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LLoydy64
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 16:33 |
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@Vun, (sorry is spelt the name wrong earlier)
I'm sorry - I stand by my point.
Seriously, why do you care?
Why would it even bother you if some females see the person you described as perfect?
I'm beginning to seriously question your emotional state...
Sorry...
Man is Man - We don't care about things like that - you're the 1st man I've ever heard chat such foolishness.
Remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder not the general consensus.
Someone who is true to themselves will not allow the general consensus to taint their outlook anyway.
Some people will champion 1 skin shade and some people will champion another such is their preference and such is life.
This is soo Nonsensical I can't even believe we're debating it...
I would think a brothaman such as yourself would understand that?
There are so many issues we as brothamen need to concentrate on and action (not chat about) - This is seriously embarassing...
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Lucas...
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 16:38 |
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@lloydy
...
mmm like the americans say
"you ain't said nuttin but a word"
...(Carl Martin)
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LLoydy64
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 16:54 |
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@Aryek,
I don't care for cultural stereotypes regarding skin shades - while I accept that one body of people may champion 1 shade and another body of people may champion another - it will never bother me personally because I see all people as equal - and treat them as such - Simple.
I see where you are coming from regarding your ex tho - obviously people are products of their experiences.
If he was subjected to what you said he was then I could see why HE may develop a complex around his skin shade.
My argument is that as you get older your resolve as a man generally strengthens/matures and such things will no longer bother you.
However I accept that there may be exceptions to that rule.
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 17:26 |
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LLoydy64 wrote: @Vun, (sorry is spelt the name wrong earlier)
I'm sorry - I stand by my point.Seriously, why do you care? I'm beginning to seriously question your emotional state...Sorry...
------------------------------------------------
You still wrote my name wrong but I am sure that is a spelling mistake, just call me VK for short because that is much easier. So far my arguement with you is civil but I will advise you to keep it civil and lets not go down the other road, but the "emotional State" comment is a low blow because I have not low blowed you, not yet but I will let it pass. Read what I wrote to Lucas previously, I have a girl that I am perfectly happy with and yes she is afrocentric, beautiful, black, and I can have more if I want to; but that is not my style. I am not saying that you are not capable, just pointing out about myself so you don't make assumptions again.
Now to answer your question. I care because I care how the sisters feel. I think you are lying to yourself if you think what I refenced is not true and saying black-men don't care about this issue; maybe there is a slight minority of black men that don't. You can wrap it anyway you like and call it foolishness and say it is something you have never heard before but I have History on my side particularly of events that happen in America since these country was created. Just read what Gmahogany wrote and the examples she gave. Here in America I have seen this over and over again. Again I kept referencing you back to the historical facts of what I said and what some brothers said but you are set in your ways as you said and you are not interested in history and philosophy. The historical facts (not opinions but facts) I posted and attached with my posts are not to change you but to reference what has happened in the past particularly here in America; and why the issue is sensitive, maybe things are different in England which you seem to project which I doubt very seriously. I brought up the issue of Franco Harris so that the guys can see what some of the sisters here are talking about. Did you read the references to my last post to DM? I give facts you dodge around and pretend you never heard of the facts I referenced and act like it is the first time you are hearing of it which I know is not true. Like I say, maybe things in England different which you seem to project.
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Aryek
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 17:33 |
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Actually my ex. has never been teased for his skin tone. He's not dark skinned, and not light enough to have his blackness questioned. He just doesn't want to hear any thing about men who don't look like him in some way. And yes, he would never admit this to anyone, but I happen to be a very observant person and when you spend that much time with someone, you learn a thing or two about them.
You have to know that I don't believe that there are that many differences between men and women. You seem to think in these terms, so we may never agree on this one. I believe that given the right opportunity, people can and will behave similarly regardless of their gender, race, etc. I'm not talking about individuals here, I'm talking about group behaviour. So if you don't see yourself getting all worked up over cultural definitions of good and bad skin tones, that's fine but it doesn't mean that there is something strange, unusual or exceptional about those who do.
