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RESS
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Posted: Sunday April 29th, 2007 20:35 |
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The Race Equality Secret Service (RESS) would like to encourage open minded and honest debate on strategies that will result in the most effective ways to accomplish the orderly, peaceful, civilised, non-violent, dignified and thorough demolition of Institutional Racism which is White Supremacy.
RESS has decided to use the language and terms already firmly established in the Official 16+1 Ethnic Classification system for clarity and to avoid unnecessary confusion.
Your feedback would be appreciated on the following question:
Is the problem of the overrepresentation of White people in Trustee, Directorship, Executive, Senior Management and all positions of power a problem of their Nature or Nurture?
1. If the problem is a problem of their Nature then the solution may involve the killing or incarceration of White people.
2. If the problem is a problem of their Nurture then the solution may involve the removal of White people from positions of authority and the development of improved systems of dialogue and/or training.
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RESS
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Posted: Sunday April 29th, 2007 20:39 |
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Sorry !
Wrong forum section.
Supposed to be in News and Politics.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday April 29th, 2007 20:40 |
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| Sorry but the questions asked does not make any sense whatsoever...
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RESS
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Posted: Sunday April 29th, 2007 20:44 |
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Look up the difference between Nature and Nurture.
Then it will make sense.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday April 29th, 2007 20:48 |
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| Actually I understand the nature/nuture polemic, what i don't understand is the whole premise of your question which appears somewhat flawed. Last edited on Sunday April 29th, 2007 20:55 by Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday April 29th, 2007 20:51 |
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Apedemak
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 12:56 |
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Is it in their nature to assume high positions over their black counterparts... Do they grow up to be, ''racist'', to find us as Africans somehow abhorrent without being natured into thinking so at all thus making our living with them totally impossible as they wouldn't/aren't able to work under an African person and would always seek to position themselves above us in their suffering of delusional grandure regardless of overly expencive, ''Stamp out Racism'' programs etc etc.
Or...
Have they been nurtured into that delusion of grandure, do they have the ability to work under and alongside us in peace in places like South Africa where their current mentality dosen't allow for them to work under African peoples... Is it simply a left over ex colonial/aparthied complex or have both themselves and their ancestors had problems in regards to people with melanin content?
If we can't live alongside them due to their nature then they're always going to be a thorn in our sides, we'd have to oust them from our countries as they'd rather wage all out war then see our nations rise. If its a nuture problem we can hope to find peace with them in the future even though we are at war with them now, our beef would be with their establishment rather than them as a people.
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RESS
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 13:03 |
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Thanks.
Sometimes things need to be put in others words before some people 'click'.
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RESS
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 13:05 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Actually I understand the nature/nuture polemic, what i don't understand is the whole premise of your question which appears somewhat flawed.
Where is the flaw?
Please elaborate.
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 13:45 |
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Rather than kill them off or breed them out (recessive genes) should we stay in Europe and Amerikkka and do as the Jewish did to avenge Hitlers germany? Wage an economic war and take what is ours as a side arm agenda to Pan-Africanism?
Rather than return home adopt a culture in their lands and seek revenge...
I'm a ''back to Africanist'', can't stand the ignorance, but I was talking to a breddah a while ago about going back and living out in JA or Ghana  . Mid conversation he turned around and called me a p***y... when he recovered from his injuries in hospital a few months later I apologised and asked him why he called me that in the first place. He said we have a right to be here, we can't just up and run away, we're here, we have to take whats ours and bring it back, said its like coming home from a war without having taken a few scalps... the Maafa and our ancestors enslavement only served to spread us about the west adding the Carib and other lands to Africas treasury as it were.
Slight alteration to a discussion there but it was brought up. The A.Americans would agree.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 16:21 |
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RESS wrote: The Race Equality Secret Service (RESS) would like to encourage open minded and honest debate on strategies that will result in the most effective ways to accomplish the orderly, peaceful, civilised, non-violent, dignified and thorough demolition of Institutional Racism which is White Supremacy.
RESS has decided to use the language and terms already firmly established in the Official 16+1 Ethnic Classification system for clarity and to avoid unnecessary confusion.
Your feedback would be appreciated on the following question:
Is the problem of the overrepresentation of White people in Trustee, Directorship, Executive, Senior Management and all positions of power a problem of their Nature or Nurture?
