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jai Guest
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Posted: Monday August 25th, 2003 05:58 |
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OK this might seem to be a bit contraversial but i am so DAMM fed up with brothas n sisitas going on about the state of Africa and how we need to help them in their plight.
Let them SUFFER. I'm not hating on Africa, don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful place with amazing and beautiful people. But as a decendent and a victim of the SLAVE TRADE i feel Africa has to go through the stage of punishment for the crimes she has commited against her own people. Africa sold her own strong brothers and sisters into slavery for PROFIT to be used to buy firearms to kill even more of her own people in trible wars. Great kingdoms such as Benin were affectively ruined because of this GREED. There is no doubt that slaverys legacy has and will have a large affect on present day Africa. God is truely punishing her for the crimes of the past. Until she faces up to these terrible crimes against BLOOD then there is no need for us to share our wealth and skills.
The Africans in the new world e.g USA and West Indies are much better of and enjoy a better standard of living compared with their cousins in "MOTHER" Africa. We are truly blessed i guess some good did come out of slavery.
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Kunjufu Villager

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Posted: Monday August 25th, 2003 07:09 |
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King Lobengula, the Ndebele King who claimed sovereignty over neighbouring Mashonaland, conquered by the Ndebele when his father, Mzilikazi, led his 'people north to escape the spears of Shaka Zulu and the guns of the voortrekkers.
The story of Rhodes's concession is tortuous and not particularly edifying, Lobengula was illiterate but highly intelligent. Like the victim of a Greek tragedy, he found himself caught in the toils. For years he had been besieged by concession hunters of various nationalities, including 'Boers. He recognized that his kingdom, blessed with a soil and climate superior to that of any of the other South African states, would be the next target for European expansion. Only its remoteness had saved it so far.
By 1888 the telegraphs and railways advancing to"Kimberley and Johannesburg pointed menacingly across the Limpopo. Lobengula had one of the most powerful armies of any African kingdom, perhaps 15,000 Ndebele and Shona warriors, organized in Impis like their-Zulu cousins, and subject to the same ferocious discipline. Their weapon, too, was the assegai, the short stabbing spear which had punctured the Queen's redcoats at lsandlwana. But Lobengula had no illusions about his chance of defending his kingdom_by force of arms, although some of his indunas(chiefs)-and most of -.the young.braves' were anxious to wash their spears in European blood, Lobengula had understood the lesson that the defeat of the Zulus at the battle of Ulundi in 1879 held for them all.
No African army, however brave or well disciplined, could survive long against Europeans armed with modern rifles, machine guns and artillery. Where were Cetshwayo and his boastful lmpis now? The best way to defend his people was by diplomacy, either playing off one set of Europeans against another, or by taking his cue from his enemy and rival, Khama, King of the Ngwato, who_had placed his country under British protection in 1885.But how to proceed?
Except pg 382, ‘The Scramble for Africa’ Thomas Pakenham 1992
In the case of Zimbabwe Jai.or Rhodesia as it was then called when Mashonaland & Matabeleland were forcibly combined in 1890.. According to the Europeanised accounts that I read Jai. The Boers and the British didn’t just take Zimbabwe.. First they (ie the representatives of Cecil Rhodes in competition with other European powers,) lied and then deceived (their words not mine,) the then King Lobengula out of his land,resources and people..
Cecil Rhodes then contrived and got rid of Lobengula when he begun to rigorously contested this deception and openly questioned and attacked this gross deception committed by Rhodes and his cohort (within the European framework)....
Rhodes having defeated( or slaughted to be more acurate) the Ndebele & Shona in a contrived conflict. Rhodes or more to the point the Charter company that actually took over Zimbabwe then parcelled out the stolen land to all (Europeans) comers and then purposly set up race laws to force the Nedebele & Shona to work as cheap labour (or indentured slaves,) for these Europeans.. The point I’m making is simple…Zimbabwe got its so called independence in 1980, its colonialist predecessor Rhodesia was established approx 1912…
So to put this point fully into perspective we are Not talking about 500, 400, 200 or even a 100 years ago, when the events documented above took place…..We are talking mere dacades ago.....decades.
