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BlackMatta
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 10:01 |
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The New BNV Zone thread raised a few questions in my mind. The most important was due to the post by Kunjufu which said -
Sorry but this is not a thread to debate the merits of other ideas this thread is ONLY for the discussion of name of the new parenting zone..
all off topic posts will now be removed..
**Comments&Suggestions forum is here:
http://www.bnvillage.co.uk/forum11/
My first question is this -
Given that the proposal itself is in the OPEN Forum and NOT in the Comments & Suggestions Forum is it appropriate to demand critical responses are place there?
Secondly, the opening post implies that certain decisions have already been taken -
Only thing is we need a name for it.
below are the suggestions recieved so far
List of ideas thus far for new BNV zone...
Is there a link to the original proposal so we can all see how this has become the "only thing" left and who came up with the "ideas thus far"? I note the Request for Lesbian and Gay Zone took a more conventional route - through the Comments & Suggestions Forum where it is being thoroughly discussed.
Then thirdly...
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BlackMatta
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 10:15 |
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I made a central point, without pointing a finger, concerning how such a Forum may be presented. I wrote -
Given the nature of the proposed zone, why is this thread in the Women's Forum?
This was the response from Kunjufu -
Hmm that is a point however..that is not the question being asked here..can I once again ask that people respect the purpose of the thread, that is to make suggestions on the name of the new forum.. any other discussions or queries can be made either in a new thread or Pm'ed direct to the moderation team...thank you
Why such a rigid stipulation? The point is not just to get the thread moved but to question the intended nature of the proposed forum. After all what are we naming? Is in not correct that everyone should be forewarned of a possible key misrepresentation, however unintentional, especially when the exclusion of men in bringing up children has been so radically debated elsewhere.
My question was a single point and not opening up any sidetrack to the thread.
Kunjufu, I ask you, what was the point of your rigid response?
Are fair points not better made in the open where everyone can see and in the major forum?
Matta.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 10:22 |
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BlackMatta: Ok the point is this we are going to start a new zone on parenting and childcare...we started a thread to canvass thoughts on the name for this new zone... thats it.. where the thread is situated is of no consequence, thoughts of whether there should a men & motors section is not appropriate as its clerarly not what is being asked...
The debate on whether Gay and Lesbian zone should be considered was started when one poster attempted to hijack the naming of the parent & child zone for their own agenda, so rather than just shut down THAt debate I restarted elsewhwere to allow legitimate debate on that issue...I stress the point DEBATE on that issue...
Now whatr is it that you're still confused about?
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BlackMatta
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 10:27 |
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Thank you Kunjufu, that was a quick response. There was a lot to take in in my posts. To start with, perhaps you can tackle the bit in red in my first post?
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 10:32 |
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Given that the proposal itself is in the OPEN Forum and NOT in the Comments & Suggestions Forum is it appropriate to demand critical responses are place there?
YES
Hmm that is a point however..that is not the question being asked here..can I once again ask that people respect the purpose of the thread, that is to make suggestions on the name of the new forum.. any other discussions or queries can be made either in a new thread or Pm'ed direct to the moderation team...thank you
The above was to remind people to stay on topic and to make suggestions of how they can appropriately raise their thoughts elsewhere..
however unintentional,
The case for a parent zone has been already been made, at this point I'm not asking the obvious question about whether this would be a good idea or whether there is a need for it.. The purpose of the thread in question is ask for suggestions on the NAME for the new zone..
Ok anything else you're still confused about?
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BlackMatta
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 10:38 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Given that the proposal itself is in the OPEN Forum and NOT in the Comments & Suggestions Forum is it appropriate to demand critical responses are place there?
YES
Frank, but naive I would suggest.
Hmm that is a point however..that is not the question being asked here..can I once again ask that people respect the purpose of the thread, that is to make suggestions on the name of the new forum.. any other discussions or queries can be made either in a new thread or Pm'ed direct to the moderation team...thank you
The above was to remind people to stay on topic and to make suggestions of how they can appropriately raise their thoughts elsewhere..
however unintentional,
The case for a parent zone has been already been made, at this point I'm not asking the obvious question about whether this would be a good idea or whether there is a need for it.. The purpose of the thread in question is ask for suggestions on the NAME for the new zone..
Ok anything else you're still confused about?
Don't forget that you haven't let on about anything for me to be confused about.