1. If the problem is a problem of their Nature then the solution may involve the killing or incarceration of White people.
2. If the problem is a problem of their Nurture then the solution may involve the removal of White people from positions of authority and the development of improved systems of dialogue and/or training.
1. first bit highlighted in red....contradicts the title of this thread, if you remember you open with the question to 'kill/breed' out white people...this is thewn openly contradicted by your opening remarks that then asks for solutions to a 'civilised, orderly and non violent' so called demolition of racism... Surely the title and the premise is an oxymoron? How can begin by suggesting that we (blacks) ought to breed/kill out an entire culture and then in the next breath talk about non violence, orderly suggestion of how this might be achieved...
2. I am also confused as where you wish to target this idea, in the UK world wide where exactly, you do not make this clear, nor do you make clear what benefit if any can be gleaned by such drastic action?
3. You then ask the rhetorical question about why White people hold the position of power in (i assume) the Uk or the West... this is confusing because I would have thought the answer was obvious if you're talking about the UK, it a matter of sheer numbers and historical origins of capitalism...but as you were not specific on what you were talking about I'm unsure relevance of this question and where you're anchoring this question..
4. You then move from what i glean to be a systemic historical overview to a psycholical polemic, by then asking whether the current socio economic imbalance, and cultural discrimination is now due to nature or nurture..this question for is totally misleading and contradictory as it ASSUMES that racism is derrived from genetics and not from a strategy that underpins capitalism which created it.... It further assumes that by eradication one culture we can thereby eradicate this idealogy....
Apart from the fact that this idea is dangerously close to the 'Final solution' propogated in the 1930's & 40's...it is by any standards a confusion of the origins of racism and the circumstances that has maintained it to date.... It is also in my opinion a total contradiction in principle to argue, suggest that a wrong can be righted by either reversing it or by visiting it upon the oppressor...That is NOT 'eradicating' oppression that is changing the face of oppression from WHITE to BLACK....again i fail; to see how this will add, change or make things 'better' for anyone.....
My feelings for what they are worth is simply this, REVOLUTION is not about about becoming the very thing we hate and dispise, it should be about principled change and if direct action is required then it must be to replace currupt behaviour, not to copy or mimick the behaviour of the oppressor....that is why I'm confused by your question and the premise on which you have achored this premise..
I await your 'open' and 'honest' response to my questions....
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 16:48 |
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Like always Kunjufu your clarify resounds clear
Peace dear elder.
Heather
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 18:05 |
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Well if you're the director of a Racial Equality group it'd pay well to question if a certain peoples unexplained avid hatred of another is one of their nature or nurture as asked... and from there how do you address the problem if it is one on nature?
This is where the whole albino bit comes into it, their disliking of people with melanin content as though it sickens them. Their love hate relationship with us and their double standards does make it seem as though they harbour an unchecked insecurity problem thats endangering us all. Won't go into it but their ancestors, the Aryans wrote of, ''slaying the black skin'' - ''Must uphold the white skin'' and caused such a devastation to the Indus cush that people think it was a natural disaster.
Was talking to someone about it but someone locked and deleted my thread for no apparent reason.
Oppressive ''civilizations'' don't tend to last long the Romans oppressed the christians and ended up as they are now, a Christian state. Oppressed peoples soon pick up and learn to stick together enough to change their situation, hence why the Jewish are so introverted in their dealings with people. Might take a while but if things don't change we'll become like them.
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 18:14 |
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This has the makings of a very interesting topic.
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 18:20 |
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I'm not saying we should kill them all. Bit too far for me but bring Africom into this and we have an even more intresting topic....
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 18:37 |
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| Apedemak: raised a very good example of where the oppressed have taken on the behaviour of their oppressors....I would argue the Jews behaviour in Palestine is akin to the behaviour of their Nazi oppressors... If a Jew was on this board I have no doubt that they would argue differently or spin their action into one of self defence... However in my view their action went way past self defence decades ago... Last edited on Monday April 30th, 2007 18:40 by Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 18:39 |
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| I would also make the point that I don't see how we can justifiably argue against the sin of slavery on one hand, and then argue for ethnic clensing on the other to me that is total hypocracy..
