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Kareem
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Posted: Monday August 25th, 2003 05:29 |
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Is White Skin a Curse?
I'm SURE the ancients didn't look down upon white skin as some sort of curse.
So what does the 5th Chapter in 2nd Kings mean when it said.......
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1 Now Naaman, captain of the host of the king of Syria, was a great man with his master, and honourable, because by him the LORD had given deliverance unto Syria: he was also a mighty man in valour, but he was a leper.
2 And the Syrians had gone out by companies, and had brought away captive out of the land of Israel a little maid; and she waited on Naaman's wife.
3 And she said unto her mistress, Would God my lord were with the prophet that is in Samaria! for he would recover him of his leprosy.
4 And one went in, and told his lord, saying, Thus and thus said the maid that is of the land of Israel.
5 And the king of Syria said, Go to, go, and I will send a letter unto the king of Israel. And he departed, and took with him ten talents of silver, and six thousand pieces of gold, and ten changes of raiment.
6 And he brought the letter to the king of Israel, saying, Now when this letter is come unto thee, behold, I have therewith sent Naaman my servant to thee, that thou mayest recover him of his leprosy.
7 And it came to pass, when the king of Israel had read the letter, that he rent his clothes, and said, Am I God, to kill and to make alive, that this man doth send unto me to recover a man of his leprosy? wherefore consider, I pray you, and see how he seeketh a quarrel against me.
8 And it was so, when Elisha the man of God had heard that the king of Israel had rent his clothes, that he sent to the king, saying, Wherefore hast thou rent thy clothes? let him come now to me, and he shall know that there is a prophet in Israel.
9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha.
10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
11 But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
13 And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
14 Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.
15 And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
16 But he said, As the LORD liveth, before whom I stand, I will receive none. And he urged him to take it; but he refused.
17 And Naaman said, Shall there not then, I pray thee, be given to thy servant two mules' burden of earth? for thy servant will henceforth offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice unto other gods, but unto the LORD.
18 In this thing the LORD pardon thy servant, that when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the LORD pardon thy servant in this thing.
19 And he said unto him, Go in peace. So he departed from him a little way.
20 But Gehazi, the servant of Elisha the man of God, said, Behold, my master hath spared Naaman this Syrian, in not receiving at his hands that which he brought: but, as the LORD liveth, I will run after him, and take somewhat of him.
21 So Gehazi followed after Naaman. And when Naaman saw him running after him, he lighted down from the chariot to meet him, and said, Is all well?
22 And he said, All is well. My master hath sent me, saying, Behold, even now there be come to me from mount Ephraim two young men of the sons of the prophets: give them, I pray thee, a talent of silver, and two changes of garments.
23 And Naaman said, Be content, take two talents. And he urged him, and bound two talents of silver in two bags, with two changes of garments, and laid them upon two of his servants; and they bare them before him.
24 And when he came to the tower, he took them from their hand, and bestowed them in the house: and he let the men go, and they departed.
25 But he went in, and stood before his master. And Elisha said unto him, Whence comest thou, Gehazi? And he said, Thy servant went no whither.
26 And he said unto him, Went not mine heart with thee, when the man turned again from his chariot to meet thee? Is it a time to receive money, and to receive garments, and oliveyards, and vineyards, and sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and maidservants?
27 The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as WHITE AS SNOW.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday August 25th, 2003 06:30 |
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[font="" ? MS? Trebuchet?]Ok I’[font="" ? MS? Trebuchet?]m gonna bite on this…K[font="" ? MS? Trebuchet?]areem let me just say for a moment that you’[font="" ? MS? Trebuchet?]re right..how does this help me,..Africans in general or for that matter the planet?
[font="" ? MS? Trebuchet?]
Last edited on Saturday September 6th, 2003 03:54 by Kunjufu
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Kareem
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Posted: Wednesday August 27th, 2003 06:22 |
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Kunjufu:
Allow me to carry on a little bit......
It's not a matter of whether "I'M" right or wrong...it's a matter of do the Christians believe their own bible.
There are plenty of other scriptures that call white skin a curse.
The purpose it serves is to BOOST our self-esteem.
One of the things white Christian colonists and slave-drivers did was use religion in general and BIBLICAL SCRIPTURE in particular to justify their enslavement and mistreatment of us. They told us that we were the children of Cain, Canaan, Satan and everything else but a Child of God.
THIS...dear Watson...is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that white skin was looked upon negatively or even as a CURSE in the ancient world.