The case didn't make itself. So who did and where? Was it done with the participation of members?
Matta.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 10:43 |
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Blackmatta:
1st question niave, how so?
2nd question can you read? If so can i suggest you run on down to the Pregnancy lets discuss thread... this 300 plus post thread demostrated beyond doubt that there is a natural progression to develop a zone for all things parenting..
Now again i ask what else are you confused about?
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 11:04 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Blackmatta:
1st question niave, how so?
Direct but bad policy in my opinion.
2nd question can you read? If so can i suggest you run on down to the Pregnancy lets discuss thread... this 300 plus post thread demostrated beyond doubt that there is a natural progression to develop a zone for all things parenting..
Still, it would be wise to recognise the difference between your personal opinion and indisputable fact so that you can at least present your decisions in a more pragmatic fashion.
Now again i ask what else are you confused about?
I think you may be confused. You may be reacting to elements of my post which exist only in your mind.
I think the suggested forum is a very good idea and I hope it takes off in a healthy and balanced way.
You created a post about "learning the lessons". I have to admit, I did not contribute because I did not believe much would be learnt. Kunjufu, my post is about presentation and getting the balance of openness correct, even when you personally believe your decisions are without question.
Now, something gives me the feeling you are itching to lock the thread once it is "done"....and make it disappear.....
Matta.
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 11:33 |
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BlackMatta wrote:Direct but bad policy in my opinion.
Bad policy how so please elaborate?
Still, it would be wise to recognise the difference between your personal opinion and indisputable fact so that you can at least present your decisions in a more pragmatic fashion.
'Wise' blackmatta...can i ask did you ACTUALLY read the Pregnancy thread or did you just skim through it...because if you had..you would have realise that this isn't MY OPINION... Also if you had bothered to read the whole thread you would have known that I was in fact responding to a naturally occurring need and by the members here and NOT imposing my thoughts, views or needs on anyone..
I think you may be confused. You may be reacting to elements of my post which exist only in your mind.
I think the suggested forum is a very good idea and I hope it takes off in a healthy and balanced way.
You created a post about "learning the lessons". I have to admit, I did not contribute because I did not believe much would be learnt. Kunjufu, my post is about presentation and getting the balance of openness correct, even when you personally believe your decisions are without question.
Now, something gives me the feeling you are itching to lock the thread once it is "done"....and make it disappear.....
Matta.
Actually Blackmatta, i would suggest that your projecting here, you've asked several nonsensical questions I've responded in detail to each qyestion asked... The fact is you don't like the response ok fair enough.. but please do not project what i might or might not do..what you you've not been entirely straight in your behaviour..
What gets on my nerves if I'm honest is dishonesty...you talk about 'openess' when the agenda of this thread has been anything but... What did you call this thread' and what was the premise that you wrote that underpins what it was intended to do?
Listen just admit you got it wrong..you THOUGHT wrongly that I was being the big I am..and now you realise that in fact you got it badly wrong..just admit it and stop with the provarication...The fact is Blackmatta you clearly weren't following the Prenancy thread as many have on BNV or else you would have known why the original thread existed in the first place..
And if we're talking about 'learning lessons' then I suggest its a two way street, where people really need to GROW UP.. and take some responsibilty If someone starts a thread on Cars..how does it make sense to start talking about horses...? That not a matter about 'presentation' its a matter that thepremise of the THREAD was clear, your intervention on that thread was at best confusing, your behaviour since then equally confusing...and your whole contrived non argument absolutely confusing...and a total contradiction..
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 12:25 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Bad policy how so please elaborate?
'Wise' blackmatta...can i ask did you ACTUALLY read the Pregnancy thread or did you just skim through it...because if you had..you would have realise that this isn't MY OPINION...
In direct answer to the question, I only referred to the 10 page thread after reading the proposal. If your point is that I should read in detail 300 posts about pregnancy, I think it is off the mark. Clarity and ease of accessibility to origin of decisions is the precise point I am making.
Now, I note the proponents were MBD, LadyDay, BB and Maat. Four women (surprising on the Women's Forum). Albeit a good idea, do you think it got good airing in a pregnancy thread on the Women's Forum?
Notwithstanding, I am talking about the decision NOT the proposal. Who made the decision?
