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Black Flash
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Posted: Friday February 16th, 2007 18:16 |
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I was speaking to a friend the other day, and we stared arguing about barack obama. my friend said that he doesnt know why people keep calling him black, he aint black, he is mixed race.
he believes that barack should stop calling himself a black man and that the media should stop saying that he could become the first 'black president'. According to him obama is mixed race/biracial, therefore he cannot represent or speak for black people.
we both have contrasting views on mixed race people. My friend strongly questions their allegiance to the black race, whereas I believe that black is black and advocate the one drop rule.
i do admit that some mixed race people (especially those in britain) do not see themselves as black and despise the black blood running through their veins, but overall I do see most mixed race/biracial people as part of our race.
i just wanted to know what the members of the board think abouth mixed race people.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Friday February 16th, 2007 18:39 |
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I think people on the board are confused and inconsistent.
Mostly people demonise and hate mixed race most of the time and almost appear unanimous that mixed isn't black because of the very one-drop rule you mention... but when it comes to the idea of mixed people having their own race categorys and sites or things of their own... everybody throws hissy fits as if they're traitors and it won't be good for black folk. When mixed folk date white blacks here act shocked lol or call them traitors even. Traitors to whom?
I do not agree that biracial people are black. They are no more so than they are white and one drop rule upholds the notion that white is pure and everything else is contaminated black... I don't subscribe. Why is Mariah or people as white as her with visible blue veins even near considered "black". Have we gone blind? Also from experience people raised by white parents have a white idealogical background and thinking that is vastly at odds with most black people. To deny this is determined willful ignorance imo. We know that mixed couples don't last and we know that it's usually black men with white women vastly outnumbering the reverse so effectively it's white women bring up the majority of mixed kids alone. Kids who some argue are "black". Bollox
A biracial or mixed race person is precisely that. And that's not black. The sooner we realise this and move on the better. For them in the most part but for us too.
Last edited on Friday February 16th, 2007 18:45 by The Watcher
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Saida.M
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Posted: Friday February 16th, 2007 18:50 |
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| **THREAD MOINTORED IN CASE IT GOES OFF INTO THE I.R. TERRITORY**
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An_Advanced_Spark
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Posted: Friday February 16th, 2007 22:43 |
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I think Watcher summed it up well, while I don't really mind if a mixed race person feels THEY PERSONALLY identify with black more it gets a bit fustrating when evey tom dick and harry pushes it on them ala Tiger Woods, again the idea of accepting every thing in the Black Community when other communites are quick to turf any thing and everything, I hope I need not to mention the Jade Goody fart that pissed me off to the max...
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lilsoulful1
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Posted: Friday February 16th, 2007 23:10 |
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My parents are mixed but they have and ALWAYS identified as black strongly, almost as though i've never even realised that they are mixed. Me I just look black even with the mixture. Personally, to me Mixed race people are black and always have been. They are black. we just all come in different shades, hair and colours
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The Last African
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 03:04 |
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lilsoulful1 wrote: My parents are mixed but they have and ALWAYS identified as black strongly, almost as though i've never even realised that they are mixed. Me I just look black even with the mixture. Personally, to me Mixed race people are black and always have been. They are black. we just all come in different shades, hair and colours
I thought you said your parents weren't mixed 2 weeks ago ? I think it's about time you decide it been going back and forth some time now ....
I am so evil ...
Last edited on Saturday February 17th, 2007 03:05 by The Last African
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Gmahogany.
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 07:09 |
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My view on mixed race people is two-fold. As with most things, I don't believe there is a one size fits all approach to this. When I see a mixed race person from the UK, South AFrica, Brazil, or a few other places, I consider them mixed race and don't view them any differently than I view a white person. Don't expect anything from them or trust them(unless they show and prove). In those places, mixed race people tend to have vastly different experiences than Black people, because the systems in those places allow/encourage them to.
When I come across a mixed race person from America, I consider them to be Black and treat them as such, until they give me a reason not to,(and more often than not, they too consider themselves Black and rep that). Commonality of experience(be it chosen or forced), is a crucial element. A mixed race person in America, is SOMETIMES, more likely to have the same kinds of attitudes about whites as a collecitive(regardless of what their momma/daddy is)/be hip to racial dynamics than some full blooded Black folks from all Black countries who can sometimes be very unhip to such matters, and see race as trivial in comparison to classs/tribe/education level, ad nauseam.