To put it even more bluntly Africa does not need pity or for people to feel sorry for it, however it is silly and totally ludicris to talk of Africa and Africans being guilty of crimes or to then moralise from the comfort of 21st century England..
Jai forgive me but your analysis has the strong whiff of blinked Europeanism that carefully & consistently omits the reallity that if you assets strip, depopulate and then brutalise the people,( to keep them in line), for over sixty years (colonialism) & more than twenty years (neo colonialism.) You get exactly the mess that is present and endemic in Africa today simple..to then blame the effect instead of the cause seems to me to be strange back to front logic what say you eh?…
Last edited on Friday February 20th, 2004 21:27 by Kunjufu
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Azaadi Villager

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Posted: Tuesday August 26th, 2003 04:36 |
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@ Jai Hmmm.................reading your comment has made me think, and I have to say where is your sense of empathy and decency? I am moved by all plights in the world not just Africa, but Iraq, Kosovo, even to everday drama that occurs in England, America, and the West Indies. Jai, my heart bleeds for you because you have no sense of compassion, there are a lot of things that I do not like that have occured through history. But, to say the least I do not delight in anything negative that befalls anyone on this earth.
I am sorry that you have a hefty chip on your shoulder about slavery; ut I would challenge you to spend a few hours with a war victim in Sierra Leone, or a young girl who has been raped and kidnapped in Uganda by warlords and give them your highly dubious theory as to why their life is the way that it is. Capitalism and globalisation allow all of us in the West be living it up at the moment; and while you enjoy a cheap lifestyle with mass produced imports who do you think is suffering for you to enjoy that? You sit there and type all that you want and remember the same God who you thank for punishing Africa will one day punish you!
Last edited on Tuesday August 26th, 2003 04:40 by Azaadi
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chique Villager

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Posted: Friday August 29th, 2003 06:06 |
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| so u telling me that a 1 day old little girl should die of starvation in a first few days of her life just becuase of what her ancestors did. i see no right or justification in that. i bet if u were her mother u would see it totally differently. i can undrestand what u mean about what goes around comes around but aint that what heaven and hell is for? i dont know just throwing another bull into da china shop
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savage om Villager

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Posted: Friday August 29th, 2003 10:41 |
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Jai- this post reminds me of this conversation with this white friend I knew in high school. For some strange reason, he decided to hate asian people because of World War 2.
To this day, I'm not exactly sure he understood what his motivation was. I remember the issue itself was brought up because he started being rude to this one asian student (who wasn't even Japanese, and grew up in the United States-but hey, like it matters right?), and I decided to ask him what his problem was. He said that his grandfather fought in the war.
I said to him "you are aware that he's not even Japanese" to which he replied "I just don't like asians". I asked him a few questions about the war (like what specific conflict was grandfather in, was he injured, etc). If i remember correctly, he didn't know any details, but knew that his grandfather fought in the war, and was still alive- and coincidently didn't like Asians either. I was never able to talk him out of it.
You could diagnose 'racist by influence of parents', but I'm not exactly sure how to describe what his real problem was. Yeah- he held on to this belief, but we (group of friends) would always ask him questions about it, and he would continue to answer with these two dimensional answers-- typical synopsis 'grandad fought in war'. It was too obvious he hadn't really thought any of it through.
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Kareem Guest
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Posted: Friday August 29th, 2003 22:17 |
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Jai:
I can only IMAGING what type of Pandora's Box I'm opening by making this statement but..
Will you blame TODAY'S Africans for their father's sins of the PAST?
The first thing you must recognize is that MOST SLAVES WERE KIDNAPPED in raids and traded by tribal leaders rather than the general African population.
So you wouldn't even be able to blame all Africans DURING THAT TIME...let alone their moderns descendants, most of whom know nothing about what happend to OUR fathers.
Why must not jump the gun or to wild conclusions but ANALYSIS is the key to working out all problems, word is bond kid.
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Minx Guest
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Posted: Friday September 5th, 2003 05:36 |
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Let them SUFFER.
Yes bwoy! they are suffering!...from white man greed, black greed, tribal wars and neglect from those who can sleep warm under their duvet every nite!
Maybe we are the lucky ones not to be in amongst the misery, but to turn ur backs and act like it's really all the Motha land fault is sooo wrong! I know I alone cannot make right so many wrongs, but our history can't hide the fact that our blood lies in that soil. So to be nasty towards it and act like my s**t don't smell won't & cannot make us turn up our noses to dem!
