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cell
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Posted: Monday August 29th, 2005 16:28 |
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is it possible if you could list the books that you've used when studying computer science in university?
thanks
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Monday August 29th, 2005 17:26 |
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I'm biased.
I think the computer science people are mostly off in an abstract never-never land and don't understand hardware.
Almost all of the computers are von Neumann machines.
The best explanation of von Neumann machines I have seen since 1978 when I got into computers is in chapter 10 of THE ART OF ELECTRONICS. The curious thing is that the term "von Neumann machine" is not in the entire book. There is this artificial pseudointellectual separation between electronics and computers.
Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics by Stan Gibilisco
http://www.contractor-books.com/MG/Teach_Yself_Elec.htm
The Art of Electronics by Horowitz & Hill
http://www.artofelectronics.com/
The Art is a great book but it starts at too high a level for a beginner. I search for a book to get people off the ground floor and selected Gibilisco's book.
umbrarchist
Attachment: vonmachJ.jpg (Downloaded 143 times)
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Reel Deep Bass
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Posted: Tuesday August 30th, 2005 00:23 |
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I'd strongly recommend this for beginners to intermidiate:
How computers work
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0789730332/102-9944091-1088922?v=glance
Excellent book with explanatory pictures & sequence
diagrams
Also try the following site for info on anyting Computer (& everything else) related
http://www.howstuffworks.com
Last edited on Tuesday August 30th, 2005 00:24 by Reel Deep Bass
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Tuesday August 30th, 2005 17:39 |
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I took a look at howstuffworks.com. I think it stinks.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/computer-memory5.htm
| The opposite of RAM is serial access memory (SAM). SAM stores data as a series of memory cells that can only be accessed sequentially (like a cassette tape). If the data is not in the current location, each memory cell is checked until the needed data is found. SAM works very well for memory buffers, where the data is normally stored in the order in which it will be used (a good example is the texture buffer memory on a video card). RAM data, on the other hand, can be accessed in any order. |
This is THE FIRST I have heard or read of Serial Access Memory in my computer career. I have used 9-track tape drives and it was always referred to as Sequential Access Storage. The word serial was almost exclusively used for communications lines and methods.
Howstuffworks bombards you with a lot of words to memorize but doesn't explain anything in a comprehensible manner.
My diagram of the von Neumann machine shows the bus is actually a combination of three buses. An address bus, a data bus and a control bus. The address bus selects the device or memory location to be communicated with. The control bus determines the direction and timing of the communication. The data bus is bi-directional and moves the data from the CPU to memory or device of from memory or device to the CPU.
Where is this shown in howstuffworks?
umbrarchist
Last edited on Wednesday August 31st, 2005 05:21 by umbrarchist
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dexxtreme
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Posted: Wednesday August 31st, 2005 07:29 |
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The info that you find on about.com and howstuffworks.com is mainly just introductory materials with pretty flash animations to show the basics about how things work. The real stuff is usually found elsewhere. I can't say where because there are too many different sites and too many different areas to look into.
The book "How computers work" is just as introductory as the above websites. I have an earlier edition from a few years ago, and most of it was filled with pretty visuals representing various basic parts of general computer hardware. It will not provide you with any real insight about anything learned from a computer science degree.
Is there any particular reason you are looking for info about computer science textbooks? Most of those textbooks do not contain any information that you would need outside of the university arena. (i.e., you can't just pick up one or two books and learn any new skills.) The only exceptions would be books that could teach you about a particular programming language (such as Java or C++), but that is only about 20% of your CS textbooks. The rest of the books deal with things like data structures, software algorithms, state machines and logic, basic and advanced microprocessor design, and operating systems design.
