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efenjee
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 12:28 |
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MilkChoc: You are entitled to feel what you like about the statement I made. I am also entitled to feel as I feel about sleeping with a white man or having a mixed race child. What I wrote was the truth about how I feel, I cannot see myself ever going with a white man and I cannot see myself ever having a mixed race child. If some people are offended by that then what can I do? Pretend not to feel like that??
Question for you Milkchoc: as a full black Jamaican, how do you feel about marrying a white man? Could you see yourself doing it? Would you not prefer your children to share the same racial background as yourself?
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huskagee
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 12:52 |
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efenjee wrote: MilkChoc: You are entitled to feel what you like about the statement I made. I am also entitled to feel as I feel about sleeping with a white man or having a mixed race child. What I wrote was the truth about how I feel, I cannot see myself ever going with a white man and I cannot see myself ever having a mixed race child. If some people are offended by that then what can I do? Pretend not to feel like that??
Question for you Milkchoc: as a full black Jamaican, how do you feel about marrying a white man? Could you see yourself doing it? Would you not prefer your children to share the same racial background as yourself?
I'm feeling you girl....stop it sooooofresh don't even start it....yes, i do have a white girlfriend but i cannot really see myself having a mixed race child...it's weird ...i know but i just love all-black kids....we have the most beautiful children in the world...and my kid could turn out to be as light as the boy on top..and that would kill me...for real
i can't get the story of mariah carey's childhood out of my head where she said that back then when her school friends came to her house, they were shocked her having a black father...wtf!
my mixed race friends are even "worse" - they don't want to have a baby with a white woman, just to "save" the brown complexion...they have major issues about a kid turning out lighter
and talking to the white moms of some of my mixed race friends, they all had many incidents when people assumed that they actually adopted their own child...so efenjee your feelings are just natural
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efenjee
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 13:00 |
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| Thanks for the support Huskagee, I do wonder why you are with a white girl if you would not want a mixed race child? If she accidentally gets pregnant what will you do? Tell her to abort? Or raise a child you are embarrassed to have fathered? I would pity the mixed race child born to a black person who is not 100% comfortable with the idea of bringing forth a child like them. I sometimes get the feeling that black women who dabble with white dick, get pregnant and then return to black men and have other full black kids, actually feel a sense of shame about the mixed child they had, even though they may love the child with all their heart - how would that affect the poor child?
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urbanorder
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 13:26 |
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| @huskagee are u now living in the UK
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 13:45 |
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huskagee wrote:
I'm feeling you girl....stop it sooooofresh don't even start it....yes, i do have a white girlfriend
==================================================
hmmmmm
shall i start........................
my Paris boy.................
nah
its only when you say *black women are gold diggers*
but regardless......................atleast it is good that you are willing to have full black kids to strengthen their African hertiage.................
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_brown_eyes_
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 13:54 |
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for flip sake
its a baby an its cute...who cares what colour it is, its a black baby and thats that
how wud u like it if people questioned ur babies race..get over it....an he has gorgeous eyes
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:00 |
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| I am sorry....................shot me down for being honest............but i don't find the baby cute......................and i don't see why i have to follow populist politically correct opnions...................that baby aint cute...................ewok.
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_brown_eyes_
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:05 |
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| when u a black person, you cant help how light u are nor how dark u are, it comes in the family jeans, jus leave the pickney alone....id love to see what ur baby garn look like
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huskagee
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:17 |
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urbanchaos wrote: @huskagee are u now living in the UK
No currently i live in Berlin, Germany...I am in the last month of a one year trainee program with the UN and i hope that i will get the chance to move on to the headquarter in NY...but no news yet....
I was born and reside in Paris but if i don't get the job in NY, i will move to London next year...
