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Gmahogany
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 05:10 |
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Rockette wrote: @Gmahogany: Actually, I did read sh*t of what u said. I never denied that white men have had/continue to have an enduring interest in non-white women, for WHATEVER reason. What i did say is that,historically and contemporarily for the most part, they have not felt the need to denigrate and humiliate their own women in the process. I'm not suprised that some white men compare Black women favorably to white women, WHEN they're being honest. They just usually would rather be caught dead than admitting that within their own community, especially to white women en masse. I'm not happy to defend white men. I don't give a damn about white men, or white people for that matter, I'm just a keen observer of their ways. As far as some Black men go, the ones who fit the description that I described NEED to be demeaned, and I will continue to make it my business to do so. Some of these oreo/coconut/ tom/coon "I'm happy to get a white woman no matter how she looks/acts" are the ones who seem to be happy to defend mighty whitey.
One doesn't have to go looking for Black men who do it, Black men who date interracially have historically and perpetually flaunted their distaste and contempt for the own women to any and everyone who would listen, so much so, that books and essays have been written about the phenomenon. I wasn't JUST referring to the internet and forums or this time that we are living in. I'm talking about some sh*t that's been going on for DECADES. Maybe, u didn't read sh*t of what i wrote, in this thread.
Again, the point that I and several other women on this thread have been trying to make is NOT that Black women are above reproach or criticism, when it's justified. My point has been that A LOT of that criticism is coming from Black men who want to justify their centuries long lust for white women and their palpable self-hatred. I say this because, while there are Black women who are behaving less than desirably, ya'll don't really wanna compare which of us(black men or black women), has the SLIMMEST PICKINGS, these days. I'm fairly sure that Black women would have more to legitimately b**ch and complain about than Black men do.
Rockette: Being that many black men feel white women offset undesirable traits and stereotypes about them, they willing pander for white attention by any means necessary and could care less who they place in harms way. Somehow black men who hate their own image can never understand why they are the focus of books and essays about their warped mindset, but it's all due to the reasons you touched on. There is absolutely no comparison on who has the slimmest pickings when choosing partners today. We even have to deal with men who cannot pull white women and feel they are selling themselves short for being with black women. Lately, I've read posts from black men saying they will have to reconsider black women because they aren't having much luck attracting and keeping nonblack women. This is one of the worst kinds to have in our midst.
That's funny about them not being able to pull quality white women, these days. They've apparently gassed these white women's heads up so much, that now they have the lion's share of the power. That was predictable though. Anytime u enter into a relationship as less than equal, there are bound to be problems. White women are so accustomed to Black men running behind them, that they can't believe it when they come across one who isn't impressed. I once dated a guy who was a weightlifter, he told me about how he would be in the gym somtimes and white women would try to catch his attention. He said that he would keep on doing what he was doing, ignoring them. He said they would invariably get a look of disbelief and suprise as if to say "what do u mean u don't want me? To a lot of them, it's a given that every black man wants them and they've been confirmed in that view by far too many so called brothas, i'm afraid.
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efenjee
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 08:59 |
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BlackBeauty wrote: Omaar wrote:
All
I see too many sistaz rushing to the defense of ALL black women instead of actually making a distinction between the decent black women who are in the majority and the trashy ones who are in the minority and understanding that's what the complain is about.
Maybe because some cannot make the disctinction themselves? 
To you both and everyone else, I really am going to have to learn to express myself better because I thought I had covered this. All over this forum, you have black men stating that the MAJORITY of black women are no good. You have them explaining that the reason so many black men prefer non-black women is because the QUALITY of MOST black women is so low. If a person is saying that the quality of MOST black women is low and that same person is saying they understand why men go for other races instead, they are saying that the quality of MOST non black women is high enough to make it worthwhile shunning black women. If these people believed there were the same amount of trashy white women as black women, then what would be the point in going outside the race? If the same amount of trash is in both races you may as well stick to your own, no? What it boils down to is a lot of these black men here and elsewhere truly believe there are LESS trashy women OUTSIDE their own race. That is a sad fact and one that people here seem determined to ignore.
I am no way going to sit aside and put myself into the 'superior' minority class of black women and accept silly little black boys talking about: MOST BLACK WOMEN ARE NO GOOD, THE MAJORITY OF BLACK WOMEN YOU COME ACROSS ARE FULL OF NEGATIVE CHARACTERISTICS, IT'S HARD TO FIND A DECENT BLACK WOMAN COS THEY'RE MAINLY ALL SO UNAPPEALING etc etc. As I have said countless times on this thread and others, NO BLACK WOMAN that I know or have heard of has a problem with people talking about the negative element within our race, both male and female negative elements. See the drugdealer thread. I'm sure there would be UPROAR if someone came on there and said MOST BLACK MEN ARE DRUGDEALERS AND IT'S HARD FOR A BLACK WOMAN TO FIND A DECENT NON DRUG DEALING BLACK MAN. The problem I and many others have is when people (some black men and even some black women) suggest - and it has OFTEN been suggested here - that good black women are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. Let us not pretend that this is not a common assumption here at blacknet I was myself extremely shocked and disheartened to discover this but it is true and we all know it is.
Again, I have said this many times before: just because I may count myself as a good black woman it does not mean I have to think MOST other black women are bad. In my experience and from my observations most black women are decent good women that would be an asset to any man. Some women obviously prefer to view the majority of their fellow black women as beneath them but I do not get an ego boost out of doing that and I do not believe it is true. I believe the OVERALL quality of black women is very high and I believe the NASTY, TRASHY ONES form a VERY SMALL MINORITY. Most of the guys that are on this forum discussing this have themselves said that the MAJORITY of black women are no good. You know who you are so I don't see the sense in changing tack and now saying that you don't think that after all.
As I've said before, if these people who see the majority of black woman as not being worth sh*t also think the same about black men then they obviously do not think a lot of the race to which they belong. If these people who are saying that decent black women are few and far between and damn hard to find because of the sheer numbers of the trashy, undesirable kind - if these people who are saying this believe it is easier to find a decent woman who is non black then what they are saying is that there are far more decent non black women than there are decent black woman. WILL PEOPLE READ WHAT IS BEING SAID AND ATTEMPT TO ABSORB IT BEFORE THEY POST SILLY REMARKS WHICH CLEARLY SHOW THEY HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING WHATSOEVER OF WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEING DISCUSSED HERE.
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 09:32 |
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no no no no
@intelligent sisters ONLY
first, it seems everything is being thrown everywhere in this thread, people being liars, twisting and sly. It writes that white women do not complain about their men being with little boys or asian brides.......why.................because they know it is only a minority that do so. Second the men do not justify their love of little boys or asian bride by saying 70% of white women are XYZ.
I live in majority white country........and i have NEVER heard any white perosn saying * white XYZ is this and that* they refer to the individual..................
but the minroty blacks are always on a case of black women this and that..........and i retaliate and say yeah but you aint perfect yourself mate............
Now
lets look at the title
*where do black female's attitudes Stem from?*
this means one thing.......*Stem from*................as if it is *genetically encoded* since birth
Black females attitudes............like it is an *exclusive behaviour* problem to just black women.
their is a way to conduct yourself when you are black and if you want to provide advice to other blacks, then do so.........but do not come with farts and stereotype.
lets look at the drug dealers thread.......lets look at the title
Drug dealers it's almost like the stigmas has been removed from them, they are treated like kings 
NOW
imagine if it is written in a stereotypical way
why are all black men are drug dealers, why do we respect them?
where do black females attitude stems from?
can you see the similarity in sterotyping?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
why am I looking at the how people write things, simple it revels if you are want to help the minority problem, or if you have been* brainwashed* by the media.
so I and other intelligent sisters are not fooled by once by the
*hey I am innocent, i just want to see what our problem is*
and posting here for one year and half...........with 2000 posts on black womens attitude.............YET it is not representative in real life........it gets tedious and broing and i will disrput the next thread.........simple
another example
Lets look at the USA Apprentice show...........the first black women..............who was the most calm women in the show, from the first show she was described as *aggresive, dangerous etc* and if you have watched the show and read the relevent topic in this forum then you will find that she is not that character and many peole in this forum including men agreed............see the power of being brainwashed?
lets look at another froum title
why do black men cheat are they insecure or simply not satisfied
why do black men cheat? are they insecure ?
that is a stereotypical title..............yet several members asked * is it exclusive to black only* and YET everyone agreed that not all black men cheat, Kunjufu, Mafdet et all all sternly explained to the poster that you can *sterotype all black men as cheaters*.........
so I am slowly revelaing the hypocritical nature of members here who do BARK when it comes stereotyping black men............but when it comes stereotyping black women............then you want to debate.
