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Rastawoman
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 12:19 |
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obal85 wrote: @Ms Price,
Dont take it personally. Africans should have known that most West Indians are 30% Spanish, 30% Portuguese, 30% Greek, 9% East Indian and 1% African. Its ignorance on their part, isn't it?.
Where exactly do you get these figures from?, some peoples ignorance on here suprises me more everyday, Spanish, portuguese, greek, Indian....1%African, so why are the majority of Jamaicans black?, why are the Majority of Bajans Black? why are the majority of Vincentions black, why are the majority of Grenadians Black?, why are half of Trinidadians Black? (I could go on).Did we spend to much time in the sun? our skin is black from over tanning? 1% African what the rass. This thread is about names, now we are being told that not only are our names not African...we ourselves are not African...So why do we need this debate?
Maybe the question should be, why don't West Indians have Spanish/Portuguese/Greek/Indian names...only 1% of us are African according to obal85, so why should we bother with African names or culture?????
Last edited on Saturday May 13th, 2006 12:45 by Rastawoman
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Rastawoman
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 12:28 |
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MarcusGarveyLives wrote: Now i'm not bashing west indians, but they seem to be the worst culprits for this--their names are soooo english! Just str8 up boring english names trevor, george, andrew etc..."
Barbados' Fastest Man ... Obadele Thompson
Respect to you MGL, you are blowing peoples arguements right out of the water...keep your pictures coming and prove to some of the people on here that Caribbean people do take on their African culture!
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Rastawoman
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 12:31 |
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Barbados roots and culture show at the plantation Christ Church
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 13:18 |
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Rastawoman wrote: obal85 wrote: @Ms Price,
Dont take it personally. Africans should have known that most West Indians are 30% Spanish, 30% Portuguese, 30% Greek, 9% East Indian and 1% African. Its ignorance on their part, isn't it?.
Where exactly do you get these figures from?, some peoples ignorance on here suprises me more everyday, Spanish, portuguese, greek, Indian....1%African, so why are the majority of Jamaicans black?, why are the Majority of Bajans Black? why are the majority of Vincentions black, why are the majority of Grenadians Black?, why are half of Trinidadians Black? (I could go on).Did we spend to much time in the sun? our skin is black from over tanning? 1% African what the rass. This thread is about names, now we are being told that not only are our names not African...we ourselves are not African...So why do we need this debate?
Maybe the question should be, why don't West Indians have Spanish/Portuguese/Greek/Indian names...only 1% of us are African according to obal85, so why should we bother with African names or culture?????
Well said Rastawoman.....
Obal85 you are another poster whos ignorance surprises me. Not sure what you meant by your post, by it reads almost as if West Indians somehow are 'dirty' for being enslaved whilst you remain 'up there' somewhere as a puritan. Very sad.
Yet again not a mod in site when they're supposed to be.
@Mods not that long ago you removed a thread which questioned 'Is there real unity amongst Africans and West Indians'.
WHY i might ask as clearly its a topic which NEEDS to be aired. Exactly what is it you are you afraid of?. You create more damage by letting this stupidness fester in the tiny minds of certain individuals. Sweeping it under the carpet like it doesnt exist. I can hear your arguement for inter-racial relationships, however even that decesion is suspect as the vast vast majority disagree with you and want to talk about it. However this concerns us and us alone so under what premise is it counter-productive i would just love to know.?
Last edited on Saturday May 13th, 2006 13:53 by Le Moor
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Rastawoman
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 13:59 |
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Obal85 you are another poster whos ignorance surprises me. Not sure what you meant by that post by it reads almost as if we're somehow dirty for being enslaved whilst you remain up above somewhere as a puritan. Very sad.
Yet again not a mod in site when they're supposed to be.