@efenjee
i met my girl when i was starting with uni so we all know it wasn't supposed to last that long...we were kids and having kids was so far away...but now i am getting older and start to think about other aspects of life and i realized that i have certain issues...
don't get it wrong of course i'd love my kid no matter the colour but i am still in a position and situation in life where i can decide for myself whether i really want to be with a white woman, share the rest of my life and have kids with a non-black person or live a relationship the way i was brought up in a typical black family...i find myself in a situation in life where you have to make decisions with a larger impact..
of course i would raise my mixed race children like black kids, teach them black history and i know they would see the world ONLY through black eyes BUT isn't it actually wrong? they are half-white...these thoughts and words come from my head but my heart speaks a whole different language...i just love her...so i will love our kids
Last edited on Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:29 by huskagee
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milkchoc
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:22 |
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efenjee wrote: MilkChoc: You are entitled to feel what you like about the statement I made. I am also entitled to feel as I feel about sleeping with a white man or having a mixed race child. What I wrote was the truth about how I feel, I cannot see myself ever going with a white man and I cannot see myself ever having a mixed race child. If some people are offended by that then what can I do? Pretend not to feel like that??
Question for you Milkchoc: as a full black Jamaican, how do you feel about marrying a white man? Could you see yourself doing it? Would you not prefer your children to share the same racial background as yourself?
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to efanjee, I personally want to have children with a black man, (Morris chestnut to be honest with you – off topic I know, but a girl can dream!!) but I thought what you said would offend my friends of mixed heritage “BRINGING FORTH HALF WHITE OFFSPRING� seems quite harsh to me (maybe I am over sensitive), it, in my opinion, cheapens their existence in the eyes of some black people, none of us ask to be born do we? That’s the only reason I said something, question for you – “do you have cousins, nephews, nieces etc of mixed heritage? And would you say that to their faces?Last edited on Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:26 by milkchoc
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milkchoc
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:25 |
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Last edited on Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:27 by milkchoc
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efenjee
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:45 |
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milkchoc wrote: efenjee wrote: MilkChoc: You are entitled to feel what you like about the statement I made. I am also entitled to feel as I feel about sleeping with a white man or having a mixed race child. What I wrote was the truth about how I feel, I cannot see myself ever going with a white man and I cannot see myself ever having a mixed race child. If some people are offended by that then what can I do? Pretend not to feel like that??
Question for you Milkchoc: as a full black Jamaican, how do you feel about marrying a white man? Could you see yourself doing it? Would you not prefer your children to share the same racial background as yourself?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
to efanjee, I personally want to have children with a black man, (Morris chestnut to be honest with you – off topic I know, but a girl can dream!!) but I thought what you said would offend my friends of mixed heritage “BRINGING FORTH HALF WHITE OFFSPRING� seems quite harsh to me (maybe I am over sensitive), it, in my opinion, cheapens their existence in the eyes of some black people, none of us ask to be born do we? That’s the only reason I said something, question for you – “do you have cousins, nephews, nieces etc of mixed heritage? And would you say that to their faces?
Whether I word it like that: BRINGING FORTH HALF WHITE OFFSPRING, or I word it prettier like this, I WOULD PREFER FULL BLACK KIDS, I DO NOT WANT TO PROCREATE WITH A WHITE MAN. It all means the same thing. Everyone in my family and my friends know that I do not want to get with a white man and would not want to have half white offspring so I would not need to worry about people I know knowing how I feel about this. I do not have mixed race children close to me in my family but I am not attacking the children that come from Black/White unions because I know it is not their fault but I don't see how me saying I do not want to bring such children into the world cheapens their existance. If a white man says that all black babies should be smothered at birth and says that he does not want any black babies in his family that does not cheapen my existance. I could take all the offence I want to take, the fact is there are plenty of people who prefer to stick to their own and do not see it as something that should be kept a secret. I am one of those people.
I understand that some may be hurt that I feel like this about the IR issue, but as I said, that is how I feel and I do not think I am wrong to feel like that. Last edited on Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 14:45 by
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milkchoc
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 15:42 |
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efenjee wrote: If a white man says that all black babies should be smothered at birth and says that he does not want any black babies in his family that does not cheapen my existance.