Nopes, never, nada...............i will not let it happen...........
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efenjee
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 11:02 |
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Mercenary wrote: It's quite interesting and extremely amusing to read Blacks womens thoughts on the nature of interractions between Black men and white women. All of the opinions expressed on the subject by those calling themselves black women in this thread can be summarised as uninformed gossip, paranoia or jealousy bordering on bitterness.
Paranoia and jealousy bordering on bitterness?? Are you reading the same posts as I am? I think you'll find that most black women know that white women have NOTHING on most black women. Therefore why would we have any reason to feel like that? That would only happen if we truly believed white women were superior to us - as you clearly do.
The sense of threat they feel in the face of white women is almost palpable. I was at a Wedding reception at the weekend, a black couple were married, during the evening a group of pretty and dare I say classy looking white girls arrived. For a moment the air was tense, I quitely observed the reactions of the black women. They were looking at black men nearby obviously watching their (the mens) reactions to the white women.
If you had bothered to find out you probably would have discovered that the black women were probably just checking out the outfits these 'classy' white women were wearing. This is a common pastime for women of all colours while at weddings and you instead chose to interpret that as the black women being 'threatened', mmm, very telling. If there were women there watching men's reactions it could have been down to the fact that so often black men make a fuss of the plainest, palest, stringiest haired white women and it has become a form of amusement for so many of us.
I don't know what they expected to see happen, perhaps they thought we'd rush up to them, throw a red carpet on the ground take them by the hand and walk them princess style into hall. However no one except the black women paid any attention.
Well you were obviously paying attention because you are here now telling the story. Why should black women have expected to see anyone throwing red carpets down and walking anyone into the hall? Could it be, that this is you projecting your ideas about how white women should be treated onto black women? You have still not said you spoke to any of these black women but you have made your mind up about how they felt. Mmm, strange. I think you are revealing far more about yourself than the black women you 'mind-read' that day.
Anyway, the opinions of the women in this thread actually reveal a lot more about them than they do about about black men or white women. Their contempt for black men and deep resentment and sense of inferiority to white women is glaringly obvious. So contemptuous of black men are they that one has to ask why they care that some black men find love or lust in the arms of white women.
The contempt I personally feel isn't for most black men, as I am sure that most black men do not denigrate and disrespect black women in their quest to prove how much more desirable white women are. I reserve my contempt and disgust for those who have no love for themselves and their own. What would any self-respecting black woman want with a man like that I ask you? Do you not think we are grateful that those black men would rather find love and lust in the arms of a white woman, than to be with a black woman who they resent and abuse and belittle? I for one wish that more of the black men who feel that black women were so worthless would stay well away from black women altogether and wash away their genes and their bloodline by ensuring that their mixed race offspring only procreate with white people.
I have never read any post by a black woman on this site where it was conceded that a black man and white woman may actually have come together on the basis of a pure and mutual love and respect, rather all BM/WW relationships are all dismissed as being forged in jungle fever.
If black men were saying that they were with whie women out of love for that individual I would have a lot more respect for them. Instead they are saying that they are with white women because black women are no good. Who cares about jungle fever? Suffer from whatever fever you like as long as you do not disrespect me and my sisters, cousins, aunts, friends by saying that the MAJORITY of us are unworthy of a black man.
Well that's not my experience. Furthermore if you were to poll black men privately for their opinions on white women, most of them would admit to finding some white women attractive, but would never consider embarking on serious relationship with anything less than a quality white woman, and only then as a last resort should they find themselves unable to attract a suitable black woman, or if they simply fell in wholesome love with a white girl.
I agree that most black men worldwide do prefer black women. I am talking about the poor black men who "unable to attract a suitable black woman" find themselves getting all bitter over the fact and go onto the worldwide web to complain about it. I have no problem whatsoever with the poor black men who "unable to attract a suitable black woman" settle, as a last resort, for a white woman he loves. BTW if you are a desirable, attractive, suitable black man you should have no trouble attracting a female of the same calibre so that should tell you something about the kind of man who is "unable to attract a suitable black woman."
However in the twisted minds of some of the black women on this site such truth is given scant regard. According to them, Black men who date white women will take any white woman, and are afflicted in the literal sense with jungle fever, caught in the grip of some uncontrollable longing for white women.
You appear to have one of the most twisted minds I have ever had an insight to on this website. You are coming across sooo angry that black women have dared to speak badly of white women and you are obviously deeply offended that black women should suggest that the white women that end up with black men are usually the bottom of the barrel and usually white women who white men do not want. Why does this hurt you so much?? I think the uncontrollable longing some black men display is not even for white women, it is just for any woman who is not black or does not look black - basically anything that is not like themselves.
If ever anything was ever further from the truth it is that lie. On the contrary it is white women who become bessotted with black men, quite often it is the white woman who will not take no for an answer, to the point where a brother may indeed succumb to the ego boosting flattery of having a woman offer herself to him on a plate.
It's a two way thing in my opinion. You have white women who become besotted with black men and you have the men who you say succumb to the ego boosting flattery. You also have black men who become besotted with white women and the white women who succumb to the ego boosting flattery of being placed on a pedestal over the women of that man's own race. That is the truth of it. Stop trying to convince yourself that it's all one way, you have plenty of black men who will spend their whole lives running behind white women and in some cases you have the ones who feel so inferior to white women that they will not try to get with them but will instead spend their lives hating black women while pining for a white woman. Or the most pitiful kind: the ones who have NO LUCK with white women and despite repeated efforts fail to get one, even though white women have a reputation for being easier, there are still some who will turn their noses up at some of these adoring, pathetic black men and refuse to 'soil' themselves by sleeping with a black man.
Let me add that this type of behaviour is not unique to white women. Black women too must admit to sometime persusing a man to the point where he eventually caved in.
I do believe however that more black men have become accepting of the idea of interracial dating, (this in part, explains the abscence of black men from many all-black social events nowadays) and I do believe that black women are partially repsonsible for this.
What was that? Black women are partially responsible for black men's absence from all-black social events??? Black women are responsible for black men embracing the idea of interracial dating?? I've heard it all now...hahaha!
Black women, like women generally are economically independent and thus able to select a partners solely on the basis of their sexual value to them, since most of them desire the most attractive men be it physically, financially or both, they of their own doing have shrunk the pool of eligible partners available to them to choose from, because the truth is most men are not very wealthy or extremely good looking and thus are not even contemplated as potential mates by many women.
So women only choose potential mates through two criteria: physical attractiveness and wealth?? Being very wealthy or extremely good looking may be something you use to measure your worth by but I can assure you that there are many people who look beyond the superficial and the materialistic to find a partner.
So effectively most of them are competing for a small pool of men, that pool is made even smaller by competition from white women and other race women since the taboo against dating black men operates less harshly these days.
The taboo against women of other races dating black men operates less harshly does it? Well isn't that lucky for those black men who DESPISE black women and cannot bear to date them!
So what's the solution for embittered and lonely black women, in light of this reality? The old notion from economics re' supply and demand comes to mind here:
If there is a glut of a product on the market, the price of the product must goes down if it is to sell
I have no idea what point you are trying to make from this last paragraph so I won't attempt to respond to it, what I will do is suggest you get psychological help because if you are really a black man, you are very badly damaged and will probably only go through life hurting yourself and other people with the type of mentality you have. Good luck brother.
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 11:13 |
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@efenjee
no no no let me intervene.............
mercenery aka runfromyourwife ( search members and read his colourful account on women)..........is one person that we should *encourage* to marry white.
so don't bother yourself with it. 
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efenjee
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 11:14 |
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| You were so angry you posted the same thing twice Mercenary. Now BREEEEATHE! Let goooo of the an-ger.
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Rockette
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 11:30 |
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@mercenary, black women do not feel inferior to white women, but black men like you work double time trying to convince us that we are. Most likely you feel inferior to white women and white men and can't understand why we don't adopt your stance and follow suit.
It's not unusual for black men to pounce on the one white woman in a setting which is predominantly black. Some derive a great deal of pleasure behaving like besotted fools for white skin especially in the presence of black women. I've even heard white women talk about how uncomfortable they feel when black men do this. The black men tried convincing this particular white woman that something had to be wrong with her black girlfriends if they reacted this way towards her. She explained that her friends were approachable and attractive, but the black men didn't want to hear any of this as they continued attacking black women. To top it off, when a nonblack man began approaching her black girlfriends, the black men were bothered about this too. No other race of men believe in behaving this way in front of the opposite gender except black men. It seems that black men enjoy rubbing sh*t in black women's faces and want us to act as back up equipment when the rug gets snatched from under their feet. As our indifference sets in you'll eventually understand the consequences of your actions.