So ofter black people will readily accept that we are a cursed people and that black skin was some type of curse although there NEVER WAS any biblical truth to this allegation.
I just showed that the opposite is true so any "healthy thinking" and "right minded" individual should be over joyed that this chapter was found and they should be among the first to promote it and take it to their ministers.
That's what I would do if I was a Christian instead of eating a ham-sandwich, scroll through it, grin and shake my head like a fool, and move on.
Man, do you know how many white people constantly search the bible to find evidence and justification for their superiority? 
Do you know what THEY'D do if they found a scripture like that about US and how BLACK SKIN was made a curse?
Ooooo MAN...we wouldn't hear the end of it!
Not only THAT, but people other than white would accept it as God's will that white people are superior and blacks are cursed.
But I kicked THIS chapter around a few other sites and dumb negros ignored it and brushed it off like it didn't mean anything.
Now if black people don't take hold to THIS...
If black people ignore THIS....
If Negros (after believing all that other mess about Canaanites and Jesus was white), don't think THIS chapter is important for their psychological well being and esteem...
Then all I can say is we're MEANT to be slaves...no amount of education will help us. 
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday August 27th, 2003 06:48 |
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Kareem: you said..'The purpose it serves is to BOOST our self-esteem.'
I totally understand your perspective however, my view is this..maybe its time we (AFRICANS) start by stop trying to build ourselves up by tearing down Europeans and anyone else that comes into our crosshairs...
Do I as an African need to boost by self esteem.answer no!!!
Is my culture or should my culture centre on the need to demigrate others ...Answer an emphatic no!!!
As far as I'm concern, it is a total contradiction to replace white supremacy with black supremacy...Whats the point in that? Its seriously time for Africans in the disaporra and in particular in England to stop relying on these tactics as a cheap route to race or national pride..its a total false economy and doesn't in my view help us to move forward..
I agree with you that we should take hold of this information, but i do not agree that we should try to out do the oppressor at oppression won't work can't work they far too good at it....nah sah!!
Unity in my view is created and maintained by understanding our own history, ourselves and glorifying in those who strive to take us forward...putting Europeans and their works in the centre our lives is what makes us slaves and keeps us as slaves..
.
Last edited on Saturday September 6th, 2003 03:54 by Kunjufu
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Kareem
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Posted: Wednesday August 27th, 2003 09:05 |
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Kunjufu:
Maybe YOU don't need a self esteem boost but so many black folk all around the world do.
Everyone can't be a well educated "Kunjufu"!
Especially when you have so many black people from bad enviroments like crime and poverty and ignorance...you have to give the people an EXTRA boost to jump start them.
"As far as I'm concern, it is a total contradiction to replace white supremacy with black supremacy...Whats the point in that? Its seriously time for Africans in the disaporra and in particular in England to stop relying on these tactics as a cheap route to race or national pride..its a total false economy and doesn't in my view help us to move forward.. "
Listen my man, have you ever seen a tire get balanced?
Ever seen scales balance each other off?
In order to gain equality or ATTEMPT to, you must come with an opposite but EQUAL force to counter effect the opposing force. If whites claim SUPERIORITY you can't come claiming EQUALITY and expect to defeat their ideology in the minds of our people.
At best, you'll have a situation like you have now where SOME of our people will hink we're equal but MOST will lean more on the side of the WHITE SUPREMIST.
Why?
Simply because he's laid out more knowledge and evidence of his superiority while you just gave evidence of "equality".
No, you have to come with a SUPERIORITY complex and when the 2 are observed some with go with HIM others with YOU but the GENERAL POPULATION will be so influenced by both that they at the very least accept some superiority of both BLACK AND WHITE and recon the 2 equal.
That's why so many were and are attracted to groups like the Panthers and the Nation of Islam...because unlike most of the past groups they were among the first to claim SUPERIORITY rather than simple equality.
See what I'm saying?
You can't counter effect an acid with a neutral....at the most you'll just make it LESS acidic but it'll still be "acidic" to a certain degree.
You need a BASE (it's opposite) and ENOUGH OF IT to make the solution neutral.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Wednesday August 27th, 2003 09:29 |
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Kareem: sorry but I really do not believe that black people (who ever they maybe) need a self esteem booster and I damn sure they don't need to put the boot into others in order to feel good about themselves..that is a nonsense..
I also fail to see how putting Europeans into the centre of ones thinking would some how improve the lot or the self esteem of Africans living either in poverty, in areas of high crimes or could allievate ignorance..sorry really don't see the conection there...perhaps they might be better served if they had opportunity to get a job, shether, educationm at least that would be tangible instead of good intention and a false premise...