Le Moor
do you know what makes me angry...the fact that I have always been taught to look to Africa, Africa my true home, Zion. But from what i'm beginning to learn on BNV...alot of Africans do not have any respect for West Indians, some on here seem to love to point out that they look down on us and our struggle, coming up with statistics that are completly disrespectful and untrue, trying to tell me that MY history that I learnt is ish...no one on here can make me question my faith, roots or culture, but it is still very sad to learn that certain people do not except West Indians as African and even go as far as saying that we as a people are ashamed to be black, lmao. Some history for all of you that doubt our heritage
1644 . 1700 . Sugar and Slavery
 A potential market formed for slaves and sugar-making machinery by the Dutch Merchants who were to supply Barbados with their requirements of forced labour from West Africa. The slaves came from Sierra Leone, Guinea, Ghana, the Ivory Coast, Nigeria and Cameroon
BUSSA
???? - 1816
Biographical Information
In history, he is recorded as Bussa, or Busso or Bussoe. But whatever his original and true name, there is no doubt that he is the most fascinating freedom fighter in the annals of Barbados.
Like thousands of his countrymen, he was born a free man in Africa, but was captured and brought to Barbados in the late 18th Century as a slave.
From that lowly status, he emerged to be celebrated in the folk memory of Barbadians as the man who struck a resounding blow for freedom by leading Barbados' longest slave revolt in April 1816 against racist and oppressive white Barbadian planters. That rebellion has been known to generations of Barbadians as Bussa's Rebellion, a testimony to the perceived transcendent importance of Bussa himself as the major militant leader of the rebel slaves in the actual fighting, and as one of the major planners and organisers of the slave revolt.
Despite the enormous significance of the role he played, mystery surrounds Bussa. There is no reference to him in the records of Barbados' plantations and, until 1816, we did not know he existed. Then suddenly there is the 1816 Rebellion and Bussa becomes real and a threat to white powers in the island.
That Rebellion, which began on Sunday, April 14, 1816, was the first slave uprising in this island for 124 years; the previous taking place in 1692. In the words of historian, Professor Hilary Beckles, it represented an attempt by the slaves to assert some influence on the general abolitionist politics of the time. What distinguished this rebellion from many of the others was that it was not a spontaneous exercise, but rather a calculated blow for freedom, planned, organised and executed by elite slaves on several Barbadian estates.
The facts show that this event was not just a brief historical spasm. Evidence gathered from the captured slaves revealed that the uprising was an attempt at total reconstruction of society in the image of the Blacks. It was an island-wide conspiracy to obtain their freedom by overthrowing the planter class. Another critical factor was that the rebellion, although prematurely started, was sudden and unexpected. Whites generally believed their slaves, not having attempted any insurrections since the late 1600s, would run away rather than undertake armed revolt.
It was the extremely careful planning of Bussa and his confederates, including Washington Franklin, that created this element of surprise. The planning was undertaken at a number of sugar estates, including Bayley's at which Bussa was head ranger. It is now accepted by most historians that Bussa was the principal conspirator and that other revolutionaries included Nanny Grigg, a senior domestic slave on Simmons' estate, and other black officers such as tradesmen, artisans and drivers planned the uprising.
Preparation for the rebellion began soon after the House of Assembly discussed and rejected the Imperial Registry Bill in November 1815. By February 1816, the decision had been taken that the revolt should take place in April, at Easter. That much seems definite and it is further established that Bussa was given the position of leader and commander in the field.
But who, really, was Bussa? The evidence confirms that he was born in Africa. Historians further claim that he was not a young man since the Slave Trade was abolished in 1807, and in general, it took at least ten years for Africans to acquire the language and managerial skills, in addition to their masters' confidence, in order to become a member of the elite slave personnel on estates. Bussa, therefore, apparently enjoyed such confidence and respect.
He led the slaves into battle at Bayley's on Tuesday, April 16. He commanded some 400 freedom fighters against troops of the First West India Regiment and, like José Marti in Cuba, was killed in battle. His troops continued the fight until they were defeated by superior fire power. It is to their credit and because of Bussa's supreme example, even to the point of self-sacrifice, that the Barbadian slaves continued their resistance. It is reported that many went into battle shouting the name of Bussa.
The rebellion failed, but the name of Bussa lived on. In 1985, a full 169 years after that rebellion, when the Emancipation Statue was unveiled, many Barbadians identified it with Bussa in honour of the famous warrior who led the fight in the remarkable 1816 revolt. In the folk memory and consciousness of Barbadians, Bussa still lives.