Last edited on Saturday September 2nd, 2006 17:49 by Aryek
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 17:46 |
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| Just to add something incase people get weird ideas about me. My pic is there. Being that I never grew up in America, I have never been teased about my skin tone and things like that. There are some African Americans who dislike me particularly guys but that is because I am a Continental Africans and there are some African-Americans who just don't like continental Africans period. Notice I said some because I don't want to start another subject just stating facts about myself so that people don't make weird assumptions.
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Blackthought
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 18:58 |
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I still can't believe some of the dialogue that is going on here.. some of it is to trivial to even think grown men will be discussing it..
So now we must consider other sisters before promoting our own prefrence in BLACK WOMEN.. maybe next time I will post a sexy sister with my preffered skin tone and post another girl with a opposite tone to satisfy everybody.. that just sounds crazy with alot of bull..
Whats next ?? ... we must consider the type of hair they have, or maybe body shape....
Tip toeing what we prefer.. just sounds stupid.
If a girl/group or girls likes a certain shade of Black Men.. then so what?.. goodluck to her, this is not something I would loose sleep too. I wouldn't expect that from another man either, except a cry baby.. it's could be something u make jokes off, but with no ill feelings...
Then we have "Vuk" no offence bro.. but you don't seem to understand that there are alot of brothers out their who just don't give a s.h.i.t about this type of things, I mean why is that so hard to believe?
I personally don't care about it nor know any men that care about it.. in the light that its made an issue of.
Peace
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Gmahogany
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 19:09 |
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Aryek wrote: I was just about ready to jet out of this thread, but now I see that we've gone and opened up a whole new can of worms. About this light skin-dark skin business and which gender is more likely to react to it, what some of you need to understand is that black women's frustration with this issue has nothing to do with caring too much about what skin tone some random guy on the street prefers. Our frustration is with the way that this culture insists on making dark skin the inferior skin colour. People get frustrasted with BP on this site, not because he likes light skinned women per se, but because his preference is a constant reminder of what our culture says about darker skin. If BP was going around posting up pictures of dark skinned women, light skinned women may not complain in the present situation because they would still have a more powerful voice, culture, extolling the virtues of lighter skin. However, if black culture, all cultures in fact, was hell bent on teaching people that lighter skin is inferior, BP would face just as much heat for glorifying dark skin as he does now for light skin.
This also goes for the argument that is being made about gender. Black men may not get fazed with black women's colour preferences, (although I don't agree with that because I've experienced it first hand with my ex. that some of you do, and no he's not a sissy), but you would care about cultural definitions of superior and inferior skin tones for males. If from childhood you were being told by your culture that you're the wrong skin colour and worst, other children teased and harassed you because of it, it would be a sore spot in your identity. We have examples of this from brothers like Clarence Thomas and Wesley Snips who as children were made fun off for being too dark. In fact, using these two cases as an example, you could argue that colourism affects black men in whom they chose to be with, while with black women, it affects what they do to their bodies. One gender "mutilates" itself to fit the ideal, the other scumbs to it through their choice of partner. I also see colourism as having very similar effects to racism and if racism affects black men, then so will colourism. No one is immune from it, we just experience it in different degrees and also react to it by using culturally "acceptable" means.
Your point about men responding differently to colorism is on the money. As you said, they are more likely to manifest the effects of colorism THEY may have experienced, by running after the first light or white woman they can find, as a way of conquering the feeling of rejection. Although, I remember hearing Tyrese say that he dug the dark skinned chick in 702, because she reminded him of some of the dark skinned chicks that DID check for him, before he got famous.
I think it's very interesting, and not a coincidence, that the men who are denying this phenomenon are all from OUTSIDE of the U.S. VK is an Continental AFrican, but he has LIVED here for 12 years, and even in that little amount of time, he's experienced this. Like I've said on SEVERAL threads lately, ya'll need to stop believing that just because our experiences as Black people in the world are similar, that they are always the same, because they are not. Beyond that, stop being so quick to dismiss certain phenomenons that SEVERAL people from the SAME country(male and female) are telling you exist, just because they don't square with what happens in your neck of the woods. It's really arrogant and narrow-minded, not to mention dumb.