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cell
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Posted: Wednesday August 31st, 2005 08:34 |
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i just wanted a head start as i was thinking about studying computer science in the near future, anyway thank you all for the posts they will be very useful 
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the soul machine
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Posted: Wednesday August 31st, 2005 12:51 |
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Is it worth studying computing science at uni, in my opinion i dont really think so but i aint discouraging anyone if its something you like then do it, guys who didnt even study the course where way better than me and i wasted alotta money on the course, i didnt even know where to begin when i finished the course last year, if you dont know what you wana do youll end up dropping your c.v in hmv and wat have we. competition is so fierce and the degree is so common now that its value isnt that high anymore, i got a degree in compscicne too, and the only job i got was a networkadmin job for 14 months which i learnt before i even studied the course, what youll mainly do in year one is, mathematics and basic programming etc, year 2 java , c+.and weteva field you chose, year 3 you choose your modules and pick a project you wana do etc. to say the truth if you arnt really intrested in the course and you just doing it cause others have it, then youll come out annoyed, many folks i ask ok,what you wana do with your compscience degree, and they dont know ,they say computer stuff, yes but what stuff ?, the mainway youll successed is if you do other professional course after that, and the university you go to makes a difference too, myabe the uni i went to was sh*t anyways thats why im pissed off, good look anyway.
sometimes i feel degrees are a rip off, (when its somes to courses like law or medicine,business, etc, then degrees can be beneficial) just my opinion anyway.
the book i started with was 'understanding computer science', cant remeber the author though.
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Wednesday August 31st, 2005 18:25 |
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This is one of the best sites I've seen on the net if you want to go this deep.
http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AoA/DOS/AoADosIndex.html
In my opinion there is really no such thing as computer science. There is electrical engineering, mathematics and linguistics. Everything I know of in so called COMPUTER SCIENCE fits into one of those 3 fields. Do you know of any other SCIENCE based on a technology?
You can buy the hardware for less than the cost of one year's tuition to do things at home that most computer science departments at major universities couldn't do in the early 80's. Maybe we should create the book list for a do-it-yourself Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Degree.
I bet there are plenty of hackers out there that can run rings around plenty of people with Comp Sci degrees. Most of them just got the degrees to get a GOOD JOB, they aren't interested in computers or technology.
These are more books I selected, not from any Comp Sci course.
HOW LINUX WORKS by Brian Ward
http://www.nostarch.com/frameset.php?startat=howlinuxworks
LINUX DESK REFERENCE by Scott Hawkins
http://www.informit.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0130619892&redir=1
PHP, MySQL AND APACHE by Julie C. Meloni
http://www.samspublishing.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0672327252&rl=1
POINT & CLICK LINUX! by Robin 'Roblimo' Miller
http://www.phptr.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0131488724&rl=1
The Ward and Hawkins book are both great but they are totally different kinds of books. HOW LINUX WORKS doesn't go anywhere near trying to cover most of the commands or options in linux. The Desk Reference organizes the commands by function and details the options with examples. Point and Click is actually kind of shallow but it comes with one of the most functional versions of Linux I have tried. I just recently discovered that it works with the on-board video of my new ASUS mobo but the proMepis CD that I got off the April edition of Linux Format magazine doesn't. The proMepis has mtools and some other useful stuff tho.
The PHP book can teach some programming, database and web development. All these books and 3 used computers for a network would cost a lot less than a semester of comp sci in the States.
umbrarchist
Last edited on Wednesday September 7th, 2005 05:26 by umbrarchist
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cell
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Posted: Wednesday August 31st, 2005 20:25 |
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thank you for all your help, so it seems that getting a computer science degree isn't worth it at the moment..
i was thinking of taking an IT certification such as CEH (certified ethical hacker) or maybe A+ what do you guys think of those certifications that i've mentioned
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Wednesday August 31st, 2005 21:46 |
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There is no escaping the fact that this is a degree/certification oriented society. Your resume can go straight into the garbage without something for backup.
I am planning to take the Red Hat Certified Engineer test. The test is $700+ and the course is close to $3000. I intend to just cram and take the test.
Interestingly a company I worked for in the 80s was looking to hire another tech. So a coworker and I got to decide how to test the applicants. We cam up with a simple test. Just give them a computer and the Novell software and tell them to build a server. Two White guys with their Certified Network Engineer papers couldn't do it. Ed and I just taught ourselves with the documentation and computers to play with. The relevant knowledge and the certification are two different things.