Also if you had bothered to read the whole thread you would have known that I was in fact responding to a naturally occurring need and by the members here and NOT imposing my thoughts, views or needs on anyone..
Actually Blackmatta, i would suggest that your projecting here, you've asked several nonsensical questions I've responded in detail to each qyestion asked... The fact is you don't like the response ok fair enough.. but please do not project what i might or might not do..what you you've not been entirely straight in your behaviour..
What gets on my nerves if I'm honest is dishonesty...you talk about 'openess' when the agenda of this thread has been anything but... What did you call this thread' and what was the premise that you wrote that underpins what it was intended to do?
Listen just admit you got it wrong..you THOUGHT wrongly that I was being the big I am..and now you realise that in fact you got it badly wrong..just admit it and stop with the provarication...The fact is Blackmatta you clearly weren't following the Prenancy thread as many have on BNV or else you would have known why the original thread existed in the first place..
I don't pretend I followed the pregnancy thread and it doesn't explain how the proposal became a decision.
"Big I am?". Not seen it and don't believe you do it. Your position demands you make certain decisions, and personally have no issue with any decision, however "autocratic". It is wise to explain the process though. I believe you made that decision and a) wanted to keep the thread on track and b) were wary of negativity.
I question the way you went about it and I do not believe you paid proper attention to the origin and exposure of the idea before making it decision. Hence it comes across as a backroom decision. I am talking of presentation, Kunjufu. I am surprised you still don't get it.
And if we're talking about 'learning lessons' then I suggest its a two way street, where people really need to GROW UP.. and take some responsibilty If someone starts a thread on Cars..how does it make sense to start talking about horses...?
In any forum I believe there are procedural points which should be allowed to be interposed. These are quite distinct from deviation from subject.
That not a matter about 'presentation' its a matter that thepremise of the THREAD was clear, your intervention on that thread was at best confusing, your behaviour since then equally confusing...and your whole contrived non argument absolutely confusing...and a total contradiction..
I realise you are confused. I can only ask you to read my posts again and try and understand my points. You asked for other comments to be made in the Comments & Suggestions Forum. Nobody did that. You must know as well as I that some see that as a dead end or implying the New Forum a foregone conclusion, so why argue.
Matta.
Try to ignore my style and focus on the points, otherwise emotion will surface.
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 13:10 |
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Blackmatta: Sorry to press this issue, the confusion is NOT mine..but yours I'm not getting the whole point of this exercise...and it appears to me that your contriving an issue where none exists..
You've admitted that you did not follow the pregnancy thread therefore it is obvious that that you clearly didn't understand where the origins of the new parent zone came from... That i suggest is not a problem of the moderation team, but you failure to do the basics like either informing yourself or asking apprpriate questions BEFORE making objections surely..
I'm also still at a loss to understand why it would be such an issue that a thread is in the 'women's section'..again your point here is confused and lacks sense..
You then move onto how the decision was made... what is the point here? The thread is not being imposed over objections, it is being facilitated as a natural development from the pregnancy thread... so I'll ask yet again what exactly is your objection to the creation of this new Zone...because I'm not getting this at all?
Further you state: Your position demands you make certain decisions, and personally have no issue with any decision, however "autocratic". It is wise to explain the process though. I believe you made that decision and a) wanted to keep the thread on track and b) were wary of negativity
Blackmatta: where does it say anywhere on this Village the exact description of my role, because I'm curious.. and what exactly is your point here..you are NOT making sense at all?
You then went onto to state: I question the way you went about it and I do not believe you paid proper attention to the origin and exposure of the idea before making it decision. Hence it comes across as a backroom decision. I am talking of presentation, Kunjufu. I am surprised you still don't get it.
Blackmatta: Two points...you've already admitted that you didn't follow the aforementioned thread.. If you had you would know that the first part of this nonsense is absolutely rubbish so please!!!.. But I would readily confess that many of the decisions taken on BNV are Backroom decisions I've never hidden that fact and I've been more than upfront on that issue..for example it was a backrom decision NOT to encourage IR debates here despite the fact that many would love to have them here... so my point is we are obviously influenced by public opinion, but we do not run BNV by public opinion is that clearer for you now..
As for this addition confusion about procedural points..WHAT!!!? Look BM..cut to the chase be honest and stop with all this double talk....be honest state what exactly is YOUR problem...?