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Kibibi
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 11:38 |
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efenjee wrote:
To you both and everyone else, I really am going to have to learn to express myself better because I thought I had covered this. All over this forum, you have black men stating that the MAJORITY of black women are no good.
All around this village we have threads generalising both genders WHY DO BLACK MEN DO THIS/WHY AINT BLACK MEN DOING THAT/ BLACK WOMEN ARE THIS/BLACK WOMEN ARE THAT. It goes both ways.
You have them explaining that the reason so many black men prefer non-black women is because the QUALITY of MOST black women is so low. If a person is saying that the quality of MOST black women is low and that same person is saying they understand why men go for other races instead, they are saying that the quality of MOST non black women is high enough to make it worthwhile shunning black women.
If these people believed there were the same amount of trashy white women as black women, then what would be the point in going outside the race? If the same amount of trash is in both races you may as well stick to your own, no? What it boils down to is a lot of these black men here and elsewhere truly believe there are LESS trashy women OUTSIDE their own race. That is a sad fact and one that people here seem determined to ignore.
I do understand your point and some people do truly believe that...but then there are others who dont and state as much. However, when discussing issues with the Black man and the Black woman can we for once just focus on ourselves rather than white women this, white women that (that goes for the man and women). I do feel that some people love this comparing and contrasting of Black women to other races...why not compare and contrast with other Black women-wouldnt that make more sense and be more beneficial?
I am no way going to sit aside and put myself into the 'superior' minority class of black women and accept silly little black boys talking about: MOST BLACK WOMEN ARE NO GOOD, THE MAJORITY OF BLACK WOMEN YOU COME ACROSS ARE FULL OF NEGATIVE CHARACTERISTICS, IT'S HARD TO FIND A DECENT BLACK WOMAN COS THEY'RE MAINLY ALL SO UNAPPEALING etc etc. As I have said countless times on this thread and others, NO BLACK WOMAN that I know or have heard of has a problem with people talking about the negative element within our race, both male and female negative elements. See the drugdealer thread. I'm sure there would be UPROAR if someone came on there and said MOST BLACK MEN ARE DRUGDEALERS AND IT'S HARD FOR A BLACK WOMAN TO FIND A DECENT NON DRUG DEALING BLACK MAN. The problem I and many others have is when people (some black men and even some black women) suggest - and it has OFTEN been suggested here - that good black women are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. Let us not pretend that this is not a common assumption here at blacknet I was myself extremely shocked and disheartened to discover this but it is true and we all know it is.
I do not think it is a common assumption here on blacknet...but let me just say what YOU would consider a 'good Black woman' and what a Black man would consider a 'good Black woman' could possibly be two different things. From just knowing/being friends with someone and actually wanting a relationship with that same person different things are wanted/needed and different things are accepted/appreciated.
I have a friend and she is a great friend and she would be considered a 'good Black woman' by her friends...but at the same time because of the way she goes on about certain things from a 'good Black mans' point of view she probably wouldnt. They probably wouldnt see what I see because what I am looking for in a friend she has, what they r looking for in a mate she (probably) doesnt have.
Again, I have said this many times before: just because I may count myself as a good black woman it does not mean I have to think MOST other black women are bad. In my experience and from my observations most black women are decent good women that would be an asset to any man. Some women obviously prefer to view the majority of their fellow black women as beneath them but I do not get an ego boost out of doing that and I do not believe it is true. I believe the OVERALL quality of black women is very high and I believe the NASTY, TRASHY ONES form a VERY SMALL MINORITY.
I disagree with that. I find that where I am in the world the quality of the Black man and the Black woman is declining. If you just take a look at the youths of today it is possible to say it may get worse.
As I've said before, if these people who see the majority of black woman as not being worth sh*t also think the same about black men then they obviously do not think a lot of the race to which they belong. If these people who are saying that decent black women are few and far between and damn hard to find because of the sheer numbers of the trashy, undesirable kind - if these people who are saying this believe it is easier to find a decent woman who is non black then what they are saying is that there are far more decent non black women than there are decent black woman.
I choose to focus on the comments made by Black men who appreciate and respect their relationships with their fellow Black women, yet will discuss the problems they come across in/with some Black women. Why continue to stress yourself over someone who makes excuses for not dating you anyway? They are seriously not important.
Last edited on Friday August 5th, 2005 11:52 by Kibibi
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efenjee
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 11:45 |
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Rockette, this person is quite obviously a lunatic so I doubt he will ever see how stupid what he is saying is. I think the part that really hurt him was when it was suggested that black men pick up the trashiest white women that white men reject. Even though it is true, it must be quite painful for those black men who are in that position to have to hear that from other people who they were perhaps hoping hadn't noticed.
I mean if you see the biggest, fattest, greasiest-looking, stinkest-looking, broken down white woman pushing a buggy, you can bet your bottom dollar that in that buggy sits a mixed race baby gurgling happily away. It's a game I have often played when bored sitting on public transport staring out the window. It has always been a source of amusement (mixed with disgust) for a lot of black women when we see these black men acting so obsequious towards these horribly unattractive white women, and for some of these men our reaction provokes anger. This is brilliantly illustrated by the post that Mercenary put up here. I just cannot for the life of me understand why people like that waste their time on a black forum putting down black women. Wouldn't that time be better spent over on a white forum praising white women?
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efenjee
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 12:16 |
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I said: Again, I have said this many times before: just because I may count myself as a good black woman it does not mean I have to think MOST other black women are bad. In my experience and from my observations most black women are decent good women that would be an asset to any man. Some women obviously prefer to view the majority of their fellow black women as beneath them but I do not get an ego boost out of doing that and I do not believe it is true. I believe the OVERALL quality of black women is very high and I believe the NASTY, TRASHY ONES form a VERY SMALL MINORITY.
Black Beauty said: I disagree with that. I find that where I am in the world the quality of the Black man and the Black woman is declining. If you just take a look at the youths of today it is possible to say it may get worse.
I'm saying now: BlackBeauty, the fact that you disagree with me on this which is actually the CRUX of all my postings on this subject - means that you and I are on two completely different wavelengths. We will never see eye to eye or even be able to debate this issue if you believe that there are more unsuitable black women than there are suitable ones. If you believe that there are more bad black people than good ones, then we have two completely opposite points of view. A lot of the youths need guidance and direction and with that they will turn out okay, some will grow out of their dirty ways with no assistance but I think it will only be a minority that fall into the horrible, nasty, trashy category - and stay there. Black women in particular I think may start out as annoying, bad mannered, loud girls on the bus but mature into sensible, respectable, decent women worthy of any decent man. What surprises me is the amount of black people who believe that they are fine but MOST other black people are worthless! Now I think I am beginning to understand the term 'self-hate'.
While I understand that everyone's opinions will differ as to what constitutes 'good', I am going off what has been frequently given as the worst aspects of black female behaviour and I am categorically stating that the types of black women that I have observed in my life within and outside my family - could not be placed into this category of undesirable black women because the majority of black women I have come across in life do not display these negative characteristics to the extent that you could use them to describe that woman. We have all perhaps displayed aggression at some point but that does not make us an 'aggressive person', we have perhaps all been cold towards someone at some point but that doesn't make us a 'cold person.' That's just two examples of negative attributes someone could display without being that, but I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from.
You say you have friends who you think are nice friends but you would not necessarily expect a man to see them as good potential mates. That is your experience. My experience is that most women I have in my life and those women I have met but are not currently in my life - would make good potential mates for any decent man, because they do not have any negative characteristics to such a degree that they outweigh the positive characteristics they possess. Nobody is perfect, not you, not me and not any white woman. Every single person has bad points but as long as those bad points do not drown out the good, we do not label them as bad people. That, as you say, is focusing on the negative and is not productive or useful for anyone, least of all black men when they are giving their reasons why they date white women. You say that I shouldn't be bothered about men who give excuses for not wanting to date black women and believe me I am not bothered at all about them and their lifestyle choices, what bothers me... (let me say it again!) is when people are denigrating black women on an all black forum. You would think they would go to a white (racist?) forum for that kind of thing where it may be better received and even encouraged.
You may disagree, but if you had read everything that I have read then you too would perhaps reach the conclusion that it is a common assumption on blacknet that most black women are undesirable and there are only a few who are not. I have asked direct questions and even started threads to find out what the general feeling is towards black women and to my dismay, there are many here who are not shy about saying, loud and clear that it is their view that MOST black women are not worth sh*t. This I will always find offensive.
Last edited on Friday August 5th, 2005 12:19 by
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 12:38 |
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Nothing Ive read on here over the last 2 years or experienece on road will shift my and many mens poerception that the ratio of unsuitable black women stands at betwwen 65 -80%.