We can understand ur anger, but don't let the red shade ur eyes to the real truth!
Peace be wid u Bro...coz u need it!
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JC Guest
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Posted: Friday September 5th, 2003 16:56 |
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| Sorry people, I am with Jai on this one. Africans dont seem willing to help themselves, so I say let them suffer.
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savage om Villager

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Posted: Friday September 5th, 2003 21:13 |
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| JC- No, your reason for not wanting to support is completely different. Can you explain your statement?
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Mafdet Villager

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Posted: Friday September 5th, 2003 22:36 |
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@Jai
May your mother and father pray for you for such a statement you made and may your entire family pray for you if this is truely your wish for Africa.
@JC
I agree you need to be more specific.
@All
I wasn't going to post here but now I just want to say as an African Caribbean I can't help but feel sorry for the state Africa is in compared to what it once was when we as a race was at the top and others looked to us for educating them on everything from hygiene to science etc. I think it shows a disgusting low we as a people have become when we wish suffering and pain on our (as I term) brothers and sisters (saying they are cousins is only an attempt to push them futher away from our connection) around the world. Greed and profit has been mentioned here as the crucial factor why they should suffer, however selfishness ignorance and bitter hatred is so self destructive it can cloud and/or take away from basic simple intelligence.
How someone can highlight Africa for the part some took in the slave trade as a means for them to suffer is beyond me and I find it hard to digest why THE WEST has not been wished the same treatment for their role and their continuous acts of GREED AND PROFIT worldwide.
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Posted: Saturday September 6th, 2003 04:03 |
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@Jai
I'm thinking extreme here but if the crunch came tomorrow the chinese can go back to China, the indians to India, the Russians to Russia etc etc. Let's say the crunch did come tomorrow, where would you go......you may just find yourself having to 'sellout' like those African ancestors of yesteryear you despise. Scary isn't it, after all these years you're not that different from them afterall.
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Posted: Tuesday September 16th, 2003 01:39 |
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Has anyone paid any attention to the World Trade Organization talks in Cancuan.
I think what transpired yesterday was an historical event. It also will put a lie to some of the sentiments in this forum, where people are saying africans are not helping themselves.
I think if many of you bothered to read how international trade is conducted, and proping up of dysfunctioanl regimes, I dont think any of you would be making these arguments. I would think that living in the west with access to eductaion and knowledge some of you would know better!
Any way check out the news, I was pleased of Jamiaca as a man of Jamaican decent and pleased as well for the other caribean islands, and in particulr South Africa with allies from Brazil and India. There is now a serious economic block called the G21. I hope the new group will continue to support each other and not let Washington and Brussels divide and conquore.
The line in the sand has been drawn by the developing countries. What I found disturbing reading reports from various newspapers, was how the welalhy countries treated the negotiators of the poor countries with arrogance, direspect and blatent lie, then are shocked when the poor countries slapped them in thier face and walked out, screwing up the Rich countries timetable to screw the poor even further.
This forum called Why should I feel sorry for Africa! it should be why should I feel sorry for arogant, ignorant blacks in the dispora living in the west America and Europe, who sqaunder opportunities to gain intelectual and finacial capital and instaed, making themselves target for the prison system and having Babies with not family structor.
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Posted: Tuesday September 16th, 2003 06:41 |
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Concerned guest checkout http://theepn.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=2996052102&f=4656089202&m=6166079224&r=7926097724#7926097724
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Tina Guest
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Posted: Sunday September 21st, 2003 22:30 |
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| I came across this forum through the search engine, and i found this post by Jai who said that we africans should be left to suffer for the crime committed by our foefathers a very long time ago.I am a girl 23 years and i live in south african and believe me i don't think my people need your PITTY ,people like you make's the world a bad place to live in with their stupid remark .
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Kunjufu Villager

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Posted: Sunday September 21st, 2003 22:37 |
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| Tina: Can I just say that Jai's views is NOt the majority view nor is it the prevelant view of Africa..