Again, it's easy to talk sh*t about what you don't/won't let affect you, when it's something you aren't regularly confronted with or anything that you are likely to be confronted with, we'll never know how you would have responded and neither will you.
As Aryek, and others have reiterated. It's not about what some individual loser may or may not like in skin tone. It amuses me when people try to act like anytime a woman observes something and comments on it, they must not be getting dick(as if dick is some hard to come by, rare commodity,lol). Like Chris Rock says, Most females have been getting offered dick, on a daily basis, since they were 12 or 13, younger than that if they developed early in the breast area, like I did,lol. Its about the bigger, general, CULTURAL set up, behind the indivdual loser's attitude/preference. This is not rocket science,folks.
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 19:13 |
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now Gmahonany do you really regard me as a looser?
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Gmahogany
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 19:20 |
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Black_power wrote: now Gmahonany do you really regard me as a looser?
No, sweetie. I wasn't referring to you. I was speaking in general terms.
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 19:24 |
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thats cool....I was gonna cancel our date.
just wonderd how people make these wild assumptions
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 20:23 |
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BT, Lucas, Lloyd
I know I thought I was in a twilight world when I read this stuff... it's truly bizzare to have other people decide what's in my head for me.
As for that idea of me being upset at that Franco fellow's picture it's a stupid example because A) BP is one man alone posting such pictures who isn't THAT powerful FFS and in a minority and b) whatever you may believe inside... men just don't give a flying FFFFFFFFFFFF
Example, I'm lighter than Lucas and no way in such good shape as he is. Am I supposed to cry and complain if women like his picture then? Boo hoo women like dark muscly men and not me boo hoo hoo.... Don't you see what kind of a b**ch personality that would require me to have? *shakes head* I simply don't know men like that. Most of us congratulate not hate if another dude is getting play and thats fact.
Now you can listen to the men here speaking for themselves VK or stay in your funny myopic world where you decide what they are thinking for them. Up to you.
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 20:30 |
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lol DM me and you both brudda....truss me.
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jett Black
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 20:39 |
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Sorry to interject with a totally non-relevant point........but
I can't access the forum,I can only read last posts,it keeps saying i'm not logged on.wot a gwaan??
Help
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The Watcher
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 20:43 |
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JB
But you can post what you just did and presumably see it so?
What do you mean?
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Lucas...
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Posted: Saturday September 2nd, 2006 22:18 |
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The Watcher wrote: BT, Lucas, Lloyd
I know I thought I was in a twilight world when I read this stuff... it's truly bizzare to have other people decide what's in my head for me.
As for that idea of me being upset at that Franco fellow's picture it's a stupid example because A) BP is one man alone posting such pictures who isn't THAT powerful FFS and in a minority and b) whatever you may believe inside... men just don't give a flying FFFFFFFFFFFF
Example, I'm lighter than Lucas and no way in such good shape as he is. Am I supposed to cry and complain if women like his picture then? Boo hoo women like dark muscly men and not me boo hoo hoo.... Don't you see what kind of a b**ch personality that would require me to have? *shakes head* I simply don't know men like that. Most of us congratulate not hate if another dude is getting play and thats fact.
Now you can listen to the men here speaking for themselves VK or stay in your funny myopic world where you decide what they are thinking for them. Up to you.
*****
*************
*************
well said.. in the same token drunk as stated... he is lighter than me.. if women look at him and say oh he's fine..... am i gonna be like oh no they like him because he's lighter.... booo hooo...
uh nuh....
too busy tryin to make mine.. and besides.. i have females who like me.... same as he has hes "fans" ...
@
gmahagony.... we are not chatting sh*t.. or tryin to be blaise....
its just the way we are.... i really cant understand how a womancould have a lovine fine tyrese or dnzel.. or shemar moore man who like u and ur skin colour.... why would you be concerned with what some guy posts on the internet as his ideal.. doesnt make sense....