Black Beauty/ Mafdet a few others fall into the 25% wholsome catergory. Even this site will show the 70% perceners for what they are.
And no.. I do check black womens and have realativelky little trouble getting phone numbers or approaching them. It a pity that 70% of them go straight back out the phone into dleted memeory. LOL.
Nah tek back no talk.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 12:43 |
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mansamusa wrote: Nothing Ive read on here over the last 2 years or experienece on road will shift my and many mens poerception that the ratio of unsuitable black women stands at betwwen 65 -80%.
Black Beauty/ Mafdet a few others fall into the 25% wholsome catergory. Even this site will show the 70% perceners for what they are.
And no.. I do check black womens and have realativelky little trouble getting phone numbers or approaching them. It a pity that 70% of them go straight back out the phone into dleted memeory. LOL.
Nah tek back no talk.
Good for you Mansamusa. Quite puzzling that you should bother to get numbers and then delete 70% of them, makes me wonder why you bother especially as you already know what you're going to do with them.
This is what I'm talking about Black Beauty, but I guess this is okay with you as you are named as one of the 20 percenters. lol!
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 13:10 |
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efenjee wrote: mansamusa wrote: Nothing Ive read on here over the last 2 years or experienece on road will shift my and many mens poerception that the ratio of unsuitable black women stands at betwwen 65 -80%.
Black Beauty/ Mafdet a few others fall into the 25% wholsome catergory. Even this site will show the 70% perceners for what they are.
And no.. I do check black womens and have realativelky little trouble getting phone numbers or approaching them. It a pity that 70% of them go straight back out the phone into dleted memeory. LOL.
Nah tek back no talk.
Good for you Mansamusa. Quite puzzling that you should bother to get numbers and then delete 70% of them, makes me wonder why you bother especially as you already know what you're going to do with them.
This is what I'm talking about Black Beauty, but I guess this is okay with you as you are named as one of the 20 percenters. lol!
Not puzzling at all. It takes time and some conversation on a variety of issues before it can be established that a number is worth deletion. Im not psychic.
BTW efengee you have the potential to be in the 20 -30% but I think you are led too often by the worst of your compatriats and by white womens thinking in general. Still your're not alone in this.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 13:21 |
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Somebody wrote earlier on I think it was afroamericangirl?? That black women underneath all the front are actually the most soft. I completely agree with this, my friend says to me "you front like you are all hard faced etc but you are soo soft underneath it all". This is true although sometimes I dont want to admit it and not eveyone gets to see this side of me. But often the "toughtest" people are the most sensitive. Black women have to protect themselves and their emotions but behind closed door they are hurting. Having seen this first hand in my family and the tribulations most of the women have been through. Having to be strong for everyone when there was no men around to take some of the strain etc.
Also someone else wrote, how she forgave her boyfriend after he cheated on her and he said thats the white side of you, thats why you forgive soo easily, cant remember the name?? sorry! I think people already have stereotypes in their head about certain groups ie black women. When they meet someone who doesnt live upto to their expectations they dont know how to take it. So they either take the piss because they think oh shes soft, not like other black women who scream and rant at everything. Or they just dont know how to take you cos it diffrerent to preconceived ideas, so they get scared cos it wasnt what they were expecting. This is how many stereotypes work ie if someone doesnt conform to how you think every one in that particular group acts then people explain it away as you being "different" from the norm or your alrite but dont know about the rest of you mentality. It seems to me black women will never win, if you have this so called attitude real or imagined it will always be used against you. And if you soft then people will take the piss and think of you as not being a "real" black woman cos you forgive easily.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 13:27 |
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Man you guys are on page 6 and still have not seemed to have gotten anywhere? Now like Real Brother the women and men are using percentages without actual numbers? LOL
If I see a 99.9% posted anywhere, I am locking the thread down LOL
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 13:40 |
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Well here goes...
"99.9% of black people think that 99.9% of black people (not including themselves) are everything white people say we are. So we all hate each other (but not ourselves)."
There it is Safety Blitz, there's the 99.9% quote. Lock down this sickening thread.
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 13:46 |
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How does Mercenary do that. i.e put his post after everyone elses.
99.9% of black women dont like to look to their failings on internet message boards.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 13:47 |
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efenjee wrote:
I'm saying now: BlackBeauty, the fact that you disagree with me on this which is actually the CRUX of all my postings on this subject - means that you and I are on two completely different wavelengths. We will never see eye to eye or even be able to debate this issue if you believe that there are more unsuitable black women than there are suitable ones.
Firstly you are changing my statement. I said the quality of Black MEN AND WOMEN is declining, because it is. That does not equate to more unsuitable black women/men than suitable...I said it is declining meaning
the quality of black men and women is declining doesn't actually mean interrelationsips are popping up, it means two messed up ppl getting together and having confused messed up kids....hence the quality and NOT suitability
If you believe that there are more bad black people than good ones, then we have two completely opposite points of view. A lot of the youths need guidance and direction and with that they will turn out okay, some will grow out of their dirty ways with no assistance but I think it will only be a minority that fall into the horrible, nasty, trashy category - and stay there.
Yes a lot of youths need guidance and direction, but it is also VERY hard to change a person's mind set and not so simple and straightforward.
Black women in particular I think may start out as annoying, bad mannered, loud girls on the bus but mature into sensible, respectable, decent women worthy of any decent man.
Who said anything about loud girls on the bus? Please do not bring other people's comments into mine.
What surprises me is the amount of black people who believe that they are fine but MOST other black people are worthless! Now I think I am beginning to understand the term 'self-hate'.
LOL are you asking me if I think everyone else is worthless or are you telling me?
While I understand that everyone's opinions will differ as to what constitutes 'good', I am going off what has been frequently given as the worst aspects of black female behaviour and I am categorically stating that the types of black women that I have observed in my life within and outside my family - could not be placed into this category of undesirable black women because the majority of black women I have come across in life do not display these negative characteristics to the extent that you could use them to describe that woman. We have all perhaps displayed aggression at some point but that does not make us an 'aggressive person', we have perhaps all been cold towards someone at some point but that doesn't make us a 'cold person.' That's just two examples of negative attributes someone could display without being that, but I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from.
I do understand what you are saying, but at the same time I am not just talking about ppl who may on occasion be aggressive or may on occasion be cold, if that were the case then I am sure there wouldnt be a need for these debates.
You say you have friends who you think are nice friends but you would not necessarily expect a man to see them as good potential mates. That is your experience.
I said a friend, it was singular not plural, and I used her as an example because it is true.
My experience is that most women I have in my life and those women I have met but are not currently in my life - would make good potential mates for any decent man, because they do not have any negative characteristics to such a degree that they outweigh the positive characteristics they possess. Nobody is perfect, not you, not me and not any white woman.
Once again what does a white woman have to do with u or me??
Every single person has bad points but as long as those bad points do not drown out the good, we do not label them as bad people. That, as you say, is focusing on the negative and is not productive or useful for anyone, least of all black men when they are giving their reasons why they date white women. You say that I shouldn't be bothered about men who give excuses for not wanting to date black women and believe me I am not bothered at all about them and their lifestyle choices, what bothers me... (let me say it again!) is when people are denigrating black women on an all black forum. You would think they would go to a white (racist?) forum for that kind of thing where it may be better received and even encouraged.
You may disagree, but if you had read everything that I have read then you too would perhaps reach the conclusion that it is a common assumption on blacknet that most black women are undesirable and there are only a few who are not. I have asked direct questions and even started threads to find out what the general feeling is towards black women and to my dismay, there are many here who are not shy about saying, loud and clear that it is their view that MOST black women are not worth sh*t. This I will always find offensive.
Yes it is offensive but at the same time, if different male members, who value the Black relationship, are saying the same thing then there must (to an extent at least) be some truth to it and it is this that needs to be explored. Just because you havent witnessed it doesnt mean it isnt true. Which again comes to my point about what we as women value in other Black women will sometimes differ to what the Black man values.
Last edited on Friday August 5th, 2005 14:00 by Kibibi
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efenjee
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 13:50 |
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@ Mansamusa: Mercenary's post came before my post where I answered every one of his ridiculous assertions. He posted it twice and one disappeared but the other keeps appearing after everyone else's for some reason. Don't worry about that Mansamusa, the important thing is that he has had his say.
@ BlackBeauty: I think you have misinterpreted a lot of what I said in my last post to you and I really can't be bothered to go over it all showing you where and how. As I said in the beginning, our views on the state of black people obviously differ considerably and are unlikely to change regardless of how long we spend debating it. You have your opinions and I have mine.