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well we have to agree to differ, because I think that cheapens my existence in the eyes of none blacks and I don't like it, and will always take offence to comments like this. Surely that was the mindset of the nianderthols (sp?) who killed Anthony in Liverpool. Oh well I guess we all have different levels of tolerance. Hope you don't think I was picking an argument, it was just an observation really.
milkchoc out
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efenjee
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 16:01 |
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milkchoc wrote: efenjee wrote: If a white man says that all black babies should be smothered at birth and says that he does not want any black babies in his family that does not cheapen my existance.
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well we have to agree to differ, because I think that cheapens my existence in the eyes of none blacks and I don't like it, and will always take offence to comments like this. Surely that was the mindset of the nianderthols (sp?) who killed Anthony in Liverpool. Oh well I guess we all have different levels of tolerance. Hope you don't think I was picking an argument, it was just an observation really.
milkchoc out
Milkchoc, maybe I haven't expressed myself clearly enough. I am not saying that there is nothing that offends me, or that I am more tolerant than anyone else, what I am saying is that the way people FEEL is the way they FEEL. By the way can you explain to me what exactly you mean by cheapening your existence? How can me not wanting a mixed race child cheapen the existence of them? How can a white man not wanting me to marry his son cheapen my existence? Of course I can be offended that the man has these views about black people but does the fact that he has those views make me less of a person or less worthy of life? I think not.
The mindset of those people who killed the boy in Liverpool are not like mine at all, if that is what you are suggesting. I do not want to give birth to a mixed race child but I am not going around burying axes in their heads nor do I feel I would want to do them any harm. I just don't want to give birth to one. Would you be offended if a blonde haired blue eyed woman expressed a desire to have a blonde blue eyed baby girl? Would you think that cheapened the existence of children who were not blonde with blue eyes? What if a white woman said she did not want a mixed race child and would prefer a child that had two white parents like herself? Would you be as offended as you are about the comment I made? I am not arguing with you either, just interested in what exactly is offensive about expressing a wish to have a child that looks like me.
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SHILOHDREAM
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 19:57 |
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 @blaq woman
You know, that's a good question. I really don't know. I happen to hate that video and only glanced it once. I'll have to check it out again. But he is fiiiine. I think they showed them in one of the Jet Magazines.
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 20:02 |
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 Thank you @ Tru African
for the photo of Solange and her husband daniel.
@ blaq Woman
check out the photo of Solanges husband that Tru African sent over!
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menzzingos
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Posted: Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 21:40 |
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Last edited on Wednesday August 3rd, 2005 21:45 by menzzingos
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 00:07 |
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efenjee wrote: 'I know it is not their fault'
By this your implying that someone is to 'blame' for having a mixed raced child.
Bwoy do u need to open your mind..!
The fact you even felt the need to say that kinda proves you have prejudice against mixed raced people because that babys 1/4 cast or wotever, more black than anything else. If you had a child 100% black and it came out with that complexion and colour eyes/hair etc ( cuz i know black kids who look mixed raced because of thier complexion ) would your feel ashamed incase people mistook it for a mixed raced baby... well lets pray your baby is BLACK and god help if its eyes aint brown enough... 
That little muchkin is sooooo adorable, and i can see a reseblance to solagne. He'll proberbly get darker as he grows up anyway
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 01:13 |
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| The baby is not cute standard, Im not saying hes ugly because hes blatantly not but I dont see no cuteness.
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efenjee
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 09:45 |
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mi$$ wrote: efenjee wrote: 'I know it is not their fault'
By this your implying that someone is to 'blame' for having a mixed raced child.
Bwoy do u need to open your mind..!
The fact you even felt the need to say that kinda proves you have prejudice against mixed raced people because that babys 1/4 cast or wotever, more black than anything else. If you had a child 100% black and it came out with that complexion and colour eyes/hair etc ( cuz i know black kids who look mixed raced because of thier complexion ) would your feel ashamed incase people mistook it for a mixed raced baby... well lets pray your baby is BLACK and god help if its eyes aint brown enough...
