that IQ has been discredited as a reliable measure of intelligence. Robert McHenry, chairman of the psychology consultancy OPP, said: 'It was developed by white researchers and tested on white populations, so is not suitable for measuring other cultures.' He said the Bell Curve theory was out of date and showed lower achievements among the black population because they were economically worse off.
'There is no scientific data that supports the idea that the difference between blacks and whites is genetic.'
Kat Fletcher, president of the National Union of Students, said that she supported academic freedom, but Ellis's beliefs were 'academic nonsense'. She called for the university to launch an investigation into his teaching.
____________________
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
stick-upKid
Villager
| Joined: | Wednesday August 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 1328 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 12:35 |
|
Snap. I've just read this and I was gonna post it as well.
I guess the US culture of racist academics and professors is coming to britain. I wondered how long it would take for something like this to blowup.
____________________
They want you to Forget History.
They want you to Forgive Injustice.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
Kunjufu
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 13:17 |
|
Ok lets set aside the racist element of this argument..the two bits that leap out at me is this....
1. should he be allowed to teach this theory?
2. Is this theory credible?
____________________
African heart, African mind
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
LadyDay
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Thursday October 2nd, 2003 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 6156 |
| Photo: | [Download] |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 13:24 |
|
where is the counter arguments
all people need to do si spoint put the fact that most inventions wwere created by blackpeople and whites took creds for it.
but his theory is not credible at all
____________________
I am too blessed to be stressed and too anointed to be disappointed!
Think outside of the box...Think in spirit
Act as if it were impossible to fail!!!
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
Kibibi
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Wednesday May 18th, 2005 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 3392 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 13:28 |
|
stick-upKid wrote: Snap. I've just read this and I was gonna post it as well.
I guess the US culture of racist academics and professors is coming to britain. I wondered how long it would take for something like this to blowup.
It has always been here, just more underground-more or less reflecting in grades given.
No I do not think he should be allowed to teach this theory, when the theory isn't credible. But I'm sure they teach many other theories which can also be arguedas not credible. So on what grounds would they decide to not allow him to teach, if racism is taken out of the equation? 
Last edited on Sunday March 5th, 2006 13:32 by Kibibi
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
Kunjufu
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 13:48 |
|
The four key points taken from this argument appears to me to be this...
Should he teach his theory in University....in my view the answer has to be YES...but as a theory and NOT as a science fact.... Personally I'd relish the opportunity to take this muppet on.....and to be honest we should not be affraid to let him speak his mind on this subject...in fact for me the more the merrier...
He also claims that Europeans are more intelligent that Black folks and they have an higher IQ..actually i agree with both his point they do have an higher IQ than us and they more intelligent than us... However what he forgot to add, which is pointed out graphically at the end of the article..is that the IQ system and the Wasii scale that measures it are primarily based on EUROPEAN knowledge not AFRICAN knowlwedge ..there already research completed by Williams (1981) that proves this point...he contrived the alternative to the European IQ system called the Black Intelligence test, of Cultural Homogeneity..this is a black cultural specific test it found that Europeans who took thisw test score lower (amazingly) than Africans... So the Point Ellis is making omits this significant point...what a surprise..
He also says that Multiculturalism won't work..actually i agree with him absolutrely..he says it gives the impression that we are all 'equal' i agree with him when he says we're not..THATS true we only have the illussion of being equal... Obvious we all know that is simply not true..what we wouldn't agree on is his conclusion..but I agree with his premise..
He then states that Africans have a lower IQ..and that we average about 70 on the Wascii scale...for all those who don't know 70..is said to be the break even point that denotes a learning disability....now the first question that must be asked..is how could he possibly know the avaerage iq of every african on this planet.... he second point is we all know that if given a level playing field..its an historical fact we kick their arses whatever the areana....so again he is talking bollox..they should let him talk..because any counter to this buillsh*t we tear him apart hell my cat could destroy that theory in two seconds..let the man talk I say...
However where i would draw the line with him, is allowing him to mark dissertations and essays, no way should he be let loose on the life chances of African students..
____________________
African heart, African mind
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
Miss Nellia
Villager
| Joined: | Saturday August 13th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1266 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 13:58 |
|
Ok... First of all the man is a lecturer of Russian and Slovonic studies, which means that he is below par of the average intelligence of a lecturer. ANYONE can get in to Oxford university for example if they wanted to study Russian, an poor Russian can teach that language cause not many only the intellectually challenge would study this subject. So let's remember that we are dealing with a pale ape here.
Secondly...why do we allow ourselves to get angered by this sort of behaviour from the pale ones...... The fact that he believes this, only backs my point that "the thing" is intellectually challenged. I personally teach a group of Nigerian teens who WIPE the floors with their other peers of other races including Asians, Whites and Orientals when it comes to academics, social behaviour, purposeful discussion, they are A* students. They may not know British history, but they don't care about it. So in my eyes that knocks the pale ones statement that the average IQ of Africans on the continent is 70.
Thirdly...I have been saying for along time that the UK is on average 10years behind the US. It is now becoming more acceptable for these pale people to make such statements and get away with it.