Last edited on Friday August 5th, 2005 13:55 by
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 13:59 |
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Efengee wrote:
Black women in particular I think may start out as annoying, bad mannered, loud girls on the bus but mature into sensible, respectable, decent women worthy of any decent man.
Really .??!!Explain the dynamics of that one.
I always belive in the mantra show me the boy/ and Ill show you the man. This can be applied to females too.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:02 |
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Sooofresh wrote:
why do black men cheat are they insecure or simply not satisfied
why do black men cheat? are they insecure ?
that is a stereotypical title..............yet several members asked * is it exclusive to black only* and YET everyone agreed that not all black men cheat, Kunjufu, Mafdet et all all sternly explained to the poster that you can *sterotype all black men as cheaters*.........
First of all is that a typo when you say Mafdet said you "can" stereotype all black men.
so I am slowly revelaing the hypocritical nature of members here who do BARK when it comes stereotyping black men............but when it comes stereotyping black women............then you want to debate.
Nopes, never, nada...............i will not let it happen...........
Now to include my name in the above paragraph and then go on to say you are revealing the hypocrticial nature of members I hope you are not implying me because I get pretty sick and tired of seeing post negatively sterotyping both black men and women and walking in to say you can't tarnish everyone in the same brush.
Furthermore Sooofresh I have been here on blacknet far longer than you and I have seen this topics crop up over and over again and to be perfectly honest I get tired of them but the only reason I entered this topic as I perceived it as a spin off from several others recently that I entered namely Jamaican men do not prefer Jamaican women topic.
Like this topic where I first entered to say the title is incorrect and should be changed. If you notice at the beginning of that topic I said the man is a fool and disfavourable women are found in every society globally but and this is a BIG but which I feel I am qualified to say considering I am Jamaican and lived there for a period of my life and frequently visit there. In that discussion I said I see an increase in the amount of unfavourable Jamaican women and their behaviour and as I have said here to Gmahognay that to me more than one or two is one or two too much. Also here in the UK I see more acts of nasty attitude women on display than before so generally to me its on an increase and the same goes for men.
Also I want to comment on what you said about not hearing white people bad talk their women in your company but you have to ask would they really do it infront of you. For example many Jamaicans will sit together and talk about the bad Jamaicans and the negative impact it has on the culture and country but they wouldn't necessarily do it infront of another nation because out of pride they don't want to see another country bad mouth their people. That is a common natural human reaction and if you want proof you will see here on this forum that a non jamaican will start a thread cussing Jamaicans and many will jump in and curse that person. But if a Jamaican and a respected one was to do it concerning the bad jamaicans in the barrel so to speak a discussion will take place. Like I said before how a question is posed will define what route the topic takes.
Personally I think that if the word Majority was taken out of this and other arguements I would be intrigued to see if the discussion took another route than the one it has. If I turned around and said nuff of those Jamaicans that come over here in the last ten years are bad rotton ones many here will agree with this statement even if in reality I couldn't possible know the behaviour of every Jamaican that has arrived here in the last ten years. But what happens here is that when something is bad it is bad and it sticks out like a sore thumb. I also attribute some of this to the negative elements of American culture that is rampant in Jamaica but that another topic altogether.
You concentrate on this type of topic when infact I have observed some topics on here where its not being tackled because a black women is saying it but if a black man said it all war would break out. I remember seeing a topic on blacknet in the past where women were posting good looking men and I noticed there was no light skin men amongst them. But if a man was to do the same and only post light skin women many women would make a comment I know I would, my first reaction is why isn't my complextion being represented.
Now back to some black women with attitude problems I am inclined to say its on the increase because I was raised in a time when there was an undiscussed code of conduct amongst us as a race and where ever you went if you saw another black face there was an undiscussed code of acknowledgement and respect for each other. For example in my days it was very rare to see two black cursing each other out in the company of their white friends but you see that today. In the past I would never see a black and white together both cussing or fighting a black person but I see that today. Today you see black children disrespecting their parents in public places furthermore disrespecting their parents even behind closed doors very rarely happened.
One of the most annoying things I am seeing more frequently is black people on tv and I say annoying because they are only on shows that show them in a nasty unfavourable light only the other day I saw a black family on a show where they need help how to control their unbehaved children under the age of 10, what madness is this. So this bad attitude is applicable to both black men and women.
So to conclude like I have said to you several times I will deal with each topic bearing in mind the topic heading. In the past I have gone in and simply said things like
1. yeah but what about black men with attitudes
2. yeah but what about jamaican women who don't prefer jamaican men
etc etc but you know what, either it is ignored or acknowledge with a simple yeah they do exist but or a full gender war breaks out and its repetitive and boring Sooofresh we need to stop these types of arguement they get us nowhere.
So if a mission you say to expose hypocrites on this site I think you should also include yourself and few others of your supporters as you and them have said things in the past that has made me question what is your true motive for standing on a platform to say you are defending all black women. I have never said I would defend all Black women because some of them are not worth defending in my opinion and I won't defend all black men.....but I will say something when ALL is tarnished under the same brush.
Gmahognay said she will say something when she detect an ulterior motive is at play and far enough but I could've said is that everyone that has responded displayed an ulterior motive if not why didn't you just deal with those and stick to the subject heading. But I didn't you know why because even if Gmahognay explained herself which she always does, if asked YOU will always jump back in pushing that angle back up along with others.
So its ironic that you say the things you do stating you are defending all black women when you display certain issues to have yourself in regards to some black women against other black women. Such as you do not feel that black women not born in Africa are Africans suggesting this term African American or African Caribbean should not be used. But you said in another thread that all black women in the west should help out more to the helpless black women in Africa and I asked you why? Surely you can see why I asked this based on what you said prior. You claim that you have a problem with black men that curse black women and go to other races but yet you said IF BLACK MEN DON'T FIX UP OR LEARN HOW TO COMPETE WITH THE WHITE MAN WE WILL GO TO WHITE MEN. You also mentioned that your sister married to a white man does not have this ego problem that black men have....what is that implying in itself that all black men have ego problems. So I tried to warn you previously about dragging other comments in here from other threads which you consently do forgetting your own previous words can also take you down as well. Even Mokie on trying to defend a topic on the word bytches slipped up by including the word yardies insulting Jamaicans in her counter arguement.
So some of you here standing on a platform saying you are defending ALL black women have some deep rooted issues within yourself that you need to rectify first. So like I said if you were implying me as a hypocrite then let me tell you when I see a women who I feel is worthy of defending then I will do so. But to be frank there are some black women and black men in this world and on this forum that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire let alone defend them, because they bring down and are a disgrace to the black race, which is why we must define All and some when creating topics.
Another thing I keep hearing on here is this self hate crap has it ever entered your mind that by me saying there is an increase of bad black men and women is due to the fact that I and my social circle may have a higher standard. It don't necessarily mean we have raised our standard but that the standard in general has deteriotated. Your notion may be to get with the programme and accept this lower standard however mines will be won't accept crap then so why should I accept crap now, surely I am entitled to my stance and surely because my stance is different than your it doesn't mean mine is non-existent does it.
I said it before sometimes I detect a hidden message of be all forgiving and accepting because they are black especially when excuses are presented to try and delude the fact that these type of people do exist. Like a comment that was previously made about the new generation of black men will be raised to respect their black Queen that was made under the poor assumption that
1. All black women are Queens
2. black women will automatically respect black men.
there is absolutely no garuantee of this just like there would not be if the above was reversed to reflect black men.
Another thing that is said frequently on this subject is to say there are bad black women you must be moving with these types of people. That again is another poor excuse and pathetic attempt because I do not have to be in the company of a peodophile to know they do exist. I do not have to be in the company of a murderer to know they do exist. I could twist that comment and say how do you know that nasty skanky obnoxious flea bag white women do exist do you move with them. NO!
Like I said I wonder what angle this subject would take if the word Majority was taken out and a black man said something along the lines of ........
.........Many times now I have seen a black lady that I like and have approached her to talk to her like a gentlemen and the response I have got was so nasty and disgusting I am wondering what is going on with some of our black sisters.
To be honest if another topic is created saying all black women are nasty and have an attitude problem if I don't ignore it I am going to enter it just to say to the poster well what are you going to do then in terms of a relationship. Flip the question back on them and lets see what their solution is.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:05 |
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efenjee wrote:
This is what I'm talking about Black Beauty, but I guess this is okay with you as you are named as one of the 20 percenters. lol!
Wow didnt know this was a competition...
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:06 |
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BB wrote
Which again comes to my point about what we as women value in other Black women will sometimes differ to what the Black man values.
Geez Ive always like your posts. What did I tell you about those pills your taking?
So many times female friends have said "Ive got a nice friend for you" and when you observe them for 5 mins you think is she serious.