Last edited on Sunday January 29th, 2006 13:11 by Kunjufu
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 13:37 |
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Kunjufu wrote: You've admitted that you did not follow the pregnancy thread therefore it is obvious that that you clearly didn't understand where the origins of the new parent zone came from...
Hence my initial question...Is there a link to the original proposal so we can all see how this has become the "only thing" left and who came up with the "ideas thus far"? ....( You asked me earlier if I could read?)
Simple answer...Page 10 of the 300 post pregnancy thread in the Women's Forum. More useful than..."The pregnancy thread has inspired a new forum section"
That i suggest is not a problem of the moderation team, but you failure to do the basics like either informing yourself or asking apprpriate questions BEFORE making objections surely..
I'm also still at a loss to understand why it would be such an issue that a thread is in the 'women's section'..again your point here is confused and lacks sense..
Readers can assess the points made even if you do not understand.
You then move onto how the decision was made... what is the point here? The thread is not being imposed over objections, it is being facilitated as a natural development from the pregnancy thread...
My question, which you have been skirting round is "who's idea of natural?". It is a simple question. It is you who is prevaricating.
so I'll ask yet again what exactly is your objection to the creation of this new Zone...because I'm not getting this at all?
You have not read/understood, or you have forgotten. I said, in my opinion, the new zone is a good idea.
Further you state: Your position demands you make certain decisions, and personally have no issue with any decision, however "autocratic". It is wise to explain the process though. I believe you made that decision and a) wanted to keep the thread on track and b) were wary of negativity
Blackmatta: where does it say anywhere on this Village the exact description of my role, because I'm curious.. and what exactly is your point here..you are NOT making sense at all?
It is called common sense.
You then went onto to state: I question the way you went about it and I do not believe you paid proper attention to the origin and exposure of the idea before making it decision. Hence it comes across as a backroom decision. I am talking of presentation, Kunjufu. I am surprised you still don't get it.
Blackmatta: Two points...you've already admitted that you didn't follow the aforementioned thread.. If you had you would know that the first part of this nonsense is absolutely rubbish so please!!!.. But I would readily confess that many of the decisions taken on BNV are Backroom decisions
At last. Simple answer to a simple question. "A backroom decision".
That's all I needed to know...
I've never hidden that fact and I've been more than upfront on that issue..for example it was a backrom decision NOT to encourage IR debates here despite the fact that many would love to have them here... so my point is we are obviously influenced by public opinion, but we do not run BNV by public opinion is that clearer for you now..
...and that backroom decisions are policy.
As for this addition confusion about procedural points..WHAT!!!? Look BM..cut to the chase be honest and stop with all this double talk....be honest state what exactly is YOUR problem...?
Procedural point? Like when you say "stick to the subject matter". That is a procedural point. Ensuring that debate is fair. I make no judgement about your apparent ignorance on this.
Thank you Kunjufu
I hope the thread remains where everybody can see it to judge for themselves.
In summary -
An idea for a new forum originated in a thread about preganancy in the Women's Forum. Naming the New Forum got exposure in the Open Forum. Arguments against the idea were directed to the Comments & Suggestions Forum.
I believe this to be bad procedure as the exposure of relative critical points automatically becomes biased and may reflect personal opinion while obscuring that very fact. I believe that lack of clarity to be politically manipulative.
My interposition on the New Forum thread was one question which led to it being placed in a more appropriate forum. Kunjufu had this to say...
"your intervention on that thread was at best confusing"
...while accusing me of dishonesty in presenting my case. I believe there is an inability on the part of admin to register certain important points.
This thread highlights a difference of opinion on what is good and bad procedure.
Matta.
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 14:20 |
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Taken from the guidelines..Blackmatta please read
Thread Hijacking Advisory: Keeping Threads on topic, if you wish to start a discussion on a new topic start a new THREAD, Villagers are also requested to keep to topic when responding; any off topic points will be removed without warning....
Blackmatta: Ok...then in summary I put it to you that this thread is not about clarification or a simple enquiry..I suggest this is you trying to be obtuse in the extreme for reasons best known only to yourself...otherwise why is this thread called 'Political manipulation' and underpinned with the words: Is the Comments & Suggestions Forum being used to silence debate? Does this suggest that the author is being open or honest..when he appears to be fishing for controvesy
You then raised the issue of why the Gay and lesbian debate was started in the Comment & suggestion forum..but quickly dropped that deadend argument as it had no obvious milage for your silly provarication..
