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makiz63
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Posted: Sunday January 30th, 2005 15:34 |
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| I am a Black African guy aged 33 currently resident in UK, in Kent South East of London. I have been trying to look for an IT Job in Kent and London but have had no luck. I have 7 years experience as a Systems Administrator specialising in Globus, Solaris and Unix. I only have a years experience in UK as a systems support officer. Unfortunately I do not have an scripting languages like Perl and Shell. I have been called to attend a few interviews but they do not materialise at all. I have tried applying directly to companies as well as to agencies but nothing comes up. I am really confused now I keep encouraging myself to keep trying but this is really bringing me down now its been 5 months now. I do check vacancies on the internet and in newspapers as well on a daily basis. I am thinking of doing MCSA and C+ but the courses are so expensive, what I need now is just any IT job. I also tried looking for companies that can train you and contract you over a certain period of time, but I cant find them. Do you have any suggestions or ideas. Thank You
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Blu Oshun
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Posted: Sunday January 30th, 2005 17:43 |
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@Makiz63, i don't really know anything about IT Employement, but all i can tell you is to just keep at it and don't let the fact that you haven't got anything so far get you down. its really hard out there. nobody is having any easytime of it. the climate out there is such that you've got graduates who are in jobs that they could have got as a 16 yr old school leavers. i should know! i'm in a cack Admin job in the home office where in the year that i've been there i've learnt absolutely nothing, if i have learn't anything its not anything that i couldn't have acquired over a week! i've had a demented manager, whose sole aim was to prevent me and a fellow colleague from doing anything..., love the list goes on! about five of my frineds are trying to get out of the first job they got after graduating into something that will hopefully lead into a career. there's a hell of alot of competition out there, and it would seem not enough jobs to go round for an increasingly educated workforce hence you've got employers thoroughly taking the piss in what they want from an employee for basic roles and even more basic salaries.
you need to just keep looking and tell yourself that something will come, it has to come. have you tried buying or loaning books from libraries on Perl and Shell? also why don't you find out whether where you're working now has training programmes even if it is in the form of a CD rom on Perl and Shell.
i've learnt more about the skills that i should have acquired by applying manically for jobs over the past year, and i've just decided that all i can do while i'm applying for new jobs is try and train myself in skills that i've seen come up in Person Specifications.
your one of many struggling to get on, i've got friends who have failed to get interviews in five months of applying. think of the interviews that you've already had as telling you that your at least doing soemthing right.
also more education isn't always the route to brighter prospects, if you can't afford to pay for courses to get e the extra experience you need think very carefully before potentially getting yourself in financial strife to get them.
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Saint
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Posted: Sunday January 30th, 2005 18:37 |
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Hi, i hear you. I was in the same positon in 2003, and trust it can be quite difficult. One good thing is if you are getting interviews, it is a positive steps, you have to tell them what they want to hear. You have to show them that you want the job. Another thing I would say is this, I live in Kent and I know it is almost impossible to get an IT job in Kent. Well you may get some thing in London, but you need to be looking for something in areas such as Surrey, berkshire, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire, oxford and southampton. That is where a lot of IT jobs are, there are some good ones in the city of London, but maybe they are tough to get. But you need to look further beyond Kent and SE London.
You need to fill the gaps if you have any on your cv. You said you have been looking for 5 months, you need to somehow show on your cv that the last time you worked was like a month ago, if you have something like 5 months, they won't like it and may not want to take you on.
I also agree that you could do so training at home, learn some Perl and Shell scripting. That will help you.
What sites do you use for job search? jobserve, reeds.co.uk, it jobboard are very good. You said you have seven years experience, I can't tell you to go for junior positions, but try and look for something where they urgently need someone, also try and apply for jobs where they looking for 3 or 4 candidates. You have more chances of securing a place. I know it is hard, I have had that experience of what you going through before, it is not easy but you need to keep trying. If you keep trying , you will eventually get something.
Good luck
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Mafdet
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Posted: Sunday January 30th, 2005 18:43 |
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I agree your doing something right as your getting the interviews and as stated your looking in the right places for vacancies.....have you taken a moment to think about the interview process and see if there is anyway that you can make any adjustments or improvements as to how you tackle it.
Blessed Hands by Terry Wilson
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Nick
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Posted: Sunday January 30th, 2005 18:44 |
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Sorry mate, but if we knew the answer, we would all be millionaires by now.
Only advice I can offer is to be confident in yourself, this will show in the interviews. Talk like you know what you are talking about, but don't over do it make it sound like you are a novice quoting lines from a book.
As for the scripting, just do it at home. Best way. No book or course will help you with programming/scripting. The language itself it very simple, I doubt you would have to use more than 10 commands or so for most tasks. Its just teaching yourself to be able to break a problem down into logical steps which can then be scripted. The best way would probably be to set yourself a challenge. Set up a test enviroment, then maybe write a script to add a user, change a password, Copy a batch of files overnight....etc
Personally I got my job my doing unpaid work experience at a company for a while, but I was starting off in the industry. I'm not sure if the same method would work for the sort of role that you are looking at.
Anyway good luck.