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Ola Guest
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Posted: Sunday October 19th, 2003 17:08 |
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Heya, this question is directed mainly to 2nd/3rd generation Black Brits whose parents were born in Africa, but opinions are definately welcomed from all ages/backgrounds.
I'm a 23 year old of proud Nigerian parentage; I happily describe myself as Nigerian-British, but when I was younger, like back in primary school, I envied West Indians. Right now, I couldnt actually say why exactly, but back then it was OK to be black, but cooler to be a certain type of black. The word "African" was almost dirty, was sometimes said with scorn by both West Indians and African kids. Looking back now I probably attribute this to the 80s when the predominant image of Africans was malnourished Ethiopians draped in rags with flies swarming round their head. The other image of black people in the mainstream media was the Huxtable family from the Cosby Show, an image as far away from starving Africans as possible.
However, when I was 12 I went to live in Nigeria and came back to London when I was 16. I would say living there during those formative years defintly moulded me into the proud young woman I am today, and I wouldnt have my roots come from anywhere else. When I went to college I noticed that alot of young people of African parentage werent how we used to be back in primary school, ie, ashamed of our heritage. I thought that as we had grown up and gone to school with West Indian kids we'd grown to know and appreciate our similarities rather than our differences, unlike when our parents first came to this country.
However, while I was getting my hair done a couple of weeks ago, my hairdresser (who is half Ivorian, half Ghanian and lived in Cote d'Ivoire until she moved to England 10 years ago) was telling me how her seven year old daughter told her how other African kids in her class pretend they're West Indian. I was really dismayed coz I really thought we had grown out of that envy and self-hatred and didnt want to believe this has filtrated down to the next generation. And as for people my age? Me and my girls were going to the Nigerian Independence rave, though I was the only one who wore native clothes. They were all like "if I could change when I get there, then it'd be all good". I very nearly spoilt the evening by blowing my lid. What was the point in you going to Nigerian Independence if you cant wear your Nigerian clothes and be proud? Exactly what are you claiming to be independant from? If I could take public transport to my mate's house in Brixton in my beautiful attire, why have you got issues with taking a cab?
Its a damn shame that some of us Africans still have these issues to deal with, when on the other hand West Indians are not just proud of their heritage, but love ours too. When I was flat-sharing during uni, my Grenadian flatmate wanted me to teach her how to cook Jollof rice and she taught me how she did her curried goat. My sister is having a big Nigerian "o wambe" party for her 21st, and her Jamaican friends have no problem adhering to the dress code: FULL AFRICAN ATTIRE.
Sorry if I'm ranting on a bit, this has just really got my gut. Is it our parents' fault for not teaching us our respective languages? Or encouraging and instilling our beautiful cultures when we were younger? If Africans cant overcome ignorance, how do we expect other people to?
Peace,
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CashMoney Guest
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Posted: Sunday October 19th, 2003 20:30 |
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I have to agree with you. let me give you an example
I was chatting to a girl one time and she was telling me that she was walking with her friend and these guys passed them in the car and said 'NIGERIANS' and pulled up to talk to them. Now they made noise about being classed as Nigerians because according to her, if your clocked as a Nigerian it means your butters.The problem is, they were both NIGERIANS!!! They were probably used to hearing 'I thought you were West Indians' that dangeous phrase which I might add is used mostly by Africans, West indians never really say that phrase. This is probably th most divisive phrase amongst black people and needs to be eradicated
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~Gemini~ Villager
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Posted: Tuesday October 21st, 2003 06:01 |
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But yet Africans claim that we (Jamaicans other west indians too but particularly Jamaicans) have no culture! But yet there always imitating us.

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AQ Villager

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Posted: Tuesday October 21st, 2003 19:53 |
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Ola wrote:
Heya, this question is directed mainly to 2nd/3rd generation Black Brits whose parents were born in Africa, but opinions are definately welcomed from all ages/backgrounds.
I'm a 23 year old of proud Nigerian parentage; I happily describe myself as Nigerian-British, but when I was younger, like back in primary school, I envied West Indians. Right now, I couldnt actually say why exactly, but back then it was OK to be black, but cooler to be a certain type of black. The word "African" was almost dirty, was sometimes said with scorn by both West Indians and African kids. Looking back now I probably attribute this to the 80s when the predominant image of Africans was malnourished Ethiopians draped in rags with flies swarming round their head. The other image of black people in the mainstream media was the Huxtable family from the Cosby Show, an image as far away from starving Africans as possible.