Now you've moved onto this specific word 'natural' and its meaning...why? did they not teach you how to comprehend 'english' at school or what? ..if you agree that its a good idea then what pray tell was the point of your hijacking of the Parent zone naming debate? This point STILL REMAINS UNCLEAR.. Whjat was the point of this thread..that point remain UNCLEAR?
You then try unsuccessfully to bring in some alleged prescriptive discription of what YOU imagine my role to be, when I ask you to elaborate..you run for cover under the blanket of ambiguity..by then suggesting that you were talking 'common sense' ..sorry but 'common sense' to whom or is it fairer to suggest that you were once again looking for a vehicle on which to drive you silly agenda..
Now you attempt to feign surprise that decisions taken here has not had the full consultation of the members here...why.. This is nothing new, if you'd bothered to skim through the forum, you will see evidence where we have consulted and acted and evidence where we have acted without consultation, but more importantly where have i ever promised to ALWAYS consult on EVERY decision taken here?
Finally in respect of your less than 'fair' summary of what YOU felt took place... Allow me to again unconfuse you...as you appear confused on what actually happened.. The THREAD started by Ladyday inviting suggestions on the NAME for a new ZONE...was not and did NOT invite or ask for a Critical debate, if it did please cut n paste the exact passage where such views were invited?
Therefore it is NOt unreasonable to suggest that your intervention was NOT welcomed.... The intervention of two other posters also trying to 'hijack' the Thread was equally NOT welcomed... As is our stated policy all such unwelcomed action will be dealt with without WARNING... (did you actually read the Guidelines Blackmatta..I suspect not).
You are naturally entitled to your view as to whether it was good or 'bad' policy..that is your privilage.. However there was no bias in the way you have suggested, there was no manipulation as you have suggested..
because in the Case of the Gay & lesbian idea.. I clearly and obviously STARTED a new Thread to allow that idea to be aired... I also suggested alternative methods for others to air their view if they objected to the New zone... What was made clear however was that Thread Hijacking was not acceptable...
As for this silliness as to where the Thread should have been posted, Again this is an immaterial point, the fact that this thread was placed in the Women's thread is a really obtuse and stupid point...that has no merit what so ever....There is no bar for men entering their suggestions, nor has it been stated anywhere that there would be restriction on who could offer a view on that Thread..The only Stipulation I repeat was that it was a naming THREAD and not a Thread to DEBATE the merits of this zone..
So blackmatta..I wil repeat my view that you have been dishonest and that this thread is more about you trying create mischief....
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 14:39 |
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Is there a link to the original proposal so we can all see how this has become the "only thing" left and who came up with the "ideas thus far"?
BM, U complicated the whole thing, above question could have done the trick, and you Kunjufu haven't given an answer to the above simple question, your dancing around, I admit this could have been done in a PM or something.
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 14:49 |
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Bele wrote: Is there a link to the original proposal so we can all see how this has become the "only thing" left and who came up with the "ideas thus far"?
BM, U complicated the whole thing, above question could have done the trick, and you Kunjufu haven't given an answer to the above simple question, your dancing around, I admit this could have been done in a PM or something.
QUESTION ANSWER HERE PLEASE READ>>
Bele..Sorry but this is ridiculous..I've actually answer this question more than once...the answer can be found in the loink above....
However maybe you can tell me exactly what the problem is here, because In truth I'm copnfused by Blackmatta and this whole infantile episode..
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 15:14 |
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It aint ridiculous, when U could have given him a simple link or answer. The link does it for me. Why I say it needed a simple anwer on your part is that, these were your answers to his questions, mischief or not from his part.
"Is there a link to the original proposal so we can all see how this has become the "only thing" left and who came up with the "ideas thus far"? BM.
U Wrote,
"The case for a parent zone has been already been made"
"where the thread is situated is of no consequence"
"i suggest you run on down to the Pregnancy lets discuss thread..."
Last edited on Sunday January 29th, 2006 15:21 by Pele
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 15:19 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Blackmatta: Ok...then in summary I put it to you that this thread is not about clarification or a simple enquiry..I suggest this is you trying to be obtuse in the extreme for reasons best known only to yourself...otherwise why is this thread called 'Political manipulation' and underpinned with the words: Is the Comments & Suggestions Forum being used to silence debate? Does this suggest that the author is being open or honest..when he appears to be fishing for controvesy
How about me making the point for the last time. I'm happy to have the thread kept open and let others read and decide for themselves if you are (unless there is some other backroom policy I am unaware of)...