As the old proverb also goes: "See me/ and live with me is two different things".
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:08 |
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@ Mansamusa: So you do not think the process of maturation has any effect on the behaviour or personality of a person? The statement I made was in relation to that process. If you do not think it does then of course if you see a boy you will think you can predict what kind of man he will become. To some degree we do stay the same, but a badly behaved child will not necessarily grow into a badly behaved adult, a stroppy teenager will not necessarily be a stroppy 40 yr old.
If you believe that the process of maturation does have an effect then you will agree that the way someone is at the age of 12, 13, or 14 may not be how they are at 22, 23, 24. Aside from the process we all go through whilst changing from childhood to adulthood, we also have to take into consideration the effect 'life experiences' have on people. Sometimes these experiences affect the personality, behaviour, outlook and mindset of a person to the extent that they become 'a different person.'
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:09 |
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efenjee wrote: Rockette, this person is quite obviously a lunatic so I doubt he will ever see how stupid what he is saying is. I think the part that really hurt him was when it was suggested that black men pick up the trashiest white women that white men reject. Even though it is true, it must be quite painful for those black men who are in that position to have to hear that from other people who they were perhaps hoping hadn't noticed.
I mean if you see the biggest, fattest, greasiest-looking, stinkest-looking, broken down white woman pushing a buggy, you can bet your bottom dollar that in that buggy sits a mixed race baby gurgling happily away. It's a game I have often played when bored sitting on public transport staring out the window. It has always been a source of amusement (mixed with disgust) for a lot of black women when we see these black men acting so obsequious towards these horribly unattractive white women, and for some of these men our reaction provokes anger. This is brilliantly illustrated by the post that Mercenary put up here. I just cannot for the life of me understand why people like that waste their time on a black forum putting down black women. Wouldn't that time be better spent over on a white forum praising white women?
LOL@ the part I've bolded. Brings to mind an episode I once saw on BET's comedy show, Comic View. There was this not at all attractive, overweight, white male comedian who started talking about IR dating. He said: "what's wrong with Black men? Ya'll pass up beautiful Black women to run after white women that EVEN I don't want. " All of the sisters in the audience were laughing hysterically, all of the Black men were sitting there looking like they wanted to go under their seats.
The funny thing about the truth of Black men chasing after white men's rejects, is that EVERYBODY can see it, except Black men. Black women know it and can see it, white women definitely know it and use it to their advantage, but white men know it, too, i'm sure that in some way, it feeds their sense of superiority that these Negroes covet their leftovers/rejects I don't think it even bothers most white men like it did, back in the day. I actually think that some of them find it comforting and reassuring. It's like, as long as a Black man is hooking up with white women, he's really not a threat to white men, which is in direct contradiction to conventional wisdom.
I remember back when Charles Barkley was still in the NBA,(he was married to a white woman at the time, may still be), anyway, he was and still is very outspoken. One day during a locker room interview, he started ranting about white media people and how unfair they are to Black players, sometimes. It went back and forth for a little while, Barkley finally blurted out "that's what I can't stand about u white people....". Guess what was the first thing that the white reporter, who he had been debating with,said? Yep, he said "What about your wife Charles? Does that go for her too?, I mean, aren't u married to a white person?" Needless to say there was a long and awkward silence. Regardless of the fact that Barkley may have been speaking the truth, his stance was totally undermined by his personal life. Those white reporters were just waiting to hit him over the head with that, and dismisss what he was saying. Their attitude was like hey Charles, once u marry a white woman, u can't say sh*t to us about white people, or racism anymore,lol.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:09 |
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efenjee wrote: Rockette, this person is quite obviously a lunatic so I doubt he will ever see how stupid what he is saying is. I think the part that really hurt him was when it was suggested that black men pick up the trashiest white women that white men reject. Even though it is true, it must be quite painful for those black men who are in that position to have to hear that from other people who they were perhaps hoping hadn't noticed.
I mean if you see the biggest, fattest, greasiest-looking, stinkest-looking, broken down white woman pushing a buggy, you can bet your bottom dollar that in that buggy sits a mixed race baby gurgling happily away. It's a game I have often played when bored sitting on public transport staring out the window. It has always been a source of amusement (mixed with disgust) for a lot of black women when we see these black men acting so obsequious towards these horribly unattractive white women, and for some of these men our reaction provokes anger. This is brilliantly illustrated by the post that Mercenary put up here. I just cannot for the life of me understand why people like that waste their time on a black forum putting down black women. Wouldn't that time be better spent over on a white forum praising white women?
LOL@ the part I've bolded. Brings to mind an episode I once saw on BET's comedy show, Comic View. There was this not at all attractive, overweight, white male comedian who started talking about IR dating. He said: "what's wrong with Black men? Ya'll pass up beautiful Black women to run after white women that EVEN I don't want. " All of the sisters in the audience were laughing hysterically, all of the Black men were sitting there looking like they wanted to go under their seats.
The funny thing about the truth of Black men chasing after white men's rejects, is that EVERYBODY can see it, except Black men. Black women know it and can see it, white women definitely know it and use it to their advantage, but white men know it, too, i'm sure that in some way, it feeds their sense of superiority that these Negroes covet their leftovers/rejects I don't think it even bothers most white men like it did, back in the day. I actually think that some of them find it comforting and reassuring. It's like, as long as a Black man is hooking up with white women, he's really not a threat to white men, which is in direct contradiction to conventional wisdom.
I remember back when Charles Barkley was still in the NBA,(he was married to a white woman at the time, may still be), anyway, he was and still is very outspoken. One day during a locker room interview, he started ranting about white media people and how unfair they are to Black players, sometimes. It went back and forth for a little while, Barkley finally blurted out "that's what I can't stand about u white people....". Guess what was the first thing that the white reporter, who he had been debating with,said? Yep, he said "What about your wife Charles? Does that go for her too?, I mean, aren't u married to a white person?" Needless to say there was a long and awkward silence. Regardless of the fact that Barkley may have been speaking the truth, his stance was totally undermined by his personal life. Those white reporters were just waiting to hit him over the head with that, and dismisss what he was saying. Their attitude was like hey Charles, once u marry a white woman, u can't say sh*t to us about white people, or racism anymore,lol.
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efenjee
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:15 |
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@ BlackBeauty: Why did you say that about not knowing it was a competition? When I said maybe you'd be okay with Mansamusa's post seeing as you were named as a 20 percenter, I just meant that maybe you would not find it offensive that he was writing off 80% of black females - because he stated that he wasn't including you in that number to be written off.
Even though I count myself as a decent black woman and have been told I am by people whose opinions I value far more highly than strangers on the internet, I am still offended if someone publicly writes off 80% of black women, but I predicted that you might not be offended based on what you have contributed to this thread. What has competition got to do with that?
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:21 |
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Efengee
@ Mansamusa: So you do not think the process of maturation has any effect on the behaviour or personality of a person? The statement I made was in relation to that process. If you do not think it does then of course if you see a boy you will think you can predict what kind of man he will become. To some degree we do stay the same, but a badly behaved child will not necessarily grow into a badly behaved adult, a stroppy teenager will not necessarily be a stroppy 40 yr old.
If you believe that the process of maturation does have an effect then you will agree that the way someone is at the age of 12, 13, or 14 may not be how they are at 22, 23, 24. Aside from the process we all go through whilst changing from childhood to adulthood, we also have to take into consideration the effect 'life experiences' have on people. Sometimes these experiences affect the personality, behaviour, outlook and mindset of a person to the extent that they become 'a different person.'
Yes there is exeperince. But I look at it this way. The majority of yabba mouth girl you see on the bus will always be loud/ foul mouthed yabba's. By 12,13,14 you are quite set in your personality and change only comes in the main through significant life altering experinces. If these young girls lives are the same/ values that have been handed down to them are not challenged/ and reonforced by their peers and elders etc.. why will they change. Most of thees girls older woman in their family are like that. They didnt learn the behaviour from the sky/ or just by watching TV alone. How many times do people say "he/she was a spoilt so and so from a child" and so on. I would say by 12/13/14 its too late to change ingrained behaviour. To clarify my earlier statement I will say show me the 7 year old and ill show you the man.
Look Im quite blessed to have friends from school that span maybe 15- 25 years. Almost all my bredrins are in that class as we all grew up in the same area and were in the same youth crew. And let me tell you. People do not change significantly. The loud mouths then are the same loud mouth's now. Myself included.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:26 |
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efenjee wrote: @ Mansamusa: So you do not think the process of maturation has any effect on the behaviour or personality of a person? The statement I made was in relation to that process. If you do not think it does then of course if you see a boy you will think you can predict what kind of man he will become. To some degree we do stay the same, but a badly behaved child will not necessarily grow into a badly behaved adult, a stroppy teenager will not necessarily be a stroppy 40 yr old.