I also really cannot see how an innanimate objects has got to do with life or our people, absolutely no correlation, I would suggest that in order to achieve freedom as you put it.. one does no mimick the behaviour of the oppressor. What you do is learn from ourselves understand ourselves and then adopt our own strategies and not theirs and call it 'black'...that to me is a contradiction..I nor do I imagine Africans aspire to be a black version of white racist..
I admire the 'black panther' movement and I respect the NOI..however 'superiority' did not protect the Black panther from being inflitrated by white women or drugs did it....Nor did it stop the NOI from self destructing on itself..Why..because trying to steal 'his masters clothes'..again this has been tried all over africa to devastrating effects..NOT!!
If you need a base I suggest that it begins with 'self' extends to culture and encompasses our lands and not this false notion of trying to emulate Europeans in their foolishness...
Last edited on Saturday September 6th, 2003 03:55 by Kunjufu
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savage om
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Posted: Thursday August 28th, 2003 21:57 |
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Hehe- so I guess this is a religious debate, and not a creation vs evolution debate. I guess if humans were designed vs adapted to local geography, then you have a point.
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Kareem
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Posted: Friday August 29th, 2003 23:04 |
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Kunjufu:
sorry but I really do not believe that black people (who ever they maybe) need a self esteem booster
YOU DON'T THING BLACK PEOPLE NEED A SELF ESTEEM BOOST?
The same people who've used skin lightening creams and straightened their hair to look like their oppressors?
The same people who suffer disproportionaly from broken homes and families?
The same people who were taught for centuries that their ONLY reason for existance was for slavery and servitude?
If THESE people don't need a self-esteem boost then all the black psychologists should be charged with fraud and treated for mass hysteria!!
also fail to see how putting Europeans into the centre of ones thinking would some how improve the lot or the self esteem of Africans living either in poverty, in areas of high crimes or could allievate ignorance..
It wouldn't, who suggested THAT should be done?
I also really cannot see how an innanimate objects has got to do with life or our people, absolutely no correlation,
But....Kunjufu.....
Do you understand that to OFFSET white supremacy you need an equal and opposite force to counter effect the the damage done by centuries of brainwashing?
Didn't Lauryn Hill tell us to REVERSE the hypnosis?
Think of the White Supremacy that the world's been recieving for centuries as an acid.
To simply say that white people aren't superior and we're all equal is like pouring neutral water on the acid.
Now...you may have WEAKENED the acid so that it'll do less damage to the minds of the people but it's stil acidic...they STILL believe to some degree that white people are Superior EVEN if they won't openly admit it.
You can continue to pour the neutral waters of "equality" and Rodney King's "Caint we all git aloan"...forever but it'll STILL be on the acidic Ph scale.
The ONLY way to effectively neutralize corosive "acid" white supremacy is to add the OPPOSITE of it which is the "base" of black supremacy!
That immediately kills the acidic nature and enough black supremacy will REVERSE the pH level and influence the minds of the world to believe that Black in superior.
It's already being done in the United States to some degree..I just don't like what we're being labeled as superior IN.
Man, stop talking about stealing "massa's" clothes and all that mess , ain't nobody talking abou playing Mr.Dress up!
We're trying to create a civilized world in OUR favor...we aren't gonna get that going BACK to "African" values.
"AFRICAN" value were what we were practicing when they took advantage of us. Now why would I repeat the same silly mistakes that got me caught up the FIRST time?
p.s.How many times can a brutha post on here without registering?
Savage:
Humans WERE designed because if we were made to ADAPT to our enviroment then all humans would STILL be alive adapting and surviving.
Death would have been factored-out in ONE generation.
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Posted: Saturday August 30th, 2003 05:11 |
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Kareem wrote:
YOU DON'T THING BLACK PEOPLE NEED A SELF ESTEEM BOOST?
The same people who've used skin lightening creams and straightened their hair to look like their oppressors?
The same people who suffer disproportionaly from broken homes and families?
The same people who were taught for centuries that their ONLY reason for existance was for slavery and servitude?
If THESE people don't need a self-esteem boost then all the black psychologists should be charged with fraud and treated for mass hysteria!!