I want you to see it from my perspective.... see how everyone is down on bp because he posts lightskinned women or whatever do you think it would be the other way around and bp was posting pics of darker skinned women ...
do you think there would be complaints???
i get really pissed off when darker skin ladies act as if black men dont show them love.... because that is sooo untrue.... they just need to bend their head around the concept that not every black man is gonna fancy black women.... bp is probably the only brotha here that has expressed that he loves lighter women... thats 1 % of the black men here and look at the fuss it has caused !? 1%....
it just sends across a pitiful message which i find embarassing.. because im a dark skinned black man .... snd while i know some women like lightskin men.... i have nothing against those women ... with women if a man like lightskin women ..
he is a sellout... that is so pitiful... and stupid
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Gmahogany
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Posted: Sunday September 3rd, 2006 00:20 |
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Lucas... wrote: The Watcher wrote: @
gmahagony.... we are not chatting sh*t.. or tryin to be blaise....
its just the way we are.... i really cant understand how a womancould have a lovine fine tyrese or dnzel.. or shemar moore man who like u and ur skin colour.... why would you be concerned with what some guy posts on the internet as his ideal.. doesnt make sense....
I want you to see it from my perspective.... see how everyone is down on bp because he posts lightskinned women or whatever do you think it would be the other way around and bp was posting pics of darker skinned women ...
do you think there would be complaints???
i get really pissed off when darker skin ladies act as if black men dont show them love.... because that is sooo untrue.... they just need to bend their head around the concept that not every black man is gonna fancy black women.... bp is probably the only brotha here that has expressed that he loves lighter women... thats 1 % of the black men here and look at the fuss it has caused !? 1%....
it just sends across a pitiful message which i find embarassing.. because im a dark skinned black man .... snd while i know some women like lightskin men.... i have nothing against those women ... with women if a man like lightskin women ..
he is a sellout... that is so pitiful... and stupid
Lucas,
Again, ya'll keep trying to keep it on an indivdual level, rather than understand the bigger,cultural context. How can a woman have a Denzel, or a Shemar in their life loving them and STILL be offended when some RANDOM dude who she might not be attracted to anyway, proudly avows the light skin, is better stance? The same way Wesley Snipes, and Kanye WEst who can and probably have, at this point, have any and every type of woman they could ever desire(be happily married to an Asian chick in Wesley's case) and STILL feel compelled to talk about the trauma of being made to feel inferior by Black women,(even use it as an excuse for WHY they went outside their race, like Clarence Thomas told Anita Hill) as he was trying to SEX HER,LOL), because they weren't light skinned. It's the principle of the thing, love. It doesn't mean it stopped you from getting p***y or dick. It's bigger/deeper than that.
If a brother on this Board ONLY put up pictures of darkskinned sisters, (after everyone recovered from their respective heart attacks,lol,j/k there is at least one who does,I think, can't pull his name back, right now), light skinned sisters wouldn't have any reason to be upset, because there is an underlying ETHOS within Black culture(in the U.S, at least), as well as in the larger White culture, that ALREADY holds light skin up as THE beauty standard, for Blacks. The fact that one or two individual brothers went against that view, would not upset that applecart, or threaten that structure/ideal. It would just be a drop in the ocean.
I believe that u, Lloydy, and the Watcher(i like DM better,btw), mean what u are saying, but I believe part of the reason that you CAN feel the way you do, is because you haven't lived in a country like AMerica, where colorism was raised to a high art form. Again, unless you are saying that all of the men in the U.S., famous and non famous who have testified to this phenomenon, are ALL a bunch of whiny punks,(which may be your view ). I'd encourage you to look deeper though, and consider that maybe the different environment causes the different response. Even, Black women who travel out of America, notice more appreciation for brown and dark skin, in places like Jamaica for instance. That let's us know off the top, that this physical preference/beauty ideal differs from Black society to Black society,(is more intense and extreme in some places than other places),so I believe that it's possible that Black men within AMerica can be having a fundamentally DIFFERENT experience than their brethren from elsewhere;thus the different response/effect.