If you believe that the process of maturation does have an effect then you will agree that the way someone is at the age of 12, 13, or 14 may not be how they are at 22, 23, 24. Aside from the process we all go through whilst changing from childhood to adulthood, we also have to take into consideration the effect 'life experiences' have on people. Sometimes these experiences affect the personality, behaviour, outlook and mindset of a person to the extent that they become 'a different person.'
@Efenjee and Mansamusa
Somehow I do not think that when people come on here and make such comments they are talking about children surely they are talking about adults so not much change seems to have taken place if we go by the notion of the naughty child.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:30 |
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I automatically thought this was about the younger generation(under 30) of black women ie my generation and not all black women, so my comments were directed at that group and my wishes were that they emulate their mothers in respecting and valuing themselves instead of reacting to a white societies perception of them.
This is about those with attitude... now people stop bringing in all these different tangents.
Sooofresh... you keep forgetting this title and thread was created by a woman and I doubt her intentions were to stereotype women.
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Mafdet
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:31 |
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mansamusa wrote:
Yes there is exeperince. But I look at it this way. The majority of yabba mouth girl you see on the bus will always be loud/ foul mouthed yabba's. By 12,13,14 you are quite set in your personality and change only comes in the main through significant life altering experinces. If these young girls lives are the same/ values that have been handed down to them are not challenged/ and reonforced by their peers and elders etc.. why will they change. Most of thees girls older woman in their family are like that. They didnt learn the behaviour from the sky/ or just by watching TV alone. How many times do people say "he/she was a spoilt so and so from a child" and so on. I would say by 12/13/14 its too late to change ingrained behaviour. To clarify my earlier statement I will say show me the 7 year old and ill show you the man.
Look Im quite blessed to have friends from school that span maybe 15- 25 years. Almost all my bredrins are in that class as we all grew up in the same area and were in the same youth crew. And let me tell you. People do not change significantly. The loud mouths then are the same loud mouth's now. Myself included.
@Mansa
I think it definately is a generation thing because I agree with you. My experience has shown me that the loud girl or boy in school if by the age of 16 when leaving school didn't change high % chance they would never change and continued to be loud adults. Only one exception when I saw a loud mouth guy years later after leaving school he wasn't loud but that was because the company he kept was louder than him LOL
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efenjee
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:35 |
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| @ Mafdet: The reason why I have mentioned black girls on the bus here is because, most of the time on this forum when people are talking about black female's negative traits the example of girls on the bus are used. I myself don't tend to do that because as I said I think a lot of those girls grow out of it and cannot accurately be used as a representation of black women. I have said elsewhere on this forum that it is not fair to use the example of children and while debating 'the problem with black women' elsewhere where it was suggested that black women are worse than white women when it comes to behaving badly in public, I asked the other poster to stop picking on kids and if they wanted to compare the behaviour of black and white females to look at the behaviour of ADULT black and white females. The other poster did not want to do this because his whole argument would have fallen apart. I agree that who you are is who you are but I don't agree that the behaviour you may display as an excitable 13 year old showing off in front of your friends is the same behaviour you will display as a grown woman of 30 or 40 years old. I'm sure there are some sad 40 year old black woman acting exactly the same as they did when they were 12 but I don't think there are many.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:40 |
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efenjee wrote: @ BlackBeauty: Why did you say that about not knowing it was a competition? When I said maybe you'd be okay with Mansamusa's post seeing as you were named as a 20 percenter, I just meant that maybe you would not find it offensive that he was writing off 80% of black females - because he stated that he wasn't including you in that number to be written off.
Im sure you did...
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:41 |
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| Plus, being loud is not to me the worst thing a person can be, so let's not get too bogged down with the notion that being loud is a major flaw for a person. If a person is loud, aggressive, vulgar, rude and insulting that is one thing but some people are just naturally loud which doesn't detract from them as a person if they are also pleasant, humorous, kind, caring, gentle and fun to be around. Same as being quiet is not always a good thing as many quiet people are also sneaky, deceitful, empty headed and boring to be around.
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Mafdet
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:44 |
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efenjee wrote: @ Mafdet: The reason why I have mentioned black girls on the bus here is because, most of the time on this forum when people are talking about black female's negative traits the example of girls on the bus are used. I myself don't tend to do that because as I said I think a lot of those girls grow out of it and cannot accurately be used as a representation of black women. I have said elsewhere on this forum that it is not fair to use the example of children and while debating 'the problem with black women' elsewhere where it was suggested that black women are worse than white women when it comes to behaving badly in public, I asked the other poster to stop picking on kids and if they wanted to compare the behaviour of black and white females to look at the behaviour of ADULT black and white females. The other poster did not want to do this because his whole argument would have fallen apart. I agree that who you are is who you are but I don't agree that the behaviour you may display as an excitable 13 year old showing off in front of your friends is the same behaviour you will display as a grown woman of 30 or 40 years old. I'm sure there are some sad 40 year old black woman acting exactly the same as they did when they were 12 but I don't think there are many.
@Efenjee
Point taken but to be honest this is what my experience has shown me
1. Not all bad children will grow up to be bad adults
2. But most bad adults were more likely to have been bad children
can you see the difference in what I am saying here.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:48 |
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efenjee wrote: Plus, being loud is not to me the worst thing a person can be, so let's not get too bogged down with the notion that being loud is a major flaw for a person. If a person is loud, aggressive, vulgar, rude and insulting that is one thing but some people are just naturally loud which doesn't detract from them as a person if they are also pleasant, humorous, kind, caring, gentle and fun to be around. Same as being quiet is not always a good thing as many quiet people are also sneaky, deceitful, empty headed and boring to be around.
@Efenjee
Please I beg you lets not go down that road again it was taken out of context on another thread even dispite the fact that it was clarified that when saying loud they are not talking about volume of ones voice. Because we all know that black people can come from cultures where being loud (as in volumen) is normal and acceptable nothing wrong with that at all. So lets nip that one in the bud right now before its pulled up again in this discussion.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:54 |
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Mafdet said:@Efenjee
Point taken but to be honest this is what my experience has shown me
1. Not all bad children will grow up to be bad adults
2. But most bad adults were more likely to have been bad children
can you see the difference in what I am saying here.
@ Mafdet: I take your point about children and adults and I was inclined to agree wholeheartedly when I first read it, but then I thought to myself that there are cases I know of (and you probably do too) where people have had very restrictive, sheltered childhoods. Where their parents have been very strict and inflexible and basically had the kids running like little robots who could not even DREAM of behaving badly much less doing it. A lot of children who grow up in strict religious households have that experience of childhood. What tends to happen is when those kids get a little taste of independence or freedom they go WILD and turn into what some would call 'bad adults'. In those cases you have 'good kids' turn into 'bad adults' so you end up with an adult who was never bad as a child but is making other bad adults who probably started out as pretty rude kids look like saints. When you're looking at likelihoods yes a bad child is more likely to be a bad adult and a good child is more likely to be a good adult but these things are never written in stone, which is why I tend not to judge too harshly children who have not finished developing mentally, emotionally and intellectually.
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 14:58 |
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Mafdet wrote: Sooofresh wrote:
why do black men cheat are they insecure or simply not satisfied
why do black men cheat? are they insecure ?
that is a stereotypical title..............yet several members asked * is it exclusive to black only* and YET everyone agreed that not all black men cheat, Kunjufu, Mafdet et all all sternly explained to the poster that you can *sterotype all black men as cheaters*.........
First of all is that a typo when you say Mafdet said you "can" stereotype all black men.
so I am slowly revelaing the hypocritical nature of members here who do BARK when it comes stereotyping black men............but when it comes stereotyping black women............then you want to debate.
Nopes, never, nada...............i will not let it happen...........
Now to include my name in the above paragraph and then go on to say you are revealing the hypocrticial nature of members I hope you are not implying me because I get pretty sick and tired of seeing post negatively sterotyping both black men and women and walking in to say you can't tarnish everyone in the same brush.
Furthermore Sooofresh I have been here on blacknet far longer than you and I have seen this topics crop up over and over again and to be perfectly honest I get tired of them but the only reason I entered this topic as I perceived it as a spin off from several others recently that I entered namely Jamaican men do not prefer Jamaican women topic.
Like this topic where I first entered to say the title is incorrect and should be changed. If you notice at the beginning of that topic I said the man is a fool and disfavourable women are found in every society globally but and this is a BIG but which I feel I am qualified to say considering I am Jamaican and lived there for a period of my life and frequently visit there. In that discussion I said I see an increase in the amount of unfavourable Jamaican women and their behaviour and as I have said here to Gmahognay that to me more than one or two is one or two too much. Also here in the UK I see more acts of nasty attitude women on display than before so generally to me its on an increase and the same goes for men.