Kareem: Are you trying seriously saying that 'black' people need a boost in self esteem based on these four flimsy indicators..pleeease nice try but that is really silly and i would add an insult to Africans everywhere..
forgive me but your analysis is flawed..go back to the drawing board and rewind...then ask yourself why is it that people aspire to be like 'masser'... Is is because they want to be them or is it because they want the kudos and money that comes with associating with white... if the later is the case is that an issue of self esteem or is it the power of capitalism..? You can't counter Capitalism with counter rhetoric..
The fact is Kareem everytime you or people like you suggest or agitate that we copy and emulate the Europeans and their oppresive behaviour to counter their foolishness..you put them and their idealogy at the centre of your being.. my point here is simple you can't beat the devil at his own game..he is the devil for damn good reason...
So when say:
But....Kunjufu.....
Do you understand that to OFFSET white supremacy you need an equal and opposite force to counter effect the the damage done by centuries of brainwashing?
This is a perfect example of back to front thinking I'm talking about..you cannot counter foolishness wid foolishness..it doesn't work, please give an example where this is the case...How pray tell can one de-brainwash by adopting the EXACT same systems as the oppressor to counter their actions no...this is a nonsense..
Kunjufu....African heart African mind
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Posted: Sunday August 31st, 2003 04:28 |
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@Savage om
Is that you Gabba *lol*
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Posted: Sunday August 31st, 2003 07:28 |
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Last edited on Wednesday September 3rd, 2003 10:35 by Raven
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Posted: Sunday August 31st, 2003 09:45 |
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@justavoice
Nope, I'm new.
Gabba? Is that another chatter here? What does Gabba do/say that my comment reminds you of?
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Posted: Saturday September 6th, 2003 03:44 |
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 Kareem ,there you are my yankie cousin. U been hiding in this trench, fighting the usual rearguard action. Come on dear friend. Too much emphasis on what white people think, or do. Have to agree with brother Kunjufu down the line here.
Some people may need a lot of things, which is not a remedy for national development. I suggest however what we need is proper education, by seeing practical and effective leadership, on any of the major issues affecting us, and not on wasting breathe on those people. Who cares what white skins represents? We know what ever it represents it ain't generally good. U know my view, interesting debate topic or not, it is not what the most needy or damaged people in our group/community need which is an indicator of growth and movement. Getting the more concious elements to stop talking and getting off their arse and acting like men, I suggest is a higher order consideration.
Same token, I suggest the majority of people did not join the Panthers et al, because it made them feel superior[many black people don't have to join anything to feel superior to white people] but because it made them feel more powerful, more organised, or allowed them to find themselves,or excercise and realise their individual talents, or the simple realisation that power requires belonging to groups or organiations. Try to stop systematic police brutality by yourself, and see how far you get. Groups, organisations, networks etc and power are synonomous.
On a little factual note the Black Panthers were only nationalist for a couple of years, before they started to talk hippie talk and whatever Newton called that nonsense they took on. I will concede you will find some people who will have such views, but not from my experience not many and not in positions of power. The Dr Khalid Muhammads of this world are quite rare.
By the way Kunjufu, there is no direct relationship between the ability to infiltrate and disrupt an organisation, like the Panthers, and its professed ideology-with a couple of exceptions. That is a product of the experience and sophistication, astuteness of its leadership, especially in the area of security and related matters.
Fredblack
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Posted: Saturday September 6th, 2003 04:04 |
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Fredblack wrote:
By the way Kunjufu, there is no direct relationship between the ability to infiltrate and disrupt an organisation, like the Panthers, and its professed ideology-with a couple of exceptions. That is a product of the experience and sophistication, astuteness of its leadership, especially in the area of security and related matters.
Thanks FredBlack, I stand corrected,
 on a totally different matter did you ever see the video tape of the debate between Khalid Muhammed and the Attorney Bryan (he who argued that Jesus was 'white'.) That has got to be a master class of how to take down a fool piece by piece....
Last edited on Saturday September 6th, 2003 04:05 by Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday September 7th, 2003 23:16 |
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 Kunjufu, greetings bro. On the issue of Dr Khalid Mohammed. No, I did not see the interview mentioned and too be honest, much of the stuff which is publicly available about the brother I did not follow, or obtain[too busy to be honest bro]. I did catch some important stuff eg his personal beef with the Jews, when it spilled out into the public domain.
My views on Dr Khalid came from meeting him personally, and having long discussions with him, when he came here with the National Rep of the NOI, after Farrahkan balls up big time with his trip in 1987. The organisers needed to speak to someone, and they were brought to meet me. Couldn't help them, because anybody who is serious and experience in this game, knows you make one mistake and the moment/opportuntity is lost and I was right. Up to this day, Farrahkan has never been allowed to put his foot here and it was his fault.