Soon from now we will have British police ON FILM beating the living daylights out of a black man and then walk free with a tap on the wrists.
This man will probably keep his job...they have already found a way skate around the issue in order to make it acceptable. Had the statement been about Jews, he would have been dragged out of Leeds Uni but his short and curlies LONG TIME!!!!!!!! Like our beloved mayor….
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
stick-upKid
Villager
| Joined: | Wednesday August 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 1328 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 14:18 |
|
@Kunjufu
Have you lost your mind? You seriously believe that he should be allowed to teach this theory of black inferiority?
Can you imagine being the token african in his lectures and how that would make you feel??
If its ok to teach black inferiority theories then why aren't africans allowed to teach --and be taught-- african superiority theories. It has to be balanced. To my knowledge there is nobody allowed into this country that could teach anything to rival this man. All those peeps have been and will continue to be banned from entering the UK.
And you still think he should be allowed to preach this?
____________________
They want you to Forget History.
They want you to Forgive Injustice.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
Kunjufu
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 14:25 |
|
stick-upKid wrote: @Kunjufu
Have you lost your mind? You seriously believe that he should be allowed to teach this theory of black inferiority?
Can you imagine being the token african in his lectures and how that would make you feel??
If its ok to teach black inferiority theories then why aren't africans allowed to teach --and be taught-- african superiority theories. It has to be balanced. To my knowledge there is nobody allowed into this country that could teach anything to rival this man. All those peeps have been and will continue to be banned from entering the UK.
And you still think he should be allowed to preach this?
Hear me now Stick up...I never said preech it unopposed..I said he ought to be allowed discuss his THEORY..as just that a THEORY...I don't think we ought to hide from such people or shrink from the challenge of having this rubbish put out in the open...like i said I'd relish challenging his THOEORY because like i said its a pile of crap...
____________________
African heart, African mind
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
stick-upKid
Villager
| Joined: | Wednesday August 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 1328 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 14:36 |
|
Kunjufu wrote: stick-upKid wrote: @Kunjufu
Have you lost your mind? You seriously believe that he should be allowed to teach this theory of black inferiority?
Can you imagine being the token african in his lectures and how that would make you feel??
If its ok to teach black inferiority theories then why aren't africans allowed to teach --and be taught-- african superiority theories. It has to be balanced. To my knowledge there is nobody allowed into this country that could teach anything to rival this man. All those peeps have been and will continue to be banned from entering the UK.
And you still think he should be allowed to preach this?
Hear me now Stick up...I never said preech it unopposed..I said he ought to be allowed discuss his THEORY..as just that a THEORY...I don't think we ought to hide from such people or shrink from the challenge of having this rubbish put out in the open...like i said I'd relish challenging his THOEORY because like i said its a pile of crap...
-------
My point is that this 'discussion' would be unbalanced from the start. On one side you would have a qualified academic, who has spent his whole life learning and reading, and on the other side you have a bunch of unqualified opinions from 'lay-men'.
Now you tell me, whose opinion would be held higher? The academic's or a bunch of random unknown people's.
If there were people of equal stature to counter his theories then fair enough. But there aren't. Not in this country anyways.
____________________
They want you to Forget History.
They want you to Forgive Injustice.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
Kunjufu
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 14:44 |
|
stick-upKid wrote:
My point is that this 'discussion' would be unbalanced from the start. On one side you would have a qualified academic, who has spent his whole life learning and reading, and on the other side you have a bunch of unqualified opinions from 'lay-men'.
Now you tell me, whose opinion would be held higher? The academic's or a bunch of random unknown people's.
If there were people of equal stature to counter his theories then fair enough. But there aren't. Not in this country anyways.
Stick up: i hear you....but really is that a good reason to run from this type of debate...even if I accepted your line that we (africans) do not have Academics in this country to counter such crap...That for me still wouldn't be a reason to stop him... Look the fact is we are in the UK..it is already unfair..that's a fact...banning arseholes like him doesn't make this go away...
All that is happening is that Europeans are more discreet or underhand with thier vibes..but its still there.... In my view we should not belittle our ability to argue against such idiots and we should run from them either....their academic qualification isn't aguarantee of anything other than they got through some course...we are just as caperble and should not be affraid to challenge so called academics..
____________________
African heart, African mind
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
huzzah1
Villager
| Joined: | Monday September 13th, 2004 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 819 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 16:23 |
|
So, we are inferior to whites? Now what is he and his kind going to do about it?
I'm getting a bit annoyed with these people spouting nonsense and then doing nothing about it. If we're so inferior why dont they just bring back slavery and get it over with.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 5th, 2006 22:34 |
|
| Free speech but should Leeds University want someone racist to represent them? The uni should take a stance on racism.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
The Mighty Mos Def
Villager
| Joined: | Tuesday April 19th, 2005 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 641 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Monday March 6th, 2006 09:26 |
|
Kunjufu wrote: Ok lets set aside the racist element of this argument..the two bits that leap out at me is this....
1. should he be allowed to teach this theory?