Last edited on Sunday September 3rd, 2006 00:25 by Gmahogany
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YankeeJamaRican
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Posted: Sunday September 3rd, 2006 00:52 |
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| D'oh... double post. Last edited on Sunday September 3rd, 2006 00:54 by YankeeJamaRican
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YankeeJamaRican
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Posted: Sunday September 3rd, 2006 00:53 |
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Gmahogany wrote:
If a brother on this Board ONLY put up pictures of darkskinned sisters, (after everyone recovered from their respective heart attacks,lol,j/k there is at least one who does,I think, can't pull his name back, right now), light skinned sisters wouldn't have any reason to be upset, because there is an underlying ETHOS within Black culture(in the U.S, at least), as well as in the larger White culture, that ALREADY holds light skin up as THE beauty standard, for Blacks. The fact that one or two individual brothers went against that view, would not upset that applecart, or threaten that structure/ideal. It would just be a drop in the ocean.
I believe that u, Lloydy, and the Watcher(i like DM better,btw), mean what u are saying, but I believe part of the reason that you CAN feel the way you do, is because you haven't lived in a country like AMerica, where colorism was raised to a high art form. Again, unless you are saying that all of the men in the U.S., famous and non famous who have testified to this phenomenon, are ALL a bunch of whiny punks,(which may be your view). I'd encourage you to look deeper though, and consider that maybe the different environment causes the different response. Even, Black women who travel out of America, notice more appreciation for brown and dark skin, in places like Jamaica for instance. That let's us know off the top, that this physical preference/beauty ideal differs from Black society to Black society,(is more intense and extreme in some places than other places),so I believe that it's possible that Black men within AMerica can be having a fundamentally DIFFERENT experience than their brethren from elsewhere;thus the different response/effect.
 Respeck due, Gmahogany is completely on point!
Somehow, the argument became entangled with the idea of people feeling personal threat by someone posting a certain type of beauty ideal. I also completely agree that the American viewpoint can be more uniquely affected.
We come in here to embrace pro-African idealogy and part of that contract is to escape the anti-African beauty ideal (whiter is nicer); that is partly what upsets the ladies (coupled with this tongue-in-cheek misogyny that isn't always funny)... it's like finding dogsh*t on your doorstep.
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Vubundada_Kandaba
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Posted: Sunday September 3rd, 2006 01:49 |
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@ Blackthought, Lloydy64, Lucas and TheWatcher(DrunkMonkey).
Maybe part of the reason we are going in circles is because I live in America and have seen all what I was talking about and you fellas live over in Good ol England. I have never been to England and I don't know how big the issue is over there, but here in America it is real. The reason I kept stressing to deaf ears that this is very sensitive issue is because here in the US the issue has been used as an instrument of division and I am not going to sit here and lie to myself that it does not exist or does not affect men and men are simple creatures and all the other excuses. Just read all the references I attached again. Again like I said before, maybe England is a unique place I don't know. As usual the sisters here make very good arguements but unfortunately it all gets ignored, duh.
To those who keep writing my name incorrectly like Lloydy64 and Blackthought, and all, If you guys want to reply back, make sure all of you get my African User name correct as I am a traditionalist and believe in culture and tradition and I believe in respecting AFRICAN NAMES. My name is not rocket science and any primary four pupil ( fourth grader) can write it without difficulty and I can't figure how you guys keep making these silly mistakes. Just copy and paste it and if not address me as VK. Surely VK is not rocket science is it?
Last edited on Sunday September 3rd, 2006 04:48 by Vubundada_Kandaba
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Runaway Mayhem; Sonja Wanda, the Next Naomi Campbell & the face on London Double Decker Buses, Spring 2004.
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Lucas...