But it did not surprise me when Khalid got himself in trouble, and the inept way it was handled by Farrahkan. Don't get me wrong, love the brothers[big respect to Dr Khalid, serious soliier/Commander, leader of men] but think Farrakhan lacked judgement in criticial instances.
What I found frigthening, is given the US experience, you should never have to tell brothers from that country how the enemey operates; especially after COINTELPRO, which was a domenstic counter intelligence war against black people, Farrakhan can make such basic mistakes?. The black man needs to control his mouth at times.
It is perhaps interesting, that the only security and defense organisation who the FBI etc were not able to infiltrate and destroy, were the Deacons for Defense, because nobody knows who they are, as they kept their mouths shut. Most of them are probably dead, or elder grandfathers now living peaceful lives, having achieved their objective of breaking the Klan in their locality.
But to be fair to Khalid, the whole Jewish nonsense that those guys used to be obbessed with, was started by Farrahkan, and when it was convienient, eg too hot, caused by his own bumbling turned on Khalid, who was a bit 'ears hard' in remembering the new line, conveiniently and quickly introduced, [as part of a rear-guard, back- tracking action]. It was ugly and did Farrakhan no credit and further raised question marks amongst serious and expeirenced solidiers. No Commander worth the name, will treat one of his Captains like that in public, and to do so is an act of a fool.
But this fascination with white skin, and searching out signs and symbols that prove white people this or that is a diversion of energy, and irrelevence to mature political and other conciousness. Our enemies are our enemies, shown by their consistent action and behaviour, and that includes nuff black folk; and it makes no sense, other than religious doctrinal reasons to focus and highlight Jews in that manner and aggravting them, and diverting strategic and tactical energy. Obesseion and demonisation,gets in the way of serious business.
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Posted: Monday September 8th, 2003 00:38 |
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Fredblack wrote:
But this fascination with white skin, and searching out signs and symbols that prove white people this or that is a diversion of energy, and irrelevence to mature political and other conciousness. Our enemies are our enemies, shown by their consistent action and behaviour, and that includes nuff black folk; and it makes no sense, other than religious doctrinal reasons to focus and highlight Jews in that manner and aggravting them, and diverting strategic and tactical energy. Obesseion and demonisation,gets in the way of serious business.
 Fred I couldn't agree more, I think it is a very serious contradiction to imagine that everything or everyone black is automatically good..and anyone white is 'bad'... You're right on point to highlight that deeds not words should be the measure of a mans principles.. Whichi partly why I have a problem with this thread..yes the European dominated capitalist structure is our natural enemy, but to reduce arguments and energy to name calling and stereotypes does a serious disservice not to mention undermines our ability to see the real picture..
On the point of NOI and Farrakhan, I remember the fiasco surrounding the jewish backlash to Khalid, although being in England we didn't get the full SP, so it is interesting to read your take on the matter. I have say that the situation seemed to be a rehash of Eijah (spelling) muhammed and Malcolm debarcleway back in the sixties or did i get it wrong?
Anyway you comments on the NOI are not exactly a total surprise, yes I respect the work they do..but I have always felt that Farrakhan and the NOI in American has two many contradictions to reconcile... for instance this insistance of a 'black homeland within the continent of America is seriously stupid.. especially what Africa already exsists.. Having met and organised with the NOI in the 10,000 man march in London..(btw the NOI don't march ever apparently.) they came across as THE most arrongant with a capital A people i have ever met..(and that is NOT in this context a positive.)
Plus the NOI in the UK behaves in a manner that presupposes that no others Black organisation exists, an issue which i know can and does rub people up the wrong way. especially when they act as the normally do unilaterally.
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Posted: Monday September 8th, 2003 21:02 |
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Kunjufu. Absolutely right, the Khalid/Farrahkan issue was a complete rehash of the Malcolm/Elijah scenario and why it reflects so poorly on Farrahkan and he is not the only one who makes such basic mistakes.
We talk about a lot of things, like learning the lesssons of history,but when our backs are in the corner and where men are called to distinguish themselves, in terms of their character and wisdom, we fail abbysmally again and again, because we have not internalised the lessons, where they become second nature.
Regarding the NOI here, you are right about thier immaturity, but I think it reflects our broader structural and cultural dislocation and we can see it when we talk about youth or young people in this country and their ignorance of anything that took place ten years ago. Don't believe me go to any College and universtiy and make a reference in that time frame and most students will be looking at you with a blank expression.