.
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Black Flash
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 08:33 |
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I also admit that I am very confused most of the time about mixed race people. I dont know how i should view them.
Sometimes you get the ones that are overtly pro black (e.g miss dynamite, mario van peebles, alicia keys), those are the ones that dont call themselves mixed, but see themselves as black and they rep black. And then, you get the ones that are the complete opposite, who dont like or hang around with any blacks or biracials and they consider themselves to be white with a tan (I cant think of any in the media spotlight, but there are plenty of them around where I live)
and then you have a few that are somewhere in the middle. those are the ones that piss me off the most. Why dont they just pick a bloody side?
As a collective, mixed race people are the most confusing people on the face of the earth. (i dont mean to cause any offense to any mixed race person out there)
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Footprints
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 08:54 |
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| I have lots of mixed race friends and I have learnt that it best to approach mixed race people and any other race for that matter with an open mind, unless you get to know the person or sound them out ,you cannot have a preconceived notion about them, it is unfair and it is pure racism. Attachment: images.jpg (Downloaded 584 times)
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babygirl44
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 10:48 |
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Deciding how we identify mixed-race people will always be a problem mainly because scientifically there is no such thing as race. We are all part of the human race. White tribes invented race so that they could commit evil acts in the past to steal wealth and keep it for themselves. We are now all in a state of confusion because high level race mixing is relatively recent and doesn't really fit into the western concept of race definition. It would be easier if we were in south America and everybody was labelled according to skin colour but I don't think this is a good system at all.
I don't think mixed-race people should ever pick a side because its unfair to ask them to ignore one side (or in some cases more) of themselves in order to fit in with a particular group. It will also be hard for mixed people to ever be their own individual race because there are so many combinations and degrees of mixtures that this would be impossible to do. Unless the whole world comes to an agreement that there's no such thing as race, just billions of people from the same species where some look a bit similar than others, like cats, then we will always have a problem when it comes to mixed-race people. This of course, will never happen.
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check_check
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 15:22 |
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In my experience some mixed race people identify strongly as "mixed Race"; while some identify as Black. What troubles me is the some mixed race people who do not identify as black are in their politics pro white (which will alwys be anti-black...they cant have their cake and eat it) and are attempting to claim black history makers (mixed ppl who positively identify as black) as politicaly "theirs". Its a ridiculous tug of war and some clarity needs to privided by hig ranking mixed race ppl in the community. The Mixed community is split on this issue, and leadership should be provided. My guess is that the pro white brigade are in the minority and the heavy slap of white racism will soon have them reeling back into the black community.
Time will tell.
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impactplayer
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 18:26 |
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Gmahomny posts is on point...
"Mixed race" people are black until proven other wise in the U.S. because we already come in different shades. Trying to decipher race of parents just confuses an already confusing system, although some die hards will try. Its also beneficial for "mixed" people to identify as black cause it gives them a social support system they wouldnt get as identifing themselves as something else.
BTW mixed race is an offensive term in the U.S.
If you have questions about the allegaince of Mr. Obama I suggest you check out the church he attends...
Last edited on Saturday February 17th, 2007 20:32 by impactplayer
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 19:48 |
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Black Flash wrote: I was speaking to a friend the other day, and we stared arguing about barack obama. my friend said that he doesnt know why people keep calling him black, he aint black, he is mixed race.
he believes that barack should stop calling himself a black man and that the media should stop saying that he could become the first 'black president'. According to him obama is mixed race/biracial, therefore he cannot represent or speak for black people.
we both have contrasting views on mixed race people. My friend strongly questions their allegiance to the black race, whereas I believe that black is black and advocate the one drop rule.
i do admit that some mixed race people (especially those in britain) do not see themselves as black and despise the black blood running through their veins, but overall I do see most mixed race/biracial people as part of our race.
i just wanted to know what the members of the board think abouth mixed race people.
It is my opinion that if we look at our history of mixed race people, then we can easily learn how to deal with them. It is quite simple. They are "Black" or "African" if they want to be. By this I mean that they wholy identify with the endeavors and collectively uplift of our people. If they have the ideology of others in their mentality, then that person is a Trojan horse.