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RESS
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 20:50 |
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Kunjufu wrote:
1. first bit highlighted in red....contradicts the title of this thread, if you remember you open with the question to 'kill/breed' out white people...this is thewn openly contradicted by your opening remarks that then asks for solutions to a 'civilised, orderly and non violent' so called demolition of racism... Surely the title and the premise is an oxymoron? How can begin by suggesting that we (blacks) ought to breed/kill out an entire culture and then in the next breath talk about non violence, orderly suggestion of how this might be achieved...
2. I am also confused as where you wish to target this idea, in the UK world wide where exactly, you do not make this clear, nor do you make clear what benefit if any can be gleaned by such drastic action?
3. You then ask the rhetorical question about why White people hold the position of power in (i assume) the Uk or the West... this is confusing because I would have thought the answer was obvious if you're talking about the UK, it a matter of sheer numbers and historical origins of capitalism...but as you were not specific on what you were talking about I'm unsure relevance of this question and where you're anchoring this question..
4. You then move from what i glean to be a systemic historical overview to a psycholical polemic, by then asking whether the current socio economic imbalance, and cultural discrimination is now due to nature or nurture..this question for is totally misleading and contradictory as it ASSUMES that racism is derrived from genetics and not from a strategy that underpins capitalism which created it.... It further assumes that by eradication one culture we can thereby eradicate this idealogy....
Apart from the fact that this idea is dangerously close to the 'Final solution' propogated in the 1930's & 40's...it is by any standards a confusion of the origins of racism and the circumstances that has maintained it to date.... It is also in my opinion a total contradiction in principle to argue, suggest that a wrong can be righted by either reversing it or by visiting it upon the oppressor...That is NOT 'eradicating' oppression that is changing the face of oppression from WHITE to BLACK....again i fail; to see how this will add, change or make things 'better' for anyone.....
My feelings for what they are worth is simply this, REVOLUTION is not about about becoming the very thing we hate and dispise, it should be about principled change and if direct action is required then it must be to replace currupt behaviour, not to copy or mimick the behaviour of the oppressor....that is why I'm confused by your question and the premise on which you have achored this premise..
I await your 'open' and 'honest' response to my questions....
1. It was not a suggestion but a question with two options.
2. Institutional Racism which is White Supremacy is a global problem.
3. There is nowhere in the world that does not suffer from the effects of White Supremacist Ideology.
4. That is if you believe the problem to be one of Nature.
5. The solution would depend on whether the problem is Nature or Nurture.
We must find the source of this "corrupt behaviour" to create a strategy for "principled change" and "direct action" as you suggest.
Correct?
The meaning of the word civilised and peaceful is subject to interpretation. Much like the concept of a peace keeping force.
Last edited on Monday April 30th, 2007 20:53 by RESS
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 21:20 |
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RESS wrote:
1. It was not a suggestion but a question with two options.
2. Institutional Racism which is White Supremacy is a global problem.
3. There is nowhere in the world that does not suffer from the effects of White Supremacist Ideology.
4. That is if you believe the problem to be one of Nature.
5. The solution would depend on whether the problem is Nature or Nurture.
We must find the source of this "corrupt behaviour" to create a strategy for "principled change" and "direct action" as you suggest.
Correct?
The meaning of the word civilised and peaceful is subject to interpretation. Much like the concept of a peace keeping force.
RESS: hmmm in respect of the first point, it is not exactly honest to call it a question, first of all it is obviously retorical (and i might provocative premise) as opposed to an OPEN question inviting an exploration of the issues...
As for point two, I think you're in danger of falling into the trap of viewing racism as some sort of 'final solution, rather than an idealogy used to underpin the core principles of capitalism ie an economic and cultural heirachy.
using your retorical question as the basis of this discussion, for me talking about 'breeding' or 'killing' out a whole culture in order to address this 'corrupt behaviour' is not only unworkable isn't also equally corrupt and i notice that you side stepped this point entirely..
Returning to your pet point of nature Vs nurture.....I would comment that its neither and offer the view that racism is functional component of capitalism, and as such it is a tool intended to justify the ensalvement of humans for the purposes of free labour....
You cannot 'breed out' or 'kill' an idea....especially without th whole issue, racism is part of the issue but it is NOT the whole so called problem...... i firmly believe you cannot change or replace the currupt behaviour you speak of without revolutionary change...but thats another story..