In most healthy communities there is inter-generational learning, but in our situation there is dislocation. Consequently, we get organisations or individuals who emerge and due to their ignorance go on to make basic mistake after another, becaues they do not have the education, training or background which is crucial to developing and producing leaders of quality. So as I have said on another thread to do with black British culture, you have those who are not qualified purporting to be shaping culture.
It is no coincidence, that I was also involved in the 10, 000 Man March at the early planning stages. Again, I was sought out, by some younger brothers who I had worked with on something else. They needed someone with experience of large scale planning and coordination and stuff. When I got there what I observed reinforced my initial reluctance to being involved. It was embarrassing and the inexperience and ignorance and arrogance was screaming loudly.
Basic things brother. Before you want be a general, you need to be a tried and tested and trusted sergeant in order to have learnt and demonstrate the things needed to operate at a higher level. What was worse, the people representing the Nation were not of a particularly high quality and could not and refused to answer basic questions people were reasonably asking. Then like amatuers wanted to have big theological and ideological debates with people present, while I sat silently trembling.
But what did it for me was the lack of integrity of the organisers, because they refused to answer straight questions about who was behind the initiative, trying to give the impression it was locally driven thing and independent, when it was not, which forced me to express some blunt words. NO man worth a cent is going to fight or committ themselves to anything which is characterised by lack of integrity, never mind lack of intelligence and wisdom.
So after four meetings or so, I did not return, because I had more important things to do. But the type of people who attended the meetings reinforced to me the lack of experience which characterised the whole thing. Anyone with serious experience in the British Black Power/Pan African movement would know there are a lot of very experience brotheres who while no longer have high profile are vetrands who they should have consulted and picked their brains.
Even though brothers who led and had high profile position throughout the 1980's are part of the problem, because they did not do enough to make sure thier contribution was well known,but also that is the way the system works, to make sure that it quickly sidelines those kind of brothers, make sure their work is not well known etc, but any leader or organisation worth the name would get off its arse to do the research and find out about the business they are in, before rushing to claim things or be as pressumptious and unwise like too many of our NOI brothers. Then off course they then split amongst themselves with Leo X and his crew going here and others there. All predictable and preventable stuff.
Do people believe Al Quaeda, and them boys, do not learn important lessons; or people like Lenin, or Garvey/Malcolm did not make it their business to study what came before them, to bring them to this point. We are a inferior people for real, for the most part and have happily become so, if we take or study our organisational and social behaviour,which is unthinking and not committed to serious learning.
What is so foolish, as one experienced solider said to me the other day, the most important group in this country are those born in the 1960s era, because they alone straddle the old and new culture and critical points of history/struggle and everybody else falls in between; and our seniors who brought us into the movement are too detached. Almost all of them were born in the Caribbean and Africa, and came here in their teens. Those of us who were not born here, came here as toddlers. So we have into many cases kids who are operating in a void, involving themselves in serious stuff, only to do harm unknowingly. Successful movements are ones which build on the experience and positive lessons from the past.
In fact what I often find infuriating, though understandable given the above[hence the length of my postings] and we can see this on the Forum everyday is that much of the things which preocuppy us, are things that have been answered in depth and clearly evidenced.For example, I think Dilliger makes an observation about the black middle class, as I do in my posting of black people and our ambitions in setting up businesses etc.
Equal opportunities, and policies of inclusion as any good student of political science, or anyone who has read Machievelli, which we was required reading for political science undergraudates, in my day, is part of a system of governance, for controlling and asborbing adversaries and was responsible for crippling the Black Power and progressive forces in this country. The white man just open the doors on low paying jobs, and others they no longer wanted, or created special non jobs, threw millions in public money, which was nothing in real terms. But to hungry blacks BIG MONEY and got us dependent on the system, mulitply division and all kinds of friction.
During the 1970's the real death blow, the damage even today most people do not realise, changed our basic notion of social organisation and family structure and respective notions of masculinity/femininity ,by providing welfare and housing meant for war widows, which facilitated and normalised and encouraged single parent families and seperated the role of men as providers for their children and primary authority for their children eg providing a roof and home.
Equal opportunities, then branched out to no longer meaning blacks but women, who could eat from both sides of the plate and all kinds of stuff, which has cut our hamstrings. Then they cut back and started to do us in systematically. We were no longer involved in a collective struggle, but individual competition to eat and now black people will stab their mothers for a promise of promotion into a non job, or into positions of greater subservience.