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Wednesday August 31st, 2005 21:52 |
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What the hell is a Certified Ethical Hacker?!?!?!?
Is this some wierd British nonsense?
umbra
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cell
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Posted: Wednesday August 31st, 2005 22:05 |
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http://www.eccouncil.org/CEH.htm
the link above has some information on CEH
i thought the certification was popular in america the exam itself is expensive though...
btw what do you think of the A+ certification
http://www.comptia.org/certification/a/default.aspx
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Thursday September 1st, 2005 06:00 |
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I have taken computer science courses at three colleges. I have been to courses given by IBM, Hewlett Packard, Xerox and Novell.
I mostly don't think much of school and courses.
The people I have met in electronics and computers who really know their stuff are people who are motivated to learn on thier own. And they are usually willing to trade info with other people who know their stuff.
I don't know what area or application you are interested in.
I am focused on Linux but a lot of people have a vested economic interest in Microsoft. That may be where the battleline is over the next few years.
I have no thoughts on A+ and asked two other people about CEH and they hadn't heard of it either.
umbra
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Saint
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Posted: Saturday September 3rd, 2005 13:58 |
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Degree + Certification + Experience put you ahead of the queue. From what I have noticed, there are some folks working where I am who haven't got degree and some have degrees. The major difference is people who have degrees are not too scared to explore, move out and get some other jobs or move up the heirarchy . Not saying people without degree don't want to move upward, but a lot them just don't want to learn anything too technical and they tell you they prefer to stay where they doing the same thing.
Without an IT degree, it limits your chances when you are applying for job, some always insist that you have a degree, others don't mind.
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huzzah1
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Posted: Saturday September 3rd, 2005 14:40 |
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cell wrote: is it possible if you could list the books that you've used when studying computer science in university?
thanks
Apparently there's a shortage of computer scientist so get your butt down to uni now!!!
1. To start with you will need to know some maths to at least A level standard.
2. You a will also need to know about Object Oriented Programming e.g. Java, C++. Lots of books out there
3. Information Systems / E-Business - Alter (good introductory book)
4. Books on the fundamentals of Internet ond Internet Programming
5. Databases - Database Systems - Connolly, Begg (a very good book)
6. Software Engineering
7. Books on data communication
8. Books on Algorithms, Advanced Databases, Data Compression, Logic Programming, Artificial Intelligence, Neural Networks.
All these books should see your through an entire course.
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Saturday September 3rd, 2005 17:43 |
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Like what percentage of jobs out there do anything with Artificail Intelligence or Neural Networks?
The thing about degree programs is they make you learn things you never use in the real world. I haven't done any calculus for computers in my entire career, not even trigonometry. Some multiplication and division to figure out how much data will fit on a disk or tape, how long it will take to transmit so much data at a certain baud rate but that's about it.
Lik back in the 80s the school were promoting Pascal, then they switched to Modula-2. How many studets spent hundreds of hours writing code in that stuff then in the real world they got jobs writing COBOL. I wish I had known C would be the thing back then. I would have concentrated exclusively on that.
PHP bears significant resemblances to C.
Schools are about making money off people that need to be educated. I say learn what you need to get a piece of paper from the school to wave in the employers face but learn more than the minimum with the right books and you own computer. Real performanc can count for a lot on the job. If you can out perform people with more and "better" degrees you may make some enemies but also the right friends. I have met plenty of dummies with computer science degrees.
The cool thing these days is that cheap computers are so powerful you can do interesting things at home and put up with boring crap at work for the money.
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Posted: Saturday September 3rd, 2005 20:29 |
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@umbrarchist I agree with your points. I mean I did neural Network and have yet to see a job that asked for that experience. I also agree with you on the point that UNi sometimes teach you things which are unneccessary. I mean we learn several languages whilst I was in Uni, but we never really master any, it would have been better to stick with one or two and know it very well.
Knowing what part of IT you want to specialize in also helps, if you want to be a programmer, start coding at home, if you want to be an adminstrator, stay configuring and administering users, if it is database, concentrate more on it. It is good to have a broad knowledge, but it is also good to be able to say you know one aspect very well.