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Posted: Sunday September 3rd, 2006 02:12 |
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Gmahogany wrote: Lucas... wrote: The Watcher wrote: @
gmahagony.... we are not chatting sh*t.. or tryin to be blaise....
its just the way we are.... i really cant understand how a womancould have a lovine fine tyrese or dnzel.. or shemar moore man who like u and ur skin colour.... why would you be concerned with what some guy posts on the internet as his ideal.. doesnt make sense....
I want you to see it from my perspective.... see how everyone is down on bp because he posts lightskinned women or whatever do you think it would be the other way around and bp was posting pics of darker skinned women ...
do you think there would be complaints???
i get really pissed off when darker skin ladies act as if black men dont show them love.... because that is sooo untrue.... they just need to bend their head around the concept that not every black man is gonna fancy black women.... bp is probably the only brotha here that has expressed that he loves lighter women... thats 1 % of the black men here and look at the fuss it has caused !? 1%....
it just sends across a pitiful message which i find embarassing.. because im a dark skinned black man .... snd while i know some women like lightskin men.... i have nothing against those women ... with women if a man like lightskin women ..
he is a sellout... that is so pitiful... and stupid
Lucas,
Again, ya'll keep trying to keep it on an indivdual level, rather than understand the bigger,cultural context. How can a woman have a Denzel, or a Shemar in their life loving them and STILL be offended when some RANDOM dude who she might not be attracted to anyway, proudly avows the light skin, is better stance? The same way Wesley Snipes, and Kanye WEst who can and probably have, at this point, have any and every type of woman they could ever desire(be happily married to an Asian chick in Wesley's case) and STILL feel compelled to talk about the trauma of being made to feel inferior by Black women,(even use it as an excuse for WHY they went outside their race, like Clarence Thomas told Anita Hill) as he was trying to SEX HER,LOL), because they weren't light skinned. It's the principle of the thing, love. It doesn't mean it stopped you from getting p***y or dick. It's bigger/deeper than that.
If a brother on this Board ONLY put up pictures of darkskinned sisters, (after everyone recovered from their respective heart attacks,lol,j/k there is at least one who does,I think, can't pull his name back, right now), light skinned sisters wouldn't have any reason to be upset, because there is an underlying ETHOS within Black culture(in the U.S, at least), as well as in the larger White culture, that ALREADY holds light skin up as THE beauty standard, for Blacks. The fact that one or two individual brothers went against that view, would not upset that applecart, or threaten that structure/ideal. It would just be a drop in the ocean.
I believe that u, Lloydy, and the Watcher(i like DM better,btw), mean what u are saying, but I believe part of the reason that you CAN feel the way you do, is because you haven't lived in a country like AMerica, where colorism was raised to a high art form. Again, unless you are saying that all of the men in the U.S., famous and non famous who have testified to this phenomenon, are ALL a bunch of whiny punks,(which may be your view). I'd encourage you to look deeper though, and consider that maybe the different environment causes the different response. Even, Black women who travel out of America, notice more appreciation for brown and dark skin, in places like Jamaica for instance. That let's us know off the top, that this physical preference/beauty ideal differs from Black society to Black society,(is more intense and extreme in some places than other places),so I believe that it's possible that Black men within AMerica can be having a fundamentally DIFFERENT experience than their brethren from elsewhere;thus the different response/effect.
**** ***********
ok i can appreciate what your sayin about america.. i dont live there so maybe i cant understand where you are coming from....
but I still maintain... that people like different things hmmm i saw u mentioned the ethos of the village.... well you have to realise lightskinned women (not mixraced) are black women too..dont they fall under the ethos of bn?
i just think of it this way ... if u are secure in yourself... then you dont need someone to tell you... you are nice.. isnt that the msg a lot sistas... bring here... yet 1% of the male population... states he likes something different.. and it all comes tumbling down... hmmmm quite contrary no...?
im a darkskinned man and i like being who i am... either like me for how i am or not...simple im not gonna cry over it... if u dont.. i would just like to see my female counterparts.. excersise the same mindset.
complaining over someone elses preference because it isnt what you are is so damn weak.. and pitiful.. makes me wanna barf....