The Spanish and their slaves fell upon Jamaica and used it as a base for their conquest in the Americas, particularly of Mexico in search of the treasures of gold and silver. The core population of the Spanish and their slaves was primarily centered in a Jamaican area they called "Town of Santiago le la Vega" which would centuries later be named "Spanish Town". The architecture of original buildings is still evident today.
In 1655 the British captured Jamaica from the Spanish who did little to defend its occupation because Jamaica offered no riches of gold and silver. The Spanish fled Jamaica to other areas of the Caribbean, Mexico and South America in pursuit of riches and new conquests. Before fleeing they released and armed their slaves that became known as "Maroons". The Maroons mostly sought refuge from the British in the Jamaican area just south of what is known today as Montego Bay. As fierce defenders, the Maroons were never controlled by the British and even became self-governing in some areas.
Production of cane sugar became the economic and political strength of the Jamaican British Colony. Sugar plantations dominated Jamaican life and led to massive importation of slaves from Africa to provide manual labor and comforts to the plantation owners. Newfound prosperity led to extensive trade among other Caribbean Islands, Jamaica and England, not only in sugar trade and other manufactured goods, but in slave trade as well.
The sugar plantations dominated economic and political life in Jamaica in every sense. They occupied the best lands and the laws supported the slave system which motivated many slaves to escape to the mountains to become Maroons as well.
To combat the growing unrest of rebellious slaves, an uneasy alliance was established between the plantation owners and the governor who represented the crown royalty of England. The alliance became progressively weakened because of excessive taxation on the plantations. Motivated by Jamaican heroes such as Rev. Sam Sharpe and incited by rebellions of which the Christmas Rebellion is perhaps the most famous, emancipation of the Jamaican slaves eventually occurred.
After emancipation, ex-slaves dispersed to mountain areas far from the Jamaican plantations. Many began cultivating new crops including coffee and bananas. Others settled marginally productive lands that were either leased or bought through the efforts of Christian groups, particularly the Baptists. During this period of peasant history of about 1838-1938, there were many struggles and battles over land.
The following periods beyond 1938 experienced major political changes and economical transformation. No longer was Jamaica a single export economy of sugar. The Jamaican economy became diversified into other agricultural products as well as the export of bauxite and alumni. Gradually, tourism became a leading industry as the world discovered the beauty and attractions of Jamaica. The political and economic strength of the overwhelming majority of descendants of the ex-slaves became the stimulation of achieving political independence from England in 1962.
But We are not african...We are Spanish/Portuguese/Greek/Indian
Nationality: Noun and adjective--Vincentian.
Population (2002 est.): 115,000.
Annual growth rate (1998): 0.1%.
Ethnic groups: African descent (66%), mixed (19%), West Indian (6%), Carib Indian (2%).
Religions: Anglican (47%), Methodist (28%), Roman Catholic (13%), other Protestant denominations, Seventh-day Adventist, Hindu.
Language: English (official); some French Patois spoken.
Education: Literacy--98%. Years compulsory--up to age 15.
Health (1998): Infant mortality rate--22.2/1,000. Life expectancy--females 72 yrs.; males--68 yrs.
Work force: About 40,000. Agriculture--60%.
Trindad is the larger of the twin island state of Trinidad and Tobago. Although, only, eleven miles apart they are two very different islands. Trinidad is an oil-rich island that is highly commercialised and fettered with a lot of traits of a anglo-western society. Tobago on the other hand is a laid-back island still with a rural society with tourism its main industrial activity. This is a result of two entirely differnt colonial histories. Trinidad had a fairly stable colonial history first Spanish and then English. Its size made the Sugar Industry more profitably. When Sugar Market in Europe collapsed the Petroleum Industry was there to keep the foreign interest and presence. So unlike Tobago it was necessary to replace the freed slaves, hence the Indian Indentured Labourers, Chinese and Lebonese immigration was implemented to provide the much needed labour. Following Emancipation the African ex-slaves were only to happy to leave the plantations in memories of Slavery. They migrated to the towns and industries, then Petroleum etc. in search of freedom and paid jobs. However, after Emancipation Neo-Colonialism the now landless African slaves became the poor lower class with a few seep into the middle class by virtue of Education. The Indentured laboures and post slavery immigrants easily becoming the new entrepreneurs while the Africans were preoccupied with shedding the slave past and the bound to the Land. Today Trinidad has high level of crime, poverty with the classic three tares of social classes emersed in very vibrant Caribbean Artistc culture/industry where its leader in Calypso, Steelband and Carnival.