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 22:05 |
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| Question: Why would a "secret service" be needed for race equality, when race is just as false as any biological and genetic equality amongst them? There would be no need for effort of "equality" if it was a natural and unforced mechanism between all forms of man, but inequality is very un-natural and forced. To sumbliminally state in one way or another that it is in the name of survival is pretty backward in the understanding that working against the order of nature and Spirit to exist in an aggregate state anomalous to the normality of nature, would only set oneself up for failure, because some things cannot be worked against for long without being overridden, and nature is only one overider.
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mike pain
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Posted: Monday April 30th, 2007 23:46 |
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........Ress to attempt to answer ur 2 q's
.....like kunjufu i don't believe that by killing or breeding out the white populace( and by the way are u talking about a genocide of all western/eastern/southern/ nothern/-or the global populace of whites) u will solve anything...
as for breeding out-if you mean, more ethnicaly diverse people populating the world then i would say thats already happening already ( look at melting pot/cosmapolitan world cities of london, newyork, places like miami etcc...) with the rise of globalisation the 'mixed race' ethnic group is growing.
..... if your talking ABOUT A catch-all final solution-sorry-fix, to rascism, there aint one...not unless you won't to do what Pol pot did to cambodia and announce we're going to start again 'year one' strategy and start slaughtering people left right and centre-but anyway on to your next question.
...if you are talking about how a eurocentric consciousness has effected the rest of the world ( i.e. white is best) and the best way to stop this 'institutionalised racism, then you should look at the american civil rights movement as a model and try to come up with some of your own ideas, and good luck too
one final bit of friendly adivice, not a good idea to antagonise kunjufu, i know your new here, but kunjufu is well respected...
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Posted: Tuesday May 1st, 2007 00:02 |
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| OMG! That is all I have to say about this thread.
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Posted: Tuesday May 1st, 2007 08:06 |
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OK OK
Lets imagine that you crackpots did decide to annihilate whites (can't even say that with a straight face)
I have a few questions:
How?
With who's army?
Who's gonna finance it?
And --most importantly, who the f-ck is with you on this genocidal mission?
Ress you are a Dickhead of a Primary form.
And the mods, you're idiots for allowing this thread to even exist, thereby drawing unneccesary fire and attention for this foolishness.
In this era of global terrorism and the associated resources involved in combatting it, Kunjufu I'm very disappointed in you.
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Posted: Tuesday May 1st, 2007 09:21 |
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Hopefully with global warming we won't have to do anything.
The Jews have eventually became what they are over time they had no choice being a persecuted people without a land. They have no right to be in the Middle East at all they went there, lived amongst the Arabs with the sole plan to work together and eventually take Palestine waging a social economic war just as they did to the germans resulting in Hitlers atrocity. If Israel looses its western backing history will probably repeat itself.
The europeans have no power over us what so ever, we give it to them. Once we have our own schools we'll be able to raise children as smart as the chinese and things will fall into place.
The threads premise was in jehst I'm sure, this is a non debate.
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Posted: Tuesday May 1st, 2007 09:42 |
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Kunjufu wrote: RESS wrote:
1. It was not a suggestion but a question with two options.
2. Institutional Racism which is White Supremacy is a global problem.
3. There is nowhere in the world that does not suffer from the effects of White Supremacist Ideology.
4. That is if you believe the problem to be one of Nature.
5. The solution would depend on whether the problem is Nature or Nurture.
We must find the source of this "corrupt behaviour" to create a strategy for "principled change" and "direct action" as you suggest.
Correct?
The meaning of the word civilised and peaceful is subject to interpretation. Much like the concept of a peace keeping force.
RESS: hmmm in respect of the first point, it is not exactly honest to call it a question, first of all it is obviously retorical (and i might provocative premise) as opposed to an OPEN question inviting an exploration of the issues...
As for point two, I think you're in danger of falling into the trap of viewing racism as some sort of 'final solution, rather than an idealogy used to underpin the core principles of capitalism ie an economic and cultural heirachy.
using your retorical question as the basis of this discussion, for me talking about 'breeding' or 'killing' out a whole culture in order to address this 'corrupt behaviour' is not only unworkable isn't also equally corrupt and i notice that you side stepped this point entirely..
