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bdiamond
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Posted: Monday April 9th, 2007 15:30 |
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Do you think the British sailors were right to sell their stories.
Do you think they should have sold their stories? do you think they are justified in their actions. the media has wanted to capture this story from day one .
Do you think the MOD bent their rules for these individuals.
Remember, some people that have come back from Iraq , are still waiting for compensation from the government.
Last edited on Monday April 9th, 2007 15:32 by bdiamond
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CashMoney
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Posted: Monday April 9th, 2007 16:29 |
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| Theye werent right but everyone knew it would happen
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*$HaNnY_Bu*
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Posted: Monday April 9th, 2007 18:57 |
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| Tonight with Trevor McDonald 8pm.
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Dada
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Posted: Monday April 9th, 2007 19:29 |
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No it was not right.
The fact is that the Iranian Government beat this Government at what it usually doe's best. SPIN.
What the Iranian's did was really won the Propaganda war and this government is woe'fully trying to catch up.
This is a Pandora's box and things will start getting worse for the Military.
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Parris
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Posted: Tuesday April 10th, 2007 18:59 |
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I can't say there were wrong for selling their story but I can say that didn't really put up all that much of a fight.
PaRrIs
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mike pain
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Posted: Wednesday April 11th, 2007 09:44 |
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Parris wrote: I can't say there were wrong for selling their story but I can say that didn't really put up all that much of a fight.
PaRrIs
the british navy were only operating from three very small rubber blow dingys , they were armed with small sides arms , and nothing else, like this one
The Iranians were operating from several gunboats operating mounted heavy calibre guns. The Iranians had the brits surrounded, if the brits had opened fire, in all likely hood many brits would have been killed and their dingy’s would have sunk…. Whats the American procedure for such an event ,what would you have done in that position ?
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Dada
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Posted: Wednesday April 11th, 2007 09:56 |
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As a friend said to me on the Weekend.
15 Sailors and Royal Marine Commandos.
14 Men 1 Woman.
1 Guess who was driving the Boat  .
But seriously Mark Pain:
Questions:
Why did HMS Cornwall not provide cover i.e Artillery support or Air Cover since it was very possible that they might have come under heavy fire from a Ship they were to aboard?
This is very basic stuff. They screwed up big time.
Last edited on Wednesday April 11th, 2007 10:00 by Dada
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mike pain
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Posted: Wednesday April 11th, 2007 10:09 |
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the british navy were only operating from three very small rubber blow up dingys , they were armed with small sides arms , and nothing else,
The Iranians were operating from several gunboats operating mounted heavy calibre guns. The Iranians had the brits surrounded, if the brits had opened fire, in all likely hood many brits would have been killed and their dingy’s would have sunk…. Whats the American procedure for such an event ,what would you have done in that position ?
only two of the
Fifteen service personnel have so far sold their stories to the media… normally, there is an unwritten rule allowing personnel to talk to the media, but only after some time has elapsed (e.g. the air man held in the first gulf war, consecutive heads of the army etc.. )
The unusual nature of letting the soldiers sell their stories so soon made me think that certain officials wanted the story out for propaganda purposes…. ( a possible attack on iran in other words )
I’ve tried to listen to as many talkshows as I could focusing on the ex squadies , the opinion is pretty much divided ( even though much of press would make you think otherwise ) some are for and some are against,…..
hell, crap pay, rot soden homes, i'd sell my story.
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mike pain
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Posted: Wednesday April 11th, 2007 10:14 |
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Dada wrote: As a friend said to me on the Weekend.
15 Sailors and Royal Marine Commandos.
14 Men 1 Woman.
1 Guess who was driving the Boat .
But seriously Mark Pain:
Questions:
Why did HMS Cornwall not provide cover i.e Artillery support or Air Cover since it was very possible that they might have come under heavy fire from a Ship they were to aboard?
This is very basic stuff. They screwed up big time.
...........you have no idea how many times i've heard that joke, and every time it's still funny...but as you say, seriously....the incompetance shown By the British navy is probably due to overstretch and cut backs, inexcusable, but then again the brits didn’t expect to be operating at full capacity four years after supposed , major combat operations were over….personally I think that Britain should never have gone over there in the first place. …and it’s MIKE not mark
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Dada
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Posted: Wednesday April 11th, 2007 10:27 |
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Sorry Mike,
Mark Paine was a famous philospher.
Yes, the Navy have messed up. And Both Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are pseudo imperialist wars on drugs and Oil.
Neither respects the sovereignty of the nation state.
Also I think the media is really playing up on the Body count. Only 130 soldiers killed since 2003?
In the Falklands 256 died in six weeks!!!
On large exercises such as Divisional ones there is always calculated body count due to accidents usually around 10-15 and that's for a three week one?
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mike pain
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Posted: Wednesday April 11th, 2007 10:34 |
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| many western soldiers die in both theatres of war, alot from simple accidents, but the media often ignores these because they aren't dramatic enough.
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Parris
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Posted: Wednesday April 11th, 2007 20:12 |
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mike pain wrote: Parris wrote: I can't say there were wrong for selling their story but I can say that didn't really put up all that much of a fight.
PaRrIs
the british navy were only operating from three very small rubber blow dingys , they were armed with small sides arms , and nothing else, like this one
The Iranians were operating from several gunboats operating mounted heavy calibre guns. The Iranians had the brits surrounded, if the brits had opened fire, in all likely hood many brits would have been killed and their dingy’s would have sunk…. Whats the American procedure for such an event ,what would you have done in that position ?
The reason why they were able to be boarded and ran down so easily is because they went outside of the range of their control shipt....lost visual contact with supporting air cover. The Iranians were watching this and this is how they were able to "sneak up on them". The leader has to make a decision to resists or comply....and I guess I can see where he would comply. When I say they gave up without a fight......the presented themselves on TV admitting that they were wrong. I mean without even being punched.