I think that is enough information...hopefully I have proved that Africans make up more than 1% of the Caribbean
Ras
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 14:30 |
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lol cmon now....this is the BNV
you outta know west indians get no love here...
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YankeeJamaRican
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 16:11 |
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Hold it down, Ras!! 
I wondered how long Mr "True" and "Pure" African (DI) would be allowed to show his @ss up the tree. That's ok though, we all know that the descendants of slaves are from the strongest and toughest to survive over their adversity... no shame in being one, quite the contrary!
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stick-upKid
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 17:47 |
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This thread is becoming distateful.
Either chill out of F*ck off.
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 17:53 |
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oh and I see you have raised the tone with your usual brand of net bravery.
dont you know telling people to F off on the internet doesnt work...afterall they are not even near you to begin with.
Last edited on Saturday May 13th, 2006 17:54 by
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YankeeJamaRican
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 18:06 |
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Ironic, innit?... people take a dump in the middle of the street then complain about the smell.
I was hoping this thread would suffer a well deserved demise.
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Miss Nellia
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 18:12 |
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disco_inferno wrote: Miss Nellia wrote:
@disco
I purpose that was meant to be an insult or something of the sort. Don't open a can of worms that you aint about to face.
The tone was not actually derogatory. She was stating differences, and I simply added one more difference that came to mind. Girl, you can bring it on. I have had it all thrown at me, try looking at previous threads. And the end, the true and pure comes out free.
The shame about you is that comment speak volumes about you!!!! and the real joke is that you think you've insulted someone, sadly mistaken. You didn't like what what Mz Price said so your come back was something that shows up your ignorance..... AND YOU WANT ME TO LOOK AT YOUR PAST POSTS....
I can't think of anymore more boring AND a waste of my precious time to do, I prefer to count leaves on the tree outside my house than read your threads sorry, maybe some else might be interested in you and what you have to say, but I aint..
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stick-upKid
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 18:25 |
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Black_power wrote: oh and I see you have raised the tone with your usual brand of net bravery.
dont you know telling people to F off on the internet doesnt work...afterall they are not even near you to begin with.
---
LOL
It was a joke. Damn ppl are higly strung today.
You'll give yourselves high blood pressure.
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Miss Nellia
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 18:28 |
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Rastawoman wrote: Obal85 you are another poster whos ignorance surprises me. Not sure what you meant by that post by it reads almost as if we're somehow dirty for being enslaved whilst you remain up above somewhere as a puritan. Very sad.
Yet again not a mod in site when they're supposed to be.
Le Moor
do you know what makes me angry...the fact that I have always been taught to look to Africa, Africa my true home, Zion. But from what i'm beginning to learn on BNV...alot of Africans do not have any respect for West Indians, some on here seem to love to point out that they look down on us and our struggle, coming up with statistics that are completly disrespectful and untrue, trying to tell me that MY history that I learnt is ish...no one on here can make me question my faith, roots or culture, but it is still very sad to learn that certain people do not except West Indians as African and even go as far as saying that we as a people are ashamed to be black, lmao. Some history for all of you that doubt our heritage
1644 . 1700 . Sugar and Slavery
A potential market formed for slaves and sugar-making machinery by the Dutch Merchants who were to supply Barbados with their requirements of forced labour from West Africa. The slaves came from Sierra Leone, Guinea, Ghana, the Ivory Coast, Nigeria and Cameroon
BUSSA
???? - 1816
Biographical Information
In history, he is recorded as Bussa, or Busso or Bussoe. But whatever his original and true name, there is no doubt that he is the most fascinating freedom fighter in the annals of Barbados.
Like thousands of his countrymen, he was born a free man in Africa, but was captured and brought to Barbados in the late 18th Century as a slave.
From that lowly status, he emerged to be celebrated in the folk memory of Barbadians as the man who struck a resounding blow for freedom by leading Barbados' longest slave revolt in April 1816 against racist and oppressive white Barbadian planters. That rebellion has been known to generations of Barbadians as Bussa's Rebellion, a testimony to the perceived transcendent importance of Bussa himself as the major militant leader of the rebel slaves in the actual fighting, and as one of the major planners and organisers of the slave revolt.