It is how many misguided Africans try to include Arabs just because at one time West Asia was resident of some of our most ancient classical Black civilizations, and so Arabs are naturally mixed people of African descent. However, these cultures were destroyed by Whites and half-breeds who infiltrated Black civilizations but still had an Indo-European mentality. When the White and Arab man first came to West Africa, many of us distrusted them. People such as the Yoruba called them "peeled men" because of their white skin. However, their were shotgun marriages through Islam that resulted in Arab-African unions. These half-breeds had allegiances to Arabs and Islam, and not to the traditional culture of their African people. This facilitated the most tragic period of African slave history still going strong for about 1,400 years. To this very day, we still must question the allegiances because we see the same thing going on today in Morocco, Mauratania, Sudan, Somalia, and Chad. Looking at ancient Asia, then there is how the majority Black people of India (the Untouchables) became the lowest cast through the infiltration of Aryans and half-breeds in the ancient civilization. There were many documented half-breed traitors in West Africa helping the British kidnap Africans. Then there are many so called African-Americans who are mixed that are called "Uncle Toms". However, in my opinion, they just chose their European side instead of their African ancestry to identify with.
It may seem bad to do it, but we must simply analyze carefully all mixed people who come to us to discern their mentality and allegiances.
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Abissinia
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 20:06 |
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| I think of them as MIXED RACE i.e. black and white.... and until someone can prove to me that a white man/woman can have/give birth to a fully African/black child (no half African and no artificial shshsh) then i shall continue to see them as what they are MIXED RACE.
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darth norman
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 20:45 |
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| Abissinia is dat you? where you been child?
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girl21
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Posted: Sunday February 18th, 2007 10:04 |
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I agree with abyssinia, only TWO black parents can have a black child. It doesnt bother me though when mixed race people choose to identify themselves as black (even though i dont personally accept it) because only they have lived their lives and they probably just need the peace of mind.
I think issues arise when mixed race people strongly identify with their white side. I do and probably always will equate being white with being anti-black so am less inclined to associate with these certain types of mixed race people.
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Gmahogany.
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Posted: Sunday February 18th, 2007 13:02 |
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Abissinia wrote: I think of them as MIXED RACE i.e. black and white.... and until someone can prove to me that a white man/woman can have/give birth to a fully African/black child (no half African and no artificial shshsh) then i shall continue to see them as what they are MIXED RACE.
Good to see u, Abs.
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nikita
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Posted: Sunday February 18th, 2007 19:42 |
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| I consider them to be what they are, mixed race. To be honest I dont really trust them I have come across too many mixed race people who identify as black but think they are better because of their european features. But I blame black people for giving them that superiority complex because we are the ones who have placed them on a pedal stall because of their european resemblence but thats another story.
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girlfromthenc
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Posted: Sunday February 18th, 2007 23:10 |
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| Hard to explain because it normally varies, but to make a long story short it MOSTLY depends to do with what culture they were brought up in. I can normally tell when a Biracial person has been brought up around Blacks or Whites. And no, I'm not talking about whether they are "ghetto" or not.
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Melissa
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Posted: Monday February 19th, 2007 13:50 |
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I agree 100% with the following statements:
I do not agree that biracial people are black. They are no more so than they are white and one drop rule upholds the notion that white is pure and everything else is contaminated black... I don't subscribe. Why is Mariah or people as white as her with visible blue veins even near considered "black". Have we gone blind?
I think of them as MIXED RACE i.e. black and white.... and until someone can prove to me that a white man/woman can have/give birth to a fully African/black child (no half African and no artificial shshsh) then i shall continue to see them as what they are MIXED RACE.
As a collective, mixed race people are the most confusing people on the face of the earth.
To add: Why is it that all other races only allow people with 100% heritage to call themselves, White or Asian etc but anyone with black toe nails can be considered African? Stop using using our race as some kind of dustbin.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Monday February 19th, 2007 14:47 |
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A few points
"we're all mixed to some extent"
Possibly so but I'm reffering specifically to BIracials. ie persons with two parents of distinctly different ethnic backgrounds. Be that Irish (white) and Thai (asian) or African American (black) and WASP (white). A person with two mixed parents doesn't come with the same issues or stigmas as a biracial person.