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huzzah1
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Posted: Monday January 31st, 2005 07:13 |
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Blu Oshun wrote: @Makiz63, i don't really know anything about IT Employement, but all i can tell you is to just keep at it and don't let the fact that you haven't got anything so far get you down. its really hard out there. nobody is having any easytime of it. the climate out there is such that you've got graduates who are in jobs that they could have got as a 16 yr old school leavers. i should know! i'm in a cack Admin job in the home office where in the year that i've been there i've learnt absolutely nothing, if i have learn't anything its not anything that i couldn't have acquired over a week! i've had a demented manager, whose sole aim was to prevent me and a fellow colleague from doing anything..., love the list goes on! about five of my frineds are trying to get out of the first job they got after graduating into something that will hopefully lead into a career. there's a hell of alot of competition out there, and it would seem not enough jobs to go round for an increasingly educated workforce hence you've got employers thoroughly taking the piss in what they want from an employee for basic roles and even more basic salaries.
I currently work for the HO too. I would recommend that anyone with a degree should stay away from the civil service...unless you're temping. You won't pick up anything useful to take with you to a private company. They're penny pinching, gradist and backwards thinking.
As for getting an IT job you may have to with the flow. Java programming, database management, and internet programming seem to be popular at the moment. Although these jobs may get farmed off to Asia.
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the soul machine
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Posted: Monday January 31st, 2005 09:07 |
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anything job to IT computing and all that is all tough stuff im in the same situation doing something that isnt even related to my qualification. you got comp science graduates working in sommerfield .
too much headache in this town.
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Incognito
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Posted: Monday January 31st, 2005 09:17 |
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@Makiz63
It is hard out there. IT in this country was considered the least ageist, least sexist and least racist industry - basically if you knew your stuff you got a job. This was down to the fact the Uk does not invest in it's own people, they would rather recruit from countries with ready skilled people like New Zealand, Australia and South africa. If you came with the skills your chances of employment was high.
IT has now become saturated and for the majority is nothing more than your everyday vocation - like being a car mechanic. As such many black people who were on the wagon and used their new status to point their fingers at other people now find institutions are exercising more discrimination and we all know what that means as black skinned people - though credit due for having what it took to get onto the wagon in the first place.
Tips:
Five years ago I would have said get into IT. Now I say get into it only if it's really what you want to do. You have to find a niche market or have a unique mix of skills. MCSE's come a dime a dozen so forget that. I was unemployed for nearly a year and that was with ten years experience behind me and willing to take a £15k pay cut (20k if they gave me a car as well) just to get back in. If I lost my current job I know there wouldn't be one for me to jump straight into.
As for studying the cheapest way is to buy study material from say Amazon and take the exams yourself. With so much time on your hands you'll be surprised how quick you can knock them out. Here's a jedi mind trick I use to get through the thickest of books:- no matter how mega thick the book looks, in reality it's only a five day course. So if you buy four study guides for a particular qualification, treat each manual as a five day course and you'll have read up on what you need to know and could be qualified in a month.
Remember, your current status may not be as a PAYE employee but that doesn't mean you can't be using your experience to do voluntary or paid/unpaid private work. This is where you need to be shrewd. If you get an interview tell that potential employer that you're currently doing voluntary or private work, tell them anything like you're helping a friend of a friend set up an internet cafe - anything that states you're unemployed but still using your skills.
I've always believed you get out what you put in. So far I haven't been proved wrong. sometimes the reality is what is thought to be 'trying hard' isn't actually hard enough - multiply that by at least 5 for a black man.
Good luck.
Last edited on Monday January 31st, 2005 09:18 by Incognito
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Blu Oshun
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Posted: Monday January 31st, 2005 22:11 |
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@huzzah1, you're absolutely right. as desperate as i have been to get out of where i am for the past year, i haven't looked in the civil service at all. i'll never work for the civil service for as long as i can help it again. the only reason why i have looked in the public sector is because i still really don't know what i want to do, i find that the competition is such in the private sector that you have to know what you want to do so that you can market and sell yourself towards it effectively. since i've been working in the HO, my confidence has dropped drastically, i'm just disillusioned about the whole world of work i feel. i have just found it baffling how it can be acceptible for somone one to learn so little and be prevented from developing. i started where i am with another woman who is old enough to be my mother, completely different backgrounds and we had EXACTLY the same problems. i feel that in the private sector there is no way on earth that you could spend a year in a role and gain nothing and do nothing. i've noticed that my friends who work for the HO email and surf online all day while my friends in private just don't have the time!
what i'm basically doing now is just spendign my time while workign anf looking for another job developing dkills that i reckon will be handy, just stuff that i want to be able to do. touch typing for example. also i'm gonna check out some business books and look at some of the execeutive skills i can teach myself. i've just found out that the IT department at work has a load of training programmes on cd rom that i'm gonna install on my pc at home.
it took me a year to find this out, although i've spent plenty of time telling the head of HR at work that i haven't had the opportuntiy to do anything and i'm not gaining anything.
my advice would be to just teach yourself as much as you can via books, cd roms whatever.