Nothing is more powerful than government policy and everything is a response or reaction to it. So many of the things we waste our time discussing is shaped by ignorance of history and what brought us to this point and until we understand that we are not only treading water, but drowining.
I know this may sound conspiratorial to the uneducated, but I worked with the principal strategist who advised the PM, who they recalled from Northern Ireland where he had just put in place a strategy to pull the carpet from under the IRA and Republican movment, in the biggest programme of its type. It worked by the way. Black people were not as robust,or problematic as the Catholics, because the world knows our structures are brittle and all you have to do is to blow on them.
lkphonecall
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markee
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Posted: Tuesday September 30th, 2003 09:11 |
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| I,v been away from this forum for awhile , but to answer the original question about whether the white skin is a curse or not i,m inclined to agree that the white skin is a curse because it is the product of a recessive gene black folks inhabited this planet long before white folks how many cases of skin cancer have you heard or read about concerning white folks have you ever heard of any cases of black folks getting skin cancer because they,ve been out in the sun for too long?have you ever heard of black folks ever using sun block to protect themselves from the sun ?ask yourself why is it that black folks are naturally protected from the rays of the sun and white folks are,nt.
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AQ
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Posted: Tuesday September 30th, 2003 18:42 |
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I think simply because it is somewhat unnatural for black people to sunbathe and not just black people. I say "somewhat" because there are now black women, in particular, who have taken on the European stance of sunbathing to the point where I heard a girl in the salon some time ago spouting that she's buying her suntan lotion to make herself even darker than ever. She seemed to think it was justifiable for her to sit in the sun like her white counterparts and revel in her headstart in already having a "tan" and insulting them by topping it up...silly "b*%$h. She failed to realise that she is in as much danger as anyone else who believes in frying themselves to make themselves look health is a good thing. In some parts of Europe as well as the tropics, people go about their daily business at particular times and when the sun is at its highest it's not unusual to take the "siesta" route and come out again during the late afternoon. The obvious saying of "mad dogs and englishmen" springs to mind and is very true. I've been to a couple of places in the Caribbean and it's not unusual for local people to wake up pretty early, go to the beach for exercise and health reasons and escape the sun between 12-3:00pm.
As for the biblical reference, I see that as simply someone with a disease, a medical condition who needed attention, not some sort of curse of a race of people, and I understand that Kareem used it as a point of discussion in that he wanted to know if it is right to view this as a "curse". According to the life Jesus led, he cured a leper of his ailment as well and even today there are some cases of leprosy in certain parts of the world so I really can't buy the logic that some groups like the NOI seem to want to propogate.
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Hesaid
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Posted: Tuesday September 30th, 2003 20:43 |
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AQ
Im sorry baby theres a definately more to this than just
staying out of the Sun.In hot countries Melinated people
stay out of the Sun because it tires you if you Over-expose yourself.Not because of Cancer, Markee was right
"have you ever heard of any cases of black folks getting skin cancer because they,ve been out in the sun for too long?"
NO!
Without even having to go into the sciences we know that
The SUN of God is the life giver of all natural Earth
Inhabitants plant or Animal.
(The Oracle:
What's really going to bake your noodle later on is....)
All other species that repel the Sun are either Hybrid
or Engineered.
(OOPPSs!I let the cat out the bag)
Theres a type of Canine called a weimaraner,
a beautiful dog that has a short lifespan
and has many defects in comparison to thoroughbreds.
There are other animals on the planet who respond in
such ways to nature but this tells the story of they're
creation. Our egyptian Ancesters where very aware of the
purpose of the Sun feeding and enriching all of the
planets natural Dwellers.
Skin cancer from the Sun is not to be taken litely though
because we believe so much in the media it was brushed off
as a "Oh well" when in reality thats some heavy sh*t and heavier still is the fact that nearly 20,000 people died in france from the SUN OF GODs return. So as one might run for refuge in the caves or desperately seek new ways to try to return to Mars while secretly seeking to bury their seed within the womb of the Mother of the planet(YOU)by using her own insecurity & ignorance of self, I dare say we should celebrate our long and continued life on the planet
and be cautious of the heavy being taken lite and the lite
being taken heavy for its all deception.
Oh of course its a curse!
LOL
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AQ
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Posted: Tuesday September 30th, 2003 22:29 |
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Hesaid wrote:
AQ
Im sorry baby theres a definately more to this than just
staying out of the Sun.In hot countries Melinated people
stay out of the Sun because it tires you if you Over-expose yourself.Not because of Cancer, Markee was right
"have you ever heard of any cases of black folks getting skin cancer because they,ve been out in the sun for too long?"