These sailors and Marine (MARINES!!!) are treated worse than this in training.
American rules say resist by all means necessary..........they gave up too easily, far far to easily.
PaRrIs
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Pele
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Posted: Wednesday April 11th, 2007 22:30 |
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| What are the Argentines waiting for...?
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Dada
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Posted: Friday April 13th, 2007 00:19 |
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.
Last edited on Friday April 13th, 2007 00:24 by Dada
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mike pain
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Posted: Saturday April 14th, 2007 13:27 |
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Parris wrote: mike pain wrote: Parris wrote: I can't say there were wrong for selling their story but I can say that didn't really put up all that much of a fight.
PaRrIs
the british navy were only operating from three very small rubber blow dingys , they were armed with small sides arms , and nothing else, like this one
The Iranians were operating from several gunboats operating mounted heavy calibre guns. The Iranians had the brits surrounded, if the brits had opened fire, in all likely hood many brits would have been killed and their dingy’s would have sunk…. Whats the American procedure for such an event ,what would you have done in that position ?
The reason why they were able to be boarded and ran down so easily is because they went outside of the range of their control shipt....lost visual contact with supporting air cover. The Iranians were watching this and this is how they were able to "sneak up on them". The leader has to make a decision to resists or comply....and I guess I can see where he would comply. When I say they gave up without a fight......the presented themselves on TV admitting that they were wrong. I mean without even being punched.
These sailors and Marine (MARINES!!!) are treated worse than this in training.
American rules say resist by all means necessary..........they gave up too easily, far far to easily.
PaRrIs
......so what do you think about the way the iranians have appeared more benevolent than those soliders holding detanees in camp x-ray.....
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Parris
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Posted: Monday April 16th, 2007 17:31 |
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mike pain wrote: Parris wrote: mike pain wrote: Parris wrote: I can't say there were wrong for selling their story but I can say that didn't really put up all that much of a fight.
PaRrIs
the british navy were only operating from three very small rubber blow dingys , they were armed with small sides arms , and nothing else, like this one
The Iranians were operating from several gunboats operating mounted heavy calibre guns. The Iranians had the brits surrounded, if the brits had opened fire, in all likely hood many brits would have been killed and their dingy’s would have sunk…. Whats the American procedure for such an event ,what would you have done in that position ?
The reason why they were able to be boarded and ran down so easily is because they went outside of the range of their control shipt....lost visual contact with supporting air cover. The Iranians were watching this and this is how they were able to "sneak up on them". The leader has to make a decision to resists or comply....and I guess I can see where he would comply. When I say they gave up without a fight......the presented themselves on TV admitting that they were wrong. I mean without even being punched.
These sailors and Marine (MARINES!!!) are treated worse than this in training.
American rules say resist by all means necessary..........they gave up too easily, far far to easily.
PaRrIs
......so what do you think about the way the iranians have appeared more benevolent than those soliders holding detanees in camp x-ray.....
The one incident was used to embarass the UK; nothing more. It did not change that overall appearance of Iran. Iran looked out of its back window and saw two Aircraft Carrier battle groups and realized this was their way out.
The US doesn't need to set one foot in Iran to launch it back to the stone-age. The US ground forced are stretched, but lets not forget the US has the most powerful Air-force and Navy in the world. Iran hasn't forgotten either.
What this really showed is that UK military is defenseless as a fighting force.
PaRrIS
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Dada
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Posted: Monday April 16th, 2007 18:44 |
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The Iranian Hostage seige 1979
Somali
Labanon 1983
And the US ship blown up in the Gulf a few years back How many died?
Then of course we have the 11th of September 2001
As Sun Tzu said:
"You can defend against anything, but innovation"
The premise behind it is based on nothingless than the colonial peom:
put in a well-known jingle by Hilaire Belloc,
"Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not"
Pound for Pound: Britain as a fighting force is second to none.
Vietnam proved that even pound for pound the Americans as a figthing force have too much to learn.
Last edited on Monday April 16th, 2007 18:54 by Dada
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Dada
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Posted: Monday April 16th, 2007 18:47 |
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The only reason why the Americans dropped the Atom bombs on Japan was because it was scared to face the Japanese face to face.
Then we have Korea, another war the Americans could not reach a conculsion, it would appear that Orientals have more fight in their bellies than the American Military so god knows how much they must be quaking in thier boots with China emerging like the new superpower.
But I won't get into who's Bigger than who.
Last edited on Monday April 16th, 2007 18:50 by Dada
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mike pain
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Posted: Tuesday April 17th, 2007 12:28 |
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...........paris the world and it's mother is hoping that iran is not bombed.
yes we all know that the united states has the most powerful millitary etccc
....but to do so would cause anarky all over the world...suppose an american air man went down in iran and the states launched an operation to save said service man....the theorised conflagration of the middle east....the oil prices would go through the roof, afganistan-you-can-bet, would then be flooded with iranian capital to trouble nato forces....and by the way iran hasn't suffered from years of sanctions like iraq had it's devices while not on a parallel with the u.s. (heck who's is..) is significant enough to continue a protracted, asymmetric, war to seriously damage it's interests all over the world ( heztbollah(?) in israel), various u.s embassys, iraq going into fall blown war) not to mention extremist sympathizers acting as suicidal bombers in 'coalition of the willing capitals' ....
and DADA
raises a good point, if the american public sees enough body bags over another pointless , bush led war, the american forces will simply pull back....
and by the way the sympahty for the people of iran, is significant enough to cause world wide condemnation if bush says 'lets bomb iran'.
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