hmmmm... "weak"
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Gmahogany
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| Joined: | Thursday January 1st, 2004 |
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Posted: Sunday September 3rd, 2006 04:23 |
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Lucas... wrote: Gmahogany wrote: Lucas... wrote: The Watcher wrote: @
gmahagony.... we are not chatting sh*t.. or tryin to be blaise....
its just the way we are.... i really cant understand how a womancould have a lovine fine tyrese or dnzel.. or shemar moore man who like u and ur skin colour.... why would you be concerned with what some guy posts on the internet as his ideal.. doesnt make sense....
I want you to see it from my perspective.... see how everyone is down on bp because he posts lightskinned women or whatever do you think it would be the other way around and bp was posting pics of darker skinned women ...
do you think there would be complaints???
i get really pissed off when darker skin ladies act as if black men dont show them love.... because that is sooo untrue.... they just need to bend their head around the concept that not every black man is gonna fancy black women.... bp is probably the only brotha here that has expressed that he loves lighter women... thats 1 % of the black men here and look at the fuss it has caused !? 1%....
it just sends across a pitiful message which i find embarassing.. because im a dark skinned black man .... snd while i know some women like lightskin men.... i have nothing against those women ... with women if a man like lightskin women ..
he is a sellout... that is so pitiful... and stupid
Lucas,
Again, ya'll keep trying to keep it on an indivdual level, rather than understand the bigger,cultural context. How can a woman have a Denzel, or a Shemar in their life loving them and STILL be offended when some RANDOM dude who she might not be attracted to anyway, proudly avows the light skin, is better stance? The same way Wesley Snipes, and Kanye WEst who can and probably have, at this point, have any and every type of woman they could ever desire(be happily married to an Asian chick in Wesley's case) and STILL feel compelled to talk about the trauma of being made to feel inferior by Black women,(even use it as an excuse for WHY they went outside their race, like Clarence Thomas told Anita Hill) as he was trying to SEX HER,LOL), because they weren't light skinned. It's the principle of the thing, love. It doesn't mean it stopped you from getting p***y or dick. It's bigger/deeper than that.
If a brother on this Board ONLY put up pictures of darkskinned sisters, (after everyone recovered from their respective heart attacks,lol,j/k there is at least one who does,I think, can't pull his name back, right now), light skinned sisters wouldn't have any reason to be upset, because there is an underlying ETHOS within Black culture(in the U.S, at least), as well as in the larger White culture, that ALREADY holds light skin up as THE beauty standard, for Blacks. The fact that one or two individual brothers went against that view, would not upset that applecart, or threaten that structure/ideal. It would just be a drop in the ocean.
I believe that u, Lloydy, and the Watcher(i like DM better,btw), mean what u are saying, but I believe part of the reason that you CAN feel the way you do, is because you haven't lived in a country like AMerica, where colorism was raised to a high art form. Again, unless you are saying that all of the men in the U.S., famous and non famous who have testified to this phenomenon, are ALL a bunch of whiny punks,(which may be your view). I'd encourage you to look deeper though, and consider that maybe the different environment causes the different response. Even, Black women who travel out of America, notice more appreciation for brown and dark skin, in places like Jamaica for instance. That let's us know off the top, that this physical preference/beauty ideal differs from Black society to Black society,(is more intense and extreme in some places than other places),so I believe that it's possible that Black men within AMerica can be having a fundamentally DIFFERENT experience than their brethren from elsewhere;thus the different response/effect.