Despite the enormous significance of the role he played, mystery surrounds Bussa. There is no reference to him in the records of Barbados' plantations and, until 1816, we did not know he existed. Then suddenly there is the 1816 Rebellion and Bussa becomes real and a threat to white powers in the island.
That Rebellion, which began on Sunday, April 14, 1816, was the first slave uprising in this island for 124 years; the previous taking place in 1692. In the words of historian, Professor Hilary Beckles, it represented an attempt by the slaves to assert some influence on the general abolitionist politics of the time. What distinguished this rebellion from many of the others was that it was not a spontaneous exercise, but rather a calculated blow for freedom, planned, organised and executed by elite slaves on several Barbadian estates.
The facts show that this event was not just a brief historical spasm. Evidence gathered from the captured slaves revealed that the uprising was an attempt at total reconstruction of society in the image of the Blacks. It was an island-wide conspiracy to obtain their freedom by overthrowing the planter class. Another critical factor was that the rebellion, although prematurely started, was sudden and unexpected. Whites generally believed their slaves, not having attempted any insurrections since the late 1600s, would run away rather than undertake armed revolt.
It was the extremely careful planning of Bussa and his confederates, including Washington Franklin, that created this element of surprise. The planning was undertaken at a number of sugar estates, including Bayley's at which Bussa was head ranger. It is now accepted by most historians that Bussa was the principal conspirator and that other revolutionaries included Nanny Grigg, a senior domestic slave on Simmons' estate, and other black officers such as tradesmen, artisans and drivers planned the uprising.
Preparation for the rebellion began soon after the House of Assembly discussed and rejected the Imperial Registry Bill in November 1815. By February 1816, the decision had been taken that the revolt should take place in April, at Easter. That much seems definite and it is further established that Bussa was given the position of leader and commander in the field.
But who, really, was Bussa? The evidence confirms that he was born in Africa. Historians further claim that he was not a young man since the Slave Trade was abolished in 1807, and in general, it took at least ten years for Africans to acquire the language and managerial skills, in addition to their masters' confidence, in order to become a member of the elite slave personnel on estates. Bussa, therefore, apparently enjoyed such confidence and respect.
He led the slaves into battle at Bayley's on Tuesday, April 16. He commanded some 400 freedom fighters against troops of the First West India Regiment and, like José Marti in Cuba, was killed in battle. His troops continued the fight until they were defeated by superior fire power. It is to their credit and because of Bussa's supreme example, even to the point of self-sacrifice, that the Barbadian slaves continued their resistance. It is reported that many went into battle shouting the name of Bussa.
The rebellion failed, but the name of Bussa lived on. In 1985, a full 169 years after that rebellion, when the Emancipation Statue was unveiled, many Barbadians identified it with Bussa in honour of the famous warrior who led the fight in the remarkable 1816 revolt. In the folk memory and consciousness of Barbadians, Bussa still lives.
The Spanish and their slaves fell upon Jamaica and used it as a base for their conquest in the Americas, particularly of Mexico in search of the treasures of gold and silver. The core population of the Spanish and their slaves was primarily centered in a Jamaican area they called "Town of Santiago le la Vega" which would centuries later be named "Spanish Town". The architecture of original buildings is still evident today.
In 1655 the British captured Jamaica from the Spanish who did little to defend its occupation because Jamaica offered no riches of gold and silver. The Spanish fled Jamaica to other areas of the Caribbean, Mexico and South America in pursuit of riches and new conquests. Before fleeing they released and armed their slaves that became known as "Maroons". The Maroons mostly sought refuge from the British in the Jamaican area just south of what is known today as Montego Bay. As fierce defenders, the Maroons were never controlled by the British and even became self-governing in some areas.
Production of cane sugar became the economic and political strength of the Jamaican British Colony. Sugar plantations dominated Jamaican life and led to massive importation of slaves from Africa to provide manual labor and comforts to the plantation owners. Newfound prosperity led to extensive trade among other Caribbean Islands, Jamaica and England, not only in sugar trade and other manufactured goods, but in slave trade as well.