However, when I was 12 I went to live in Nigeria and came back to London when I was 16. I would say living there during those formative years defintly moulded me into the proud young woman I am today, and I wouldnt have my roots come from anywhere else. When I went to college I noticed that alot of young people of African parentage werent how we used to be back in primary school, ie, ashamed of our heritage. I thought that as we had grown up and gone to school with West Indian kids we'd grown to know and appreciate our similarities rather than our differences, unlike when our parents first came to this country.
However, while I was getting my hair done a couple of weeks ago, my hairdresser (who is half Ivorian, half Ghanian and lived in Cote d'Ivoire until she moved to England 10 years ago) was telling me how her seven year old daughter told her how other African kids in her class pretend they're West Indian. I was really dismayed coz I really thought we had grown out of that envy and self-hatred and didnt want to believe this has filtrated down to the next generation. And as for people my age? Me and my girls were going to the Nigerian Independence rave, though I was the only one who wore native clothes. They were all like "if I could change when I get there, then it'd be all good". I very nearly spoilt the evening by blowing my lid. What was the point in you going to Nigerian Independence if you cant wear your Nigerian clothes and be proud? Exactly what are you claiming to be independant from? If I could take public transport to my mate's house in Brixton in my beautiful attire, why have you got issues with taking a cab?
Its a damn shame that some of us Africans still have these issues to deal with, when on the other hand West Indians are not just proud of their heritage, but love ours too. When I was flat-sharing during uni, my Grenadian flatmate wanted me to teach her how to cook Jollof rice and she taught me how she did her curried goat. My sister is having a big Nigerian "o wambe" party for her 21st, and her Jamaican friends have no problem adhering to the dress code: FULL AFRICAN ATTIRE.
Sorry if I'm ranting on a bit, this has just really got my gut. Is it our parents' fault for not teaching us our respective languages? Or encouraging and instilling our beautiful cultures when we were younger? If Africans cant overcome ignorance, how do we expect other people to?
Peace,
Hi Ola,
I'm sorry you've experienced this prevailing situation. I get sick and tired of both sides of the coins professing to be "ashamed" of being associated with their heritage, the media doesn't do us any favours either. I hear this story over and over again. I have a friend who says when he goes home to Nigeria that it's amazing the resemblance to people of west indian origin reside in places like Lagos et al and certain characteristics are prevalent amongst between us. I personally feel it should be mandatory that children of west indian/african origin should make at least one trip to africa in their lifetimes to at least "get" the idea that africans do not all reside in mud huts with a bowl of cassava for their days meal... . I haven't visited Africa yet, my Mother's been to Ghana and plans to return next year, I also have friends who have visited different parts of the continent and the stories are amazing. One friend who visited certain parts of Ghana and mixed with different people claimed that "We live like nothing, compared to the standards I've seen in Ghana". Of course there is poverty in parts of Africa, same here, there's crime and corruption within Government, Police Force and the community in Africa, same here!
Still, it hasn't stopped nearly 5,000 Jamaicans residing in Accra.
Last edited on Tuesday October 21st, 2003 19:54 by AQ
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Posted: Friday December 26th, 2003 00:01 |
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yea im a 21 yer old lady and of english/jamaican heritage. my question i why do african, whener nigerian, ghanan etc ec like 2 try say their parents are from jamaica...its PATHETIC.
i know big man that to this day will deny that there parents are not jamaican...why??? me personally will not have children with an african male, he has to be jamaican..u cancall me ignoranr or uneducated ..i dont care...the cultures are too different. my man needs to be of jamaican decent. Ive been out with african boys b4 and theres nothig wrong with that, in face the guy im seeing at the moment is african...but in the futurewhen my degree is finished and im looking to have pitney ...i beleieve it will have to be with a jamaican man......ALL THE HATERS ARE WELCOME TO REPLY !
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Posted: Friday December 26th, 2003 00:04 |
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| OK im 21 years old and at university....all the boys i meet are of african decent there are NO (hardly_ any jamaican man ANYWHERE. where da rass are they??????? its not about looks or whatever ca african boys are nice looking too but when we conversate i alsways find that they are not jamaican ...WHERE DA BLOODCLART AE THEY ALL???? its always either ghana or nigeria....wha gwaaan?????