Sorry, I did miss that most crucial point, I was rushing to get to the bank...lol. You're right of course, it damn wears you out.
NO!
Without even having to go into the sciences we know that
The SUN of God is the life giver of all natural Earth
Inhabitants plant or Animal.
(The Oracle:
What's really going to bake your noodle later on is....)
All other species that repel the Sun are either Hybrid
or Engineered.
(OOPPSs!I let the cat out the bag)
Theres a type of Canine called a weimaraner,
a beautiful dog that has a short lifespan
and has many defects in comparison to thoroughbreds.
There are other animals on the planet who respond in
such ways to nature but this tells the story of they're
creation. Our egyptian Ancesters where very aware of the
purpose of the Sun feeding and enriching all of the
planets natural Dwellers.
Skin cancer from the Sun is not to be taken litely though
because we believe so much in the media it was brushed off
as a "Oh well" when in reality thats some heavy sh*t and heavier still is the fact that nearly 20,000 people died in france from the SUN OF GODs return. So as one might run for refuge in the caves or desperately seek new ways to try to return to Mars while secretly seeking to bury their seed within the womb of the Mother of the planet(YOU)by using her own insecurity & ignorance of self, I dare say we should celebrate our long and continued life on the planet
and be cautious of the heavy being taken lite and the lite
being taken heavy for its all deception.
Oh of course its a curse!
LOL
*
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MonkeyMan1589
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Posted: Wednesday October 1st, 2003 04:57 |
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Kareem wrote:
So what does the 5th Chapter in 2nd Kings mean when it said.......
Wots 2nd Kings? I downt no wtf ur talkin bout. 
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Kareem
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Posted: Monday October 6th, 2003 00:18 |
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AQ:
I say "somewhat" because there are now black women, in particular, who have taken on the European stance of sunbathing to the point where I heard a girl in the salon some time ago spouting that she's buying her suntan lotion to make herself even darker than ever. She seemed to think it was justifiable for her to sit in the sun like her white counterparts and revel in her headstart in already having a "tan" and insulting them by topping it up...silly "b*%$h. She failed to realise that she is in as much danger as anyone else who believes in frying themselves to make themselves look health is a good thing.
I don't know about that....
I kinda like that "sun-kissed" look some sistaz are getting.
Not only does the sun make your skin darker but it has a way of making your skin look well oiled, shiney and juicy looking....if done properly.
When I see a sista walking around with a nice glowing tan it makes me hungry like looking at a well roasted duck.
As for the biblical reference, I see that as simply someone with a disease, a medical condition who needed attention, not some sort of curse of a race of people, and I understand that Kareem used it as a point of discussion in that he wanted to know if it is right to view this as a "curse". According to the life Jesus led, he cured a leper of his ailment as well and even today there are some cases of leprosy in certain parts of the world so I really can't buy the logic that some groups like the NOI seem to want to propogate.
 I've never heard any NOI propogate this!
Infact I've neve read the above chapter being quoted by ANY Christian or Muslim and wouldn't have known it was in the bible if I hadn't read the entire book and broadcasted it to other.
Yes, leprosy is a disease but the REAL disease was mis-translated by Biblical authors as "leprosy" as opposed to the TRUE name of it being "vitiligo" to through people off from the truth of the curse.
 Check out Exodus ch.4 and see what happend to Moses the other day....
And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand [was] leprous as snow.
And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his [other] flesh.
 ...I ain't NEVER seen no leprous SNOW!!!
I thought Leprosy was a disease the rots the flesh but obviously THIS type just makes you white.
There's a big deception going on because they labeled white skin something other than what it really was...what make you wonder what OTHER type of mis-translations they've made.
Hesaid:
....and I'll agree.
What you said makes me think about how whereever white (caucasian) people go...they have their OWN style of protection from the sun.
Englishmen wearing big safari hats and shades on African expiditions
Pale Arabs who wear rags over their heads for the desert
Spanish settlers and cowboys who were big sombreos.
Indian Aryans who wear turbans
It would seem that the people who aren't made for this planet have to improvise.
Some wise-men even teach that the clothing of Adam and Eve was SYMBOLIC of the clothing of white people to cover their raw pale vulnerable skin.
Monkeyface:
Have you ever heard of the BIBLE you illiterate heathen?
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