I believe you have been careless of and not given proper sensitivity to alternative view points on the matter of the New Forum. "Put it in the Comments & Suggestions Forum" clearly hasn't been greeted with enthusiasm and hasn't worked in this case. It quashed debate.
Allowing a suggestion to flourish in the open forum and redirecting counter-argument to the Comments & Suggestions Forum is a form of bias and manipulation. I cannot put it any simpler.
You then raised the issue of why the Gay and lesbian debate was started in the Comment & suggestion forum..but quickly dropped that deadend argument as it had no obvious milage for your silly provarication..
I did not see your response to that by the way! It was an example of a proposal for a new forum which was undergoing proper debate. My point was why the Parent's Forum didn't. Not complicated. I think you have become overly suspicious and hypersensitive where there is no need.
Now you've moved onto this specific word 'natural' and its meaning...why? did they not teach you how to comprehend 'english' at school or what?
I don't know if you are deliberately misconstruing, but I wasn't arguing about the meaning of the word at all. Read the section it again. It should be clear enough to most.
..if you agree that its a good idea then what pray tell was the point of your hijacking of the Parent zone naming debate?
The moderation team responded to my one line "hijacking" as you call it by moving the thread a more appropriate forum. Emotive language is throughout your replies. Why? Do you not have a reasonable point?
This point STILL REMAINS UNCLEAR.. Whjat was the point of this thread..that point remain UNCLEAR?
Other people will be able to separate the concepts of the content of the proposal and how the proposal was presented and debated if you give them the chance. You do not appear to be able to do so.
You then try unsuccessfully to bring in some alleged prescriptive discription of what YOU imagine my role to be, when I ask you to elaborate..you run for cover under the blanket of ambiguity..by then suggesting that you were talking 'common sense' ..sorry but 'common sense' to whom or is it fairer to suggest that you were once again looking for a vehicle on which to drive you silly agenda..
Common sense to me, of course. If your position does not demand your make any decisions say so. Happy to hear what you have to say.
Now you attempt to feign surprise that decisions taken here has not had the full consultation of the members here...why.. This is nothing new, if you'd bothered to skim through the forum, you will see evidence where we have consulted and acted and evidence where we have acted without consultation, but more importantly where have i ever promised to ALWAYS consult on EVERY decision taken here?
Off point again. You are really struggling and I believe it is genuine.
If you state clearly where the decisions come from and when they are without consultation, it will save us all time from responding to the request to post in the Comments & Suggestions Forum.
Finally in respect of your less than 'fair' summary of what YOU felt took place... Allow me to again unconfuse you...as you appear confused on what actually happened.. The THREAD started by Ladyday inviting suggestions on the NAME for a new ZONE...was not and did NOT invite or ask for a Critical debate, if it did please cut n paste the exact passage where such views were invited?
Therefore it is NOt unreasonable to suggest that your intervention was NOT welcomed.... The intervention of two other posters also trying to 'hijack' the Thread was equally NOT welcomed... As is our stated policy all such unwelcomed action will be dealt with without WARNING... (did you actually read the Guidelines Blackmatta..I suspect not).
Why then, did the moderation team respond to my "unwelcome" question by moving the thread? I am beginning to wonder if you remember my post in that forum which you described as "Hmm that is a point". Your inability to distinguish between my intervention and what you are calling "hijacking" is curious to say the least and dubious at worst.
You seem to be saying that a quick and simple request like getting a thread moved to the right forum needs to go through Comments & Suggestions even when the request is so straightforward.
You are naturally entitled to your view as to whether it was good or 'bad' policy..that is your privilage..
of course
However there was no bias in the way you have suggested, there was no manipulation as you have suggested..
because in the Case of the Gay & lesbian idea.. I clearly and obviously STARTED a new Thread to allow that idea to be aired... I also suggested alternative methods for others to air their view if they objected to the New zone... What was made clear however was that Thread Hijacking was not acceptable...
As for this silliness as to where the Thread should have been posted, Again this is an immaterial point, the fact that this thread was placed in the Women's thread is a really obtuse and stupid point...that has no merit what so ever....