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Posted: Friday December 26th, 2003 01:09 |
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What's up with 'ALL THE HATERS ARE WELCOME TO REPLY !'? lol. Anyway, so tell me something why do you believe you have to be with a Jamaican man to get married? I know you mentioned the cultures are different but couldn't you embrace his culture?? I mean, it's not like you wouldn't go out with an African because you already said you would. Why go out with an African guy if you wouldn't marry one?
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LUnchBoX Guest
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Posted: Friday December 26th, 2003 01:14 |
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| all bros is AFREEKAN
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miss-curvy Guest
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Posted: Friday December 26th, 2003 02:32 |
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| i wouldnt feel fulfilled if i married an african man. i dont want to repeat myself but the cultures are too different. marrying a jamaican man would mean wholeness and would mean our children would be enriched with the jamaican culture of both parents. i personally know many people who seem confused as to their identity. half jamaican and half african...but wouldnt feel no way to disregard there african side and claim that both their parents are jamaican...for me goin out with an african man nd marrying one , building a family etc are two different things....im not ignirant and prejudice to any extent, its nice to experience different thungs and ways of life...but there are limits and mine do not exceed that barrier.
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Cashew Nuts Guest
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Posted: Friday December 26th, 2003 20:13 |
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Girl I know how you feel!! Why is it that I always meet em too? I think that they are multiplying like Gizmo from Gremlins!!
Oh God I thought I was alone!!.. I say we get some Nice Jamaican brehs imported fresh from yard.
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angel5020 Guest
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Posted: Friday December 26th, 2003 21:22 |
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if you want to meet Jamaicans then go to Brixton in South London. No offence but im at university too and ive never known any one to attend university from a Jamaican Background. And im not saying this because im an African female but it is true. very true indeed
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Sassylady Guest
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Posted: Friday December 26th, 2003 22:50 |
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| lol Natatlie!!!! But come to think of it, when I was going uni I didn't see any Jamaican guys...hmmm, guess you got a point...but I never rarely had a problem meeting any.
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Pinkz Guest
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Posted: Friday December 26th, 2003 23:56 |
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Hi! If you want a real yardie, you aint gonna find 1 at uni!! Dont make me laugh.. real yardies aint interested in dat, they are here to make quick money love!! Trust me, I know.. I have dated a lot of them!!
You should come to Birmingham, there is a yard man, for every gyal!!
You say you want a real yard man - but can you deal with them, esp. being at uni!! They have differenmt agendas, they will love the fact that you are studying, it means you aint gonna have time to run about like them, and they can keep you on a lock down!!
But they are bum though.. and the SEX!!
           
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Rammie Guest
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Posted: Saturday December 27th, 2003 06:54 |
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| So there we have it...university material girls presumably "well brought up & studious" yearning to mate with Jamaican yardies, the very scregs of Jamiacan and Caribbean manhood. its no wonder the Black race is fcked up. Next time a black woman whinge to me that she cant find a good man I'll just say thats because you spent your youth spreading your legs for the very scubs of society. Goddamn.
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PAK MAN Guest
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Posted: Saturday December 27th, 2003 06:57 |
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sup.
well most jamaicans dont really attend further education....most are drug dealers,robbers of some sort, wannabe rappers/mc's or are in jail awaiting deportation the others are quickly dying out becuase they wanna be cowboys and shoot up the place...dont have me down as some racist cus im not..im just typing my mind and opinion there are others who were brought up in this country who are in further education and are doing well while others have moved on to set up thier own buisness's.....if you want a real '' yardie'' and you hold a british passport try going back to the west indies im sure you'll be flooded with offers once you flash that little redish book about the place...anyway whus wrong with the other black brothers beggars cant be choosers.
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BlackBeauty Guest
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Posted: Saturday December 27th, 2003 07:37 |
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Is ur african bf aware of how u feel about marriage with an african and about them denying their true parents identity?
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truth Guest
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Posted: Saturday December 27th, 2003 08:45 |
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| another foolish post to antagonise and instigate LOL.
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crap detector Guest
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