Also I want to comment on what you said about not hearing white people bad talk their women in your company but you have to ask would they really do it infront of you. For example many Jamaicans will sit together and talk about the bad Jamaicans and the negative impact it has on the culture and country but they wouldn't necessarily do it infront of another nation because out of pride they don't want to see another country bad mouth their people. That is a common natural human reaction and if you want proof you will see here on this forum that a non jamaican will start a thread cussing Jamaicans and many will jump in and curse that person. But if a Jamaican and a respected one was to do it concerning the bad jamaicans in the barrel so to speak a discussion will take place. Like I said before how a question is posed will define what route the topic takes.
Personally I think that if the word Majority was taken out of this and other arguements I would be intrigued to see if the discussion took another route than the one it has. If I turned around and said nuff of those Jamaicans that come over here in the last ten years are bad rotton ones many here will agree with this statement even if in reality I couldn't possible know the behaviour of every Jamaican that has arrived here in the last ten years. But what happens here is that when something is bad it is bad and it sticks out like a sore thumb. I also attribute some of this to the negative elements of American culture that is rampant in Jamaica but that another topic altogether.
You concentrate on this type of topic when infact I have observed some topics on here where its not being tackled because a black women is saying it but if a black man said it all war would break out. I remember seeing a topic on blacknet in the past where women were posting good looking men and I noticed there was no light skin men amongst them. But if a man was to do the same and only post light skin women many women would make a comment I know I would, my first reaction is why isn't my complextion being represented.
Now back to some black women with attitude problems I am inclined to say its on the increase because I was raised in a time when there was an undiscussed code of conduct amongst us as a race and where ever you went if you saw another black face there was an undiscussed code of acknowledgement and respect for each other. For example in my days it was very rare to see two black cursing each other out in the company of their white friends but you see that today. In the past I would never see a black and white together both cussing or fighting a black person but I see that today. Today you see black children disrespecting their parents in public places furthermore disrespecting their parents even behind closed doors very rarely happened.
One of the most annoying things I am seeing more frequently is black people on tv and I say annoying because they are only on shows that show them in a nasty unfavourable light only the other day I saw a black family on a show where they need help how to control their unbehaved children under the age of 10, what madness is this. So this bad attitude is applicable to both black men and women.
So to conclude like I have said to you several times I will deal with each topic bearing in mind the topic heading. In the past I have gone in and simply said things like
1. yeah but what about black men with attitudes
2. yeah but what about jamaican women who don't prefer jamaican men
etc etc but you know what, either it is ignored or acknowledge with a simple yeah they do exist but or a full gender war breaks out and its repetitive and boring Sooofresh we need to stop these types of arguement they get us nowhere.
So if a mission you say to expose hypocrites on this site I think you should also include yourself and few others of your supporters as you and them have said things in the past that has made me question what is your true motive for standing on a platform to say you are defending all black women. I have never said I would defend all Black women because some of them are not worth defending in my opinion and I won't defend all black men.....but I will say something when ALL is tarnished under the same brush.
Gmahognay said she will say something when she detect an ulterior motive is at play and far enough but I could've said is that everyone that has responded displayed an ulterior motive if not why didn't you just deal with those and stick to the subject heading. But I didn't you know why because even if Gmahognay explained herself which she always does, if asked YOU will always jump back in pushing that angle back up along with others.
So its ironic that you say the things you do stating you are defending all black women when you display certain issues to have yourself in regards to some black women against other black women. Such as you do not feel that black women not born in Africa are Africans suggesting this term African American or African Caribbean should not be used. But you said in another thread that all black women in the west should help out more to the helpless black women in Africa and I asked you why? Surely you can see why I asked this based on what you said prior. You claim that you have a problem with black men that curse black women and go to other races but yet you said IF BLACK MEN DON'T FIX UP OR LEARN HOW TO COMPETE WITH THE WHITE MAN WE WILL GO TO WHITE MEN. You also mentioned that your sister married to a white man does not have this ego problem that black men have....what is that implying in itself that all black men have ego problems. So I tried to warn you previously about dragging other comments in here from other threads which you consently do forgetting your own previous words can also take you down as well. Even Mokie on trying to defend a topic on the word bytches slipped up by including the word yardies insulting Jamaicans in her counter arguement.
So some of you here standing on a platform saying you are defending ALL black women have some deep rooted issues within yourself that you need to rectify first. So like I said if you were implying me as a hypocrite then let me tell you when I see a women who I feel is worthy of defending then I will do so. But to be frank there are some black women and black men in this world and on this forum that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire let alone defend them, because they bring down and are a disgrace to the black race, which is why we must define All and some when creating topics.
Another thing I keep hearing on here is this self hate crap has it ever entered your mind that by me saying there is an increase of bad black men and women is due to the fact that I and my social circle may have a higher standard. It don't necessarily mean we have raised our standard but that the standard in general has deteriotated. Your notion may be to get with the programme and accept this lower standard however mines will be won't accept crap then so why should I accept crap now, surely I am entitled to my stance and surely because my stance is different than your it doesn't mean mine is non-existent does it.
I said it before sometimes I detect a hidden message of be all forgiving and accepting because they are black especially when excuses are presented to try and delude the fact that these type of people do exist. Like a comment that was previously made about the new generation of black men will be raised to respect their black Queen that was made under the poor assumption that
1. All black women are Queens
2. black women will automatically respect black men.
there is absolutely no garuantee of this just like there would not be if the above was reversed to reflect black men.
Another thing that is said frequently on this subject is to say there are bad black women you must be moving with these types of people. That again is another poor excuse and pathetic attempt because I do not have to be in the company of a peodophile to know they do exist. I do not have to be in the company of a murderer to know they do exist. I could twist that comment and say how do you know that nasty skanky obnoxious flea bag white women do exist do you move with them. NO!
Like I said I wonder what angle this subject would take if the word Majority was taken out and a black man said something along the lines of ........
.........Many times now I have seen a black lady that I like and have approached her to talk to her like a gentlemen and the response I have got was so nasty and disgusting I am wondering what is going on with some of our black sisters.
To be honest if another topic is created saying all black women are nasty and have an attitude problem if I don't ignore it I am going to enter it just to say to the poster well what are you going to do then in terms of a relationship. Flip the question back on them and lets see what their solution is.
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efenjee
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 15:03 |
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Mafdet wrote: efenjee wrote: Plus, being loud is not to me the worst thing a person can be, so let's not get too bogged down with the notion that being loud is a major flaw for a person. If a person is loud, aggressive, vulgar, rude and insulting that is one thing but some people are just naturally loud which doesn't detract from them as a person if they are also pleasant, humorous, kind, caring, gentle and fun to be around. Same as being quiet is not always a good thing as many quiet people are also sneaky, deceitful, empty headed and boring to be around.
@Efenjee
Please I beg you lets not go down that road again it was taken out of context on another thread even dispite the fact that it was clarified that when saying loud they are not talking about volume of ones voice. Because we all know that black people can come from cultures where being loud (as in volumen) is normal and acceptable nothing wrong with that at all. So lets nip that one in the bud right now before its pulled up again in this discussion.
I know what you're saying, that's why I made a point of saying that being loud is not necessarily a major flaw in someone. The point I was trying to make is that sometimes these annoying schoolgirls which people often cite as displaying 'typical black female behaviour' are annoying simply because they are loud and not because of anything they are saying or doing. I was once unfortunate enough to be on a bus with a load of them who were giving me a headache and I was pissed off but all they were going on about was some upcoming exams and they all had books out shouting out the answers and I remember the subject was science of all things. I was thinking, "is all the shouting really necessary?? I don't remember getting so excited about science in my schooldays." Believe me I was vex cos I really did not need that amount of noise in my head. I was shocked to see when they got off the bus that they were with adults who I think could have been teachers. I believe they should have been told to hold down the noise but I wouldn't class those girls as the worst example of black womanhood simply because they were making noise, if they had been swearing and talking vulgar that would have been different.
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safetyblitz
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Posted: Friday August 5th, 2005 15:24 |
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I guess I should pay attention to the attitudes of black women. Usually if I see even the ladies working fast food who are sometimes pissed off and ask me what I am looking at, I can tell their pretty eyes or just tell 'em it is going to get better and they just change up on how they approach me from there on and they will damned near give me the whole menu. LOL Their frowns turn to smiles heck and I am given the whole menu, in stores a discount price. LOL Of course the next person in line get their attitude, but if you know how to deal with black women what's the problem?
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