Actually mi$$, it was milkchoc who said that none of us asked to be born and that is why I said I know it is not the baby's fault that they exist. I was not implying that anyone is to blame but now that you mention it the people to 'blame' for the existence of mixed race children are their parents. I think you need to open a book never mind your mind if you did not know that! The fact is I do not feel any malice whatsoever to children who are mixed race or adults who are mixed race. All I have said is that I would like my children to look full black. I look full black and I want my kids to look full black. If I had a child who came out looking like Solange's baby I would probably feel self-conscious walking street with it because I know people would think I had slept with a white man. I know I could end up with a kid much lighter than me and if I did I'm sure I wouldn't love the kid any less. If I slept with a white man (which I wouldn't for a variety of reasons) I would be ashamed of myself and I would not want any reminder of the shame, in the form of a mixed race baby hanging around. I'm sure I'm not the only black girl who feels this way so I don't why people are going on like what I have said is so shocking.
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 14:13 |
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Ok let's use our brains and study this properly...
Grand father: Matthew Knowles: (Mixed negroid)
comparing Matthew knowles to the average west african. you can see Matthew Knowles himself isnt a true negroe. Even compared to the average west indian in the uk, Matthew knowles is less negroid. most people are not too familar with black-non-white mixes, such as black-east indian, black-american indian, black-oriental. but i am, and i can say Matthew Knowles looks like a 'Black Indian', a bit more on the negroe side, but clearly mixed with Natives. We'll put him at 70% Black, 30% Indian/White
Grand mother: Tina Knowles: (Mixed caucasoid)
.jpg)
comparing Tina Knowles to the average french woman. we can see Tina is not pure european. she has also has visible north american indian ancestry, aswell as negroe. an estimate for her would be around 70% caucasoid, remainder negroid & americanoid (more negroid than americanoid here, say 20% negroid, 10% americanoid).
So logically when you add up both Solange's & Beyonce's grandparents we get:
45% Black + 40% White + 15% Indian (basically something similar to the average mixed race afro-european in the uk. but with a Native indian side-pimpage. and ofcourse a more stabilised multigenerational mix)...
 
as you can see they look very much like british mixed race girls. i.e. they wouldn't look out of place next to ms dynamite, alesha dixon, javine, samantha mumba, lisa maffia, thandie newton etc. no question about it. genetically & phenotypically, beyonce and solange, are mulattoid for the most part (80%+ mulattoid, 20% amerindian/other). socially & culturally however, they're both "fully black", they just aint maxxxed out.
^^ and here Two mulattoids. if Daniel is a 1st generation mulattoid, then he isnt very stabilised, and looking at solange's parents, although i say it's multi generational, her ancestry isnt as stabilised as say the average domincian or brazilian, where they have 'brown' going back generations. Matthew & Tina look almost interracial, as is the case for many LA creole-black mixes when they set food outside of Louisiana, people mistaken them for being black-white mixes. hell compared to a Black-East indian couple, Matthew & Tina Knowles are more interracial looking than that  (btw, <== that smiley is so gay).
Now you ask what's all the fuss about unstabilised mixed people procreating? well it's that two perfect mulattoes (e.g. half west african, half european) have the genes to theoretically produce offspring that range from full, 100% caucasoid to full, 100% negroid. although this is based on probability, the results form a bell-curve, with the most likely case being more mulattoids (50% caucasoid-50% negroid) being produced, then quadroonoids (75% caucasoid-25% negroid), & samboids (25% negroid-75% caucasoid),and then 1/8th black & 7/8th blacks and so on...
So this, daniel jr. looks a bit more base than a quarterback (1/4 black), but not quite mulattoid. i'd estimate between 30%-40% negroid. although as we say in our anthro circles, you can't properly racially judge people that are pre-teen, and those that are beyond 60. pre-teen's features are too paedomorphic, and elderly people have decayed facial features.
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wolly
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 14:33 |
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efenjee wrote: afroamericangirl wrote: FYI:
Most the Black babies I see, if they are not really dark skinned (and unmixed) START OUT with very soft/fine hair.