Furthermore having a few white ancestors in the past doesn't make you "mixed" in the biracial sense despite the emphasis some place on their pretty hair or eyes and how they're part this or that. Having one black ancestor that far back by the same reason does not make you black. How can a person seriously argue that because Mariah's father was biracial, she is black? She is at most 25% black. Meaning she 75% is NOT. How difficult is this to grasp? Wentworth Miller? FFS!!
"they identify with black so they're black"
So black is no more a colour/culture/heritage but a clubhouse open to membership simply because one wishes to join? I'm sure Eminem and Lady Sovriegn identify with black. So what? They're no more black than Derek Laud is white, not for lack of effort. As much as a biracial person feels drawn to one side you're seeing the playing out of parenting issues and not actuallity. It's denial mostly and it's a negative emotion. Usually people are driven to identify with black either because it's cool, all their friends are or more sinister like, they have been driven towards the only group who seemingly accept them on the surface by white people which brings me to...
"white people see us all as black anyway so effectively they're black"
It's not up to white people to define either mixed/biracial people nor black people. It's long past time we learned that.
They can't have it both ways/They have to pick sides
And most would prefer if they picked our side presumably. But that white side is always there in the unconscious of them and black people. It's an unspoken taboo which leads to them never really being on any side. Those who don't know the issues of colourism by now should catch up somewhere. Also in a sense this is defining mixed people by a standard we not they are setting. They must be what black people decide they must be or they're traitors... to whom? Realise they are 50% white in the first place and we won't be dissapointed by them nor compel them to be what they aren't or deny themselves. They stay being "black" and black people continue either uplifting them as the ideals of beauties in self destructive behaviour which breeds a superiority mindset in the mind of the mixed and a backlash of hatred against the mixed in a stupid cycle. Either a mixed person is unnecessarily glorified or unnecessarily hated to silly levels both resulting in unstable personalitys purely because of this picking sides business.
Latinos/South Africans
Not the same as BIracials. Understand that cape coloureds in SA and similar places elsewhere are not BIracial. They don't have two parents of distinct different backgrounds. Both parents and their grandparents to the nth level a few 100 years are all part of that mixed seperate group with it's own community/culture history distinct from both blacks and whites. In terms of the social issues that come with BIracials mixed people are not the same. As a group they aren't identified the same simply because mixed people in these communities don't have that picking sides business or torn feeling in their heads. However politically/Socially and idealogically they are the same in one way....
Those against the idea of a seperate racial category are really against what is best and most stable for mixed persons themselves and where evidence shows they are most stable. Not torn between two worlds hopping like aliens, not lying to themselves and declaring they're one thing soley but being exactly what they are. Biracials should be part of the seperate racial classification. Many of them have openly expressed that they want this. Yet when some here see their websites we get upset with them for stating this. Why? It's so much better for Africans too. Not in the sense that our fragile egos can't take mixed people around confusing us but that it's adopting not only a white standard of what black is but their whole purity reasoning along with it.
Mixed people are simply that. What it says on the tin.
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Posted: Monday February 19th, 2007 15:20 |
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| They are people just like any other. Some are cool some are not, some are stupid some are smart, some have honor some do not. I dont judge people based on their skin color.
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Posted: Monday February 19th, 2007 15:24 |
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Just when I was about to say something, Bacoo slips up and says what I'm going to say. Great job man, bout time someone got the point.
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amononi
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Posted: Monday February 19th, 2007 17:04 |
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| I just wish they choose a side and stop jumping back and forth. Barack Obama is black because he choose to identify as such. If people don't like Obama saying he is black they need to take that to him. Also, if you are biracial you're black side is not "one drop". I'm getting tired of hearing this "one drop" to apply to biracials. If you are a biracial HALF of you is black not "one drop". Also Mariah Carey is a white woman not a black women. I just wish these biracials stay white if they choose to identify as such and stay black if they choose to identify as such. Also it would help that they choose the side that they most phenotypically identify as. It is kind of weird if Halle Berry say she is white.
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The Last African
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Posted: Monday February 19th, 2007 17:33 |