The sugar plantations dominated economic and political life in Jamaica in every sense. They occupied the best lands and the laws supported the slave system which motivated many slaves to escape to the mountains to become Maroons as well.
To combat the growing unrest of rebellious slaves, an uneasy alliance was established between the plantation owners and the governor who represented the crown royalty of England. The alliance became progressively weakened because of excessive taxation on the plantations. Motivated by Jamaican heroes such as Rev. Sam Sharpe and incited by rebellions of which the Christmas Rebellion is perhaps the most famous, emancipation of the Jamaican slaves eventually occurred.
After emancipation, ex-slaves dispersed to mountain areas far from the Jamaican plantations. Many began cultivating new crops including coffee and bananas. Others settled marginally productive lands that were either leased or bought through the efforts of Christian groups, particularly the Baptists. During this period of peasant history of about 1838-1938, there were many struggles and battles over land.
The following periods beyond 1938 experienced major political changes and economical transformation. No longer was Jamaica a single export economy of sugar. The Jamaican economy became diversified into other agricultural products as well as the export of bauxite and alumni. Gradually, tourism became a leading industry as the world discovered the beauty and attractions of Jamaica. The political and economic strength of the overwhelming majority of descendants of the ex-slaves became the stimulation of achieving political independence from England in 1962.
But We are not african...We are Spanish/Portuguese/Greek/Indian
Nationality: Noun and adjective--Vincentian.
Population (2002 est.): 115,000.
Annual growth rate (1998): 0.1%.
Ethnic groups: African descent (66%), mixed (19%), West Indian (6%), Carib Indian (2%).
Religions: Anglican (47%), Methodist (28%), Roman Catholic (13%), other Protestant denominations, Seventh-day Adventist, Hindu.
Language: English (official); some French Patois spoken.
Education: Literacy--98%. Years compulsory--up to age 15.
Health (1998): Infant mortality rate--22.2/1,000. Life expectancy--females 72 yrs.; males--68 yrs.
Work force: About 40,000. Agriculture--60%.
Trindad is the larger of the twin island state of Trinidad and Tobago. Although, only, eleven miles apart they are two very different islands. Trinidad is an oil-rich island that is highly commercialised and fettered with a lot of traits of a anglo-western society. Tobago on the other hand is a laid-back island still with a rural society with tourism its main industrial activity. This is a result of two entirely differnt colonial histories. Trinidad had a fairly stable colonial history first Spanish and then English. Its size made the Sugar Industry more profitably. When Sugar Market in Europe collapsed the Petroleum Industry was there to keep the foreign interest and presence. So unlike Tobago it was necessary to replace the freed slaves, hence the Indian Indentured Labourers, Chinese and Lebonese immigration was implemented to provide the much needed labour. Following Emancipation the African ex-slaves were only to happy to leave the plantations in memories of Slavery. They migrated to the towns and industries, then Petroleum etc. in search of freedom and paid jobs. However, after Emancipation Neo-Colonialism the now landless African slaves became the poor lower class with a few seep into the middle class by virtue of Education. The Indentured laboures and post slavery immigrants easily becoming the new entrepreneurs while the Africans were preoccupied with shedding the slave past and the bound to the Land. Today Trinidad has high level of crime, poverty with the classic three tares of social classes emersed in very vibrant Caribbean Artistc culture/industry where its leader in Calypso, Steelband and Carnival.
I think that is enough information...hopefully I have proved that Africans make up more than 1% of the Caribbean
Ras
Ras
You are dealing with inepts so please don't expect too much, stay exactly as you are, you put many of them to shame with your intelligence and your pride in who you are.... you come with facts and they come with hate and lies. Good thing we come from a LOOOOOOOONG line of proud people. Brave and strong.
As for your statement that you are surprised at their hate for us, welcome to BNV.
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stick-upKid
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Posted: Saturday May 13th, 2006 18:29 |
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Its seems like this place is going down the drain.
People are too eager to start beefs or rekindle old ones. What the f**k.
You people man, your souls must be burning right now. So much anger up in the place.
I guess when if you had better sh*t to worry about....like life... then you wouldnt take my ramblings so seriously.
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They want you to Forgive Injustice.
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