I wasn't aware that really dark skinned black babies do not start out with soft, fine hair. I think all black babies do and the coarseness of their hair has nothing to do with their skin tone. My cousin has a baby that is white like chalk - but he's full black and his hair at less than six months old is definitely negro hair.
BTW I think Solange's baby is gorgeous with a cute, chubby, sweet little face...but I would prefer my own child to come out darker so there would be no question in anyone's mind that he might be a white man's child. I have walked street with my friend's mixed race baby before, and felt very uncomfortable about the fact that people might assume the child was mine. I felt like wearing a big sign round my neck stating boldly: THIS CHILD IS NOT MY CHILD. I WOULD NEVER WILLINGLY SLEEP WITH A WHITE MAN AND WOULD DIE BEFORE BRINGING FORTH HALF WHITE OFFSPRING. lol
wow, that's interesting. your cousin's baby is white like chalk, but he's full black. the question is though, is he fully negroid? or is he more caucasoid than the average british mulatto? you're right about one thing you can be really dark and have non-nappy hair, where i live we have LOTS of people that fit the bill, we call them tamils & gujaratis. i'm actually quite dark for a mulatto, and i got good hair, you'd love to run your fingers thru my hair.
efenjee, i feel you, i wouldn't like to have children that are too light, im a pretty dark mulatto, i'd much rather have children with an indian, mixed race, or black woman than a white woman, simply because i dont like that really light skin look which fringes on melanin-deficient. so can you tell me, are you west african, or west indian? tell me a black woman that looks like you. i'll tell you whether i think you're capable of procreating with a white man, and able to produce some lovely brown babies. or whether you're better off with an ethnic man. btw did u know trisha goddard is half dominican ('prieta' or 'india' lol mother) half english (white father)
as non-whites in an uber-white island, it's our duty to increase our numbers. the best ways to do this is by having more children than whites, and by procreating with whites producing non-white 'mixed race' offspring. the latter i only recommend, if the non-white minority is very ethnic. e.g. african, west indian, southern indian.
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SHILOHDREAM
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 15:26 |
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 the baby is just that " a baby" with ordinary "Baby features".
Gahdamn, I have never in all my life seen so much racism. This light and dark issue in this modern times has got to stop. Damn, are we so insecure about our blackness we've got to pick on light complected babies when half the kids in our family come in different colors, as most people do. Its just showing up that some people are very insecure about their blackness and jealous of light complected people.
@Wolly-I congratulate what you said, but understand you will receive a lot of hate mail for sounding so intelligent. Especially certain cultures that don't understand as Americans the majority of us are mixed blacks anyway.  I applaud you Wolly
Last edited on Thursday August 4th, 2005 15:48 by SHILOHDREAM
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 15:33 |
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@wolly
Thank God someone has common sense and enough intelligence to analyze this. I agree with you one hundred percent. Noone is denying their blackness but it is obviously black people have been mixed with other races for a long time and I see no harm in accepting All of your geneology as well as embracing your blackness. Tina does look like she has parisian (french) descent and its obvious their mixed blood carried onto their grandchild. Nothing wrong with that.
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SHILOHDREAM
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 15:36 |
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Last edited on Thursday August 4th, 2005 15:44 by SHILOHDREAM
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efenjee
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 15:49 |
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@ShilohDream: You seem to appear on every topic where skin tone is mentioned. This is obviously an issue that is very important to you, please could you tell me in your honest opinion - do you think that having light skin is something that other people would automatically be jealous of? It seems from your comments here and elsewhere that you do and if I'm right then you obviously believe that having light skin is better than having darker skin and something which would naturally inspire jealousy. If that's the case then I think you have the issues about skin tone that you so frequently accuse others of. Why should anyone be jealous of someone just because they have light skin? Does having light skin make you prettier, cleverer, richer? I think people like you that are forever accusing others of being jealous of someone's skin tone are projecting your own beliefs onto others. Because you think light skin is better you think everyone else thinks like you. Because light skin is something enviable to you, you think it is enviable to everyone else. It's about time you realised that you are wrong.