**** ***********
ok i can appreciate what your sayin about america.. i dont live there so maybe i cant understand where you are coming from....
but I still maintain... that people like different things hmmm i saw u mentioned the ethos of the village.... well you have to realise lightskinned women (not mixraced) are black women too..dont they fall under the ethos of bn?
i just think of it this way ... if u are secure in yourself... then you dont need someone to tell you... you are nice.. isnt that the msg a lot sistas... bring here... yet 1% of the male population... states he likes something different.. and it all comes tumbling down... hmmmm quite contrary no...?
im a darkskinned man and i like being who i am... either like me for how i am or not...simple im not gonna cry over it... if u dont.. i would just like to see my female counterparts.. excersise the same mindset.
complaining over someone elses preference because it isnt what you are is so damn weak.. and pitiful.. makes me wanna barf....
hmmmm... "weak"
I realize that light skinned sisters are a part of the village,(I wouldn't exclude mixed race ones either if their mind is right). That's why you never hear me disrepect,slander or exclude them when topics like this come up. I don't have beef with them, it's not about them;not really. Beyond that, any light skinned sisters that aren't full of sh*t, KNOW that colorism exists and will tell you so. Some of the ones whose minds are not right, will even tell you how they exploit it, but I digress...
I agree with you about getting worked up about one or 10 random dudes having a light skinned preference,which is why I never attacked any one indivdual for expressing that preference. Like Ray Charles said, "why worry about people who don't like what u do, who you are, when there are so many that do?"lol. Words to live by, to be sure. At the same time though, the preference/bias we speak of is already hammered home to us 24/7 by everything we see in the society, so to come to a place that is specifically set up to be a REFUGE from a lot of that foolishness and have similar stuff promoted, even if by one or two people, understandably rubs some sisters the wrong way.If that connotes weakness, or vulnerability, let it be. Black women are allowed to be that from time to time, no?
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The Watcher
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Posted: Sunday September 3rd, 2006 04:41 |
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Vubundada_Kandaba wrote: @ Blackthought, Lloydy64, Lucas and TheWathcer(DrunkMonkey)
Maybe part of the reason we are going in circles is because I live in America and have seen all what I was talking about and you fellas live over in Good ol England. I have never been to England and I don't know how big the issue is over there, but here in America it is real.
America isn't the be all and end all of the black experience. Now we all live in Europe but Lucas, Lloyd and BP are from the Carribean and I'm from Africa and most of my family or direct experiences in Africa. I've never seen men carry on in such fashion as you describe. Never have I encountered men being upset or crying over percieved norms of beauty and what women like. Never. Until you attempted to say that's how WE think. KMT
The reason I kept stressing to deaf ears that this is very sensitive issue is because here in the US the issue has been used as an instrument of division and I am not going to sit here and lie to myself that it does not exist or does not affect men and men are simple creatures and all the other excuses. Just read all the references I attached again. Again like I said before, maybe England is a unique place I don't know.
You're carrying on as if I said colourism doesn't exist which is not my argument at all and I ignored your stupid notes because strawmen debates annoy me. It wasn't my position to begin with so attacking me on that front was pointless since I never denied colourism. Nitwit. I've had countless debates on colourism here and never once took a stance it was small or didn't exist. I don't need education or history lessons on you and your presumptious nature deserved all the ignoring I gave you. The flipping cheek!
The sisters you refer me to have said nothing relevant to my sole point.
That point being and has consistently been that men do not behave like insecure girls watching next man, comparing themselves and bawling. If that's what men are like around you I'm sorry. I've just never as a widely travelled person who's met people from all over... ever encountered such men. You've heard from several men now... It's upto you
As usual the sisters here make very good arguements but unfortunately it all gets ignored, duh.
What women say in regards to what's in a mans head is frankly irrelevant! They don't know and their view is discounted by me soley on their gender. I would never attempt to tell women what THEY think or how their minds work because.... I-am-not-a-woman!
 Funny how you just misspelt my name after making such a fuss eh? As if people don't make typos
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Gmahogany
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Posted: Sunday September 3rd, 2006 05:03 |
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YankeeJamaRican wrote: Gmahogany wrote:
If a brother on this Board ONLY put up pictures of darkskinned sisters, (after everyone recovered from their respective heart attacks,lol,j/k there is at least one who does,I think, can't pull his name back, right now), light skinned sisters wouldn't have any reason to be upset, because there is an underlying ETHOS within Black culture(in the U.S, at least), as well as in the larger White cultur
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