The IT market has really picked up, so doing computer science or computer Engineering is still a very good choice. You will enjoy it.
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Sunday September 4th, 2005 03:06 |
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Information Systems / E-Business - Alter
http://www.pearsoned.co.uk/Bookshop/detail.asp?item=244676
Database Systems - Connolly, Begg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321210255/202-5578816-1785404
http://md5-hash-online.waraxe.us/book-review-show-52.html
These two books look like what I expect from higher education a lot of abstract theory giving the instructors lots to talk about. No - hands on, lets do something and get dirt under our fingernails - kind of stuff.
PHP, MySQL AND APACHE 2nd edition by Julie C. Meloni
It appears that there are three different versions of this book. Two first editions with different covers, and a second edition which I have. It includes a CD with PHP, MySQL and Apache for Windows, Linux and Macs. So you can set up a server run a database using the included PHP scripts.
This is a review of the version I have.
http://www.aztcs.org/reviews/2005-03/0503b-pmaallin1.shtml
http://www.micromail.ie/cgi-bin/shop.pl?categ=COMINT&expand=4669.html different version
http://www.samspublishing.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0672327252&rl=1
This is review of the FIRST edition
http://crc32-checksum.waraxe.us/itbookreviewshow-62.html
http://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=0672326205 publisher biased
Since this includes Linux version the POINT & CLICK LINUX! could provide the operating system base to build the whole network on. The Linux mags are using the acronymn LAMP.
Linux, Apache, MySGL, PHP.
Some say Perl instead of PHP.
I've messed with Perl. It's a messy language. People are calling it a Swiss Army Chainsaw. You can do a lot with it if you can get a handle on it.
umbrarchist
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huzzah1
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Posted: Tuesday September 6th, 2005 18:08 |
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umbrarchist wrote: Like what percentage of jobs out there do anything with Artificail Intelligence or Neural Networks?
Depends on what area of computing you want to study. Artificial Intelligence an Neural Networks wont be of much use to somebody who's studying Information Systems. I only mentioned these two as I'm a Computer Science student and these two areas are relatively new to computing.
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Posted: Tuesday September 6th, 2005 19:41 |
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.
http://www.alexandria.nu/ai/blog/all.asp
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Posted: Tuesday September 6th, 2005 21:43 |
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Ok just one more question if you don't mind...
do you recommend me taking an IT professional qualification before actually doing a degree or should i do a qualification after i've got my CS degree?
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Posted: Tuesday September 6th, 2005 22:04 |
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umbrarchist wrote: Like what percentage of jobs out there do anything with Artificail Intelligence or Neural Networks?
The thing about degree programs is they make you learn things you never use in the real world. I haven't done any calculus for computers in my entire career, not even trigonometry. Some multiplication and division to figure out how much data will fit on a disk or tape, how long it will take to transmit so much data at a certain baud rate but that's about it.
Yes, In other words a rat race with the universities firing the starting pistols. University is a joke, if you are studying anything other than law and medicine. If you are disciplined, you are better off reading books, joining forms, find webrings. When I was told at uni that when I am finished, the world would be my oyster. Pack of garbage If I say so. Truth is between the businesses and education authorities, they cannot make up their minds what they want from people. One minute they want experience, the next a degree, management skills. Start a business with someone, look at |Gates and the guys from yahoo as an example.
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Posted: Tuesday September 6th, 2005 23:16 |
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@cell
I'm in the US not England. I don't know what the market is like there so I think my advice is of questionable value to you. This undoubtedly reflects my personality more than anything else.
I would say get some kind of professional certificate to get in the door and get some experience. Decide as you accumulate more knowledge what to do about uni.
Personally I consider school to be largely a scam. Waste your time and money to dribble unimportant info at you. But if you refuse to go along with the scam the corps won't hire you. They want people properly conditioned to put up with the crap they dish out.
I find it curious that you haven't commented on any of the books I listed even tho you asked for books and I included links.
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Posted: Wednesday September 7th, 2005 07:35 |
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