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Burning Spear
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Posted: Tuesday February 1st, 2005 04:00 |
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| Are you just focusing on staying in the UK? Try America or Austrialia.
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Tuesday February 1st, 2005 08:48 |
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I thought the bubble has burst in IT nowaydays.
People more likely to do things for themselves as regards IT within companies. Especially small companies.
Glad I never went into the field. I know too many skilled IT specialists doing data input for my liking.
Dont know the author situation but how about starting your own thing.
Last edited on Tuesday February 1st, 2005 08:51 by Bredder Tukoma
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Blackthought
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Posted: Tuesday February 1st, 2005 09:54 |
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mansamusa wrote: I thought the bubble has burst in IT nowaydays.
Yep the bubble did burst, but now its rising up again, it just to many people over the band IT band wagon, without knowing what they acually what they want/need to do.
I have been interested in IT since I was 14, and realise what I wanted to do, so I followed the path, and fortunatley for me I was able to get a decent job 2 months into finishing my degree, and I am still there now. But this is all partly because I had an idea of which sector I wanted to go for, which I think many people are failing on. Most people say IT, like its a job in itself, but its just a title that covers many different job from Programming to Data entry clerk.
My advice is for to look at the Industry itself, and find the sector you want to go for, then focus mainly on that, you will stand a better chance than going for anything that as IT label on it.
@makiz63:  Good luck, I really hope you get a Job soon.
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safetyblitz
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Posted: Tuesday February 8th, 2005 04:00 |
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I would say look in the states.
Also man stay flexible. I came out with an EE degree doing a lot of firmware programming in laptops, went into bankruptcy software, and now I am a DBA/System Analyst. Learn a skill and parlay it. If you need C++ I can hook you up on a disk set. You should be able to teach yourself online. Also, don't sleep on SQL or Oracle.
As long as you can talk ROI, usually you can stay employed. Managers hear money. You make them look good they usually keep you around.
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geemurdah
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Posted: Sunday February 27th, 2005 07:29 |
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I returned to Uni last year to do a computing course, not just to find a job but also due to my love of computer programming....
In the first year, a few students dropped out as they couldn't / wouldn't get to grips with the subject matter , some assumed it was a crash course in networking & they'd sail through & easily get a job.
The market is definately more competive than it used to be due to advancements in technology, easier, user friendly tools & the wide availability of cheap labour..However, there are still areas to tap into such as database programming, mobile phone technology & even computer engineering.
I'd advise anyone looking for work to update their skills & study an alternative area in order to make yourself as attractive to the market force as possible.
I'm currently doing a part time job & I'm already designing mini - programs for my company, some of which are in current use ( ain't getting paid the extra for doing it but the experience will be handy when I finish my course)
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Lala
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Posted: Tuesday March 1st, 2005 10:40 |
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I probably should have put the details here instead of the Networking forum....
Have a look -->
http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackforum/forum10/9177.html
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alt_de_lete
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 11:15 |
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the trick is to get some quals
if u have those find an entry level job (like a call centre)
that gives u some confidence and u can start applying for higher up jobs
plus u start building up a network within the industry, while working in an IT enviroment
Then use the job sites send applications
I used to send over 15 a day constantly
and was never out of work for more 4 more than a month over a 7 year period
remember computers are becoming more not less important
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lady_wid_style
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Posted: Thursday March 3rd, 2005 17:30 |
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I am an IT Recruitment Consultant, and work for a consultancy based in the Docklands, however, we are specialised and only deal with the high end market of IT. Our main areas are Peoplesoft, Java/J2EE, Documentum, Websphere, Murex, Fidessa, SAP, SAS, Hyperion, amongst other things depending.
Gimme a shout if you have these skills I might be able to help you out. That goes for anyone else here looking for an IT job.
I shall give you my contact details, but not in here.
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Saint
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Posted: Friday March 4th, 2005 19:09 |
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| lady_wid_style: Strange enough when you mentioned on the other forum that you work as a recruitment consultant and you work 8.30 -6, i was thinking of those IT recruitment staffs, funny thing is that you are one. I know that market has picked up now, do you guys employ graduate developers or you only deal with people with two years and above? Last edited on Monday March 7th, 2005 17:59 by Saint
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lady_wid_style
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 08:54 |
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Yes, well it depends. To be honest we only occasionally get requirements for "graduates" however, we more often get requirements for people with 6 months expereince, or something similar.
What is your area?
Here is our website if your intrested in knowing about us more. We all pretty friendly here and down to earth, with a mixed culture. None of that snobbyness and up ur own backside rubbish, that you can get with other rec consultancies/agencies.
http://www.ecom-consulting.com
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lady_wid_style
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Posted: Monday March 7th, 2005 15:12 |
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Errr yea, well it would help if the website wasn't being worked on!
Sorry ppl, I wasn't aware until I just had a look, it not working, due to being under construction. They are updating it.
We have 2 sites though, because we also have an office in Northern America.
Try this one, for the uk.
http://www.ecom-consulting.co.uk
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cell
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Posted: Tuesday March 8th, 2005 15:59 |
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while you are looking for a job you could at the mean time
go to http://www.rentacoder.com
you can do some programming work for people over the net
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