On the thread itself you said, I quote..."Hmm that is a point".
Now you describe it as "really obtuse and stupid".
Who is not being straightforward?
There is no bar for men entering their suggestions, nor has it been stated anywhere that there would be restriction on who could offer a view on that Thread..The only Stipulation I repeat was that it was a naming THREAD and not a Thread to DEBATE the merits of this zone..
Some male posters might not look at that forum regularly. Besides I am not sure you are being honest with this point as you have completely contradicted yourself.
So blackmatta..I wil repeat my view that you have been dishonest and that this thread is more about you trying create mischief....
Kunjufu. Why not leave the post up and let people decide for themselves.
Matta.
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 15:24 |
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| Bele: with all due respects to you...but it is ridiculous I already told Blackmatta more than once how the decision was arrived at..I repeated myself several time asking if he HAD read the prenancy thread...yet he persist with this stupidness about 'process' when clearly it is clear for all to see what the process was...futher I fail to see what the PROBLEM is about starting a THREAD re parenting & children..what did i miss ?
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 15:31 |
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| OK.
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Posted: Sunday January 29th, 2006 16:15 |
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Bele: Ok lets go through this piece by piece....
The Thread in question opens with the simple premise that read thus:
The pregnancy thread has inspired a new forum section. It's purpose is not to be exclusively a womens zone It should be a zone aimed at parents raising children....that includes men/fathers.
Only thing is we need a name for it.
below are the suggestions recieved so far
List of ideas thus far for new BNV zone...
Blacknet parent and Child forum.
Mini BNv..
Little Talking room.
BNV parenting zone
Baby at BNV
Children's Zone..
if you like any of the above names please say which one, or if you have a suggestion for another name please say. We aim to choose the name by Monday. That way there is a space dedicated to parents and children.
Now you help me out here is the premise of this THREAD clear enough..is the origins of where this idea comes from clear enough....?
The prengancy link has been mentioned no less than 8 times on this THREAD alone..Blackmatta, SAID he had read it.. The process of how the idea came about is on Page 10..where one can clearly see how the idea developed at the end of the series of BNV preganacies...
Now Blackmatta comes out with this CONTRIVED argument that debate has been quashed...On the same BNV thread..I also wrote that people could EITHER start another debate or PM the Mod team directly... So how is the debate stifled?
Blackmatta..Goes onto state that I've not given proper consideration to 'sensitivelity and Alternative views' I've already SAID in reply to his direct questions on this THREAD that sometimes we are influenced by the members sometime we are not... Obviously given the greater numbers who contributed to this thread and expressed the preference, there WERE greater numbers clearly in Favour of this NEW zone..this is set against the 3 objections.. so on balance of numbers involved, where have we erred on this issue?
BlackMatta: again in true lazy style states that he does not see my views on the Gay & lesbian proposal... If he had READ the Thread properly he would see half way down the Thread..THAT I ACTUALLY said i wouldn't contribute either way..The reason for that I think are very OBVIOUS..
On the issue of Hijacking..I've posted the opening post of the BNV zone naming thread... Therefore I remake the point that I've made MANY times already on this THREAD..that it was NOT appropropriate for Blackmatta or others to attempt to start a debate on its merits when clearly that is not what was asked for... I accept he may not like it..but it doesn't give him the right to disrespect the direction of the Thread...I've made that same point countless times already..
So again I will again make the obvious points here..Blackmatta..obviously didn't like that his comments were removed..ok I hear that BUT the reason why this was done has been EXPLAIN several times ALREADY..
Blackmatta: Feels that an alternate view as to whether the Parenting zone should go ahead, wasn't given a 'proper' debate.. Again i hear that....
However I'm happy to inform people that I wasn't looking for 100% agreement on this issue, It had been determined that there is a need and we have quite rightly ACTED on that need... now if Blackmatta wants to calL it BACKROOM, FRONTROOM or any other sort of room decision..
Then fair enough BUT I've explain more than once how we arrived at this decision, I really do not see how this could be detrimental to BNV and once a name has been decided it will go ahead....
Finally he (BlackMatta) has attempted to make much of where the Thread was originally situated....Sorry but I cannot see that there is any credibility to this nonsense.. He found the Thread easily enough, as did other men, There is no conspiracy here..Simply because total AGREEMENT is not required to go ahead with th |