@ ALL: I have stated here that I think Solange's baby is adorable, in my eyes he is cute and I'm sure his parents are very proud of him. They are a mixed race family and the baby does not look out of place in their mixed up family, in fact he looks like very much like them. However, I have no wish to have a child who looks half white, I do not look half white and I do not want my offspring to look half white. It seems for some people it's not enough that I have said the baby is cute, I need to also say that I would love to have a baby that looks like that. I am a full black person and in time I want to pro-create with another full black person to have a full black baby. Okay?? It may come as a surprise to some of you but there are plenty of black people who want to have black kids.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 15:55 |
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| efenjee: good post..and a brilliant observation on miss shilodream....i await her response..
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afroamericangirl
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 16:35 |
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efenjee wrote:
@ ALL: I have stated here that I think Solange's baby is adorable, in my eyes he is cute and I'm sure his parents are very proud of him. They are a mixed race family and the baby does not look out of place in their mixed up family, in fact he looks like very much like them. However, I have no wish to have a child who looks half white, I do not look half white and I do not want my offspring to look half white. It seems for some people it's not enough that I have said the baby is cute, I need to also say that I would love to have a baby that looks like that. I am a full black person and in time I want to pro-create with another full black person to have a full black baby. Okay?? It may come as a surprise to some of you but there are plenty of black people who want to have black kids.
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This is NOT the problem.
The problem seems to lie that one minute everyone on here claims Black people are this beautiful people that come in all shades and the next minute people like Efenjee claim that they doesn't accept "mixed raced" people as "Black". Where in the hell do the Pan-Africanist think the light skinned Blacks come from? the moon?
I got into a very lengthy discussion with a Nigerian woman named Think! a couple months ago about this very issue. She wanted to claim that there where TONS of naturally light skinned African women (with no admixture) that looked like Beyonce and even lighter. Yet Halle Berry, Thandie Newton, and the Nigerian/Jewish actress in Hotel Rowanda were all "mixed" brown skinned women.......................
What kind of reasonable logic is it behind parading blue eyed Vanessa williams or blond haired beyonce around as "Black women" and then claim you are INSULTED to have Thandie newton (a woman that lookes more negriod than both of these women put together) considered "Black " when she is "mixed".
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I do wonder if Efenjee is prepared to start kicking Blacks who she finds out have foreign admixture out of the Black race or CEASE considering them "Blacks"???? It seems everyone wants to SOUND pro-African and Pro-Black yet they don't follow things all the way though. Foriegn admixture seems to be quite acceptable even amongst so call Pan-Africanist as long as the person does not have a "white mother" (such as halle berry does) that people know about.
Last edited on Thursday August 4th, 2005 16:40 by afroamericangirl
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efenjee
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 16:51 |
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@ AfroAmericanGirl:
In my view (I speak for myself, not all Blacknet villagers or all Pan-Africans) someone who is half white and half black is just that, not black or white - but half of each. In the United Kingdom, someone who is half black and half white is not classed as black and nor do they usually call themselves black. The people you named - Halle Berry, Thandie Newton, Sopie O (from Hotel Rwanda) would have been called half-caste in the UK a few years back. That term is now politically incorrect so we called them 'mixed race'.
I understand that things in USA are different and that is why you probably feel the way you do, in USA you have much more mixing so you get people who are classed as black simply because it's easier due to the fact they are so mixed up. In South Africa you have the same situation with the 'coloureds', they are so mixed up that they have to call themselves 'coloured' to distinguish themselves from the 'black' people of South Africa when those same people calling themselves 'coloured' in SA would be 'black' in the USA. You seem to think that anyone with any amount of black blood in them is a black person. I disagree.
I still don't understand why people are angry that I would want a child who is a reflection of me. Again I must ask the question, would I be getting all this animosity if I was a white blonde haired blue eyed woman hoping I had a blonde blue eyed baby girl???
Last edited on Thursday August 4th, 2005 16:54 by
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afroamericangirl
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Posted: Thursday August 4th, 2005 17:14 |