Returning to your pet point of nature Vs nurture.....I would comment that its neither and offer the view that racism is functional component of capitalism, and as such it is a tool intended to justify the ensalvement of humans for the purposes of free labour....
You cannot 'breed out' or 'kill' an idea....especially without th whole issue, racism is part of the issue but it is NOT the whole so called problem...... i firmly believe you cannot change or replace the currupt behaviour you speak of without revolutionary change...but thats another story..
Good points but should a culture of war, killing, arms dealing, enslavement, abuse, false supremacy and racism be allowed to exist?
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Posted: Tuesday May 1st, 2007 09:52 |
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stick-upKid wrote:
OK OK
Lets imagine that you crackpots did decide to annihilate whites (can't even say that with a straight face)
I have a few questions:
How?
With who's army?
Who's gonna finance it?
And --most importantly, who the f-ck is with you on this genocidal mission?
Ress you are a Dickhead of a Primary form.
And the mods, you're idiots for allowing this thread to even exist, thereby drawing unneccesary fire and attention for this foolishness.
In this era of global terrorism and the associated resources involved in combatting it, Kunjufu I'm very disappointed in you.
I can't believe this thread was even allowed to exist. WHAT A SHAME!!!!
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RESS
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Posted: Tuesday May 1st, 2007 09:52 |
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HLF wrote: Question: Why would a "secret service" be needed for race equality, when race is just as false as any biological and genetic equality amongst them? There would be no need for effort of "equality" if it was a natural and unforced mechanism between all forms of man, but inequality is very un-natural and forced. To sumbliminally state in one way or another that it is in the name of survival is pretty backward in the understanding that working against the order of nature and Spirit to exist in an aggregate state anomalous to the normality of nature, would only set oneself up for failure, because some things cannot be worked against for long without being overridden, and nature is only one overider.
Good points for those who can transcend in mind the current system of Institutional Racism based on White Supremacist ideology.
One has to use the tools available in ones environment for the demolition of those oppressive structures that created the environment one is forced to live in.
Words are tools.
The White Supremacists taught us English.
The White Supremacists created our environment.
That which is false can be perceived as true to those who are in a Racist controlled environment.
"Race Equality" is a White Supremacist invention that is fully functional in the system of Institutional Racism because they made it so and people believe it.
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Posted: Tuesday May 1st, 2007 09:58 |
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mike pain wrote: ........Ress to attempt to answer ur 2 q's
.....like kunjufu i don't believe that by killing or breeding out the white populace( and by the way are u talking about a genocide of all western/eastern/southern/ nothern/-or the global populace of whites) u will solve anything...
as for breeding out-if you mean, more ethnicaly diverse people populating the world then i would say thats already happening already ( look at melting pot/cosmapolitan world cities of london, newyork, places like miami etcc...) with the rise of globalisation the 'mixed race' ethnic group is growing.
..... if your talking ABOUT A catch-all final solution-sorry-fix, to rascism, there aint one...not unless you won't to do what Pol pot did to cambodia and announce we're going to start again 'year one' strategy and start slaughtering people left right and centre-but anyway on to your next question.
...if you are talking about how a eurocentric consciousness has effected the rest of the world ( i.e. white is best) and the best way to stop this 'institutionalised racism, then you should look at the american civil rights movement as a model and try to come up with some of your own ideas, and good luck too
one final bit of friendly adivice, not a good idea to antagonise kunjufu, i know your new here, but kunjufu is well respected...
The destruction of faith in White Supremacist ideology as manifested in the Banking and so called 'civil' services is the final solution.
As regards Kunjufu the reason he is respected will be demonstrated once again no doubt in the flow of this thread.
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Posted: Tuesday May 1st, 2007 12:09 |
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oo9 wrote: stick-upKid wrote:
OK OK
Lets imagine that you crackpots did decide to annihilate whites (can't even say that with a straight face)
I have a few questions:
How?
With who's army?
Who's gonna finance it?
And --most importantly, who the f-ck is with you on this genocidal mission?
Ress you are a Dickhead of a Primary form.
And the mods, you're idiots for allowing this thread to even exist, thereby drawing unneccesary fire and attention for this foolishness.
In this era of global terrorism and the associated resources involved in combatting it, Kunjufu I'm very disappointed in you.
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