2. Is this theory credible?
Leeds is a publicly(state) funded university, correct? Africans/Blacks in Britain pay taxes, correct? If the questions' that I posed are correct: I see no way to justify the teaching of that theory without, at the very least, strong opposition from the powers that be at Leeds. That's where I run into a major problem; not with the professor's individual beliefs per se; rather, with the 'indirect' support he has received from the school's administration. Couple that with Britain's refusal to allow certain African/Black academics into the country, for fear of "racial incitement," and I can't reconcile the feeling that I have that supporting this scoundrel's right to free speech, especially on the basis of academic freedom, would be to support a double standard; a double standard that isn't in my peoples best interest.
While one could argue that it's academically repressive to disallow the teaching of any type of theory; one could also argue that the theory put forth by this scoundrel is limited in its scope. This ties into your second question, "intelligence" is nothing more than theory itself; simply opinion. Are the East Asians whom outperform whites regularly in the classroom and on standardized tests in the U.S. intellectually superior to whites? If we were to use this professor's beliefs, and since the study originated in the U.S. I believe it's apropos here, we would have to conclude: yes, they are intellectually superior to whites. Why didn't the professor expand upon that point more thoroughly? Did he even bring it up? Simply put: no, because it didn't serve his purpose, which wasn't to educate or introduce interesting idea; rather, it was to, once again, exalt his own people at the expense of our people. Therein lies his/their rub, whites in the U.S. have noticed that they are outperformed by East Asians as well, and they respond to their lagging scores in relation to East Asians with: "intellect is measured with more than school; it's measured in 'our' appreciation of the fine arts; 'our' critical thinking ability; 'our' intellectual curiosity outside of the classroom; 'our' technological discovery, etc.." When the results don't support their ideas: they change the rules, which we all know they're prone to do; but my question is: why should we let them? Under the guise of intellectual growth through academic freedom? While that may be noble, is it pragmatic for African/Black people to do so?
____________________
'I believe the time came, that your mind changed; do you understand? Life is like a chess move: you need to make your next move your best move.' T.I.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
AmeriJamCan
Villager
| Joined: | Tuesday March 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 531 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Monday March 6th, 2006 12:56 |
|
I wonder if he had said something about Jews, would the University have had the same response. It seems that if you say anything that can be twisted as anti-semitic, you can literally go to jail (ask Mr. Irving, who is facing time in Austrian jails for downplaying the Holocaust).
Blacks should protest mightily against allowing anyone to defame them as a group, including this professor. The university should be not use "freedom of speech" to allow racist ideology to be taught there. I can understand that the BNP has the right to make racist comments on the streets, but a University can fire professors for making such comments.
Why do people still feel open to attack Blacks, but not Jews or other groups?
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
MarcusGarveyLives
Villager
| Joined: | Tuesday April 6th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3588 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 12th, 2006 19:39 |
|
Dr Tony Sewell, Senior Lecturer in Education, Leeds University:
No Comment
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
nsogbu1562
Villager
| Joined: | Friday August 13th, 2004 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 155 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 12th, 2006 20:02 |
|
| They're talking about this issue on 'bbc london' radio right now.
____________________
"Better than the cannon, it (colonialism) makes conquest permament. The cannon compels the body, the school bewitches the soul"... Cheikh Hamidou Kane.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
Kunjufu
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 12th, 2006 20:14 |
|
| Thanks i'm listening in now...
____________________
African heart, African mind
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
Kunjufu
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 12th, 2006 21:08 |
|
| Interesting Radio programme..intetresting more for the views or lack of it by the presenters....
____________________
African heart, African mind
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
Johnee
Excluded
| Joined: | Sunday July 31st, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 18 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 12th, 2006 21:30 |
|
Stick=up Kid,
Are you serious about your Avatar and this thread, don't you realise that you are playing into their hands.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
Kunjufu
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 12th, 2006 21:33 |
|
| Johnee: the pic on Stick up's Avatar comes from a very good film called City of god....if anything its anti gun not pro gun...
____________________
African heart, African mind
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
stick-upKid
Villager
| Joined: | Wednesday August 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 1328 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Monday March 13th, 2006 08:55 |
|
Johnee wrote: Stick=up Kid,
Are you serious about your Avatar and this thread, don't you realise that you are playing into their hands.
-----
My avatar is here to challenge people's minds- so is my screen name. They are both thought provoking.
____________________
They want you to Forget History.
They want you to Forgive Injustice.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
MarcusGarveyLives
Villager
| Joined: | Tuesday April 6th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3588 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Monday March 13th, 2006 18:21 |
|
Dr Tony Sewell, Senior Lecturer in Education, Leeds University:
Still No Comment
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
AmeriJamCan
Villager
| Joined: | Tuesday March 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 531 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Monday March 13th, 2006 18:44 |
|
Are there many Black students at the university in question? Enough who have clout and can shut down the professor's classes?
And yes, MarcusGarveySpeaks, you're right. Any self-respecting Black professor should be shouting from the rooftops about the situation, but I guess some are afraid of the repercussions on their own tenureships. Once some of us reach the house, we're afraid of being kicked back out to join the field negroes. You know how it goes.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
MarcusGarveyLives
Villager
| Joined: | Tuesday April 6th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3588 |
|
|
